Having made a pact with my little staffy Reeve who's almost 10 months old(basically he's on his last warning, he's cost me a fortune in the past 8 months and its really knocked my confidence!) anyway i went out yesterday, bought him a brand new bed, toys and bones and started our new routine (quite complicated fitting it around DS's routine too, hes 20 months.)

Right, i've decided we all need more exercise so Reeve will be getting two long walks a day (three when DS is at his daddy's.) He's a lazy dog and hates bad weather so when it rains its going to be fun but my problem is, when it comes to the night walk in particular, Reeve pulls me and the buggy along (fine if we're going up hill and need the help :hihi:) obviously at the moment he's not that big so its not too much of a problem but i need to nip it in the bud before it gets worse, has anyone got any tips? At the moment i use the sit down technique with OH's staffy and its worked a treat, she doesn't pull with me at all anymore but Reeve is so stubborn (bit dumb too, bless him) when you tell him to sit 9 times out of 10 he just looks at you, when he does sit on first command he gets a treat but its not working, he still pulls, towards the end he tires so he stops pulling and he gets a treat then but i don't think i'm doing it right :confused: Plus i can't use the bottle technique because both hands are used, one with the lead, other with the buggy or DS's hand.

My other problem is i want to road train him so he sits before crossing the road, again i've done it with OH's dog, i still have to tell her to sit but she does it first time, Reeve just will not sit, i end up pushing his bum down and sternly saying sit, but he just looks at me like i'm dumb lol!! Has anyone got any tips there?

So far the pacts working and we're getting on better than we have been in a long long time, i'm hoping it stays this way because he is a great dog when he behaves!!

Thanks in advance.

Its a staffy as I have found out personally they are more intelligent than expected but also bloody stubborn and tend to do what they want. They can be trained but it takes them a long time but once they get the hang of something they are really good at it. All I can say is keep at it and dont give up think of it as a battle of wills lol.

He sounds exactly like Gadget! (who's 5yrs old now, so get used to it! ;) )
He pulls all the time and is completely oblivious to any training techniques I use. He always 'sits' perfectly at home but won't sit whilst out on a walk :rolleyes: I think he doesn't want to get his bum dirty! :lol:
The porblem is he's so excited about going out on a walk that treats aren't tempting enough to get him to do anything.
Its a bit of a cop-out but I've found using a 'Canny Collar' works wonders (thanks Lotti :thumbsup: ) cos he can't physically pull anymore.

Thanks for the advice so far! Why is it staffy's are so vain :hihi: as soon as Reeve gets a little spot of rain on him, u'd think he was drenched, if he could get on top of the radiator he would :loopy: He loves his walks and to be honest i do too, its raining here now though, so i'll have to bribe him to go more than to the end of the street later!!

Gadget won't go out in the garden for a wee if it's raining... but is more than happy to go for a walk in the rain... :huh:
And he will jump over a puddle so as not to get his paws dirty... but if there's a river/pond/lake he will jump straight in & swim around :huh: :loopy:

The stupidest is when he's been running around on a muddy field for ages and is totally filthy... then still goes out of his way to aviod puddles on the way home :rolleyes: I'm like "but that would actually make you cleaner you idiot!"

Well my staffy cross Gsd is not only not keen on the rain but scared of the dark and will only go out if I put the security light on for her :loopy:

Well my staffy cross Gsd is not only not keen on the rain but scared of the dark and will only go out if I put the security light on for her :loopy:
Haha yes it's obviously true what they say about Staffies & GSD's being vicious and scarey isn't it?! :hihi:

What kind of collar/harness do you use, tinkabel? I bought the Walkezee harness a few weeks ago on Lotti's recommendation. I think it would be very good on a dog that pulls, but I'm not entirely sure whether it's best for my own dog as she lunges, rather than pulls. And when she isn't lunging (at another dog, a passerby or a postman!), she walks very nicely indeed and many people have commented on how good she is!

My only problem with it is that the front can ride up a bit on her chest if she lunges. Lunging is a very sharp, strong movement and causes the front strap to ride up and tighten on the soft part of her chest/throat before she has chance to think again (not that thinking is ever on her agenda at this point!). Sometimes she's given little coughs for a good 10 minutes afterwards.

However, if she merely pulls a bit in front of me in her eagerness to get on with her walk, she does fall back to my side as the front strap tightens. So I'd say that it would be very effective on a dog that merely pulls.

I've used a halti head harness for the past 6 years. You might find they don't fit as well on a staffie. Again, it greatly increases your control, but I've yet to meet a dog who doesn't try and get them off! Mine used to walk on her forehead if we were on grass and then throw herself down like a spoilt child, kick her legs about and then refuse to move.

The only reason I've stopped using a halti is again because of the aggression problem. When you've had 6 years of a dog teaching you that a jerk on the lead means "attack!", you find bursts of adrenaline shooting though you when your dog just throws her head down to sniff an interesting smell. And that doesn't help either of you!

So I've decided not to attach myself to her her head!

I've now bought a halti HARNESS. I think I'll probably end up using this and the walkezee harness and just choose the best one for the walk I'm intending to do. I have high hopes for this harness. You attach the lead to the front of the dog's chest, rather than their back. Thus getting the same "turning" effect of the head collars (you may not be able to benefit from this fully if you have a pushchair, though), but leaving the dog free to whip its head round to anything interesting, and it also doesn't interfere with any calming signals which the dog may wish to deploy as an alternative to going on the offensive and making their owner want to die... or get a goldfish!!

Having said all that, the knack of getting a dog to walk nicely on the lead is very simple. All you have to do is make the pulling non-rewarding. i.e, if they pull, they don't go forward, if they let the lead go loose, they do. :hihi:

Good luck! Turid Rugaas: My Dog Pulls. What do i do? is a good little book. It's more of a booklet, really, but that means it won't take you long to read and start putting it into practice.

You're not alone. This came up as the most common problem dog owners have, which is why Turid Rugaas wrote the book!

Also, Lotti has given Scoop very good advice on this. It's linked to from the training sticky. To really crack it, i think you're going to have to do a fair bit of training without the buggy, though..... which is probably going to be the hardest thing to manage.

Hmm.... this could be a long post - so be prepared.

I suggest that if he's being so stubborn it'd be a good idea to use a head collar such as a canny collar - www.cannycollar.co.uk which only applies the same pressure on him, that he applies on you, but on a more sensitive part of his body - his nose - so he physically can't pull but it doesn't hurt and is entirely humane. If you go for this, you will have to introduce him to it gradually as stubborn dogs often get a face on when you try putting one on them but they do work.

Getting him to sit, I know it can be tedious, but don't be tempted to push his bottom down. He's not learning anything for himself if you do. It's tedious and he'll be stubborn but if he realises that you point blank refuse to go until he has done as you asked, he will do it, but be prepared for a wait. As a dalmatian owner and handler, I can sympathise with those who have to have a battle of the wills everyday with their dogs :rolleyes:

Do you teach hand signals, if you don't, I think you'd really benefit. Staffies are intelligent dogs with a short attention span. Hand signals - when you have your hands free - are great to teach intelligent dogs as they tend to watch rather than listen.
If you want to be able to communicate without your hands being free, perhaps try a nod for sit, so that you can tell the dog to sit without using your hands.

Do you use a clicker - this will really help with training a dog such as a staffy. They do so many things at one time that they don't always know what they're getting right and that's why behaviour is never perfected. By clicking at the appropriate time, the dog knows exactly what he's done right and dogs such as staffies who are very clever will do anything to make you click so as soon as they see the clicker, they'll do as you ask.

You need to ask yourself what your dog responds to. It's all very well offering him treats for good behaviour but if he's not a food motivated dog and would prefer lots of praise or a game, then treats won't work.

Remember, he's still a pup, he's at his toddler stage and has a long way to go before he's anywhere near perfect but with enough perseverence and consistency, he will get there.

To really crack it, i think you're going to have to do a fair bit of training without the buggy, though..... which is probably going to be the hardest thing to manage.

Yep, my thoughts too - not easy when you have time constraints, also, once you get to a stage where he's not too bad without the buggy, then try incorporating a baby-less buggy so that the dog can learn alongside the buggy but without risking any harm to the baby should he pull awkwardly.

As far as the bottle shaking goes, there are other ways of getting round this, all the bottle is, is noise aversion - you can do this using different methods. You can get an attachment called a 'jingler' to attach to the lead which makes a jingling noise when the dog pulls and distracts him from pulling, or, failing that, there is an ultrasonic one that clips between the lead and collar and when the dog pulls, it senses this and sets off a loud, uncomfortable ultrasonic noise. Obviously only the dog can hear it, and it has been known to work, although I once tried ultrasonic training to stop Takara jumping up at the side and she didn't care after she'd got used to the sound, so it's a matter of trial and error.

Also Elsa - Takara lunges but the walkezee just took that edge off the lunge for me, it did rise up a little but then she pulls a lot too so it probably was more suited to me, than you :)

Yes, get a clicker. You need 4 hands at first, but it gets easier! Dogs learn behaviours VERY quickly with a clicker. I've been using one for the past 8 months or so and can now occasionally be seen with a very well-behaved dog...

Honest!

Also, I meant to add in my previous post that you must try very hard to only give a command once. otherwise, they don't know whether to sit when you say "Sit" or when you say, "Sit, sit" or "Sit, sit, SIT YOU ****!!!"

if he sits well at other times, then he is probably just too into his walk to bother, rather than being unsure of the command! Then you need to go back to the "until you sit, we're not going anywhere" technique.

Lotti - I think the other reason the walkezee is better for Takara is that she's bigger. Gypsy is a collie cross. She's quite small, possible has some staffie in her, so has a smaller chest (although a barrel of a ribcage, so had to get the medium harness!). I was amazed how well it checked her when she wasn't in attack-mode, though.

Lotti - I think the other reason the walkezee is better for Takara is that she's bigger. Gypsy is a collie cross. She's quite small, possible has some staffie in her, so has a smaller chest (although a barrel of a ribcage, so had to get the medium harness!). I was amazed how well it checked her when she wasn't in attack-mode, though.

ah - that may explain it.

Oh yeah - forgot, I agree with Elsa, if you say the command more than once, the dog will learn to do it when he feels like it.

With a clicker, you can start by clicking when he does it, then don't click if it takes too long, and gradually get him doing it quicker and quicker.

oh the joys of staffy owners

Allthough I have a 5 month old staffy cross Gsd she is fairly well behaved she sits gives paw comes on call. But what I really want to do is be able to walk her off her off the lead when we go to open areas any ideas people. Oh and she is friendly with other dogs.

If she comes when called and is friendly, why can't you allow her offlead :confused:

Because not sure if shed come back if she saw a cat/dog/random Joe Bloggs

First, I'd advise buying a lunge rope, rather than an extendable lead - the lung ropes are just that bit bouncier for when your dog gets to the end of the lead... Only problem is, you have to cope with rolling it all up as she comes back to you.

I use an ox horn dual ended whistle, one is a very high pitched, shrill sound and the other end is like a referee's whistle. I use the first high pitched end to call the dogs back when they're in the middle of running after something. It penetrates that deafness that they get when 'busy'... I use the referree end as a stop whistle very rarely to say 'NO what you're doing is wrong' and then the recall end to say 'come back now' when they've stopped.

You can practice on the lunge rope, start by calling the dog to you when you sense a distraction coming up, then eventually let her run upto something and call her back part way - while on the lunge rope - every now and again use the whistle to mean the same thing and always give lots of praise when she returns.

Even if she chases after something, and doesn't hear you straight away - when she does come back - massive praise. It's too late to tell her off by then and if you do she'll learn not to come back to you.

Good luck - hope this makes sense.

yeah I was looking into some lightweight climbing rope to make a long lead as those extender leads are uncomfy to hold.

yeah I was looking into some lightweight climbing rope to make a long lead as those extender leads are uncomfy to hold.

Yeah that may be a better idea, as the lunge ropes are quite heavy so the dog definitely knows it's there. The trouble with extending leads is also that the dog can feel them so much because they have to pull to extend it.

Alternatively, a length of washing line does the same job ;)

When you decide to let her off, meet someone you know with a dog with decent recall and let them off together somewhere a bit secluded or fenced in.
Then you will have the distraction there and if she doesn't come back, the other dog will -hopefully- and she should follow.

What you doing tomorrow lol. Only joking - I'm taking her on the five weirs walk but on the lead tomorrow as I am not match fit yet so we will have to see who has has enough first.

Hi
Just an idea try reading Jan fennells the dog listener or buying her DVD(my husband found the DVD easier to take in and some librarys have it so we didnt even have to buy it) its all about pack behaviour and will explain your pups behaviour and how to stop it. Its very good and really works. It doesnt give quick fixes but really thats not what you need becuase a quick fix wont really help in the long run and, you dont need any gadgets or special collars all you need is yourself and some treats. If you really dont feel confident taking your dog out for a walk then dont do it play with it in the house or garden, that will give it just as much exercise as a walk can. Theres no point in stressing yourself out beause your dog will pick up on it and miss behave even more. People may think its cruel not to take your dog out but it really isnt if you play with your dog in the house or garden you are giving it the same exercise, obv if you dont have a garden then you'll need to take it out to do its buisness, but if your taking it out just to wear it out, it will only work for so long becuase its fittness will grow and youll have to take it out for longer and longer walks. Her method really does work. I've seen it work on my own dog and other peoples that i have recomended it to. The best thing is you just fit everything into your everyday life and what you already do.
hope this helps
lou

Jan Fennell is good but some have criticised her for focussing too heavily on the pack theory. It can sometimes be dangerous for inexperienced owners to take this approach. I know of a few people who have tried dominating already timid puppies who really should have been reassured whilst the owner thought they needed taking down a peg or two...

Having said that, I dont' have first hand experience as I haven't read it but I have read some not-so-good critics of her's.

If you really dont feel confident taking your dog out for a walk then dont do it play with it in the house or garden, that will give it just as much exercise as a walk can.

Just not the socialisation and mental stimulation of all the smells, other dogs, people, sights etc..???

We got our old man from a rescue after he lived on a farm. We think he had few actual walks and just ran around the farm to get his exercise - all very well but when we got him, he stressed himself out something rotten because he wasn't used to so many dogs in his running area - the park.
It took us abou 5-6 months of constant and careful socialisation and his life is now 10 times better because he doesn't stress out when a dog comes into the park.

I'd say walks are probably one of the best things you can do for your dog, please don't underestimate what they get out of them :thumbsup:

Lotti's beaten me to it on both things I was going to say!

Yes, Jan Fennell has been criticised for her emphasis on pack theory. I also haven't read the book personally, so can't really comment except to say that the fans of the books I have read, haven't recommended that one. Dogs are not wolves. Wolf pack behaviour is fascinating, but I think dogs do know that we are not dogs ourselves. As Jean Donaldson says in her book, The Culture Clash: Our dogs do not spend their nights awake in our kitchens plotting a coup. If your dog pushes past you to get out the door first, most likely, he's eager to get outside. By all means teach him better manners, but don't go too far worrying about what it means in terms of pack order.

I also believe pack order shifts around a bit. I used to have 2 dogs. My first and oldest was top dog, without a doubt. But she didn't bother with Gypsy pushing past her to get through a door. It happened all the time. Things aren't black and white.

Most importantly, I think most dog training methods, positive or negative, work with most dogs. But if you do the wrong thing to the wrong dog, you can end up with a serious problem.

For instance, shouting at a dog that growls, will probably make it stop. Do it to the wrong dog and all you've done is taught it not to give a warning and go straight to the bite. Then you have an extremely dangerous dog.

In my view, it's not worth the risk. Stick to the positive methods. You don't want to dominate your dog. You want to be a benevolent leader.

This is where people have totaly missunderstood it is not about dominating a puppy. yes that puppy should see you as leader but she never once does it in a way that intimidates a dog it is purley through body language and kind tones. A brief part of her method is basically dogs want to be part of the pack so if your dog does something you dont want it to you ignore the behaviour like you would with a child. In this way it is not getting the attention of the pack so in effect its consequence of its actions is that the people it wants to be around are ignoring it. There is much more to her method but i couldnt write everything on here becasue it is better to see her dvd or read the book to get the full picture but that little bit is just to outline there there are no intimidation tactics.

I too know of people that have gone on to say well i believe i should be boss over my dog and have intimadeted but this is nothing to do with her method, most of these people would already intimidate thier dogs and just choose to missinterprate what they have heard about the book to validate that it is ok to do scare dogs into submission. This is definatley not what she is about. Its certainly the kindest method of training i have seen or used myself and my dog is so much happier now and behaves just like a dog should.

thanx louise

And as far as the dogs don't need walks thing, again, they do! Walks are not just about execise, they are about getting out of the usual environment, smelling new smells, finding out what's going on in the world outside their home. Lamposts are a dog's newspaper!

HOWEVER, if you have a particular problem with a dog and it makes you very stressed, there is a case to be made for taking a week or two out of your normal walking routine to work on the behaviour. As an interim measure.

I'm thinking mainly of leash-aggression, here. There is a very strong case to be made for taking timeout to work on the problem before facing the world again. If you know you can't deal with the behaviour, and you know it's inevitable, and it makes you very stressed, and you make your dog stressed, so the behaviour occurs even more, which makes you very stressed...etc, you really need to break the cycle.

But dogs do need walks for more than exercise!

Tizzy2001 - Thanks for that clarification! Maybe I ought to read the book after all before I make up my mind!! I'd actually recommend that everyone reads a few. Helps you to formulate your own position. And, I do believe that dogs are like children and that one method may not be best for all dogs. I was able to treat my first dog like a human. I think she actually WAS a human, trapped in a dog's body. Gypsy is a dog!

Oh and a bit to add on she did not purely get her methods form studying wolf packs she also developed her methods by studying dogs. Her method stops all sorts of problems from pulling on the lead to agression so i would still recomend it to anyone you should read it first before writing it off as a bad idea i agree with elsa on that.

Oh and the walk thing i didnt make my point very clear I did mean you shouldnt take the dog out if you are stressed and you should work on the problems at home and be happy and in control before you take it out again. But if you are not in control and your dog doesnt look to you when it comes accross new things that it can see as a threat you are creating a potential danger as i know from personal experience.

If your dog is still going to attack another dog or go running at a person after 2 weeks of working on the behavioiur at home then you should still not take your dog out there is NO TIME LIMIT on how long it will take for a dog to learn that is does not have to protect you when on a walk. Thats what its doing when it behaves in that manner and also when it is pulling on the lead it is leading you so thinks it again will have to protect you if a threat comes along.

Sometimes we see certain behaviour as excitment but sometimes it really is not. my dog hated going for walks (although we didnt realise she seemed very excitable) a big far labradoor who would normally gobble off your hand if she thought she was going to get food but if you took her on a walk food treats would not work becuase what everyone else was seeing as excitment and nuttyness was actually oh my god all these things going on, i dont know what they are and how i should be reacting? how do i protect her fom that big moving thing that s making a loud noise?

she wasnt pulling to get to the park to play she was pulling to get away from the road and once we got the park she looked at me as if to say thank god thats over can i please go home now and go to sleep she didnt want to play. And she wouldnt eat the treats becuase there was so much going on. She looked like she wanted to go for a walk but when i looked deeper into it it was more sheer panic that was coming over her. Im not saying dogs dont get excited of the thought of going out becasue many do and are happy to go but we shouldnt just presume that all dogs need walks and want to go for a walk.

My dog doesnt like the rain why should she be forced to go for a walk in the rain, and as many owners do make thier dog sit before a road i would like to see us see sat on the pavement in freezing conditions until it was safe to cross. Kids need exercice but when its freezing outside and raining you wouldnt force your child to go out and play with thier friends.

Also for those who say all dogs must go for a walk, what about those dogs with medical problems like severe athritus etc. You can not generalise and say all dogs must go for walks and socialize lifes not like that. I know we shouldnt humanize dogs they are different to humans but at the same token you also cant expect for them to be treated in such different ways.

louise

Grab a cuppa and some food this is a long post SORRY but it might help.

Just waned to put a few points accross, up to everyone if they agree or not just my thinking on things.

Wolves are dogs saying they are not is like saying a Lion or a Tiger ar not just BIG cats. Wolves became domestic pets and due to them not needing the kinds of bodies they once have they Evolved into lovable Labradors gorgeous GSD and lots more every dog is a Wolf at heart.

Walks. Walks are great fun and excercise for both you and your Canine. But They are not a good thing if you are not both HAPPY and IN CONTROL, what do i mean by this?? i mean takinga dog who is new and scared of the big wide world is inviting fights, the dog running off or pulling on the lead. Wolves african wild dogs and cayotes (to name a few) All play more then walk and they are the fittest most active dogs youll ever see. I once heard of a lady who had a Great dane. This lady took Him out for a walk every day a 4 km run....thius became a 5 6 7 km run as time when on her reasoning for this was to wear the dog out. In reality all this does is make a Big dog Fitter and want to play more she now goes for 9-10km jogs everyday (needless to say her and her dog were just fitter and wanted to do it more). I AM NOT SAYING BY ANY STREACH OF THE IMAGINATION THAT DOGS DONT LIKE WALKS. The walk to a domestic dog is just a hunt.(hopefully without fighting and killing)

some dogs dont even like socialising i have seen dogs that just sit in their bed all day and dont really move. (not a stuffed on either)

Jan Fennell's method has worked for me and it is my understanding that she has never had to go to anyones home more then once to retrain a dog. also Jan Fennell has more sucess with her training method then any method i know of.

This method is certainly not to dominate or intimidate any Dog. I know that people have misunderstood Jan Fennell in so many ways.

Its Too Simple its the dogs language. THEY KNOW IT!!
If i said to a netball coach go into a premiership football team and manage them to beat the likes of chelsea and Arsenal without first learning the rules and you could even say language of football they would tll me where to go (maybe not so politley)
we are telling a dog to be Alpha Male in a world it does not understand therefore we get aggressive dogs, dogs who chew things dogs who bark the list goes on.

I already am Boss, that may wel be the case but did you shout at your dog and scare it into thinking your boss??

most of all please dont put Jan's method down without first either visiting her website or reading her book :)
If anyone has any questions please email me ill try and nswer them the best i can.

Welcome to SF Pets forum Matt :thumbsup:

I guess what we're all trying to say is 'read your own dog'. They do talk to you, if only you listen with your eyes :(

Although all dogs are descended from wolves, they now all have different motivating factors.

Take 'fetch' for instance....
Brude is a scent hound (beagle), so where a spaniel or lab (retreivers by breeding) would happily bring a ball back over and over again, Brude thinks the game is to stop the ball from moving, so he'll chase it, but once it's stomped on he can go onto another activity. Persuading him to bring anything back to you is a game in itself :rolleyes:

It's these subtleties that dog owners often miss when trying to interpret the instructions in training books ;)


PS - Tizzy, can you use a few paragraphs to divide your text please? Your opinions are very valuable, but often people don't read large blocks of text with no breaks in it ;)

Oops!:o We've got a few Jan Fennell fans on here!

DLMatt - I don't think I disagree with any of your post anyway, except maybe on the wolves issue. Dogs are a kind of wolf, certainly, but their domestication makes their behaviour different. Shall we agree that they are wolf puppies that will never grow up?? I don't think it matters as long as we're not advocating intimidating our dogs into obeying us.

I meant the same about taking time-out from walking your dog if you're not in control. I wouldn't say there is no time limit, though, because I think it's harmful for a dog not to have walks. If you're not getting anywhere after a certain amount of time (I don't know how long that should be, though!), seek professional help.

I'm not sure I was suggesting dragging arthritic dogs out for 10 mile hikes every day, either! But I'm sure they benefit from a little walk to a new place if they can manage it. My old dog did. I had to walk my dogs separately for the last 8 months or so. 3 hours with the young one, a walk over the road to "potter" around and lie on a blanket on nearby fields with the old one. She loved meeting people and other dogs even though her back end would collapse if she tried to run. I'm sure dogs like a change of scenery as much as we do.

But yes, if you're on a hair-trigger because of your dog. Your dog is on a hair trigger beacuse of you. I, personally, didn't take timeout, but I read some very good books Culture Clash, Other end of the Leash, Click to Calm, Feisty Fido, The power of Positive Dog Training to name a few. They armed me with techniques, and most of all gave me hope that things could change.

We're not cured, but we're on the right path and we're both a lot happier. Stopping walks was never an option for me as we don't just walk for pleasure. We have to get between A and B.

But, timeout is a very good idea if you're that stressed and have the opportunity. Just not forever!

Yes, Strix, that IS what we're all trying to say!!

Btw, if you want Brude to play fetch, I do believe that you could train him eventually...

Still, my Elsa would only chase a ball a few times. She'd wait until you were really into the game, and then suddenly stop and turn her back and make you look REALLY stupid!

That was her favourite game!!

Yes, Strix, that IS what we're all trying to say!!

Btw, if you want Brude to play fetch, I do believe that you could train him eventually...

Still, my Elsa would only chase a ball a few times. She'd wait until you were really into the game, and then suddenly stop and turn her back and make you look REALLY stupid!

That was her favourite game!!One upmanship I think that's called :hihi:

I don't need Brude to play fetch - playing is, after all, for his benefit ;)He much prefers hide and seek, using his nose to scent you out if you've picked a new place to hide he's not thought of yet :D

'Briiiiiinggg it heeeeeerrreeee' usualy persudes him to perform the required action though.

All of Brude's commands are strung out into a houndish bay if the required action is not performed first time of asking - and it works. The big problem I have with him is the same problem Lotti has. I have a dog who thinks. The police revised their intention to use Dobermans for this very same reason ;)

Hi Guys Sorry for the late reply (currently tiling my kitchen :thumbsup: <--sarcastic thumbs up)

I am a big fan of Jan Fennell, as you can probally tell:)
Reason being in one of her Trained Dog listeners :) but i an asure you I will never just see the "dog listeners" point of view. I simply want to show people there is another way :)

As for the breed thing like Tizzy1001's lab ive got a lab who wont run or walk for anyone and it is not because i Havent trained her it is simply because She is happy and content in the home and garden I do take her for walks every now and again but being tought amichein bonding has made me able to read my dog better. i also have seen collies who dont run about a sane english springer and one of the most aggressive dogs ive seen was a black lab.(some might say thats unusual) I do not believe breeds matter in Amichein Bonding.

Please bare in mind AB is not a Obedience class or agility it is basically a method that take all pack responsibilities off Canines who cannot cope in this mad world, i even find it hard :) and im sure some others do too.

If there is anyone who wants to know more or is just curious please let me know i dont want to shove it down your throat in a YOU MUST kind of way i just want people to be aware it works and i can promise with time and effort you can use it to help all dogs!! YES even ones that are over 5 years old even GSD that are "old" all types of dogs can be worked with!!

Cheers again for listening (reading)

MATT

I think people have misunderstood me a little :D

I did say I haven't read the book so can't comment personally and I won't be reading it for some time as I have a lot of reading to do for uni BUT if her methods are that misunderstood so often then perhaps, no matter how good she is at training dogs, she's not quite so good at writing it... Anyway - like I said, I haven't read it.

As far as not taking the dog out - sorry Tizzy it wasn't all that clear that you meant take 'time out' from walks. I never did this with my old man but that's because I knew I could deal with it and I knew he loved walking until he saw another dog.

Okay - the pack method - if you do a search, you'll see I'm a great fan of making sure the dog knows it's part of the pack and a low ranking member at that. I always say to make sure the dog knows you're boss. But I also agree with Elsa that ranks between the dogs vary. My youngest is quite obviously more dominant than my eldest most of the time - but the older one will tell her off and during play, they will take turns to submit to each other. The older one will always go through the door first, then me, then Takara. This is because the older one is very submissive to people, and I don't feel that he needs to learn I'm boss, or even be reminded. However, my youngest has to be reminded to wait for me to go through the door first, and I always pretend to eat from her bowl, etc etc. so that she keeps being reminded because she is a very dominant girl and I don't want her to get too big for her boots.

It's just I have heard from people who use the pack method that they didn't like Jan Fennel's book so I guess I was just trying to make sure that people who aren't sure what they're doing - don't try to do things that they don't know how to.

On the wolf theory - I don't believe dogs are wolves, they are very far removed from wolves and shouldn't be treated like them imo. Yes they exhibit the same sorts of behaviours sometimes but they are domesticated and that should be remembered, that's all.

Okay - I hope I've made myself a bit more clear now.

Haha yes it's obviously true what they say about Staffies & GSD's being vicious and scarey isn't it?! :hihi:
It must be a GSD thing, cos mine is scared of the dark and the wind, and if you go out with her on a windy night she`s very skitty(is that a word?), and drags me all the way home!:hihi: