Is Paula Radcliffe a total loser who bottled it and cried like a baby when she knew she was squarely beaten? Don't you think that it is incrediblely arrogant to think that she was going to win a world event in the first place. Especially one that takes so long and has so many variables, weather and fittness and everything else.
Kelly holmes had the right attitude.She didnt promise anything.:thumbsup:
what do you think?

I must admit, I am arriving at the same conclusion. Fair enough, when it happened the first time I suppose she probably deserved the benefit of the doubt, but after the second time, well....

It seems to me that she is thriving on pity. Shame on her.

I agree. She realised she couldn't win a medal, so she cried and took her ball home. If everyone else did this there'd only be 3 finishers in each race. It's not the type of attitude you expect from a professional athlete. All of the media sympathy is lost on me. To me she appears arrogant, as though she has a god given right to win a medal.

And what a sad, sad way to end a career.

I was annoyed that she didn't attempt to finish but I think her reasons must have been because she was saving herself for the 10000 meters although there was only 3 miles to go it wouldn't have mattered to me if she had walked the remaining distance. She must have been mentally shattered to do what she did. I can't recall anyone every quiting in a similar fashion to this before.

Incidentally, shouldn't the marathon come after the 10,000 metres?

It seems more sensible to have the more gruelling race last.

Originally posted by Lickszz
I was annoyed that she didn't attempt to finish but I think her reasons must have been because she was saving herself for the 10000 meters although there was only 3 miles to go it wouldn't have mattered to me if she had walked the remaining distance. She must have been mentally shattered to do what she did. I can't recall anyone every quiting in a similar fashion to this before. To do what she did and work herself up to a state to concertrate on the 10,000 metres is hardly preparing herself for it.
Her mental state is bound to be an issue and relevant to another failure.
t020 rightly said that if everyone packed because they had no chance of a medal then only three runners would finish the race which is hardly proffessional.
Paula may be the best this country has, but theres a world of runners on that race and yes some of them Paula has beaten in less minor races but if your not mentally tuned into the race your gonna loose.
Running is both mental and physical.

Yes and this illustrates my point. When you are defeated mentally you are more or less automatically finished physically.

none of you have the right to criticise in my opinion. I doubt any of you could even dream of walking that distance, never mind running it.

I do know how hard it is because I have ran 5 full marathons and 2 Ultra runs. To run at that pace in that heat is incredible

Paula:-

the point is she should have finished her race,if i do a triathlon and have a bad day,i dont throw the towel in,i carry on regardless and if she felt so bad,why did she then do the 10,000 mtrs.Was too much expected of her,i think not, she doesn't run away from the publicity when shes winning.
Had she carried on to the finish that would have earned her much more respect.
And yes i have run marathon before,and a few1/2marathons i wasnt gonna win,but i still finished them,may be i just dont like quitters!!!

End of rant.
john t

Nobody likes a quitter but I'd like to attempt to understand what made her quit. I mean, I have seen her on countless occasions not come in the top 3 but never ever quit like that before. Although, she has not been used to been accustomed to been beaten in Marathons so may be that is the key.

Originally posted by Lickszz
Nobody likes a quitter but I'd like to attempt to understand what made her quit. I mean, I have seen her on countless occasions not come in the top 3 but never ever quit like that before. Although, she has not been used to been accustomed to been beaten in Marathons so may be that is the key. I disagree with some points here.
Firstly If she carried on she was putting her life at risk by over heating and severe dehydration. She could have died.
That kind of punishment killed Tommy Simpson the 60s cyclist from Harworth and I know he was on anphetimines which probably helped him on his downfall nether the less he died from heat exhaustion.
Now only Paula Ratcliffe knows the real reason for finishing early, maybe that she so no chance of a medal and packed, then thats inexcuseable although if that was her reason I really think she would have packed earlier, however the heat, humidity, geography of the route and maybe over trained could have been her downfall and then no ones super human.
She did the right thing and packed due to the circumstances and its not worth dying for, even an olympic medal.
Regarding Cyclones comments that none of us have a right to comment well I train hard in cycling which is the hardest sport of all whatever level and raced and cycled 150 miles in one day on many occations and know what its like to suffer in heat, the constant hills and bad weather so i think i do have a right to an opinion.

Originally posted by Cyclone
none of you have the right to criticise in my opinion. I doubt any of you could even dream of walking that distance, never mind running it.

ITS HER JOB!!!. ITS WHAT SHE DOES EVERYDAY. I don't get to 3.15 at my office everyday break down in tears and tell everyone that I cant carry on. Well actually i do!! Which kind of knackers my point!
Sod it I'm off for a run.

is your job some kind of competition. If not then you have no point.

Cycleracer, fair enough, comment away.

I don't like people who presume to know her mind, decided that she DID quit because she couldn't get a medal and then condemn her for that. Unless you're psycic you don't know why she stopped.

Why did she quite,her heart aint big enough to accept defeat easiest way was to stop!
If she was so dehydrated why then do the 10,000mtrs/as a cyclist cycleracer you should no that you dont over come dehydration in a couple of days,if you think so,ask Lance Armstrong how long it took him to recover from last years tour time trial when he almost lost the tour because of it!!!

john t

Originally posted by Cycleracer
I disagree with some points here.
Firstly If she carried on she was putting her life at risk by over heating and severe dehydration. She could have died.
That kind of punishment killed Tommy Simpson the 60s cyclist from Harworth and I know he was on anphetimines which probably helped him on his downfall nether the less he died from heat exhaustion.
Now only Paula Ratcliffe knows the real reason for finishing early, maybe that she so no chance of a medal and packed, then thats inexcuseable although if that was her reason I really think she would have packed earlier, however the heat, humidity, geography of the route and maybe over trained could have been her downfall and then no ones super human.
She did the right thing and packed due to the circumstances and its not worth dying for, even an olympic medal.
Regarding Cyclones comments that none of us have a right to comment well I train hard in cycling which is the hardest sport of all whatever level and raced and cycled 150 miles in one day on many occations and know what its like to suffer in heat, the constant hills and bad weather so i think i do have a right to an opinion.

Do you think that she could have died from exhaustion in the 10000 meters?

Originally posted by Lickszz
Do you think that she could have died from exhaustion in the 10000 meters? Unlikely but 10,000 metres ain't 26 miles.
You can't knock Ratcliffe for failing to finish and as I said nobody knows the real reason why she did only her.
Not only did she have to over come dehydration for the 10.000 m she had to repair the muscle damage to her legs caused by the 23 miles she did.
She failed the 10.000 metres so maybe she had not recovered from dehydration which answers your point john t and maybe she is physically fit but not mentally fit which could result in failure.

Originally posted by john t
Why did she quite,her heart aint big enough to accept defeat easiest way was to stop!
If she was so dehydrated why then do the 10,000mtrs/as a cyclist cycleracer you should no that you dont over come dehydration in a couple of days,if you think so,ask Lance Armstrong how long it took him to recover from last years tour time trial when he almost lost the tour because of it!!!

john t

Have you patented your mind reading device? I presume you have one because otherwise you wouldn't be so foolish as to state an opinion as a fact, right?

She's lost races before, and still gone on to finish them, it's not as if this is a regular occurence? So how do you work out that she quit because she was only going to come 4th?

I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that rehydrating was a relatively quick process... Although maybe she hadn't fully recovered and was thus unable to complete the 10k.

Paula is a world class athlete and she should have been properly prepared for someone of her ability to withstand the pressure and the heat in Athens.. they have 4 years to train for it.. so there is no excuse for quitting.

Tell you what I would have liked to see..
Jane Tomlinson @ the olympics.

I would back her 100% and I doubt she would have quit quite like Paula did.. even though she has terminal cancer.

And least Jane's got balls!!

Why do'nt all the people who think she is no good, challenge her?

Originally posted by ANGELUS
Paula is a world class athlete and she should have been properly prepared for someone of her ability to withstand the pressure and the heat in Athens.. they have 4 years to train for it.. so there is no excuse for quitting.

Tell you what I would have liked to see..
Jane Tomlinson @ the olympics.

I would back her 100% and I doubt she would have quit quite like Paula did.. even though she has terminal cancer.

Sonia O'Sullivan finished last in the 5000m and was lapped but still carried on to the end. She showed what a great champion she had been and displayed great admiration for her fans.

I also recall Derek Redmond on one occasion tearing a hamstring during a 400 metres race and he could have gone off the track but he still limped the remaining 150 metres to finish the race.

I laughed out loud the other day, went on Sky News interactive to be greeted with a poll for our 'olympic hero/heroine'. The choices were Amir Khan, Kelly Holmes, and guess who? Our Paula!! Now let me think, Khan wins silver aged 17, Holmes wins 2 track golds in sensational fashion, and Paula quit twice. Hmm, I wonder which one we should eliminate first?! It's a complete and utter joke and the way the BBC pandered to her was frankly embarrassing. When they started out coming out with phrases like 'oh isn't she so incredibly brave to run the 10,000 metres?' I thought no she isn't, bravery is fighting a war, bravery is risking your life for something, bravery is overcoming something truly tragic. Pretty insulting really to people who face real life or death situations, that we give over so much air time to this brave, heroic, mammoth warrior, who managed to quit in not one but both of her races.

Also the comment about being not right mentally was exactly correct; if you're not right mentally then your body can't perform to it's full capability. That is the most basic principle of sports psychology

Id probably challenge Paula I reckon..

Least I'd finish the race and not breakdown 5 mins from the end
when I know I wouldnt win anything.

Jane Tomlinson for the next olympics!!

Originally posted by ANGELUS
Id probably challenge Paula I reckon..

Least I'd finish the race and not breakdown 5 mins from the end
when I know I wouldnt win anything.

Jane Tomlinson for the next olympics!!

Agree with you on Jane Tomlinson for the next olympics.

Even though Paula failed BOTH races you have to feel pity for her.

There was a lot of pressure on her, whether she was arrogant or not, by claiming 'she was there to win a medal' (is that what she said?).

I could not imagine coping to even start the race with such pressure on her from the British fans of the olympics.

Just thought I'd jump in here to correct a few things...

Firstly, I think some of you should read the extracts from Paula's book that explain fully what happened before and during Athens:

http://www.paularadcliffe.com/book/30.php

(read the sections 'Race for fitness', 'That Day', and 'Taking a gamble'). Maybe it will give you an insight into the life of an elite athlete.

In summary, what happened to Paula was she picked up an injury before Athens - a recurring leg injury which had affected her career several times before. Being just a few weeks away from the Olympics, it was always going to be a race for fitness and after days of intensive therapy and treatment, the injury still wasn't shifting. Eventually the pain stopped, but to keep it at bay Paula was put on a strong course of anti-inflammatories. Unfortunately, because of the high dosage, these had an adverse effect on her stomach and food was being passed through her without being absorbed (to put it pleasantly - on the morning of the Marathon, she went to the toilet and what came out was exactly the same porridge she had eaten at breakfast - still white and everything, completely unabsorbed by her body). It was a sign that her body hadn't absorbed any protein, carbohydrates or energy (so from the outset she was running on empty) and that was a big warning sign and she'd known for days that she wasn't 100%. Her body had been through a hell of a lot in the three weeks previously - if it had been any other race, then she wouldn't have lined up for it, simple as. But this was the Olympics - something she has worked solidly for throughout her 12+ year career (I don't think most people can comprehend just how hard she works and how many sacrifices she had made) - and she wasn't going to give in without a fight. (Those who accuse her of lacking Olympic spirit don't have a clue. Not a clue in the slightest). If you knew about everything she had been through in those final weeks, it was amazing she actually lasted 36km!

So the race started, 10km came and went and she felt OK, but felt as though she was putting more effort into what the split times were showing. She carried on anyway, and then she started to get stomach pains. Bad stomach cramps. Because the anti-inflammatories prevented her body from absorbing food, her body had started to break itself down during the race in order to use up whatever energy she had left.

Contrary to popular belief, it wasn't a matter of dehydration - tests afterwards showed that her body was fully hydrated. It was simply a case of complete energy expenditure. She isn't affected by the heat and has performed well in hot conditions on several occasions - she set the 10km world record Puerto Rico, with conditions comparable to Athens. She won the WCh silver medal in Seville, and in 2000 she broke the 10,000m commonwealth record in the Sydney Olympics.

At 36km, there was nothing left. People say she should have carried on to the finish no matter what, but it shows they simply can't comprehend the feeling of utter exhaustion (and I mean UTTER!) that Paula was feeling. Like an extra four miles is nothing?!?! I'd like to see if they can last another 4 miles (even at walking pace) under such conditions, let alone a full 26-miles! And how many would be willing to try it with an injury, stomach cramps, diarrhea, weakened liver, leg spasms, and clinical exhaustion? No, didn't think so.
People say that she gave up because she was being passed by athletes - what complete *****e. How many times has Paula finished 4th, 5th, 6th in a race? PLENTY. Just because she isn't in the leading three, it doesn't mean she'll give up. Do you really want me to tell you how many races she has completed finishing outside of the medals? And if she is such a quitter, then what other races (apart from Athens) has she "quitted" in? Oh yeh.... NONE. If 'being passed by other athletes' was her motivation for dropping out, then she would have dropped out at 20km, when they started to go past her.

Some criticise her for entering the 10km, but they obviously can't see into the mentality of an elite athlete. After the marathon, her next chance to run in the Olympics would either be in five days time or in another four years. Which option would you choose? Which option would show more 'Olympic spirit'? Answer - competing in the race. She promised her hubby, physio, and medical team that if it got to a point where she started to hurt then she would pull out in order to avoid doing herself long-term physical damage (which, unfortunately, is what it came down to).

In summary:
- It WASN'T dehydration or the fact that she was in 4th or all of the pre-race pressure which forced her to drop out. It was plain illness and injury.
- She COULDN'T have pushed her body any further. Watch the race again and tell me how she was going to last another four miles. She went as far as she possibly could.
- Even if she was leading the race at the time, she would have still been forced to drop out. She was plain running on empty and COULD GO NO FURTHER. If she'd been in a sprint race and started limping and then pulled up, everyone would automatically understand and no-one would be criticising her. With Paula, her problems were internal (stomach cramps, diarhheoa, and complete physical depletion) so maybe people can't quite understand, but believe me when I say she pushed her body to the absolute limit.
- There was NO lack of Olympic spirit nor is there a lack of "the right attitude". If anything, hers was the most gutsy performance of the games. Many people still don't know just how much her body had been through in the weeks leading up to Athens. And then to line up for another race just five days after the BIGGEST disappointment of her life!?! Where's the lack of Olympic spirit there??
- Her win in New York was three minutes faster than the winning time in Athens (and third fastest in the world this year). OK, the courses are incomparable (even though they are both notoriously tough), but it shows that a fully fit Radcliffe is in a different league to the rest of the world over the Marathon distance. She also has the fastest time in the world this year for the 10,000m (30:17) - seven seconds faster than the winning time in Athens. And she has the second-fastest 5000m time this year (14:29) - 16 seconds faster than the winning time in Athens.
- If dropping out of one race makes someone a quitter, then why don't people lambast Kelly Holmes for dropping out of the '97 World Champs? Going in to the Champs, she was the fastest in the world and was heavily favoured for the gold yet she (like Paula) was forced out through injury. Yet no "quitter" label has been applied to her. Many people (especially in the media) have been overly harsh on Paula. Why? I'll never know.

I could go on.. sorry for dragging up an old topic, but it angers me when people sound off about Paula without knowing the full story. If anyone has any questions about it (or about athletics in general), then let me know and I'll answer them as best I can.

Going back to this topic.
There is still only one olympic champion in my eyes.

And that is a lady called Kelly Holmes.
NOT Paula Radcliffe.

Originally posted by ANGELUS
Going back to this topic.
There is still only one olympic champion in my eyes.

And that is a lady called Kelly Holmes.
NOT Paula Radcliffe.


No doubt whatsoever that Kelly Holmes is a champion.

But it's not like Paula's list of achievements is shoddy:

1992 - World Junior cross country champion
1993 - World Champs finalist (7th, 3000m age 19)
1995 - World Champs finalist (5th, 5000m)
1996 - Olympic finalist (5th, 5000m)
1997 - European Cup bronze (3rd, 3000m)
1997 - World Champs finalist (4th, 5000m)
1998 - European Cup winner (1st, 5000m)
1998 - European Cup silver (2nd, 1500m)
1998 - European Champs finalist (5th, 10,000m despite virus)
1999 - European Cup winner (1st, 5000m)
1999 - World Champs silver medal (2nd, 10,000m)
2000 - Olympic finalist (4th, 10,000m)
2000 - World Half Marathon Champion
2001 - World Cross Country Champion
2001 - European Cup silver (2nd, 5000m)
2001 - World Champs finalist (4th, 10,000m)
2001 - World Half Marathon Champion
2002 - World Cross Country Champion
2002 - Won London marathon
2002 - Commonwealth Champion (1st, 5000m)
2002 - European Champion (1st, 10,000m)
2002 - Broke Marathon world record in Chicago
2003 - Broke Marathon world record in London
2003 - World Half Marathon Champion
2004 - European Cup winner (1st, 5000m)
2004 - Won New York Marathon



Yes, she's missing the elusive Olympic gold, but she's achieved a darn sight more than all of the critics and nay-sayers around.