I read a report on BBC Southyorkshire a couple of months ago. A guy had suggested changing the county of South Yorkshire to Greater Sheffield, similar to that of Lancashire to Greater Manchester for some outlying boroughs of Manchester. (Im in one of them! :evil: ) How do people feel about that? Would it be a good or bad idea?:? If you agree, maybe you could suggest why it could be a good idea.

Hmmm tricky one there Rickmiles81, I supose if i lived in a small village in South Yorkshire i would not want to be associated with a big city like Sheffield and Yorkshire is a proud name which is known world wide unlike Sheffield.
I like the idea in theory but don't think it would work.

How do mean Sheffield isn't known world wide?

Erm Sheffield Steel?

I was thinking that too! hehe! 8)
Yorkshire isnt a "county" in itself anymore though.

Well yeah Sheffield Steel is well known but to be honest Sheffield is not the steel town it once was so the worlds younger generation will not know Sheffield as it once was.
I talk to varius people around the world and when i mention Yorkshire the reaction in regards to Sheffield is that the county is more recognisable.

Why is that do you think?
My first visit to the states took me by surprise when an American woman I was chatting to asked me where I was from. I replied Yorkshire..... her response ''What country's that in''?

Thicko or what!

Originally posted by DaBouncer
Why is that do you think?
My first visit to the states took me by surprise when an American woman I was chatting to asked me where I was from. I replies Yorkshire..... her response ''What couintry's that in''?

Thicko or what!

LMAO
:D

Well theres about 5 Sheffields around the world but only one Yorkshire so they can't get that wrong if they have heard of Yorkshire unlike Sheffield as in Utah.

I think renaming the county to Greater Sheffield would be a good thing because it would raise the profile of Sheffield as a whole.

I,m 50/50 on this one though i like being part of Yorkshire.

I think Yorkshire as a county should be re-instated (as it is now, Yorkshire is a former county). Once this is re-instated, places like South Yorkshire could be renamed Greater Sheffield.

South Yorkshire for me every time, it has the sound of beauty, visions of gorgeous countryside, fresh air, space, freedom, naming it greater Sheffield would be a step backward, with thoughts of housing estates, factories, traffic jams, smoke and pollution, no please leave it alone!!!

Originally posted by halevan
South Yorkshire for me every time, it has the sound of beauty, visions of gorgeous countryside, fresh air, space, freedom, naming it greater Sheffield would be a step backward, with thoughts of housing estates, factories, traffic jams, smoke and pollution, no please leave it alone!!!
A Good point there Hal!

Well, I've had the option of saying I'm in "Lancashire" or "Greater Manchester" for most of my life. I've always chosen Lancashire because I'm proud to be from Lancashire. Only losers from places like Cheshire say they're from "Greater Manchester" just because it sounds more important :lol: j/k ...

Basically, "Greater Manchester" only really exists for the emergency services. It's not a real county... "South Yorkshire" is essentially "Greater Sheffield" anyway IMO. (Not wanting to upset anyone from Rotherham, etc...)

It's just a name really, so why change it?

You only have to look at the debacle over East Yorkshire/Humberside...........most people didnt want the change, and refered to where they lived as East Yorkshire anyway, despite the councils objections, and now they have reverted to East Yorkshire again.........I think any change to South Yorkshire would go the same way.

Oh, and when it comes to Sheffield Steel, you'd be suprised how few people in the states have ever even heard of it. It never ceases to amaze me that Sheffields greatest industry is so little known these days.

This may be because Sheffield can no longer claim to be the Steel City it once was due to the decline of the 80s under Thatcher.
The older generation in the States may have heard of Sheffield through its steel, though its unlikely that the new generation will unless they look it up in the history books.
Sad fact but Thatcher government demoralised our steel city to what it is today.
What is it today, f***** if i know.

Sheffield was never really a part of Yorkshire, as South Yorkshire was made up of parts of Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire, with a touch of Lincolnshire. Thats why the Sheffield accent is so different to places like Leeds and Barnsley. Greater manchester is in the same boat as Sheffield, so a name change could make sense, even if it sounds naff.

Originally posted by si@guisborough
Sheffield was never really a part of Yorkshire, as South Yorkshire was made up of parts of Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire, with a touch of Lincolnshire. Thats why the Sheffield accent is so different to places like Leeds and Barnsley. Greater manchester is in the same boat as Sheffield, so a name change could make sense, even if it sounds naff.
Do you have any proof of that? Because as I was taught at school that Yorkshire is a 'former county' which was split into the the 4 ridings that occupied it's territories.
North Riding became North Yorkshire, West Riding became West Yorkshire, East Riding became it's own county and was simply named East Riding and the South Riding (which Sheffield Occupied) became South Yorkshire.
I know plenty of people in Sheffield with a broad Yorkshire accent so I don't know where you get the dialect thing from?
ASAIK sheffield created in the 1200's was within the Yorkshire county... not North Derbyshire or anywhere else!

Riding is a shortened form of thridding which meant a third. There were originally 3 ridings - North, East & West.
IMO We should leave it as it is. Sheffield just can't get any greater!

Yes, sorry, there was never a South Riding! As for the broad accent, my experience as a foreigner (I`m from near Middlesbrough), has lead me to believe you guys have an accent more akin to Nottingham than York. Sorry, just an opinion, I`m an engineer not a linguist!

I thought my school was crap!:P

I have found a map clearly showing 'Sheffield' within an old map of a part of yorkshire.Here (http://www.rossoldbooks.co.uk/Images/RM813.JPG)!!!

Taken from this (http://www.rossoldbooks.co.uk/Yorkshire.html) site!

So Sheffield HAS always been part of yorkshire... but it was West Riding!

Yep, you are right, but it was once part of Northumbria! (Anglo Saxon Times) Things change, and you lot will never be real Yorkshiremen!

Surely the whole idea of calling something a city greater is to refer to an obviously homogenous conurbation ie Greater London which if you look art it on a map is one undeniable urban mass. This is already done in Sheffield and includes the area from roughly Ecclesfield/chapeltown in the north to the end of the tramline at Halfway in the south - and that area is known as sheffield but to include all the rest largely rural areasof South Yorkshire as Sheffield would be on an equivalent scale like London starting somewhere around the West Midlands...ie completely confusing and totally meaningless.

PS growing up outside sheffield and with i like to think a fair general knowledge I didnt really know about the sheffield steel industry but from a very early age knew sheffield was synoymous with cutlery. I remember all the cutlery at primary school even had sheffield stamped on it. Surely cutlery was what sheffield was most famous for not the metal it was made from...

Originally posted by si@guisborough
Yep, you are right, but it was once part of Northumbria! (Anglo Saxon Times) Things change, and you lot will never be real Yorkshiremen!
Yeah YOU say that, but can't seem to prove anything!

And WOW I'll never be a REAL yorkshireman, so does that mean southern folk can stop thinking of me wearing a flat cap and breeding whippets?

I am happy for it to be changed to Greater Sheffield if the COUNTRY can change it's name to Greater Britian :lol: :D

Moon Maiden

No way Hosey, keep it as it is.

BTW
Dore village was part of Derbyshire until 1934 when it became a suburb of South West Sheffield, and in 829AD was on the border of Mercia and Northumbria.

:o

If greater Sheffield ever came to be, it would probably include Rotherham and maybe Doncaster, in the same way that G.Manchester includes Salford, Rochdale, Stockport etc.

Originally posted by si@guisborough
If greater Sheffield ever came to be, it would probably include Rotherham and maybe Doncaster, in the same way that G.Manchester includes Salford, Rochdale, Stockport etc.

I dont think Stockport is included because that is part of cheshire.

Originally posted by rickmiles85
I dont think Stockport is included because that is part of cheshire.

That's like saying that Bolton's not included because it's part of Lancashire - but it is ... :P

Greater Manchester includes: Bolton, Bury, Manchester, Oldham, Rochdale, Salford, Stockport, Tameside, Trafford and Wigan (according to the National Statistics website anyway).

However, the same website lists Greater Manchester as a "Metropolitan County" implying that it's not a "real" county at all... I suspect this would be the same for "Greater Sheffield" too if it ever happened.

yes but salford and stockport and undeniably part of the Manchester conurbation as is croydon etc in london...miles of generally rural land separate doncaster from sheffield which makes the idea of such a greater sheffield nonsensical

Originally posted by Tony Ruscoe
That's like saying that Bolton's not included because it's part of Lancashire - but it is ... :P

Greater Manchester includes: Bolton, Bury, Manchester, Oldham, Rochdale, Salford, Stockport, Tameside, Trafford and Wigan (according to the National Statistics website anyway).

However, the same website lists Greater Manchester as a "Metropolitan County" implying that it's not a "real" county at all... I suspect this would be the same for "Greater Sheffield" too if it ever happened.

Bolton is in the county of Greater Manchester tho :?

Originally posted by rickmiles85
Bolton is in the county of Greater Manchester tho :?

My point exactly!

Bolton is in Lancashire and Greater Manchester.

Stockport is in Cheshire and Greater Manchester.

Stupid, eh!?

Originally posted by Corwyn
Oh, and when it comes to Sheffield Steel, you'd be suprised how few people in the states have ever even heard of it. It never ceases to amaze me that Sheffields greatest industry is so little known these days.

Defending my fellow Americans -- when it comes to teaching us about industry in schools, we're taught plenty about Pennsylvania and Pittsburgh as the big steel makers. Our schools focus more on our own country's industries, rather than global industry (which is not necessarily a good thing). Geography classes are only mandatory at a high school level, and those are survey classes at best.

I knew of Sheffield more for music than for anything else. Oh, and The Full Monty, I guess. Though I have to say, I definitely knew where Yorkshire was before moving here! Most people back home knew both Sheffield and Yorkshire when I told them I was relocating, but then they kept asking me how close it was to London. =)

Originally posted by Tony Ruscoe
My point exactly!

Bolton is in Lancashire and Greater Manchester.

Stockport is in Cheshire and Greater Manchester.

Stupid, eh!?

Yes very :-S Are both places split with counties?

It's a very BAD idea.

It might make the area sound larger, but that has potentially bad repercussions.

On the news, I sometimes hear of a murder in Greater Manchester. Living there, it makes my ears prick up and worry, but then I find out that it might be in Rochdale or Oldham, some twenty or thirty miles away and absolutely nothing to do with my area.

Like Tony Ruscoe said previously, it just causes confusion.

most of southern sheffield was in derbyshire county until quite recently when the sheffield council bought the land for housing.

i don't like the fact that it's classed as south yorkshire, because a lot of sheffield (including where i live) wasn't yorkshire until it became a part of sheffield

greater sheffield is just daft though and i wouldn't be pleased if i lived in rotherham or doncaster - maybe they should come up with a new name..... suggestions anyone?

what about escashire?

Originally posted by chrissy
Defending my fellow Americans -- when it comes to teaching us about industry in schools, we're taught plenty about Pennsylvania and Pittsburgh as the big steel makers. Our schools focus more on our own country's industries, rather than global industry (which is not necessarily a good thing). Geography classes are only mandatory at a high school level, and those are survey classes at best.

How many of us living in the UK point to say Detroit, birth of the mechanised car production line on a map of america? Not me - it's in the middle somewhere, close to Chicago maybe?

I knew of Sheffield more for music than for anything else. Oh, and The Full Monty, I guess. Though I have to say, I definitely knew where Yorkshire was before moving here! Most people back home knew both Sheffield and Yorkshire when I told them I was relocating, but then they kept asking me how close it was to London. =)

Not far, but then again by US standards, nowhere in the British Isles is very far from london - a bit like australia in that respect, where I understand you sometimes need a full tank just to get up the driveway.

As a proud Yorkshireman but also a proud Sheffielder this is always a hard one but I think that this move would cover up the good work that happens in the rest of South yorkshire. Lets remember the capital of south yorkshire was based in Barnsley - How about Greater Barnsley?

Alot of people away from Yorkshire so not realise that Sheffield is in Yorkshire.

In fact when I worked in Birmingham for a while one lady asked me how the beach was in Sheffield....

No we need to keep it as it is...

After a very interesting conversation with someone over the weekend from Rotherham, the Greater Sheffield question came up.

Do you believe that Sheffield should take all of the surrounding towns (Doncaster, Barnsley, Rotherham etc) under its wing ala Manchester, or should we dis-associate ourselves with these towns further still due to the majorly negative baggage that these towns may bring?

Originally posted by jayjay03
After a very interesting conversation with someone over the weekend from Rotherham, the Greater Sheffield question came up.

Do you believe that Sheffield should take all of the surrounding towns (Doncaster, Barnsley, Rotherham etc) under its wing ala Manchester, or should we dis-associate ourselves with these towns further still due to the majorly negative baggage that these towns may bring?

Merged this with a very similar previous thread.

Originally posted by rarstar
what about escashire?
Yes, name it after me.
:headbang:

In the eyes of our less fortunate neighbours, we will always be regarded as 'Deedahfield', whether we are under the Greater Sheffield moniker or not.

OK, some parts of Sheffield south were in Derbyshire, but most of what is now South Yorkshire(for adminstrative purposes only) have always previously been in West Riding of Yorkshire. In the villages to the east, there has always been great pride in being Yorkshire, whatever the Riding. Greater Sheffield? I don't think so.

By the way(I can't spell initials), the Yorkshire website, in a Dialect page, quotes language experts as saying that the North Riding and East Riding accents have always been classed as Northern British, but the whole of the West Riding is North Midlands.

Interesting? I thought not.

:lol:

Originally posted by mikey
BTW
Dore village ... in 829AD was on the border of Mercia and Northumbria.

:o

Hence it was the Dore between these two, erm, districts? Territories? What did they call them in those days?

Originally posted by jayjay03
Do you believe that Sheffield should take all of the surrounding towns (Doncaster, Barnsley, Rotherham etc) under its wing ala Manchester, or should we dis-associate ourselves with these towns further still due to the majorly negative baggage that these towns may bring?

Negative or not I'm not sure that there would be any benefit to having a Greater Sheffield, to Sheffield at least (I can't really speak of the impact it would have on other South Yorkshire towns having never lived in any). And it doesn't make sense to associate Sheffield with all the crime that happens in South Yorkshire as, even if it's no higher per-mile or per-person than Sheffield, it all will add up to greater figures the larger Sheffield gets.

I mis-read Jayjay's comment. I thought he was suggesting taking the names of all the surrounding towns. Very democratic, but an anagram of Sheffield, Doncaster, Barnsley, Rotherham is 'Cheesed off neanderthals smart horribly' (along with one or two less charitable ones) :D

I posted the original message on the BBC SY board that has been picked up and continued on this impressive forum. I must admit that I was asked by the BBC to help kick start their board (fat lot of good that did as their message boards are risible) so I chose a deliberately inflammatory topic to begin with. Greater Sheffield is a topic I am interested in, but I remain unconvinced if truth be told.

In reality, whilst Greater Sheffield would bring publicity to Sheffield, I can't yet see what it would do for towns like Doncaster. As a former resident of Manchester I know that many of the residents there are frustrated at the city council ploughing millions into publicity friendly schemes whilst the suburbs most in need continue to degenerate far worse than our most deprived areas. In truth we'll never command as much column inches than our neighbours across the pennines and perhaps that is no bad thing.

Sheffield's "great" enough as it is. It has never been in the nature of people round here to boast. We just know it's the best place to live.

Greater Sheffield just sounds a bit dumb to me. :confused: Nah just stick with South Yorkshire. Not some new fangled name. :)

I too prefer South Yorkshire to Greater Sheffield.

Greater Sheffield just sounds too arrogant... there are lots of other places in SY too!

And Greater Manchester is confusing - there are so many places around there where even people who live there don't know whether they're in Lancashire, Greater Manchester, or Cheshire (or probably others too that I can't think of).