Just a warning for all you bus passengers out there,we bus drivers have hels a strike ballot on this years pay deal,and industrial action has been called.
Yet again,First has tried to make us self fund any pay rise.The offer made is 1.5% over three years,losing sick pay and bank holidays.

All drivers apologise to the public,but the management have to learn that we cannot be **** on like this.

Good luck in fighting for your share of the pie.

I'm not surprised you're going on strike.

Amongst the lowest paid drivers in the country, but the expensive fares are an outrage. Where's all the money going? Do I need to ask that question?

Just give us plenty of notice of the strike dates please.

PS - Expect some abuse from the 'Capitalism is King' brigade

Those crazy capitalists...they'll be wanting you to pay them for the honour of having a job before too long!

Originally posted by Abdul
Expect some abuse from the 'Capitalism is King' brigade

Why? Taking strike action is exactly what capitalism is about. If you have money to invest and you don't like the way a company operates then you withdraw your money from that company. Similarly, if you have no money then labour is your currency and you are just as entitled to withdraw that.

It annoys me when free marketeers complain about people striking and endangering their organisation yet have no qualms about withdrawing investment from struggling companies thus speeding up their downfall. [/rant]

Good luck in the fight.

When will the strike be?

I wish you success in your strike for fairer pay. I applied to become a bus driver with First last year, but when I saw their pay structure I threw the application form in the bin! For such a big company, and with driving being as stressful as it is, I think the wage is a joke! And they wonder why there is such a shortage of bus drivers!

I am now doing a job that is probably much less stressful than driving buses around Sheffield, and pays rather better as well!

The story can be found here http://www.sheffieldtoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=58&ArticleID=821145

looks like they are walking out some point next week until further notice!

According to the union spokesman, the money you spend on the expensive fares go into a combination of shareholders pockets, printing glossy brochures and painting the wheel trims!

According to tonight's Star they're walking out from Monday and the strike will be indefinite until they can sort something out with their employers.

Stupid fecking First, as if bus services in Sheff aren't screwed enough! No offense to bus drivers, I know you do a good job and get crapped on from a great height by your bosses for it.

I agree with their stance. The pay they receive is abysmal.

Good on you striking bus drivers! Show them you cannot be pushed into a hole and buried. 24p increase over two years is a joke (and not in good taste either!)

My only hope is you don't get suckered into a deal like the firmen got (or didn't as it turns out!)

I cannot believe anyone on this board would accept a 24p per week pay rise over two years...its farcical

As much as I feel sorry for the the poor pay the drivers receive, i think it is in line with the service they give back to the customers ;) which is probably the worst in england.

The drivers should get bonus' based on good service. Often ive had good service on the buses and trams and I tell em so, but more often than not im made to feel like a second class citizen for having say 10p in coppers or shouted at for not quite displaying my student pass at the correct angle. (yes, really).

I hope the 'service' is resumed quickly, and peacefully. Oh and thanks to the drivers I often meet who are actually nice. (Honest, there are some!!)

The offer is an increase of 20p per hour this year and 4p per hour next year as I read in the star. I know that many in the retail have had less then this the retail trade this year. The offer seems to be in line with many in the commercial world today. The main debate is where does your company fund the annual pay increase.It's a difficult answer as someone has to accept a cut whether is less profit for the company to invest in the longer term future and less divi is paid to its sharholders. I would be interested to know how many of the staff who have voted for strike action were once employee share holders in the former Mainline Company before selling it to First. If the service was still employee owned how much would you be paying yourself now I wonder?
I would say to all the drivers is that to have a good case your union should find out what the best rates of pay and terms and conditions of work are in other major bus companies ie Stagecoach,National Express Group etc. are and say that in 'x' number of years this is where the company should be...... by this I mean that First should have NO BUSES over 10 years old, its pay rates and terms and conditions for staff are market leaders etc. Good luck with your Case and I don't want my annual fare expenditure to increase by more than inflation!!!!

It’s great to see so many positive posts of support for the bus drivers in this dispute.

I think we should all follow it up with letters to First letting them know how much the public is behind the drivers.

I was in France once when the bus drivers where on strike but instead of not driving the buses they just didn’t collect fares. you could just ride around all day for free.

Maximum support from public and it really hits the employers hard.

Is this illegal in this country?

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
It’s great to see so many positive posts of support for the bus drivers in this dispute.

I think we should all follow it up with letters to First letting them know how much the public is behind the drivers.

I was in France once when the bus drivers where on strike but instead of not driving the buses they just didn’t collect fares. you could just ride around all day for free.

Maximum support from public and it really hits the employers hard.

Is this illegal in this country?

Probably, knowing the muppets we have running teh country :loopy:

Let us hope the strike can be averted and common sense prevail,but as far as support from the public is concerned,it may not last if the strike is prolonged.
I have spoken to a driver tonight who is loathe to strike but he told me that feeling is running very high and that unless the pay rise is substantially improved the strike is certain to go ahead.
And from what they have been offerd they are right to reject this pathetic increase.

the strike action is pointless anyway, because if you think about it the drivers arent going to get paid for the time off are they... and that amount of money lost is going to easily equate if dwarf the amount they are wanting.

That is a fair point but I think they feel that they are being ridden roughshod over,and sometimes you have to say enough is enough.
Like I said hopefully this will be resolved,but my fear is that it will leave relations between managment and workforce damaged for the foreseeable future.

Originally posted by RPG
the strike action is pointless anyway, because if you think about it the drivers arent going to get paid for the time off are they... and that amount of money lost is going to easily equate if dwarf the amount they are wanting.

If everybody thought like that...I dread to think where we would be.

Bosses would be free to slash wages - oh but there's no point complaining because at least we're getting paid, if we strike we won't get anything so let's bow our head and be thankful we have a job.

Whether or not the drivers lose out on pay by striking does NOT make action pointless. It's about standing up for your rights. If nobody did, then, quite honestly, I don't think we'd even have a national minimum wage!

the world probably would be a better place, it certainly will be in sheffield next week!!

I dont think the drivers actually realise the scale of damage they'll cause to sheffield as a whole, people who use the uses as a lifeline to get needed pension money (because the flaming PO's have shut), or people who are going to hospital on the bus.

What about the countless peoples who cant get into work all because of a seeminglu petty strike? You have the choice not to work or not, by striking you are taking away others' choice to work.

There are better ways to voice your distaste of how you are treated, such as in france or america where you work but dont bring in the money. Its quite simple really.

The trouble at the moment is the workforces who feel they are undertreated nowadays can just go "ooh, we'll strike" and cause irrepriable damage elsewhere, its just plain selfish.

And before anyone starts, I dont use the buses very often because frankly they are utter crap. Id rather walk the 2 or so miles to the tram than have to get attitude from either the driver or idiot NEDs who seem to surf the backs of buses.

Its about time the strike'es think about the larger picture before jumping in head first with these sensational claims about "indefinate strike action" because TBH its only making the worker-management divide larger and overall public hatrid towards yourgoodself, only no one dares speak up about it for fear of backlash.

Back to the buses;

If it were upto me, the buses in sheffield should be owned by sheffield, for sheffield. Like it used to.

It worked well back then, why shouldnt it now?

A few points. I was involved in a bus driver strike in 1981 here in Edmonton. On the first day of the strike, we were told by the member of city council who was involved that we would be on strike for 41 days, until the city had saved enough money by not paying our wages to give us the raise we wanted! Sure enough, 41 days later we got our raise. I lost a beautiful Chevrolet Caprice Classic convertible because I couldn't make the payments! It took me at least three years to get back to the financial position I was in before we went on strike!!
Two fact on strikes:- Striking for more money is like f*****g for virginity! Or like fighting for peace! It kind of defeats the purpose.

it's all well and good to call a strike petty and say that the drivers have no idea of the damage they are doing.

When you're not the one who's been offered a paltry pay rise and have no other means to negotiate.

As far as i'm concerned it is any organised unions right to negotiate for the workers, and the ultimate action they can take is to strike.
It's not petty, it's the only leverage they have. And maybe it will cost all the drivers money in the short term, but equally it will cost first money, and it makes the news. Whether it's drivers or management that get vilified in the news, it's firstgroup that carries the stigma afterwards, and the people offering this pitiful payrise don't want that to happen as it impacts their bottom line.

This is all about money of course, both for the drivers and for the management. The only question is who will fold first. Hopefully the management will offer a better payrise, as firstgroups financials are fine, and the south yorkshire region is one of it's more profitable ones (built on the old mainline).

And i'm sure the drivers are completely aware of what impact their actions will have. In the world you envisage RPG they would simply accept 1.5% as their due. And next time maybe they'll take a 1.5% paycut, since you'd rather they don't strike. And one day we'll all be working for the minimum wage, since it might inconvenience some people if we protested that we were worth more.

I'm behind the bus drivers all the way but it seems nowadays if there is a problem with pay or hours then the only option is strike..full stop. I really liked the idea of bus drivers working but not collecting fares. This would really galvanise the relationship between bus drivers and customers. As much as people in this forum are showing their support there will be a lot of annoyed customers out there that will grow to dispise the bus service even more.
If you were to carry on working but not collecting fares then surely it will hit the bosses pockets more. They still have to pay you, you are still using fuel for the buses but they are getting NIL revenue..whereas if you went on strike they wouldn't pay you at all and would probably still run a skeleton service allbeit a poor one. There must be more options than just an out and out strike. Its about time we were more imaginative about our protests!!

imaginative, but completely illegal. That would simply result in disciplinaries for the drivers involved. Probably not sacking, but it's then something they can use in the future if they wish to get rid of anyone.
Whereas striking is legal and can't result in disciplinary action.

Originally posted by RPG
I dont think the drivers actually realise the scale of damage they'll cause to sheffield as a whole, people who use the uses as a lifeline to get needed pension money (because the flaming PO's have shut), or people who are going to hospital on the bus.

What about the countless peoples who cant get into work all because of a seeminglu petty strike? You have the choice not to work or not, by striking you are taking away others' choice to work.

There are better ways to voice your distaste of how you are treated

Ok, on the same principle, protest marches such as stop the war should be banned from the city centre. This disrupts my ability to travel home from work or shop in peace.

Be interested to know if any women who support this no public disruption argument refuse to vote because of a horse race was disrupted nearly a century ago, or if people refuse to recognise the end of Empire in India because a few train tracks were blocked.

First will try their hardest to channel all negative press about this strike directly at the drivers and not at themselves for offering such abysmal pay, they want it to be seen purely as a strike against the public and not them.

Shame the ride for free option is illegal, but maybe if the conflict continues more radical options are needed.




What is the best way to contact First and raise my opposition to their actions? As i said before they are relying upon public opinion breaking this strike and i want them to know how much i support the drivers.

Is this contact adequate?

Customer Services Team
First
Midland Road
Rotherham
South Yorkshire
S61 1TF
Tel: 01709 566000


Or can a driver provide something more substantial?

the argument that strikers actively lose out by striking over pay is totally misleading. sure, you may lose the extra wages you are demanding that year, but that extra 1 or 2% remains with you in next years pay packet, and in the years after that etc etc.

And transport workers goinhg on strike does not make it impossible for others to get to work, slightly more difficult, maybe, but not impossible at all. Or does anyone who would argue such a thing believe that transport workers are simply there to serve them, and that they have no rights of their own?

OK, with my helpful hat on, let's get together a list of public transport services operated by other companies, which can be used whilst First is on strike (if it goes ahead of course)

Trains:
Sheffield-Meadowhall-Chapeltown-Barnsley
Sheffield-Darnall-Woodhouse-Kiveton-Worksop
Sheffield-Dore-Hope Valley-Manchester
Sheffield-Meadowhall-Rotherham-Doncaster

Trams:
Yellow: Meadowhall-Sheffield-Middlewood
Blue: Halfway-Sheffield-Malin Bridge
Purple: Herdings Park-Sheffield

Yorkshire Terrier buses
25 Bradway-Woodseats-Heeley-Sheffield-Woodhouse
49/49A Herdings-Sheffield-Parson Cross
52 Hillsborough-Crookes-Sheffield-Darnall-Woodhouse
61/62/63/64/65 Hillsborough/Bradfield rural links network
72/72A/72B Batemoor-Woodseats-Sheffield-Darfield/Manvers/Meadowhall
74/74A Millhouses-Ecclesall Road-Sheffield-High Green
120 Halfway-Sheffield-Hallamshire Hospital
123 Holbrook-Sheffield-Walkley

TM Travel buses
89 Sheffield-Woodseats-Dronfield-Holmesfield-Chesterfield
213/214 Meadowhall-Wirksworth
252 Sheffield-Waterthorpe
285 Sheffield-Hallowes
293 Meadowhall-Sheffield-Millhouses-Bradway-Dronfield

Stagecoach buses
43/44 Sheffield-Woodseats-Dronfield-Chesterfield
50/53 Sheffield-Mosborough-Chesterfield/Mansfield
65 Sheffield-Buxton
272 Sheffield-Castleton
747 Meadowhall-Woodseats-Chesterfield-Mansfield-Nottingham
767 Meadowhall-Worksop

Aston buses
M17 Jordanthorpe-Greenhill-Low Edges-Bradway-Totley-Dore
253 Sheffield-Woodseats-Coal Aston-Apperknowle-Waterthorpe
265 Sheffield-Chapeltown-Barnsley

First Staffordshire buses
X18 Sheffield-Totley-Bakewell-Buxton-Leek-Hanley

Hulleys
272 Sheffield-Castleton

Barnsley & District
X10 Sheffield-Meadowhall-Chapeltown-Barnsley

Go drivers!

Someone needs to make a stand against the current employment culture. You know- "we're doing you a favour giving you a job and if you don't like the pay or condition p**s off cos theres another 5 people from some temp agency waiting to sit in your seat". (I blame the 80s.)

Employers need to wake up and realise its their staff that make the firm and treating them badly to save a bit of coin is NOT the way forward.

What about a happy worker is a productive worker?

Oh aye and bus drivers being miserable? Fair enough, I've met nuff rude surly bus drivers over the years but if I was getting paid what they were for the job they do I'd have face on as well.

Good luck to you drivers, I hope the money grabbing ****s that run mainline listen for once.

Originally posted by uncleheed
Yet again,First has tried to make us self fund any pay rise.The offer made is 1.5% over three years,losing sick pay and bank holidays.

1.5% over three years is actually quite ridiculous. Consumer prices rose by 1.5% last year alone (year prior:1.2%) and on average, wages in Britain rose by 4.3% (this year alone!, prior year 3.2%). Now I know this is a bit distorted by the South, but you get a clear overall picture of how good the UK is doing at the moment on average. I don't think you guys are offered a square deal, is there really no other way but strike though?

(Source: Economist, http://www.economist.com/markets/indicators/index_wide.cfm?page=Economic%20and%20Financial&story_id=2908684)

It seems that the people who always get forgotten in cases like this are the most important people of all - the customers; without whom First would not have a business and the drivers would not have a job. It is the customers who always come off worst in bus strikes by being inconvenienced by the strike and then having to fund the pay rise with higher fares. A double whammy!

Personally I think the drivers should be given a more generous pay settlement but only in exchange for signing a no strike aggreement and on the strike understanding that it is not funded by fare rises. This deal should be offered to each driver individually and not to the union as a whole.

Hopefully enough drivers will accept to either prevent a strike or at least mitigate its effects. If this does not happen the company should have enough backbone to ride out any strike (possibly bringing in driver from outside) and starve the drivers back to work. This should hopefully be a deterant to any future strike.

Is this the same forum that slated bus drivers several weeks ago?

:confused:

I was behind them then and I'm still behind them now.:thumbsup:

Go for it, drivers!

Many of the people who will be most effected by any bus strike are going to be on a lower income than the drivers themselves.

The people who use buses most are those on low incomes such as pensioners and those on benefits.

One more point. I have noticed how many bus drivers seem to smoke (EVEN ON BUSES WHERE THEY KNOW THEY SHOULD NOT). Perhaps if they gave up their wages would go a lot further. As a life long non-smoker I certainly don't waste my money on fags and quite honestly have little sympathy for those who do and then come crying poverty.

Smoking drivers has got nothing to do with this proposed strike,you are going off point here.
But is it not possible for the parties to take the dispute to arbritation along the line of ACAS or something.
If the parties are sure of their case then woul'd this not be worth the attempt.
One more thing you can be pretty sure that any increase will be funded by a increase in the fares,then we will see if the public are so inclined to back the strike.

Can't believe we are still paying such a big price for deregulation after all these years. I'd be happy to pay another 5p on my fare if it meant that the drivers got a better standard of living, but i'd be even happier if the shareholders and upper management took less of a slice of the pie and spread the wealth a little.

Good luck to the drivers. They deserve more money, especially as they now do two peoples jobs, not one.

Originally posted by Snook
Can't believe we are still paying such a big price for deregulation after all these years. I'd be happy to pay another 5p on my fare if it meant that the drivers got a better standard of living, but i'd be even happier if the shareholders and upper management took less of a slice of the pie and spread the wealth a little.

Good luck to the drivers. They deserve more money, especially as they now do two peoples jobs, not one.

You may be glad of deregulation if there is a strike. At least the trams and yorkshire Terrier buses will still run. In the old days a bus strike ment that there was no public transport at all.

In the old days i wouldn't have been paying £1.10 to go three stops and the drivers wouldn't be insulted with such low wages.

They didn't have to worry about being polite to the public all day either and getting abuse if they didn't smile, they just had to drive.

Dont forget in the old days the buses were subsidised from the old rates system,so although your fares were small you were still paying out for the service via the rates.
This led to the situation where the well off ,those who did not use public transport very much having to subsidise those who were less well off ,but used the bus more.
Now you can argue whether that was right or wrong,I personally think those who are better off shoul'd support those less fortunate.

The drivers have to look after themselves, just like everyone else.
If they didn't strike now (ACAS cannot help, it needs both side to talk, and the only weapon the drivers have is strike), then 1st have won, the pitiful payrise goes through, more drivers leave and the service continues to deteriate.

If they are given a more generous payrise then they won't strike. No silly agreement is needed, and why should the union accept the company going to individual drivers. Without the union each one can be easily broken to accept whatever pittance is offered.
Or did you mean a 'no strike ever again' agreement, patently stupid as they give up their one point of leverage for a 1 off reasonable payrise???

I'm glad to see that you are completely confused. You'd like the drivers to be given a fair wage, but are behind 1st in breaking the strike and thus never having to offer a decent payrise again? Which is it, who do you support?

Originally posted by slimsid2000
It seems that the people who always get forgotten in cases like this are the most important people of all - the customers; without whom First would not have a business and the drivers would not have a job. It is the customers who always come off worst in bus strikes by being inconvenienced by the strike and then having to fund the pay rise with higher fares. A double whammy!

Personally I think the drivers should be given a more generous pay settlement but only in exchange for signing a no strike aggreement and on the strike understanding that it is not funded by fare rises. This deal should be offered to each driver individually and not to the union as a whole.

Hopefully enough drivers will accept to either prevent a strike or at least mitigate its effects. If this does not happen the company should have enough backbone to ride out any strike (possibly bringing in driver from outside) and starve the drivers back to work. This should hopefully be a deterant to any future strike.

I think what most people are saying is that if First wants to call its self a leading player in the provision of public transport(bus & Rail) in the UK then then all sides want a fair deal.... customers want upto date fleets of buses/trains, to travel at a fair price,shareholders given a reasonable return and that staff pay and terms and conditions for working at First are the Best in the industry. If all of these where in place no one would be at boiling point and trying to score points.It may be a good job that First was not awarded the New Northern rail franchise and that the Yorkshire Traction Group bought out Yorkshire Terrier/Sheffield Omnibus/Andrews and provide a service in the Sheffield area. A few years ago First were trying to get a foothold in Barnsley.

they run services in barnsley don't they? And York, Leeds, Huddersfield, Manchester, and most of the rest of the country.

No First is not the major operater in Barnsley this belongs to Yorkshire Traction who also own Barnsley & Dristrict. The last figures I saw for the major bus groups operating in the UK was that First had 23% Arriva 15% Stagecoach 15% Go Ahead 8% market share
National Express own Travel West Midlands (Birmingham Area)?%
There are then several medium size bus group companies like Yorkshire Traction,Blazefield and Trent Barton. Just the other day while waiting for a train I was have a flick through the mags at Smiths and it seems First are getting bad press in several other areas Manchester and Leeds being nearest for bringing in older buses from its other operating areas.Sheffield has had some from Northampton and London in the the past year. Also have you noticed the increasing use of pieces of card to show service number and destination. The other practice not just in Sheffield is why colour code the bus for Overground network operation then put that bus on some other route?

Originally posted by slimsid2000

One more point. I have noticed how many bus drivers seem to smoke (EVEN ON BUSES WHERE THEY KNOW THEY SHOULD NOT). Perhaps if they gave up their wages would go a lot further. As a life long non-smoker I certainly don't waste my money on fags and quite honestly have little sympathy for those who do and then come crying poverty.

If you can't help looking like an idiot when you open your mouth, staying silent is surely a better option...

If a bus driver wants to spend his earnings on cigarettes, then that is his or her right. And nothing to do with you, and nothing to do with whether they are entitled to a better pay structure.

I suppose you go shopping for only the bare nutritional essentials for survival, as anything more extravagant would be an appalling waste of money?

Or is it that a bus driver is so low in your eyes that it's an outrage that they should have any amount of "disposable" income - i.e. money that doesn't go on bills, food and rent/mortgage?

Originally posted by slimsid2000
It seems that the people who always get forgotten in cases like this are the most important people of all - the customers; without whom First would not have a business

That is the whole point of leverage in a strike. If the employers don't make the effort to negotiate reasonably and come to a settlement, then the staff go on strike, which means the customers aren't spending money, which hits the company where it hurts! The longer the strike goes on for, the more the companies bottom line gets damaged, which focuses management minds.

And of course the longer the strike goes on for the longer the staff don't get paid.

So it is in everybody's interest to resolve it as soon as possible.

Originally posted by slimsid2000
One more point. I have noticed how many bus drivers seem to smoke (EVEN ON BUSES WHERE THEY KNOW THEY SHOULD NOT). Perhaps if they gave up their wages would go a lot further. As a life long non-smoker I certainly don't waste my money on fags and quite honestly have little sympathy for those who do and then come crying poverty.

So what do you waste money on? Alcohol perhaps? You don't need to waste money drinking booze, you are obviously getting paid too much and should have a pay cut.

Obviously that is a stupid statement, as is the statement that drivers wouldn't need a pay rise if they gave up smoking.

Originally posted by slimsid2000
You may be glad of deregulation if there is a strike. At least the trams and yorkshire Terrier buses will still run. In the old days a bus strike ment that there was no public transport at all.

Well there was always good old BR!

Some people moan about bus drivers being unhelpful or bad-mannered etc, but I wonder how many people would be able to cope with the impatient and rude passengers they have to deal with every day for what amounts to barely more than the minimum wage!

Although I have a car, I prefer to use public transport when possible and most of the bus drivers I meet are polite and good at their job, but I do think they are right to expect a decent wage for what is a very stressful and difficult job!

my sentiments exactly:thumbsup:

Not read the rest of the post yet, but based on a 40 hour week you are getting £416 a year more which is more than my rise. (for the 865 drivers balloted this is almost 400k first we need to pay) You only went on strike last year for the same issue, greed on the driver as well as the company.

You are sorry for the public, but it is us that suffer. be in rises in fares or paying for taxi's etc to get us to work.

And what notice do we get not even a week. Yes I admit we get notice that you may go on strike in a week but the actual notice is less than that. We have very little time to prepare alt. transport to get to work, doctors, hospitals, shopping etc.

I see the advert looking for drivers who can offer good customer service, where is the customer service in this action???

With the pay rise no matter how much you manage to get will you improve on your (all drivers not you personally) customer service skills, and learn how to speak to people, operate the low floor buses when needed not having to ask or sometimes demand, etc

I will wait and see.

Jubby

Originally posted by Internetowl

I cannot believe anyone on this board would accept a 24p per week pay rise over two years...its farcical

its 24p an hour which over 40 hour week is £416 a year. More than most people get.

Jubby

Originally posted by Andy C
OK, with my helpful hat on, let's get together a list of public transport services operated by other companies, which can be used whilst First is on strike (if it goes ahead of course)

Trains:
Sheffield-Meadowhall-Chapeltown-Barnsley
Sheffield-Darnall-Woodhouse-Kiveton-Worksop
Sheffield-Dore-Hope Valley-Manchester
Sheffield-Meadowhall-Rotherham-Doncaster

Trams:
Yellow: Meadowhall-Sheffield-Middlewood
Blue: Halfway-Sheffield-Malin Bridge
Purple: Herdings Park-Sheffield

Yorkshire Terrier buses
25 Bradway-Woodseats-Heeley-Sheffield-Woodhouse
49/49A Herdings-Sheffield-Parson Cross
52 Hillsborough-Crookes-Sheffield-Darnall-Woodhouse
61/62/63/64/65 Hillsborough/Bradfield rural links network
72/72A/72B Batemoor-Woodseats-Sheffield-Darfield/Manvers/Meadowhall
74/74A Millhouses-Ecclesall Road-Sheffield-High Green
120 Halfway-Sheffield-Hallamshire Hospital
123 Holbrook-Sheffield-Walkley

TM Travel buses
89 Sheffield-Woodseats-Dronfield-Holmesfield-Chesterfield
213/214 Meadowhall-Wirksworth
252 Sheffield-Waterthorpe
285 Sheffield-Hallowes
293 Meadowhall-Sheffield-Millhouses-Bradway-Dronfield

Stagecoach buses
43/44 Sheffield-Woodseats-Dronfield-Chesterfield
50/53 Sheffield-Mosborough-Chesterfield/Mansfield
65 Sheffield-Buxton
272 Sheffield-Castleton
747 Meadowhall-Woodseats-Chesterfield-Mansfield-Nottingham
767 Meadowhall-Worksop

Aston buses
M17 Jordanthorpe-Greenhill-Low Edges-Bradway-Totley-Dore
253 Sheffield-Woodseats-Coal Aston-Apperknowle-Waterthorpe
265 Sheffield-Chapeltown-Barnsley

First Staffordshire buses
X18 Sheffield-Totley-Bakewell-Buxton-Leek-Hanley

Hulleys
272 Sheffield-Castleton

Barnsley & District
X10 Sheffield-Meadowhall-Chapeltown-Barnsley

Thats all well and good until about 6pm for a lot of these services Terrier def. finish about 6pm the 49/49A does anyway. Also what about Sunday? and BH as August BH is coming up.

Jubby

With the pay rise no matter how much you manage to get will you improve on your (all drivers not you personally) customer service skills, and learn how to speak to people, operate the low floor buses when needed not having to ask or sometimes demand, etc

I will wait and see.

Jubby

Im a driver for First,I also worked for Telewest,Siemens,BT and Insight in the past in customer services so i have plenty of customer service skills. I know how to talk to people and defuse 'situations'.

I also operate the kneeling function on the buses when i feel it is necessary or when asked. For example old people or people with prams and very rarely do i get a thank you.

Regarding the issue of pay,i do not think that pay is to bad (after you have done four years service) but i have been doing the job 1 year and people who start with the company at the moment get a £500 bonus after a year which means i will earn less than them in the first year,that is my personal gripe with the company.

Also the man management skills of the company is appauling, i have only been talked to by the manager once in the last year and that was being accused of something that i never did!!

You are basically there to drive and thats it,no appraisals,feed back on performance or career progression plans etc. As one old driver on the forum used to say you are just a number.

But after all that i have said,i actually love the job you get to meet people who are generally nice,im not stuck in a office like i used to be and i get out and about. Its just a shame there is a stigmer attached to being a bus driver and some people have no respect for you nowadays.

Originally posted by unners
Im a driver for First,I also worked for Telewest,Siemens,BT and Insight in the past in customer services so i have plenty of customer service skills. I know how to talk to people and defuse 'situations'.

I also operate the kneeling function on the buses when i feel it is necessary or when asked. For example old people or people with prams and very rarely do i get a thank you.

Regarding the issue of pay,i do not think that pay is to bad (after you have done four years service) but i have been doing the job 1 year and people who start with the company at the moment get a £500 bonus after a year which means i will earn less than them in the first year,that is my personal gripe with the company.

Also the man management skills of the company is appauling, i have only been talked to by the manager once in the last year and that was being accused of something that i never did!!

You are basically there to drive and thats it,no appraisals,feed back on performance or career progression plans etc. As one old driver on the forum used to say you are just a number.

But after all that i have said,i actually love the job you get to meet people who are generally nice,im not stuck in a office like i used to be and i get out and about. Its just a shame there is a stigmer attached to being a bus driver and some people have no respect for you nowadays.

Glad to hear you are one of the nice drivers. In fact all the first drivers that post on here on the nice ones who do care for the customers.

It was nice to see that the first person who posted about the strike was a bus driver informing us and not someone moaning about it.

I know its the Union to blame re the amount of notice not the drivers.

Keep up the good work and switch to the 48 route we need all the nice drivers as they are virtully none on that route.

Jubby

Originally posted by jubby
Keep up the good work and switch to the 48 route we need all the nice drivers as they are virtully none on that route.

Jubby


I did 48's for 2 years,and its mainly the passengers on that route that give the drivers the hump

Originally posted by jubby
Thats all well and good until about 6pm for a lot of these services Terrier def. finish about 6pm the 49/49A does anyway. Also what about Sunday? and BH as August BH is coming up.

Jubby

Very true, but should get people to work and back.

Most of the Stagecoach buses do run later, as do the Stagecoach trams, and all the train companies.

Odd other obscure ones run late such as the Aston 253 and TM Travel 89.

I believe the Yorkshire Terrier buses on route 52 run until about 9:30pm.

Originally posted by uncleheed
I did 48's for 2 years,and its mainly the passengers on that route that give the drivers the hump

That'll be the Shiregreen end then.

We at the Blackstock Road end are nicer even if on a Sunday morning they are only 1 every hour (on the timetable anyway)

Typical scene by a 48 driver - your in town wanting to go home a 47 comes with a 48 behind, the 48 will go round the 47 and drive off. You phone up first to complain they state why didn't you get the 47. Answer becuase the 47 DOESN'T go on Blackstock Road.

Why do 48 drivers asume you are getting off the bus before Newfield shops?

Jubby

Originally posted by Andy C
Very true, but should get people to work and back.

.

Not if you finish after 6pm they won't. I finish at 8pm all next week.

it sounds great when you work it out like that doesn't it. £400+, more than you got, so how dare they strike.

The fact is the cost of living has risen by greater than that amount in the last year, so they are simply fighting to stay at the same level in this case.
£400 a year payrise is pitiful. The fact that your job is even worse is no reason to drag bus drivers down with you.

Anyway, this doesn't sound like greed to me. Holding out for 30% like the fireservice did I might put down to greed. It all depends really doesn't it. I asked for and got a 30% payrise this year, I wasn't going to go one strike for it... But it comes to a little more than £400 anyway. And that wasn't greed either, I based it on market value and the salaries of colleagues doing a similer job.

Originally posted by Cyclone
it sounds great when you work it out like that doesn't it. £400+, more than you got, so how dare they strike.

The fact is the cost of living has risen by greater than that amount in the last year, so they are simply fighting to stay at the same level in this case.
£400 a year payrise is pitiful. The fact that your job is even worse is no reason to drag bus drivers down with you.

Anyway, this doesn't sound like greed to me. Holding out for 30% like the fireservice did I might put down to greed. It all depends really doesn't it. I asked for and got a 30% payrise this year, I wasn't going to go one strike for it... But it comes to a little more than £400 anyway. And that wasn't greed either, I based it on market value and the salaries of colleagues doing a similer job.

Remember they get other perk as well

Like a bus pass for them and their partner work about a grand a year - it costs me £43 a month for mine which I still have to pay if they strike, so it costs me twice. Once for the pass in the first place and second for the taxi to get me to work, which will cost me a hours wage to pay for.

Like I've said its in line with inflation, and its the customers who pay their wages who suffer.

I don't come back with we don't pay their wages as a first driver has already said on this forum before as how do first get their money - though fares of course.

Jubby

24p!!.........And First wonder why its so difficult to recruit new drivers...

Ok, let me try and explain what I was trying to say in earlier posts but perhaps wasn't quite clear enough.

The drivers have basically four cases for a strike:

Legal case - I assume that they have conducted all required ballots etc.

Ecconomic case - If the supply of labour is not meeting demand then the price of labour (wages) should be increased.

Moral case 1 (Drivers V Firstbus) - As First are making good profits on their South Yorkshire services, as the result of a near monopoly, then the drivers are entitled to a better pay award.

Moral Case 2 (Drivers V Passengers) - It is on this fourth and final case that I believe the drivers fall down. I would suggest that to cause serious inconvenience to a whole county in persuit of personal financial gain you need to prove you are a pretty deserving cause. It is for this reason that I pointed out that many passengers are on lower incomes than the bus drivers and that many (though not all) drivers seem to waste money on cigarettes. In this context I believe the cigarette comment was justified.

Secondly is the fact that passengers will suffer even though they have no control at all over what pay drivers get. We are the meat in the sandwhich here caught between the company and the drivers.

point number 4 is not a point. The drivers do not have to consider the public, it's 1st group who provide the service, it their inaction that will cause a loss of service to the public.

jubby, I don't know what you think inflation is, but it's a damn sight higher than 1.5% or whatever they were offered.

so what about the perks, all jobs come with perks. I'm just finishing £28 worth of dinner in a £90/night hotel. A perk, maybe, although i'd rather be at home eating my own food. Would you have them accept a pitiful payrise every year until they are on the minimum wage, simply because they get 1 perk? Or maybe it's more to do with the fact that you'd rather not be inconvenienced even if it means every bus driver in the county gets screwed over by 1st?

Originally posted by Cyclone
I'm just finishing £28 worth of dinner in a £90/night hotel.

Have they raised the maximum allowance from £25 then? I didn't know, must check the intranet. :D

Like any other Job you get good bus drivers and bad bus drivers.
I worked in residential care for many years and a big part of my job was taking people with Special Needs around the city on public transport. Some bus drivers were absolute stars.
One particuler one helped me deal with someone who was having a pretty bad Epilepic fit. He parked the bus up on Ellesmere road and let me get on with dealing with the situation. Told all the passengers what was happening and asked them to remain quite untill everything was sorted. Talked to the other traffic about what was happening and asked for understanding as we were blocking the road.
Of course there are the other ones who find it to much effort to get out of the cab and pull down the wheelchair ramp. Gits.
When you think about the amount of abuse these people take on a day in day out basis they have my full support.
It's is going to bugger my business when it happens as no one will come to the gigs I putting on but sod it.
Good luck.

Originally posted by jubby
Remember they get other perk as well

Like a bus pass for them and their partner work about a grand a year - it costs me £43 a month for mine which I still have to pay if they strike, so it costs me twice. Once for the pass in the first place and second for the taxi to get me to work, which will cost me a hours wage to pay for.

Like I've said its in line with inflation, and its the customers who pay their wages who suffer.

I don't come back with we don't pay their wages as a first driver has already said on this forum before as how do first get their money - though fares of course.

Jubby

The only time i ever use my pass on is on the Supertram about once a month,so that saves the cost of a day saver @ £2.70 a month or £32.40 per year. The rest of the time i walk to work and use the car for Shopping etc. And as for my Partner she works at East Midlands Airport so pass i no use and wont get on a bus in a million years!! And you have to be married/living together to get the pass.

So for me i would prefer to have a grand pay rise instead of the pass.

Originally posted by unners
The only time i ever use my pass on is on the Supertram about once a month,so that saves the cost of a day saver @ £2.70 a month or £32.40 per year. The rest of the time i walk to work and use the car for Shopping etc. And as for my Partner she works at East Midlands Airport so pass i no use and wont get on a bus in a million years!! And you have to be married/living together to get the pass.

So for me i would prefer to have a grand pay rise instead of the pass.
Sorry by saying partner I meant as living as though you were married.

How you use your perk is up to you it is still a benifit as deatiled in yuor contract. Telewest offer free services if you work for them and I'm sure not everyone uses them who do.

Still didn't take my point that I who pay towards your wages suffers so I can help pay you more. I lose every time as fares go up, and during the strike I have to get to work via other more expensive means while still paying for a service I can't use.

jubby

Originally posted by Cyclone
point number 4 is not a point. The drivers do not have to consider the public, it's 1st group who provide the service, it their inaction that will cause a loss of service to the public.

Or maybe it's more to do with the fact that you'd rather not be inconvenienced even if it means every bus driver in the county gets screwed over by 1st?

I'm sorry but this is incorect. If there is a strike it will be because the drivers made that decision. They may not like the choice on offer but they still do have a choice.

Of course i don't want to be inconvenienced. I suppose I am being just as selfish as the drivers. The difference is that I admit it. I am simply pointin out that there are not two sides in this dispute but three; the third being passengers. Any debate about the rights and wrongs of a bus strike has to acknowledge this fact. To pretent it is only a dispute between drivers and bus company is not correct.

you're wrong Sid, the drivers are employed by First Group, it is with them they sign a contract, not the passengers. When they are driving the buses they establish a contract with the customers (to take them where they are meant to go, provide polite service etc), but it is only at that point. They are employees of the company which is contracted to provide the service, if the service is not provided, it is the company that is responsible.

Of course it's sensible from a tactical point of view for the drivers to try to ensure that there is as much support for them as possible from passengers, but it is by no means essential for them to do so.

Originally posted by commie pig
you're wrong Sid, the drivers are employed by First Group, it is with them they sign a contract, not the passengers. When they are driving the buses they establish a contract with the customers (to take them where they are meant to go, provide polite service etc), but it is only at that point.

They fail on this point with customer contract esp polite service:mad:

depends on your definition of polite really - always a tricky one. for me, as long as they aint telling me to 'gimme the right change or f. off my bus you commie pig', then thats politce enough for me :)

So is the strike still definitely going ahead then? If so, when exactly are they striking from?

It looks like its happening.

We got a Email from our building manager today saying they were out from Tuesday and asking if its going to stop anyone getting to work.

If it goes ahead it's from Midnight Monday night/Tuesday morning.

It was in Star tonight that First have made the drivers an improved offer, and they vote tomorrow on whether to accept it or not.

are they really going to on stike next week? i am worrying cos i havn't got my own car and still replying on bus to get to work. :confused: :confused:

topic already done :)


here (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13828 )

Threads merged. Thanks

We have had an improved offer of 30p over the next 2 years,BUT,it will not be backdated to 1st April,it will run from 1st August.
This means if it is accepted,(which it won't be),on a bare 39 hour week,each driver will be losing out on around £200.Us who do overtime will be missing out on even more.
The ballot on the new deal is today(Friday),I
will do my best to keep you all informed on what is happening.

Originally posted by commie pig
depends on your definition of polite really - always a tricky one. for me, as long as they aint telling me to 'gimme the right change or f. off my bus you commie pig', then thats politce enough for me :)

A Simple "Please" and "Thank you" would be nice. Simple manners thaught to me and what I teach my children.

My daughter is three today and says please and thank you, she has done for about 9 months. If she can manage it a fully grown bus driver can manage it.

Jubby

I am glad to hear that your little daughter is being brought up to have good manners unhappily a lot of parents these days do either not have the time or inclination to do likewise.
I have been a bus driver for over thirty years now and I have always found the best attitude to adopt is that if you give respect you will receive respect.
In the main I have found that the passengers in general are very understanding and tolerant of the difficulties etc that we experience in our work.

Originally posted by d71146
I am glad to hear that your little daughter is being brought up to have good manners unhappily a lot of parents these days do either not have the time or inclination to do likewise.
I have been a bus driver for over thirty years now and I have always found the best attitude to adopt is that if you give respect you will receive respect.
In the main I have found that the passengers in general are very understanding and tolerant of the difficulties etc that we experience in our work.

I agree to get respect you have to give to recive.

I don't know how people don't have the time, she has learnt from us and her older siblings, more than us sitting down with her.

Kids learn from their evironment so if they hear politness they will start to use it, if they hear foul langurange then they will use it. You don't need to teach it, just use it your everyday lives more around the children and they will use it.

Me and my wife aren't angels we swear and stuff but not near the kids, or where it might offend.

It works both way on the buses, give what you recive. I'm sure the polite drivers are abused less than the rude ones. If a driver is going to be atacked that will happen no matter how nice they are, but it can be reduced if they are nicer adn don't agrivate the situation as I've seen drivers do so often. Again not caring about the passengers on the bus as the driver get of the bus to confront the youth. Just drive on and radio it in.

Gawwwd....

most of their drivers are right miserable gits!
they growl at ya if getting on their bus!
(& love chuckleing at ya, as your'e running to catch bus & drive straight passed ya!


they will need to be paying us to get on buses!

ohhh - I speak so controversially!!!!!!!!

"how dare i."
- some mainline bus driver gona lynch me now!!!!

angel

xxx

In any industry (buses are no exeption) there are three interest groups:

Shareholders
Employees
Customers

All I am doing is making the case for the last of these, just as the drivers are making the case for employees.

Yeah but while the buses are on strike we, the customers are left stranded unless we're on a route serviced by another bus company such as Yorkshire Terrier, Andrews et al :loopy:

Don't get me wrong I sympathise with their reasons for striking, I'm just being selfishly annoyed at the inconvenience the bus strike will cause me.

hopefully the strike will be avoided.we have been balloted today but that will be rejected,so meetings should be held over the weekend and an improved offer may get passed on.

Like I said,I will pass on any info as soon I get it

Are there any Yorkshire terriers that go near Firth Park/Shiregreen? I'm just concerned as to how my boyfriend is going to get to work in a morning!

Originally posted by caprice
Are there any Yorkshire terriers that go near Firth Park/Shiregreen? I'm just concerned as to how my boyfriend is going to get to work in a morning!

Depends what time he wants a bus

the 73 and 37 run to meadowhall but dont start while about 7

He needs to get to town for about 8am, 8.15 at the latest as he'd then have to catch the tram...

If we can't find him a route, he'll simply have to move in at my house while they're striking, as we have both the 120 and the 123, not to mention the tram, which would be useful for him! My mum will be pleased lol

Originally posted by Abdul
Amongst the lowest paid drivers in the country, but the expensive fares are an outrage. Where's all the money going? Do I need to ask that question?

Wise words :)

The drivers are entitled to a good wage for the job they do (apart from the ones who never answer when you say hi or cheers).

But First as a compagny is pretty shhhhhh, buses or trains First is right bad.

I remember the days as a child of 2p bus fares. what are the council doing?

Originally posted by caprice
Are there any Yorkshire terriers that go near Firth Park/Shiregreen? I'm just concerned as to how my boyfriend is going to get to work in a morning!

There is the 72, it is meant to be every 30 mins, but last time there was a strike they were more frequent.

The strike is going to start on Tuesday according to Calendar News!!!

Good on them - got my support 101%

Originally posted by qazitory
The strike is going to start on Tuesday according to Calendar News!!!

and also their website.

I can remember the childrens fare being 5p. I'm only 21 years old so that's how much it's gone up in under 20 years since I'm not going to remember how much it was when I was a baby.

I can remember it being a 90p for a First Mainline bus from my house to town 5 years ago, it's now £1.40. I wouldn't mind increased fares in return for a better service, but I'd rather take the car & pay for the parking & petrol.

I was refused to be allowed on the bus a couple of years because I had a note. Since the driver had packed his bulk cash away as it was the last journey of his shift I wasn't allowed on because he couldn't supply me with change. I emailed a complaint to the First Mainline regarding this, as I found it appauling from a customer service point of view. I never did get a reply.

On a positive note however, a bus driver waited for my friend & I a few weeks ago to run for the bus. We thought we had missed it so started to walk off & it came.

I am just wondering what will happen to people who buy monthly tickets etc. Will we be entitled to a part refund?

I am facing over an hour an a halfs walk to get to work while the busses are on strike as there are no other operators near by and I definitely can't afford a taxi. Excellent way of hurting First this is isn't it, no wages to pay and already sold a large number of tickets in the form of monthly passes.

In these circumstances I have to ask is striking really the best way to get a point accross?? I don't think so. The people it hurts most are the passengers and the drivers themselves, as they wont be getting paid.

I don't claim to know all the facts but I think the wage actually isn't too bad, considering all the training is provided (I think) and no previous qualifications are needed (again, I think). Some people who spend an extra 5/6 years in education will leave and start in a job not earning as much as bus drivers do!

Maybe part of the problem with this country at the moment is that so many people seem so compeletly selfish... what ever happened to supporting people so that they could get a fair wage. If it wasn't for people going on strike this country would be in a much worse state than it is now, and workers would have fewer rights and privilages. If we don't support people who go on strike, we can't complain ourselves if we are treated unfairly at work.

Originally posted by march
I am just wondering what will happen to people who buy monthly tickets etc. Will we be entitled to a part refund?

I am facing over an hour an a halfs walk to get to work while the busses are on strike as there are no other operators near by and I definitely can't afford a taxi. Excellent way of hurting First this is isn't it, no wages to pay and already sold a large number of tickets in the form of monthly passes.



Don't know about First passes but the SYPTE passes its a case of tough. I can see their point of view as it's not the SYPTE's fault they are striking and you have the ability to use it on other compaines and on the tram and train. I know that is only useful if they are near buy, but not SYPTE's fault. This is why i said the strike hits me twice, the money I've paid out and then the taxi to get me to work. My employer like many other's state in their contract that it is your responsilbilty how you get to work. My employers were good in promptly letting us know about the strike for those who don't buy a newspaper or watch the news, etc.

I think First at least should add the days onto the end date of you pass - for instance they strike 3 days you get an extra 3 days added to your pass. It expires on the 1st you can use it to 4th. Don't know if they do this though.

Jubby

Originally posted by jessycar
and also their website.

I can remember the childrens fare being 5p. I'm only 21 years old so that's how much it's gone up in under 20 years since I'm not going to remember how much it was when I was a baby.

5p? Heh, I remember when it was 2p for kids and 5p for adults for half the route, or 10p for the full journey!

"First" are just another example of how a local bus service is taken over by a national company with national standards imposed which simply don't work out. My dad was a driver with SYT for years and I'm sure he's glad he's now retired.

Originally posted by alchresearch
5p? Heh, I remember when it was 2p for kids and 5p for adults for half the route, or 10p for the full journey!

"First" are just another example of how a local bus service is taken over by a national company with national standards imposed which simply don't work out. My dad was a driver with SYT for years and I'm sure he's glad he's now retired.

ur 10 years older than me tho ;)

Where abouts in Woodhouse did u live?

I can remember when it was 2p as well. It was owned by SCC wasn't it? or at least subsidised by them.

Anyone have a update.

I have been told it's off and also that's it might be on but starting Tuesday.

Travel line don't have a clue as First haven't informed them yet, and probaly won't until Monday becuase of the weekend they can't update the notes part on their systems.

Jubby:thumbsup:

According to last night's Star it's still on for Tuesday.

As of Saturday evening the strike will start TUESDAY MORNING unless there has been any movement today Sunday

Is the strike just tomorrow or for the rest of the week??

I asked the driver this morning and he said they didn't know how long it's going to last for!

The strike was announced as from midnight tonight until further notice.

I am a bus driver and still not 100% sure what is happening.
I heard there is a last ditch meeting today to stop the strike.Will let you know as soon as i do

We had an e-mail round work with an Excel sheet attached from the Transport Executive detailing which services *may* be affected if the strike goes ahead. If anyone's interested in it, I'll see if I can find a link to it/post it here.

Seems an odd time to go on strike though - summer holidays when all the roads are quieter so anyone switching to a car for the day won't notice any inconvenience....

Yeah, but the buses are full oh kids and their parents at the moment.

hiya, is it just the First busses that are on strike or is everthing, ie. yorkshire terrior rural link busses (61 & 62)

thanx

Just been on Radio Sheffield that strike is definitely on.

The First propaganda machine hs now gone into overdrive.
Just seen the Calender news headlines(12.55),and First have put out the lie that all bus drivers are on £7.53 per hour.

THIS IS TOTAL RUBBISH

I have now been a bus driver for two years and I still only get paid £5.85 per hour.You have to work 4 years to get to the £7+ rate.

But in last years pay negotiations,the rate progression period was to be dropped by six months every year.Now in this years talks,First haven't just moved the goalposts,but taken them of the pitch altogether.
We are now told we can have 30p per hour,NOT backdated to April 1st,(at a cost of at least £200 per driver)And we will all be on £8.10 an hour in 2006.That means the progression rate for me,and every other driver who started in 2002 will go back up to 4 years again.
This also gives us with two years service another gripe.Anyone who starts now goes onto the top rate at the same time as me,Gets a £500 bonus after 12 months,(i didn't),lso gets £10 per week paid into a credit union account,withdrawable after 12 months(I pay my own money in),plus if they have a PCV license already,thats another £500 in the bank for them.

Is it any wonder I am after another job?

I really hope First get into serious bother with the traffic commissioner over the strike.Again a thousand apologies to the bus travelling public,but i hope you can see,us drivers with 1-3 years service in,have even bigger gripes with the firm than the long service men.

What great news!! I can't wait to make a 1.5 hour walk to work or spend my first 2 hours money on a taxi tomorrow. Call me selfish if you like but I think it is totally the wrong way to go about things in this case. This is going to effect so many people and cost them a lot of money that many don't have. I don't have the answer but there must be a better way for them to negotiate.

Originally posted by steelcitybab
hiya, is it just the First busses that are on strike or is everthing, ie. yorkshire terrior rural link busses (61 & 62)

thanx

Only bus services operated by FIRST from depots in South Yorkshire are affected.

Therefore buses operated by Yorkshire Terrier, Stagecoach, TM Travel, Aston Buses, Barnsley & District, Yorkshire Traction, Arriva, Andrews etc are not affected (although they are likely to be much busier than normal of course).

Also First bus route X18 will still operate, as operates out of a depot in Stoke on Trent.

Also no train or tram services are affected.

From a customer's point of view all this debate about who is to blame (First or drivers) is a total irrelevence.

All customers care about is whether or not the Firstbus is the best option for travel compared to rival operators, and in the wider sense whether or not public transport generally is the better option compared to the car.

I would suggest that a strike is the right way to go about loosing custom and in the long term this means job losses for drivers. Have the trade unions learned nothing from history such as the steel strike of 1980?

Originally posted by hotphil

Seems an odd time to go on strike though - summer holidays when all the roads are quieter so anyone switching to a car for the day won't notice any inconvenience....

So are you saying that the whole point of the strike is inconvenience the public rather than put pressure on the employers?

I suppose it's a little like how the miners always used to go on strike in mid winter never in the summer. Thankfully Mrs Thatcher stood up to that bolshy lot and beat them. I haven't noticed too many coal strikes since 1985.

By the way, I was on a bus the other day and two bus drivers were taliking at the front (one of them smoking on the bus). They were discussing the strike and then went on to start having a good laugh at passengers. They seemed to find it very funny when people run for buses and don't catch them or when buses don't turn up and leave people waiting at stops, or when people are looking away when their bus comes and it goes stright past them. If this sort of attitute is typical of bus drivers as a whole then just how much sympathy do they deserve from the public?

I bet you haven't noticed that there isn't a coal mining industry anymore either.
There was another coal miners strike in 1992 after Micheal Heseletine decided to shut the remaining coal mines down or privatise them.
20 years on there are still massive social problems that can be attributed to the closure of the mines and the resulting povety.

When are the bus strikes going to end - in your opinion?

Originally posted by carcrash
I bet you haven't noticed that there isn't a coal mining industry anymore either.
There was another coal miners strike in 1992 after Micheal Heseletine decided to shut the remaining coal mines down or privatise them.
20 years on there are still massive social problems that can be attributed to the closure of the mines and the resulting povety.

maybe, but there have been no power cuts and blackout like there were in the 1970s. There are a lot more electricity consumers than ever there were coal miner. Just like there are a lot more passengers than bus drivers.

Originally posted by slimsid2000
By the way, I was on a bus the other day and two bus drivers were taliking at the front (one of them smoking on the bus). They were discussing the strike and then went on to start having a good laugh at passengers. They seemed to find it very funny when people run for buses and don't catch them or when buses don't turn up and leave people waiting at stops, or when people are looking away when their bus comes and it goes stright past them. If this sort of attitute is typical of bus drivers as a whole then just how much sympathy do they deserve from the public?

Did you get run over by a bus once or something?? Exactly what buses do you catch, because i haven't seen a bus driver smoking in about 10 years. Did your lass cheat on you with a bus driver or something???? :D

Write or contact them via their website and support the working man.

http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/yorkhumber/southyorkshire/home/

Originally posted by march
What great news!! I can't wait to make a 1.5 hour walk to work or spend my first 2 hours money on a taxi tomorrow. Call me selfish if you like but I think it is totally the wrong way to go about things in this case. This is going to effect so many people and cost them a lot of money that many don't have. I don't have the answer but there must be a better way for them to negotiate.

If you are so upset about it, and think the wages First drivers get paid are so great, why don't you give up your job and become a bus driver? They are desperately short of drivers at the moment... and the low wage is part of the reason why!

Originally posted by slimsid2000
I suppose it's a little like how the miners always used to go on strike in mid winter never in the summer. Thankfully Mrs Thatcher stood up to that bolshy lot and beat them. I haven't noticed too many coal strikes since 1985.
Hmm. Sounds if you would support the CBI's view that we should all work to 70 before we get a state pension as well!

Originally posted by slimsid2000
All customers care about is whether or not the Firstbus is the best option for travel compared to rival operators
That's all very well if there is a rival operator running the route you need to use, but in many places in Sheffield there is no alternative to First, particularly later into the evenings (unless you count taxis).

Wibblescabs will no doubt be working overtime tomorrow ferrying people about!!

Well this is when the much envied number 60 service to Fulwood disappears. There is no alternative service. It's going to be nice and quiet :)

Originally posted by Patchy
If you are so upset about it, and think the wages First drivers get paid are so great, why don't you give up your job and become a bus driver? They are desperately short of drivers at the moment... and the low wage is part of the reason why!

I chose to go to University and my current job is a year long placement. I don't think I would have got much relevant experience for my degree driving a bus. I fully expect to earn less than I would driving a bus when I leave Uni and get my first job. However I hope the extra 6 years I have spent in education will help me progress until I end up in the job I want with a decent wage.

This will probably come across wrong but it really annoys me when peolple who take an unskilled (I don't mean that in offensive way, but do you have to train for 6 years to be a bus driver) job starting complaining about poor wage when it is equal if not higher than others in similar professions.

I release most people take the view that they didn't have a chance to further their education but this is incorrect. I aren't particularly clever or from a privelaged background but hard work and knowing what you want to achieve gets you a long way.

Many drivers are saying they are striking as it isn't fair people starting after them are getting a better deal. Does this mean those who did start later won't be on strike?

I contacted them not long ago about becoming a new driver for them, and the pay was about £5.65 per hour or something like that. So the pay for new drivers still seems to be bad, considering the stress of the job and the many grumbling and unpleasant passengers.

Originally posted by march
I chose to go to University and my current job is a year long placement. I don't think I would have got much relevant experience for my degree driving a bus. I fully expect to earn less than I would driving a bus when I leave Uni and get my first job. However I hope the extra 6 years I have spent in education will help me progress until I end up in the job I want with a decent wage.

This will probably come across wrong but it really annoys me when peolple who take an unskilled (I don't mean that in offensive way, but do you have to train for 6 years to be a bus driver) job starting complaining about poor wage when it is equal if not higher than others in similar professions.

I release most people take the view that they didn't have a chance to further their education but this is incorrect. I aren't particularly clever or from a privelaged background but hard work and knowing what you want to achieve gets you a long way.

Many drivers are saying they are striking as it isn't fair people starting after them are getting a better deal. Does this mean those who did start later won't be on strike?

I'm not sure you can class bus driving as unskilled!

Firstly of course you have to have qualified and got a PSV licence, the job is a safety critical one responsible for all the passengers safety, you need to be fully focus and conentrating, you have to deal with people and there is cash handling and I presume associated admin.

Perhaps unskilled was the wrong word, but the point I was making was you can probably get a job without any previous qualifications and the get training though the employer. Lots of jobs get classed as unskilled these days when I wouldn't consider them to be. Bank Clerk is another one, there is a lot of responsabilty in that job but they are paid about the same as shop assistants now. Unskilled really should mean something like my old job where I stuck labels on bottles for £3.50 an hour but unless you need previous qualifications for a job it seems to be called unskilled these days.

Originally posted by march
Perhaps unskilled was the wrong word, but the point I was making was you can probably get a job without any previous qualifications and the get training though the employer. Lots of jobs get classed as unskilled these days when I wouldn't consider them to be. Bank Clerk is another one, there is a lot of responsabilty in that job but they are paid about the same as shop assistants now. Unskilled really should mean something like my old job where I stuck labels on bottles for £3.50 an hour but unless you need previous qualifications for a job it seems to be called unskilled these days.

Another job I had was at a well know PC shop. Was paid minimum wage and had to know the answer to every possible question about PCs, had to take the flack when the crappy stuff they sold didn't work plus face public humiliation if personal sales targets weren't met. Now for me that was a part-time job but it wasn't for many others, it was how they made a living. People were just grateful they weren't on the dole.

YOUR ALL BIG N FAT ANYWAY, FROM A 13 YEAR OLD BITCH, U ALWAYS ASK ME FOR MY I.D

Originally posted by wiseguy
YOUR ALL BIG N FAT ANYWAY, FROM A 13 YEAR OLD BITCH, U ALWAYS ASK ME FOR MY I.D

Yet another very intelligent comment !!!!!

WE ALL LIKE TO TAKE THE **** BUT AM 45 AM NOT A KID

Originally posted by wiseguy
WE ALL LIKE TO TAKE THE **** BUT AM 45 AM NOT A KID

WOW now I am really impressed !!!!

ss2k, I cannot believe that you liken this to the miners strikes, nor that you actually have any understanding of the economical damage Thatcher caused.
If you cannot strike, you have nothing to negotiate with. It's like war being merely an extension of politics, if a state had no army, or couldn't use it for legal reasons. Why listen to them, they can't do anything.

And why is everyone wittering on about the wage. That's not what it's about, its about the % increase offered for this year. Not the overall amount.

how long is this strike going to last?? Is there no buses running at all today????

The strike is supposed to be indefinate.
Privatisation was supposed to increase competition and we've ended up with a virtual private local monopoly.
First should be forced to sell off half their fleet and routes to promote competition. This would have the following advantages
1) There would be other companies providing a service in times of dispute
2) Drivers would be able to consider another employer
3) First might settle the dispute if they thought they might lose customers permanently to a rival operator who paid their staff better rates and therefore continued operating
For those people who think it's an easy job, the threat of assault is never far away (with or without weapons) or that of robbery (many of which don't make the local press) No wonder some drivers are grumpy

It looks as though at least one bus driver didn't wait for the strike but began his own unofficial work to rule before.

Aparently a driver in Rotherham refesed to operate a ramp for a disabled passenger with the words "I'm not paid for that".

No doubt this man is currently on strike claiming he deserves more pay. Does he?

In 1993 SYT was privatised as Mainline. Its share were sold to staff (mostly drivers) for a noninal price of around £500 each. There was a condition attached that they could not sell out for a minimum of 5 years.

In 1998 (at the first available opportunity) the drivers sold the company to Firstbus. They made a good return on their investment, some pocketing over £30,000.

In 1999 (less than 12 months after they sold) the drivers went on strike for higher pay.

In 2003 they drivers went on strike again.

Now in 2004, (only a year later) they are on strike again.

I can't help wondering why, if First are such a bad employer, did they sell to them in the first place.

Originally posted by slimsid2000
It looks as though at least one bus driver didn't wait for the strike but began his own unofficial work to rule before.

Aparently a driver in Rotherham refesed to operate a ramp for a disabled passenger with the words "I'm not paid for that".

No doubt this man is currently on strike claiming he deserves more pay. Does he?

IMO no... In fact he should be up for a rather large telling off at least for refusing to let a disabled passenger on his bus, I'm sure PT will agree with me on this as well, as she always fights for the rights of us disabled folk, and good on her for doing so.

Originally posted by slimsid2000
In 1993 SYT was privatised as Mainline. Its share were sold to staff (mostly drivers) for a noninal price of around £500 each. There was a condition attached that they could not sell out for a minimum of 5 years.

In 1998 (at the first available opportunity) the drivers sold the company to Firstbus. They made a good return on their investment, some pocketing over £30,000.

In 1999 (less than 12 months after they sold) the drivers went on strike for higher pay.

In 2003 they drivers went on strike again.

Now in 2004, (only a year later) they are on strike again.

I can't help wondering why, if First are such a bad employer, did they sell to them in the first place.

A brief correction of facts.

Not all drivers were working for first back in 1998(quite alot infact)

When are they gonna end? guesses anyone? - are they meeting again today for more talks?

Anyone know how things are looking out on the streets at the mo? Are there long queues for the buses that are running?

I got train in from Dore this morning OK, but am getting TM Travel's 293 bus back to Bradway tonight!

Just to agree with Cyclone's opinion which to my knowledge is perfectly correct and even the 30k figure is way,way over what staff actually got except for the management grades I understand.

did some of the posts get deleted?

I don't mind, but something to explain what's happened would be nice, otherwise I start to think i'm going senile.

You have my support. Good luck and lets make a stance against these people

Originally posted by Cyclone
did some of the posts get deleted?

I don't mind, but something to explain what's happened would be nice, otherwise I start to think i'm going senile.

Mod: you're losing it ;) Only kidding. They were split off into a thread with lots of bus driver rants that you will find here. (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?postid=141038#post141038)

Sorry for the delay in letting you know... The laptop battery went flat! :roll:

I have to say that the bus drivers can stay on strike as long as they like. Roads were nice and quiet yesterday and today.
No buses clogging them up belching out fumes.

all the bus driver should go back to work as they not going to get any more money from first mainline

I heard on the radio this morning that a lot of shop owners are being seriously effected by this strike. A lot of people are staying at home as they can't or don't want to risk getting a bus. Town was dead yesterday and some of the market stall owners are saying that if this strike carries on, they can't afford their mortgages or to feed their kids.

I expect lots more are effected too, not just shops but pubs owners, restaurants etc. Also a lot of people can't get home are having to pay for taxi's when they can't afford it, but also can't afford to not go to work and not get paid.

Maybe some of the bus drivers should use their skills to become taxi drivers, the taxi drivers are raking it in at the moment.

the shop owners should get on at first then, cos it's their meanness that is the cause of the strike.

I havent seen a single first bus going past (& my office looks out onto a main bus route) - which would rather oindicate that the strike has massive support amongst the drivers - and you just dont get that any more unless they are totally behind a strike, which should tell you something./ Don't forget, the drivers have families and mouths to feed as well, they are aware of the effect that strike action has upon people.

Originally posted by skinner
I have to say that the bus drivers can stay on strike as long as they like. Roads were nice and quiet yesterday and today.
No buses clogging them up belching out fumes.


How many people having to walk to work have you offered a lift to ? Or have you just passed them by with a big smirk on your face.


Oh !...Location - Fulwood. Say no more.

Originally posted by skinner
I have to say that the bus drivers can stay on strike as long as they like. Roads were nice and quiet yesterday and today.
No buses clogging them up belching out fumes.

Well actually there were more cars on the road and the traffic was very slow in my area. Some people who get buses normally and do have a car, have got the car out. More cars = more pollution. We should be encouraging people to get buses not use their cars.
Buses don't generally clog up roads, there are bus lanes, its cars that clog up the roads!

Originally posted by Foxxx
Some people who get buses normally and do have a car, have got the car out.

Yep. I had to :(

Originally posted by Foxxx
We should be encouraging people to get buses not use their cars. Buses don't generally clog up roads, there are bus lanes, its cars that clog up the roads!

Very true. Believe it or not, going home on the bus (via Wicker and Spital Hill) takes half the time it does by car (via Broad Lane / West Bar roundabout or even Netherthorpe and Rutland Road)

I support the need for a strike but not for too long eh? I work at the Hallamshire Hospital and we're getting a lot of older patients unable to get to the hospital to attend their appointments.

Originally posted by skinner
I have to say that the bus drivers can stay on strike as long as they like. Roads were nice and quiet yesterday and today.
No buses clogging them up belching out fumes.

I agree :thumbsup: My journey takes me 5 mins less into work.

People are making good points, like people missing appointments, business suffering, more cars on the road.... but doesn't that just show how important bus drivers are, and that we can't actually function without them? Maybe such an important job should be rewarded accordingly? :confused:

This is now the second year running that the traveling public of south Yorkshire have been shat upon from a great hight by the bus drivers of First (who no doubt feel they have been shat upon by their bosses).

So, if the strike ends on the drivers terms how long will it be before there is:

a) A fares increase
b) Another bus strike
c) A further fares increase

My guess is about 1 month, 12 months and 13 months respectively. Can anyone see a pattern developing?

On a more possitive note lets say thank you to the drivers of Yorkshire Terrier, and the drivers and conductors of supertram, without whom things would be even worse. Whatever our view of the strike I'm sure we can all agree on this point.

Originally posted by slimsid2000
This is now the second year running that the traveling public of south Yorkshire have been shat upon from a great hight by the bus drivers of First (who no doubt feel they have been shat upon by their bosses).

So, if the strike ends on the drivers terms how long will it be before there is:

a) A fares increase
b) Another bus strike
c) A further fares increase

My guess is about 1 month, 12 months and 13 months respectively. Can anyone see a pattern developing?

On a more possitive note lets say thank you to the drivers of Yorkshire Terrier, and the drivers and conductors of supertram, without whom things would be even worse. Whatever our view of the strike I'm sure we can all agree on this point.


It's rather obvious that a bus driver once asked you to show your pass.
Whatever one did to you,all drivers are now tarred with the same brush.
I would like to know how you would cope with an 8 hour shift behind the wheel,having to deal with numpty car drivers,idiot members of the public and the threat of assault for £5.85 an hour.

My guess is you wouldn't even make it out of Pond Street.

Originally posted by uncleheed
It's rather obvious that a bus driver once asked you to show your pass.
Whatever one did to you,all drivers are now tarred with the same brush.
I would like to know how you would cope with an 8 hour shift behind the wheel,having to deal with numpty car drivers,idiot members of the public and the threat of assault for £5.85 an hour.

My guess is you wouldn't even make it out of Pond Street.

you obviously hate being a bus driver so why do you do it??????

People here seem to thanking the drivers of the yorkshire terror buses for not going on strike as if the yorkshire terror drivers are some how "better" than the first drivers.

The only reason the yorkshire terror drivers arent striking aswell is because they don't have a union.

Also the YT drivers will be glad about the strikes because it means that when the first drivers get a pay increase the YT drivers will also get one because their bosses know they will bugger off the First.

makes sense dunnit........getting a pay rise without striking..can't fault'em

Originally posted by steelblade
People here seem to thanking the drivers of the yorkshire terror buses for not going on strike as if the yorkshire terror drivers are some how "better" than the first drivers.

The only reason the yorkshire terror drivers arent striking aswell is because they don't have a union.

Also the YT drivers will be glad about the strikes because it means that when the first drivers get a pay increase the YT drivers will also get one because their bosses know they will bugger off the First.

if only the first driver didn't have a union either. Then there would be less inconvenience all round.

Originally posted by steelblade
People here seem to thanking the drivers of the yorkshire terror buses for not going on strike as if the yorkshire terror drivers are some how "better" than the first drivers.

The only reason the yorkshire terror drivers arent striking aswell is because they don't have a union.

Also the YT drivers will be glad about the strikes because it means that when the first drivers get a pay increase the YT drivers will also get one because their bosses know they will bugger off the First.

It's Yorkshire TERRIER not Yorkshire Terror :lol:

D'oh, help! I'm turning into t020! Correcting people's spelling!

Originally posted by slimsid2000
if only the first driver didn't have a union either. Then there would be less inconvenience all round.
aye, especially for the bosses.

bloody unions, what have they ever done for us? except for half decent wages, health and safety legislation, a little bit of defence against bullying managers, equal opportunities legislation, etc etc.

The world would be so much better wihtout trades unions, hitlers germany and stalins russia didnt nede them ,so why should we!

Originally posted by slimsid2000


By the way, I was on a bus the other day and two bus drivers were taliking at the front (one of them smoking on the bus). They were discussing the strike and then went on to start having a good laugh at passengers. They seemed to find it very funny when people run for buses and don't catch them or when buses don't turn up and leave people waiting at stops, or when people are looking away when their bus comes and it goes stright past them. If this sort of attitute is typical of bus drivers as a whole then just how much sympathy do they deserve from the public?

This is your typical bus driver - to them its just a job, they don't care about the people who help finace their wages - the passengers

Originally posted by slimsid2000
It looks as though at least one bus driver didn't wait for the strike but began his own unofficial work to rule before.

Aparently a driver in Rotherham refesed to operate a ramp for a disabled passenger with the words "I'm not paid for that".

No doubt this man is currently on strike claiming he deserves more pay. Does he?

The only problem with his comment is he IS paid for that, wheater or not he agrees to doing that is tough. It's part of his job, if he doesn't like it then he knows where the door is. I'd direct him to the dole office but don't know where they are in Rotherham.

He sounds like a bigot so shouldn't be dealing with the public int he first place.

Jubby

My mate got busted for driving down the bus lane today... the police were parked up illegally in the bus stop when they pulled us over - in to the bus stop!

Once my mate had been given a lecture and a £30 quid fine we were sent on our way, just avoiding being hit by a bus when we were pulling away as it was stopping.

I'm sure there must be some law against police breaking the law to hand out bus lane violations.

well........... i get my travel pass, and i think it is £42 a month, the one where i can use trains trams and buses and all that crap..... all very good if ANY transport bar first came rouund my area....... i dont mind walking to work, i often find it clears my head from the night before.... but after i have worked a shift, i dont want to have to be walking home...... all fairness i could get a taxi, but why should i. it would cvost say £4/£5 not much i know, but work this out monthly and it comes out around £120

my second job, i dont like walking to town as i shud be able to get bus, now the 38/39 gets me there with 10 mins to spare, but if i catch 22 it will either get me there 25 mins early or 5 mins late............ i obviously opt for the 38/39 which generally does not turn up, it aggravates you, and if you report the problem, they send u a letter in post with an apology...... yeah tell that to the people i work with

buses that leave early also annoy me, im not talking about a minute, ive seen buses leave 5 mins early, perhaps this pay rise is going to help them buy better watches

abusive customers?? well im a bar supervisor in kingdom, we have some right abusive ones, and i can tell you the money is not as good as what you bus drivers do get, and the hours are a lot more unsociable.

the money your wanting??? well i got a generous pay rise of........... 2.5% (this was not at kingdom i may add) and no1 grumbled at that, we saw it was better than nothing. the next time i expect a pay rise? well at kingdom that wont happen but my other job, well it wont be till at least december...... but i have to work and maintain high levels of customer care to get this.

doont get me wrong, im not saying you dont deserve a raise, and i am fully supportive of people getting what they deserve to be paid, but do u have to strike indefinately?? i know it is a good method, but its not you that is losing out

and i do have to agree with jubby................ yes u do get perks, there is that with every job, and it is your choice on whether u do take them up or not, i personally get free entry to kingdom, which i do take up...... but i get a small percentage off in quite a few stores that are related to my other company, but i dont ever use it...... its all what u want


*rant over*

To be honest I was a bit grumpy when I realised the bus drivers were on strike but as I find the First bus drivers the most unfriendlist of all cities I have lived so far I hope (?) this could possibly help them to provide a service with a smile!

Plus point is my partner and I are getting lots of exercise now and I am starting to doubt whether I would use First or any other bus for that matter again as the walk is most enjoyable.

In winter I think it shall be Yorkshire Terrier for our family...

If you are friendly I will use you- if not, look to someone else to subsidise your wages!

Originally posted by Rich
It's Yorkshire TERRIER not Yorkshire Terror :lol:

D'oh, help! I'm turning into t020! Correcting people's spelling!

Rich I know they are terriers! it's my little joke, a rubbish one at that :D I like to call them Yorkshire Terrors or Yorkshire Terrorists.

I hope they stay on strike. The roads have been a pleasure to drive on - no dirty smog creating, slow moving obsticles in my way..

Hurrah for the strikers!

No empathy for people who can't get to work because they can't afford cars then?

Cars cause massively more congestion (and pollution, of course) than buses. If all the people who drove to work in huge cars on their own got the bus (or even did car share) then the roads would be a lot more pleasant to travel on!

I never use the busses if I can help it, mainly due to the attitude of most of the drivers.The rude ones spoil it for the few polite nice drivers I have encounterd (and thats not many).I stick to the tram or I walk. mainline is usually the last resort, so you can strike for me for as long as you want,spend your payrise on customer care classes and then prehaps the general public will not mind funding your payrise with a fare increase

It would certainly be nice if one of the drivers demands was that their payrise didn't effect ticket prices... maybe then they would get more support.... i know, dream on...

Originally posted by Internetowl
I hope they stay on strike. The roads have been a pleasure to drive on - no dirty smog creating, slow moving obsticles in my way..

Hurrah for the strikers!

Wostenholme Road was nose to tail from netheredge to washington road, and choked with fumes. A nice long line of single occupancy cars spewing out their dirty smog.

My uncle was saying in the pub last night that the Bus drivers have got their pay increase, but they've turned round and said they want it backdating to April!

If they'd said that in the first place during the original negotiations then fair enough and they'd have a leg to stand on, but to only come out and ask for it at this late stage is beyond daft IMO.

Originally posted by Internetowl
I hope they stay on strike. The roads have been a pleasure to drive on - no dirty smog creating, slow moving obsticles in my way..

Hurrah for the strikers!

Bad attitude to have, it's all you drivers out there that are ruining our environment.
Ok, granted buses give off fumes, but when you think about it a full bus is potentially 50 cars off the road, I'm all for buses.

Don't know where you live, but the roads have been worse without the buses on my way to work. If I ever get a car, I'd still use buses, they are quicker than cars because of the bus lanes.

Originally posted by Rich
My uncle was saying in the pub last night that the Bus drivers have got their pay increase, but they've turned round and said they want it backdating to April!

If they'd said that in the first place during the original negotiations then fair enough and they'd have a leg to stand on, but to only come out and ask for it at this late stage is beyond daft IMO.


Its First that has stated that the only way that they can fund a pay rise is by not backdating money to 1st April.
The pay talks started in April,and First has dragged their feet up to this time.If First would back down and pay the back pay,all buses would be out on the road now.
It will cost them aroen £300,000 to pay the back pay,by my calculations,they will have list that twice over by now.
We are talking an international,multi-billion pound company here,that amount of money to them is like a fiver to me and you.

Originally posted by Foxxx
Bad attitude to have, it's all you drivers out there that are ruining our environment.
Ok, granted buses give off fumes, but when you think about it a full bus is potentially 50 cars off the road, I'm all for buses.

Don't know where you live, but the roads have been worse without the buses on my way to work. If I ever get a car, I'd still use buses, they are quicker than cars because of the bus lanes.

I usally use buses, mainly becuase my wife is unabl;e to give me a lift.

If I went by car I would be at work in 10-15 mins, as I can go the quickest way avoiding all the snarlup points like at Queens road. I go over the top and avoid that one way system.

By bus I have to set off 10 mins before its due in case its early, then in travel time alone it takes me 45-60 mins depending on time of day. Stuck behind other buses and cars in jams that the bus can't avoid as they have to follow a route.

Today waiting for a Yorkshire Terrier, (49/49A) left house at 10:10 bus came at 11:30 full so went pass bus stop bus should be every 15 mins.

Luckly wife got home from swimming just then gave me a lift got there with 3mins to spare. If I had caught that bus I would have been at least 45 mins late. Docked pay and poss disiplinary.

There are more cars on the road during the strike simply becuase thats only how a lot of people can get around. What else do you want them to be prisoners. This strike isn't their fault so don't have a go at someone for getting their car out when they haven't got a bus to catch.

Originally posted by jubby
There are more cars on the road during the strike simply becuase thats only how a lot of people can get around. What else do you want them to be prisoners. This strike isn't their fault so don't have a go at someone for getting their car out when they haven't got a bus to catch.

I don't think people were complaining about people using cars during the strike, but about car drivers insisting on driving everywhere the rest of the time, when they have no excuse. ;)

Of course, if less people drove, you'd probably get to work on the bus quicker...

If First give in to their now crazy demands what next? Will they ask for more?

This strike wont end this week, even if they are given the backdating, as cynical as it seems the drivers are getting a free holiday out of this so its in their interests to keep this pathetic excuse for a 'strike'* going. Fair enough it was fine to ask for a payrise but by adding the backdating on after as a last minute thing (which strikes me as a way of needlessly carrying on the strike) its turned into complete madness.

They've bitten off their nose to spite their faces really, they arent gonna get paid this week (which sum totals more than the increase they are getting anyway!!) and a hell of a lot of people have lost all respect for both the company and the drivers.


*NB. you see a strike is where both parties have talks, the drivers are apparently ignoring what first are saying and not replying to them...

Originally posted by Internetowl
I hope they stay on strike. The roads have been a pleasure to drive on - no dirty smog creating, slow moving obsticles in my way..



That seems quite a harsh description of bus drivers. Still, they do tend to get you mad.

Originally posted by Shine



Howdo think a 1 mile DIRECT journey would be quicker tahn a 4 mile indirect journey which is not alterable if there is a problem ahead. This journey involves two methods of transport the bus and tram. if one is late I miss the other, so journey is longer. This could leave me being late for work and as said before docked pay and poss disiplinary.

Cars are sometimes the best option becuase public transport is so bad.

Still want to know though how the bus would make it quicker becuase even on the timetable its 40 mins, not including waiting and walking time to stops. Car journey 10-15 mins following the speed limit, adn traffic, lights permitting. Today it took 12 mins.

Jubby

i agree with RPG, im thoroughly sick of this strike. its so painfully pathetic. i would have thought the unions could take an objective and mature stand point on the negotiations, but obviously not. plus - what tiny inkling of respect i had quickly dissolved when they requested a pay rise as if they deserve it! dont get me wrong, theres probably a driver out there somewhere who is a gleaming example of the human race, but ive never met him. the drivers i see day to day cant even manage a monosyllabic 'pass?' when i ask for a students fare. suffice it to say when this strike ends I for one wont be saying 'cheers' when i get off.

-Jim

I have pointed this out three times on here now.


BACK PAY HAS BEEN AN ISSUE SINCE NEGOTIATIONS BEGAN.



It is First that has withdrawn it at the eleventh hour.

I don't see that their demands are "crazy".

As for the bus drivers having a free holiday. I doubt they are all out there living it up for the week. Afterall they all have bills to pay, families to feed etc..and losing a weeks wage is hardly going to make for a nice holiday.

I agree with the drivers. Their wage is ridiculous and they deserve a lot more. I know the same could be said for other people but it's the bus drivers we are talking about at the moment.

Originally posted by uncleheed
Its First that has stated that the only way that they can fund a pay rise is by not backdating money to 1st April.
The pay talks started in April,and First has dragged their feet up to this time.If First would back down and pay the back pay,all buses would be out on the road now.
It will cost them aroen £300,000 to pay the back pay,by my calculations,they will have list that twice over by now.
We are talking an international,multi-billion pound company here,that amount of money to them is like a fiver to me and you.

Perhaps they are trying to teach you a lesson and make you come crwling back. Afterall, this is now the second bus strike in two years.

Originally posted by steelblade
I don't see that their demands are "crazy".

As for the bus drivers having a free holiday. I doubt they are all out there living it up for the week. Afterall they all have bills to pay, families to feed etc..and losing a weeks wage is hardly going to make for a nice holiday.

I agree with the drivers. Their wage is ridiculous and they deserve a lot more. I know the same could be said for other people but it's the bus drivers we are talking about at the moment.

so you won't mind when the fares go up?

seeing as you are the resident drivers voice here on SF, whats your take on the Unions handling of the dispute?

-Jim

I have heard that First managed to break the unions in America. Lets hope they don't manage it here.

Kirky you can't blame the drivers for fare increases.

If First gave the drivers a pay increase they could quite easily do it and not have to raise fares and they would still be making a profit. They are just a greedy global company who want to squeeze as much out of people as they can.

I think it's very shameful that people would blame the working man for being ripped off rather than direct the blame at those who deserve it ie: the greedy global company.

Perhaps people might be interested in this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3706217.stm

Ahhhh poor First Group, they will just have to increase fares because of those nasty workers, otherwise how on earth will they ever carry on!

so you are saying that because they are currently sucessful they deserve to be subjected to such coercion? its ok for them to be pressured out of money, just because they CAN afford it?

while you are at it, why dont you nick First's CEOs TV while you are at it, i mean he can afford another one - no harm done!

:rolleyes:

-Jim

What I am saying is that had First treated their workers with the respect they deserve, and paid them a decent wage for the work they do, then there would have been no need for this strike.

Howver First thought they could carry on making maximum profits, paying their workers as little as possible and ripping off the public. The drivers are standing up to them and we should ALL be supporting them.

If workers have to hold companies to ransom and "pressure them out of money" then so be it. The companies have a choice.

The problem is that all workers in all industries feel they deserve more pay then get. It is just human nature and quite understandable. The problem is that if everyone who wanted more pay went on strike then the whole country would grind to a halt.

As I said in an earlier post yes I realise that other workers in other industries feel the same but at the moment we are talking about bus drivers.

Slimsid you say that if other workers went on strike then the country would grind to a halt. What would you like to see happen then? Would you like workers to keep schtum about their pay and conditions? Should they just keep their heads down and get on with it?

Sometimes you have to make a stand.

Originally posted by jubby
Still want to know though how the bus would make it quicker

I suggested the bus might get you there more quickly if there was less congestion because you said your bus spent a lot of time stuck in congestion.

Originally posted by steelblade
Sometimes you have to make a stand.

Heartily agreed.

Originally posted by steelblade
Kirky you can't blame the drivers for fare increases.

If First gave the drivers a pay increase they could quite easily do it and not have to raise fares and they would still be making a profit. They are just a greedy global company who want to squeeze as much out of people as they can.

I think it's very shameful that people would blame the working man for being ripped off rather than direct the blame at those who deserve it ie: the greedy global company.


Originally posted by steelblade
Howver First thought they could carry on making maximum profits, paying their workers as little as possible and ripping off the public. The drivers are standing up to them and we should ALL be supporting them.

Yes, yes and thrice yes.

As I said in my first post on this subject, all the way back on page one, First can either charge lower bus fares, or charge higher fares and pay their drivers more.

What they're doing at the moment is charging very high fares, while paying staff a low salary and creaming the rest off for themselves.

Originally posted by steelblade
Kirky you can't blame the drivers for fare increases.

If First gave the drivers a pay increase they could quite easily do it and not have to raise fares and they would still be making a profit. They are just a greedy global company who want to squeeze as much out of people as they can.

I think it's very shameful that people would blame the working man for being ripped off rather than direct the blame at those who deserve it ie: the greedy global company.

Perhaps people might be interested in this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3706217.stm

Ahhhh poor First Group, they will just have to increase fares because of those nasty workers, otherwise how on earth will they ever carry on!

The greedy gobal company didn't vote for a strike.

The greddy gobal company haven't stopped running the buses.

They are running them best they can. Saw a C1 today being driven by what looked like a manager as he was in a suit.

Jubby

Of course First wouldn't want a strike, that would be a ridiculous thing for them to want.

Of course the managers are going to be out driving the buses!!

They aren't doing it for the good of the public!

They are doing it because:

a) They have been forced to go out and drive the buses.
b) They want to make sure they keep their WELL PAID jobs.

it's probably already been said, but what do these drivers do for their money? drive around, begrudgingly stopping for passengers, driving straight past bus stops when a bus is already there (because everyone at that stop wants just that one bus), asking if you have anything less when you pay for a £1.05 fare with £1.10, refuse to let obviously 90+ aged people on for cheaps when they don't have their pass, rush past intermediate stops so they can read a paper for 20 minutes at terminus, refuse to tell visitors to the City which stop they need, refuse to let people off in standstill traffic, overcharge people that don't know the fare, not giving tickets out so they can keep the fare themselves, driving off from a stop when they see someone running for the bus...
..any more?
and that's worth the £8 or so an hour they want? yeah, right...

Originally posted by steelblade
What I am saying is that had First treated their workers with the respect they deserve, and paid them a decent wage for the work they do, then there would have been no need for this strike.

Howver First thought they could carry on making maximum profits, paying their workers as little as possible and ripping off the public. The drivers are standing up to them and we should ALL be supporting them.

If workers have to hold companies to ransom and "pressure them out of money" then so be it. The companies have a choice.

If they paid them based on the work they did they would need to be giving them a paycut, becuase have the drivers don't do their job. See previous post re rotherham driver not operating the ramp which IS his job. Are you saying its fine to give a rise to someone like that??? I don't think that is right.

I hope they enjoyed their days off.

As Ihave said before,half of you wouldn't last 5 minutes driving a bus.
I agree,there are some bad drivers,and some really grumpy old gets,but in the main the younger drivers are ok.
I have been doing the job now for 2 years,I have paased my NVQ in road passenger transport,and also have commendations from passengers.

Please don't tar us all with the same brush.
I have been egged,waterbombed,had bricks thrown at me,other road users threatening to 'knock my effing head off',for him not using indicators,and other verbal threats from the lovely travelling public.
In my opinion,and with what I have had to put up with in 2 years,I do deserve more than £5.85 an hour.And,I have to put up with that rate for another 2 years.The miserable old gits who you seem to encounter on buses are on allmost £8 an hour.



P.S.

I am not condoning the Rotherham driver with the ramp,but if he has not been ramp trained,he cannot operate the ramp.
In the current compensation culture,if he was not trained,and the passenger or the driver was injured in any way,Claims Direct would be on the phone in a heartbeat.

Originally posted by Shine
I suggested the bus might get you there more quickly if there was less congestion because you said your bus spent a lot of time stuck in congestion.

I said it takes even longer during peak, becuase theirs more congestion mostly buses in fact, as the congestion is at bus stops so bus can't pull round until it picks up/drops off passengers

Like I said on the timetable it takes 40 mins still over twice as long than the car. The 40 mins is just the bus btw the tram is an extra 7 mins on timetable then plus the walking and waiting for these its still at least 55 min on a quiet day. I allow 1 1/2 hours by car I allow 20 mins. A hell of a lot of difference.

Jubby

Not all of the drivers are like the ones mentioned on this thread.

I'm actually suprised that there are still nice drivers out there. The job they do must be extremely demoralising.

They drive around all day dealing with idiots on the road. They deal with idiots who get on the bus and try to get a 40p fare without a pass when they know for a fact they need a pass.

They have people blagging that their 5 foot 6 kid with a beard really is under 5 and so shouldn't have to pay.

Then there are the people who hold everything up because they don't have their fare ready when they've only been stood at a bus stop for the last 20 minutes
:rolleyes:

There's the idiots who insist on smoking upstairs when we all know there is clearly a no smoking policy on all buses.

Lets not forget the people who like to threaten the drivers, spit on them, threaten them with weapons, throw objects at them and rob them.

All that day in day out for years on such a crappy rate of pay. Goodness me I think I'd be grumpy aswell.

As for drivers not letting people off before the bus stops, they are NOT allowed to do this! They can get a warning for doing this so it simply isn't worth it for them.

is £5.85 an hour not quite a good rate for unskilled work?

Originally posted by richynomates
it's probably already been said, but what do these drivers do for their money? drive around, begrudgingly stopping for passengers, driving straight past bus stops when a bus is already there (because everyone at that stop wants just that one bus), asking if you have anything less when you pay for a £1.05 fare with £1.10, refuse to let obviously 90+ aged people on for cheaps when they don't have their pass, rush past intermediate stops so they can read a paper for 20 minutes at terminus, refuse to tell visitors to the City which stop they need, refuse to let people off in standstill traffic, overcharge people that don't know the fare, not giving tickets out so they can keep the fare themselves, driving off from a stop when they see someone running for the bus...
..any more?
and that's worth the £8 or so an hour they want? yeah, right...

you want to grow up mate

Originally posted by richynomates
is £5.85 an hour not quite a good rate for unskilled work?

Why is it unskilled?

Originally posted by Andy C
Very true, but should get people to work and back.

Most of the Stagecoach buses do run later, as do the Stagecoach trams, and all the train companies.

Odd other obscure ones run late such as the Aston 253 and TM Travel 89.

I believe the Yorkshire Terrier buses on route 52 run until about 9:30pm.

Don't forget Powells Bus Co is running a 97 up abbeydale and into town and back. Not terribly frequent though

I'd also like to know why it's unskilled?

I bet half the drivers on the road couldn't drive a bus!

Originally posted by wibbles
I hope they enjoyed their days off.

I guess most of them have cars so they won't be too inconvenienced themselves while on strike.

Yes I'm sure most of them will be able to afford to feed a family, run a house AND run a car, all on £5.85 per hour.:rolleyes:

Why some of you insist on making out that the drivers are loving being on strike, I just don't know.

Would you fancy losing a weeks wage? possibly even more if it carries on?

Originally posted by uncleheed
As Ihave said before,half of you wouldn't last 5 minutes driving a bus.
I agree,there are some bad drivers,and some really grumpy old gets,but in the main the younger drivers are ok.
I have been doing the job now for 2 years,I have paased my NVQ in road passenger transport,and also have commendations from passengers.

Please don't tar us all with the same brush.
I have been egged,waterbombed,had bricks thrown at me,other road users threatening to 'knock my effing head off',for him not using indicators,and other verbal threats from the lovely travelling public.
In my opinion,and with what I have had to put up with in 2 years,I do deserve more than £5.85 an hour.And,I have to put up with that rate for another 2 years.The miserable old gits who you seem to encounter on buses are on allmost £8 an hour.




P.S.

I am not condoning the Rotherham driver with the ramp,but if he has not been ramp trained,he cannot operate the ramp.
In the current compensation culture,if he was not trained,and the passenger or the driver was injured in any way,Claims Direct would be on the phone in a heartbeat.

Perhaps I should have been clearer. sorry.

The disabled passenger was already on the bus (as the driver had operated the ramp to let him on.) Then, at the terminus the driver refused to operate the ramp to let him off again saying that he should back himself off the bus. It was when the passenger said he couldn't do that safely that the driver said he wasn't paid to operate the ramp - despite the fact that he had already done so to let the man on.

It just seems like he was being difficult for the sake of it.

so you are saying you deserve a heroes wage just because you put up with crap from the public at work?

most drivers out there get abused on the road, be they bus, car, lorry, cyclists, motorbikers, etc... so dont feel like you are being singled out - its a fact of life. everyone has to put up with crap at work at some point, so boo hoo hoo. you make it out like you are the same as the fire service when they went on strike! at least they really were risking their lives for a crap wage.

and another thing, you say the grumpy attitudes are reactionary to thye public mistreating of you poor poor bus drivers, and that you arent all the same? neither are we, so why are we expected to put up with the bad moods of the 'grumpy gits'??

-Jim

Just for the record I'm NOT a bus driver.

As for a hero's wage, I'd hardly call what the drivers are asking for, a hero's wage!

lol well thats true but it really comes across that way - as if they are all the downtrodden, unrecognised crusaders of the public transport world :rolleyes:

-Jim

Originally posted by uncleheed

P.S.

I am not condoning the Rotherham driver with the ramp,but if he has not been ramp trained,he cannot operate the ramp.
In the current compensation culture,if he was not trained,and the passenger or the driver was injured in any way,Claims Direct would be on the phone in a heartbeat.

As of April this year all public transport providers have to provide access where possible. If he is not ramp trained First (not sure if him personaly) can be sued under the Disabilty Discrimination Act for not providing access where access is provided. If that makes sense. I know its First's responsility to provide that training, which has to come from somewhere so not all bus fares go into fat cat pockets it has to pay for this training, like your NVQ. I've had this debate eariler this year before the legilation came into force. I will find out if the driver is liable for failing to provide the service. One thing though it's an easy thing for a driver to say they are not trained, they should be some indication on the uniform like in a big badge or a sign for you to display that shows you can operate the ramp even though I know this will be abused. I can see the law suits coming thick and fast soon. Also why do some drivers refuse to show their PSV badge when asked by passengers even though by law it should be on display. Related to a former SYT bus driver.

I wouldn't be working for £5.85, especially in that job. I wouldn't want the lives of 50 people in my hands, having to put up with increasingly impatient drivers as well as the public. Any trouble I have ever seen on buses has been with passengers, not drivers.

I don't see how anyone could manage to get a mortgage on such a low wage with house prices as they are. It seems like a very responsible job for such a small wage. £8 an hour certainly seems a lot more fair for such a demanding job.

If people think this is such a great wage and easy job, get on to First for an application, maybe then they can get rid of some of the grumpy ones... or maybe get yourself a car, then the only grumpy person you have to travel with is yourself.

I try my hardest to appease everyone on my bus,but it is just impossible.

It's rather like getting certain members of this forum to understand the difficulties of the job.

Originally posted by jubby
Also why do some drivers refuse to show their PSV badge when asked by passengers even though by law it should be on display. Related to a former SYT bus driver.

You don't get a PCV badge now,it's just letters on the licence i'm afraid.

Originally posted by steelblade
Yes I'm sure most of them will be able to afford to feed a family, run a house AND run a car, all on £5.85 per hour.:rolleyes:

Why some of you insist on making out that the drivers are loving being on strike, I just don't know.

Would you fancy losing a weeks wage? possibly even more if it carries on?
A lot of other people manage on less..and don't have the luxury of being able to hold the public to ransom when in fact the job itself was always going to be a low paid job as it doesn't require qualifications or experience. If you want to get paid lots of money then bus driver wouldn't be top of my job list but it tends to be the only job that a lot of them can take because they don't have the skills or qualifications to do anything else. The payrise offered is no more different to what the majority of most workers get and I can think of a lot of other professions that offer a far superior service to the customer than a bus driver does.
I think they should just accept the type of job they are in will not pay well and concentrate on offering a better service then maybe any future pay requirement would be taken more seriously by the public. There was a small public backlash against the fire service when they went on strike for money (which I may add they deserved a pay rise for the type of job they actually do extremely well) so what do you expect the public to do when bus drivers who aren't flavour of the month anyway, go on strike??

Originally posted by steelblade
Not all of the drivers are like the ones mentioned on this thread.

I'm actually suprised that there are still nice drivers out there. The job they do must be extremely demoralising.

They drive around all day dealing with idiots on the road. They deal with idiots who get on the bus and try to get a 40p fare without a pass when they know for a fact they need a pass.

They have people blagging that their 5 foot 6 kid with a beard really is under 5 and so shouldn't have to pay.

Then there are the people who hold everything up because they don't have their fare ready when they've only been stood at a bus stop for the last 20 minutes
:rolleyes:

There's the idiots who insist on smoking upstairs when we all know there is clearly a no smoking policy on all buses.

Lets not forget the people who like to threaten the drivers, spit on them, threaten them with weapons, throw objects at them and rob them.

All that day in day out for years on such a crappy rate of pay. Goodness me I think I'd be grumpy aswell.

As for drivers not letting people off before the bus stops, they are NOT allowed to do this! They can get a warning for doing this so it simply isn't worth it for them.

I've seen on here lots of comments saying don't treat each driver with the same brush, fair comment. Can the drivers therefore not treat all passengers with the same brush.

I once tried to board a bus with some WRAPPED up electric hedge trimmers (my son who was 5 at the time had already ran to the back of the bus and sat down) I was refused entry becuase I "may switch them on and threaten him) I went to get off the bus and wait for my son. He shut the doors on the trimmers dragged me 10 yard down the road stopped opened the doors to which I got on his bus asked for his lincence so i could report him, He refused demanded I get of the bus. I said i would as soon as my now very distraught son had got off to which he opened his door and shouted at my son "get off the F****ing bus" This driver was sursprisingly attacked about 6 months after this incident.

My son is Austistic btw and is always poorly treated by drivers not to this extent but still bad

I worked as a postman a few years ago, and i got payed more than £5.85 an hour back then, and it was certainly not a job that required any skill, other than being able to walk and read. How is a fireman or a postman more skilled than a bus driver? I understand that a fireman puts his life at risk, but an unhappy bus driver could put many peoples lives at risk... and if bus drivers really are as bad as people make out, why do people get on the bus? Boycott the service, they'll have to smarten up.

I would like wibbles,slimsid,et al,to spend a day sat on a bus,(as a passenger),and just watch what is involved in this 'unskilled job for morons'.

The bus is not a mini metro:it is 39 ft long 8 ft wide 10-14ft high.

The tickets do not issue themselves: The come out of a computerised ticket machine that needs programming at every terminus,and works out all prices for staged journeys.

The machine does not tell you how much change to issue.Us neandethals have to take our shoes off to count it up.

When someone wants to smash your face in you have to diffuse the situation to the best of your abilities.

The highway code has to be followed:Contrary to popular belief,most drivers know more about the highway code that any car driver.

The routes the services follow are not the mosr direct.I personally know over 25 routes,most people only know one way to work,pub,shops.

I know it doesnt pay fantastic wages,That is my fault for not wanting to stay at school.I wanted to leave school and work for a living.

Now would all you who seem to delight in pulling bus drivers down,give us a break.It is a hard and stressful job,that not many people can handle.


Also,firefighters spend most of their time checking hydrants and playing snooker.10%of their job is fighting fires.And that is from an ex-fireman

Originally posted by uncleheed
You don't get a PCV badge now,it's just letters on the licence i'm afraid.

So why do they refuse to give their name then.

Originally posted by Snook
I worked as a postman a few years ago, and i got payed more than £5.85 an hour back then, and it was certainly not a job that required any skill, other than being able to walk and read. How is a fireman or a postman more skilled than a bus driver? I understand that a fireman puts his life at risk, but an unhappy bus driver could put many peoples lives at risk... and if bus drivers really are as bad as people make out, why do people get on the bus? Boycott the service, they'll have to smarten up.

No choice Snook that's why. Unless we want to pay lots of money in taxis at substanily more than a bus ticket costs.

A fireman is more skilled than both apostman and bus driver previous qualifactions are required ie A levels to stand any chance of being selected then you they go though a very hard training course and aren't fully quilified until two years in the job where a bus driver is after he passes his bus driving test.

I stand to be corrected on this but I do believe that it is not a legal requirement to have a PCV badge on display whilst on duty anymore.

Originally posted by jubby
No choice Snook that's why. Unless we want to pay lots of money in taxis at substanily more than a bus ticket costs.

A fireman is more skilled than both apostman and bus driver previous qualifactions are required ie A levels to stand any chance of being selected then you they go though a very hard training course and aren't fully quilified until two years in the job where a bus driver is after he passes his bus driving test.

If you have no choice why do you find it so hard to see that this is an essential service? You rely on these people, otherwise you cannot function. Doesn't that make it quite an important job?

Originally posted by uncleheed

The highway code has to be followed:Contrary to popular belief,most drivers know more about the highway code that any car driver.



Which part of the highway code says when pulling out of the bus stop leave yuor right hand indicator on for at least 1/2 down the road or until you need (want) to put on your left hand indicator.

Extremly annoying up the manor near the fire station they pull out with their indicator left on so you think they want to pull over (the correct way btw would be to signal pulling out, then cancel and re signal to change lanes) so you give way. Then you relise that the driver has left it on (bleeping inside the cab so loud you can hear on the back of the bus) so you start to overtake for them to suddenly decide to move over (about 1000 yards from where they pulled out) then they have the cheeck to honk at you . And also give the other hand signal i can't find in the highway code (involves the middle finger) when you point out THEIR bad driving.

Originally posted by Snook
If you have no choice why do you find it so hard to see that this is an essential service? You rely on these people, otherwise you cannot function. Doesn't that make it quite an important job?

Just because it is inportant doesn't mean the drivers have a right to be rude for no reason.

Thats was one of your points if it is so bad then why use it. (or words to that effect) I have no choice but to use it itherwise I can't get to work and feed my family etc. Or do you prefer I beg of the dole instead???

Originally posted by jubby
Just because it is inportant doesn't mean the drivers have a right to be rude for no reason.

Thats was one of your points if it is so bad then why use it. (or words to that effect) I have no choice but to use it itherwise I can't get to work and feed my family etc. Or do you prefer I beg of the dole instead???

Maybe if they got a decent wage they'd be happier, eh?

Originally posted by Snook
Maybe if they got a decent wage they'd be happier, eh?

manners cost nothing!!

I dispair.Its plain to see that some people are bigoted towards bus driver,no matter how hard you try to please them.

I suppose if I was to greet every customer as though they were my long lost brother,it still wouldnt be enough for some.

Obviously jubby's missus ran off with a bus driver.

Originally posted by uncleheed
I dispair.Its plain to see that some people are bigoted towards bus driver,no matter how hard you try to please them.

I suppose if I was to greet every customer as though they were my long lost brother,it still wouldnt be enough for some.

Obviously jubby's missus ran off with a bus driver.

No she still at home she was fathered by a SYT busdriver who was applaed to hear how his grandson was treated by someone who he may have called a colleuge.

I'm not bigoted towards bus drivers they are some nice ones, but the most don't even know what "please" and "thank you" mean if they do they don't use it. Notice that on my posts I use the word MOST not ALL.

It's these that are in my opinion the ones that let the nice drivers down.

Originally posted by jubby


There are more cars on the road during the strike simply becuase thats only how a lot of people can get around. What else do you want them to be prisoners. This strike isn't their fault so don't have a go at someone for getting their car out when they haven't got a bus to catch.

Think you got the wrong end of the stick. Of course I don't expect people to be prisoners. And I wasn't having a go!
I know people have to use their cars at the moment, I was merely picking up on the fact that quite a few people in this thread have said they wish the buses to stay on strike so they can drive to work without buses in their way. These people obviously support driving and not buses. As I said, if I ever get a car, I'd still bus to work.

stay on strike for all i care.............

i may be losing money on my monthly pass, but it saves me time walking to work.....

walking to work in a morning takes about 20 mins in total, to be signed in at work etc

if i caught the bus, wud be about 10 mins before the bus arrived arived, another 10 mins to get to town
then wait for a tram from town, or bus another 10 mins
and 5 mins from tram stop
few mins to sign in, nearly 40 minutes that........

same with coming home...........

but this all depends on this bus ACTUALLY turning up



i know it is a bad thing, but if i was first, i wud start axing jobs........... get some drivers in from other areas of the group, employ some new people,........ get a few basic routes running,

would show the strikers......

Originally posted by Foxxx
Think you got the wrong end of the stick. Of course I don't expect people to be prisoners. And I wasn't having a go!
I know people have to use their cars at the moment, I was merely picking up on the fact that quite a few people in this thread have said they wish the buses to stay on strike so they can drive to work without buses in their way. These people obviously support driving and not buses. As I said, if I ever get a car, I'd still bus to work.

Sorry misunderstood you. Fair point. I personally may use my sometimes like on a Sunday as the buses are very bad on a Sunday getting to work.

Also can the Bus Driver answer me a question that has just hit me (ouch) what is happening to all the contract hire work like weddings. Will these still be honoured by managers driving the buses???

Jubby

The old style double decker that does the weddings is run privately by a small number of drivers,and has nothing to do with First.

Originally posted by uncleheed
The old style double decker that does the weddings is run privately by a small number of drivers,and has nothing to do with First.

What about other contract work - schools etc

Originally posted by uncleheed
[

The highway code has to be followed:Contrary to popular belief,most drivers know more about the highway code that any car driver.
[/B]

If that is the case, then why oh why do drivers pull out of bus stops with their left indicator still flashing

or

why do they park at diagonal angles to the road when picking up or dropping passengers off, therefore blocking the road for other road users..


Just a couple of observations...as I wend myway across the city

Originally posted by uncleheed
I would like wibbles,slimsid,et al,to spend a day sat on a bus,(as a passenger),and just watch what is involved in this 'unskilled job for morons'.

The bus is not a mini metro:it is 39 ft long 8 ft wide 10-14ft high.

The tickets do not issue themselves: The come out of a computerised ticket machine that needs programming at every terminus,and works out all prices for staged journeys.

The machine does not tell you how much change to issue.Us neandethals have to take our shoes off to count it up.

When someone wants to smash your face in you have to diffuse the situation to the best of your abilities.

The highway code has to be followed:Contrary to popular belief,most drivers know more about the highway code that any car driver.

The routes the services follow are not the mosr direct.I personally know over 25 routes,most people only know one way to work,pub,shops.

I know it doesnt pay fantastic wages,That is my fault for not wanting to stay at school.I wanted to leave school and work for a living.

Now would all you who seem to delight in pulling bus drivers down,give us a break.It is a hard and stressful job,that not many people can handle.


Also,firefighters spend most of their time checking hydrants and playing snooker.10%of their job is fighting fires.And that is from an ex-fireman

Excuse me while I set the violins going..not only do you have to add up (god forbid) but you also know a few routes to certain places...whoopee...guess what ; If I drove the same ways round Sheffield day in day out I would..its not rocket science. We all have stressful jobs and a lot of us are customer facing and have to take just as much abuse as you do but like I said we aren't in the priveliged position of being able to hold the public to ransom. Its ignorant to believe people are bigoted against bus drivers...its just you provide a very poor service and we choose to vent our frustrations at you and I think you deserve it.The sooner you accept this and make an effort to change it, the sooner you may gain a bit more respect from the public that contribute to your wages.Don't even try and compare yourselves to firemen..these people risk their lives day in day out whether or not they play pool the majority of time is besides the point. That 10% of the time they actually firefight is more valuable a contribution to society than a whole week of you driving a bus around Sheffield

I would love to see someone like you handle an abusive drunk,or someone threatening to stick a dirty syrynge in you.
No doubt you would start crying like a baby and run away.
I don't doubt other people have stressful jobs,but how many have people coming to their place of work with the sole aim of abusing you?

I was wrong ,it wasn't mrs jubby that ran off with a bus driver,it was mrs wibbles.

Thats just the point..surely you knew all this when you made the hard career choice of either working in Mcdonalds or becoming a bus driver???.
As for your comment about crying like a baby and running away..well that just about sums up the intelligence level we are dealing with.
By the way I happen to know Mrs Wibbles wouldn't even consider a lazy, rude, ignorant, averagely paid, no prospects bus driver anyway.
I see you're still on your holidays today then.

Its not just me..see the majority of posts. A lot of people are not happy with what you provide but you just stick your head in the sand and pull out the old 'well I'd like to see you put up with the abuse' card..yawn yawn..seen it, heard it before but nothing changes.
The sad thing is I would actually want to support the bus drivers but at the moment I don't feel you have a legitimate case for wanting more and more money.

I think that persons subscribing to this thread should take a step back and agree that everybody of course is perfectly entitled to an opinion both for and against the strike but this is starting to become a slanging match.
Also it has been implied that many bus drivers are low on intelligence but I can say that many drivers are very well educated and have come into the transport industry for many varied reasons due both to professional and private reasons.

Are companies like First being subsidised by the government ?

A driver married with two children of school age earning £5.80/hour for a 40 hour week, whose wife does not work would be entitled to £3500.00/year family and child tax credit. This would bring his income up to £15564 p.a. or £299.00/week. He would need an hourly rate of around £7.50 to escape the 'poverty trap' set by the government.

Why have we allowed what used to be the respectable 'working class' to become a despised underclass heavily dependent on government handouts for a basic standard of living ? Who are the essential beneficiaries of the system...the employers/shareholders or we the consumers ?

Originally posted by d71146
I think that persons subscribing to this thread should take a step back and agree that everybody of course is perfectly entitled to an opinion both for and against the strike but this is starting to become a slanging match.
Also it has been implied that many bus drivers are low on intelligence but I can say that many drivers are very well educated and have come into the transport industry for many varied reasons due both to professional and private reasons.
Fair enough..good point. Sometimes we all get a bit carried away when on our soapbox so I apologise to the hard working, friendly bus drivers out there that DO provide an excellent service. Hope you get what you deserve

Originally posted by wibbles
Fair enough..good point. Sometimes we all get a bit carried away when on our soapbox so I apologise to the hard working, friendly bus drivers out there that DO provide an excellent service. Hope you get what you deserve

erm...Don't know what happened here :confused: :confused:

I got a stagecoach bus today for the first time ever, having waited for a yorkshire terrior to turn up which didn't!

Anyway, on the back of my ticket is an advert:

"£6.13 per hour on completion of training rising to £6.67 after 1 years service. Lots of overtime opportunities. Industry leading pension scheme after qualifying period, free uniform and opportunities for promotion, 20 days holiday and sick pay scheme, travel concessions and opportunity to gain NVQ"

It seems to me that you get paid more with stagecoach and my fare was only 85p instead of First's £1.10!