Yes... I know... Here is another topic about leeds... But boy I needed to talk about this wonderful city that is leeds.
Before today I had never gone to leeds, probably as whoever I spoke to told me it was a dump..
Well I went today for a daytrip and what a beautiful city!! Wow!!
No comparison to Sheffield ( And god knows I love Sheffield)..
First I get off the train, and the train station is like so much nicer than Sheffield ( definately a "big city feel" train station. To cut a long story short leeds has wonderful shops. Literally a mini London. It has numerous shopping arcades, a lovely market (Sheffield please take the example of leeds on markets pleeaaase!!), and a good department stores which includes harvey nichs of course but house of fraser too which sadly was closed down in Sheffield city centre and reopened in meadowhell..

Some might say some leeds shops are in meadowhell, but believe me strolling along in open air, and gorgeous buildings is far better than pushing each other in meadowhall..

In sum Sheffield is a wonderful place, but I wish, oh yes I wish it could catch up with other cities...

its unbeliveable how many leeds utd/rhino shirts amonst other clubs you see walking around meadowhall suppose its a case of the grass being greener eh?

Sony, I agree Leeds city centre is cleaner and has better shops, but I'm surprised you never mentioned the hundreds of Big Issue sellers in Leeds City Centre. Have Leeds City Council purged them from the streets?

And didn't you notice it's full of Mancs?

Originally posted by Abdul
Sony, I agree Leeds city centre is cleaner and has better shops, but I'm surprised you never mentioned the hundreds of Big Issue sellers in Leeds City Centre. Have Leeds City Council purged them from the streets?

And didn't you notice it's full of Mancs?

Well Abdul, they must have done something about it as we actually commented how few big issue sellers there were!! As abouts manchester people, I didn't haver enough time to see for myself.
I just couldn't help but think on the way back what the hell people from other places such as leeds think of sheffield??

I've lived in Sheffield for about 15?? years and have never felt hassled or threatened in the city centre. Actually - I tell a lie - just once.

I've worked in Leeds for about 3 years between 2001 and 2004, in which time I witnessed quite a few fights, was knocked off my feet once when walking back to the bus station, have been accosted by drunks and the homeless (in the daytime) and have been in an office just off the city centre where we were warned to be wary of drive by shootings and muggers who targetted office staff.

Leeds may look pretty but I found it to be the least friendly city centre I've spent time in - including London and Manchester.

We may not have Harvey Nics but we don't yet have the exciting urban life.....

Joe

There is one good thing about Leeds ...

the road out!

went to leeds tuesday, fair enough it has a bigger city feel than sheff, it has some lovely arcades and more shops but it is also a grubby city with terrible infrastructure. I also felt really threatened by loads of big issue sellers and loads of 'dodgy' looking people stood at the grubby bus stops that are everywhere. They've only just started the pedestrianisation of Briggate(their fargate) and we moan that OUR city lags behind! Its not a place i feel the need to go to unless i suddenly have the money to buy from harvey nicks.

Leeds is like a little London - exactly why I prefer Sheffield-London is a dirty, oppressive, unfriendly, claustrophobic place.

In Leeds you cant see very much sky, in Sheffield there is loads of it, Sheffield has the peace gardens, winter gardens, loads of art galleries etc, it is so much more then just a bunch of over priced, over rated shops which are in all cities now.

BTW what is wrong with big issue sellers?

Fact: All of us on this forum moan that Sheffield lags behind but any other city mentionned on here is so much worse than Sheffield... So why moan about Sheffield if it's so great??

I honestly saw less yobs hanging about anywhere in Leeds city centre, less big issue sellers, hardly any litter, and just a couple of market research people..

There are a few mentions that Leeds is like a "little london" - has anyone been to the actual Little London area in Leeds - Makes Winn Gardens look like a holiday camp! But the point i want to make is, whilst Leeds City Centre may seem like a little London, the suburbs and residential areas are like a big Bolton, ie, grim. Sheffield currently lacks a city centre, but the suburbs are the best on offer outside Hampstead, Swiss Cottage, Kensington and Highgate. All things considered, I think Sheffield is a lot better than Leeds.

Originally posted by elf
BTW what is wrong with big issue sellers?

I get a bit fed up after being accosted by the sixth as I walk down a 200 yard stretch of road. If you ignore them they start to get uppity and sarcastic, shouting down the street at you.

The truth is, it's a crap magazine, I shouldn't feel obliged to buy it to help the homeless. I put my change in the little boxes instead. It means they still get the money and the environment doesn't have to suffer the printing of a magazine I don't read and don't like.

Originally posted by Sony
Fact: All of us on this forum moan that Sheffield lags behind

Fact: Not all of us moan about Sheffield, on this forum or any other. Sheffield, as my adopted home of 30 years, has everything I need. I've worked in Leeds and Manc and can honestly say that I have no desire to go to either city unless I need to, which is not often and certainly not for shopping.

Originally posted by JoePritchard
I've lived in Sheffield for about 15?? years and have never felt hassled or threatened in the city centre. Actually - I tell a lie - just once.

I've worked in Leeds for about 3 years between 2001 and 2004, in which time I witnessed quite a few fights, was knocked off my feet once when walking back to the bus station, have been accosted by drunks and the homeless (in the daytime) and have been in an office just off the city centre where we were warned to be wary of drive by shootings and muggers who targetted office staff.

Leeds may look pretty but I found it to be the least friendly city centre I've spent time in - including London and Manchester.

We may not have Harvey Nics but we don't yet have the exciting urban life.....

Joe

I echo these comments. I worked in Leeds City Centre for a couple of years and regularly felt intimidated walking around the town centre at lunchtime. Never felt hassled the same way in Sheffield.

Hmm…Ive lived in Sheffield and Leeds and I think both have their plus and minus sides.

In ways of music and alternative and varied scenes Leeds is miles ahead with a huge underground diy ethos going on towards most genres of music. Long live LS6 diy.

On the other hand, Leeds seems to have a lot more "nasty" people. I lived in a pretty good area and at least half the people I know have been stopped and mugged/beatenup/frogmarched to a cash machine. I have to agree, Leeds city centre is much more threatening than Sheffield.

I don't think blaming big issues vendors is the solloution tho'. If you get hassle from one, note his number from his big badge and report them by ringing the number in the magazine. If theyre not wearing a badge they are not an official vendor and havn't the right to be selling the magazine. Action is taken against vendors reported.

Shops…hmm…I don’t care really….I wish Jumbo was in Sheffield but hey, theres lowlife/foreverchanges/record collector.

But don’t sweat folks….leeds and Sheffield are less than an hour apart….just enjoy the plus sides of both :)

Originally posted by Dug
I echo these comments. I worked in Leeds City Centre for a couple of years and regularly felt intimidated walking around the town centre at lunchtime. Never felt hassled the same way in Sheffield.

I'm very surprised.. People seemed just as friendly as sheffielders and it was so pleasant to sit in the city centre. I actually felt very safe.. I guess when you live there you might see things differently..

It seems to me that we have the problem with Leeds, and not them with us.

Pehaps it's a feeling of inadequacy on our part - or even jealousy.

You are correct, having worked or around Leeds for quite a few years you don't find them deriding 'Sheffielders'. It is however a place to be very wary of in some of the outskirts as well as in town centre at times

Originally posted by eltel
You are correct, having worked or around Leeds for quite a few years you don't find them deriding 'Sheffielders'. It is however a place to be very wary of in some of the outskirts as well as in town centre at times

Just like any other city in the UK ,in fact in the world... Sheffield at night can be very dodgy ( dare I mention flares a few weeks ago...) generally because of trouble around nightclubs.. And the outskirts of sheffield are nothing to be proud of... Sheffield might supposedly the safest city in the UK but I really wouldn't have thought so...

Originally posted by Sam Miguel
It seems to me that we have the problem with Leeds, and not them with us.

Pehaps it's a feeling of inadequacy on our part - or even jealousy.

Agree, it is a bit like why some people from Barnsley have a problem with people from Sheffield.

We left Sheffield in 1991, and have lived in Nottingham, Liverpool and Southport since. Maybe Sheffield city centre cannot compare to that of Leeds in terms of classy shops, sheer choice and sophistication but it is a much safer city in my experience. Sheffielders are notoriously sardonic and cynical [according to some outsiders such as the late Jean Rook] but even if they are it is preferable to the aggression rife in Leeds. Maybe outsiders don't always see the usual warmth that lies behind a sometimes "abrupt" [translates usually as straightforward and honest] Sheffield exterior, mistaking candour for selfish rudeness. In my honest experience, there seems to be a delusion on behalf of a great many Leeds people to the ends that they see themselves as "More Yorkshire" than the people of nearby towns and cities. I've heard this said too many times to be a coincidence. This idea that they are the "real" Tykes, coupled with the reputation of their football fans makes for an unfortunate image of aggressiveness which far too many of them try to live up to. Or, perhaps pretend to live up to. Ironically, [and yes, I am aware that Leeds is second only to London now in terms of financial importance] despite all the macho Leeds images that abound , the most famous Leeds person is arguably the rather camp [and brilliant] Alan Bennett.
Leeds can keep its new-found "sophistication". Get into an argument with a Sheffielder and you may well encounter the infamous, sarcastic "slow-timing". Get into an argument with many a Leeds man and look forward to dental surgery. A certain level of macho violence appears to be culturally acceptable in Leeds, and in middle class circles too.

Why should Leeds people be so different from Sheffielders when Leeds is only up the road from here? Ok if you compare London to say Glasgow or one country to another but why should people in Leeds which is of similar size to Sheffield be so different?

Originally posted by elf


BTW what is wrong with big issue sellers?


your joking right?

Originally posted by Sony
Why should Leeds people be so different from Sheffielders when Leeds is only up the road from here? Ok if you compare London to say Glasgow or one country to another but why should people in Leeds which is of similar size to Sheffield be so different?

It's a good question and I'm not sure what the answer is but here's what I think it is. In Sheffield, other parts of South Yorkshire and the Wakefield area the steel and coal industries were major sources of employment and those industries fostered a sense of solidarity, partly because they were nationalised, partly because they were heavily unionised but also partly because they were dangerous industries and your life depended on your colleagues doing their jobs properly and vice versa. Furthermore, since the steel works and the pits formed a major part of the local economy if they closed it would have a significant effect on other parts of the local economy so even if many people weren't directly employed in the steel works or the pits to some degree their employment depended on them. This sense of solidarity manifested itself politically in strong support for trade unions and the Labour Party and socially in a culture which was largely friendly and particularly popular with outsiders who visited or moved to the area.

In the other parts of West Yorkshire the dominant industry was the textile industry and that industry didn't foster the same degree of solidarity, partly because mills were privately owned and competed with each other and partly because they were not as unionised as the steel works or the pits. Furthermore, the textile industry was not as dominant as the steel and coal industries as West Yorkshire was a centre for the chemical industry, manufacturing, retailing and office-based employment such as the legal profession so the decline of the textile industry wasn't felt as severely or resisted as strongly as the decline of the mining industry was. This culture in which there was a much greater emphasis on competition rather than co-operation manifested itself in political polarisation with the balance of power between Labour wards and Tory wards being decided by a few swing voters (whilst South Yorkshire was almost Tory-free in the 1980's and 1990's during that period there were Tory MPs in Leeds, Bradford, Calderdale and Kirklees) and socially in a culture which was much less friendly, particularly towards outsiders and especially towards members of the ethnic minorities.

I think that Timo is right that some Leeds people think of themselves as more Yorkshire than people from other parts of Yorkshire. However, I think that the area where this nostalgic and nasty "Tyke" mentality has had the strongest hold and done the most damage is actually Bradford where the council launched a "Bradford's Bouncing Back" campaign in the 1980's but many of the locals whinged on about how much better it was in the past and tried to save anything that was old regardless of the state it was in (there was a second "Bradford's Bouncing Back" campaign in the 1990's which was hindered by the race riots in the city). Whilst they may not be far apart geographically historically the likes of Sheffield, Rotherham, Barnsley, Doncaster and Wakefield are quite different to the likes of Leeds and Bradford and nowadays I think Leeds has more in common with London than it has in common with Sheffield (although the idea put about by some Leeds people that Leeds is the "London of the North" is laughable and stupid).

I'm not saying that Sheffield and other parts of South Yorkshire are a paradise inhabited solely by friendly working class people but I think that the problems such as anti-social behaviour, crime committed by drug addicts and crimes of violence committed by drug dealers and armed robbers are more severe in Leeds because the belief that society is divided into sheep and wolves and that you are better off behaving like a wolf because if you behave like a sheep you will be eaten by a wolf is much more widely held in Leeds than it is in Sheffield. Some people may believe that Sheffield isn't the safe and friendly place it was a few years ago and some people may believe that the regeneration of Leeds has been more successful than the regeneration of Sheffield and whilst both those statements may be true I think it is also true that Leeds has undergone a process of degeneration (which I first noticed as a frequent visitor to Leeds in the early 1990's) which has created a city with no soul and a lot of heartless people.

Thanks for your comprehensive posting, Fingers.

I believe one cause of banter (if not rivalry) between Sheffield and Leeds was that Sheffield steelworkers didn't recognise the North Yorkshire textile industry as being the work of 'real men'.

Basically the rivalry from Sheffield towards Leeds is because its natural instinc for humans to have a rivalry with their neighbours, and because Leeds is the biggest of our neighbours then that is the case.

As for Leeds people they tend to not have much feeling towards Sheffield, but do towards Manchester.

One of the reasons I moved to Sheffield is a) because I think it's ace and b) because I can be in Leeds/Manchester/Nottingham?derby?birmingham, all in around an hour.

So embrace and travel and rejoice in what really is nearly on your doorstep I say!

Hi Fingers. Glad you agree with my little theory. I found your analyses highly plausible too, especially regarding Bradford.

It is true about people in Leeds not having a problem with Sheffield, probably because they do not currently perceive Sheffield to be a rival city.

I recently went to a friend's birthday party who lives in Leeds and was chatting with lots of his friends from Leeds and many of them commented about how nice Sheffield was and that it's alot better than it used to be.

Although on the otherhand one of my friends from Leeds made the comment that Leeds was classy and chic and Sheffield was trampy and when they last visited Sheffield they couldn't wait to leave. (Hmm not sure when or where he visited though..)

But he also made a ridiculous comment that in the next 25 years it's estimated with the current speed of Leeds growth that Leeds would overtake London in terms of importance and size!

Needless to say I took his comments with a pinch of salt.

Sheffield and Leeds are both great cities who out-weigh each other in lots of different aspects.

I would rather be pro-Yorkshire, than pro-Sheffield or Leeds.

And today visited Nottingham. Now that on the other hand wasn't what I expected. In terms of shops it beats Sheffield of course but I did find Nottingham quite dirty and full of chavs..
I could be wrong, but these were my impressions... Smallish shopping centres like the victoria centre are a good idea, especially when it rains, its a shame sheffield hasn't even got anything like that.
I was certainly impressed by Leeds, not by nottingham..

I know I droned on in my last post but the reason why I am so interested in this issue is because I used to really like Leeds. I lived in Bradford for a few years in the early 1990's and the atmosphere in the city was so poisonous at that time (it was obvious to me that it was only a matter of time before there was a riot) so I got out of the city at every available opportunity and Leeds was one of the places I visited frequently. Around that time in Leeds there was a small but promising (for want of a better word) "alternative" scene made up of people who were interested in making something other than money such as artists, political activists and writers and it felt as if Leeds could become like Manchester, Liverpool or Sheffield, a place where creative people could make great work.

However, whilst that was happening the council in Leeds were more interested in making Leeds a centre for retailing and particularly upmarket retailing and a lot of effort was put into regenerating part of the centre of Leeds whilst the outskirts and even some parts of the city centre were neglected because they were not a high priority and because it was thought that the increased wealth created by the regeneration of the city centre would trickle down to those areas. This policy did lead to the regeneration of parts of Leeds city centre, the construction of shiny new buildings and the opening of expensive new shops, restaurants and bars but unsurprisingly this did not lead to the regeneration of the rest of Leeds city centre or the rest of Leeds. However, it did make Leeds a magnet for shallow, vain or greedy people who think about little else other than making money or spending money and also for the most ruthless violent criminals who prefer to prey on shallow, vain and greedy people because it is more lucrative than robbing old people for their pensions outside post offices.

Whilst the centre of Leeds is still superficially impressive a lot of what is beneath, poking through or not covered by the blanket of largely self-generated hype about Leeds is downright disturbing. I used to think Bradford (with its notorious inner city areas such as Manningham and its rougher estates, some of which were not as notorious) was rougher than Leeds but now I think that Leeds is rougher and that Chapeltown and Harehills aren't even the roughest parts of Leeds. However, if you are prepared to put up with the increased risk of being a victim of crime that comes from living in or working in Leeds if you want to make money I would still recommend relocating to Leeds. If you want to make something other than money don't even waste your time thinking about relocating to Leeds: go somewhere else where you will be more likely to get the chance to demonstrate your imagination, intellect and skill and those qualities are more likely to be appreciated such as London, Manchester and Liverpool and hopefully Sheffield which will resist the temptation to follow the bad example of Leeds.

So are the outskirts of Leeds not as nice as Sheffield's in your opinion? Does Leeds city centre not reflect the rest of the city??

Originally posted by Sony
So are the outskirts of Leeds not as nice as Sheffield's in your opinion? Does Leeds city centre not reflect the rest of the city??

Sony, I think the outskirts of Sheffield are much better than the outskirts of Leeds. Whilst there are rough areas in Sheffield I don't think anywhere in Sheffield is as rough as the worst areas of Leeds such as Little London, Woodhouse, Chapeltown, Harehills, Halton Moor, Seacroft, Gipton, East End Park, Beeston and Burley. If you also consider the settings of both cities (Sheffield on the edge of the Peak District, Leeds too far from the Yorkshire Dales for them to have any effect on its topography) there is absolutely no competition but even if you only consider things created by humans the Sheffield area is more impressive than the Leeds area.

Leeds city centre certainly does not reflect the rest of the city. A large part of the city centre has been shaped with the aim of attracting the custom of the city's wealthiest residents (who mainly live in the villages/suburbs on the borough's northern and western edges or in new city centre apartments), the wealthiest residents of other parts of Yorkshire and other visitors to the city. It barely reflects the city's inner city areas or even its suburbs such as Pudsey, Horsforth and Garforth which are slums when compared to the suburbs of some other towns and cities (there are suburbs of Barnsley and Doncaster which are more pleasant than some suburbs of Leeds). Besides, Leeds is also Yorkshire's regional centre so some parts of Leeds city centre are a reflection of the corporate culture of major national or international organisations rather than the people who happen to be from Leeds. You can walk a mile or two out of Leeds city centre and feel as if you are walking out of one city and into another.

thanks a lot for your informative article!!

I've lived in leeds for the past 2 years and lived in sheffield for a good few years before that but still visit sheffield and think its a great city.

but i noticed this thread and one from ages back from about the relative sizes and thought some of the ideas very misleading.

it was said that the leeds population includes wakefield etc this is ridiculous the accepted leeds population is about 50,000 more than sheffield and less than 600,000 (not 750,000!).
The only places that it includes of any size which are not integral parts of the leeds conurbation are wetherby and otley- both small towns with a combined population less than 20,000. similar to how stocksbridge is included in sheffields population due too it being part of the same local authority.

i agree that the whole idea of populations has got ridiculous in this country and there should be an accepted list of town sizes based purely on the actual town. to me this reaches its limit in things like the wigan situation and closer to home wakefield.

wakefield city has a population of roughly 60,000 but it size is given as about 6 times as big as this includes other towns such as castleford which are not and never have been part of wakefield! (although part of the same council area).

finally someone was right when they said its a bit sad all this slagging of leeds off in sheffield - doing it does sheffireld no favours. In leeds sheffield is not slagged off its very rarely mentioned- something which i think says everything...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fingers
[B]Sony, I think the outskirts of Sheffield are much better than the outskirts of Leeds. Whilst there are rough areas in Sheffield I don't think anywhere in Sheffield is as rough as the worst areas of Leeds such as Little London, Woodhouse, Chapeltown, Harehills, Halton Moor, Seacroft, Gipton, East End Park, Beeston and Burley. .

It barely reflects the city's inner city areas or even its suburbs such as Pudsey, Horsforth and Garforth which are slums when compared to the suburbs of some other towns and cities (there are suburbs of Barnsley and Doncaster which are more pleasant than some suburbs of Leeds).


Admittedly some of those areas in Leeds arent too nice but the arguments slightly undermined by saying thatthere are no areas in sheffield as bad. Burley is hardly rough and woodhouse quite nice in parts and to say their in the league of parsons cross, southey green, shire green , darnall, brromhall, sharrow etc is ridiculous.

and horsforth a slum... makes about as much sense as saying fulwood is!

How can Sheffield compete when Leeds have Christa Ackroyd and Look North?! Afterall, Leeds is Yorkshire where Look North are concerned :loopy:

Leeds is so over-rated, there's nothing unique about the place at all, it isn't famous for anything, it's a cultural desert, and all the cities best achievements have been done bigger and better elsewhere and why the hell does Leeds smell so bad?

Yeah Look North is a prime example of the ignorance and self hype culture that is rife within Leeds.

Leeds City Council is one of the biggest offenders of this overhype rentlessly spewing out their manipulated statistics to its residents, no wonder half of them are so deluded!

Mention Manchester and Birmingham to them and their world starts to crumble around them!

Leave them to it I say, they only make themselves sound uneducated and arrogant at the end of the day.

Sheffield is still Yorkshires best kept secret!

Just love this!: Emporis is one of the world's most respected, widely utilized sources for research, ratings, statistics and analysis and place's Sheffield before Leeds in it's list of biggest cities within the UK.

http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/co/?id=100053

Originally posted by skyfitsboy
Anyone know why Leeds smells so bad?

It's probably all the thick, smelly, ignorant Mancs who live / work there

Fordcortina, I didn't say Horsforth is "a slum". I said that some of the suburbs of Leeds such as Pudsey, Horsforth and Garforth "are slums when compared to the suburbs of some other towns and cities". Horsforth may be nicer than many other parts of Leeds but there are far nicer places to live in West and South Yorkshire. As for Burley hardly being rough you must be confusing it with somewhere else because the Burley I know is packed with dilapidated back-to-back terraces mostly inhabited by students who are frequently preyed on by local robbers and burglars (it's not been unknown for 500 student houses to be burgled on Christmas Day and another 500 to be burgled on New Year's Day, the days when the houses are least likely to be occupied).

Whilst parts of Sheffield are rough and may be getting rougher the roughest areas of Leeds and Bradford are in a different league to the rough areas of Sheffield and have been for at least a decade largely as a result of the presence of staggering numbers of heroin and crack addicts, a huge problem which has received far less coverage (particularly in the so-called local media) than joyriders, paedophiles and asylum seekers. Giving the levels of hard drug addiction or truancy or racist abuse towards non-whites more coverage could have undermined the argument that some in the local media wanted to put forward (that non-white immigrants are the main cause of the area's problems) and wouldn't have been popular with their predominately white and largely elderly target audience so these issues have been avoided whenever possible. However, this attempt at collective denial and the massively disproportional amount of almost exclusively fawning coverage given to one particular shop in Leeds have failed to sweep these problems under the carpet because the scale of those problems in Leeds is huge.

P.S. Whilst the slagging off of Leeds may seem indicative of an inferiority complex Leeds has a superiority complex and here's one story which I have heard which I think illustrates it. When The Stone Roses played in Leeds the crowd chanted "We are Leeds" at the band as they came on stage. Eventually Ian Brown said "This is Leeds" and then Mani began playing the bassline to "I Wanna Be Adored". Would the crowd at a gig anywhere else in the UK chant something like "We are Sheffield" or "We are Manchester", never mind chant it at a band from another city which was far superior to any of that city's own bands?

Whatever happens, lets hope Sheffield catches up a lot, can;t really understand why some companies like muji, habitat and the likes aren't attracted to Sheffileld as surlely a lot of us have got to travel up to leeds or down to n'gham to get to these shops....

i think look north is crap, all they ever talk about is leeds, they might aswell rename it look leeds

'self-hype culture' -seems to fit leeds perfectly.

Went shopping in leeds last week-very disappointed, went shopping in sheffield today and really enjoyed it-much less claustrophobic and much prettier on the whole(i.e. fargate,pinstone street, devonshire quarter)

*lights touch paper and runs*

again!

oh man, ok, they're both good in different ways for different reasons. Sheffield is nicer to live in, Leeds has a lot more going on in terms of nightlife.

I have mates in both, so I like them both.

*wonders how long before threads are merged* :s

Well if you like burned out cars,
dirty scutters
and iditoc morons, look no further than leeds







possibly parts of sheffield too lol

Kinda depends what you're looking for....

Leeds has a Harvey Nicols....then again....I don't need one. Although Mrs P. would like one...:)

And I don't think there's a LeedsForum site like this.

Care to be more specific, or are you looking for a simle, gut-level feel. If the latter, the fact that I live in Sheffield and contribute to teh Sheffield Forum indicates that I prefer Sheffield.

Joe

Sheffield rules! Leeds has its merits but Sheffield outclasses it in most areas IMO.

Well i guess there is the obvious catagories isn't there (in no paticular order)-

Housing-
Public Transport-
Cleanliness-
Shopping-
Schools-
Safety-
Jobs-

Feel free to add more.

You might want to have a look here (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15598)

Originally posted by mr craig
You might want to have a look here (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15598)

Thanks mr craig, similar threads merged.

I've lived in Sheffield all my 39 year's.....but alway's supported LEEDS UNITED.
Strange really,as all my family are Blades.
I love Sheffield,but have to say it is'nt a patch on Leeds.
Not alway's been like that though.......
Leeds seem's to have blossomed as a city over the last 10 year's,whereas Sheffield seem's to have gone backward's.

Suppose we can blame our 'crazy' councillor's for that !




oh............'we'll be back' !!

Meadowhall has screwed the life out of Sheffield city centre

Leeds doesn't have the same problem

Originally posted by killthedj
Meadowhall has screwed the life out of Sheffield city centre



agree wholeheartedly, i remember my mum said this when it first opened but as a kid i thought it was great, now i realise what a dive it is! its completely stripped the city centre of a large percentage of its shops, and many shops which do open dont survive due to lack of business. however i believe they're opening an indoor precinct on fargate, in the building above footlocker etc - hopefully this will get some people back into town.

Originally posted by Beth
agree wholeheartedly, i remember my mum said this when it first opened but as a kid i thought it was great, now i realise what a dive it is! its completely stripped the city centre of a large percentage of its shops, and many shops which do open dont survive due to lack of business. however i believe they're opening an indoor precinct on fargate, in the building above footlocker etc - hopefully this will get some people back into town.

I don't htink it's lack of bussiness, I think it's the huge rates costs. it's very easy to blame Meadowhall, but all it did was give the shops in Sheffield city centre a choice to move to somewhere that woudl charge them less rent, so they took it.

If the rates in the city centre were the same as Meadowhall do you think House Of Fraser would have up-sticks and moved that huge department store, you only make a move like that for good financial reasons. I bet they have no more customers now than they did in town, but I bet they pay a lot less out.

so what makes the rates in town more expensive? im not disagreeing, but i would hazard a guess that meadowhall gets more customers if only for the late opening and free parking. it seems to be a bit of a vicious circle, i just prefer town to smelly cramped meadowhell especially at christmas and it makes me sad to see shops boarded up and empty

Im sure rent must be higher in Meadowhall than in the city centre. If not, its the return per £ of rent that sways it then,

Meadowhall is easy to get to, not just if you live in Sheffield either. It has free, plentiful parking.

The city centre is a nightmare to get into and parking is extortionate!

Until the access issue is resolved, Meadowhall will always seems the more convenient option.

The rise of inner-city living will help the city centre recover some lost trade though, as this is set to boom in coming years, with 20 storey residential towers proposed for Moorfoot.

I don't know how rents in Meadowhall compare with Sheffield city centre and I doubt I could get any figures as they would probably be commercially confidential. However, what may have tempted some retailers into Meadowhall was reduced rents for the first few years of their tenancy and I know of at least one retailer which had a shop in Meadowhall for a few years but left after their rent went up significantly when they ceased to qualify for reduced rents. A few years ago I read somewhere that there was a waiting list of retailers wanting to open branches at Meadowhall and that probably explains why a few years ago Meadowhall offered or wanted to offer "leases with 5-yearly upward-only rent reviews".

http://bestinvest.uk-wire.com/cgi-bin/articles/200111281712348707N.html

http://www.britishland.com/financialreports/YearEnd2004/content/british.htm

If I had to guess I would say that the cost of renting a unit in Meadowhall would be higher than the cost of renting a shop of the same size in Sheffield city centre but that many retailers are prepared to pay higher rents and higher costs created by longer opening hours because the potential turnover of a Meadowhall store makes it worthwhile. If a mall the size of Meadowhall had been built a few miles outside Leeds at the same time as Meadowhall I would have expected it to have a similar effect on Leeds city centre and other parts of West Yorkshire as Meadowhall has had on Sheffield and other parts of South Yorkshire. The Meadowhall effect is not a unique local phenomenon: it's largely the consequence of wider processes.

i agree its not a sheffield phenomenon, its a logical course of events although the trafford centre doesnt seem to have had a detramental effect on manchester city centre

Originally posted by Beth
i agree its not a sheffield phenomenon, its a logical course of events although the trafford centre doesnt seem to have had a detramental effect on manchester city centre

I agree that the Trafford Centre hasn't had much of an effect on Manchester city centre but then the Trafford Centre is relatively new and in a few years it may have an effect. However, the places that seem to be affected most by malls are not the cities closest to them such as Sheffield and Manchester: they are the towns within a half-hour's or hour's drive or train/bus journey of them.

As for whether or not this course of events is logical that's another question and I don't think I can post my answer on this messageboard.

Originally posted by Fingers


As for whether or not this course of events is logical that's another question and I don't think I can post my answer on this messageboard.

? I just meant logical in the sense that if somewhere offers indoor shopping, late opening hours and free parking then its easy to see why people dont shop in towns anymore, whats unpostable about that subject?! C'mon...

Beth, I can see the advantages that Meadowhall and malls like it have over city centres (and particularly one as spread out and open as Sheffield) and things like providing greater access for disabled people and people with very young children and increasing security in public places should be welcomed and encouraged everywhere. However, I see the building of Meadowhall (and particularly its success and subsequent growth) as being indicative of social trends that I do not welcome. It may be popular with people who can't think of anything else to do with their spare time other than go shopping (who should get a life) and particularly popular with people who are particularly concerned with being seen to be fashionable (who should grow up) but just because lots of people like something that doesn't mean that it's right.

Some people may like Meadowhall's late night and Sunday opening all year round and opening until 10p.m. in the run-up to Christmas but how many of those people will be people who work at Meadowhall and how many of them will be people who come and go when they please? Meadowhall may have lots of parking spaces (although if you work in a shop there you are not supposed to use the car parks near the centre in the run-up to Christmas and are supposed to use an overflow car park instead) but how many people who work at Meadowhall won't be able afford a car because they are paid just above the minimum wage and will have to use public transport services to get to and from work, assuming there are some? Meadowhall may be a warm place to go on a cold winter day but it can be unbearable in summer and when people who are ill go there they can end up giving their colds, flu or whatever other illnesses spread easily through a warm air-conditioned building to other people.

Meadowhall and its ilk may be successes in their own terms but in other terms (such as their effect on the environment or the long-term health of the economy) they are not a success. I wish that the idea of out-of-town shopping complexes had never been thought of or that permission for their construction had not been granted but sadly they are here now and sadly Sheffield has a particularly sad one. Maybe one day enough people will realise what a mistake they were (and that's the least unpleasant thing I think of to say about the people responsible for Meadowhall and its ilk and I have thought of things that are very unpleasant) but I don't think that's likely and I fear a similar mistake has been made with the massive growth in the number of pubs/bars/clubs in the last decade and another is about to be made with the advent of super-casinos.

there you go, wasnt so offensive... lol i dont disagree, i used to work at meadowhall myself so im more than familiar with its treatment of staff, how unpleasently busy it is etc especially at christmas and during the sales, and dont choose to go there unless it can be avoided. neither does anyone i know, for most of my friends and family its the convenience factor which leads me to think improvements and regeneration in town will get more people back there, then again maybe im being idealistic. heres hoping...

I do like shopping in town, when it's warm and sunny, but in the rain and wind it's not a pleasant experience.

I only realy go on special shopping trips to buy clothes anyway, so I go to Division Street as thats where the good clothes shops are, I don't realy need anything the shops on Fargate (mobile phones) or the Moor (cheap crap) sell.

Though if I'm after something realy fashionable (I should grow up) I go to Leeds.

Just about teverything I buy on a weekly basis can be got from ASDA or London Road, which is a 10 minute walk away.

Once the city centre has been done-up I might use it for more, but until then there is very little to attract me as a customer in the daytime.