On TV this morning was a bloke and his wife. He admitted to slapping her often and for the slightest reasons, and she said...
That she deserves it.
She deserves the slappings.

This bloke said he couldnt help it because he sees red and doesnt know what hes doing.

Now.
Its pretty well known and said that no man, no matter what the circumstances, should ever hit a woman, BUT.

If shes attacking a man? If SHES the one doing the attacking and he defends himself? What then?

Personally Ive never raised my hand to a woman, but ive come bloody close to it on a number of occasions with my ex.

What about you? What do you think?
Have you ever had to defend yourself against your other half, male or female?
Remember women are also capable of domestic violence.
Have you ever been sorely tempted?
Do you know someone in that situation?

If a woman attacks her partner, he should of course defend himself. In most cases, the man is stronger than the woman, and should be able to physically restrain her without resorting to hitting her.

If a woman attacks her partner, he should of course defend himself. In most cases, the man is stronger than the woman, and should be able to physically restrain her without resorting to hitting her.
I agree.
But some people like to inflict pain on their other half. Admittedly its usually men hurting women and its rarely a single slapping, i knew a bloke who used to find the slightest reason for hitting his wife and shes still with him. Her self-esteem is so low that she seems to accept it without question.

There is no excuse for violence, physical wounds heal, psychological damage lasts a life time:hihi:

If a woman attacks her partner, he should of course defend himself. In most cases, the man is stronger than the woman, and should be able to physically restrain her without resorting to hitting her.

why should he have to?
If a small bloke hit him in the pub he'd be acting in self defence by hitting him back.
If a woman hits it, it's exactly the same.

Sexual equality - if you attack me, i'll defend myself, man, woman or whatever else, and that means that one of us is going to get hurt.

Interesting that people are saying domestic violence is normally men hitting women.
There's a real problem (apparently, so say the reports) in domestic violence towards men. The problem is that they are unlikely to report it for various reasons (even more unlikely than women that is) and that when reported it is very rarely taken seriously by the police.

my mams ex husband used to batter her all the time for years and for stupid reasons, i couldnt understand how she stayed with him but she insisted she loved him and when he was being nice he was really nice...... cowardly little b******d he was, pick on her but backed down from blokes who caused arguments with him.

My hubby has never hit me, he wouldnt dream of it and god i wind him up enuff im sure :hihi: he once shoved me away cos i went for him with a pan of brocolli and i slipped and banged my back ...... ooooo that got me loadsa new gear :hihi:

blokes dont hit women only cowards do..
having said that ive seen some really huge evil looking women with scrawny little men that dint look like they could even lift themselves outta the bath so i spose if that women hit them they are entitled to have a go back :|

There is no excuse for violence, physical wounds heal, psychological damage lasts a life time:hihi:
thats so true never a true words spoken:thumbsup:

I bit my other halfs big toe last year because she was holding it under my nose as i was trying to watch tv and i bit a little too hard and broke the skin.
Shes never let me forget that.


Do blokes who hit women hit men too? The feeling is usually that men who hit women are too cowardly to start on another bloke.

I bit my other halfs big toe last year because she was holding it under my nose as i was trying to watch tv and i bit a little too hard and broke the skin.
Shes never let me forget that.


Do blokes who hit women hit men too? The feeling is usually that men who hit women are too cowardly to start on another bloke.
i think that too jabber n same with mental abuse:thumbsup:

i think that too jabber n same with mental abuse:thumbsup:
Well Id certainly never bite a blokes toe. :D

This topic has got be Trisha Special!

why should he have to?
Do I really have to explain that?

If a bloke in the pub was hit by a smaller, weaker person of whatever gender, the sensible thing to do would be to restrain that person, if at all possible. That way, the prospect of serious damage to either party is minimised.
Sexual equality - if you attack me, i'll defend myself, man, woman or whatever else, and that means that one of us is going to get hurt.
Does defending yourself have to mean retaliating in kind, even though you'd be capable of responding in a way in which you and your partner (or whoever) wouldn't get any more hurt than they had to?

This topic has got be Trisha Special!
I was going to add "Text your name to tricia " too.

Have you ever had to defend yourself against your other half, male or female?


Indeed I have. It's quite remarkable thinking about it years later.

We were totally incompatible, she being tempestuous and I mild-mannered. Ideally I used to run away to the pub for a couple of hours, but occasionally I had to physically restrain her until she had calmed down. I never hit her though, she would have enjoyed that, a nice bruise to show her family how bad I was.

I must say, it wasn't the best environment to bring up the children.

Do I really have to explain that?

If a bloke in the pub was hit by a smaller, weaker person of whatever gender, the sensible thing to do would be to restrain that person, if at all possible. That way, the prospect of serious damage to either party is minimised.

Does defending yourself have to mean retaliating in kind, even though you'd be capable of responding in a way in which you and your partner (or whoever) wouldn't get any more hurt than they had to?

It depends. I guess you've never had to restrain someone who is seriously trying to hurt you. It's not as easy as it sounds. Unless the size difference is >50% body weight, then it's certainly not a trivial exercise and puts you at more risk as you attempt to do it since you are well within range and have both hands busy so can't protect your face or vital bits.

Indeed I have. It's quite remarkable thinking about it years later.

We were totally incompatible, she being tempestuous and I mild-mannered. Ideally I used to run away to the pub for a couple of hours, but occasionally I had to physically restrain her until she had calmed down. I never hit her though, she would have enjoyed that, a nice bruise to show her family how bad I was.

I must say, it wasn't the best environment to bring up the children.
i agree with you blip;)

I bit my other halfs big toe last year because she was holding it under my nose as i was trying to watch tv
Something good on then?

Something good on then?
Yeah something about breast enlargements. How can anyone expect me to miss that?!?!?
Id bite a Bengal Tiger in half if it came between my and my breasts.


ok that sounded wierd...

i had a drunken women attack me once in town with work!!! outside the forum when we were all out with work, she was going to attack a fellow female employee, so like a stupid sod i steped in the way of them, i ended up with a cut under 1 eye and the other one was black! and at no point did i raise my fists to her, i put her to the ground (without hurting her) and rested on her arms so she couldn't do anything. after 10 mins of her screaming and people looking at me funny she finally apologised and wsent on her way!!

Surely this i the ultimate level of discrimination. It should make no difference if someone attacking you has boobs or not, they're just a person.
If they're small enough to safely restrain then fine, but I doubt many guys would think that for a small guy attacking them, they'd pop them and leave them sat on the floor holding their nose.

Surely this i the ultimate level of discrimination. It should make no difference if someone attacking you has boobs or not, they're just a person.
If they're small enough to safely restrain then fine, but I doubt many guys would think that for a small guy attacking them, they'd pop them and leave them sat on the floor holding their nose.
Jabbers' original post was about domestic violence. If a man was hit by his (in this example) female partner, would his first response be to 'pop her and leave her sat on the floor holding her nose'? I think the situation is different from being hit by some random bloke in the pub.

dont lay a paw on me & i,ll treat like as like but if people come to hurt me ,i will also treat like as like. if i find myself
having a set to with a woman i always insist we strip to the waist london prize ring rules

I'm not sure I would be able to stay calm and "restrain" a woman if she came at me with a carving knife like in Fatal Attraction.

its seems to be more acceptable to hit a woman lookin at these tvs shows example "yeh i hit her but she was nagging me" etc like its a normal thing, when my missus nags me i close my eyes and picture me dropping a tv on her head but i would never do it! its called self control. i understand if a man is being attacked its ok to restrain a woman but to beat her is never right

I'm not sure I would be able to stay calm and "restrain" a woman if she came at me with a carving knife like in Fatal Attraction.
Wel, that would be more a common sense, judgement call sort of thing...

I'm not sure I would be able to stay calm and "restrain" a woman if she came at me with a carving knife like in Fatal Attraction.


yeah 9ts different if you didn't know her, i knew the girl who hit me, so i couldn't really turn round and kock her out could i!! if it was a stranger, i think i'd just keep putting them to the floor till they got tired or hurt themselves in the fall!! if on the other hand they had a weapon.. think that would be different

There is no excuse for violence, physical wounds heal, psychological damage lasts a life time:hihi:
Very true psycological wounds never properly heal, and can change a persons life forever... but i fail to see what is funny about that?
I for one wouldn't want that on my conseience :(

It doesn't matter which gender is doing the hitting and which being hit- it's still wrong.

Defending yourself without the risk of hurting the other person is a totally hit and miss thing though, so it's hard to condemn people who hurt others while defending themselves. I have hurt people while defending myself in the past. I'm not proud of it, and I'd rather it didn't happen, but I wasn't about to let him thump me any more.

Very true psycological wounds never properly heal, and can change a persons life forever... but i fail to see what is funny about that?
I for one wouldn't want that on my conseience :(

Agreed, it was wrong, having a bad couple of days (no excuse). My apologies to everyone,

I was the victim of physical abuse in a relationship, hard to imagine if you met me. We split up after she repeatedly attacked me when drunk, culminating with her nearly knocking me out with a dinning room chair. Then she got me arrested! When the chair hit me I staggered a bit and smashed the glass in her back door (council house) with my elbow.

When I got to the police station and went through the rigmarole, turns out she had stabbed one ex and bitten a blokes ear off in a fight near the frog and parrot, so i was well out of it.

So thoughtless and tasteless sorry!

I've never been hit but my ex reeeeeally used to scare me, and he'd get really close to my face, and then walk away and punch something else. I didn't used to wind him up purpously.

We just disagreed on a lot of stuff, I am sooo glad we split up!

p.s. it wasn't Preacher Man in case anybody was thinking it was!

why should he have to?
If a small bloke hit him in the pub he'd be acting in self defence by hitting him back.


Presumably you're talking about a stranger who comes up and starts a fight? Or at the most a drinking buddy.

Hardly the same as smacking the person you're supposedly in love with when you know full well that you're bigger and stronger than her.

Why would you even want to hit her back? Okay, so she's hit you. Two wrongs don't make a right. Are you so bullish that you'd actually want to clobber your girlfriend just because she lashed out first?

I'm not defending women who hit their partners. I think hitting anyone you love is dusgusting. But I do think men who lash out in retaliation are pretty weak and pathetic. Either turn and walk away from the relationship or get some couple counselling, but don't descend into a fist fight.

iv never been hit the mentalpart is bad enough:(

There's a difference between 'lashing out in retaliation' and defending yourself from further harm.
I've not been in the situation myself but I'd like to think I would do the latter, but if someone's coming at me with a chair as above, then I couldn't guarantee what I would do.
If you're genuinely afraid of serious injury, you do whatever is necessary to try and prevent that.

if someone intends you harm strike first

if someone intends you harm strike first
Even when that person is considerably smaller and weaker than you, and possibly someone you love?

yes. my cousin was in a relationship she stabbed him he died

I've never been hit but my ex reeeeeally used to scare me, and he'd get really close to my face, and then walk away and punch something else. I didn't used to wind him up purpously.

We just disagreed on a lot of stuff, I am sooo glad we split up!

p.s. it wasn't Preacher Man in case anybody was thinking it was!

glad hes your ex

yes. my cousin was in a relationship she stabbed him he died
Well, if the person is holding a potentially lethal weapon, then you'd try to do what you could to disarm them.

Sorry to hear about your cousin.

Surely this i the ultimate level of discrimination. It should make no difference if someone attacking you has boobs or not, they're just a person.
If they're small enough to safely restrain then fine, but I doubt many guys would think that for a small guy attacking them, they'd pop them and leave them sat on the floor holding their nose.

agreed to a point, but surely it's down to size advantage? i'd not smack someone smaller than me, male or female.

my chap just made quite a good point though - if some mad woman was trying to hurt our daughter or steal her or something he wouldn't hesitate to deck her. no restraining where the babby is concerned.

Agreed, it was wrong, having a bad couple of days (no excuse). My apologies to everyone,

I was the victim of physical abuse in a relationship, hard to imagine if you met me. We split up after she repeatedly attacked me when drunk, culminating with her nearly knocking me out with a dinning room chair. Then she got me arrested! When the chair hit me I staggered a bit and smashed the glass in her back door (council house) with my elbow.

When I got to the police station and went through the rigmarole, turns out she had stabbed one ex and bitten a blokes ear off in a fight near the frog and parrot, so i was well out of it.

So thoughtless and tasteless sorry!
Truly sorry to hear about what happened to you xircon, there is no excuse for that behavior wether male or female, hurting someone you should love and cherish is nothing to do with love at all it's all about power and control, no one should ever have to experience physical or mental abuse ever!
Hope things look brighter for you over the weekend :)

I would have to agree that to hit a woman is low and degrading to the man as well as terrible for the woman but I can see times where it may be OK.

I have done so once when a woman at work was punching me on the arm very hard almost every day. She was doing so to provoke a responce from me. I left it for weeks with verbal warnings to her to stop then one day after getting sick of the bruises I told her if she did it again I would return it.
She punched me on the arm again so I returned the favour.
She never did it again but I still felt like a ******* for having done it even with the provocation.

if you hit,then you should expect to be hit back,ive known women punch the lights out of their bloke just because they knew he would not hit them back,its humiliating,and they know it,so its a form of torture,showing them up in front of their friends to look big, the first time the man turns round and thinks,no,im not bieng shown up,the women wonder what the hell is happening and start screaming violent partner,
yet ive seen blokes slap the women for nothing at all,bully boys,when they get pulled up for it they usually back off,but then hammer the lady even more when they get home because their manhood status was challenged, its up to the individual,some actually like to be dominated,men and women

if you hit,then you should expect to be hit back,ive known women punch the lights out of their bloke just because they knew he would not hit them back,its humiliating,and they know it,so its a form of torture,showing them up in front of their friends to look big, the first time the man turns round and thinks,no,im not bieng shown up,the women wonder what the hell is happening and start screaming violent partner,
yet ive seen blokes slap the women for nothing at all,bully boys,when they get pulled up for it they usually back off,but then hammer the lady even more when they get home because their manhood status was challenged, its up to the individual,some actually like to be dominated,men and women

Pretty much spot on depoix. It is all about power relations really, nto gender - who is scared to leave, who is afraid to speak out, who is worried of being on their own, who thinks they deserve to be hit. It could be a man or a woman.

Pretty much spot on depoix. It is all about power relations really, nto gender - who is scared to leave, who is afraid to speak out, who is worried of being on their own, who thinks they deserve to be hit. It could be a man or a woman.i suppose if they get the match right they could have a happy relationship,but it must take some searching and heartbreak to find some one who is on the same wave length.theres a couple near me who use the same pub, he is a good 20years older than her, she comes in with the odd bruise,he comes in with stitches where she has stabbed him bashed him etc, he always says,he deserved it for bieng drunk,she says she deserves it for hitting him,they have been on the jerremy kyle show, nothing has altered they still beat each other,but have told me,they wouldnt swap each other for anything, its love,in its strangest form i suppose, yet if i was to slap her or him,i would say they would join forces to hit me back,violence within a relationship is a very private and personnal thing,it makes or breaks a marrage,its not for me,ive been there, and am not a fan of it

I bit my other halfs big toe last year because she was holding it under my nose as i was trying to watch tv and i bit a little too hard and broke the skin.
Shes never let me forget that.


Do blokes who hit women hit men too? The feeling is usually that men who hit women are too cowardly to start on another bloke.

I know a few very hard individuals, some old school and some nutters. I think all of them have a tendency to use their fists against anyone if needs be, male or female.

I spent 10 years being beaten by my ex till I was strong enough to get the help I needed to leave.
My partenr now of 11 years has never intentionally laid a finger on me. I can get quite aggressive in an argument (& I don't mean violent) & I believe its because of what I have already been through, yet my fella wouldn't dream of physicaly hurting me. He has pushed me away at the very most.
However in Jan this year I asked him to pass me the phone (cordless) & he threw it to me, hitting my nose. It broke my nose & bent it & I had to have surgery 2 weeks later. He was devastated, he was hurting more than my broken nose & he's never lived it down since, bless him.

My ex strangled me by kneeling on my stomach squeezing my neck with one hand with his other hand over my mouth and his thumb and forefinger nipping my nose, the CID said it was a professional attempt at strangulation. I fought him off by sticking my fingers in the back of his neck pressing on his nerves.He let go and fell to the floor holding his neck.His mother said that althoough he shouldn't have strangled me I equally shouldn't have in her opinion fought back by sticking my fingers in her neck even though it saved my life!
Obviously i think you should fight back in self defence, but once when he slapped myself and my baby in the face I didn't do anything as I could see it had stopped at that.

I know of one man who proudly boasts

"Ah wunt see NO man 'it a woman! A man that'd hit a woman is nowt but a coward!"

Yet this same man has severe memory failure about the way he pasted his wife, and his daughter, from here to kingdom come, with monotonous regularity, especially when he had had a few "jars".

no matter what the gender of the perpetrator, domestic violence is unacceptable in any form, be it physical or psychological.

I survived DV, and I hope that I am now stronger for coming out the other side.

I sometimes wonder if the psychological stuff was worse than the physical, cos my ex used to play little "tricks" on me, to convince me that I was losing my marbles.

I was completely undermined, and lost confidence in my own judgement. He very subtly eroded the ground underneath me, bit by bit. It was done so subtly, that I did not notice, at first.

it took a long time before I got my confidence back.

Presumably you're talking about a stranger who comes up and starts a fight? Or at the most a drinking buddy.

Hardly the same as smacking the person you're supposedly in love with when you know full well that you're bigger and stronger than her.

Why would you even want to hit her back? Okay, so she's hit you. Two wrongs don't make a right. Are you so bullish that you'd actually want to clobber your girlfriend just because she lashed out first?

I'm not defending women who hit their partners. I think hitting anyone you love is dusgusting. But I do think men who lash out in retaliation are pretty weak and pathetic. Either turn and walk away from the relationship or get some couple counselling, but don't descend into a fist fight.

Not hitting someone back because you love them is a very different argument to not hitting someone back because they are a woman, which is the argument most people are presenting.

Not hitting someone back because you love them is a very different argument to not hitting someone back because they are a woman, which is the argument most people are presenting.

True. But it's not the argument I'm presenting. And this thread does seem to be about violence within relationships - not violence towards random women in bars or on the street. So would you hit someone you were in a relationship with in the same way you would lash out at a bloke in the pub?

Personally I take a dim view of violence of any kind. But in my opinion there will always be something cowardly about hitting someone who is physically weaker than you, even if they have provoked you. However, I do accept that domestic violence is not just a woman's problem and it must be just as distressing for a man who has a violent female partner. I feel very sorry if that has happened to you Cyclone, but I suspect that you're just being bullish, in which case my original comments still stand, and I do hope you don't take this kind of mentality into your personal relationships.

I think punching a woman is harsh, which is why I'd opt for a dropkick.

I think punching a woman is harsh, which is why I'd opt for a dropkick.
i prefer a stone cold stunner or maybe a people's elbow if needed.:thumbsup:

True. But it's not the argument I'm presenting. And this thread does seem to be about violence within relationships - not violence towards random women in bars or on the street. So would you hit someone you were in a relationship with in the same way you would lash out at a bloke in the pub?

Personally I take a dim view of violence of any kind. But in my opinion there will always be something cowardly about hitting someone who is physically weaker than you, even if they have provoked you. However, I do accept that domestic violence is not just a woman's problem and it must be just as distressing for a man who has a violent female partner. I feel very sorry if that has happened to you Cyclone, but I suspect that you're just being bullish, in which case my original comments still stand, and I do hope you don't take this kind of mentality into your personal relationships.

I haven't thanks.

I'm not sure what you mean about 'this kind of mentality', do you mean my belief that everyone is equal, or that I should defend myself if need be?
Or was it the bit about not hitting someone I loved that you find strange?

After 47 years of marriage it has never entered my mind to hit my wife and would not dream of doing it.

I haven't thanks.

I'm not sure what you mean about 'this kind of mentality', do you mean my belief that everyone is equal, or that I should defend myself if need be?
Or was it the bit about not hitting someone I loved that you find strange?

Look I'm sorry but I don't know how to answer that, you're just bouncing my questions back at me. You don't seem to be considering my points at all.

A good politician you would make, but a good forum debater you do not.

If you believe that 'everyone is equal' and that you should 'defend yourself if need be', does that mean you condone violence towards women or not? Where do you draw the line? How do you stand if it was a child, or elderly person?

It's nice to have equality as a moral, but practically people will always be unequal in terms of size and strength. I think you have to use a certain amount of common sense and human compassion too.

It also takes a lot more wit and intelligence to defend yourself verbally or diffuse a heated situation by communicating with someone than it does to just lash out.

Look I'm sorry but I don't know how to answer that, you're just bouncing my questions back at me. You don't seem to be considering my points at all.

A good politician you would make, but a good forum debater you do not.

If you believe that 'everyone is equal' and that you should 'defend yourself if need be', does that mean you condone violence towards women or not? Where do you draw the line? How do you stand if it was a child, or elderly person?

It's nice to have equality as a moral, but practically people will always be unequal in terms of size and strength. I think you have to use a certain amount of common sense and human compassion too.


I would go further and say its nothing to do with size or strength but power. We all have the size and strength to run away while someone isn't looking (its not often you get situations where people are staying in an abusive relationship because they are literally unable to escape) but often in relationships one person holds the power over another.

Really what happens in abusive relationships is one person (the man or the woman) mentally abuses the other by belittling them and making them feel powerless, like they can't leave. This is wrong, no matter what gender the people involved are. Its a whole different kettle of fish from 'defending yourself if needs be'.

Personally, JBee, if I were to hit Cyclone (for example) randomly on the street, I would expect to be hit back! However, it doesn't matter how much I wind up my partner, he should never hit me, because he has a certain amount of power over me (ie, I love him, we have shared finances, etc). There's a massive difference.

hi, ive been physically and mentaly abused by my now ex partner. iam finding it hard to trust men now, even tho im now in a loving realtionship with the gentalist man on earth, unfortunatly hes now picking up the pieces. i hope no one ever has to go through what i went through.

Look I'm sorry but I don't know how to answer that, you're just bouncing my questions back at me. You don't seem to be considering my points at all.

A good politician you would make, but a good forum debater you do not.

If you believe that 'everyone is equal' and that you should 'defend yourself if need be', does that mean you condone violence towards women or not? Where do you draw the line? How do you stand if it was a child, or elderly person?

It's nice to have equality as a moral, but practically people will always be unequal in terms of size and strength. I think you have to use a certain amount of common sense and human compassion too.

It also takes a lot more wit and intelligence to defend yourself verbally or diffuse a heated situation by communicating with someone than it does to just lash out.

I've already made it pretty clear, but let me spell it out.

Women are no different to men. If a person attacks me I will defend myself.
Violence is unpleasant and unwanted, but I will not allow someone to hurt me because they happen to have boobs. If it were a child (I presume you mean a small one) then it would most likely be possible to defend myself passively. Against an average sized woman intent on causing damage I don't think the same would hold true.
I didn't say anything about lashing out, i'm quite capable of defending myself verbally (as i'm sure i've demonstrated on the forum). Self defence (at least physically) is something you do when someone else is 'lashing out'.

I did consider your points, but they seemed to be that women should have some special status whereby they could attack men with impunity. I don't agree with you. That's not a politicians answer, I think you're wrong, my answer is plain and is stated in the paragraph above.

Maybe it alters my perception that women train in my martial arts club (and have trained with me and taught me as well for the last 10 years). There are women in my club who are more capable of hurting someone than most of the men there, if they attacked you and you didn't take them seriously immediately you'd be going to hospital. Having boobs doesn't make you a weakling nor does it mean that your fists won't hurt when they hit someone.

None of what i'm saying here is in any way condoning domestic violence from either sex. The aggressor in any violent situation is almost always in the wrong, there are very few exceptions to that. Ultimately though if you're a women and you hit a bloke, I think you deserve to be hit back, just the same as if I (being a bloke) hit another bloke, or indeed a women.

Personally, JBee, if I were to hit Cyclone (for example) randomly on the street, I would expect to be hit back! However, it doesn't matter how much I wind up my partner, he should never hit me, because he has a certain amount of power over me (ie, I love him, we have shared finances, etc). There's a massive difference.

Exactly what I was trying to say, I just took a lot longer to say it.

I just don't like posts where people say "oh, you should never hit a woman" as if they'd stand there and let one beat them to death because 'hitting a woman is wrong'. It's pronounced like some moral absolute and it isn't.

I've already made it pretty clear, but let me spell it out.

Women are no different to men. If a person attacks me I will defend myself.
Violence is unpleasant and unwanted, but I will not allow someone to hurt me because they happen to have boobs. If it were a child (I presume you mean a small one) then it would most likely be possible to defend myself passively. Against an average sized woman intent on causing damage I don't think the same would hold true.
I didn't say anything about lashing out, i'm quite capable of defending myself verbally (as i'm sure i've demonstrated on the forum). Self defence (at least physically) is something you do when someone else is 'lashing out'.

I did consider your points, but they seemed to be that women should have some special status whereby they could attack men with impunity. I don't agree with you. That's not a politicians answer, I think you're wrong, my answer is plain and is stated in the paragraph above.

Maybe it alters my perception that women train in my martial arts club (and have trained with me and taught me as well for the last 10 years). There are women in my club who are more capable of hurting someone than most of the men there, if they attacked you and you didn't take them seriously immediately you'd be going to hospital. Having boobs doesn't make you a weakling nor does it mean that your fists won't hurt when they hit someone.

None of what i'm saying here is in any way condoning domestic violence from either sex. The aggressor in any violent situation is almost always in the wrong, there are very few exceptions to that. Ultimately though if you're a women and you hit a bloke, I think you deserve to be hit back, just the same as if I (being a bloke) hit another bloke, or indeed a women.

Have to admit Cyclone, I agree with what you are saying. I was brought up with my mum and dad saying that you treat everybody equal. Gender should have no bearing. Never once have I witnessed my dad hit my mum, or vice versa.

I mean, you see it on TV fairly frequently with a woman slapping a man or another woman. I've never come close to hitting a woman, but I've had to restrain my ex on a number of occasions. I have popped a guy down town before when he accused me of chucking a a drink in his girl's face. This was pure self-defence as he was coming at me with a champagne bottle. He found out I was the wrong guy and apologised holding his bloddy nose! But this was a few years ago mind.

I feel I do hold back at times especially where women are concerned because I have done a bit of boxing whilst at university, and I've been told I hit fairly hard by other guys I used to train with. My first and formost actions are defuse confrontations and just walk away as I cannot stand violence. And I think that's one of the reasons why I stopped doing boxing training.

Me and my current partner are expecting our first child, and although we have the occasional bicker, I've never thought about hitting her. But I have told her I will defend myself using force necessary if she came at me with a weapon. The key is knowing the difference between defending yourself and retaliation. I'm glad now that at aged 28, I know the difference.

I think punching a woman is harsh, which is why I'd opt for a dropkick.


i prefer a stone cold stunner or maybe a people's elbow if needed.

I don't think either of those comments were at all funny, or necessary.

Violence within a relationship (no matter what gender the perpetrator) is no laughing matter.

I don't think either of those comments were at all funny, or necessary.

Violence within a relationship (no matter what gender the perpetrator) is no laughing matter.

What if you accidentally on purpose threw a housebrick at the crazy bitch :)

Take them in the spirit they were meant PT, they're jokes, and pretty funny ones. Made me smile anyway.

I don't think either of those comments were at all funny, or necessary.

Violence within a relationship (no matter what gender the perpetrator) is no laughing matter.

You can tell when someone really means something and when they dont.

You really should watch Trisha more often:hihi:

I may be over sensitive on this issue, surviving domestic violence. (*raises hands*) that's fair enough.

However, If someone had posted a quip, in that vein, on, say child abuse, or racism, I think that we'd have been trampled in the sheer rush of folk speeding to condemn the comment.

Sexism, and violence against women (cos, come on, let's face it, the overwhelming majority of people who endure DV are female) seems to be a subject that it is still acceptable, and acceptable to make jokes about.

I apologise, if I appear to have my wet-blanket mode on, I just really don't think that DV is a joking matter.

There are very very few circumstances in which I would hit a MAN, and i would never , under any circumstances , hit a woman.
my form of self defence would simply be to walk away and keep on walking.

There are very very few circumstances in which I would hit a MAN, and i would never , under any circumstances , hit a woman.
my form of self defence would simply be to walk away and keep on walking.

Wth the frying pan (for example) being bounced of the back of your head. You wouldn't work very far then.
Dismissing women as incapable of hurting you is not only sexist, but it's bloody dangerous.

let's face it, the overwhelming majority of people who endure DV are female)
Simply not true, but unfortunately it's what most people believe.

On TV this morning was a bloke and his wife. He admitted to slapping her often and for the slightest reasons, and she said...
That she deserves it.
She deserves the slappings.

This bloke said he couldnt help it because he sees red and doesnt know what hes doing.

Now.
Its pretty well known and said that no man, no matter what the circumstances, should ever hit a woman, BUT.

If shes attacking a man? If SHES the one doing the attacking and he defends himself? What then?

Personally Ive never raised my hand to a woman, but ive come bloody close to it on a number of occasions with my ex.

What about you? What do you think?
Have you ever had to defend yourself against your other half, male or female?
Remember women are also capable of domestic violence.
Have you ever been sorely tempted?
Do you know someone in that situation?

If a woman hits me shes getting one back!

If a woman hits me shes getting one back!

But would it be like for like? Men tend to punch hard whereas women tend to slap. And women just don't have the same strength behind a blow anyway. I know I'm going to sound sexist here but most women are incapable of hitting a man hard enough to do much damage. It's just not in our natures for a start and girls aren't encouraged to fight as children and don't develop the techniques for really hurting anyone.

I've seen women who've been beaten to within an inch of their lives in the past by men who simply don't know when to stop. They allow their violent nature to totally take over and keep on punching and kicking even when the victim is unconscious or not even trying to defend herself. Sometimes then they start using weapons as well. Knives, tables, chairs, anything that comes to hand.

I've also seen men with black eyes, stab wounds and scratches, but nothing that serious really. I could count on the fingers of one hand the men that have been put in hospital by the woman in their life, whereas the figures vice versa are countless. I don't know where you got your figures from Cyclone, but they don't seem to be borne out by anecdotal experience. I don't have time to research the figures but I'm sure that it's something like one woman per week is killed by a violent partner.

let's face it, the overwhelming majority of people who endure DV are female)

Simply not true, but unfortunately it's what most people believe.

no, it is a fact, males suffer about a tenth of the DV a female does. (and often, the male who suffers it is in a same-sex relationship) Statistics show that one out of every four women is likely to go through DV at some time in her life.

I'm not excusing DV, it's unacceptable, no matter which quarter it comes from.

Can I also point out that no-one has addressed my other comments, in post 65, above, about the fact that

If someone had posted a quip, in that vein, on, say child abuse, or racism, I think that we'd have been trampled in the sheer rush of folk speeding to condemn the comment.

Sexism, and violence against women seems to be a subject that it is still acceptable to make jokes about.

I've also seen men with black eyes, stab wounds and scratches, but nothing that serious really. I could count on the fingers of one hand the men that have been put in hospital by the woman in their life, whereas the figures vice versa are countless. I don't know where you got your figures from Cyclone, but they don't seem to be borne out by anecdotal experience. I don't have time to research the figures but I'm sure that it's something like one woman per week is killed by a violent partner.

I presume you mean you could count on one hand the ones you know about.

The fact is that many men will not report domestic abuse by their partners, for a variety of reasons.
When they do report it the police often do not take it seriously, for precisely the reasons that are being thrown about in this thread.

The idea that women are incapable of hurting men is a ludicrous one, especially when you start talking about stab wounds as you've done.

I'm sure the problem isn't as great as violence from men towards women, but to dismiss it out of hand as PT did is just burying your head in the sand.

my head isn't in the sand. I support what Rubydazzler says about the injuries on men tending to be far more superficial.

yes, I only know of two men who have been assaulted/attacked by their partners/wives in the same wise as I and a large number of my female friends have.

Of the two, one chap's experience was over 30 yrs ago, the other was more recent, within the last 12 months.

of my female friends/relatives, I could name large numbers of those who have suffered quite serious injuries, as a result of assaults/ attacks from their husband/male partners, (and even their fathers!) from rapes, to stabbings, and strangulation, to head and internal injuries (Incl brain damage) broken bones, including one woman whose attack ended in a "death-as-a-result" of her assault, and they are just the ones that I know about.

I don't know whether you have a bee in your bonnet or what Cyclone, but I've read your replies with a kind of anxiousness.

1) I hope you don't mean to condone violence by suggesting this 'sexual equality' business. For argument sake, and theory sake, we can debate til we are blue in our faces. But when it comes to real life, 1 person can indeed be more physically stronger than another. Each case is individual. Each violence has its causes and effects. Actions and reactions. Most of the time we're only seeing parts of the whole situation. To generalise and simplified the scenario is just demeaning the victims. (Yes, that goes to male domestic violence too.)

2) On the point of DV against men. Well, if the cases are that high, then the guys should ought to make a stance and let the public know of this, and therefore change the laws and legislation in the future. I don't know whether females are verbal creatures which makes us highlight such issues generally to others for emphathy reasons. Which therefore highlight the percentages more this way.

I've read and watched the responses from the public with regards to the two incidences over those two characters from East Enders who got abused from their partners and made the headlines. I recall the 'demeaning' and the way to 'laugh it off' came from many male readers. Well, it came across as that way. If a male friend of mine talked to me about such situations, I would not demean it, but to take it seriously. I don't know whether it is men who are the more typical 'alpha male' type would just push such scenarios at the back of their minds, and not really acknowledges it.

Many people make comments, but their comments are based on a different set of information. The context, and the experiences.

It may sound unfair of me to say this, but I would not dismiss male DV entirely. I am able to relate to a female DV situation than I am to a male one. However, it does not mean that I am not open-minded to accept such scenarios if it was explained to me, rather than it to be dismissed or defensively thrown in my way.

At the end of the day, it all boils down to communication between couples. What one person see as 'fun' and light slapping, another see it as hurtful, and intentional. It boils down to whether our partners can truly accept and see us the way that we want them to in our minds.

I just wanted to say this too. Even though, I can understand and emphasize with a female's frustration, I don't necessarily condone their act of violences, and I have seen women who have 'bordered' over the point of being mean to become violent. Others just be evil, and release their frustrations and meanness in other ways.

I personally don't understand when and how a guy will react to a scenario, and to me, I find that scary. It's like watching a time bomb, you don't know when he will be ticked off. One or two comments made by a few posters here kind of alarmed me. Someone mentioned that the woman was 'deliberately demeaning the guy in front of his mates'. i.e. make him lose face. I've seen many of my female friends do this in front of their partners, and we all accepts it as a little rant and nothing more of it. Does it mean that the man will harbour this kind of anger and it'll become resentment and frustration one day, and he will let it all rip and hit her ?

my head isn't in the sand. I support what Rubydazzler says about the injuries on men tending to be far more superficial.

yes, I only know of two men who have been assaulted/attacked by their partners/wives in the same wise as I and a large number of my female friends have.

Of the two, one chap's experience was over 30 yrs ago, the other was more recent, within the last 12 months.

of my female friends/relatives, I could name large numbers of those who have suffered quite serious injuries, as a result of assaults/ attacks from their husband/male partners, (and even their fathers!) from rapes, to stabbings, and strangulation, to head and internal injuries (Incl brain damage) broken bones, including one woman whose attack ended in a "death-as-a-result" of her assault, and they are just the ones that I know about.


You must know some nice people, I can't think of a single friend or aquaintance of either sex who has been hurt (physically at least) by someone they know.

Some people don't talk of it because they know that it'll demean their partner's reputation in other people's eyes ?

I know of couples who are unhappy, but show of happy faces, even to their so called friends.

I know of some male friends who don't even dare tell their gfs or partners what they think of them. So therefore making the situation harder, and maybe the girl herself will feel bad, but to either feel a little bit bad, or to feel like they are the most evil partner to their bf ? Which would you rather choose to know ?

I don't know about "nice" people, cyclone, but I must point out that domestic violence is no respecter of persons or their status.

I know blokes who have never done a hand's turn of work in their lives who have beaten up on their missus proper "dole-wallahs".

I have known Bank Managers, Doctors, Lorry Drivers, Builders, and Poets "dish it out" to their wives. I even knew a church minister who was a proper toad tward his wife, beating her up, and having numerous affairs. This delightful paragon of virtue, this pillar of society even ran off with a congregant's wife.! :O

Anyone, from a schoolchild to a Duchess can be subjected to DV. you can be the most high-born in the land, or the lowliest:- it doesn't make any difference.

I don't know whether you have a bee in your bonnet or what Cyclone, but I've read your replies with a kind of anxiousness.

1) I hope you don't mean to condone violence by suggesting this 'sexual equality' business.
I don't know how you could possibly construe anything i've said as condoning violence.
I explicitly stated that violence is uneccesary and unpleasant in one post.

What I have continued to say is that the antiquated idea that 'men should not hit women' is just that, an antiquated idea. Nobody should hit anybody, but equally if someone attacks you everyone has the right to defend themselves, man or woman.

For argument sake, and theory sake, we can debate til we are blue in our faces. But when it comes to real life, 1 person can indeed be more physically stronger than another. Each case is individual. Each violence has its causes and effects. Actions and reactions. Most of the time we're only seeing parts of the whole situation. To generalise and simplified the scenario is just demeaning the victims. (Yes, that goes to male domestic violence too.)

2) On the point of DV against men. Well, if the cases are that high, then the guys should ought to make a stance and let the public know of this, and therefore change the laws and legislation in the future. I don't know whether females are verbal creatures which makes us highlight such issues generally to others for emphathy reasons. Which therefore highlight the percentages more this way.
It's nothing to do with verbal or not, it's to do with pride.
How many men would be happy to report to anyone (never mind the police) that a girl beats them up. They'd rather cut off their own todger.
And when they do report it to the police, more often than not the police do not take it seriously and it doesn't enter the statistics.


I personally don't understand when and how a guy will react to a scenario, and to me, I find that scary. It's like watching a time bomb, you don't know when he will be ticked off.
There is some gross generalisation going on in your post there.
And maybe you are seriously lacking empathy if you can't tell when someone is going to get ticked off.
The assumption that most or even many men would react with violence because they are ticked off is about as wrong as you could possibly be.

One or two comments made by a few posters here kind of alarmed me. Someone mentioned that the woman was 'deliberately demeaning the guy in front of his mates'. i.e. make him lose face. I've seen many of my female friends do this in front of their partners, and we all accepts it as a little rant and nothing more of it. Does it mean that the man will harbour this kind of anger and it'll become resentment and frustration one day, and he will let it all rip and hit her ?

I don't know about "nice" people, cyclone, but I must point out that domestic violence is no respecter of persons or their status.

I know blokes who have never done a hand's turn of work in their lives who have beaten up on their missus proper "dole-wallahs".

I have known Bank Managers, Doctors, Lorry Drivers, Builders, and Poets "dish it out" to their wives. I even knew a church minister who was a proper toad tward his wife, beating her up, and having numerous affairs. This delightful paragon of virtue, this pillar of society even ran off with a congregant's wife.! :O

Anyone, from a schoolchild to a Duchess can be subjected to DV. you can be the most high-born in the land, or the lowliest:- it doesn't make any difference.

I wasn't talking about class. I was talking about nice. As in pleasant.
Either you have a huge circle of friends to know about so many cases, or you've got a particularly unlucky circle of friends.

I don't know how you could possibly construe anything i've said as condoning violence. I explicitly stated that violence is uneccesary and unpleasant in one post.
Well, if this was the case, then I equally did not understand your emphathy with GazB's joke about fighting violence with violence in response. I found it a little bit sick, but then again, I don't really know what you meant to imply there.

What I have continued to say is that the antiquated idea that 'men should not hit women' is just that, an antiquated idea. Nobody should hit anybody, but equally if someone attacks you everyone has the right to defend themselves, man or woman.
When people say that, 'men should not hit women' meant just that. A man should not hit a woman because she has been merely been verbal. (We are verbal creatures and we express our anger through words. After that, we're calm.)

It's nothing to do with verbal or not, it's to do with pride.
How many men would be happy to report to anyone (never mind the police) that a girl beats them up. They'd rather cut off their own todger.
And when they do report it to the police, more often than not the police do not take it seriously and it doesn't enter the statistics.
You see, this is an important point because, I would never have thought that a guy would put pride over law. If a woman charges towards you with a knife, will you let her stab you, no right ? So equally, if the situation calls for the laws to intervene. Wouldn't the guy do the smart thing and highlight the issue ? Women will highlight the issue, when they know that it's gotten so serious and its out of their hands to deal with. The softer women who don't believe that they are in a DV relationship would just accept it, and still stays.

I guess common sense and good judgement needs to be emphasized in such situations. Men or women. If your partner fun slap you, will you call the police ? However, if your partner channelled her energy and frustration from elsewhere and throw a piece of furniture at you, will you call the police ?

There is some gross generalisation going on in your post there.
And maybe you are seriously lacking empathy if you can't tell when someone is going to get ticked off.
The assumption that most or even many men would react with violence because they are ticked off is about as wrong as you could possibly be.
You're not wrong. I was once scared, and so I shouted at someone, he then man-handled me, and stressed me even more, and I thought he would hit me. So therefore I struggled even more. Because of this, he restrained me even further, and then he had to hit me. Cos I started shouting at him to let me go. So yes, he hit me, and therefore I screamed cos I didn't know what else he would do. I screamed for attention. Until other people were aware of the scene, and then intervened to separate us.

This guy later apologised, but I was so upset that I can't really accept it. In the end, I just kind of accepted it cos it was upsetting other people around me. Even now, I sometimes find myself crying over this incidence. Sometimes something triggers the memory, and I think back to this scenario as to why it happened. Was it my fault? Was it his ? Why did it happen ? The years of trust just goes.

I am not assuming that all guys who are ticked off will do this. (If I did this, how will I handle my relationship with the opposite sex in the future ?) However, I do question the ability of judgement from some men who will and can be easily ticked off. For example, because you've shown such passion on this issue, and I myself cannot comprehend it. I would stay clear of you. I apologise in advance if you feel that I've been out of line by saying this.

Even now, I stay clear of this guy who hit me. I don't pretend everything is okay, cos it isn't. I once tried to smooth things over, and he couldn't accept it. So I left it. Maybe it's timing, maybe it isn't. However, I won't do anything to put myself in that scenario again. I rather avoid this person than to do anything silly and stupid.

What I don't understand in this kind of scenario is that, I never 'hit' the person, but I found the situation unbearable, so I shouted, and was prepared to walk away from the scene to cool myself down. However, the other person decided that he wanted to 'sort' the situation, and did not let me out of the door. In the end, it resorted to violence.

Again, I ask, why does violence happen, when it something was verbal abuse only ? In my case, I didn't even verbally abuse the guy. I just wanted to walk out of an unbearable situation to cool down, and I was not even given this chance.

I also recall a scenario once in an office. A guy got really wound up by the girls who were playfully poking fun at this one guy and then he said something about shooting someone's cat in jest, but his tone of voice sounded like he meant it. The girls were pretty scared of him after that. I knew him well, (cos we conversed a lot) and kind of laughed it off, but I also knew that the other girls who cannot judge him, and understand him found him alarming.

You must know some nice people, I can't think of a single friend or aquaintance of either sex who has been hurt (physically at least) by someone they know.

Then with greatest respect I think it very likely that you simply don't know, not that there isn't someone who hasn't been (or isn't currently getting) hurt.

During both of the abusive relationships I've been in, nobody other than me and my abuser knew. I made internal excuses for them and until I was out of the situation told nobody.

Possible I suppose, or maybe I'm only friends with people wouldn't do that.

It's not unusual for both me and my SO to have numerous bruises, including the occassional black eye, all from training of course.
I wonder if people who don't know that we do martial arts think that we beat each other up.

Then with greatest respect I think it very likely that you simply don't know, not that there isn't someone who hasn't been (or isn't currently getting) hurt.

During both of the abusive relationships I've been in, nobody other than me and my abuser knew. I made internal excuses for them and until I was out of the situation told nobody.
What do they call men like that? Street angels, home devils or something? To the world theyre nice, decent, good natured men, but behind closed doors...

What do they call men like that? Street angels, home devils or something? To the world theyre nice, decent, good natured men, but behind closed doors...

I could add a few descriptions myself, but banning myself for the language I'd have to use would be so humiliating.....

When people say that, 'men should not hit women' meant just that. A man should not hit a woman because she has been merely been verbal. (We are verbal creatures and we express our anger through words. After that, we're calm.)
That wasn't what was said. No one should ever hit anyone for something said.
What was said though was a blanket, "men shouldn't hit women". Nothing to do with 'for what they said'. Hence why I felt like I should reply saying, yes they should, if they need to defend themselves.



You see, this is an important point because, I would never have thought that a guy would put pride over law. If a woman charges towards you with a knife, will you let her stab you, no right ? So equally, if the situation calls for the laws to intervene. Wouldn't the guy do the smart thing and highlight the issue ? Women will highlight the issue, when they know that it's gotten so serious and its out of their hands to deal with. The softer women who don't believe that they are in a DV relationship would just accept it, and still stays.

Different reasons for hiding it, but many men probably wouldn't report it.
It doesn't have to be a knife though, if a man doesn't defend himself (maybe because he stupidly believes that he shouldn't hit women) then it could simply be slapping and fists.

I guess common sense and good judgement needs to be emphasized in such situations. Men or women. If your partner fun slap you, will you call the police ? However, if your partner channelled her energy and frustration from elsewhere and throw a piece of furniture at you, will you call the police ?


You're not wrong. I was once scared, and so I shouted at someone, he then man-handled me, and stressed me even more, and I thought he would hit me. So therefore I struggled even more. Because of this, he restrained me even further, and then he had to hit me. Cos I started shouting at him to let me go. So yes, he hit me, and therefore I screamed cos I didn't know what else he would do. I screamed for attention. Until other people were aware of the scene, and then intervened to separate us.
I guess this is abuse, or at least assault. You can't grab someone simply because they shout at you, and struggling to escape is quite reasonable.
That doesn't mean that all men are like that though.


This guy later apologised, but I was so upset that I can't really accept it. In the end, I just kind of accepted it cos it was upsetting other people around me. Even now, I sometimes find myself crying over this incidence. Sometimes something triggers the memory, and I think back to this scenario as to why it happened. Was it my fault? Was it his ? Why did it happen ? The years of trust just goes.

I am not assuming that all guys who are ticked off will do this. (If I did this, how will I handle my relationship with the opposite sex in the future ?) However, I do question the ability of judgement from some men who will and can be easily ticked off. For example, because you've shown such passion on this issue, and I myself cannot comprehend it. I would stay clear of you. I apologise in advance if you feel that I've been out of line by saying this.

I don't really care, so i'm not offended. But it leaves me questioning your judgement. If I was the sort of person who just saw a red mist and started hitting things surely i'd be having difficult typing now and my computer would be getting flying lessons.
Confusing someone who tries to make a reasoned argument about something with someone who might be violent is a pretty high level of confusion.


Even now, I stay clear of this guy who hit me. I don't pretend everything is okay, cos it isn't. I once tried to smooth things over, and he couldn't accept it. So I left it. Maybe it's timing, maybe it isn't. However, I won't do anything to put myself in that scenario again. I rather avoid this person than to do anything silly and stupid.

quite right, seems like the sensible thing to do

What I don't understand in this kind of scenario is that, I never 'hit' the person, but I found the situation unbearable, so I shouted, and was prepared to walk away from the scene to cool myself down. However, the other person decided that he wanted to 'sort' the situation, and did not let me out of the door. In the end, it resorted to violence.

Again, I ask, why does violence happen, when it something was verbal abuse only ? In my case, I didn't even verbally abuse the guy. I just wanted to walk out of an unbearable situation to cool down, and I was not even given this chance.
I can't answer that question, only the people involved can.


I also recall a scenario once in an office. A guy got really wound up by the girls who were playfully poking fun at this one guy and then he said something about shooting someone's cat in jest, but his tone of voice sounded like he meant it. The girls were pretty scared of him after that. I knew him well, (cos we conversed a lot) and kind of laughed it off, but I also knew that the other girls who cannot judge him, and understand him found him alarming.
That's life I guess, anything can be taken the wrong way, I guess you should always be careful what you say.

sit down and talk about it.

I don't really care, so i'm not offended. But it leaves me questioning your judgement. If I was the sort of person who just saw a red mist and started hitting things surely i'd be having difficult typing now and my computer would be getting flying lessons.
Confusing someone who tries to make a reasoned argument about something with someone who might be violent is a pretty high level of confusion.
That's what you tell me, since I don't know you, know you. All I can do is use my judgement on a superficial level and be fearful. Why was I a little bit uncertain ? It is because you defended the argument that men should be defended regardless of their actions. So I'm sitting here thinking, 'is this guy supporting violence against women, or what?'. At the same time digesting all that you're written, and related it with what I understood you as a person based on what you write here in the SF.

I don't understand your stance in that, it would be a blanket sweeping generalisation. You seem to be coming across as supporting the retaliation in hitting women. Like for like. What if the woman who was the one to 'hit' did not meant it as a real hit in malice ? If such a situation occurred, she would be the one who was the defensive person, and not the offensive person.

If you wanted to promote male DV, then you can do so without resorting to demeaning the statistics of female DV. This is what I did not understand. In your argument about male DV, you compared it 'like for like', but it's never that simple.

After this incidence, it leaves me thinking, what ticks people off. The only thing I can think of is built-in frustration. Or being misunderstood.

That's life I guess, anything can be taken the wrong way, I guess you should always be careful what you say.
lol. At least we agree on something. You can say that I misunderstood some of what you wrote the wrong way. Equally, in other scenarios or even in relationships, such misunderstanding can occur. It's good judgement call at the end of the day.

'Men should not hit women'. I agree with this. However, it is not set in stone to mean as 'Men should NEVER hit women'. That is the difference in our understanding of this term.

I don't think that some of the female readers here said that men should never ever hit women. If the hit was in self defence, (or maybe I should be more PC and say, if the retaliation was in a constrained mode) and if the woman is indeed physically not as strong, then the man should really NOT hit a woman. Obviously, I don't think that anyone encourages violence of any nature. I don't want to be the first one to start a trend either. Hence why I found it odd, and maybe I took it seriously when GazB made that joke.

Maybe because you do martial arts, and know that women's strengths can be much stronger than yourself, than mere size alone. However, for me, I judge physical strength on a very simplistic view. If someone has more muscle or is taller or is bigger than me. I would class them as physically stronger.

If I hit a man, I would expect him to hit me back. I see no reason why a woman can hit a man but he won't hit a woman.

That's what you tell me, since I don't know you, know you. All I can do is use my judgement on a superficial level and be fearful. Why was I a little bit uncertain ? It is because you defended the argument that men should be defended regardless of their actions. So I'm sitting here thinking, 'is this guy supporting violence against women, or what?'. At the same time digesting all that you're written, and related it with what I understood you as a person based on what you write here in the SF.

I don't understand your stance in that, it would be a blanket sweeping generalisation. You seem to be coming across as supporting the retaliation in hitting women. Like for like. What if the woman who was the one to 'hit' did not meant it as a real hit in malice ? If such a situation occurred, she would be the one who was the defensive person, and not the offensive person.
I'm loosing track of what you are saying.

All I have argued (and continue to do so), is that a blanket statement about men not hitting women is foolish.
Following that, I have stated that anyone (man or woman) can defend themself if necessary using a reasonable level of force.

I really have no idea what it is your disagreeing with me over anymore. You just seem to be putting if not words then ideas into my mouth and then using them to disagree with.


If you wanted to promote male DV, then you can do so without resorting to demeaning the statistics of female DV. This is what I did not understand. In your argument about male DV, you compared it 'like for like', but it's never that simple.
I don't particularly, I just didn't want it to be dismissed as was happening.
I happened to read a report on it some time ago, which surprised me (with the amount that isn't reported and the amount that when reported isn't taken seriously).


After this incidence, it leaves me thinking, what ticks people off. The only thing I can think of is built-in frustration. Or being misunderstood.


lol. At least we agree on something. You can say that I misunderstood some of what you wrote the wrong way. Equally, in other scenarios or even in relationships, such misunderstanding can occur. It's good judgement call at the end of the day.

'Men should not hit women'. I agree with this. However, it is not set in stone to mean as 'Men should NEVER hit women'. That is the difference in our understanding of this term.
I don't agree with that. 'People should not hit people', and that does mean never. Gender has absolutely no bearing on it.


I don't think that some of the female readers here said that men should never ever hit women. If the hit was in self defence, (or maybe I should be more PC and say, if the retaliation was in a constrained mode) and if the woman is indeed physically not as strong, then the man should really NOT hit a woman. Obviously, I don't think that anyone encourages violence of any nature. I don't want to be the first one to start a trend either. Hence why I found it odd, and maybe I took it seriously when GazB made that joke.

Maybe because you do martial arts, and know that women's strengths can be much stronger than yourself, than mere size alone. However, for me, I judge physical strength on a very simplistic view. If someone has more muscle or is taller or is bigger than me. I would class them as physically stronger.

Obviously that's true. But that doesn't automatically mean that you can't hurt them. I've been hit/kicked by girls smaller than myself and left with my head ringing (or curled up in a ball on the floor), unless it's a child attacking you then there is a real risk of injury and so you're justified in responding appropriately.

somebody ought to give that patricia hewitt a slap

All I have argued (and continue to do so), is that a blanket statement about men not hitting women is foolish.
Following that, I have stated that anyone (man or woman) can defend themself if necessary using a reasonable level of force.
Well, all I know is that, the statement, 'men should not hit women'. Does not mean in my eyes to be that literal. I don't take it literally as never hitting women. Nor do I advocate, logically speaking, that men should hit women.

However, if other writers which wrote that had meant for it to be taken as literal, then I am surprised.

With regards to male DV.
I don't particularly, I just didn't want it to be dismissed as was happening. I happened to read a report on it some time ago, which surprised me (with the amount that isn't reported and the amount that when reported isn't taken seriously).

I have to admit that I won't be able to relate to it as easily as female DV. Well, I hope I won't be classed as sexist for saying that, I can't emphasize in a male situation as more easily as a female one. Being one myself and all the rest. However, I do and would like to know more.

It's nothing to do with verbal or not, it's to do with pride.
How many men would be happy to report to anyone (never mind the police) that a girl beats them up. They'd rather cut off their own todger.
And when they do report it to the police, more often than not the police do not take it seriously and it doesn't enter the statistics.
Since, you just wrote previously that, men would rather cut off their todger than to admit to being hit by a woman. I don't understand this pride thing. So, rather than to let the police deal with the situation, and legalise the situation, a man (because of his pride) will hit the woman back in return ? But what if his action was not in a controlled way, and therefore aggravated the situation and tipple that defensive stance into an offensive one ?

In the olden days, I'd imagine if a woman lashes out physically and psychologically, she would've been taken into a mental hospital with a strait jacket.

this information is from an American DV site, as I was trying to find stats on the ratio od males and females enduring DV:

thank you to "womens rural advocacy program" site for these facts:-
http://www.letswrap.com/dvinfo/stats.htm

Approximately 95% of the victims of domestic violence are women.
(Department of Justice figures)
Every 9 seconds in the United States a woman is assaulted and beaten.

4,000,000 women a year are assaulted by their partners.

In the United States, a woman is more likely to be assaulted, injured, raped, or killed by a male partner than by any other type of assailant.

Every day, 4 women are murdered by boyfriends or husbands.

Prison terms for killing husbands are twice as long as for killing wives.

93% of women who killed their mates had been battered by them. 67% killed them to protect themselves and their children at the moment of murder.

25% of all crime is wife assault.

70% of men who batter their partners either sexually or physically abuse their children.

Domestic violence is the number one cause of emergency room visits by women.

73% of the battered women seeking emergency medical services have already separated from the abuser.

Women are most likely to be killed when attempting to leave the abuser. In fact, they're at a 75% higher risk than those who stay.

The number-one cause of women's injuries is abuse at home. This abuse happens more often than car accidents, mugging, and rape combined.

Up to 37% of all women experience battering. This is an estimated 566,000 women in Minnesota alone.

Battering often occurs during pregnancy. One study found that 37% of pregnant women, across all class, race, and educational lines, were physically abused during pregnancy.

60% of all battered women are beaten while they are pregnant.

34% of the female homicide victims over age 15 are killed by their husbands, ex-husbands, or boyfriends.

2/3 of all marriages will experience domestic violence at least once.

Weapons are used in 30% of domestic violence incidents.

Approximately 1,155,600 adult American women have been victims of one or more forcible rapes by their husbands.

Over 90% of murder-suicides involving couples are perpetrated by the man. 19-26% of male spouse-murderers committed suicide.

When only spouse abuse was considered, divorced or separated men committed 79% of the assaults and husbands committed 21%.

Abusive husbands and lovers harass 74% of employed battered women at work, either in person or over the telephone, causing 20% to lose their jobs.

Physical violence in dating relationships ranges from 20-35%.

It is estimated that between 20% to 52% of high school and college age dating couples have engaged in physical abuse.

More than 50% of child abductions result from domestic violence.

Injuries that battered women receive are at least as serious as injuries suffered in 90% of violent felony crimes.

In 1991, only 17 states kept data on reported domestic violence offenses. These reports were limited to murder, rape, robbery, and serious bodily injury.

More than half of battered women stay with their batterer because they do not feel that they can support themselves and their children alone.

In homes where domestic violence occurs, children are abused at a rate 1,500% higher than the national average.

Up to 64% of hospitalized female psychiatric patients have histories of being physically abused as adults.

50% of the homeless women and children in the U.S. are fleeing abuse.

The amount spent to shelter animals is three times the amount spent to provide emergency shelter to women from domestic abuse situations.

Family violence kills as many women every 5 years as the total number of Americans who died in the Vietnam War.

these are the most frightening comments:-

Injuries that battered women receive are at least as serious as injuries suffered in 90% of violent felony crimes.

Women are most likely to be killed when attempting to leave the abuser. In fact, they're at a 75% higher risk than those who stay.

93% of women who killed their mates had been battered by them. 67% killed them to protect themselves and their children at the moment of murder.
Prison terms for killing husbands are twice as long as for killing wives.


"Women are most likely to be killed when attempting to leave the abuser."

This is the one I find most frightening of them all.

The amount spent to shelter animals is three times the amount spent to provide emergency shelter to women from domestic abuse situations

It's not really surprising when people just refuse to believe the evidence presented about violence towards women, is it? We can see it even on this Forum all the time. Barely concealed disrespect towards women is often shown and not just by men, other women can often be just as bad. Men are often apologists for other men, women are rarely on their sister's side :|

I understand that people (men or women) don't want to admit that their partner is violent towards them. Yes, it must be demeaning to have to tell people. But if most battered men had to endure what most battered women do, I think they'd be on their bike so quick, you wouldn't see them for dust. Why do women put up with it? You tell me, but I think the statistic that a woman is most in danger when she tries to leave, gives a big clue.

What I think Cyclone and others have to realise is that most of the women who do tell, don't tell voluntarily. It all comes out when they're admited to Casualty with broken jaws, ribs, serious head injuries, and the like, not just once but time and again.

If any men were being battered in the same way, they'd have no choice but it to come out what was happening. They'd be unconscious and medical people fighting to save their lives. Their pride wouldn't figure in the equation at that stage.

I've been lucky never to have personally experienced this in my life, so far, but I've talked to women and listened to their stories as part of my working life, in the past. Sometimes what happens to women and their children is beyond belief. Trying to gloss over it and persuade yourself that a women who slaps you deserves a punch in the face in return is ludicrous. Anyone who's ever tried to force a man, even a small one, physically to do something knows how strong they are. Men are much stronger than women and we rely on them to restrain themselves around us - and we all know that really, no matter how much we'd like to pretend otherwise.

Cyclone, it's not a matter of "Ugh, they're NAICE people!!" *shudder*...

if it's one in four women suffering DV at some time in their lives, it seems to be the rule, then, and not an exception.

this is what I mean about DV being a taboo, that is still accepted, and deemed acceptaBLE. but behind closed doors.

I know quite a few blokes who are "hail-fellow-well-met" when at work, and out with their mates but when that front door is closed, they are B*****s to their wives and kids.

I know of one bloke (fortunately{?} he's dead now) who was an utter bully, to his wife .

The swine even knocked her about when she was pregnant with their baby.

While ever "jokes" about DV go unchallenged, then we are complicit in treating DV as being acceptable.

Did you know, it takes, on average, THIRTY SEVEN assaults on a "battered wife" before she manages to leave her husband?

Since, you just wrote previously that, men would rather cut off their todger than to admit to being hit by a woman. I don't understand this pride thing. So, rather than to let the police deal with the situation, and legalise the situation, a man (because of his pride) will hit the woman back in return ? But what if his action was not in a controlled way, and therefore aggravated the situation and tipple that defensive stance into an offensive one ?

In the olden days, I'd imagine if a woman lashes out physically and psychologically, she would've been taken into a mental hospital with a strait jacket.

Noooo, in the case of a DV against the man they won't be doing any hitting back, that would be a fight, not abuse.
So they don't report it, they don't do anything about it and they are in an abusive relationship.
Stop trying to make out that women who hit men are somehow justified, it's not the case. DV occurs both ways and it's not justified in either case.

Cyclone, it's not a matter of "Ugh, they're NAICE people!!" *shudder*...

if it's one in four women suffering DV at some time in their lives, it seems to be the rule, then, and not an exception.

this is what I mean about DV being a taboo, that is still accepted, and deemed acceptaBLE. but behind closed doors.
I don't think that's true at all.


I know quite a few blokes who are "hail-fellow-well-met" when at work, and out with their mates but when that front door is closed, they are B*****s to their wives and kids.
Do you spy on them or something? I'm just puzzled how you can know this.
Obviously I know people at work, but since I don't their families I have no way to judge that side of their life.
The only way I could know about DV would be if I know both parties


I know of one bloke (fortunately{?} he's dead now) who was an utter bully, to his wife .

The swine even knocked her about when she was pregnant with their baby.

While ever "jokes" about DV go unchallenged, then we are complicit in treating DV as being acceptable.

Did you know, it takes, on average, THIRTY SEVEN assaults on a "battered wife" before she manages to leave her husband?

Stop trying to make out that women who hit men are somehow justified, it's not the case. DV occurs both ways and it's not justified in either case.

I don't think anyone is trying to "make out" that women who hit men are somehow justified. It just seems that whenever DV against women is mentioned on here, you and a couple of other (male) posters always seem to bring women hitting men into the equation and somehow divert the topic onto yourselves! I don't know what your experience has been of being hit by women, but this is one subject where equality of the sexes doesn't come into it.

Anyone who knows even tangentially about DV is aware that the vast majority of the DV is done by men against women. There is men on men DV and women on women DV but the most DV is men on women. *most* women are weaker than *most* men and don't even know how to fight back anyway, so therefore the old adage "never hit a women" came about.

Just accept that you're stronger than us and we can't really fight you unless we're specially trained to do so, and that we rely on you to rein your instincts in and don't allow your emotions to lead you into knocking us into the middle of next week. It's not really that difficult to grasp, is it?

an addendum to the figures I posted above from the US DV website:-

in the UK, the figures are that 2 women a week are killed by an abusive husband/partner. That's over 100 women a year.

Trying to gloss over it and persuade yourself that a women who slaps you deserves a punch in the face in return is ludicrous. Anyone who's ever tried to force a man, even a small one, physically to do something knows how strong they are. Men are much stronger than women and we rely on them to restrain themselves around us - and we all know that really, no matter how much we'd like to pretend otherwise.

If a woman slaps a man then she probably deserves a slap right back. If she punches a man then she probably deserves a punch back.
Maybe you're some sort of super weakling, but I know how strong I am, and I know how strong various women are (from fighting them in classes). I won't try to argue that i'm not stronger, but it's certainly not the extent that you seem to think.
And I'm a fairly well built and active guy. There are many men who are weeker than many women. I'll accept that on average men are stronger, but much stronger as you've said, I don't agree.

I don't think anyone is trying to "make out" that women who hit men are somehow justified. It just seems that whenever DV against women is mentioned on here, you and a couple of other (male) posters always seem to bring women hitting men into the equation and somehow divert the topic onto yourselves! I don't know what your experience has been of being hit by women, but this is one subject where equality of the sexes doesn't come into it.
I'll challenge you to prove that please. Another two threads (or one if that's all you can find) where it has happened.
My continuing point in this thread wasn't about DV towards men, that was just an aside, it was just to argue against the stupid assertion that "men should never hit women". Which is just that, stupid.
There is no situation where equality doesn't come into it. At least as far as i'm concerned. If a person attacks me, i'll defend myself.



Anyone who knows even tangentially about DV is aware that the vast majority of the DV is done by men against women.

And that is exactly the short sighted 'I know best' attitude that made me mention DV towards men.

"Very little in known about the actual number of men who are in a domestic relationship in which they are abused or treated violently by women. In 100 domestic violence situations approximately 40 cases involve violence by women against men. An estimated 400,000 women per year are abused or treated violently in the United States by their spouse or intimate partner. This means that roughly 300,000 to 400,000 men are treated violently by their wife or girl friend.

"
from here (http://www.oregoncounseling.org/Handouts/DomesticViolenceMen.htm). Estimated at 40% of all DV being towards men. How does that fit with your 'vast majority'?

There is men on men DV and women on women DV but the most DV is men on women. *most* women are weaker than *most* men and don't even know how to fight back anyway, so therefore the old adage "never hit a women" came about.

Just accept that you're stronger than us and we can't really fight you unless we're specially trained to do so, and that we rely on you to rein your instincts in and don't allow your emotions to lead you into knocking us into the middle of next week. It's not really that difficult to grasp, is it?

This isn't difficult to grasp. I have no instinct to knock you anywhere. But if you see me in the street and attack me, I will defend myself and you will get hurt, that applies to all men and all women, i'm not picky.

But if you seee me in the street and attack me, I will defend myself and you will get hurt, that applies to all men and all women, i'm not picky.

I think this thread is now going way off topic. Why would I attack you in the street anyway :rolleyes: I though we were discussing domestic violence?

Anyway, I've said what I had to say, so I'm out. You're a bit like a Dalek, debating is futile lol, you keep repeating your mantra of the topic and that's it.

You've almost grasped an important point there.
The statements about 'men should never hit women' are not qualified they DO NOT refer specifically to DV and hence why they are stupid statements and I feel obliged to argue with them.

You've almost grasped an important point there.
The statements about 'men should never hit women' are not qualified they DO NOT refer specifically to DV and hence why they are stupid statements and I feel obliged to argue with them.

Actually, I've almost grasped another important point, that for some reason I feel obliged to argue with you, but I'm sure not if my reason is that your statements are stupid or whether it's just some strange nebulous compulsion that I don't have the strength to fight :hihi:

I also don't know why I keep typing "women" when it's perfectly obvious even to me that I actually mean to type "woman":help:

Very telling I expect. Maybe you should only argue when you think you actually have a point instead.

I would go further and say its nothing to do with size or strength but power. We all have the size and strength to run away while someone isn't looking (its not often you get situations where people are staying in an abusive relationship because they are literally unable to escape) but often in relationships one person holds the power over another.

Really what happens in abusive relationships is one person (the man or the woman) mentally abuses the other by belittling them and making them feel powerless, like they can't leave. This is wrong, no matter what gender the people involved are. Its a whole different kettle of fish from 'defending yourself if needs be'.

Personally, JBee, if I were to hit Cyclone (for example) randomly on the street, I would expect to be hit back! However, it doesn't matter how much I wind up my partner, he should never hit me, because he has a certain amount of power over me (ie, I love him, we have shared finances, etc). There's a massive difference.

Kathy summarised it all perfectly for me, maybe you'll be more inclined to read what she had to say than you seem to be with my posts.

Kathy summarised it all perfectly for me, maybe you'll be more inclined to read what she had to say than you seem to be with my posts.

Probably :)

Noooo, in the case of a DV against the man they won't be doing any hitting back, that would be a fight, not abuse.
So they don't report it, they don't do anything about it and they are in an abusive relationship.
Stop trying to make out that women who hit men are somehow justified, it's not the case. DV occurs both ways and it's not justified in either case.
Well, I wasn't trying to make out that women who hit men are justified. I was asking a few rhetorical questions, to understand the cirucmstances of male DV better. I merely based it on what you said about male DV. Cos it really is not something that I can relate to.

For example, I read on another thread that a male poster wrote that, women can verbally abuse a man, and that he sees it as abuse. However, I don't. I can't relate to the point of, how words can be truly verbally abusive. Maybe it's because I cannot imagine what words said to a man, would make him see it as verbal abuse. Is it when his ego was dampened, or something negative towards his actions, what ?

Being back on topic.
"Men should never hit women." If this is not believed, then the counter argument would imply the logic of "men should hit women".
Are we saying that here that men indeed should hit women ? Under what circumstances, or situations ? I don't know. Alarms bells just ring in my head when I read that comment. It just alarms me. Nobody should hit anybody. End of. The logic is flawed.

At the end of the day, if someone has been abusive towards you. You should say, or let them know. How else will the other person learn ? Male or female. If you don't like how you are treated, then best to at least make a statement before you imitate their action back. Obviously, if someone hit you lightly for fun and thought it didn't hurt, but it does. Let them know. How else can you judge your own strength if others don't tell you ?

How many times do I need to repeat.

"People should not hit people".

Your mantra, "men should not hit women" is a subset of mine, and leaves open the option for women to hit men.

I then qualify the statement by mentioned exceptions, ie except in self defence.

My logic is fine, the situation when it is acceptable for someone to hit someone is when the hitting is self defence.

I think you're confusing causing accidental hurt with abuse. Abuse is systematic and ongoing, it's not a play fight where someone got a bruise, nor is it an argument where someone said something hurtful.
Saying something to them will most likely just cause more abuse, it's not something ameanable to discussion.

For example, I read on another thread that a male poster wrote that, women can verbally abuse a man, and that he sees it as abuse. However, I don't. I can't relate to the point of, how words can be truly verbally abusive. Maybe it's because I cannot imagine what words said to a man, would make him see it as verbal abuse. Is it when his ego was dampened, or something negative towards his actions, what ?



Verbal abuse can be as bad as physically striking your partner. It surely can be classified, at the very least, as bullying?

Think about what we have been saying on another thread about a parent who was talking nastily to her toddler daughter, calling her llittle toddler " an effing little b*tch" etc. ( http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=156219 )

We were, quite rightly, outraged (and saddened) at the treatment meted out to that kiddie, so why should we be any less outraged when someone who purports to love their partner, uses that sort of language towards the "object of their love?"

When someone tells you you are a useless, no good, worthless piece of sh*t, and they drum that into you, 24/7, it ingrains itself into your mind, and you start to believe that it's true.

if its a couple they should separate CUT TO THE CHASE they wind each other up and are incompatible, in other cases - walk away, your'e not both nailed to the floor, if you are stuck and can't get away that is either a police issue, or you have to "fight to the death" (that is not tbe taken literally) get out of each other's faces - it's bad for your health

cyclone: It's fine. I was away from the board for a while, and hence when you wrote that I was trying to make justification. I thought who better to clarify that point than myself ? I hope I wasn't seen as digging up an old post for the sake of it. For me, it's just completion of a discussion.

Verbal abuse can be as bad as physically striking your partner. It surely can be classified, at the very least, as bullying?

Think about what we have been saying on another thread about a parent who was talking nastily to her toddler daughter, calling her llittle toddler " an effing little b*tch" etc. ( http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=156219 )

We were, quite rightly, outraged (and saddened) at the treatment meted out to that kiddie, so why should we be any less outraged when someone who purports to love their partner, uses that sort of language towards the "object of their love?"

When someone tells you you are a useless, no good, worthless piece of sh*t, and they drum that into you, 24/7, it ingrains itself into your mind, and you start to believe that it's true.
I suppose I do agree with you on the point of verbal abuse in examples like, "you are a useless, no good, worthless piece of sh*t".

What I didn't understand was, from the other comment about the female not 'giving face'. i.e. not keeping her mouth shut when the time warrants it. But who is to judge that by not commenting on a partner's behaviour is seen as verbally abusive ? That is what I don't understand.

I do understand that within a context of a relationship, it is hard not to mention weak points within our partners which maybe seen as being disloyal or critical. However, it should not be a complete acceptance if we feel that our partner has disapoointed us in some ways, and we cannot even discuss about it, right ?

if its a couple they should separate CUT TO THE CHASE they wind each other up and are incompatible, in other cases - walk away, your'e not both nailed to the floor, if you are stuck and can't get away that is either a police issue, or you have to "fight to the death" (that is not tbe taken literally) get out of each other's faces - it's bad for your health

some blokes (like my first bf, who was shockingly abusive) might not actually want their partner any more, but they certainly don't want their partner to be able to move on, and make a relationship with someone else.

i went through hell on earth with my bf...

I was stalked by this "man", he had also made threats of arson, he blatantly disobeyed an injunction I had out against him, and he attacked me, fracturing my cheekbone. For this assault, he got a years conditional discharge. I never got a say, in court, or received any kind of compensation order.

The protection provided in my case, at the time, was a farce, I had no support from the police, who, in fact treated the abuse, and the assault I endured, as laughable, and trivial.

In the news today, a detective has been sacked for not investigating allegations that someones ex was behind a string of assaults.
Ultimately he murdered his ex, shooting her.

Personally i'm surprised that the detective isn't facing any charges for gross incompetance.

Raises the issue of some people being pushed too far by their psychologically abusive partners and resorting to violence as a result eh? Not saying it's right or that I agree with it of course but it clearly does happen. :roll:

No, that wasn't what I was getting at.
It was the abused that was killed, not the abuser.
It makes it clear that it can be difficult to get the police to take it seriously sometimes though.

For example, I read on another thread that a male poster wrote that, women can verbally abuse a man, and that he sees it as abuse. However, I don't. I can't relate to the point of, how words can be truly verbally abusive. Maybe it's because I cannot imagine what words said to a man, would make him see it as verbal abuse. Is it when his ego was dampened, or something negative towards his actions, what?
If you'd like to PM me Bago I can provide you with an example of what verbal abuse can do to a man and its long term corosive and damaging effect. It really can be a horrible experience, causing someone to doubt their own worth as a human being.

...For example, I read on another thread that a male poster wrote that, women can verbally abuse a man, and that he sees it as abuse. However, I don't. I can't relate to the point of, how words can be truly verbally abusive. Maybe it's because I cannot imagine what words said to a man, would make him see it as verbal abuse. Is it when his ego was dampened, or something negative towards his actions, what ? ...
Imagine a relationship which has soured. Your partner knows all your weaknesses; the things you admitted to when you used to love and trust your partner implicitly; your darkest fears and secrets which no one else knows. Imagine those things turned against you by a malicious and vindictive woman (or man). It's psychologically draining and can do immense damage not only to someone's ego, but to their self-worth.

Oi you lot stop bringing me into this while my back is turned :)

Ok. I think I get the picture.
I guess relationships are hard because it really means being able to relate to your partner's experiences, as well as not losing sight of your own feelings.

Cyclone you may have experienced female perptrated D.V but statiscally men are more likely to be the perpatrators.I think that even if a man is going to hit a woman they shouldn't hit back unless they feel that they need to defend themselves from further injury.
So if a woman slaps you and you thought that was all she was going to do would you still hit her back or would it be if you felt in more serious danger?

I haven't. I didn't suggest anywhere that I had.
Statistically the greater likeihood is quite small, 40% of victims are men, 60% women, hardly a massive difference.
Do what you like, let women beat you black and blue if it that's what you think you should do.
I've made my point and i've made it clear how I feel, i'm not going to keep reitterating it.