Anyone think we will ever get a Harvey Nicks store in Sheffield?

If dirty leeds can have one why can't we?

John Lewis snubbed leeds in favour of us and now Manchester, Birmingham and Edinburgh all have bigger Harvey Nicks stores than leeds.

Even if we only get a little store in the New Retail Quarter it would be better than none to help boost Sheffield's retail image further.

If only. As for the others - the Birmingham one is the smallest, but it was meant to be that way. They are planning 5 new openings (so they say), so my money is on glasgow, newcastle, bristol, cardiff and belfast.
sheffield needs the basics first, so french connection, deisel, ted baker, paul smith and office need to open first. i wonder if our lovely council will have them in the NRQ??
anyway - i'd rather have a selfridges, and in steel city house at the bottom of west street - that building was made to be a nice department store.
and i know we have lovely small independents on divi street, but really, a few flagships wouldn't go amiss....

We already have French Connection and Ted Baker stores in Sheffield at Meadowhall or do you mean in the city centre?

It would be very intresting to see a list of the stores which the council has approved for the New Retail Quarter.

I agree Steel City House would make an awsome looking department store, its for too nice to be offices!

Once the New Retail Quarter is up and running along with all the other regeneration plans I think Harvey Nicks or Selfridges will look at Sheffield more attractively.

we have **** and ted at meadowhall, but they are needed in any city centre to attract the larger famous london stores. how can harvey nics and selfridges know about the demand if it is impossible to buy the likes of gucci, prada and dior in sheffield? limey's sell a little, but at the risk of offending people, it's an up-market Envy aimed at 'lads'.
it's a shame ecclesall road never 'happened' - there we were on the verge of having our very own sloane street, but then alicia kite, limited and robert brady left. i reckon if armani had gambled on opening his first northern shop there, we'd be well sorted now. but i guess the manchester city council are were forward thinking than sheff CC are now.
never mind - we must be the only place in the country within an hour or so of 3 harvey nics and 3 selfridges - excellent for the sales if one store runs out!

Originally posted by skyfitsboy
It would be very intresting to see a list of the stores which the council has approved for the New Retail Quarter.

It's a case of the store wanting to be here, not the Council approving them. Unfotunately, Sheffield is way down most retailers lists.

Originally posted by Tony
It's a case of the store wanting to be here, not the Council approving them. Unfotunately, Sheffield is way down most retailers lists.

Too true. I can't remember who said it but they caused a stir by saying Sheffield folk are too canny to pay the prices of stores like Selfridges and Harvey Nichols.

Orignally posted by max:
Too true. I can't remember who said it but they caused a stir by saying Sheffield folk are too canny to pay the prices of stores like Selfridges and Harvey Nichols

I don't think this is true at all and even if it was millions of visitors from outside Sheffield visit the city centre each year.

Origianlly posted by Tony:It's a case of the store wanting to be here, not the Council approving them. Unfotunately, Sheffield is way down most retailers lists

So your saying the Council has no involvement or influence over these matters at all?

i cant remember his name, but he said "sheffield women don't want posh frock shops" in reference to harvey nics. he is (was) high up in the council though.
does he not know about their international designers menswear dept, magnificent food hall, restaurants and electronic gadgetary - not to mention the country's second best Christmas Hamper catalogue?

Originally posted by richynomates
i cant remember his name, but he said "sheffield women don't want posh frock shops" in reference to harvey nics. he is (was) high up in the council though.
does he not know about their international designers menswear dept, magnificent food hall, restaurants and electronic gadgetary - not to mention the country's second best Christmas Hamper catalogue?

I thought he was a She and was at the very top

I worked for many years for a huge multi-national hotel company which has a number of brands across the different market segments. I was opening manager of a hotell in the budget range in Sheffield. The company already had a mid range hotel in the City. At the time of the Heart of the City project, the Council approached the Company with a view to opening a top end hotel in what will now be the McDonalds hotel site. Basically, they were laughed out of the offices. They were told the company may consider Birmingham, Manchester, Glasgow, Cardiff, Edinburgh and at the outside L**ds (the brand has a hotel in London, the only one in the UK). Sheffield didnt stand a chance. The council were told that the brand was an international brand for international cities and Sheffield was regarded as a run down city with the lowest room rates in the country - worse than Nottingham, Bristol and others. The chances of the brand coming into Sheffield were less than zero.

A few people need to understand that in national terms, the image of Sheffield is regarded almost as third world and with a backward council that would not even let an IKEA into the city it has absolutely no chance of improving on that.

Originally posted by MobileB
I thought he was a She and was at the very top


it was the duputy mayor of the time, mick pye. though to look at "her", you'd think she agrees!

Originally posted by MobileB:
The council were told that the brand was an international brand for international cities and Sheffield was regarded as a run down city with the lowest room rates in the country - worse than Nottingham, Bristol and others. The chances of the brand coming into Sheffield were less than zero.

A few people need to understand that in national terms, the image of Sheffield is regarded almost as third world and with a backward council that would not even let an IKEA into the city it has absolutely no chance of improving on that.

All doom and gloom forcast for Sheffield then?

If no one within Sheffield is even prepared to discuss the possibilties of International brands estabilishing themselves in the city then there's no hope for Sheffield ever becoming a booming, vibrant, successful city.

That's the trouble with the Sheffield City Council and alot of the people here, there's no sense of confidence in Sheffield or pride in its promotion.

Originally posted by skyfitsboy
All doom and gloom forcast for Sheffield then?

If no one within Sheffield is even prepared to discuss the possibilties of International brands estabilishing themselves in the city then there's no hope for Sheffield ever becoming a booming, vibrant, successful city.

That's the trouble with the Sheffield City Council and alot of the people here, there's no sense of confidence in Sheffield or pride in its promotion.

I couldnt agree with you more. But unfortunately, the people in power are not forward thinking in that manner. Instead of building up the city in that way by allowing IKEA and such to come and then taking the next level up, they reject for short sighted reasons such as John Lewis do not like a bit of competition. I was born and brought up in Sheffield, moved around the country, and came back. No one would blow the Sheffield trumpet more than me. But, the city is seen as backwards (not helped by Full Monty I hasten to add) and bit part planning by the council does not help.

is the mystery hotel chain the sheraton? it must be a park lane hotel, and the rest - i can think of other ones in the uk. anyway - back to the point(!) - what is mcdonald hotels? they do sound nice, but surely hyatt/sheraton/hilton/intercontinental/malmaison or radisson edwardian could have been offered? at least we've heard of them, and as we've probably agreed, it only takes one internationally recogniced brand to invest, and the rest come flooding.
surely, the Council must be aware of potential interest in the NRQ by well known brands by now??

Originally posted by skyfitsboy
So your saying the Council has no involvement or influence over these matters at all?
That's right.

I thought that this comment summed it up nicely...

Originally posted by MobileB
A few people need to understand that in national terms, the image of Sheffield is regarded almost as third world and with a backward council that would not even let an IKEA into the city it has absolutely no chance of improving on that.

And this comment sums up the politicians attitude...

Originally posted by richynomates
i cant remember his name, but he said "sheffield women don't want posh frock shops" in reference to harvey nics. he is (was) high up in the council though.

However...
Originally posted by richynomates
what is mcdonald hotels? they do sound nice, but surely hyatt/sheraton/hilton/intercontinental/malmaison or radisson edwardian could have been offered? at least we've heard of them, and as we've probably agreed, it only takes one internationally recogniced brand to invest, and the rest come flooding.


Don't worry about McDonald Hotels (http://www.macdonaldhotels.co.uk/). They are a very good PREMIER hotel group who specialise in country house hotels, city boutiques, luxury inns, etc. Sheffield is a bit 'chain' for them, but give them credit for comitting. There isn't a hotel in Sheffield close to the standard that McDonald take for the norm. Fingers crossed eh?


This city has to put the past behind it, forget the 70 years of old labour patriachal socialism and get on with the future;

like...
Nottingham
Leeds
Manchester
Birmingham
Glasgow
Liverpool

It's going to take time, and the first seeds are there, but we can only start now. Out of date unrealistic civic pride should be put in the cupboard and locked away until it's safe to come out

Originally posted by skyfitsboy
Anyone think we will ever get a Harvey Nicks store in Sheffield?

If dirty leeds can have one why can't we?

John Lewis snubbed leeds in favour of us and now Manchester, Birmingham and Edinburgh all have bigger Harvey Nicks stores than leeds.

All the towns you mention are all fully open on Sunday.

Not only that, but they all manage with out of town shopping centres (White Rose, Trafford Centre) without moaning that it's taking trade from the city centre.

Manchester has 2 Selfridges!

Sheffield centre only has 1 department store of any note.


Mind you... if Sheffield people started spending a bit...!

Excuse me Tony, ..

but please don't misquote me, I never said "A few people need to understand that in national terms, the image of Sheffield is regarded almost as third world and with a backward council that would not even let an IKEA into the city it has absolutely no chance of improving on that." that was originally posted by MobileB.

Originally posted by:Tony
This city has to put the past behind it, forget the 70 years of old labour patriachal socialism and get on with the future;

like...
Nottingham
Leeds
Manchester
Birmingham
Glasgow
Liverpool

I think you'll find that this is exactly what the city is trying to do - which is why Sheffield One, a partnership of Sheffield City Council, Yorkshire Forward and English Partnerships was created, to take Sheffield into the future like the other big cities already have done.

Maybe these link's will help convince you: http://www.sheffield1.com/home.html
http://www.sheffieldfirst.net/

Orignally posted by Tony:
Sheffield centre only has 1 department store of any note.

Would Marks & Spencers and Debenhams not be noteworthy then?

Originally posted by skyfitsboy
Excuse me Tony, ..

but please don't misquote me, I never said "A few people need to understand that in national terms, the image of Sheffield is regarded almost as third world and with a backward council that would not even let an IKEA into the city it has absolutely no chance of improving on that." that was originally posted by MobileB.



I think you'll find that this is exactly what the city is trying to do - which is why Sheffield One, a partnership of Sheffield City Council, Yorkshire Forward and English Partnerships was created, to take Sheffield into the future like the other big cities already have done.

Maybe these link's will help convince you: http://www.sheffield1.com/home.html
http://www.sheffieldfirst.net/

My apologies... I merely used the quote button. :huh: However, I've just changed it.

I know all about S1. They aren't making much progress though are they?

Originally posted by Tony:
I know all about S1. They aren't making much progress though are they?

Apparently Sheffield One is bang on schedule with the next phase now currently progressing with the construction of the new World Class Square outside the train station, which at the minute is pretty hard to miss if you frequent the station.

Also the £12.5 million investment programme to transform the City Hall into a state-of-the-art, regional cultural and conference centre is well underway.

Seems like progress to me.

Its important to remember that the S1 Masterplan will not be fully realised until 2009 with new exciting investments being added all the time.

http://www.sheffield1.com/newsDetail.asp?ID=46

to say that sheffield one is not makin any progress is a little short sighted and impatient i think. They've got a big task on their hands and have already encouraged many exciting new developments. Harvey nicks or selfridges aren't going to decide over night that they want to open in sheffield but wait til the nrq actually gets under way and im sure the interest will come.

Originally posted by richynomates
is the mystery hotel chain the sheraton? it must be a park lane hotel, and the rest - i can think of other ones in the uk. anyway - back to the point(!) - what is mcdonald hotels? they do sound nice, but surely hyatt/sheraton/hilton/intercontinental/malmaison or radisson edwardian could have been offered? at least we've heard of them, and as we've probably agreed, it only takes one internationally recogniced brand to invest, and the rest come flooding.
surely, the Council must be aware of potential interest in the NRQ by well known brands by now??

Nope none of them!! McDonalds are based around the Glasgow area and have a number north of the border. They have a terrible reputation within the industry as a company to work for.

Hyatt and Sheraton have no UK presence; Hilton are already in Sheffield; Intercontinental is a downmarket Holiday Inn and Malmaison was going to open a site in Sheffield on Leopold Street but pulled out. Radisson have pulled back on their expansion programme cos they dont have the dosh!

The brand involved would probably compete with Hilton, Marriot and Holiday Inn but possibly a little more upmarket then these two. Hence no reason for Sheffield!

Originally posted by jazz
to say that sheffield one is not makin any progress is a little short sighted and impatient i think. They've got a big task on their hands and have already encouraged many exciting new developments. Harvey nicks or selfridges aren't going to decide over night that they want to open in sheffield but wait til the nrq actually gets under way and im sure the interest will come.



Originally posted by skyfitsboy
Apparently Sheffield One is bang on schedule with the next phase now currently progressing with the construction of the new World Class Square outside the train station, which at the minute is pretty hard to miss if you frequent the station.

Also the £12.5 million investment programme to transform the City Hall into a state-of-the-art, regional cultural and conference centre is well underway.

Seems like progress to me.

Its important to remember that the S1 Masterplan will not be fully realised until 2009 with new exciting investments being added all the time.

http://www.sheffield1.com/newsDetail.asp?ID=46
OK then let's do these one at a time.

The Train Station is pump primed by Rail Track (as was). It has little to do with S1

The City Hall scheme has been on the cards for years. It only needed money. It has nothing to do with S1.

Hmm, well that depends on whether you use the Sheffield 1 version of timescales. By most peoples standards they are at least 4 years behind schedule. Targets move to suit. You probably don't remember, but do you recall what the SDC did in 4 years? Take a drive around Attercliffe and Meadowhall to check.

If you want to get picky, what's happened to Castlegate (15 years and nothing yet), Cambridge St (15 years), E-Campus (never going to happen in the next 15 years).

Sheffield 1 have an almost impossible task, but now that Allison Nimmo has been 'asked to leave' we have a new opportunity with Bill Kirk. We hope he listens, and I and others really do wish him well.

However, there is a bit of a flaw in the NRQ scheme because none (that's right - NONE) of the private landowners have even been approached to discuss purchasing the land. S1 and SCC lay claim to 70% of the land being sorted. Well that's fine, as long as you don't question what that 70% comprises... That being Sheffield Council, Highways, John Lewis and the S Yorks Joint Authority. All of which I think you will find weren't exactly the hardest deals to tie up.

Now when they have sorted out UK Estates, Caplan, Finnegan, etc, etc, they might be able to claim progress. Unfortunately, they haven't even picked up the phone to them! Hey, they even included The Moor and Debenhams in their masterplan - both of which are owned by Deutsche Bank who have no intention of joining the party unless it is on THEIR terms.

I really believe in the need for the NRQ, but the politics behind it all means it stands a really good chance of it all falling apart... again.

Hammerson don't care about Sheffield - this is about making money. There's nothing wrong with that, but let's not be under any illusions. They have done the Bullring in the time that S1 has been wittering on about the Heart of the City.

Take off the brakes! Let the market get on with it. Stop holding it back. There are some good people and good firms that want to make a difference, but old fashioned control politics is preventing this city going forward. We only have one chance. Let’s not waste it for a few votes.

Originally posted by MobileB
Nope none of them!! McDonalds are based around the Glasgow area and have a number north of the border. They have a terrible reputation within the industry as a company to work for.
Hmm, that's funny. A pal came to Sheffield to set up the F&B operation for that 'budget hotel' chain that you alluded to. He was poached from McDonalds, and he rather rated them.

Sheffield just needs a modern city centre hotel that you can book nationally. Nothing flash, forget mad claims about it being 5*. Please can we just have something where the taps work and the food is edible?

Originally posted by MobileB


Hyatt and Sheraton have no UK presence; Hilton are already in Sheffield; Intercontinental is a downmarket Holiday Inn and Malmaison was going to open a site in Sheffield on Leopold Street but pulled out. Radisson have pulled back on their expansion programme cos they dont have the dosh!

The brand involved would probably compete with Hilton, Marriot and Holiday Inn but possibly a little more upmarket then these two. Hence no reason for Sheffield!

i'm beginning to doubt your extraordinary hotel knowledge:
1. there's a sheraton on park lane and one at heathrow.
2. there's a hyatt in birmingham
hilton already have one in sheffield, but why not another? why is it that one of anything for sheffield is enough (apart from discount shops!) we have 6 nettos and no waitrose, but thankfully that is changing (and no - it isn't a 7th netto!)
will sheffield one be the answer to all our prayers then? will a trip to a decent department store not involve a return to london?
we shall wait....

This is for Tony

Where the hell do you get all your information from and where's the evidence?

Also why are your post's always so negative, they are really depressing!

Originally posted by richynomates
i'm beginning to doubt your extraordinary hotel knowledge:
1. there's a sheraton on park lane and one at heathrow.
2. there's a hyatt in birmingham
hilton already have one in sheffield, but why not another? why is it that one of anything for sheffield is enough (apart from discount shops!) we have 6 nettos and no waitrose, but thankfully that is changing (and no - it isn't a 7th netto!)
will sheffield one be the answer to all our prayers then? will a trip to a decent department store not involve a return to london?
we shall wait....

I said no UK presence not no UK hotels. Big difference. But I think you said it all, cannot really see their portfolio saying Park Lane, Heathrow and Sheffield somehow.

Two hotels in the same city with Sheffield's ARR for one brand? - Holiday Inn tried it for a few months (although admitedly the franchise operation of the Royal Vic Holiday Inn made the relationship a bit fraught I understand)

hey skyfits? i'm guessing you work for sheffOne? in which case - can't you go into people's offices and get a sneak preview of the plans for sheffield? if they involve drab retailers and anything mentioning "budget", rip it up, or just place harvey nics literature in their pigeon holes.
anything's worth a try!!
if you don't work for sheffOne - let's all break in one night? can't be worse than eastenders at the moment..

Originally posted by Tony
Hmm, that's funny. A pal came to Sheffield to set up the F&B operation for that 'budget hotel' chain that you alluded to. He was poached from McDonalds, and he rather rated them.

Sheffield just needs a modern city centre hotel that you can book nationally. Nothing flash, forget mad claims about it being 5*. Please can we just have something where the taps work and the food is edible? [/B]

I didn't poach anyone from McDonalds Hotels I can assure you so obviously diff hotel!!!

Companies are very reluctant to release turnover figures, (I know mine in Sheffield was the best for the entire group in the UK for two years running btw!) but I think you will find that McDonalds joined a survey a few years ago along with all the major brands (Holiday Inn refused to join in) and they, along with Britannia Hotels, had the worst turnover of staff in an industry with high turnover figures.

I was talking about, though, industry image and if you're pal was so happy and loyal, why did he leave? Pay? Perhaps thats the reason for the bad image and turnover!

Well skyfitsboy, maybe you think I'm just making it all up, but I'm glad you see it as information :thumbsup: What do you mean by evidence, and why do you think I should prove something that's there for people to easily see for themselves?

It just comes from being professionally involved in regeneration.
Sorry if you find it negative, but I personally think that you have to realise where we are, and where we need to go before we can make the journey. Headlines, masterplans and strategies don't regenerate, action does.

Progress is being made, but there a lot of people who are very unhappy with the process and methods. There are too much political shinanigans in this city, and it's slowing things down.

If you want to make comparisons of city centres, then go and look at the cities I keep mentioning. Sheffield has a lot of other great things going for it, but my particular interest / concern is city centre regeneration.

Originally posted by MobileB
hey skyfits? i'm guessing you work for sheffOne?

LOL! I don't work for Sheffield One unfortunately, but I wish I did!

Perhaps Tony should be working for S1 with all his regeneration knowledge?

Originally posted by MobileB
I didn't poach anyone from McDonalds Hotels I can assure you so obviously diff hotel!!!

Companies are very reluctant to release turnover figures, (I know mine in Sheffield was the best for the entire group in the UK for two years running btw!) but I think you will find that McDonalds joined a survey a few years ago along with all the major brands (Holiday Inn refused to join in) and they, along with Britannia Hotels, had the worst turnover of staff in an industry with high turnover figures.

I was talking about, though, industry image and if you're pal was so happy and loyal, why did he leave? Pay? Perhaps thats the reason for the bad image and turnover!
Obviously a different hotel. :P

Well without giving him a chance to respond directly, from memory he left McDonald because he was moving all over the country all the time and was offered a chance to come back to Sheffield and set up a brand new operation.

Maybe within the industry McDonald has a high turnover, but as a customer, they are VERY good, and I actually like the Britannia (now rebranded as a Millennium) in Grovesner Square too! Obviously you as an employee have a different perspective which I respect, but as a customer... well isn't that what matters in this particular conversation?


Originally posted by skyfitsboy
Perhaps Tony should be working for S1 with all his regeneration knowledge?
Hehe, thank's for the compliment. :thumbsup:. Like all such agencies, they have great people and useless people. My own interest is in getting things done within my own narrow sphere, and I don't think I could put up with the poliitical crap that they go through. Anyway, they couldnt afford me ;)

good old regeneration! having worked in it for 4 years (in two different objective one zones), i gave it up a bad job. there's always far too many agencies with too many fingers in each others pies, so to speak. and we wonder why nothing gets done.
will it ever get better???

Just for information the councillor who said "Sheffield women dont want posh frock shops" was Labour councillor Mike Pye, who is now the Lord Mayor!

Is anyone else worried that the person selling our City for the next year holds the above view?

In this thread people have reffered to the Council being backward and in general not business friendly, the old socialist republic! Unfortunetly it was the people of Sheffield who voted for a Labour Council when they had the chance to change things last June in the local elections.

I'm afraid people can't complain about the Council turning down retailers like IKEA when they voted in an "anti-business" party ( its still Old Labour in Sheffield). If people dont wake up Sheffield will always be lagging behind other Cities such as Leeds, Nottingham, Manchester.:loopy:

i think it's deeper than that - basically, sheffield people love to moan and complain - so, if we were better than the other cities, then, what would we do all day?
I know - complain about the prices in Harvey Nics; moan about the assembly instructions of the Svardfunkt wardrobe from Ikea; wonder whether Yong Phoo Chan has beef (and lard) in it, and complain that the Barolo Gran Reserva has a label written in Italian!!
I think i prefer it as it is...

Maybe.

But i think the point that the Council is anti-business and pre-occupied with wanting to control everything is valid.

I believe that a change in Council would offer a more business friendly approach encouraging competition in the City centre. As i live in Sheffield i dont want to travel to Manchester or Leeds everytime i want to shop. I want the best stores in Sheffield because we deserve them! There is absolutley no reason why Sheffield should be any different to other large northen City (in terms of attracting retailers), but we are! And i believe the old Labour socialist republic run by Blunkett and his cronies are to blame for the culture in this City.

Rant over!

By the way if sorted our City centre out im sure Sheffielders would find somthing else to complain about!

Things might be slow in Sheffield- in fact they are incredibly slow to develop.
And money is often wasted on daft things - likes cobbled central barrier on Parkway !!!
The council is world infamous.
The contemporary architecture is, well... ...awful!

These are the bad aspects... ...but there's always a flip side to the coin.

Some good things are going on here and there.
Other towns and cities will be dilapidated when Sheffield is finally finished.
The posh central barrier will need weeding thus creating employment.
The council can only get better / sophisticated. (Though not by encouraging people to leave regularly - Alison Nimo was responsible for Manchester - she's damned good at "the big picture management" when she's trusted with the reigns - but petty mindedness involves tedious details which is not her forte.)
The architecture can only get better ... ...Hatfield Caukwell and Davidson were OK once upon a time... If there's anyone reading this who counts ... ...please, please, please get someone with fresh eyes to consult on new projects... Its so depressing... take some risks... try a bit of flamboyant and if the objectors object give them their own medicine - I wanna SCREAM and bang heads together.

Its a small country and Harvey Nics and the project analysts for large companies are put off when they hear the gossip about wee Sheffield - it actually does have a poor reputation and I hate to say that.
The problem is that there are too many cooks spoiling our broth and that Meadow hall is around the corner.
Meadow Hall is a political bone of contention because of where it is. The council lost out on that one, as it did with Barclays Bank, Sheffield City Airport, the NCPM, IKEA and the list goes on...
But the real problem with Meadow Hall is two fold.
1) Its size is limited and this effects its contractual arrangements with lease holders and potential lease holders
2) It is easy to recognise current trading trends in a Mall. That is to say, if produce doesn't shift its visible. Meadow Hall, in the rag industry, has only recently shed its reputation as Europe’s dumping ground... That is to say, rather cruelly, that retailers would ship un sellable stock to Meadow Hall to get rid of it and minimise losses. Why? Because people in this area wouldn't buy the stock at the original retail price from Meadow Hall. So off the record MH became a seconds outlet. That has changed now - but it's taking time for the upmarket retailers to gain confidence in the region.

And it'll take a lot more persuasion - trouble is that no one person is holding the reigns and those who are are too troubled, abrasive or ignorant to do that job effectively.

I just hope noses are tasty, because once they've been cut off to spite the face they might as well become comfort food.

And what’s wrong with a fancy hotel? Elitism is here to stay. If you can’t beat it, at least try to keep up. (the BBC has an in house joke about certain Sheffield Hotels – can’t tell it here, could be slander!! )

‘Nuff Rambling (slow day at work)

Sheffield IS improving, but so are other cities. All the other usual suspects (Leeds, Manchester, Nottingham) already have what Sheffield is currently implementing, so I fear that Sheffield is always going to be one step behind, and is playing catchup.

Originally posted by alchresearch:
Sheffield IS improving, but so are other cities. All the other usual suspects (Leeds, Manchester, Nottingham) already have what Sheffield is currently implementing, so I fear that Sheffield is always going to be one step behind, and is playing catchup.

This is my biggest fear, I don't think Sheffield will ever be able to stand shoulder to shoulder with huge cities like Birmingham and Manchester, leeds maybe, but with with leeds regenerating at an amazing speed it doesn't look likely.

goose is still bitter about his beloved lib dems failing in sheffield, probably becuase they have been in power recently and things were not awful, but not a lot better either...
the accusation of anti-business is not really an argument, it's lazy thinking.... councils across the whole country would love harvey nicks, but they will only come if the demographics are right and in sheffield they are not, yet........ but we are getting there
on ikea, well ikea in nottingham is not in nottingham and ikea in leeds is not in leeds......... same for birmingham, an out of town ikea would not help the city centre regeneration
sheffield has come a long way in recent years, it does not mean that everything is now fine, but progress is there for all to see and inspite of the council which is apparently so dreadful...

The thing is, sheffield is an objective one zone for a few more years, which means there's loadsamoney up for grabs to do nice things. none of the other cities are objective one status, though i think Liverpool may be. manchester managed to catch up with birmingham from nowhere, and both have been doing regeneration for roughly the same time (if you count the B'ham Mailbox development). I reckon B'ham has took over again with the Bullring and Brindleyplace.
Point is - we have all this unique money to play catch up with, i just think we need to get a good team together, which, i think, is Sheffield One's job?

Originally posted by easyrider
councils across the whole country would love harvey nicks, but they will only come if the demographics are right and in sheffield they are not, yet........ but we are getting there

My point is that the demograhics are not right because we have had years of the "Red Flag" mentality. Why is Leeds so far ahead of Sheffield in terms of City Centre retail? Sheffield has missed the boat unfortunetly, but we can still progress.

I dont doubt that the City centre is looking better with the peace gardens and winter gardens etc. But we can do so much better!

The Council turning down IKEA is a massive blow to the City. The message sent out to business is negative. I for one am gutted that people will not be travelling from all around the region to come to Sheffield and go to IKEA and maybe come into Sheffield City Centre too. Jobs, more money in the City Centre and better shops would have been the product, but this has now gone - due to the Council.

The Demograhics will never be right when stores such as IKEA are turned down.

P.S. I agree with you that the Lib Dems are business friendly, and im glad they are on the up in Sheffield:thumbsup:

Originally posted by goose
My point is that the demograhics are not right because we have had years of the "Red Flag" mentality. Why is Leeds so far ahead of Sheffield in terms of City Centre retail? Sheffield has missed the boat unfortunetly, but we can still progress.

I dont doubt that the City centre is looking better with the peace gardens and winter gardens etc. But we can do so much better!

The Council turning down IKEA is a massive blow to the City. The message sent out to business is negative. I for one am gutted that people will not be travelling from all around the region to come to Sheffield and go to IKEA and maybe come into Sheffield City Centre too. Jobs, more money in the City Centre and better shops would have been the product, but this has now gone - due to the Council.

The Demograhics will never be right when stores such as IKEA are turned down.

P.S. I agree with you that the Lib Dems are business friendly, and im glad they are on the up in Sheffield:thumbsup:

I have to disagree on the coming into Sheffield City Centre bit. I've been to IKEA near Wakefield but didn't feel the need to continue on and visit their town centre. Ditto the one near Nottingham. The popularity of IKEA is down to the parking available as much as the cheap furniture it stocks. I doubt people would leave the nice big free car park to drive round an unfamiliar town centre looking for parking spaces.

P.S. If the lib dems are on the up in Sheffield how did they manage to buck the national trend this year and fail to remove Labour from power? :thumbsup:

amazing that leeds has done so well under "the red flag mentality"
council did not turn down ikea, just adivsed that planning laws would mean they would not be likely to get permission for an out of town store..... and so they didn't put in an application
it is also amusing that the lib dems green credentials don't come into it when it comes to huge traffic generating warehouses... kind of makes you think that being the political opposition is just a bit too eay

Originally posted by Goose:The Council turning down IKEA is a massive blow to the City. The message sent out to business is negative. I for one am gutted that people will not be travelling from all around the region to come to Sheffield and go to IKEA and maybe come into Sheffield City Centre too. Jobs, more money in the City Centre and better shops would have been the product, but this has now gone - due to the Council.

The Demograhics will never be right when stores such as IKEA are turned down.

But Goose according to Tony the council does not have any influence over these matters

Originally posted by Tony:It's a case of the store wanting to be here, not the Council approving them

Original posted by Skyfitsboy in response:So your saying the Council has no involvement or influence over these matters at all?

Reply by Tony:
That's right.

Now YOU are misquoting ME!

In the correct context it read that the Council has no say in retailers decisions to set up in Sheffield. That is a commercial decision they take. All the Council can do is to help create the right environment that is attractive to retailers. That includes granting planning consents.

Originally posted by max
I have to disagree on the coming into Sheffield City Centre bit. I've been to IKEA near Wakefield but didn't feel the need to continue on and visit their town centre. Ditto the one near Nottingham. The popularity of IKEA is down to the parking available as much as the cheap furniture it stocks. I doubt people would leave the nice big free car park to drive round an unfamiliar town centre looking for parking spaces.


I thought original plan though was for IKEA to have their first centre centre store IN Sheffield - where Castle Market is. It was to be a innovative design (at least for IKEA who's all other shops are square boxes and out of town). The car park in the scheme was planned to be used by both IKEA customers as well as other shoppers.
This plan was scrapped as Sheffield apparently has a dire need of more offices. :rolleyes:

Nomme

Originally posted by easyrider
amazing that leeds has done so well under "the red flag mentality

My point is that Leeds don't have a red flag mentality and thats why they are ahead of Sheffield.

Originally posted by max
If the lib dems are on the up in Sheffield how did they manage to buck the national trend this year and fail to remove Labour from power?

Maybe thats a question you should put to the leader of the Lib Dems whos on this forum for an interview.

The same goes for the question on green credentials.

I fail to see any local Lbour politicians putting themselves up for an open honest interview, i wonder why?:confused:

As for Labour bucking the national trend in Sheffield, well that is certainly a slight bending of the truth! Their majority on the Council was cut from 11 to just 4.:thumbsup:

as the politicians are a waste of time, i think we should flatten the town hall and make a 100 floor skyscraping beauty in it's place - ikea on the ground floors, harvey nics on the next few, a classy hotel in the middle, plush offices above that, and then finally, luxury appartments on the top.
problem solved.

there was a swing away from the lib dems in sheffield, if that is not bucking the national trend what is?
so labour in leeds were not really labour?
who is leader of lib dems in sheffield? surely they have got to have got rid the old one following three failures in a row to win the council

Originally posted by richynomates
as the politicians are a waste of time, i think we should flatten the town hall and make a 100 floor skyscraping beauty in it's place - ikea on the ground floors, harvey nics on the next few, a classy hotel in the middle, plush offices above that, and then finally, luxury appartments on the top.
problem solved.

This is Sheffield not Salford Quays

They should never have got rid of the hole in the road! :D

Originally posted by easyrider
there was a swing away from the lib dems in sheffield, if that is not bucking the national trend what is?
so labour in leeds were not really labour?
who is leader of lib dems in sheffield? surely they have got to have got rid the old one following three failures in a row to win the council

Wrong again im afraid, you really should do some more resreach on electoral swing. When Labours majority gos down from 11 to just 4 that is not good.:( (for LAbour at least, it is for Sheffield in my humble opinion)

Leeds Council is in no overall control, so im afriad your wrong again. At least your consistent.:(

Why dont you ask the Lib Dem leader himself why he is leader, hes on this forum giving an interview.:)

No, Chri5, I agree.
But they did.
They should've jumped into it and then filled it in.

Archaeologists in years to come would think they've discovered the missing links.

Originally posted by Tony:Now YOU are misquoting ME!

I may have misunderstood you but I haven't misquoted you.

lib dems gained a seat, well done, but their overall share of the vote went down (that's what swing is, percentage of vote, not seats held), when labour nationally are doing very badly and in other places lib dems have capitalised... not here, you've got to wonder why?
lib dems are in power in leeds, or rather they will be for 6 months and then torys for 6 months (alternating)..... that'll work well then, trully a perfect example of no overall control, at all
the lib dems may well win power in sheffield again one day, but perhaps not until they stop blaming labour for everything that is wrong in this city....... it's boring, incorrect and unimaginative
if the lib dems were so great, why did they only stay in power for 3 years in sheffield?????????????????????????

It's occurring to me that the politically minded types are generally more concerned about the politics than how the quality of life correlates with the outcome of their decisions.

As a champagne socialist I'd make sure the bubbles freely flow for all and don't give a toss if it’s the cork you twist or the bottle.

This is a typical outcome of politics-misplacing the emphasis. This thread has fallen into political squablings, instead of talking about the real issue- the regeneration of our city centre. I think too many people are being negative about our city. Im not saying we shouldn't be realistic, but maybe we should use our strong opinions to get on at the council a bit to make them get their arses in gear. I for one am very proud of my city and think it is makin great progress and i admire skyfitsboy's pride aswell. We could do with a little more of it.

Originally posted by nomme

This plan was scrapped as Sheffield apparently has a dire need of more offices. :rolleyes:

Nomme

All work and no play makes Sheffield a dull city.

The honest truth is that Sheffield doesn't (at the moment) have the better paid jobs base that other cities have.

That's what happens when you set your sights low.

Originally posted by Tony
The honest truth is that Sheffield doesn't (at the moment) have the better paid jobs base that other cities have.

That's what happens when you set your sights low.


But surely that's historical. Leeds and Manchester have always been centres of 'commerce', whereas Sheffield's claim to fame has been industrial. We've had the industrial rug pulled from under us and there's been little of any lasting value to replace it.

Goddamn label slaves!! Get a life, buy cheaper clothes and donate the rest to charity.

Anyone who buys designer items is a friggin sheep - baa baa

Try being a shepherd for a change and lead the way.

Originally posted by Greybeard
But surely that's historical. Leeds and Manchester have always been centres of 'commerce', whereas Sheffield's claim to fame has been industrial. We've had the industrial rug pulled from under us and there's been little of any lasting value to replace it.

Cobblers. :P

2 words... wool and cotton.

Sheffield has just never made the best of itself because of the 'little mester' attitude that we seem to be proud of. It's held this city back for years.

Nottingham has a similar engineering and mining history, but it seems to have done rather well despite the decimation of mining, and engineering.

I really do believe its about attitude. One of the lovely things about this forum is that it allows people to express opinions for everyone to see where politicians can't cover them up. :thumbsup:

Originally posted by Tony
...Nottingham has a similar engineering and mining history, but it seems to have done rather well despite the decimation of mining, and engineering.

I really do believe its about attitude. One of the lovely things about this forum is that it allows people to express opinions for everyone to see where politicians can't cover them up. :thumbsup:

Like a couple of years ago when the leaders of the City Council infamously said (with great pride and a straight face) that Sheffield was now at the stage where Leeds was 15 years ago?

And please Tony, don't go supporting Nottingham. I can just tolerate Leeds, but not those coal-miners strike-breaking scabs in Nottinghamshire :mad:

Oi! Abdul!

Not all miners in Notts. were scabs. My family WERE on strike through the whole sorry mess and suffered big time for it.

Nothing more to add!

Joe

Originally posted by Abdul
Like a couple of years ago when the leaders of the City Council infamously said (with great pride and a straight face) that Sheffield was now at the stage where Leeds was 15 years ago?

And please Tony, don't go supporting Nottingham. I can just tolerate Leeds, but not those coal-miners strike-breaking scabs in Nottinghamshire :mad:

Umm, well without going too far off topic...

A. Nottingham / Notts - didn't support the miners strike - regenerated nicely thank you.
B. Sheffield / S Yorks - supported the miners - look at the above thread!

Maybe that tells us something about attitude and its implications?

Originally posted by Tony


Sheffield has just never made the best of itself because of the 'little mester' attitude that we seem to be proud of. It's held this city back for years.


Tony

I don't disagree with that, but was just trying to suggest a reason for it.

True Leeds nd Manchester had their base industries of wool and cotton, but they also had, especially in their city centres, the regional headquarters of large financial institutions; - international trading companies, banks, insurance companies, building societies etc. These will have significantly influenced city centre development and the focus of the local authorities in accomodating them and attracting more of the same.

In the 1950s I regularly lugged my suitcase from London Road staion to Dean St. bus station and remember thinking then, how much grander Manchester was than Sheffield.

IMHO Shefffield has become a ribbon development that can only be changed with major surgery. [I never understood why/how Cole Bros. allowed themselves to be sidelined into a backwater like Barkers Pool, - I imagine lots of visitors never realise it's there!]

I'd like to know what Manchester would be like today if the IRA bomb hadn't caused the damage and subsequent regeneration that followed.

Sheffield isn't all bad, it's just the (inbred) colloquial attitude that holds things back sometimes.

Forget the bomb, Manchester was ALWAYS better. Leeds never had a bomb, or Nottingham.

Can you imagine what Manchester would have been like if it had been awarded the Olympics?

Can you imagine Sheffield even imagining that it could bid?

Originally posted by Tony
Sheffield isn't all bad, it's just the (inbred) colloquial attitude that holds things back sometimes.

Forget the bomb, Manchester was ALWAYS better. Leeds never had a bomb, or Nottingham.

Can you imagine what Manchester would have been like if it had been awarded the Olympics?

Can you imagine Sheffield even imagining that it could bid?

Isn't this exactly the inbred colloquial attitude you're talking about?

We bid for and ran a successful World Student Games without the massive government funding which helped M'cr with the Commonwealth Games or is going to help London with the Olympic bid.

Originally posted by skyfitsboy
This is my biggest fear, I don't think Sheffield will ever be able to stand shoulder to shoulder with huge cities like Birmingham and Manchester, leeds maybe, but with with leeds regenerating at an amazing speed it doesn't look likely.

Do you still belive this??

Originally posted by Sony
Do you still belive this??

Maybe, just maybe;)

ooh, er. I skipped straight from page 1 to 3 on that one and entered a different time zone! Loads of off topic stuff is going to make me sound a bit irrelevent(?) then.

Why is the solution to every problem in Sheffield to wine about the council? I moved away and came back. I still recall the slating that meadowhall got from the local populace in it's early years. The tram? It's image outside the city is very positive. It paints Sheffield as cutting edge. Sheffielders are still grumbling about it. The inverted snobbery that exists in Sheffield is probably it's biggest obstruction to progress. I thought it was PRESSURE UPON THE COUNCIL that sent Ikea to Doncaster(?). Big mistake. Places like Ikea make others take notice that a place has retail potential