Last Saturday I walked past a few capaigners on fargate who where against the fluoridation of water?!?
I thought this was a good thing, but they said it's illegal!

What to you lot think?

It is the fluoride which they use for crowd control - apparently it makes people more open to suggestion, so it doesn't really sound like a good thing - it is already used in America so i think that indicates quite a lot!

The fluoride which helps your teeth is a different type, but wouldn't it make sense to put that fluoride in the water seeing as it is so hard to get an NHS dentist these days?

Originally posted by chri5
Last Saturday I walked past a few capaigners on fargate who where against the fluoridation of water?!?
I thought this was a good thing, but they said it's illegal!

What to you lot think?

Take a look here (http://www.npwa.freeserve.co.uk/fluoride.html) and make your own mind up .

My kids have perfect cavity free teeth. They have never used fluoride toothpaste and do eat sweets and have sweet drinks but they have them in moderation and brush well and regularly.

They drink plenty of milk and I do try for a good diet but kids being kids they sometimes win.

They are living proof that fluoride is not necessary for good strong healthy teeth. If you are interested fluoride free toothpaste can be bought in Boots.

In large enough doses, fluoride is a fatal poison. Having it in our drinking water, as well as in our toothpaste, could well do more harm than good.

Also, fluoride in large amounts stain your teeth a nasty beige brown colour. Pleasant. :rolleyes:

There maybe health concerns with fluoride, but I think the conspiracy theory about mass mind control is a little OTT. If that was the case then we'd be more suggestible to everything. I'm still saying no to things as much as ever.

The trouble with the fluoridation debate is that people who are violently opposed to it often seem to know very little about chemistry, or for that matter science in general. They seem to think that because nerve gases etc. are compounds that contain fluorine, or because fluorine itself is a particularly nasty gas, that fluoride ions, which are chemically entirely different, are somehow going to do the same things to them. This is about as logical as saying that you won't put salt on your chips because sodium chloride is related to sodium cyanide.

The fact is that fluoride is indeed toxic in relatively large doses, but like a lot of other things that are toxic in large doses, it's also pretty essential in small doses. Those people who are protesting on Fargate one minute will probably be in the lealth food shop buying selenium supplements or whatever the next minute, without any sense of irony.

As to whether it should be added to our drinking water, I personally don't see any harm in it at all at the levels which we are talking about. But the decision should be made on a scientific basis. People who tell you that the authorities are trying to adulterate our water with industrial waste and so on, as I was informed by some anti-fluoridation campaigner recently, are just scare-mongering.

And what's all this about crowd control, and 'different sorts' of fluoride?

Originally posted by Mo
Take a look here (http://www.npwa.freeserve.co.uk/fluoride.html) and make your own mind up .


That NPWA site looks a little hysterical, but this report...

http://www.npwa.freeserve.co.uk/basel.html

...from Switzerland has a ring of reason to it.

I can see that fluoride in the water can act through the digestive system and the bloodstream etc...but how is fluoride in toothpaste effective ?

Who swallows toothpaste ?? :rolleyes:

But do agree with you Mo...good diet and regular brushing is the answer.

What about the small amount of people who have adverse reactions to fluoride, will the water company be paying for them to have bottled fluoride free water.Personally I dont want fluoride in my drinking water as its one of the things I have found to trigger migrane.But I am just one in a city of many opinions

There's a link to flouride and mind control. There were experiments undertaken by the Nazi party in Germany. But that's it. The quantities and forms were different. It's just a conspiracy theory.

As for it being bad for you, so is anything in certain quantities and forms. And did you know cyanide can be beneficial? If bound in a certain molecular structure.

The question is, should things be added to our water for us? Or should we be free to decide what to ingest?

My vote is firmly on the side of choice. So NO, I don't want to see the flouridation of our domestic water supplies. If I want flouride for my teeth, I'll bnuy flouride toothpaste. If I don't I should be free to buy non-flouride paste. I'd say the same if they wanted to add something like vitamin C to the drinking water.

Our water should be (as much as the man-made water cycle permits)H2O and nothing else.

I loved it when I was at university when my Analytical Chemistry lecturer explained how the fluoride gets in your teeth - via blood vessels in your teeth, not through the outside.... so brushing on a fluoride toothpaste doesnt work unless you swallow some of it whilst brushing... hence fluorinating water isnt so bad as it makes up for those who do spit and dont swallow:P

As I understand (correct me if im wrong) local health chiefs want fluoride in the water to help combat tooth decay found in children in many poor or deprived families, but aren’t these target audience familes are the very ones that are less likely to be drinking water in the first place and more likely to be drinking gallons of fizzy pop?

Seems a pointless excercise to me.

Originally posted by metalman
Those people who are protesting on Fargate one minute will probably be in the health food shop buying selenium supplements or whatever the next minute, without any sense of irony.


Couldn't agree more!

The trouble with putting fluoride in the water supply is that there is no measure of how much an individual is consuming as it all depends on how much you drink. Link that to the use of fluoride toothpaste, the fluoride occuring in foodstuffs and any fluoride supplements somebody may be taking and wow a recipe for OD.

If I want fluoride then I can proactively make sure that I get it but I don't and I should have the right to drink water without it.

I don't like the idea of yet another chemical being added to our water. Sure if it does combat tooth decay then I could see what they would be getting at.
But I think everyone should be able to decide wether or not they want this stuff.

I personally don't like being forced into something.

I read the other day that we now also have Prozac in our tap water

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/92/101794.htm?lastselectedguid=%7B5FE84E90-BC77-4056-A91C-9531713CA348%7D

I think it is all good stuff...
...anti depressants on one hand, mind control on the other.

All we need now is to be told that were happy, to chill out and behave ourselves when we pile out of the pubs/bars.

We may even begin to believe that Sheffield's big red brother is doing a good job!

Excuse me while I sniff my monitor !!!

smell o vision is really here, check this out:
http://www.engadget.com/entry/9772346244511980/

As someone who has had a lot a teeth problems in the past I am not unsympathetic but do feel on balance that floridation of water is not the best answer.

It should be possible for people to look after their teeth on an individual basis by brushing, flossing, mouth washes, chewing gum, avoiding certain foods, not smoking and visiting the dentist without floridating water which affects everyone. It is up to people to take enough responsibility for their own health and not do something which may be detramental to everyone.

Ok, view from someone who's family is full of dentists...

Evidence time and again shows that when in the water, people's teeth are better.

Perhaps it should be a choice, but it works in water and not so sure it works in toothpaste. Not even people in the toothpaste industry have been able to give me answer which must say something!

It's believed that the people who get the most benefit from it being in the water are in fact the "poorer" in society, and they are the people who would lose out the most.

Also bare in mind that bad teeth can cause health problems elsewhere, particularly when an infection is involved.

Sensitive to fluoride? I'm sympathetic, but some people will always have a problem or allergy to something that 95%+ people don't. Fluoride in water or a certain type of pollen (in my case - and its a bloody nightmare), or nuts, etc.

Originally posted by miggy
It's believed that the people who get the most benefit from it being in the water are in fact the "poorer" in society, and they are the people who would lose out the most.
.

Aren't these also the same people who have a poor diet saturated with refined sugar? Perhaps the solution would be to persuade them to alter their diets. As well as having a positive effect on the health of their teeth it would also have a beneficial effect on their general well being (and the rest of us wouldn't be forced to ingest fluoride).

Diet has a HUGE effect on society. More evidence is appearing of diet's affect on children and adults behaviour, which includes affects on schooling and crime (all ages).

However I think people know that they should eat healthily, they just choose not to because they think it's expensive (it isn't, esp if you don't always shop at supermarkets for their rubbish veg!) or they (think they) don't like the food. Or the like sugary foods too much. Don't we all :)

You have to start in children, and that means decent bloody school meals.

If you haven't seen Super-Size-Me, a brilliant film about MaccyD's and fast food, then you should. It includes a segment on how healthy school meals cost no less than rubbish ones and probably have a beneficial effect on behaviour.

Originally posted by miggy
Diet has a HUGE effect on society. More evidence is appearing of diet's affect on children and adults behaviour, which includes affects on schooling and crime (all ages).

However I think people know that they should eat healthily, they just choose not to because they think it's expensive (it isn't, esp if you don't always shop at supermarkets for their rubbish veg!) or they (think they) don't like the food. Or the like sugary foods too much. Don't we all :)

You have to start in children, and that means decent bloody school meals.

If you haven't seen Super-Size-Me, a brilliant film about MaccyD's and fast food, then you should. It includes a segment on how healthy school meals cost no less than rubbish ones and probably have a beneficial effect on behaviour.

Yes I read somewhere recently that more money is spent/head on prisoners meals than on school dinners.

It always horrifies me when we go out for a meal and ask for the childrens menu. It's always the same old garbage of chicken nuggets,chips, sausage, pizza etc etc. Why can't they provide smaller portions of real food from the adult menu?

Because too many parents don't want to deal with kids complaining and many already bring them up on rubbish diets. I may not have liked having to eat healthy food when I was younger, but I'm damn glad I didn't get used to coke, crisps, and chips every night now!

Perhaps the folks can be forgiven after all ;)