You couldnt make it up could you,lags to get cash to leave the country:(

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13546046,00.html

Mind you nothing suprises me with this goverment.;)

2,500 is a hell of a lot cheaper than keeping them in jail.

2,500 is a hell of a lot cheaper than keeping them in jail.

Whos to say they wont take the cash then come back again to commit more crime?

Other countries just boot them out.
What the hell we need to pay them to leave for is past me.

Current costs to house a prisoner in the UK per annum are £37,500 for an adult and 42,500 for a young offender.

£2,500......bargain

They would have to re enter the UK around 15 times for it to be a loss situation

So your point Roy is?

Current costs to house a prisoner in the UK per annum are £37,500 for an adult and 42,500 for a young offender.

£2,500......bargain

They would have to re enter the UK around 15 times for it to be a loss situation

So your point Roy is?

I'm guessing it's why bother paying them at all.
Give me any reason why paying them is better than just shipping them out as other countries do.

I'm guessing it's why bother paying them at all.
Give me any reason why paying them is better than just shipping them out as other countries do.

Probably because it would involve a lot more expense then £2,500 to have officers arrest them, drive them to the airport and accompany them to their destination. You do the maths, £2,500 seems a bargain.

I'm guessing it's why bother paying them at all.
Give me any reason why paying them is better than just shipping them out as other countries do.

Who pays for 'shipping them out'?

'as other countries do'...please supply examples and costs

£37,500 or pay £2,500...is this difficult for you:huh:

Tax payers money presumably?

£37,500 per annum plus £2,500 Golden handshake.

Madness.

Probably because it would involve a lot more expense then £2,500 to have officers arrest them, drive them to the airport and accompany them to their destination. You do the maths, £2,500 seems a bargain.

No payment at all is a better bargain.

You couldnt make it up could you,lags to get cash to leave the country:(

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13546046,00.html

Mind you nothing suprises me with this goverment.;)

How much would it cost to get BNP supporters to leave the country?

I hear Germany and Poland are popular with white power freaks.

Tax payers money presumably?

£37,500 per annum plus £2,500 Golden handshake.

Madness.

and your alternative is....?

and your alternative is....?

You really don't want to know. It'll probably involve severe applications of pain and an absence of common humanity........

Booting them out as 'other countries' do...?

What other countries?

Clearly, those with a much lower cost base re: police/army/border guards/etc find this cost -effective.
Those with similar costs to ourselves are few and appear (eg Germany/France) to boot them cheaply towards the UK.

I see that it's irritating but if your taxes were'nt being spent on this do you really think the government would give you the money back?.....
....or find something else to spend it on that you care for even less?

Why not take a practical and philosophical view of things, or start a new political party more to your taste?

What gets me is this '£37,500 per prisoner per annum' bit.:o

How can it possibly cost that much?:suspect:

You could feed/clothe the con on the £7,500 which by my reckoning leaves £30,000, which is a reasonable years income, to pay a guard.

That is: to pay 1 guard for 1 prisoner.

How can this possibly be the case?

The whole infrastructure of the prison - it's a bit more involved than one guard and cheap meals.

What gets me is this '£37,500 per prisoner per annum' bit.:o

How can it possibly cost that much?:suspect:

You could feed/clothe the con on the £7,500 which by my reckoning leaves £30,000, which is a reasonable years income, to pay a guard.

That is: to pay 1 guard for 1 prisoner.

How can this possibly be the case?

Good question.

Perhaps someone who works in the prison service would be in a better postion to explain.

I don't think it is just the cost of food and clothes but the overall expenditure associated with the costs of running a prison: staffing, medical services, lighting, heating, transport, building maintenance etc...

...as seriessix succinctly explains above:blush:

We need an expert economist here to explain all about 'costs' but one thing has always intrigued me about questions like this :-

In the case of prisons, if the illegal immigrants were kicked out of the prison and sent home, the prison would still be operating, presumably, after they'd gone.The infrastructure ......etc......would still be there for our own home-grown scum.

So, surely, the system would benefit by saving whatever it actually costs to feed, clothe......etc....each individual prisoner, plus--------there would be less overcrowding.

We always get these figures like, ' It costs X thousand pounds a year to do this or that ', but surely this question of infrastructure and the staff levels must be taken into account too. The prisons wouldn't all be shut down just because we got rid of a few undesirables.Also, what about the principle of the thing? Doesn't that come into it?

We need an expert economist here to explain all about 'costs' but one thing has always intrigued me about questions like this :-

In the case of prisons, if the illegal immigrants were kicked out of the prison and sent home, the prison would still be operating, presumably, after they'd gone.The infrastructure ......etc......would still be there for our own home-grown scum.

So, surely, the system would benefit by saving whatever it actually costs to feed, clothe......etc....each individual prisoner, plus--------there would be less overcrowding.

We always get these figures like, ' It costs X thousand pounds a year to do this or that ', but surely this question of infrastructure and the staff levels must be taken into account too. The prisons wouldn't all be shut down just because we got rid of a few undesirables.Also, what about the principle of the thing? Doesn't that come into it?



Of course maybe if the illegal prisoners were not allowed to come here then we might not have to spend a fortune removing them back to where they came from.:thumbsup:
Still soft touch Britain.

Perhaps if prisons were a place of punishment and not a holiday camp we would not get so many wanting to go back in.

why dont we say youve not earned your citizenship, so basically we cant be bothered with human rights as we have better domesticated/behaved monkeys so were gonna use a cheap ole bit o rope and hang you, then halal style food for the poor or sell the carcus for £2500, would be better.
so if i have no money no home and few prospects, it is to my knowledge by attempting to rob i might suceed and get £, if not i get free accomadation for 6 hours, if i do a few and get caught free accomadation for longer + £47, its a nice place we live in, should in not be our duty to become a nation of unruly c****

Perhaps if prisons were a place of punishment and not a holiday camp we would not get so many wanting to go back in.

Perhaps if people had the faintest notion of what being in prison is like we'd not get posts like the above.

why dont we say youve not earned your citizenship, so basically we cant be bothered with human rights as we have better domesticated/behaved monkeys so were gonna use a cheap ole bit o rope and hang you, then halal style food for the poor or sell the carcus for £2500, would be better.
so if i have no money no home and few prospects, it is to my knowledge by attempting to rob i might suceed and get £, if not i get free accomadation for 6 hours, if i do a few and get caught free accomadation for longer + £47, its a nice place we live in, should in not be our duty to become a nation of unruly c****

Nice,succinct,eloquent post.:thumbsup:

How much to drink now.....?;)

smoke not drink mate

makes me sick and it makes a mockery of people that go to work we pay taxes and get F all for it. it's about time decent honest people got some of these handouts if they can throw money away throw it at us

Prisoners' cash plan is condemned (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6035897.stm)

:rolleyes:

i agree with upinwath give them nothing just boot them out

Of course maybe if the illegal prisoners were not allowed to come here then we might not have to spend a fortune removing them back to where they came from.:thumbsup:
Still soft touch Britain.

We do not allow into Britain 'illegal prisoners' to my knowledge....this is disinformation. These are foreign nationals who commit crimes when in short term residence in Britain, this happens in every country in the world by the way, where there is freedom of travel, are you advocating restriction of movement Roy? Slippery slope as they say.

The reverse is also true of British nationals who are in prison abroad. There are no Government statistics (to my knowledge) of British citizens who are imprisoned in foreign jails but the organisation Prisoners Abroad are currently in contact with 998 British subjects serving sentences overseas. Link to this organisation can be found at: http://www.prisonersabroad.org.uk/

'soft touch Britain'...nice to see you knocking Britain as per usual Roy

makes me sick and it makes a mockery of people that go to work we pay taxes and get F all for it. it's about time decent honest people got some of these handouts if they can throw money away throw it at us
Get F all for it? Are you living in a different country?

So you paid the prisoner £2500 to get out,a few months later they will sneck in do lots of crime till they are caught then they get another £, wow who says crime dont pay

So you paid the prisoner £2500 to get out,a few months later they will sneck in do lots of crime till they are caught then they get another £, wow who says crime dont pay


Come on now Bliar did say tough on crime tough on the causes of crime.:hihi:

no i live in england what do we get nhs but that's not run right money is squandered and patients are left wanting police force that's a hit and miss service unless they are working with the council nothing seems to get done to sort out troublemakers on the streets at night. i could go on and on they take our money and just fritter it on wasteful stupid things the cost of i.d cards is a very good example all the billions could be spent on better things. the cost of the war in iraq all the billions up in smoke wheres the money come from not the bleedin councillors or goverments personal pockets i do know

just kick them out simple, give em nothing .

Current costs to house a prisoner in the UK per annum are £37,500 for an adult and 42,500 for a young offender.

£2,500......bargain

They would have to re enter the UK around 15 times for it to be a loss situation

So your point Roy is?
Cost isn't the only issue. Do you also advocate the death penalty because it is a cheaper option than life imprisonment? Or not prosecuting muggers if they steal less than the equivilant cost of taking them through the judicial system? ... hopefully not.

This new governement policy will only make the problem of foreign criminals worse. If you were a Turkish criminal (as an example), would you prefer to commit your crimes in Turkey or in England? Given that there are richer pickings here, and the jails infininaltey more cushy, then I would guess the answer would be here. The fact that 10% of the prison population is made up of foreigners supports the argument that we are becoming the land of opportunity for foreign criminals.

If the UK starts paying criminals cash bonuses for committing crimes then we can only expect more undesirables to be winging their way to us.

How many British citizens who've been nicked abroad and put in prison get 2,500 pounds from whichever government, as long as they promise not to return?

The vast majority have to go to the British Consulates to get their air-fare home and usually have to pay it back when they get home.

Perhaps the U.K. should go completely bonkers and pay just about everybody in the 3rd. World about 5 grand, simply to stay where they are?

Roy, I was under the impression that the party which you represent advocated the voluntary repatriation of 'foreign' people anyway - with funding given to aid them in leaving the country?

Surely this is an example of a policy which your own party would want to introduce, were they ever to attain power?

Cost isn't the only issue. Do you also advocate the death penalty because it is a cheaper option than life imprisonment?

Amazingly, this is not true.

just kick them out simple, give em nothing .


How do we that for less than £2,500 per head?

Perhaps if people had the faintest notion of what being in prison is like we'd not get posts like the above.
We've all seen Porridge.

How much would it cost to get BNP supporters to leave the country?

I hear Germany and Poland are popular with white power freaks.



I would rather get rid of the fanatical muslims, in fact I would make a contribution for that

Perhaps if people had the faintest notion of what being in prison is like we'd not get posts like the above.

from someone who has spent time in prison (4 months) for a driving conviction it was my first time and last i wouldn't want ever to go back

but that said IT IS EASY! each room (they are not called cells anymore) has a tv a small kettle and a toilet and sink as well as a bed and easy chair

from someone who has spent time in prison (4 months) for a driving conviction it was my first time and last i wouldn't want ever to go back

but that said IT IS EASY! each room (they are not called cells anymore) has a tv a small kettle and a toilet and sink as well as a bed and easy chair


And we all thought you got sent to prison to get punished but the facilities in some prisons are better than some people have in their own home and that cannot be right.

And we all thought you got sent to prison to get punished but the facilities in some prisons are better than some people have in their own home and that cannot be right.

i agree with you like i said i never want to go back in there but as a life experience i can say it was easy

if i commited a crime abroad i would be immediatly deported as soon as my prison sentence came to an end why cant we do this in this country if you are a non eu resident if you are sent to prison then you are deported to your country of origin whichever country that is prison may not be a detterant but sure the easy life in britain not being available may be

Who pays for 'shipping them out'?

'as other countries do'...please supply examples and costs

£37,500 or pay £2,500...is this difficult for you:huh:

UK - illegal. Paid to stay and bribed to get lost.
Uk foreign criminal - a little prison time if they can find some space and let go until someone notices.

Malaysia - 6 lashes of the rotan, 6 months in prison and deported with no right to question it.
If they are guilty of any other crime they cop for it big style.
Malaysian prisons don't have colour TVs and pool tables.

Maybe Malaysia is a little harsh but somewhere between may work well.
Air tickets don't cost £2,500 and boat rides even less.

UK - illegal. Paid to stay and bribed to get lost.
Uk foreign criminal - a little prison time if they can find some space and let go until someone notices.

Malaysia - 6 lashes of the rotan, 6 months in prison and deported with no right to question it.
If they are guilty of any other crime they cop for it big style.
Malaysian prisons don't have colour TVs and pool tables.

Maybe Malaysia is a little harsh but somewhere between may work well.
Air tickets don't cost £2,500 and boat rides even less.

I would rather live in a democratic Britain with a strong sense of justice and fair play. If you feel strongly Malaysia is a better option than say Wath, then I bid you a cheerful bon voyage:thumbsup:

I would rather live in a democratic Britain with a strong sense of justice and fair play. If you feel strongly Malaysia is a better option than say Wath, then I bid you a cheerful bon voyage:thumbsup:

Funny you should say that. I'm toying with the idea of living out there and have been looking into it.
Seems I can get on the second home scheme with no problem and semi retire in a year if I decide that's the way to go.

Funny you should say that. I'm toying with the idea of living out there and have been looking into it.
Seems I can get on the second home scheme with no problem and semi retire in a year if I decide that's the way to go.

Good for you mate:thumbsup:

I would rather live in a democratic Britain with a strong sense of justice and fair play. If you feel strongly Malaysia is a better option than say Wath, then I bid you a cheerful bon voyage:thumbsup:
And this is exactly the point. How is justice or fair play served by paying off foreign criminals to leave the country?

I'm still waiting for Roy to explain why he's in direct contravention with one of his own party's repatriation ideas. Roy?

I'm still waiting for Roy to explain why he's in direct contravention with one of his own party's repatriation ideas. Roy?

Well im glad you think the party has the righ idea when it comes to removing illegals.:thumbsup:
Yes the party wants to give them cash to leave,same as the goverment,only I would give them nothing at all.
My personal choice.;)

How exactly do you work out that I think your party has the right idea? Nothing could be further from the truth.

Do you think that the party would be pleased with you, publicly deriding one of their basic tenets?

How exactly do you work out that I think your party has the right idea? Nothing could be further from the truth.

Do you think that the party would be pleased with you, publicly deriding one of their basic tenets?


So you think its ok to leave them here;) I would have thought you as a tax payer would want them to be removed with the least expense to you and everyone else?

You're deliberately avoiding my question.

And this is exactly the point. How is justice or fair play served by paying off foreign criminals to leave the country?

The choice is clear, paying the £37,500 to meet the costs of British imprisonment per annum or trying to secure deals with foreign (as they do with British prisoners) national Govts to take their national subjects into their prison system and meeting the cost of that transfer which ranges from £500 to £2,500. Foreign national Govts are not obliged to take prisoners back because the crimes committed took place in Britain.

As for the calls of 'Boot them out'...will the foreign Govts take the prisoners back? Who pays the admin for the transfer? Who pays the staff to process the admin? Who pays for the transportation of the prisoner/s? Who guards the prisoner and pays for the guard. Who pays for the airline ticket? When you go into detail there are many costs involved.....in the real world;)

As for the 'nationalist' posters in this debate they have no policy on prisons as nationalists in power usually dismantle the prison system and introduce labour/concentration camps....a neat solution or should that be 'final'.

The choice is clear, paying the £37,500 to meet the costs of British imprisonment per annum or trying to secure deals with foreign (as they do with British prisoners) national Govts to take their national subjects into their prison system and meeting the cost of that transfer which ranges from £500 to £2,500. Foreign national Govts are not obliged to take
I don't think this is right. As far as I understand it, the convicted foreign criminal is to be given the choice to avoid time in a British jail if s/he agrees to return to their own country. There is no proposal that they serve thier time in a prison in their own country... how could the country of origin legally detain these people when they haven't been convicted of a crime by their own judiciary? Besides that, why would they pay to adminster a punishment on our behalf?

This proposal is simple. Pay foreign criminals instead of punishing them. That is not justice.

I don't think this is right. As far as I understand it, the convicted foreign criminal is to be given the choice to avoid time in a British jail if s/he agrees to return to their own country. There is no proposal that they serve thier time in a prison in their own country... how could the country of origin legally detain these people when they haven't been convicted of a crime by their own judiciary? Besides that, why would they pay to adminster a punishment on our behalf?

This proposal is simple. Pay foreign criminals instead of punishing them. That is not justice.

The serving out of sentences of prisoners in their native prisons is a reality not a proposal.
The UK has reciprocal agreements with a number of countries in this respect, often referred to as bilateral prisoner transfer agreements. A link here to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office with a menu that deals with prison transfer agreements: http://www.fco.gov.uk/servlet/Front/TextOnly?pagename=OpenMarket/Xcelerate/ShowPage&c=Page&cid=1100184342050&to=true

These agreements also guarantee the rights of British nationals when serving sentences overseas such as access to lawyers, family visits and to some degree quality of care. This in turn is backed up by consular staff who work for the benefit of British citizens abroad

The serving out of sentences of prisoners in their native prisons is a reality not a proposal.
The UK has reciprocal agreements with a number of countries in this respect, often referred to as bilateral prisoner transfer agreements. A link here to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office with a menu that deals with prison transfer agreements: http://www.fco.gov.uk/servlet/Front/TextOnly?pagename=OpenMarket/Xcelerate/ShowPage&c=Page&cid=1100184342050&to=true

True but there has been no mention (that I know of) of these prisoners being transferred as part of the bilateral prisoner transfer agreement. As far as I can tell, the proposal is to pay them their "grant" if they agree to leave the country and release them. That is not justice.

True but there has been no mention (that I know of) of these prisoners being transferred as part of the bilateral prisoner transfer agreement. As far as I can tell, the proposal is to pay them their "grant" if they agree to leave the country and release them. That is not justice.

Yes, no discussion in the tabloids!

Bilateral agreements are being pushed alongside grants.

If people are against grants to cover the costs of transfer, what are the detailed workable alternatives? (Having as yet to achieve 'perfect world' status)