Was in Sheffield Town Hall today looking at the nominations for the May local elections and noticed that the BNP are standing in a few seats in Sheffield. Though I am certainly not a supporter of their ideas I would defend their right to stand as candidates. I dare say the powers that be in Sheffield will be throwing their arms up in horror. They are a bona fide party and as far as I can see have every right to stand for election.

Not long ago the BNP was hauled over the coals in Sheffield for handing out literature to school children. Why is this any different to the Labour Party in my ward sticking 'Vote Labour' stickers on children as they leave school to go home. A typical case of double standards I think.

I will await the results with interest. Any comments?

Hmmmm - difficult one. I am not 100% clear on the complete policies of the BNP - but they are linked with Nazi groups I think - which makes me ill and not like them or the desire to support them either.

However - the death of a BNP candidate is a bit much when all they appeared to have done was speak about their policies. If a person of an ethnic minority were to stand giving policies on White hate then no one would batter an eyelid.

Moon Maiden

Democracy is all about having your own opinions and free speech. If this includes far right policies then fair enough. It's not right that the BNP should be banned no matter how questionable their policies are.

Anyway, if I had my way, I'd silence the Labour party, especially their smug git leader.

It comes as no surprise to me that the BNP has put forward so many candidates for the forthcoming local elections, what with the Asylum Seeker issues etc.. many people in this country have become increasingly annoyed with politically correct and left wing socialist politics which have made this country the soft touch that it is !

I hate the BNP. They will use democracy to get into power but dont respect one man one vote unless the man is white. There is already a party who will bang up asylum seekers for those who want it, the Tories. The BNP take that extra step, and regardless of whatever they say, that is what people believe they are about including anyone who votes for them.

I'm not sure which is worse - horrible Facist BNP, or the bigoted, biased end of the Labour spectrum typified by our Labour Council. Neither are likely to serve normal people well. The whole idea of a Left Right divide is just stupid - BNP, and the brand of Labour we have on our City Council - what's the difference? - their ideas come from the same source (ignore the fundamental rights of individual people, abandon all moral principles, and support your particular favourite groups). The problem is that they don't help those favoured groups either in the long run as these policies are inevitably followed by social and economic decline.

These people all clearly have a right to stand, and if we vote for them we deserve what we get. Racism has to be dealt with in an evenhanded way (as someone else said, if it comes from fanatical Islamic clerics that seems to be acceptable).

Originally posted by "ShefEducation"

bigoted, biased end of the Labour spectrum typified by our Labour Council. .

What have you got to back up what is in effect slander?

Originally posted by "maxt"

bigoted, biased end of the Labour spectrum typified by our Labour Council. .

What have you got to back up what is in effect slander?

A degree of common sense, it would appear. ShefEducation's description of the Sheffield Council is extreme (though not unwarranted) but his comments about the need for a more 'balanced' approach to politics are very sensible. Tackling one extreme brand of politics with another is rediculous and helps no-one.

When I was involved in student politics, I always used to have to stand up and denounce the 'no platform for fascists' policy of local and national Student's Unions.

I tried to explain to them that whilst they were the ones defining who was and who was not a fascist, they were in fact exhibiting totalitarian tendencies.

I say let the BNP stand in sheffield and people like me will go along to their hustings and make them look like the misguided bigots they are.

But they must have the opportunity to speak, otherwise they will capitalize on the 'we are an opressed political party' card, and will get much more credibility than they deserve. Also keeping them out in the open where we can see them, and not as some underground movement is important.

But if they can convince us that they are worthy of election to the council and we vote them in - well that's democracy in action.

To be fair though, they do have some good policies. Now before people slate me for saying this, here's a quote from the website:
Originally posted by "http://www.bnp.org.uk/"

According to Britain’s leading population experts, the native British people will be a minority in this country by about 2060, thanks to hundreds of thousands of immigrants and ‘asylum seekers’ pouring into Britain every year on ships, cars, planes and lorries. We’re already a minority in places like Leicester and inner London - the old politicians are giving our country away!

In many towns and cities, anti-British race attacks and race attacks are now commonplace. ‘Positive discrimination’ means that businesses are forced to employ immigrants before British workers under the guise of “quotas”, and local councils put immigrants and ‘asylum seekers’ to the front of the housing queue. The Government is going ahead with plans to build up to five million new homes on precious Green Belt land to cope with the increase in the UK’s population created mainly by immigration. British history and British culture are now censored because they might ‘offend’ the newcomers, and our children receive endless multicultural brainwashing in schools. Our people have become second class citizens at best! And all this when ethnic minorities account for ‘only’ 9% of the population! What happens as their numbers grow further?

Is this the future you want for your children and grand children? A future where our people are treated as second class citizens? A future where the British people will be in the minority? The British National Party says NO! The British National Party will stop all further immigration and ‘asylum seeking’, and introduce a system of voluntary resettlement whereby immigrants resident in Britain will be encouraged, but not forced, to return to their lands of native origin. The future BNP government will give those who want to go back generous resettlement grants, because we think that reducing the number of non-whites is the only way to restore peace and racial harmony. Those who want to stay are welcome to do so, provided they obey our laws and accept that Britain must stay British.

The British people were never given the chance to vote on whether they wanted Britain to become a ‘multicultural’ society. It was forced on us by the old political parties without any democratic vote. It’s not about being against immigrants as individuals, it’s about securing our people a homeland that we have lived in for thousands of years. A secure homeland is a basic human right, but we will lose ours if we cannot bring ourselves to say ‘no’ to immigration!

This article does make quite a lot of sense. While I'm all for people coming to live in this country to escape the horrors of their own country, I don't think it's right that the British people should be forced to forget their own heritage so as not to 'offend' immigrants. I'm all for a multicultural society, as long as anybody who comes to live in this country accepts what it is to be British, and the history that goes with it.

I think that the BNP will do well in Sheffield and to be honest I am surprised that they are only standing in 2 seats. No I would not vote for them but look at their manifesto and much of what they say makes an awful lot of sense. The traditional Labour vote in Sheffield is desperate for an alternative to vote for as they feel so let down. They won't vote Conservative and in the main view the Lib Dems as a bunch of the other party's cast offs ....... so who else is there?

Sheffield City Council has for too long thrown money at areas of so called deprivation in it's policies of positive discrimation. This has been at the expense of the rest of Sheffield which all though having pockets of wealth has lots of poor areas. This has meant a gradual decline all over the city.

The other problem in Sheffield is that Labour have had total control for so long (other than a blip in the 60's when the tories gained power and the Lib Dems more recently) that they really considered themselves invincible and thought that in the Socialist Republic the electorate couldn't possibly vote for anyone else. I think it's called taking people for granted.

It's time that this Council had a kick up the backside :evil: :evil:

Originally posted by "Mo"

It's time that this Council had a kick up the backside :evil: :evil:

And so say all of us. Lets hope the BNP get hammered as well.

Sick and tired of politicians (Labour, BNP etc) who seem to think that can serve their own special interest groups and stuff the rest of us. The problem with Labour is that many who think that they are Labour's special group are not at all. Not sure the Lib Dems have a coherent policy, but probably the most palatable of the bunch.

Originally posted by "http://www.bnp.org.uk/"

...we think that reducing the number of non-whites is the only way to restore peace and racial harmony.

The BNP's quotes (above in Sidla's post) about wanting to avoid watering down our culture and history are merely ways of making their racism more palatable. I'd like to see our history and culture respected and our primary religions, laws and ways of life considered the basis for living in the UK. The link between this and skin colour is purely coincidental, though. The link with this and where we've come from is purely coincidental too - wouldn't you rather see a law-abiding, hardworking, respectful foreigner in this country helping the country's development or a pure English-blooded football hooligan damaging property and costing the state money? I know these are extreme examples, but they're by no means unheard-of. It is unfortunate that we have problems with the numbers of immigrants we are receiving, but that doesn't warrant trying to remove all non-whites from our country, and that, amongst all the pro-Britain comment in that BNP quote, is precisely what they are aiming to do. If we go down that road we will lose a lot of valuable people. It is possible to be pro-British without being anti-everyone else - after all, if we were anti-everyone else we'd also be anti-us as our bloodline comes from all over the place! And besides, amongst all these non-whites that the BNP want to send back to 'their own country' are included people who have lived here for decades and who we invited here to make up manpower after the second world war. That is not so long ago, and expecting these people to return 'home' just because we no-longer need them is not right.

Considering the BNP actually exist (which I find rather disturbing), I can accept that they're trying to get local seats. I only hope the people of Sheffield see through their propaganda and give them the miserable result they deserve.

Originally posted by "Michael_W"

many people in this country have become increasingly annoyed with politically correct and left wing socialist politics which have made this country the soft touch that it is !

You mean like the current one (ha ha) about banning hotcross buns in some schools because they offend non christians. We must be the laughing stock of the planet.

Originally posted by "Sidla"

To be fair though, they do have some good policies. Now before people slate me for saying this, here's a quote from the website:

<snipped chest thumping political doggerel>

No, they don't I'm afraid.

The BNP trade in perceptions. I mean, who are 'the native british people' for heavens sake? countless immigrants and invaders since the stone age and probably before.

Originally posted by "Sidla"


This article does make quite a lot of sense. While I'm all for people coming to live in this country to escape the horrors of their own country, I don't think it's right that the British people should be forced to forget their own heritage so as not to 'offend' immigrants. I'm all for a multicultural society, as long as anybody who comes to live in this country accepts what it is to be British, and the history that goes with it.

I'm interested. As a non British resident of this fine country, what do you mean by "what it is to be British"? And surely the history of Britain is pretty much saturated with immigration (and emigration).

Originally posted by "Chris"

The BNP's quotes (above in Sidla's post) about wanting to avoid watering down our culture and history are merely ways of making their racism more palatable. I'd like to see our history and culture respected and our primary religions, laws and ways of life considered the basis for living in the UK. The link between this and skin colour is purely coincidental, though. The link with this and where we've come from is purely coincidental too - wouldn't you rather see a law-abiding, hardworking, respectful foreigner in this country helping the country's development or a pure English-blooded football hooligan damaging property and costing the state money? I know these are extreme examples, but they're by no means unheard-of. It is unfortunate that we have problems with the numbers of immigrants we are receiving, but that doesn't warrant trying to remove all non-whites from our country, and that, amongst all the pro-Britain comment in that BNP quote, is precisely what they are aiming to do. If we go down that road we will lose a lot of valuable people. It is possible to be pro-British without being anti-everyone else - after all, if we were anti-everyone else we'd also be anti-us as our bloodline comes from all over the place! And besides, amongst all these non-whites that the BNP want to send back to 'their own country' are included people who have lived here for decades and who we invited here to make up manpower after the second world war. That is not so long ago, and expecting these people to return 'home' just because we no-longer need them is not right.

Considering the BNP actually exist (which I find rather disturbing), I can accept that they're trying to get local seats. I only hope the people of Sheffield see through their propaganda and give them the miserable result they deserve.
Despite what I said before, I agree with this. I suppose part of politics is to make your policies sound like they make a lot of sense when really they have ulterior motives for everything, and people like me fall for it :lol:

However, I don't think it's right that we should stop teaching British history in school, and be told to stop flying the union jack just because it offends people.

I mean, who are 'the native british people' for heavens sake? countless immigrants and invaders since the stone age and probably before.


It is highly unlikely to find a 'pure' briton because of what you state above - however. A body which was uncovered in the Chedder Caves was DNA tested and his decendent was found to be living only four miles from where the body was found.
This body dated back to the last Ice Ace. He was a Native Briton and migrated to this land mass as other 'natives' of other countries did at that time.

Invaders is an interesting term to use. Has been used alot to belittle what the British Isles is actually responsible for i.e a hell of a lot both good and bad.

And surely the history of Britain is pretty much saturated with immigration

Whilst other countries have come to these isles and settled throughout our checkered history - their culture has been absorbed being added to our own not wiping it out. This is in danger of changing by the increasing attitude that that British Isles must be the doormat the the world.

I was not born here. I was born in the Mediterranian - my heritage and family is here.

Examples of Britain having to please 'visitors'. Our traditional festivals - I've mentioned this before - Maypole Dancing - The Queen of The May - abolished in case it may offend a non-resident religion. These traditions have been forced into twilight villages to be practiced basically where you will be unlikely to find anyone of an ethnic or religious minority.

This war will probably see a HUGE increase in certain areas of a non tolerant policy on immigrants. This attitude has been gorwing for some time now since we opened our doors to commonwealth countries decades ago.

Moon Maiden

Originally posted by "Sidla"

I don't think it's right that we should stop teaching British history in school, and be told to stop flying the union jack just because it offends people.

Agreed. It shouldn't be taboo to enjoy British traditions and ignoring our history is almost as bad as the actions of the countries that deliberately go about changing the history recorded in their textbooks. We need to learn British history - good and bad - if we're going to give ourselves and future generations a chance to learn from past mistakes.

It is true that any country's natives are most probably visitors from another part of the world who either decided to stop there in a peaceful capacity or invaded and settled the land.

Britain is full of all sorts from history, saxons, vikings, normans, romans etc. Our 'traditional' pastimes such as maypole dancing, easter, christmas are pretty much derived from pagan festivals and then pegged onto christianity.

I believe in a multi cultural society. We can all live very nicely together and everybody can choose to follow whichever religion they wish so long as it is not against the wellbeing of others and not anti-social.

I do not agree with social immigrants. Social immigrants should apply for a visa to work here and be shown to be able to make a positive contribution to society in general.

Asylum seekers should be allowed temporary residency in the UK. If they are in genuine need of protection then we should allow them semi-permanent residency (residency until the threat in their homeland is gone ie. Iraq). We are a charitable country and do care for others. We are not however a soft touch and therefore change is needed to the present system.

The rise of the BNP is a sad indication that at present the populace is unhappy with certain issues. If they are to be banished back to the hole in the ground that they came from then the main parties need to adapt and adopt certain policies.

We are not an all white country, never have been and never will be and hopefully never want to be. A strong backbone and attitude to asylum and social immigration is noted racsist. Talking about such things and expressing a view against such persons is not rascist.

I am glad that the BNP are making us discuss these issues. If the main parties can adopt a popular, correct attitude that appeals to the majority of the public then the BNP will not get any votes, will lose their deposits and will not have the support to stand again.

:)

Originally posted by "Mo"

many people in this country have become increasingly annoyed with politically correct and left wing socialist politics which have made this country the soft touch that it is !

You mean like the current one (ha ha) about banning hotcross buns in some schools because they offend non christians. We must be the laughing stock of the planet.

I hope all these 'non christians' who are offended by hot cross buns will be present in school on Good Friday and Easter Monday. Ditto to all non christian workers who find our way of life and it's traditions offensive, but take a day off for it!

Best friend I had as a kid was jewish. he loved having Christmas with us and also Easter. Used to buy him xmas pressie and eggs etc. Never saw any problem in it as I am not exactly affiliated myself!

Originally posted by "Sidla"

Democracy is all about having your own opinions and free speech. If this includes far right policies then fair enough. It's not right that the BNP should be banned no matter how questionable their policies are.

Anyway, if I had my way, I'd silence the Labour party, especially their smug git leader.

I agree. The problem that this country is as corrupt as others. We talk about rigged elections and this country is no different. Any far right party is never going to get the same media coverage as the others, so how can this be fair? it can't possibly.

what was that voltaire quote? 'i do not respect what you say, but i will defend to the death your right to say it'

i truly believe in that. freedom of speech cannot be given to some and not others, otherwise freedom of speech becomes censorship.

the bnp have a right to say whatever they want. and so do i. i think the bnp are a ridiculous bunch of self contradicting egomaniacs with little or no education on the facts of what they speak out for. not to say that the bnp aren't educated, many are very intelligent ppl with excellent school achievements. but the majority don't know a single thing about true british history and have accepted on face value what some guy said on the street.

it would be interesting to know from a bnp member what they thought of me being half british and half japanese. am i welcome or no? i have lived here for the majority of my life. and what of my father and my 3 half (fully japanese) siblings? am i to be seperated from them because they are non white? i am also capable of defending much more than another's right to freedom of speech (note: not at all condoning violent action).[/quote]

Originally posted by "sentofuno"

what was that voltaire quote? 'i do not respect what you say, but i will defend to the death your right to say it'

i truly believe in that. freedom of speech cannot be given to some and not others, otherwise freedom of speech becomes censorship.

the bnp have a right to say whatever they want. and so do i. i think the bnp are a ridiculous bunch of self contradicting egomaniacs with little or no education on the facts of what they speak out for. not to say that the bnp aren't educated, many are very intelligent ppl with excellent school achievements. but the majority don't know a single thing about true british history and have accepted on face value what some guy said on the street.

it would be interesting to know from a bnp member what they thought of me being half british and half japanese. am i welcome or no? i have lived here for the majority of my life. and what of my father and my 3 half (fully japanese) siblings? am i to be seperated from them because they are non white? i am also capable of defending much more than another's right to freedom of speech (note: not at all condoning violent action).

Perhaps if you quoted to whom you were replying to this might help?

The BNP and those two bastions of the right wing press (The Sun and The Daily Mail) negate to tell the entire truth about this whole issue. Frankly, such stories about banishing Hot Cross Buns in our schools are nothing but lies. However, they serve to make good banner headlines whilst the retraction usually follows some days later on page 38. The racist undertone that is currently imbuing our society is extremely worrying. If anyone at all believes a word the Nazis at the BNP proffer then they are misguided to say the least.

It is not the fault of the racial minorities that our schools, hospitals, old peoples homes and rail networks are in a state of disrepair. We could enter into an entire arguement on public services, yet non of us have ever voted to kick out the mainly white, upper middle class voters of middle England who have consistantly elected successive low tax administrations to power. We are all complicit in our failure to stand up and demand better public services for all.

In this rampantly commercial age we think nothing of factories shutting down and moving around the globe for economic reasons. Yet people are shunned for wanting to move to get a better life. Yes, they come here for financial reasons. So what? We have to realise that all global events are linked. We cannot ignore what happens in these countries under tyrannical leaders.Nor can we ignore the impact of globalised industries and corporations bestriding the globe dictating economic policy. All of this is linked and voting for the thugs at the BNP will not change it one bit.

Yet, it is far simpler to blame the influx of non whites into our society for all its ills. This is a simply ludicrous argument. The BNP are instrinsically linked with the far right shaven headed gang that many of us would cross the road to avoid. Their policies are untenable and they know it.

I believe most of us know it too. Getting desperate and opting for them is inherantly wrong. Yes they are entitled to a voice, but it should be ignored for what it is.

I say to anyone considering voting BNP. Don't. Read 'Stupid White Men' by Michael Moore. Stop buying the Daily Mail and other hateful rags. Get a more balanced view. Join anti racism marches. Make a difference the right way.

It has also, somewhat bizarrely, been argued on here that this country is corrupt because the far right can never get representation in the press.

Perhaps the contributor would like to give their opinions on where they think The Sun and the Daily Mail lie on the political spectrum. They're hardly the most liberal of reads are they? We have a supposedly left wing administration who promote some of the most right wing policies seen since, well, the last right wing administration which was in power since 1979. You see, when the right has it's full sway we get hoades marching through the streets beating up Paediatricians, we get lager louts smashing up Continental cities for 'En-ger-land', we get The Sun's editor Rebekah Wade (the woman behind the misguided Paedophile campaign) leafleting all houses in the military town of Aldershot proclaiming her support for 'Our Boys & Girls', condemning The Mirror and also making a bid for higher sales and profits from potential widows. We get a quiet form of racism disguised as good old English common sense. Keep them in their place. Don't let them apply for our jobs. When the right has full sway in this country, we are treated to mass unemployment, shoddy public services, fear, hatred....and all because of general ignorance. It's far easier to blame 'a Paki, cos they're all the same, except you mate you're one of us...and that Rio Ferdianand he's a geezer' than it is to study, read the facts, make an informed opinion. No, far better to read The Sun...coz it's a good read, innit? Full o'pictures of nice birds, cor didya see page 3 look at 'er, only 17 an all....

Yesterday it was announced that the British Government had worked with the RUC in Ulster to kill Catholics. I think that's fairly much on the far right, don't you?[quote]

It has also, somewhat bizarrely, been argued on here that this country is corrupt because the far right can never get representation in the press.

Perhaps the contributor would like to give their opinions on where they think The Sun and the Daily Mail lie on the political spectrum. They're hardly the most liberal of reads are they? We have a supposedly left wing administration who promote some of the most right wing policies seen since, well, the last right wing administration which was in power since 1979. You see, when the right has it's full sway we get hoades marching through the streets beating up Paediatricians, we get lager louts smashing up Continental cities for 'En-ger-land', we get The Sun's editor Rebekah Wade (the woman behind the misguided Paedophile campaign) leafleting all houses in the military town of Aldershot proclaiming her support for 'Our Boys & Girls', condemning The Mirror

I was talking about on the political election front. If you are of the opinion that the far right gets the same amount of media coverage in Newspapers as the rest then you are under a big illusion. My main beef is that I am against any one party been censored. Why should one party be allowed to have more of a say than another? that's not what we are supposed to be about.

I absolutely think the far right get a great deal of coverage in the press.

Most of it is critical. So it should be. It should be condemned as the visceral, highly offensive garbage that it is. Even in an anachronistic, conservative country as this many of the BNP's policies are unacceptable.

We should uphold freedom of speech, that is incontrovertible, yet the fact remains that the BNP's ill conceived outbursts of hatred have massive repurcussions. They and their followers incite violence.

It would be a brave newspaper editor that would launch a new daily for the far right.

Jugs'n'thugs. Not even the contemptable Ms.Wade would entertain that idea.

Originally posted by "SheffieldSean"

I absolutely think the far right get a great deal of coverage in the press.

Most of it is critical. So it should be. It should be condemned as the visceral, highly offensive garbage that it is. Even in an anachronistic, conservative country as this many of the BNP's policies are unacceptable.

We should uphold freedom of speech, that is incontrovertible, yet the fact remains that the BNP's ill conceived outbursts of hatred have massive repurcussions. They and their followers incite violence.

It would be a brave newspaper editor that would launch a new daily for the far right.

Jugs'n'thugs. Not even the contemptable Ms.Wade would entertain that idea.

So let me get this stright. You think that in the run up to an election the far right parties get the same or equal amount of publicity in the media and on TV as the other parties? My sole point is that you can't say that there are fair balots in this country when certain parties are receiving much more coverage than others.

The far right parties are a minority, therefore they do not get equal coverage.

I think that is quite straightforward.

Is it fair? Well, no it isn't but there is a damn good reason why they don't get a fair crack of the whip.

An exponential increase of coverage for the BNP would mean a huge negation of responsibility on behalf of the press in this country.

Could you image a political broadcast on behalf of the BNP?

Frankly, the followers of the BNP are at the least ill informed, poorly educated (good government policy, keep 'em thick and they won't ever question) and in the worst case scenario violent, racist thugs. They need little encouragement. An incendary broadcast at Prime Time on the BBC would incite riots. We are neither well educated nor mature enough as a country to deal with the BNP issue.

You argue that this is unfair and we cannot possibly claim to be a true democracy whilst we censor those opinions we find offensive.

Absolutely right, but if you or anyone else for that matter think we live in a true democracy you are wrong. Opinions are ignored and crushed every day to ensure the political consensus. March against the war and you betray our 'brave boys and girls in Iraq' (C) 2003 The Sun. I thought I cared passionately about this country only to find out that, according to The Sun, I am a commie traitor who should move to North Korea. I could have sworn over a million marched in London. We still went to war and endured lies every day of the whole sordid affair.

I recall millions voting this administration into power in 1997 on the promise of better public services. I can't recall anything really changing.

Democracies are flawed, but they are the best model we presently have.

I say it again. The BNP are denied fair media coverage because of who they are and what they stand for.

Interesting thread. I'm black and feel that it is one of the central tenets of democracies to allow all views to be represented. Therefore, I have no problem with the BNP being allowed to stand although I would be *gutted* to see them get in!

However two points: firstly if we accept the BNP's right to representation, we should therefore allow all groups including hardline ethnic minority clerics etc., to be free to express their views also. No, I do not agree with Louis Farrakhan or some of the hardcore muslim clerics, but I do believe in even-handedness. Secondly, Sidla talked about the BNP's "good policies" and displayed his obvious fear of "British culture" being overrun by, foreigners, basically. Culture and especially British culture is not fixed - it is fluid and always morphs from one thing to the other. I expect that the ancient Britons were upset when the Angles and the Saxons decimated their culture. Likewise when those uppity Normans invaded from France and killed the Anglo-Saxon king! In two hundred years, like it or not, British culture will be very different to what it is now. To try to stop this progress is a bit like King Canute trying to stop the waves. And we'll all be a better and happier and stronger people for it.

Agree?

Originally posted by "SheffieldSean"

The far right parties are a minority, therefore they do not get equal coverage.

I think that is quite straightforward.

Is it fair? Well, no it isn't but there is a damn good reason why they don't get a fair crack of the whip.

You argue that this is unfair and we cannot possibly claim to be a true democracy whilst we censor those opinions we find offensive.

Absolutely right, but if you or anyone else for that matter think we live in a true democracy you are wrong. .

I recall millions voting this administration into power in 1997 on the promise of better public services. I can't recall anything really changing.

Democracies are flawed, but they are the best model we presently have.

I say it again. The BNP are denied fair media coverage because of who they are and what they stand for.

Glad we got that straight about the media coverage. Of course this does not equate to a fair balot, which was my sole point. I am not sure classing them ALL as ill informed and poorly educated is correct, that is a bit of a sweeping statement to say the least. I agree about democracy but probably not for the same reasons. The flip side to your marching theory is the Mirror encouraging people to March and nobody actually stopped you from having a voice and marching did they? Incidently what happened to the latest march? down to around 20K wasn't it? what's the reason for this?

I don't really have anything more to add as you have agreed with me on my issue which is equal footing and fairness with media coverage where balots are concerned. With this in mind I don't think the BNP will ever have any chance whatsoever of getting elected and/or growing.

Originally posted by "Lickszz"

I don't really have anything more to add as you have agreed with me on my issue which is equal footing and fairness with media coverage where balots are concerned. With this in mind I don't think the BNP will ever have any chance whatsoever of getting elected and/or growing.

It's still disappointing to see how many people voted for them in our city today, though...

People are voting for them because they are fed up at the number of asylum seekers and other foreigners that are arriving here in there thousands.

People are voting for them because they are fed up of not being able to celebrate being English, while every other nationality that lives in this country can celebrate who they are.

Until the government stop pandering to the minorities and actually listen to the English people then the number of BNP voters is going to increase.

I didnt realise that we couldnt celebrate being English! When did that happen??

Just because The Sun doesnt lead with a front page of Happy St George's day doesnt mean we cant celebrate it!

As for false asylums etc, just develop a fair system and we can all be happy.

No knee jerk reactions, lets have a reasoned response or else we'll end up like they did in the 1930's in that other european country whose name escapes me!!

Originally posted by "JonHarrison"

I didnt realise that we couldnt celebrate being English! When did that happen??

Just because The Sun doesnt lead with a front page of Happy St George's day doesnt mean we cant celebrate it!

As for false asylums etc, just develop a fair system and we can all be happy.

No knee jerk reactions, lets have a reasoned response or else we'll end up like they did in the 1930's in that other european country whose name escapes me!!

How the hell are you supposed to celebrate it when you are at work?

Not sure what The Sun has to do with anything, I don't read that toilet paper.

I mean celebrate as in flying the flag everywhere, have St George's day off work etc..basically being patriotic. It seems to me that English people are supposed to feel ashamed of who they are, they aren't supposed to show any form of patriotism for fear of upsetting MINORITIES!!

I really am not suprised at how well the BNP have done, I think they will get a lot stronger in the future. I know quite a few people who voted for them this time around and also people who wanted them to stand in their area so they could vote for them.

I think the government and the other mainstream parties have to realise that you can only sweep things under the carpet and expect people to ignore situations for a short period before people say ok enough is enough now and I think by voting for the BNP people are saying that they have had enough.

anyone heard the story about the Muslim who is representing the BNP in Sunderland?

joke surely???

He/she must be extremely stupid. Obviously from the point of the BNP it's great for them but as soon as he/she has served the purpose of getting the BNP a seat they will be gotten rid of.

What an idiot.

Originally posted by "steelblade"

joke surely???

He/she must be extremely stupid. Obviously from the point of the BNP it's great for them but as soon as he/she has served the purpose of getting the BNP a seat they will be gotten rid of.

What an idiot.

Not unless The Telegraph are making jokes these days.

Come on SteelBlade what are you talking about? The streets of London (that most ethnically mixed of cities) were deserted in June when England were playing their world cup games. All the taxi's & so on were displaying George cross flags. And may I say that this didn't upset minorities at all - many of them (including myself) were in the pubs watching the blooming games!

And how about the hundreds of thousands of people who congregrated on The Mall last summer for a certain monarch's jubilee? That had nothing to do with the feast of Ramadam did it? There was a street party on the road that I lived in London, which was a laugh. No balanced minority group has a serious problem with English or British patriosm. Xenophobia, however is quite a different matter. Are you sure you understand the difference?

interesting that someone was surprised by how many voted for the BNP. Had they had representatives in all wards then the 'real' figure would have been frightening. They expect to take Burnley (ie have a majority within the next 4 years, now thats scary) and once one town goes that way, others will follow. Its a sad day for democracy when a party so obviously dangerous to society is allowed to florish.

It's still disappointing to see how many people voted for them in our city today, though...

I think this is just the start of it all. I expect this number to rise unless something is done about asylum. Upset the natives at your own peril. People are not happy.

Wierd... no one replies to my posts here... is it cos i is black? :lol: O.K. Let's try this one; Lickszz, or anyone.. can someone tell me what's so bad about the asylum seekers at the moment? *Not* what the Daily Mail and other papers say is so bad, but how it affects our (your) everyday lives? Sheffield seems incredibly white compared to parts of the South. (Hang around the centre of London, say Oxford Street after about 2am and you'll see what I mean). Yet it appears that up here you guys have more of a problem with foreigners than white southerners. Why's that? Maybe I'm missing something. I'm not trying to give u guys a hard time - I just want to know why.

Sorry E-man Groovin if you feel you're being ignored. What you have to bear in mind is that folks round here have a problem with anybody not from Sheffield. Don't start them on the subject of incomers from Rotherham or Barnsley or, god forbid, Leeds.

Thanks for that Maxt! As a "bleeding southerner" I get no respect do I? Lordy, it's a minefield around here. However, I've found most of the Sheffielders that I've met to be very friendly, straightforward and open, which I find refreshing after the "up their own arse" attitude of many southerners. But you seem to be insinuating that some up here have yet to realise that the jet engine has made intercontinental travel a doddle, or even that the locomotive and internal combustion engine have made movement between different towns & counties commonplace. Perhaps, then we can solve these problems by banning forms of transport which have a speed of more than 20 mph. That'll prevent all these nasty outsiders from coming into our towns. Oh no, help... I'm getting all sardonic... time for my medicine. :P

ve got to be kept out of power as they are dangerous.

Originally posted by "maxt"

What you have to bear in mind is that folks round here have a problem with anybody not from Sheffield. Don't start them on the subject of incomers from Rotherham or Barnsley or, god forbid, Leeds.

That's an unfortunate generalisation to post here, maxt! Of course the city isn't against people who aren't from Sheffield. We positively welcome 'outsiders' - why do you think there's such a thriving student population? Are you not from Sheffield? Have the locals made you feel you're not welcome here? If so, I'm ashamed to be counted among them and I'd advise you give the city a bit more of a chance as, like E-Man Groovin quite rightly pointed out, most Sheffielders are very friendly and open. If you are from Sheffield and you're against people haven't grown up here living in the city, then you're definitely in the minority.

Originally posted by "E-Man Groovin"

Wierd... no one replies to my posts here... is it cos i is black?

...

Thanks for that Maxt! As a "bleeding southerner" I get no respect do I? Lordy, it's a minefield around here.

Your first post was in the spirit of the thread and I respected the opinion you put across in it - apologies that it didn't get replied to, but then a lot of posts also get 'lost'. People won't mind you perservering with what you want to say, but we will mind you accusing us of being racist when we've not replied.

Sorry if you missed the humour Chris. I love Sheffield and Sheffield people. I've only been here 30 years and in that time Sheffield has put me through college, fed me, housed me and embraced me as a friend, I hope. I've lived all over the world and chose to settle in Sheffield.

I apologise to the people of Sheffield if I've offended anybody. I would recommend this city to anyone who cared to listen to me drone on about it. I, well, 'nuff said. Sorry again Chris.

The British National Party must be loving all the free publicity you lot are giving them(damn i did it now)

Originally posted by "E-Man Groovin"

Wierd... no one replies to my posts here... is it cos i is black? :lol: O.K. Let's try this one; Lickszz, or anyone.. can someone tell me what's so bad about the asylum seekers at the moment? *Not* what the Daily Mail and other papers say is so bad, but how it affects our (your) everyday lives? Sheffield seems incredibly white compared to parts of the South. (Hang around the centre of London, say Oxford Street after about 2am and you'll see what I mean). Yet it appears that up here you guys have more of a problem with foreigners than white southerners. Why's that? Maybe I'm missing something. I'm not trying to give u guys a hard time - I just want to know why.

Hi, sorry E-Man Groovin, I wasn't aware that you was specifically posting to me until you just mentioned my name, hence no reply. Not becasue you are black I assure you. :?

What's so bad about Asylum Seekers? Well, I would have thought that was obvious, the whole issue of Asylum is completely out of control. Do you not agree that it is out of control? last year was a record high 110,000 and these are just the ones we know about. Imagine how many are claiming housing benefit etc? Is this Island big enough to keep absorbing these people? can we afford it? You mention London, I truely believe that people don't realise how bad it is in parts of inner city London, there is every race you could ever think of and ones that you have never heard of. It's racial discimination in reverse where whites are discriminated against by locals/civil servents/town hall - I am just glad I don't live there. It cannot remain the status quo in the UK any longer. The trouble with voting for any party like the BNP/NF is that they are a one issue party, however if you want to influence mainstream partys then 30% of people voting for these would wake them up. Crime is soaring with these ethnic refugees associated with gangs/yardies etc. I dont beleive it is poverty, because there are no what i consider to be poor people as such here, it is just the general disregard for others/crime/no community/no respect/and the total bias of local officials towards the ethnic minorities.

Consider this example:

How fair is it that a 70 year old widow has to pay poll tax/water rates/rent/ because her husband saved £10,000 and got a company pension, say as a bus driver and then a family of somalian refugees get given her house when she dies and are given £200 a week in benefits/free rent/free poll tax/free healthcare/tax exempt/
if they then want to buy the house, where they get the money from is a mystery since they are on benefits, they make a £150,000 profit.

That to me is why people are up in arms.
Ff your white and not a child mom, you are basically on your own and have to use your own iniative to work your way.

What you've got to understand is that I have nothing against genuine Asylum seekers, it's the bogus and illegal ones that I do have a problem with. I don't even blame these, it's the Government who I hold responsible because of their failure to act accordingly on these issues.

Religious conflict and tribal wars always have been and always will be a way of life in most Asian and African countries. Consequently, any of the millions of people living in those lands could argue that they are in fear of their lives and have a legitimate claim to asylum. More and more of them are now taking advantage of this to escape from the poverty and unrest of their homelands, their increased determination to emigrate to Britain strengthened by the tales of easy entry and subsidised living sent back by those already here. Obviously Third World populations are rapidly rising, the tide of immigrants is set to increase year upon year as more and more of these unfortunate people attempt to flee to the West claiming to be refugees. The result of this will be that those areas of Britain already occupied by Asian and African communities will be forced to expand their borders to accommodate the ever increasing influx of new arrivals. This is bound to lead to conflict with the local population they will be dislodging. Undoubtedly, the racial disturbances we have seen in the Northern towns and innercity areas are just a anticipation of what may be yet to come. I have so far only mainly mentioned Asian and African asylum seekers as according to Home Office figures these make up three quarters of the total seeking asylum in the UK. Taking asylum seekers/illegal immigrants as a whole, even when dispersed they place an enormous additional load on local schools, G.P. surgeries, hospitals, social services and housing to the detriment of our own people. Britain has always been a tolerant nation and has accepted these unfortunates in the past, but as the realisation has dawned that they will continue to pour in with ever increasing numbers and with no end in sight, the feeling has changed and people have now turned against them, a situation not helped by the failure of our Politicians to recognize that the present asylum/immigration crisis is the greatest threat this country has ever faced.

The abuse of the asylum system has been allowed to go on for too long and has become such a threat to our way of life, traditions, culture and to the social structures our ancestors built up over the centuries. In the long term we are resigned to surrendering our homeland to these illigitimate asylum seekers with their tenacious religions, exotic cultures and no love of us.

I dont have any problem with people coming to live in this country, black or otherwise. The trouble is, those who come here to scrounge, then preach hatred against us. Any one decent and prepared to work is welcome, white, black, yellow, pink or blue I dont care providing they are good people.

As regards the Yardies, drug dealers, criminals of any description, throw them out on their ear even if they are white. There is too much pussyfooting around with these thugs, too many human rights do- gooders, what about our human rights Eh.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!s

Everyone... my "is it because i is black" was a JOKE!! It is a well-known catchphrase of the comedian Ali G. I wasn't insinuating for one moment that the group was racist, it's like if I said "top bombing" and you guys thought I was seriously into the sport of curling myself into a ball & jumping into swimming pools! Anyways it had the desired effect and people replied!

Anyways, back to the subject at hand. Thanks, Lickszz for your comprehensive reply. First up I should say that I am a HUGE fan of U.K. society, there are so many things that make it great; from the public service broadcasting to the music to the love of beer. In many ways I am sympathetic to many of things that Lickszz says. I have sometimes walked around the streets of London late at night and not seen many traces of traditional U.K. society, and thought that while I can deal with this as a black person myself, white U.K. people may start getting annoyed soon. So fair enough. However, the BNP I suspect isn't about "lets find a fair and sensible solution to immigration and asylum that can satisfy both the indeginous population as well as genuine immigrants" rather it appears that many of its policies are based on Xenephobia. That's why they are scary. We are in the twenty-first century where globalisation and the softening of nation boundaries are a reality. The BNP seems to seek to deny this. They seem to want to go back to a Britain of the 1940s (and lose all the variety, cultural expansion and experimentation that has happened since then), and close the doors to all foreign influences. As one of them said last week "I don't have a problem with other cultures, it's just that I want to go abroad to see them". Well sir, the technology that makes it easy for you to go abroad to see them, makes it just as easy for them to come here to see you. Globalisation is here.

Also Lickszz you disappoint me by trotting out some fables which aren't true. You talk about about asylum seekers and yardies as if they are one and the same. Yardies are Jamacian criminals. Jamacia is a settled democracy, and very few asylum seekers come from Jamacia. Yardies are generally illegal immigrants or those who have come over on "holiday". So don't confuse them with asylum seekers.

You also equate rising crime with asylum seekers in general - I thought the main factor associated with UK crime was drugs (specifically heroin & cocaine use) and not asylum seekers.

However I do understand the basis of your obvious fear of Britain taking in too many immigrants, although I think that the fear is sometimes exaggerated and slightly whipped up by media organisations trying to sell newspapers. However, we have people in the goverment who are smart enough to figure out a fair and sensible solution to the problem of *immigration* (do you think that Tony Blair or Ian Duncan Smith don't care about Britain? They have no other home country do they??!). Why not get involved in local politics and help find a real solution to this problem as opposed to voting for the BNP who are people who could *really* destroy this very cool country. [End of essay!]

Originally posted by "E-Man Groovin"


Anyways, back to the subject at hand. Thanks, Lickszz for your comprehensive reply. First up I should say that I am a HUGE fan of U.K. society, there are so many things that make it great; from the public service broadcasting to the music to the love of beer. In many ways I am sympathetic to many of things that Lickszz says. I have sometimes walked around the streets of London late at night and not seen many traces of traditional U.K. society, and thought that while I can deal with this as a black person myself, white U.K. people may start getting annoyed soon. So fair enough. However, the BNP I suspect isn't about "lets find a fair and sensible solution to immigration and asylum that can satisfy both the indeginous population as well as genuine immigrants" rather it appears that many of its policies are based on Xenephobia. That's why they are scary. We are in the twenty-first century where globalisation and the softening of nation boundaries are a reality. The BNP seems to seek to deny this. They seem to want to go back to a Britain of the 1940s (and lose all the variety, cultural expansion and experimentation that has happened since then), and close the doors to all foreign influences. As one of them said last week "I don't have a problem with other cultures, it's just that I want to go abroad to see them". Well sir, the technology that makes it easy for you to go abroad to see them, makes it just as easy for them to come here to see you. Globalisation is here.

Also Lickszz you disappoint me by trotting out some fables which aren't true. You talk about about asylum seekers and yardies as if they are one and the same. Yardies are Jamacian criminals. Jamacia is a settled democracy, and very few asylum seekers come from Jamacia. Yardies are generally illegal immigrants or those who have come over on "holiday". So don't confuse them with asylum seekers.

You also equate rising crime with asylum seekers in general - I thought the main factor associated with UK crime was drugs (specifically heroin & cocaine use) and not asylum seekers.

]

E-Man Groovin. thanks for the reply, I don't have time to reply at the moment but I shall try to address your points later this evening/morning.

ps - I wouldn't know any of Ali G's catchphrases, I have never watched an entire program of his.

Originally posted by "maxt"

Sorry if you missed the humour Chris. I love Sheffield and Sheffield people. I've only been here 30 years and in that time Sheffield has put me through college, fed me, housed me and embraced me as a friend, I hope. I've lived all over the world and chose to settle in Sheffield.

I apologise to the people of Sheffield if I've offended anybody. I would recommend this city to anyone who cared to listen to me drone on about it. I, well, 'nuff said. Sorry again Chris.

Thanks - don't worry about it :) My apologies for coming down a bit heavy on you - it's too easy at times to misinterpret posts...

Originally posted by "E-Man Groovin"


Anyways, back to the subject at hand. Thanks, Lickszz for your comprehensive reply. First up I should say that I am a HUGE fan of U.K. society, there are so many things that make it great; from the public service broadcasting to the music to the love of beer. In many ways I am sympathetic to many of things that Lickszz says. I have sometimes walked around the streets of London late at night and not seen many traces of traditional U.K. society, and thought that while I can deal with this as a black person myself, white U.K. people may start getting annoyed soon. So fair enough. However, the BNP I suspect isn't about "lets find a fair and sensible solution to immigration and asylum that can satisfy both the indeginous population as well as genuine immigrants" rather it appears that many of its policies are based on Xenephobia. That's why they are scary. We are in the twenty-first century where globalisation and the softening of nation boundaries are a reality. The BNP seems to seek to deny this. They seem to want to go back to a Britain of the 1940s (and lose all the variety, cultural expansion and experimentation that has happened since then), and close the doors to all foreign influences. As one of them said last week "I don't have a problem with other cultures, it's just that I want to go abroad to see them". Well sir, the technology that makes it easy for you to go abroad to see them, makes it just as easy for them to come here to see you. Globalisation is here.

Also Lickszz you disappoint me by trotting out some fables which aren't true. You talk about about asylum seekers and yardies as if they are one and the same. Yardies are Jamacian criminals. Jamacia is a settled democracy, and very few asylum seekers come from Jamacia. Yardies are generally illegal immigrants or those who have come over on "holiday". So don't confuse them with asylum seekers.

You also equate rising crime with asylum seekers in general - I thought the main factor associated with UK crime was drugs (specifically heroin & cocaine use) and not asylum seekers.

However I do understand the basis of your obvious fear of Britain taking in too many immigrants, although I think that the fear is sometimes exaggerated and slightly whipped up by media organisations trying to sell newspapers. However, we have people in the goverment who are smart enough to figure out a fair and sensible solution to the problem of *immigration* (do you think that Tony Blair or Ian Duncan Smith don't care about Britain? They have no other home country do they??!). Why not get involved in local politics and help find a real solution to this problem as opposed to voting for the BNP who are people who could *really* destroy this very cool country. [End of essay!]

Do I think that Tony Blair cares about this country? Well, I believe that all politicians are guilty of putting their career ahead of what is best for the country. Blair has promised time and time again to re-examine Britains obligations to International conventions on Asylum - Has he done this? Blairs empty promises and Blunkets pathetic tinkering and tough talking but no acting with Asylum regulations. One of the reasons the Asylum system is in a mess today is because of "Administration Chaos" with the processing of Asylum applications taking far too long. The BNP are the only party to acknowledge the desperate seriousness of the situation. As I said the trouble with BNP etc is that there basically a one party issue, which is no good to me. They are obviously not going to make the country prosper in other areas that are of interest to me and basically when I examine them I don't like what I see. However, I can understand why frustrated people will vote for them and I think their numbers are only going to increase from hereafter.

Are you suggesting I run for election myself? Will you sponsor me the £5000 to stand? :)

I am not sure that I agree with how local councils work, I am not sure that I agree with having to represent a party and think it may be better just standing for an individual constituant. However, my political interest is predominantly on a national scale where I am also not convinced about Electoral Dictatorship.

Why do you think the Asylum situation is exaggerated? Have you not seen the pictures on BBC News showing the illegal immigrants sneeking into this country, record applicants? your not saying the BBC News are distorting the truth are you? I don't equate rising crime with Asylum Seekers, I equate rising ethnic crime with Bogus Asylum Seekers and Illegal Immigrants (inc. Yardies). You have to understand my points were not against legitimate Asylum Seekers, but Bogus Asylum Seekers and Illegal Immigrants. What does having Democracy have to do with anything? Iran has a Democracy but we still get thousands of Asylum applications and Illegal Imigrants from there. When the UN Refugees Convention was originally drawn up in 1951 to prevent horrors suffered by Jews from ever happening again. Do you think that anyone could have imagined then that this humanitarian scheme could be hi-jacked as a means of mass economic migration?

As for Multriculturalism - Do you think this works in practice? Did the people of Britian have a choice in this matter?

Multiculturism does work. Have you tried it? If you went into any area and genuinely tried to make friends with nice people there, you'll be well rewarded. Of course, there are arseholes in every community - and those are best avoided (but I'm sure I don't need to tell you that). I've had friends/girlfriends from all sorts of communities. England, Carribean, Indian, Pakistan, Greece, Iran, France, Australia, South Africa, Zimbabwe (white), Poland, German, Canadian. etc. Our similarties are greater than our differences - why can't people see that? However I will say that other cultures should respect the host culture.

As for choice in the matter.. we never can completely control the direction in which our society goes, best thing to do is just to stay open minded & flexible.

The pictures of people trying to sneak into Britain are of course factual, but does that mean there is a problem? Do those pictures demonstrate that British society in danger of being overwhelmed by immigrants? No. They simply inflame your pre-concieved ideas I suspect. Do those pictures showing the five accused of killing Stephen Lawrence suggesting that they'd like to kill "niggers" tell me that every white person wants to do horrible things to black people? Again, no. Lickszz, try to deal with fact and not image-generated emotion.

Or in other words, get out more! ;-)

Come on. I admitted that there may be a problem with the immigration policy in the UK. Surely you can be noble enough to understand that people of other cultures aren't as scary/horrible as you think, and that they can be a really good addition to U.K. society.

Originally posted by "Mo"

Was in Sheffield Town Hall today looking at the nominations for the May local elections and noticed that the BNP are standing in a few seats in Sheffield. Though I am certainly not a supporter of their ideas I would defend their right to stand as candidates. I dare say the powers that be in Sheffield will be throwing their arms up in horror. They are a bona fide party and as far as I can see have every right to stand for election.

Not long ago the BNP was hauled over the coals in Sheffield for handing out literature to school children. Why is this any different to the Labour Party in my ward sticking 'Vote Labour' stickers on children as they leave school to go home. A typical case of double standards I think.

I will await the results with interest. Any comments?

A very good point there MO!
By the way this is officially my first post on this forum... only just registered :lol:

Originally posted by "DaBouncer"

Was in Sheffield Town Hall today looking at the nominations for the May local elections and noticed that the BNP are standing in a few seats in Sheffield. Though I am certainly not a supporter of their ideas I would defend their right to stand as candidates. I dare say the powers that be in Sheffield will be throwing their arms up in horror. They are a bona fide party and as far as I can see have every right to stand for election.

Not long ago the BNP was hauled over the coals in Sheffield for handing out literature to school children. Why is this any different to the Labour Party in my ward sticking 'Vote Labour' stickers on children as they leave school to go home. A typical case of double standards I think.

I will await the results with interest. Any comments?

A very good point there MO!
By the way this is officially my first post on this forum... only just registered :lol:

Welcome and happy posting :lol:

Originally posted by "E-Man Groovin"

Multiculturism does work. Have you tried it?
The pictures of people trying to sneak into Britain are of course factual, but does that mean there is a problem? Do those pictures demonstrate that British society in danger of being overwhelmed by immigrants? No. They simply inflame your pre-concieved ideas I suspect. Do those pictures showing the five accused of killing Stephen Lawrence suggesting that they'd like to kill "niggers" tell me that every white person wants to do horrible things to black people? Again, no. Lickszz, try to deal with fact and not image-generated emotion.

Come on. I admitted that there may be a problem with the immigration policy in the UK. Surely you can be noble enough to understand that people of other cultures aren't as scary/horrible as you think, and that they can be a really good addition to U.K. society.

Hi E - Man Groovin,

Come on E-man, I know how bad London alone is for been overwhelmed with refugees and you said you did too. Everytime there is a War, it creates refugees. London has been flooded with refugees from Americas last 5 Wars. Does the situation in inner city London look like it's blown out of proportion to you? Are the riots in Northern towns classed as image generated emotions then?

I am not sure that alot of people in this country think that Multiculturalism works. The problem is that its being forced upon the people here. No one voted for it in the first place. Fifty years back Europe was completely white and christian, nowadays its a Babylon of peoples, languages and religions. And no one said "yes" to it. The reason racism could be on the rise is because thats the normal defensive mechanism a person develops when he/she sees that their homecountries are being flooded with people who have a different religion, facial features and totally different outlook on things and they additionally outbreed the home population threefold. They change that country into something different before our very eyes.

The Govt has got the obligation to defend the interest of the homepopulation or else things will turn ugly one day.

Consider this example:

how many of the UK pensioners are anti Asylum seekers.
There are 11 million OAP in the uk.
Bearing in mind OAPs make up the largest % of those who actually vote.
In my experience most of the OAPs i have talked to who expressed a view are anti economic migrants to the UK. And they are economic migrants because most travel through at least 10 countries to get to the UK, where if there were politcial Asylum seekers they would apply for Asylum as soon as they got out of there country.
Its an old arguement, but IMO there is a lot of truth to it.

If you yourself went to apply for citizenship to America or Australia it is not that easy unless you have a ready made job to walk into.

Although most of these pensioners hold strong views on the issue they stay loyal to blue or red and I could not see anyone of standing getting them to change from this trait. Also no main political figure would lead them, as it is political suicide, although they all remember the rivers of blood speech if you ask them.

Most of their anti immigration views are generalised and when the subject arises it is "we fought in the war for this country and now look at it". Obviously I don't have any solutions myself and it has got me beat and if I was living in the likes of inner city London I would be moving out to new pastures.

Multiculturalism is fine and dandy in theory, but falls down badly in practice.

Now, everything hinges on what 'Multiculturalism' actually entails. Imagine somewhere like New York model for instance where you have a melting pot of people who can all experience each others cultures, great. You can eat a massive range of different foods, read different literature, witness diferrent lifestyles etc. But if you mean the type of Multiculturalism where Christmas is renamed as "The Winter Festival', where the sensitivities of minority members are exaggerated to the point where they seem greater than those of a spoilt 10-year old, where nothing is too much for their comfort...well, that's going too far. Muliculturalism seems to work better in the USA than in Europe for some reason.

But, like it or not, we're all in this together. We can only make the best job of getting along that we can. Can't we?[/quote]

I have a theory. Perhaps the reason so many people seek sanctuary in Britain, America, Australia and Canada is that English is taught in most parts of the world as a second language. If I were running away from an oppressive regime, or even an un-economic country, my preference would be to flee to a country where I could speak the language.

If we could persuade the rest of the world that, say, French is a far superior language and they should teach that instead of English this would eventually stem the flow.

IMHO we should still house immigrants and get them working, hence paying taxes, as soon as possible. There is evidence that with the current decline in births in this country we will soon run out of people who are of an age to earn and thus support our ageing population.

For all those people who are scared to go out at night for whatever reason: Stop reading the Daily Mail.

If a person of an ethnic minority were to stand giving policies on White
hate then no one would batter an eyelid.


I disagree very stongly with your comment here. Comments like this fuel the fire of the BNP. There would be plenty of people including ethnic minorites who would not support a person who "were to stand giving policies on white hate" .....so misguided love

Originally posted by "MISS SIXTY"

I disagree very stongly with your comment here. Comments like this fuel the fire of the BNP. There would be plenty of people including ethnic minorites who would not support a person who "were to stand giving policies on white hate" .....so misguided love

I'm not so sure! I do feel that it would gain attention, but you must admit in comparison, it wouldn't be as much as if a 'White Power' organisatioon like C18 were to start campaigning back hatred! the reason for this I feel is that black and ethnic groups have been persecuted for a lot of years, the white community feels (in the back of their minds) that this should be partially over looked! Something called positive discrimination.

It needs to be addressed as Racial hatred from either side is wrong IMHO, but I do feel that it is more tollerated when it stems towards the white community at the moment!

I don't think it's right that the British people should be forced to forget their own heritage so as not to 'offend' immigrants. I'm all for a multicultural society, as long as anybody who comes to live in this country accepts what it is to be British, and the history that goes with it.


what do you class as Britishness? it is evolving

No immigrant is getting rid of your culture

if the BNP ever got into power you can all kiss goodbye to diversity, the most popular dishes in the country (Indian and Chinese) and you'll be sat there eating your yorkshire puddings moaning about the Irish, Scottish or Welsh ....there is always a scapegoat and race to criticise...doesn't make a difference whether your an ethnic minority...its human nature to criticise and be-little others love

Just read through this entire thread and had a good giggle to myself. Some of my personal highlights have come from Licksz...

"No one voted for multiculturalism..."

"Fifty years ago we were white and Christian, now we are a babylon of different languages"

"Multiculturalism is a good idea, but in practice..."

"We're threatened with overcrowding by immigrants... Can we afford it?"

Sorry to paraphrase on a couple of occasions, but I still can't work out the quote function.

Licksz, your closet racism is highly amusing. Please keep posting.

Waxy Chuff wrote :
Licksz, your closet racism is highly amusing. Please keep posting.

'closet racism' thats a bit unfair Waxy, if thats the case the majority of us are closet racists, that's the problem these days if you have an opinion that does not conform to political correctness your branded an 'ist' as MISS SIXTY stated earlier it is human nature to criticise and belittle others, that is very true you instinctively have a bias towards your own starting with your family and so on.....

- Maypole Dancing - The Queen of The May - abolished in case it may offend a non-resident religion. These traditions have been forced into twilight villages to be practiced basically where you will be unlikely to find anyone of an ethnic or religious minority.


..if it bothers you that much why don't you start a campaign to bring maypole dancing back to the city and see how the locals ridicule you dancing around a maypole in Shef city centre.....

Immigrants and ethnic minorities are not to blame for political correctness or abolition of anything, they probably wouldn't bat an eyelid over a tradition like this....blame the people who create these daft policies......

HERE HERE.......you've articulated my views BRILLIANTLY! SheffieldSean

ever thought of running for MP?

Originally posted by "MISS SIXTY"

HERE HERE.......you've articulated my views BRILLIANTLY! SheffieldSean

ever thought of running for MP?

Ever though of making quotes rather than making us go back over the thread to read what you are replying to? :P

I'm not a racist but... What does that immediately tell you about what's going to be said?

Have you ever noticed that it's only non-white immigrants with whom people have a problem? What about the Aussies, Canadians, Kiwis, etc.? They're far more likely to take our jobs, woman, houses and everything else(and they're welcome to them as are all immigrants, my ancestors landed here in 1066 and I'm sure the locals were a bit p****d off about that, too). Look at Murdoch. If we could send him back to Oz then I'm sure more people would support forcible re-patriation.

It just amuses me when people talk about the "death" of "British culture" and "our way of life"!! Wake up and smell the coffee, and perhaps understand that the world we live in ISN'T a stagnant place. We're undergoing more cultural change than ever before, and it ain't to do with immigrants. The internet, television, films et al all contribute to a homogenised global culture of pap - but I don't hear you telling Hollywood to **** off back home, and stop ruining our British traditions.

OK, perhaps I was a little hasty in accusing Licksz of racism, but by the same token you can't simply accuse me of being an adherent of political correctness when I argue the case for asylum seekers. Michael_w is right, you do prioritise for those closest to you, but I take humbrage at the notion that we "look after our own", implying that Kurds or Afghans or Romany have less right to our support than those who were born in this country.

The fact of the matter is that the asylum situation is NOT untenable, despite what the Daily Mail says. There is more than enough housing available (especially here in the north), we have more than enough money to support the drain on our social security system (the economy is buoyant, inflation is low etc), and we have a moral obligation to help those WHO ARE GENUINELY IN NEED (note the caps, just to make sure you guys don't miss that salient point).

But perhaps we have another moral obligation to fulfil - the British Empire spread over three quarters of the globe, murdering and pillaging as it went. We have more than enough of the world's blood on our hands - perhaps we should now make reparations?

Originally posted by "waxy chuff"



But perhaps we have another moral obligation to fulfil - the British Empire spread over three quarters of the globe, murdering and pillaging as it went. We have more than enough of the world's blood on our hands - perhaps we should now make reparations?

Why should we pay for the wrongs of ancestors? Was it the modern generation that invaded these countries? NO! It's was a time of Monarchic rule and no democratic society to speak of.

On the other hand too, why are these 'Asylum Seekers' coming to the UK? If they are genuinly seeking asylum, they should take refuge in the first country that will take them, or they get to! Then why are they migrating from the safety of Germany, France, Italy etc and coming to our shores? Benefit System!!! I may be the only person with enough balls to say it, but it's true!

Our tiny Island houses 60milliopn people... don't kid yourself, we dont have the room! Until we sort out the problems of our own shores (i.e. homeless, poverty, drugs, child prostetution) close the [censored] book!!!

>But perhaps we have another moral obligation to fulfil - the British Empire spread over three quarters of the globe, murdering and pillaging as it went. We have more than enough of the world's blood on our hands - perhaps we should now make reparations?<

Sorry, I don't want to be rude but I have to say b0ll0x to the above.

Are you trying to tell me that because of our ancestors we should feel so guilty that we throw open our doors and dss to all and sundry?

I don't feel guilty and I don't see why anyone else should. I'm extremely proud of my heritage and of my ancestors.

The number of asylum seekers coming here is out of control, and no I don't read the daily mail!

You should come down London Road one afternoon, see what these asylum seekers are really like. They are so skint that they can afford to booze all day, smoke and have mobiles. Hard life eh? I'm so glad I work all the hours god sends, to pay for these people and others like them.

Try walking through page hall, pitsmoor, fir vale, darnall etc..it's as though your in a different bl00dy country. It's utterly ridiculous.

I've noticed a huge increase in the number of immigrants in Sheffield lately, if this trend is happening all over the country then we better watch out. The rise in far right parties will happen, despite the pc rubbish the lefty liberals spout. you only have to look at how well the BNP have done recently. Imagine if they had stood in more constituents, how many votes would they have got then?

No doubt I will be branded racist, which to be perfectly honest is fine by me, I've been called worse. :P

Yes, I agree that there are false claimants entering the country. Yes, I agree that some asylum applicants are sponging. BUT this doesn't excuse us from a duty to help those less fortunate than ourselves. It's merely indicative of the fact that the system needs tightening up.

And my point about the British empire - I think people took that slightly too literally. I wasn't saying that, because of previous acts we are now responsible for the woes of the world! I just find it ironic that people talk of the "great British tradition" and our culture and history, when in reality we are probably more to blame for the current state of affairs than any other power. And just because something happened years ago doesn't mean we should feel any less guilty about it.

I still don't understand why you want me to feel guilty about something I had no power or control over? I'm sorry but I just don't feel any guilt whatsoever.

If anything I feel the complete opposite. I am so very proud of being English and British. I am proud of how much we as a tiny island have contributed to the world.

We are not the only nation to have committed atrocious acts, but we seem to be the only nation that is constantly told to feel quilty for it's past.

Perhaps the source of your pride should be that we CAN feel guilt for our acts.

Perhaps "guilt" is the wrong term - "shame" might be better.

Doesn't anyone else see the irony in saying that we are "proud" of our history and tradition, yet refuse to accept the horror of that same history and tradition?!

Originally posted by "waxy chuff"

And my point about the British empire - I think people took that slightly too literally. I wasn't saying that, because of previous acts we are now responsible for the woes of the world!

Firstly you did say that we should feel responsible, it's quoted for you below!!!

Originally posted by "waxy chuff"

But perhaps we have another moral obligation to fulfil - the British Empire spread over three quarters of the globe, murdering and pillaging as it went. We have more than enough of the world's blood on our hands - perhaps we should now make reparations?

Originally posted by "waxy chuff"

Perhaps the source of your pride should be that we CAN feel guilt for our acts.
I don't feel guilty for any actions of my ancestors!

Originally posted by "waxy chuff"

Perhaps "guilt" is the wrong term - "shame" might be better.
I don't feel any sense of shame about my own country, other than the fact that we are too soft where immigration is concerned.

Originally posted by "waxy chuff"

Doesn't anyone else see the irony in saying that we are "proud" of our history and tradition, yet refuse to accept the horror of that same history and tradition?!
Every country has it's own horror stories, and some are still carrying those out (North Korea)! Why should we accept the worlds impoverished just because our ancestors caused a bit of a mess in the past. By saying that the biggest culprit should be the Italians (Roman Hisory?) or the Norweigans (Vikings History?)... get real mate! I don't mean to offend here, but the fact is... I'm sick of lacking immigration control! Close the border! :!: :!: :!:

Originally posted by "waxy chuff"

Just read through this entire thread and had a good giggle to myself. Some of my personal highlights have come from Licksz...

"No one voted for multiculturalism..."

"Fifty years ago we were white and Christian, now we are a babylon of different languages"

"Multiculturalism is a good idea, but in practice..."

"We're threatened with overcrowding by immigrants... Can we afford it?"

Sorry to paraphrase on a couple of occasions, but I still can't work out the quote function.

Licksz, your closet racism is highly amusing. Please keep posting.

Funny thing is Waxy. I find the extremist left wing politics you stand for deeply offensive. Because of the likes of you and your PC brigade cronies is partly the reason why this country is been allowed to be abused by these bogus Asylum seekers and immigrants. I'll address any other points later and add my own. I am short on time at the moment.

It seems to me that essentially lefties such as SheffieldSean on this board are saying 'you can have any brand of politics, as long as its one I agree with'. He argued that the BNP should only be given negative publicity by the media - why should they? Because he doesn't agree with them? A lot of people also come to the strange conclusion that left wing, liberal politics is the "intelligent" way. If the country was run in a strongly left wing way, then we'd see sky high taxes and businesses collapsing or moving abroad. A lack of achievement through not working would be rewarded, and high achieving high earners would be heavily taxed for success - where's the incentive? Soon enough, most people would decide to let the government provide for them, the economy would be in ruin. Labour have adopted many Tory ideas this time around because they know that if they don't, the economy will collapse and trade unions will rule, like the previous times a labour government has been in power. Hence, New Labour = Conservatism, in a lot of ways anyway.

Back to the BNP.... their views are extreme, they are blatently racist. I don't tolerate racism, but I don't tolerate censorship either. I do believe that we let in too many asylum seekers and would support a policy of limiting the numbers per year. We currently take in more than most EU countries, yet we're one of the furthest away from the war torn countries themselves, and they have to cross a channel to get here. If I was fleeing persecution, I'd not trek a further few hundred miles through all the other EU countries which take far less than we do.... it's clear that staying here has financial incentives which they feel are worth such a journey. I wouldn'y say we're that much of a 'soft touch', more a magnet. They know they will be housed, educated, etc.. but this shouldn't be at the expense of Britons, e.g. jumping housing queues.

Originally posted by "steelblade"



You should come down London Road one afternoon, see what these asylum seekers are really like. They are so skint that they can afford to booze all day, smoke and have mobiles. Hard life eh? I'm so glad I work all the hours god sends, to pay for these people and others like them.

Try walking through page hall, pitsmoor, fir vale, darnall etc..it's as though your in a different bl00dy country. It's utterly ridiculous.

.....it obviously looks as if you have overlooked the NATIVES of this country who sit outside the dole office with their mobile phones and sit in the pubs getting [censored].....or those who work and still claim. Remember ethnic minorities only make a very small percentage of the population as a whole in this country. Why don't people go to this site http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2756041.stm and see how "inundated" we are with ethnic minorites.

No I haven't overlooked the native scummers who scrounge just as much.

They are just as much as a drain as all these "asylum seekers" and I'd be quite happy for them to be deported aswell.

This country has enough scroungers as it is, we don't need anymore!

Steelblade frightens me. t020 made his points well and I can understand the concern that informs his opinions, likewise Lickszz to some extent. But Steelblade... your attitude seems to be: don't like 'em, don't want 'em, don't want to suggest anything to resolve the problem; hate, hate, hate, anger, anger, anger.

Is it asylum seekers you don't like or immigrants in general - i.e. do you feel that way about all the Irish immigrants who came to the U.K. to build canals and motorways etc? Or the caribbean immigrants who in bombed-out, post-war Britain helped staff the public transport and hospitals? What about all the eastern european nurses that the goverment is now recruiting? Are they all deserving of your hatred for being from a different culture? Is it foreigners you don't like or maybe non-whites? Or perhaps non-christians? Perhaps you have a hatred of anyone who comes from beyond a two hundred mile radius of where you live. Maybe it's people who "scrounge off the state". In that case your argument has nothing to immigration, just social security fraud.

I'd love to hear your reply.

There's no point in replying. I say what I see, sorry if that scares you.

Originally posted by "steelblade"

There's no point in replying. I say what I see, sorry if that scares you.

Steelblade, it's a shame you edited your reply. Your original one was quite reasonable and made very good points. All I will say to the above is perception isn't equal to truth. i.e. what you are seeing may not be reality. If I lived somewhere where I recieved racist comments all day every day, and heard people around me being really horrible about my kind, I might deduce that "all people of that race are horrible bigots". However if I lived in, say, Notting Hill, with excellent cross-cultural relations; white rastas, black grunge fans, white girls in Saris, Indian trend-setter DJs, I might get quite a different perception of British society. It belies a certain arrogance to believe that what you experience is the truth for all of us.

Extremist left-wing views?! Are you taking the ****?!

My political views, Licksz, are by the by (liberalism tainted with a touch of social realism, if you insist). All I advocate is an open mind on immigration issues.

I do believe the system needs reform. I've said that already. But I can't see what effect "closing the borders" will have, other than an increase in xenophobic feeling towards those "non-natives" already living in Britain.

If you look at people's comments, such as Steelblade, you'll see an alarming number of references to the fact that "it's like living in another country". Ho hum, next you'll be telling me all the nig-nogs are taking your women.

Fact is, mate, you live in the north of England (hardly the most cosmopolitan of places) and are almost universally mocked for your narrow-mindedness and lack of broad outlook. By continuing to post as you do, you're perpetuating a stereotype of Northerners are bigoted, racist, unintelligent belligerents.

There is a point to much of what you guys are posting here, but it is lost in blind rhetoric and shameless bigotry. If you argued your point with reason, then perhaps I'd pay attention. As it is, my own point is a simple one - sure, the system needs reform, but we still have a moral duty, as an influential, rich and prosperous nation, to help those less fortunate than ourselves. If other countries rescind on their obligations, deal with them too. And understand that, in saying you are proud of the great British tradition and history, understand also that you can't pick and choose which bits to be proud of. It's a continuum that involves highs and lows, some of which happened mere decades ago.

Originally posted by "E-Man Groovin"

There's no point in replying. I say what I see, sorry if that scares you.

Steelblade, it's a shame you edited your reply. Your original one was quite reasonable and made very good points. All I will say to the above is perception isn't equal to truth. i.e. what you are seeing may not be reality. If I lived somewhere where I recieved racist comments all day every day, and heard people around me being really horrible about my kind, I might deduce that "all people of that race are horrible bigots". However if I lived in, say, Notting Hill, with excellent cross-cultural relations; white rastas, black grunge fans, white girls in Saris, Indian trend-setter DJs, I might get quite a different perception of British society. It belies a certain arrogance to believe that what you experience is the truth for all of us.

Agreed.

:lol: I thought I'd better edit it. I was thinking perhaps it was racist. Everything seems to be racist these days it's hard to know what I can and can't say.

I didn't want to offend anyone. I am actually a nice person, despite what some might think. :lol:

Originally posted by "E-Man Groovin"

Wierd... no one replies to my posts here... is it cos i is black? :lol: O.K. Let's try this one; Lickszz, or anyone.. can someone tell me what's so bad about the asylum seekers at the moment? *Not* what the Daily Mail and other papers say is so bad, but how it affects our (your) everyday lives? Sheffield seems incredibly white compared to parts of the South. (Hang around the centre of London, say Oxford Street after about 2am and you'll see what I mean). Yet it appears that up here you guys have more of a problem with foreigners than white southerners. Why's that? Maybe I'm missing something. I'm not trying to give u guys a hard time - I just want to know why.


I totally agree with you...I come from the B'ham area where there is a big mix of people....and since moving to Sheffield I have found that "up North" they SEEM to be less tolerant of "foreigners"

Originally posted by "waxy chuff"



I do believe the system needs reform. I've said that already. But I can't see what effect "closing the borders" will have, other than an increase in xenophobic feeling towards those "non-natives" already living in Britain.

Fact is, mate, you live in the north of England (hardly the most cosmopolitan of places) and are almost universally mocked for your narrow-mindedness and lack of broad outlook. By continuing to post as you do, you're perpetuating a stereotype of Northerners are bigoted, racist, unintelligent belligerents.


Waxy,

I agree we do have a right to protect people fleeing for reasons like their life in danger etc. Those are genuine Asylum cases.

I don't remember you saying exactly what reform you think the system needs. Does it involve less people coming in? More/tighter immigration control? Faster processing of Asylum applications? If so then we do agree. If not then, what are your proposals for such a reform?

So, basically what your saying is that the white people who are against immigration are tatooed, beer swilling and jobless people ready to kill you for knocking over their pint! If I sterotyped black pro immigration/race compaigners in this way I'd be "An ignorant racist"

I don't fit any of the above. There are many people who hold these views who don't comform to your sterotypes. Its one thing to try and argue a point, but to avoid aguing it by dismissing any one who holds an opposite view as some kind of British trailer trash is a cop out.

This is what stands in the way of democracy and people having concerns represented by politicians who are scared of being lynched for expressing the legitimate views they hold but fail to speak on.

If you will have noted my previous posts then you will know that I speak of Inner City London pretty often. It's hardly up North is it? Have you been lately? If so, are you of the opinion that immigration is under control there?

You say you contain a part Socialist political stance, but this obviously must be a champagne one. Most of the champagne socialists who want this type of society do not live on the ground among these immigrants and cultures to experience the reality of cultures that fail to integrate.

OK, back to the BNP. where is the alternative? Even the Conservatives in the UK are not truly anti immigration and succumb to the political correctness of not challenging multi culturalism in the UK.

Look at Austria. When they had a right wing party in Government who had an electoral mandate and were representing the very people who didn't want immigration or multi culturalism forced upon them. The Austrian government then found themselves the victim of sanctions imposed by the EU.

In the UK. It is the lack of any alternative between the BNP and the Conservatives that concerns me. The left wingers such as yourselves always put whites voting for right wing parties down to the "White working classes being taken advantage of by extremists"

It's got nothing to do with poverty. The reason there is a link between social class and people voting for the BNP or right wingers is that the working class people end up living right next to the true results of multi culturalism with every race of people next door to them.

Does it ever occur to you that there are people who do not pre-judge others based on their skin colour but just do not want immigration or a multi culteral society imposed upon them.

Just the same way the left wingers tried to justify the tide of immigration in to the UK and cried racism every time they were challenged eventually found the opinions of the British public were so strong that the Government had to start clamping down, the exact same will one day happen to this society that the PC left wingers are trying to build but the majority of people do not want.

Originally posted by "E-Man Groovin"

Steelblade frightens me. t020 made his points well and I can understand the concern that informs his opinions, likewise Lickszz to some extent. But Steelblade... your attitude seems to be: don't like 'em, don't want 'em, don't want to suggest anything to resolve the problem; hate, hate, hate, anger, anger, anger.

Is it asylum seekers you don't like or immigrants in general - i.e. do you feel that way about all the Irish immigrants who came to the U.K. to build canals and motorways etc? Or the caribbean immigrants who in bombed-out, post-war Britain helped staff the public transport and hospitals? What about all the eastern european nurses that the goverment is now recruiting? Are they all deserving of your hatred for being from a different culture? Is it foreigners you don't like or maybe non-whites? Or perhaps non-christians? Perhaps you have a hatred of anyone who comes from beyond a two hundred mile radius of where you live. Maybe it's people who "scrounge off the state". In that case your argument has nothing to immigration, just social security fraud.

I'd love to hear your reply.

It's bogus Asylum seekers and illegal immigrants. The problem is that cultures clash for a number of reasons and they always will. The difference with Irish is that they speak the same language and the cultures are not so alien. I think you will find that the hating is to our culture in lots of ways, its not purely one way.

I don't know where your going with the NHS thing, but many people have said that the NHS is just like that of a third world country these days, perhaps this is the reason why?

Originally posted by "t020"

It seems to me that essentially lefties such as SheffieldSean on this board are saying 'you can have any brand of politics, as long as its one I agree with'. He argued that the BNP should only be given negative publicity by the media - why should they? Because he doesn't agree with them? A lot of people also come to the strange conclusion that left wing, liberal politics is the "intelligent" way. If the country was run in a strongly left wing way, then we'd see sky high taxes and businesses collapsing or moving abroad. A lack of achievement through not working would be rewarded, and high achieving high earners would be heavily taxed for success - where's the incentive? Soon enough, most people would decide to let the government provide for them, the economy would be in ruin. Labour have adopted many Tory ideas this time around because they know that if they don't, the economy will collapse and trade unions will rule, like the previous times a labour government has been in power. Hence, New Labour = Conservatism, in a lot of ways anyway.

Back to the BNP.... their views are extreme, they are blatently racist. I don't tolerate racism, but I don't tolerate censorship either. I do believe that we let in too many asylum seekers and would support a policy of limiting the numbers per year. We currently take in more than most EU countries, yet we're one of the furthest away from the war torn countries themselves, and they have to cross a channel to get here. If I was fleeing persecution, I'd not trek a further few hundred miles through all the other EU countries which take far less than we do.... it's clear that staying here has financial incentives which they feel are worth such a journey. I wouldn'y say we're that much of a 'soft touch', more a magnet. They know they will be housed, educated, etc.. but this shouldn't be at the expense of Britons, e.g. jumping housing queues.

Well said that man.

Like I said the problems with voting for NF etc. is that they are just that - a one issue party.

However, a sudden rise in seats would attract the attention of the main parties.

.....it obviously looks as if you have overlooked the NATIVES of this country who sit outside the dole office with their mobile phones and sit in the pubs getting [censored].....or those who work and still claim. Remember ethnic minorities only make a very small percentage of the population as a whole in this country. Why don't people go to this site http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2756041.stm and see how "inundated" we are with ethnic minorites.

Although the BBC are a very legitimate source. These figures are hardly likely to include illegal immigrants. These figures were also taken 2 years ago. what I would like to see is a comparision from then to the present day.

Lickszz,

The classic 1950s room to let signs which were subtitled:

No Irish
No Blacks
No Dogs

didn't seem to care about the fact that both Irish and West Indians were english speakers (and that the West Indians at the time shared the same monarch and were colonised into the same culture as the native brits). Why do you think think they were ostracised? Language? nope. Culture? Nope. Just because they were different that's all. Now it's those dark skinned types with names like Mohammed who are the objects of our fear and hatred.

As for your equation of the failing NHS with foreign nurses - careful you are showing your lack of logic here. It's not the nurses fault that there's a lack of beds/ lack of financing etc. Come on Lickszz, you're not as daft as all that are you? I suppose there must be some foreigner to blame for the state of the railways, and the problems with manufacturing in this country too (now where have we heard something similar... Germany in the mid-thirties perhaps?)

I will agree with you on one thing, that there are a minority within ALL cultures/races (black, white, asian whatever) who hate other races. Abhorrent, ridiculous, stupid, unintelligent all. Don't you be like them Lickszz, build bridges, not walls.

I have read with interest as this thread has developed and grown.
I have enjoyed reading the views of 'left wingers' saying that the perception of Northerners is that we hate (or dislike) foreigners more than southerners. Classing us a bigots and accusing us of putting people we don't like in a group. Can anyone else see the irony of that point? by calling 'Northerners', do you get that? 'Northerners'!!! You've become what you've accused us of! You've put the people you dont like (or thats how it sounds in your posts) in our own little group.
Now I'm not one to start calling southerners names and classing them in a different way, because after all, we all part of the same nation.

I stand by my views that our country needs sorting out. Why are we allowing our country to be exploited by 'illegal' immigrants, when we are struggling to make our own country right? We are one of the richest countries in the world... yes! We also have a MASSIVE amount of debt! As far as I'm concerned, until we sort out our failing NHS, got homeless off the streets, tackled child prostetution and helped out our own impoverished, why are we takling the worlds problems?
I'm all for helping others in need, but lets setup a way of helping them, re-build their lives in their own countries.

But wait, we can't do that, because they are running from their own governments, and are in fear for their lives. So what do we do? We Liberate their country (I'm using Iraq as an example), but that isn;t good enough for the left wingers of the world! Why free a nation, when we can just let in all of its occupants onto our TINY island!

Why deal with a problem? Lets sort out a cure! I'm all for a live an let live policy. In fact, I'd rather class myself as a member of the Human Race rather than British.

Originally posted by "DaBouncer"

Why deal with a problem? Lets sort out a cure! I'm all for a live an let live policy. In fact, I'd rather class myself as a member of the Human Race rather than British.

Well said Da Bouncer! There's loads of us here with different views and I'm sure that there isn't any one of us that's 100% right (except me of course :lol: ) and there's probably an element of truth in everyone's posts. So, as long as the BNP don't come for me with their pointy hats and flaming crosses, and I guess for the likes of Lickszz and Steelblade, as long as they don't feel that society is being fleeced by illegal migrants (what about if they work hard and *pay* lots of taxes, and integrate into British society?), then we can all be happy perhaps?

Originally posted by "E-Man Groovin"

Lickszz,

The classic 1950s room to let signs which were subtitled:

No Irish
No Blacks
No Dogs

didn't seem to care about the fact that both Irish and West Indians were english speakers (and that the West Indians at the time shared the same monarch and were colonised into the same culture as the native brits). Why do you think think they were ostracised? Language? nope. Culture? Nope. Just because they were different that's all. Now it's those dark skinned types with names like Mohammed who are the objects of our fear and hatred.

As for your equation of the failing NHS with foreign nurses - careful you are showing your lack of logic here. It's not the nurses fault that there's a lack of beds/ lack of financing etc. Come on Lickszz, you're not as daft as all that are you? I suppose there must be some wog to blame for the state of the railways, and the problems with manufacturing in this country too (now where have we heard something similar... Germany in the mid-thirties perhaps?)

I will agree with you on one thing, that there are a minority within ALL cultures/races (black, white, asian whatever) who hate other races. Abhorrent, ridiculous, stupid, unintelligent all. Don't you be like them Lickszz, build bridges, not walls.

E- Man Groovin.

Of course you may have realised that the NHS remark was tongue in cheek. I have said I don't HATE or blame immigrants for anything. I do blame Politicians and PC left wingers.

What my point is that the masses did not vote on a specific referendum requesting multiculturalism. It was thrust upon them by polital parties whose only "differences" on this issue was just how much multiculturalism should be rejected into the UK and also Germany since you previously mentioned them. Having said that these peoples votes went to parties that support muliculturalism, it would be naive to say that it means they've voted for multicultalism specifically. Did you vote for Blair? If so, this means that you voted for the war in Iraq, after all, you knew Blair was a close ally of Bush in the first place, you warmonger! you get my point?

The UK like America and Germany (and too many other countries) are dominated by two major parties. Yes, one can throw a protest vote in the direction of a group like the BNP, but that kind of vote simply isn't likely to be tempting for enough people. This leaves many voters stuck choosing between the two major parties; both of whom follow the PC line on multiculturalism. And of course, if they chose to protest this by not voting at all, they would be accused of "whining" and "not participating" in the electoral process.

And I'm sure you realize that it's in the best interests of the two major parties to marginalize and stigmatize the opposition parties. This type of stonewalling further ensures that the views of organizations like the BNP aren't given a chance to be properly understood by the masses. Its the same problem in America with Nader frozen out of the Presidential debates.

But as for voting for another party, that is not completely pointless. No, the BNP, or any other tertiary party in our predominantly two party systems in the West, will never get in, but imagine what a 10% vote for the BNP would do to our major parties here in the UK. It would certainly make them listen.

Personally, I don't think it will happen. BNP supporters by implication feel very strongly about their vote, and their turnout is much higher across all age groups, than those bored major party supporters. We've already seen this in the BNP local council successes. As I already said there's a goldmine of ageing voters out there for them to exploit, but without a charismatic leader to sweeten the pill, they won't move from the vote they've made for the past couple of decades.

For the record I don't hate Blacks, Irish or Dogs.

I am very frustrated with Economic Migrant Immigration Issues/Policies.

Your from the South right? Are you familiar with Newham? If so:

Go for a stroll down Green street and find yourself in Bangladesh.
Go for a stroll down East Ham High street and you are instantly transported to India.
Go for a stroll down Forest gate and find yourself in the West Indies.
Go for a stroll down Stratford and find someone to speak English to.
Go to the bank in Custom house/Canning town/Silvertown/Woolwich and you will have been given miracle powers as the local residents have decided to withdraw money so many times when they did not have an account there is now no banks for over 100,000 Newham residents.

Its not just about building bridges, people have got to want to fit in to start with. We are a very tolerant nation. Somtimes too tolerant for our own good and can be taken advantage of.

I don't hate/fear any Mohammeds. I fear Britain been swamped and over populated by Immigrants and Refugees who more often than not have a tendancy to out breed us natives which in turn will threaten our English Culture. Multiculturalism could be classed as Genocide in a way if you look at it from that perspective. Britain is a small Island with not much room to grow/expand.

You mention Immigrants with skilled professions. These are somewhat different, if they are coming for work purposes then that is of course widely acceptable, they are filling a skills shortage. At last we have found a positive point about Multiculturalism.

I'd still like to know why even genuine asylum seekers still seem hell bent on coming to England, why don't they stay in the first country they find freedom in :?: BECAUSE WE ARE A SOFT TOUCH!
A couple of months ago a friend and i got chatting to a man from Afganistan he had been in the country for two months. Already he had a flat, and was receiving benefits. When we asked why he hadn't stayed in any of the countries he had passed through. He laughed and said England was the best the, other countries had nothing to offer. We asked if he meant job prospects. Again he laughed and said no here in England you don't have to work. At which stage was so angry had to leave the cafe for fear of belting him! I don't know what the answer is to the asylum problem. Recruit more staff maybe to quicken up the process might be a start. Maybe then the waste of space i met could go back to his own country and stop leeching off us!

:cry: What a lot of hatred, fear and ignorance there is in this country. All dressed up in it's Sunday best to look like logic and righteous indignation. :cry:

Vote for the BNP as a protest vote? There aren't words for such a wrongfooted suggestion. That's a direct vote for direct hatred and violence towards other human beings, doesn't matter how it's dressed up.
Years back, my family (white) were on the KKKs hit list in Texas for daring to voice their own opinion (anti KKK). The public and political face of the KKK of course said violence shouldn't be tolerated while the guys in the white hoods with burning crosses did their best to burn a hole in my family. So much for free speech.
I don't honestly see much difference between the KKK and the BNP - all the same rhetoric about illegal immigrants and 'them' taking 'our' jobs...hiding the reality of the NF and racist violence with 'reasonable' political arguments.
No matter how frustrating people might think things are, how could they possibly vote for murder, violence, hatred, and threats?
How do you make something better out of voting for that?
How does saying 'I'm not racist, but...' make that choice any better?

I honestly don't understand. And I'm not sure I want to. :cry:

Laura

senseofplace have you not read the comments made by debs66? The gentleman from Afganistan are one of the reasons why the BNP are getting more votes.

You tell me... was he right in his thinking?

Originally posted by "senseofplace"


No matter how frustrating people might think things are, how could they possibly vote for murder, violence, hatred, and threats?
How do you make something better out of voting for that?
How does saying 'I'm not racist, but...' make that choice any better?

I honestly don't understand. And I'm not sure I want to. :cry:



I can only repeat what I said above.
Put it another way...
I don't think two wrongs make a right.

Laura

>'them' taking 'our' jobs<

If only that were the case! it wouldn't be so bad if it was jobs they were after instaed of scrounging from the DSS.

Hurrah for SenseOfPlace...

Exactly what I've been trying to say all along. Lickszz & Da Bouncer, you guys don't sound like bad chaps, but SenseOfPlace said it - the BNP are scary and there MUST be other ways to address your issues. Do you feel that powerless?

Lickszz your point about not voting for multiculturalism is a non starter. No government implemented multiculturalism as a distinct policy. It's like being fed up with postmodernism and saying "I didn't vote for postmodernism, can't we go back to the renaissance?". It's something that technology and history have created. You can't vote out punk music, hip-hop, youth culture, the internet, the global village, multiculturalism. If you don't like any of those things, you've just got to live with them I'm afraid - some movements just happen. Yes be practical, find ways to tighten up the asylum process in the U.K. but do not go voting for an extreme (for that is what they are), hate-led (scratch the surface and that's what's beneath), unrealistic (because their policies make no sense) party such as the BNP. Please!

>because their policies make no sense<

IMMIGRATION - time to say NO!

EUROPE - back to British independence!

LAW AND ORDER - crack down on crime!

ECONOMY - British workers first!

EDUCATION - discipline, standards, achievement!AGRICULTURE - quality before quantity!

HEALTH - first-class healthcare for all!

TRANSPORT - time to invest!

ENVIRONMENT - NO to pollution!

FOREIGN AID - time to spend our money on our own people!

PENSIONERS - pensioners before asylum seekers!

NORTHERN IRELAND - NO to sectarianism!

DEFENCE - no more cuts!

FOREIGN AFFAIRS - Britain's interests first!

DEMOCRACY - letting the people decide!

All of these headings are the BNP's policies. The full transcript can be read here: http://www.bnp.org.uk/policies.html

I have to say, these policies make perfect sense to me. Wonder how many other people feel the same?

Originally posted by "steelblade"

>because their policies make no sense<

IMMIGRATION - time to say NO!

EUROPE - back to British independence!

LAW AND ORDER - crack down on crime!

ECONOMY - British workers first!

EDUCATION - discipline, standards, achievement!AGRICULTURE - quality before quantity!

HEALTH - first-class healthcare for all!

TRANSPORT - time to invest!

ENVIRONMENT - NO to pollution!

FOREIGN AID - time to spend our money on our own people!

PENSIONERS - pensioners before asylum seekers!

NORTHERN IRELAND - NO to sectarianism!

DEFENCE - no more cuts!

FOREIGN AFFAIRS - Britain's interests first!

DEMOCRACY - letting the people decide!

All of these headings are the BNP's policies. The full transcript can be read here: http://www.bnp.org.uk/policies.html

I have to say, these policies make perfect sense to me. Wonder how many other people feel the same?

Hmm.. Steelblade, most of the above are just emotional appeals as opposed to policies that make sense. For example I could start a party which has policies that scream:

FREE MONEY FOR EVERYONE!

UNLIMITED BEER!

FERRARI FOR ALL MALES OVER 25!

MASERATIS FOR ALL FEMALES WHO WANT ONE!

NO TO WORKING FROM 9 TO FIVE!

LONGER HOLIDAYS!

HIGHER PAY!

all very good on the page, but....

:wink:

I agree with a lot of their policies. There are however some others I don't agree with. They dont like Dance music, Hip-hop etc. What kind of poily is that.

Yes E-Man Groovin..... at the minute I DO feel that powerless, when these people (not all) are coming her to exploit our country and not to embrace it. And I'm not discriminating against the black immigrants either. The same IMHO goes for any imigrant (Australian, Afganistan, French, German, American, Iraqi, Bosnian...etc etc).
If it was to come here and work and help to create a better UK (IMO multi-cultural is a better UK) then I'm all for it!

The fact is, the MAJORITY of these people are migrating here for our benefits! The UK is paved with Gold (i've heard from a lot of them).

Prove me wrong... please.

Well I certainly agree with your taste in music DaBouncer :) And I understand your points if you feel that there are people coming to the U.K. who have no genuine asylum case and who are coming just to sit around all day and take benefits. That would annoy any taxpayer (black, white or whatever). I do disagree with that however, but I won't go into that now.

My problem with the BNP is that they don't like any non-native english person. Not only those who are immigrants, but those who were born here, lived all their lives here and have contributed (in some cases) hundreds of thousands of pounds in tax and national insurance to the national purse. Don't forget that Mr Marks - of Marks & Spencer - Sigmund Freud & Albert Einstein were all asylum seekers. If the BNP had their way, they'd give such people a very hard time. Germany would have been the world leader in rocket and nuclear technology if they hadn't kicked out many of the prominent Jews - hahaha! Instead America took many of them and who is laughing now.

The BNP's approach is simply wrong and is based on negative emotions and not practical logical thinking about what is really best for the U.K.

Originally posted by "senseofplace"

:cry: What a lot of hatred, fear and ignorance there is in this country. All dressed up in it's Sunday best to look like logic and righteous indignation. :cry:

Vote for the BNP as a protest vote? There aren't words for such a wrongfooted suggestion. That's a direct vote for direct hatred and violence towards other human beings, doesn't matter how it's dressed up.
Years back, my family (white) were on the KKKs hit list in Texas for daring to voice their own opinion (anti KKK). The public and political face of the KKK of course said violence shouldn't be tolerated while the guys in the white hoods with burning crosses did their best to burn a hole in my family. So much for free speech.
I don't honestly see much difference between the KKK and the BNP - all the same rhetoric about illegal immigrants and 'them' taking 'our' jobs...hiding the reality of the NF and racist violence with 'reasonable' political arguments.
No matter how frustrating people might think things are, how could they possibly vote for murder, violence, hatred, and threats?
How do you make something better out of voting for that?
How does saying 'I'm not racist, but...' make that choice any better?

I honestly don't understand. And I'm not sure I want to. :cry:

Laura

NO its not a direct vote for BNP it would be a protest vote against the other major parties, did you not read my post? The other major parties run the show and are refusing to do anything about immigrant control. Can you come up with a better way of making them listen? I am all ears!

Originally posted by "E-Man Groovin"

Hurrah for SenseOfPlace...

Exactly what I've been trying to say all along. Lickszz & Da Bouncer, you guys don't sound like bad chaps, but SenseOfPlace said it - the BNP are scary and there MUST be other ways to address your issues. Do you feel that powerless?


Once again I am not able to reply right now. Don't worry I shall reply later upon my return.

Originally posted by "Lickszz"


NO its not a direct vote for BNP it would be a protest vote against the other major parties, did you not read my post? The other major parties run the show and are refusing to do anything about immigrant control. Can you come up with a better way of making them listen? I am all ears!

Yes it is a direct vote for the BNP. Put a cross next to their candidates name, put the slip in the polling box. That is by any definition a direct vote for the BNP. :lol:
Do you think they say to themselves 'That's a vote for our policies, good. And here's another. Oh but I reckon this vote here is just a protest vote. All right then, we'll bear that in mind.' :?: :!:

Spoiling a ballot paper is a protest vote. Starting your own campaign and running as an independent is a protest. Writing letters, articles, and harassing your MPs, MEPs and councillors is a protest. Demonstrating is a protest. Getting involved in the communities you're talking about and finding out if things are as bad as you say/ helping work to change things for the better, is definitely an alternative

Voting for a xenophobic, apologist for racial violence, party - if you are not a hundred percent sure that you want them running the streets/council/government with menaces and threats towards other human beings - is at best short sighted and at worst (I feel) unspeakably ignorant and dangerous. And I'm willing to bet it will not get the country any closer to your aims than any of the above mentioned alternatives.

As for their campaign promises, surely no-one thinks that all the pretty promises they and the other parties come up with are 100% true? They all aim for the most middle-of-the-road, acceptable-sounding promises. Of course the bnp don't say 'we promise to take a baseball bat to anybody we don't like the colour of', because that would put a great many of their voters right off (I hope) - hopefully for starters everyone here who reckons they make a suitable protest vote would be the first to walk away from them in disgust. No, the bnp depend on fear, uncertainty, frustration, and ignorance of their true policies for their votes. They also depend on unashamed racists who are happy to hurt people to make their points.

Laura

There are so many factual errors in this message string that I almost do not know where to begin

But I shall do my best to put you right on a few things

Item 1. Asylum Seekers receive £35 per week in benefits. Full Stop.

Item 2. Asylum Seekers are housed in houses or flats that no-one else will have, houses that have been empty for a long time, houses in fact that you or I would certainly turn our noses up at

Item 3. No Asylum Seeker anywhere in the country, no matter what you have read in the paper, no matter what a bloke in a pub told you, has had a car bought for them by the state.

Item 4. Asylum Seekers are not allowed to work, therefore they cant be "coming over here taking our jobs."

Although it is true that if their claim for asylum is subsequently accepted then they are free to look for work and then cease to need to be paid £35 a week. Many become Doctors in our Health Service, and very glad the NHS is to have them too. Otherwise we wouldnt have enough Doctors and waiting lists would be way longer.

Item 5. Asylum Seekers are dispersed around the country so that their support need not all fall on the shoulders of one authority. Each city has a support network made up of volunteers who collect clothes and goods from generous members of the public and then give them to arriving Asylum Seekers. This is called charity and most of those who criticise Asylum Seekers would turn their own noses up at receiving second hand goods. It does however explain why it might occasionally be possible to see an Asylum Seeker nicely dressed, perhaps their cast-offs came from the wealthier parts of Hallam?

Item 6. £35 a week, that must be worth repeating, could you live on that?

Then we come to the BNP

Let us make a few things clear shall we. They are a legitimate political party, vile and odious of course, but legitimate. They have the right to put up candidates wherever they like, and wherever they can find someone to be their candidate or where they think they might have support. I like to think that the fact that they only put up two candidates in Sheffield out of 20-odd is because they couldnt get the support, or anyone to stand for them.

They believe in voluntary repatriation for non-white residents. That means 3rd generation, 4th generation, 5th generation, all of them.. repatriation means sending someone back right? back to where though, if your family have lived here for say 80 years, and your grandparents were born here and you are 16, where should you be repatriated to? voluntarily or otherwise. And I always wonder what would happen to the NHS if only white people worked there, it would collapse on the first day because half the staff would be gone.

Once elected it has been shown that the BNP do not attend meetings and have no interest in the problems local people might bring to them, like highways or getting your bins emptied for instance.

The majority of the senior figures in the BNP have criminal convictions for GBH/ABH and racial hatred incidents.

The BNP have said nice supportive things about Hitler, the nazis and the Klu Klux Klan, publically. They are also homophobic, anti-gay.

They used to be known as the National Front, it seems to me that a lot of people either do not know that or have forgotten.

Their website, where you can find out for yourself their vile policies is at http://www.bnp.org.uk/

Here is one of them, a very strange policy that says it will basically stop asians from being taxi drivers or running shops or take-aways. I am sure this will be welcomed warmly by all of the hordes of people who would be glad to replace them and have been waiting for just this chance...find me one and I will ask them!!

"We will examine closely the licensing policies of the council in relation to taxi and minicab businesses to ensure that the ownership of such firms and the supply of drivers bears the closest possible relationship to the average make-up of the local population. This will also apply to other areas of trade where a BNP council has control of licensing including the sale of alcohol, market trading and late hours catering services."

I am not sure anyone is going to read this so I shall stop now. I wanted to set some facts straight.

Cheers

Originally posted by "LouiseB"



The BNP have said nice supportive things about Hitler, the nazis and the Klu Klux Klan, publically. They are also homophobic, anti-gay.

Erm..... it's the Ku Klux Klan!

Cheers :P

LouiseB that was a brilliant piece. I have been building up to answering the stupid people on this site who profess not to be racist but will not accept that asylum seekers have a valid reason for being here. You have said it all. I particularly like your intelligent deconstruction of the bnp as a valid political party.

Did you see the report this week which said one way to reduce immigration into this country is to stop selling arms to their native country?

Well done again, I doubt many of the posters on this thread will read it right through though, as the red mist of ignorance will start forming after the first sentence.

I truly hope you dont class me in that way maxt?
Obviously poeple who are left wing don't accept the valid view of people who think that this country has become a soft touch.

Although my response to LouiseB goes to prove I actually read the whole thing and found it very interesting and very accurate.

Sorry, I feel passionately about this issue as all around me I see people responding to the issue of asylum seekers in much the same way they reacted to single mothers in the 90s. People should find out more facts, as LouiseB obviously has, without resorting to anecdotal stories heard from a bloke down the pub.

Again, apologies for my intemperate language but you see, I do care. About my country and the reputation it is getting abroad as a second nazi germany as much as anything.

Don't be sorry for your views maxt, you have a right to them as much as the people who have differing views do also.

I respect your views on this matter and though some may differ I feel you have valid points of view.
I too don't want my beloved UK to be seen as a second Nazi state, but I also don't want my beloved UK exploited by 'illegal' migrants.

Going on a bit this topic, isn't it!

GENUINE asylum seekers = no problem.

But, as I have previously stated, the UK takes more asylum seekers than most EU countries yet is geographically one of the furthest away from such war torn countries.... would GENUINE asylum seekers travel for another few hundred miles and across a channel? Doubtful. However, bogus asylum seekers who know about the rewards of reaching England will flock here. What we need is stricter controls in place to deal with asylum seekers. That includes placing a quota on the numbers we take in, and a very in depth screening programme designed to stop bogus asylum seekers and terrorists and get them ready for deportation. What we don't need is more and more asylum seekers - we take more than our fair share. The NHS is already very strained, for example. Asylum seekers will get ill, and will use our health service, yet have not paid taxes to fund it. Obviously genuine asylum seekers should be treated compassionately, but it is easy to see why so many people are resentful. As a student you may be surprised that I do not share the same left wing stance that many people adopt. I am indeed a Conservative voter, and I believe if they got into power the asylum seeker issue would be resolved. As it stands however, one cannot help feeling somewhat invaded. When I start work and paying income tax, I want the taxes to support people who have lived in this country and at some point contributed towards the economy, not bogus asylum seekers coming to drain our resources.

Yes it is a direct vote for the BNP. Put a cross next to their candidates name, put the slip in the polling box. That is by any definition a direct vote for the BNP. :lol:
Do you think they say to themselves 'That's a vote for our policies, good. And here's another. Oh but I reckon this vote here is just a protest vote. All right then, we'll bear that in mind.' :?: :!:

Spoiling a ballot paper is a protest vote. Starting your own campaign and running as an independent is a protest. Writing letters, articles, and harassing your MPs, MEPs and councillors is a protest. Demonstrating is a protest. Getting involved in the communities you're talking about and finding out if things are as bad as you say/ helping work to change things for the better, is definitely an alternative

Voting for a xenophobic, apologist for racial violence, party - if you are not a hundred percent sure that you want them running the streets/council/government with menaces and threats towards other human beings - is at best short sighted and at worst (I feel) unspeakably ignorant and dangerous. And I'm willing to bet it will not get the country any closer to your aims than any of the above mentioned alternatives.

As for their campaign promises, surely no-one thinks that all the pretty promises they and the other parties come up with are 100% true? They all aim for the most middle-of-the-road, acceptable-sounding promises. Of course the bnp don't say 'we promise to take a baseball bat to anybody we don't like the colour of', because that would put a great many of their voters right off (I hope) - hopefully for starters everyone here who reckons they make a suitable protest vote would be the first to walk away from them in disgust. No, the bnp depend on fear, uncertainty, frustration, and ignorance of their true policies for their votes. They also depend on unashamed racists who are happy to hurt people to make their points.

Laura


Spoiling a ballot paper is NOT a protest vote! You are not actually voting or protesting against anything in particular! If I void a ballot paper are the major parties going to know exactly what I am protesting about? But if the BNP get a 10% rise then they may get the general idea! Understand that logic? I don't think you understand how the political system works and exactly what a protest vote is. There are 3 major parties in the UK. The BNP is a minor party and they do not receive anywhere near the media coverage on the run up to the elections as other parties. There are 60 Million people in the UK, how many votes do you think the likes of the BNP get? They don't stand a chance of getting into power, be real. Yes, I could stand for election myself, but that costs £5000. Imagine if you lived in Inner City London where I believe the situation it at its worst. You have to go there to understand. How could one win votes on tougher Asylum laws/crime/welfare state reform when the people you would be asking to vote for you locally would be directly opposed to your views as they benefit from the status quo. Spending 5k would be a lost cause. I am against economic migrant immigration/free welfare/I am pro death penalty/I am against high taxation - those are right wing views I hold and I am a centre left Labour voter in the UK who economically I personally would be better off if I voted Conservative. I have been a Labour supporter for many years and voted for them in 1997 and 2001. I like some policies, I dislike others.

At the moment I am frustrated with their policies, but I don’t see a way around it and nothing I do personally I feel would change the issue. I
agree with the Labour party on many issues, the Conservatives on very few, Liberals pick and choose their policies to fit the dish of the day. If things don't improve I will be putting in a protest vote at the next election. A lot of people on here seem to support every policy like a lemming coming out of the Blair regime.
Me I pick and choose which policies I support and which I disagree with and have done throughout the time I have been able to vote.


I will sit here and rant and rave for free, as at least it gets it of my chest


You see the problem with PC Left Wingers is that they put anyone who disagrees with Economic Migration all in the same pigeon hole which is very wrong. Another classic from the PC's is that the people who vote BNP are all brainwashed or intimidated into voting for them. This is such rubbish. Personally I do not think you can be brainwashed into a way of thinking unless you are not mentally strong.
No matter what propaganda comes out of politician’s mouths, in the UK as you know most people treat it with scepticism, no matter what party they represent.
Politicians own fault for telling too many lies, so now no one believes what they say unless backed up by facts.
This is the same opinion I have of politicians in the UK and the USA,
Democrat/Labour/Liberal/Conservative/Repulican.

I want to see facts and proof before judging for myself and not just their rhetoric[/quote]

Originally posted by "maxt"

LouiseB that was a brilliant piece. I have been building up to answering the stupid people on this site who profess not to be racist but will not accept that asylum seekers have a valid reason for being here. You have said it all. I particularly like your intelligent deconstruction of the bnp as a valid political party.

Did you see the report this week which said one way to reduce immigration into this country is to stop selling arms to their native country?

Well done again, I doubt many of the posters on this thread will read it right through though, as the red mist of ignorance will start forming after the first sentence.

Maxt.

I don't know exactly who your referring to, but I would like to point out that I have never ever said that legitimate Asylum Seekers should not be allowed here.

Originally posted by "E-Man Groovin"



Exactly what I've been trying to say all along. Lickszz & Da Bouncer, you guys don't sound like bad chaps, but SenseOfPlace said it - the BNP are scary and there MUST be other ways to address your issues. Do you feel that powerless?

You can't vote out punk music, hip-hop, youth culture, the internet, the global village, multiculturalism.

Come on E-man your not that stupid are you? Multiculturalism is a bit more of a serious subject than Punk Music.

Have you seen any evidence of things tightening up? if so, I would like to know what. Yes there has been lots of tough talking but so far no acting. Do you remember the Stanstead Hi-jackers? Jack "short" Straw said that these must be dealt with fast and it must be emphasised that people cannot hi-jack aeroplanes in order to get Asylum in Britian and recommended that all 8 should be removed from this country. Guess what? Half of them are still here, how many years later? At who's expense?

OK E-Man. Lets try this for a bit of productivity.

Here is a few suggestions on the Asylum issue:

1) It is our duty to provide haven for political asylum PARTICULARLY where we are involved in military action.
2) All illegal immigrants should be dispatched back to where they came from. Follow the process or go back.
3) We should distinguish between (a) Genuine asylum seekers (b) Economic migrants (SPONGERS) and (c) Terrorists. It is interesting to note that only a tiny FRACTION of incoming migrants can be linked to terrorist groups, but it is a danger worthy of security.
4) Political asylum seekers that pass all of our conditions as a nation should be encouraged WHEREVER POSSIBLE to seek haven in countries CLOSER to their own.

If these simple ideas are met in full a lot of British citizens of whatever background will feel better. Consider the roads today. Only a few motorists SERIOUSLY break the rules, yet we all have to put up with speed humps, cameras etc. Asylum is exactly the same. Those that come here GENUINELY probably do not care how long it takes nor where they are housed as long as they are looked after.

I find it quite disgusting that indiginous people have to wait YEARS to be housed in a council house (IF AT ALL), whilse asylum seekers can come in and jump the queue. Such policy creates even more hatred towards these people. It does not make us racist that we are concerned. It does mean we want this country to be respected and protected from those that seek to bleed us dry or worse.

Its all common sense really. Is it likely to happen?

ps - I do feel that powerless yes, as already stated there isn't a current party who seems prepared to represent my views/concerns on these issues.

Originally posted by "LouiseB"

There are so many factual errors in this message string that I almost do not know where to begin

But I shall do my best to put you right on a few things

Item 1. Asylum Seekers receive £35 per week in benefits. Full Stop.

Item 2. Asylum Seekers are housed in houses or flats that no-one else will have, houses that have been empty for a long time, houses in fact that you or I would certainly turn our noses up at

Item 3. No Asylum Seeker anywhere in the country, no matter what you have read in the paper, no matter what a bloke in a pub told you, has had a car bought for them by the state.

Item 4. Asylum Seekers are not allowed to work, therefore they cant be "coming over here taking our jobs."

Although it is true that if their claim for asylum is subsequently accepted then they are free to look for work and then cease to need to be paid £35 a week. Many become Doctors in our Health Service, and very glad the NHS is to have them too. Otherwise we wouldnt have enough Doctors and waiting lists would be way longer.

Item 5. Asylum Seekers are dispersed around the country so that their support need not all fall on the shoulders of one authority. Each city has a support network made up of volunteers who collect clothes and goods from generous members of the public and then give them to arriving Asylum Seekers. This is called charity and most of those who criticise Asylum Seekers would turn their own noses up at receiving second hand goods. It does however explain why it might occasionally be possible to see an Asylum Seeker nicely dressed, perhaps their cast-offs came from the wealthier parts of Hallam?

Item 6. £35 a week, that must be worth repeating, could you live on that?

Then we come to the BNP

Let us make a few things clear shall we. They are a legitimate political party, vile and odious of course, but legitimate. They have the right to put up candidates wherever they like, and wherever they can find someone to be their candidate or where they think they might have support. I like to think that the fact that they only put up two candidates in Sheffield out of 20-odd is because they couldnt get the support, or anyone to stand for them.




LouiseB.

You failed to mention some of the additional benefits in your listings.


Rent Free, All Living Costs (which has to include Accommodation, Food, Heating, Light, Transport, Entertainment, Medical arrangements etc.) So, this £35 pounds per week could be classed as spending money?

Item No 2. Not true. In Hull for example many of the houses that Asylum seekers are placed in are better than some that the council tenanats live in.

Item No. 3. The car thing is a grey area. Nobody is going to admit to this, but recently an article was published in a local rag in Lincolnshire where a DSS representative was been interviewed regarding 'free cars' He neither denied it nor admitted it but said that money for personal needs was granted from the 'emergency funds' in selected cases! Read into that what you like!

Item No. 4. What about the 1000 taken from France with work permits? are they not allowed to work too? What about the illegal fiddle work/cheaper labour taken on by corrupt employers, their obviously taking someones job!

Item No 5. Cast offs from some wealthy people. Come on, no evidence to support this, Could just as easily say they were stolen. Dispersed around the country, see Inner City London!

With regards to the £35 a week, how much do you think our Pensioners/Unemployed receive?

I agree. The background of the BNP and it's leaders is not healthy. Many of them do have criminal records. What you've got to understand is the facts are that they are the only party to speak out against uncontrolled immigration and bogus asylum which are the hottest potatos of them all in political terms, every other party has refused to acknowledge that it is out of control. Before the BNP started winning council seats you never heard a peep out of the main parties about bogus asylum seekers; they were too afraid of being labelled racist. It was only after the BNP gained three council seats in Burnley and started to contest many more that Labour suddenly began accepting that perhaps there was a problem and David Blunkett (Plonkett) began his tough talk about fast tracking the asylum system and sending the illegals back to where they came from. Unfortunately, that's all it was ' tough talk' no action. The majority of people who protest vote BNP DO NOT want to see BNP in Goverment, they want to attract the attention of the main parties as before. The leader of the BNP even said that Jack Straw was his best recruiting sergeant. Go figure!

Lickszz I'm very impressed at the background you have checked upon in your responses.
There are a lot of factual comments that LouiseB and E-Man' have put forward, but I feel yours sum up the feeling that normal everyday British People (Black and White) feel about our immigration laws.

It is about time something is sorted on this issue!
The BNP do have a lot of good political objectives set out in their agenda!
The BNP also house a lot of hatred towards non-white British people which I feel needs to be addressed and brought into the 21st century!
It does sadden me that a political party like the BNP feels that it needs to go to such extremes, when it could gain more public support if it were to introduce black british people into the party.

'Illegal' immigrants are coming here in record numbers and we aren't doing a great deal to stop them.
We setup a hostel to house the illegal immigrants while they had their applications processed. What happened? They ran riot and burned it down!
It's true that there is a lot of hatred building towards these people because of the way they are coming here simply for our benefits.
Be it £35 per week or £150 per week (and having a relative working for the DWP... I should know).

What some people don't realise is that a lot of these illegal immigrants aren't trying to seek asylum... they are criminals in there own country and feel that the UK is a soft touch.

I'm not a promoter of the BNP... far from it! But I do stand by a few of their policies.
If only we had a Government that took on board 'some' of the BNP's policies on immigration, maybe the British public wont seem so New Nazi after all.

We are just fed up of taxes rising and rising and rising to pay for immigrants that shouldn't be here in the first place.
If they want to be part of the UK... play the game! Post a valid asylum claim and wait for the Government to evaluate it! Simple as that!

Some of you may want to check this out:

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=1032&highlight=

Ironic isn't it?

Originally posted by "DaBouncer"

Lickszz I'm very impressed at the background you have checked upon in your responses.
There are a lot of factual comments that LouiseB and E-Man' have put forward, but I feel yours sum up the feeling that normal everyday British People (Black and White) feel about our immigration laws.

It is about time something is sorted on this issue!
The BNP do have a lot of good political objectives set out in their agenda!
The BNP also house a lot of hatred towards non-white British people which I feel needs to be addressed and brought into the 21st century!
It does sadden me that a political party like the BNP feels that it needs to go to such extremes, when it could gain more public support if it were to introduce black british people into the party.

'Illegal' immigrants are coming here in record numbers and we aren't doing a great deal to stop them.
We setup a hostel to house the illegal immigrants while they had their applications processed. What happened? They ran riot and burned it down!
It's true that there is a lot of hatred building towards these people because of the way they are coming here simply for our benefits.
Be it £35 per week or £150 per week (and having a relative working for the DWP... I should know).

What some people don't realise is that a lot of these illegal immigrants aren't trying to seek asylum... they are criminals in there own country and feel that the UK is a soft touch.

We are just fed up of taxes rising and rising and rising to pay for immigrants that shouldn't be here in the first place.
If they want to be part of the UK... play the game! Post a valid asylum claim and wait for the Government to evaluate it! Simple as that!

Thanks DaBouncer.

Those of us capable of getting to the nitty gritty of the thinking of this government are aware of the reason for the now URGENT debate on asylum seekers (or economic migrants)

Before the insurgence of the BNP into poiltics at local level, the government were to say the least, complacent.

Ecconomic migrants are now a 'Political issue' as opposed to an 'anti nazi' one. Anyone who mentioned immigrants in the commons was deemed, by nulabour, a nazi.

Strange how the electorate can (and will) sort out this appeasing regime.

We need to see those desiring sanctury get it. As well as those who enter legally. However, those out to enhance their lives at our expense are not (for me) welcome.

They should not be the subject of 'Targets' They should be on an aeroplane. Forthwith.

Anyone seen the news this morning about a british journalist who smuggled himself into britain and was granted asylum just by putting on a dodgy east european accent.

He was given free housing, food, travel expenses and home office ID.

Says it all really doesn't it, what a complete joke.

Originally posted by "steelblade"

Anyone seen the news this morning about a british journalist who smuggled himself into britain and was granted asylum just by putting on a dodgy east european accent.

He was given free housing, food, travel expenses and home office ID.

Says it all really doesn't it, what a complete joke.
Yeah... heard that on the radio..... makes me [censored] sick! :evil:

Morning everyone,

This thread is gonna run & run isn't it?

I didn't see/hear the story but I must ask, was the journalist really 'granted asylum' or was he granted permission to stay here to apply for asylum? (there is a difference).

However it has been my position throughout that it is probably desirable that immigration and asylum laws and procedures are tightened up to make it so that genuine immigrants and asylum seekers are welcomed but fradulent ones are not.

My difference with you guys is about the BNP. The above changes can be made without recourse to the bullyboy, hate-mongering and frankly frightening BNP. Tony Blair seems to be sensitive to media criticism. Perhaps stories like the one you mention will have the effect you desire and cause the government to address the concerns that you (and apparently many people like you) hold.

Surely that is reasonable?

Originally posted by "E-Man Groovin"

Tony Blair seems to be sensitive to media criticism. Perhaps stories like the one you mention will have the effect you desire and cause the government to address the concerns that you (and apparently many people like you) hold.

Surely that is reasonable?
Sounds good to me.
Genuin Asylum = fine with me.
Fraudulent Asylum = makes me VERY [censored] angry.

Too much of this debate is still about people taking on trust things they have heard third hand or read in a right wing newspaper and have believed. It is in the interest of the idealogical right to have people believe that we have a problem with immigration.

It is also easy and simple for that same press to manufacture scoops that dont exist, stories they have made up, doctor photos and etc. We all know this because periodically someone gets caught. Thankfully the media isnt all bad, but the bad ones, oh boy.

I remember in the 1987 General Election campaign one particular tabloid printing stories about loony Labour councils and grants to black lesbian societies, and demanding that black bin bags were renamed to avoid hurting feelings. In later years that tabloid admitting making up the stories, making up the name of the council, making up the name of a suitably barmy sounding social worker etc. They admitted printing stories that were deliberated devised to make readers think the worst.

So, unless it is the football results, think very carefully about everything you read - and that includes on here.

Incidentally Asylum Seekers are NOT given entertainment money. They are not given freebies, their rent is paid because they are on £35 a week, same as anyone else's would be. We only just scrapped the hated voucher scheme two years ago. I wish I could understand why ANYONE would think that ANY government would GIVE AND GIVE to refugees or asylum seekers when they are trying to stabilise the situation. WHO can possibly believe that our government is GIVING all this to people it would rather werent here? Wouldnt this just make more people come? Surely this alone tells you that it CANNOT be true? And that the urban myths about Next clothes and Cars are RUBBISH!

I do tell you as a fact, because I know it is a fact that we have NEVER bought a car for anyone on social security, white, black or otherwise. People on DLA can use their allowance to offset loan payments for a car, but that scheme, which has been running for 25 years, and has nothing to do with Asylum, is as close as it comes.

I dont know if any of them steal, as someone suggested, but I would say that as they are living on nowt and surrounded with western conspicious consumption, some theft would be inevitable.

One way to help the situation would be to encourage more people to take the work permit/economic migrancy route instead of having to say their lives were in danger elsewhere. Then, if they were accepted , they could find work and start contributing to the Chancellor's coffers so much more quickly.

I think the critics of economic migrancy think it means coming here to get benefits whereas it means coming to here to get work - like folks who emigrated to NZ or Aussie in years gone by. And let's face it we need them, we have a lot of unfilled posts, especially in the NHS. And you know as well as I do that they can then pay Tax and NI and contribute to the economy, rather than drawing from it.

Perhaps I need to show you some figures to prove some of this?


Louise

Louise do you work for the DWP or Jobcentre Plus or the Home Office?

No sorry
I am a caseworker/advice worker in south Sheffield

Addressed to Louise - or anyone else in the know?

Whats the situation at the post office then? In my local one (Firth Park) assylem seekers are taken tothe side whilst the rest of us have to queue. They get processed faster and many of them are wearing top designer brands and constantly have mobiles going off. Now what people do with their own money is their own business but its images like that which REALLY get up peoples noses. Also is there any correlation between increases in assylem seekers and reported violent crime. I presume the figures relate to periods before their arrival. Myself I'm all for a racial integrated britain irrespective of colour, religion or creed, it all adds to the variety of life, but lets have equality please.

Oh right... just thought you may have some first hand knowledge!

My brother works for the Home Office and his fiancee works for DWP.
He's told me that some of the asylum seekers do get living costs, however some are higher than others!

They are also entitled in incapacity benefit which is £90 per week (should they claim). I will ask about the car situation but I must say I haven't heard that one before.

LouiseB:
It is in the interest of the idealogical right to have people believe that we have a problem with immigration.

and it is in the interest of the idealogical left to have people believe that we DON'T have a problem with immigration....

Originally posted by "t020"

LouiseB:
It is in the interest of the idealogical right to have people believe that we have a problem with immigration.

and it is in the interest of the idealogical left to have people believe that we DON'T have a problem with immigration....

t020 Please justify this in the same way LouiseB has justified her position. Otherwise, it's just a statement and not an argument.

It is a bit of a bugger this one really but let me explain

People were complaining bitterly and loudly in Post Offices, and in writing, that they had to stand in queues behind Asylum Seekers, some with poor English, (at least when they first arrived), and that it was making them take ages and making them cross.

So then many Post Offices agreed to lump them together in a separate queue and spare people like you who frequent Post Offices from being stuck behind them.

Now people dont like that either - what can one do?

Mobile phones, pay-to-talk usually, are vital to Asylum Seekers who are alone and away from home. We would all want to spend some of our cash on a phone and a card if we were in another country, wouldnt we??

And then we come to clothing. What would you prefer? rags?
Tell yourself the truth - not me but yourself - what PRECISELY have you seen people wearing, people that you KNOW are asylum seekers (as opposed to UK born asians or black people in decent paid employment - and how would you know the difference without approaching them and asking them about their status incidentally?) Think about what you have seen them actually wear

For instance, I give a lot of my second hand clothes to the local drop-in centre for refugees to pick over. They might have a good charity shop near them, especially if they bus over to Hallam. They could be wearing imitations from the market....would you know a gucci from a chanel from Marks and Spencers? Because I am pretty sure i wouldnt, honestly I mean it.

I tell you again -

This government is not a bit generous with Asylum Seekers, it gives them hardly anything and sticks them in places like Park Hill where it is depressing and they might get attacked.

It is NOT generous and it is NOT paying for all sorts.

The reality is no TV - even if you could get someone to give you one, you couldnt pay the licence....

This is the reality, I could set you up a few homes visits if that would be useful?

A woman I met last week from Africa is having a baby next week, she has NO baby clothes....nothing to dress it in when it is born. This is the reality, not baby GAP.....I kid you not

Louise

Asylum Seekers are entitled to £35 a week

I keep saying this

They are not entitled to incapacity benefit

They are entitled to and get £35 a week

Your brother is perhaps thinking of people who have already had their cases heard and have been given "leave to remain" ie they have been able to prove that they are genuine.

Then they become as everyone else, and can claim as appropriate, and can start to work if they are able.

You only get incapacity benefit if you are unfit to work.

Asylum Seekers are not allowed to work, so they couldnt get sick pay...QED

Louise wrote - various

Arrgghhhhh - get the impression I'm in the wrong for daring to question your comments, What do I know about Asylum seekers personally. I know a fair bit about the people next door - the kids are great, the young adult is a tearaway and the parents well they are just glad to be safer. (Can't say its safe, as crime in my area is rife). The young adult (he's 16) is hanging around with a gang of others on the local shops of an evening and intidimates the local kids and other shop users. That is reality and its no wonder that people don't feel too happy about things. As for their homes, the people next door had a few problems with their new TV (they couldn't get it to tune in properly) and asked me to help, which I did. Turns out the remote was faulty so wouldn't tune - its now ok, so although a lot may have major problems when they first arrive here, it would be equally unfair to say that was always the case. Finally, they are car owners as we share a drive and I park at the side of it of an evening.
The PO issue has no answer, get them in the queue with everyone else perhaps? Segregating them does not work if your plan is winning over hearts and minds. Just read the 'Sun' spits story, its a bit ott but totally believable of customs if not immigration.

Dare I go on to suggest that the people next door are not in fact seeking asylum but have been accepted and given leave to remain?

I am only guessing but I would think they are now part of our regular society, able to find work if they wish etc - which Asylum Seekers are not

Anyway, I am glad you care enough to relate to them and with them

Lots of young lads are a PAIN IN THE ARSE wherever they come from, right?

I need to get some work done....LOL

Originally posted by "DaBouncer"

Anyone seen the news this morning about a british journalist who smuggled himself into britain and was granted asylum just by putting on a dodgy east european accent.

He was given free housing, food, travel expenses and home office ID.

Says it all really doesn't it, what a complete joke.
Yeah... heard that on the radio..... makes me [censored] sick! :evil:

As usual chaps, you got your facts wrong. The Sun journalist was not "granted asylum" as Steelblade suggested, he was granted leave to apply for asylum (see http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2003230223,00.html). How can the authorities evaluate whether someone is a genuine claimant or not without doing some investigation? This investigation takes time and cannot be done in five minutes at the border.

I'm not claiming to have all the answers, but if you guys are sincere about wanting to accept genuine asylum seekers (as opposed to bogus ones), then this is an issue that has to be tackled.

Like the intelligent and erudite LouiseB, I also have work to do and this debate is taking far too much of my time!

Have a good day all.

Actually to be fair.... are we going to change each others minds on this?
I'm still going to think that our laws are too soft on immigration, you are still going to think that they are fine.

Maybe an agree to disagree may be more appropraite?

Originally posted by "LouiseB"

Dare I go on to suggest that the people next door are not in fact seeking asylum but have been accepted and given leave to remain?

No they are still waiting to hear - its looking promising but they are still nervous about it


Anyway, I am glad you care enough to relate to them and with them


Never had a real problem with them, a few issues over parking early on - we live on a narrow road and everyone parks on one side of the road, they didn't realise this and caused a bit of uproar by double parking and blocking off the bin man :)


Lots of young lads are a PAIN IN THE ARSE wherever they come from, right?


and when we get older :))


I need to get some work done....LOL

ar yes, that was what I was supposed to be doing... <g>[/quote]

DaBouncer,

I kinda agree with you. All the main protagonists in this debate should all go to a pub and drink loads of pints and have a big argument about it. We'll all either end up best mates or have a huge fight. Actually if it turned nasty you'd probably win the punch-up DaBouncer as I am assuming from your name that you're probably quite a big geezer!

Right. I'm going to try my best to keep away from this discussion....

:?

Originally posted by "E-Man Groovin"

DaBouncer,

I kinda agree with you. All the main protagonists in this debate should all go to a pub and drink loads of pints and have a big argument about it. We'll all either end up best mates or have a huge fight. Actually if it turned nasty you'd probably win the punch-up DaBouncer as I am assuming from your name that you're probably quite a big geezer!

Right. I'm going to try my best to keep away from this discussion....

:?
LOL... being a 'Big Geezer' doesn't make you anymore likely to win a fight. I may have a height and build advantage, but don't judge a book by its cover as they say.

I hope I haven't painted the wrong picture of myself in this thread.
I'm very much unhappy at the way my country is getting exploited by 'bogus' asylum seekers and illegal immigrants, but I don't dislike and infact welcome the geniun ones.
I don't in any way want the BNP to ever gain power, but I do however agree with 'some' of their policies (if only a regular government could adopt some).

I work with a lot of mixed ethnicity colleagues, both in my day job and evening. Some of my best friends aren't white so I hope I'm not painting a picture of prejudice.

I wish for better things from my future governement and am happy living in a multi-cultural environment... it's all I've really known and all I'd like to.

I am now retiring from this debate (thank **** for that I can hear some saying :lol: )

at the end of the day, i don't come across asylum seekers every day so i dont care too much about whether they should be here or not. i do feel sorry though for people that have to live alongside them, knowing what they worked hard for, the asylum seekers have got for nothing. also, im FED up of the amount of left wing liberal tree huggers there are, and the fact that they think everything they say is RIGHT. they wouldn't be saying that if this country's economy totally collapsed as a result of people such as asylum seekers and single mums being too much of a burden on society. if they had their way, we'd be paying 80% income tax on earnings over 30k and it would all be subsidising the poor and asylum seekers. thank god that new labour are probably now right of centre, otherwise we'd be in the state we were left in by old labour in the 70s.

The papers have been quite strong in their attacks again today.

The Mail reports that asylum gangs are responsible for crime increases.

The Sun got one of it's reporters to make a bogus asylum claim to show how easy it is. I quote the article:

A FAKE East European accent and bogus name were all it took for me to get state handouts only FOUR HOURS after making a bogus asylum claim.

A string of officials were taken in by my pretence to be a Moldovan refugee.

They made no attempt to check the personal details I had made up for my application under the name Anatoly Tal.

And, alarmingly, I was not searched thoroughly or made to undergo medical checks.

Yet I was given free housing, food, travel and an ID card confirming I was asylum seeker IFB03/052194/X.



Whether it is the fault of the asylum seekers or not, or just newspaper sensationalism, it just adds fuel to the BNP's beliefs and increases anger and decreases tolerance from British Nationals.

Originally posted by "LouiseB"

Asylum Seekers are entitled to £35 a week

I keep saying this

They are not entitled to incapacity benefit

They are entitled to and get £35 a week

Your brother is perhaps thinking of people who have already had their cases heard and have been given "leave to remain" ie they have been able to prove that they are genuine.

Then they become as everyone else, and can claim as appropriate, and can start to work if they are able.

You only get incapacity benefit if you are unfit to work.

Asylum Seekers are not allowed to work, so they couldnt get sick pay...QED

LouiseB.

You keep mentioning this £35 a week. I ask again, how much do unemployed/penioners receive. What about other living costs, IE bills/rates

As usual chaps, you got your facts wrong. The Sun journalist was not "granted asylum" as Steelblade suggested, he was granted leave to apply for asylum (see http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2003230223,00.html). How can the authorities evaluate whether someone is a genuine claimant or not without doing some investigation? This investigation takes time and cannot be done in five minutes at the border.

I'm not claiming to have all the answers, but if you guys are sincere about wanting to accept genuine asylum seekers (as opposed to bogus ones), then this is an issue that has to be tackled.



Yes, most of them are economic migrants, but on arrival in the UK these people say they are fleeing oppression and claim asylum. They are therefore asylum seekers until their claims can be shown to be false. Unfortunately it is extremely difficult to separate the genuine asylum seekers from the false as unscrupulous lawyers make fortunes out of exploiting every loophole and using every trick in the book to defend even the most preposterous of claims, with appeal after appeal being launched to enable false claimants to remain in this country at our expense for years before their claim for asylum is finally turned down. The resulting shambles has led to the present situation where hundreds of thousands of asylum seekers/illegal immigrants have settled here illegally, confident that they will never be thrown out, while another 100,000 plus will be added to their number every year for the foreseeable future.

Originally posted by "LouiseB"


I remember in the 1987 General Election campaign one particular tabloid printing stories about loony Labour councils and grants to black lesbian societies, and demanding that black bin bags were renamed to avoid hurting feelings. In later years that tabloid admitting making up the stories, making up the name of the council, making up the name of a suitably barmy sounding social worker etc. They admitted printing stories that were deliberated devised to make readers think the worst.


One way to help the situation would be to encourage more people to take the work permit/economic migrancy route instead of having to say their lives were in danger elsewhere. Then, if they were accepted , they could find work and start contributing to the Chancellor's coffers so much more quickly.



The benefits system in this country should be for those who have contributed towards it.

Those who come fully prepared to take advantage of the financial protection this affords the contributors, should have a seperate means of sustenance totally divorced from the existing.

To appeal against deportation should not be financed by us but by them. It is their decision to illegally enter this country.

Failure to meet this criteria should spell instant banishment.

This accommodates the oppressed, as if they are accepted as fleeing persecution or a bad regime, they will be accepted as such, and have no need to appeal, they will be safe and sound, become eligble to work and subsiquently slot into our benefits system.

This, over and above 'legal' and welcome entrants who apply in the correct manner.

You mention the work permit route. This is going to become inevitable, Blair and Plunkett have the answer to meet their OFFICIAL targets FIDDLE THE FIGURES.

To reduce the number of asylum-seekers, they are allegedly planning to con us all by calling tens of thousands Work Permit Holders instead to keep them out of the asylum-seekers statistics. How else is Blair going to half this influx without upsetting PC's, the Liberalist's and the Immigration lawyers.

You don't have to go back as far as 1987 it's a frequent trend.

PC Has done more to destroy our heritage in this country than any other single contributory factor. In NO other country do they legislate against the indigenous population for fear of offending immigrants and tourists! We have a great wealth of history [No longer taught in mainstream education for PC reasons] and cultural traditions. All of which we are told are totally unacceptable in a PC environment. Legislation is passed to favour ethnic minorities and all manner of issues that the sensible majority find abhorrent. The education and upbringing of our children has been modified to PC standards with the resultant total breakdown of discipline that leaves many children believing that they are entitled to take what ever they want from society with impunity. The age of Male anal intercourse is lowered for solely PC reasons against the wishes of the majority of parents. History [as stated] is NOT taught in mainstream education but Homosexuality IS!

The momentum for PC indoctrination in this country continues apace with our adoption at the insistence of Blair and his ‘Queen of PC’ wife. Blair’s insistence on the introduction of the PC charter from Europe, the so-called “Human Rights acts” has enshrined the PC subversive thinking into legislation that curtails common sense by legislative procedure against those who disagree. Factually this raft of legislation has nothing to do with ‘Human Rights’. It is the platform on which modern PC thinking is not only based but also enforced upon a mainly unsuspecting public.

PC Is the cancer that will one day finally destroy the proud heritage of our country and our way of life if we don’t act now and remove it from our daily lives.

No more 'Bah Bah Black Sheep' - offensive to persons of African origin.
No more 'Four And Twenty Black Birds' - for the same reasons.
No more 'Jack And Jill' - offensive to homosexuals

With regards to Bah Bah Black Sheep. As far as I am aware schools in Sheffield and Rotherham haven't been able to sing this song for many years. A child of a family friend once came home from nursery with a letter stating that the above mentioned song had been banned and the word black would be substituted, parents who allowed their child to sing the initial song could be reported to the race unit of the council and their child removed from school.

In Sheffield there are two major football teams with great rivalry between both teams with each side calling fans of the other side 'pigs'.

Apparently Sheffield City Council once tried to get this banned and threatened prosecution of the two football clubs. They said that it was offensive to Muslims. The council rightly failed after the leader of Sheffield's Muslims told the council that nowhere in the Koran does it say that the word pig cannot be used, it says that Muslims must not eat pig products but are not forbidden to say and hear the word.

The PC flip flop brigade in this country are going to force people in underground domes. So that they can have a decent conversation without fear of offending anyone. I'm afraid this is England, we speak English and if people are offended by what they may hear or do actually hear then they should go home. I am not an attorney to any racial abuse. The colour of a skin does not matter, but to cater to people because of their skin colour does.

Now who is living in a dream world

Lies, lies and more lies

I bet you cant prove a word of that without using phrases like
"a friend of a friend's school age child?" etc

You either made it all up or else you mix in strange circles where other people make it all up

Homophobic, fascist rubbish

I wont use worse words because they wont get printed

None of those examples are true

But if this is the level of discourse this Forum is now managing and allowing to be displayed, stuff that is libellous as well as being grossly offensive, then I might not want to be a part of it any more.