Does anybody else think that Mr Cameron is just clutching at straws and really has no idea which direction to go in?? Again possibly going to make a laughing stock out of the conservatives!!

There is nothing he can do that could be worse than Blair surely? The man's a proven liar, failed on virtually every election promise, involved us in an obviously illegal war, spent the wealth generated in the Thatcher years, and is now dismantling the freedoms that make our country great in the first place.
Since neither have any training to actually govern anyway, short of raping the queen live on BBC News, I fail to see how Cameron or anyone could do worse.
Not knowing which way to go...... New Labour *is* the conservative party these days, no wonder there's confusion when both parties effectively stand for the same thing! The Labour Party doesn't exist anymore in anything more than name.

Well, he's wisely keeping his cards close to his chest, isn't he?

Any vote winner (so far from an election) presents Tony's cronies with a chance to hijack them and call them their own. He's not daft!

But as a Tory myself, I'm not sure at all where the party's headed and it does concern me. He distanced the party from SME businesses which is not a good move for me personally.

In fact, lately, I've listened to some politicians on Radio 4 (Today, usually) and struggled to differentiate whether they're representing Labour or Tory. In wishing to move Conservative into the central ground (ie, where Labour are) all Cameron seems to be doing is creating an almost mirror-image to the Labour party.

The electorate deserves better than this.

There is nothing he can do that could be worse than Blair surely? The man's a proven liar, failed on virtually every election promise,

Hmmm. Nobody recalls the Tories promising us 3 million plus unemployed despite 20 dole fiddles back in 1979. Their slogan was "Labour isn't working", and we remember Thatcher quoting St Francis of Assisi .. "Where there is discord, may we bring harmony. Where there is error, may we bring truth. Where there is doubt, may we bring faith. And where there is despair, may we bring hope." She brought discord, error, doubt and despair by the skipful.

involved us in an obviously illegal war

Sentiments like that are the reason why Islamic terrorists think we're a pushover here in the West. We have destroyed 40,000 of those sods who would saw off your head in a heartbeat. Do you honestly think Bin Laden gave a damn as to whether the 911 atrocity was illegal or not? Do you believe the Isamists think for one second that even one of their 6,000-plus terrorist atrocities carried out worldwide - yes worldwide - in the 61 months since 911 itself are illegal, or those carried out in the 22 years before 911 - a period where we constantly turned the other cheek when Islamists murdered Western troops and citizens, and in doing so, the terrorists and the regimes which supported and supplied them became convinced for the first time in 300 years that we were a bunch of spineless weaklings who were there for the taking? Making up similar excuses for doing nothing when something should have been done 70 years ago gave us a war which resulted in 60 million deaths. Still, you confirm the following what Churchill said in 1935 about the careless neglect that gave us World War II thus: "When the situation was manageable it was neglected, and now that it is thoroughly out of hand we apply too late the remedies which then might have effected a cure. There is nothing new in the story. It is as old as the sibylline books. It falls into that long, dismal catalogue of the fruitlessness of experience and the confirmed unteachability of mankind. Want of foresight, unwillingness to act when action would be simple and effective, lack of clear thinking, confusion of counsel until the emergency comes, until self-preservation strikes its jarring gong, these are the features which constitute the endless repetition of history."

spent the wealth generated in the Thatcher years,

What wealth was generated in the Thatcher years? All I saw were mass unemployment, soaring poverty, crumbling cities, schools with leaking roofs, hospital cuts and record suicides, and those riots in Liverpool and Brixton. Oh and crime did double in Thatcher's first five years to levels higher than what we see today.

and is now dismantling the freedoms that make our country great in the first place.

And under Thatcher, fighting to keep your job was deemed illegal.

Since neither have any training to actually govern anyway, short of raping the queen live on BBC News, I fail to see how Cameron or anyone could do worse.

If Camerons idea of running a country is hugging a hoodie, then God help us.

Not knowing which way to go...... New Labour *is* the conservative party these days, no wonder there's confusion when both parties effectively stand for the same thing! The Labour Party doesn't exist anymore in anything more than name.

Typical bull from the type who holler war criminal epithets at Bush and Blair from a megaphone in the middle of town on Saturday afternoon, though these same scruffs see Ahmadinejad, whose desire is to create a second Holocaust and Hizbollah as freedom fighters (whose freedom do they fight for?) and the new Che Guevara. Still, these poltroons go out of their way to prove that there's something worse in town than a pigeon which craps on your head.

There is nothing he can do that could be worse than Blair surely? The man's a proven liar, failed on virtually every election promise, involved us in an obviously illegal war,





Can I just remind all the Conservative Voters, whenever they churn out the 'he took us into war blah blah blah.....'

The Then Conservative Leader, Ian Duncan Smith saw exactly the same evidence as Tony Blair, after seeing the evidence, gave his full backing.

If the Torys want to oppose the war, I feel they are little late to do that.

Oh finally

Where exactly do they stand on Europe ?

The Tories make me sick. I'm suprised they still have the energy to climb on the next bandwagon.

Vote Lib Dem I say.

The Tories make me sick. I'm suprised they still have the energy to climb on the next bandwagon.

Vote Lib Dem I say.:hihi:



Vote Lib Dem-give over

You have more chance of finding rocking horse poo on the moon than Lib Dems forming a government

Te lack of a credible oppositon puts New Labour in a good position, unfortunately. Similar to that that the Tories were in in 1987(??) when they were in power and not amazingly popular but with an opposition party ('Old' Labour) that was still trying to sort tself out.

In other words, brace yourself for 4 more years of the same old crap with a differently named leader. :)

There is nothing he can do that could be worse than Blair surely? The man's a proven liar, failed on virtually every election promise,

Hmmm. Nobody recalls the Tories promising us 3 million plus unemployed despite 20 dole fiddles back in 1979. Their slogan was "Labour isn't working", and we remember Thatcher quoting St Francis of Assisi .. "Where there is discord, may we bring harmony. Where there is error, may we bring truth. Where there is doubt, may we bring faith. And where there is despair, may we bring hope." She brought discord, error, doubt and despair by the skipful.

involved us in an obviously illegal war

Sentiments like that are the reason why Islamic terrorists think we're a pushover here in the West. We have destroyed 40,000 of those sods who would saw off your head in a heartbeat. Do you honestly think Bin Laden gave a damn as to whether the 911 atrocity was illegal or not? Do you believe the Isamists think for one second that even one of their 6,000-plus terrorist atrocities carried out worldwide - yes worldwide - in the 61 months since 911 itself are illegal, or those carried out in the 22 years before 911 - a period where we constantly turned the other cheek when Islamists murdered Western troops and citizens, and in doing so, the terrorists and the regimes which supported and supplied them became convinced for the first time in 300 years that we were a bunch of spineless weaklings who were there for the taking? Making up similar excuses for doing nothing when something should have been done 70 years ago gave us a war which resulted in 60 million deaths. Still, you confirm the following what Churchill said in 1935 about the careless neglect that gave us World War II thus: "When the situation was manageable it was neglected, and now that it is thoroughly out of hand we apply too late the remedies which then might have effected a cure. There is nothing new in the story. It is as old as the sibylline books. It falls into that long, dismal catalogue of the fruitlessness of experience and the confirmed unteachability of mankind. Want of foresight, unwillingness to act when action would be simple and effective, lack of clear thinking, confusion of counsel until the emergency comes, until self-preservation strikes its jarring gong, these are the features which constitute the endless repetition of history."

spent the wealth generated in the Thatcher years,

What wealth was generated in the Thatcher years? All I saw were mass unemployment, soaring poverty, crumbling cities, schools with leaking roofs, hospital cuts and record suicides, and those riots in Liverpool and Brixton. Oh and crime did double in Thatcher's first five years to levels higher than what we see today.

and is now dismantling the freedoms that make our country great in the first place.

And under Thatcher, fighting to keep your job was deemed illegal.

Since neither have any training to actually govern anyway, short of raping the queen live on BBC News, I fail to see how Cameron or anyone could do worse.

If Camerons idea of running a country is hugging a hoodie, then God help us.

Not knowing which way to go...... New Labour *is* the conservative party these days, no wonder there's confusion when both parties effectively stand for the same thing! The Labour Party doesn't exist anymore in anything more than name.

Typical bull from the type who holler war criminal epithets at Bush and Blair from a megaphone in the middle of town on Saturday afternoon, though these same scruffs see Ahmadinejad, whose desire is to create a second Holocaust and Hizbollah as freedom fighters (whose freedom do they fight for?) and the new Che Guevara. Still, these poltroons go out of their way to prove that there's something worse in town than a pigeon which craps on your head.

People said the same about labour in 1997 - "everyone will go on strike again","they will wreck the economy again". But in the end though theywere not the same as 1970s labour. So what is different about the reborn tories? Maybe there is something different and you are right we should not trust them, but I dont see it.

I saw an interview on TV last week in which Oliver Letwin appeared to be saying that they would do more for the poor than Labour have done, by relying more on charities and volunteers rather than paying people a wage for the work. This seems to me to be a step back in time. Although I'm not surprised that the Tories would want to go back to Dickens' times, I'm surprised at them admitting to it!

I was reading a little CS Lewis the other day and encountered this comment :

"It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies."

having experienced the former between 1979 and 1997, and the latter between 1997 and the present day, I'm hard pressed to decide which I prefer.

I saw the communities in which I was bought up destroyed under the Tories, with some erosion of personal liberty, and a continuation of that erosion under New Labour, who also bought an arrogance and a 'nanny knows best' attitude to most aspects of our lives.

We NEED a strong and capable opposition; the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats owe it to the country to get their acts together and provide it some degree of challenge so that New Labour are forced to listen to the voices opposing them.

I was reading a little CS Lewis the other day and encountered this comment :

"It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies."

having experienced the former between 1979 and 1997, and the latter between 1997 and the present day, I'm hard pressed to decide which I prefer.

I saw the communities in which I was bought up destroyed under the Tories, with some erosion of personal liberty, and a continuation of that erosion under New Labour, who also bought an arrogance and a 'nanny knows best' attitude to most aspects of our lives.

We NEED a strong and capable opposition; the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats owe it to the country to get their acts together and provide it some degree of challenge so that New Labour are forced to listen to the voices opposing them.

We like to grumble at the Governement that goes with the territory but if 'Sunshine Dave' gets into power we will certainly see a difference.

The analogy with the USA is striking. When Clinton left office the US was creating jobs, introduced postive social/educational programmes, attained low inflation and had almost zero national debt, the first time since 1837.

After Clinton, Bush and the Republicans immediately gave a tax break to the rich and to pay for taxation cuts they slashed social funding, borrowed heavily from abroad. Unemployment increased, national debt at record levels, the house market froze, climbing inflation/mortgage rates and embroiled Britain in two disasterous wars abroad.

Cameron will do the same on economic policy. Tax breaks for the rich and cuts in public spending on key services...they will chip away at the SOCIAL GLUE of our society again

They will centrally starve the NHS of money, forcing Trusts to go increasingly to private finance (more than the 10% currently allowed), who eventually will start to call the shots.....which means having to charge people for medical services. This privatisation by stealth will allow the Tories to claim that the decision to charge for medical services were local decisions made by the local community.

The Tories have no policy on Europe and are against any social legislation that will improve workers rights. They want the business side but they reject their social responsibilities. They voted against the minimum wage, increased maternity leave, paternity leave...you name it they opposed it.

Going around this city at the moment there seems to be a lot of rebuilding going on: new primary schools, new secondary schools, hospital wings, doctors surgeries, businesses, factories...anyone remember that happening between 1979 - 1997? All I remember were demolition gangs in Sheffield during that era.

By the way, you can choose to ignore a busybody;)

I was reading a little CS Lewis the other day and encountered this comment :

"It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies."

having experienced the former between 1979 and 1997, and the latter between 1997 and the present day, I'm hard pressed to decide which I prefer.

I saw the communities in which I was bought up destroyed under the Tories, with some erosion of personal liberty, and a continuation of that erosion under New Labour, who also bought an arrogance and a 'nanny knows best' attitude to most aspects of our lives.

We NEED a strong and capable opposition; the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats owe it to the country to get their acts together and provide it some degree of challenge so that New Labour are forced to listen to the voices opposing them.


Great comment JoeP. Fully agree.

Hmmm. Nobody recalls the Tories promising us 3 million plus unemployed despite 20 dole fiddles back in 1979. Their slogan was "Labour isn't working", and we remember Thatcher quoting St Francis of Assisi .. "Where there is discord, may we bring harmony. Where there is error, may we bring truth. Where there is doubt, may we bring faith. And where there is despair, may we bring hope." She brought discord, error, doubt and despair by the skipful.


The figures are largely the same now! ~2million unemployed, and another million employed to do nothing in local government. Totally unsustainable, and also a fiddle of the figures. Hence 30,000 DHSS staff can be let go, with no loss of service. They've got 3 people in every department doing the job of 1!

"She brought discord, error, doubt and despair by the skipful."

Change the She to He and it seems to hold true for Blair!.


involved us in an obviously illegal war

Sentiments like that are the reason why Islamic terrorists think we're a pushover here in the West. We have destroyed 40,000 of those sods who would saw off your head in a heartbeat.


Except we didn't since *THEY* weren't actually in Iraq (until we destablised the country).

[other nonsense snipped]


spent the wealth generated in the Thatcher years,

What wealth was generated in the Thatcher years?


The wealth that Brown has used to implement his spending policies, and has now started to run out. By the time another party gets into power it'll be gone (just like it was when Thatcher came to power), and they'll have to make hard choices (as Thatcher did) to bring the country back from it's knees.



All I saw were mass unemployment, soaring poverty, crumbling cities, schools with leaking roofs, hospital cuts and record suicides, and those riots in Liverpool and Brixton. Oh and crime did double in Thatcher's first five years to levels higher than what we see today.


See "Hard Choices" above.


and is now dismantling the freedoms that make our country great in the first place.

And under Thatcher, fighting to keep your job was deemed illegal.


And under Blair the right to privacy will be, your point?



Since neither have any training to actually govern anyway, short of raping the queen live on BBC News, I fail to see how Cameron or anyone could do worse.

If Camerons idea of running a country is hugging a hoodie, then God help us.


If god had anything to do with it we'd be in a much worse situation. Again, your point?


Typical bull from the type who holler war criminal epithets at Bush and Blair from a megaphone in the middle of town on Saturday afternoon, though these same scruffs see Ahmadinejad, whose desire is to create a second Holocaust and Hizbollah as freedom fighters (whose freedom do they fight for?) and the new Che Guevara. Still, these poltroons go out of their way to prove that there's something worse in town than a pigeon which craps on your head.

Now THAT *is* total bull. Creating a stereotype and assuming I fit is the only way to backup your point of view. Somewhat desperate. I don't know anyone who wouldn't regard Ahmadinejad as a hillbilly loon, so again, your point?

It's not a wild stretch of the imagination to see why some people might think of "Hizbollah as freedom fighters", though I see you're obviously biased beyond any reasonable thought on the matter.


Save Israel


You seem to be under the false impression that I'm somehow advocating the Conservatives or Cameron (or anyone else for that matter), untrue. I'm merely saying that we simply could not do worse than we have done with Blair.