I find the timing of this latest report far too convenient, or am I just being too cynical?

Tony Blair finally says he is going, & is obviously looking to try & get his place in the history books for something other than being Dubya's poodle, & lo & behold, within a couple of weeks he's announcing that the "IRA campaign is over" (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/5407646.stm) & that "We are satisfied that the arms decommissioned represent the totality of the IRA's arsenal."

It was reported over a year ago (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4283444.stm) that "The IRA has put all of its weapons beyond use", & all of a sudden Tony seems to be all eager to associate himself with it.

Well gee, thanks Tone.

I think he's talking about the 12th IMC report - released in the last few days

PIRA has taken further steps to run down its terrorist capability. It has
disbanded “military” structures, including the General Headquarters
departments responsible for procurement, engineering and training, and it has
stood down volunteers and stopped allowances. Continuing inactivity itself
leads to further erosion of capability
...
The leadership continues to instruct members not to use physical force,
whether for the purposes of community discipline or any other reason. When,
in response to pressure from within the community to deal with anti-social
behaviour, permission to do so has been sought, it has been denied. We think
that with a very small number of exceptions the leadership has been successful in checking violence by members
...
The leadership has maintained a firm stance against the involvement of
members in criminality, although this does not mean that criminal activity by all
members has stopped. The leadership’s stance has included public
statements and internal directions; investigating incidents of breach of the
policy; the expulsion of some members; and emphasising the importance of
ensuring that business affairs are conducted in a legitimate manner
etc.

I wonder how much credit the late Mo Mowlam will be given in the annals of history to this peace process? Or will it all be a Blair-Mandleson production?

Mr Blair is clearly becoming a great statesmen and doing statesmanlike things on the TV. Narrow minded people might think he is lining himself up for his next job which may be EU President, World President, King or some other similar role.

having just moved from belfast to sheffield i can safely tell you that that terrorist campaign is over but invovlement in other criminal activity such as cigerette smuggleing etc is still on going but the days of ira bombings are over

having just moved from belfast to sheffield i can safely tell you that that terrorist campaign is over but invovlement in other criminal activity such as cigerette smuggleing etc is still on going but the days of ira bombings are over

The IRA have always been gangsters. Unfortunately the situation allowed them to pretend to be an army and even get money from stupid people in New York. Now they can't pretend to be an Army they are only left with those elements of organised crime that don't involve anyone getting on national news (aside from the odd bank job of course).

The IRA have always been gangsters. Unfortunately the situation allowed them to pretend to be an army and even get money from stupid people in New York. Now they can't pretend to be an Army they are only left with those elements of organised crime that don't involve anyone getting on national news (aside from the odd bank job of course).

Sorry KenH, but I disagree. Forced into being gangsters, yes. But gangsters, no. Originally the Irish Revolutionary Army wanted to give Ireland back to the Irish. To do that they need weapons to fight the British Army, and to buy weapons they needed money.

There are several ways of getting money. They could ask for subscriptions from members and supporters, but that would take time and effort which would quickly become public. The easier way was to ‘take’ money, thus leaving officialdom to figure out a motive.

They succeeded in giving Eire back to the Irish, and lost quite a few well-known and not so well-known figures in the process. That, in my opinion, makes them freedom fighters who did their job efficiently. The British took Ireland — the IRA got most of it back! They did it in their own way, at their own pace — but they did it!

Another New labour lie :rant:

Blair and his cronies should visit Cluan place in Belfast or the Fountaine estate in Londonderry and then see if they think the IRA campaign is over .
The violence in these and many other interface areas is orchestrated by
SeinFain / IRA , Gerry and Martin might be having sandwiches in Downing street with Blair but their supporters are continuing their terror campaign .

Another New labour lie :rant:

Blair and his cronies should visit Cluan place in Belfast or the Fountaine estate in Londonderry and then see if they think the IRA campaign is over .
The violence in these and many other interface areas is orchestrated by
SeinFain / IRA , Gerry and Martin might be having sandwiches in Downing street with Blair but their supporters are continuing their terror campaign .
Have you any evidence for this VARB?

having just moved from belfast to sheffield i can safely tell you that that terrorist campaign is over but invovlement in other criminal activity such as cigerette smuggleing etc is still on going but the days of ira bombings are over

The " bombing " that makes the news might be , I was in Belfast for a family celebration a couple of weeks ago and the signs of pertol bombings and damage done by rocks in some areas is still all to visable . This low level terror campaign is ignored by the media and Westminster who like to pretend that the IRA have stopped terrorist activity .

The " bombing " that makes the news might be , I was in Belfast for a family celebration a couple of weeks ago and the signs of pertol bombings and damage done by rocks in some areas is still all to visable . This low level terror campaign is ignored by the media and Westminster who like to pretend that the IRA have stopped terrorist activity .


Oh come on, the last serious rioting - and it was among the worst there has been - was in Loyalist areas, and included firing guns at the police (When Nationalists do that it's usually called a terrorist attack) but there have been no action taken against partys connected with Loyalist paramilitarys, and little was made of Paisley's stance of justifying the rioters.

If Gerry Adam's had taken that stance over such serious disturbances it would have been a completely different story. The truth is that Ian Paisley and other hardline Unionists would be like fish out of water if there was peace in Northern Ireland. That is now the main obstacle to progress, not Republican violence.

Sorry KenH, but I disagree. Forced into being gangsters, yes. But gangsters, no. Originally the Irish Revolutionary Army wanted to give Ireland back to the Irish. To do that they need weapons to fight the British Army, and to buy weapons they needed money.

There are several ways of getting money. They could ask for subscriptions from members and supporters, but that would take time and effort which would quickly become public. The easier way was to ‘take’ money, thus leaving officialdom to figure out a motive.

They succeeded in giving Eire back to the Irish, and lost quite a few well-known and not so well-known figures in the process. That, in my opinion, makes them freedom fighters who did their job efficiently. The British took Ireland — the IRA got most of it back! They did it in their own way, at their own pace — but they did it!


I can see you haven't been, or if you have then you kept rose tinted spectacles on the entire time. I really don't care how it all started years ago, but the current crop who have been involved in terrorism in the last 30 years are gangsters. Had there not have been a "war" to justify what they do, then they would do it anyway. At the moment they are limiting themsleves to all the sorts of crimes that other organised criminal gangs in the UK do.

I can see you haven't been, or if you have then you kept rose tinted spectacles on the entire time. I really don't care how it all started years ago, but the current crop who have been involved in terrorism in the last 30 years are gangsters. Had there not have been a "war" to justify what they do, then they would do it anyway. At the moment they are limiting themsleves to all the sorts of crimes that other organised criminal gangs in the UK do.

It's interesting to see you have better inside information on what the Provo's are currently up to the Independent Monitoring Commission.

Would you care to name the source, as I'd like to pass it on to the IMO so they can be a bit more up to date.

Have you any evidence for this VARB?

http://www.residentgroups.fsnet.co.uk/claunplacepics.htm

Theres now a bench in Cluan Place dedicated to an old lady called Annie Blair who refused to be intimidated out by these terrorists , how ironic when her namesake was sitting safe in downing street talking to Gerry and co while SeinFain / IRA supporters were trying to bomb and burn out a community simply because their British .

http://www.residentgroups.fsnet.co.uk/claunplacepics.htm

Theres now a bench in Cluan Place dedicated to an old lady called Annie Blair who refused to be intimidated out by these terrorists , how ironic when her namesake was sitting safe in downing street talking to Gerry and co while SeinFain / IRA supporters were trying to bomb and burn out a community simply because their British .

When I said 'evidence' I meant independent, impartial evidence. You've posted a link to what is clearly a Loyalist website. How unlike you.

http://www.residentgroups.fsnet.co.uk/claunplacepics.htm

Theres now a bench in Cluan Place dedicated to an old lady called Annie Blair who refused to be intimidated out by these terrorists , how ironic when her namesake was sitting safe in downing street talking to Gerry and co while SeinFain / IRA supporters were trying to bomb and burn out a community simply because their British .

Sectarian attacks from 1 to 30 June 2002In East Belfast, attacks continued from the loyalist Cluan Place into ... The Short Strand Residents Group held a march and rally, called to "End the Siege ...
www.serve.com/pfc/sattacks/june02att.html - 43k - Cached - Similar pages


Is this your 'proof' A group of people - some of whom have themselves been involved in sectarian violence against their Catholic neighbours - have been burned out of their houses.

People in both communities are and have been burned out of their houses for decades, as well you must be aware if you visit Belfast. It hardly needs IRA direction to make a petrol bomb and lob it at a house. Any biggoted little twerp could do it.

When I said 'evidence' I meant independent, impartial evidence. You've posted a link to what is clearly a Loyalist website. How unlike you.

And how unlike you :hihi: are the picture fake ? just because it's a Loyalist site does that discredit the evidence ?
Get of the net every now and then open your eyes .

And how unlike you :hihi: are the picture fake ? just because it's a Loyalist site does that discredit the evidence ?
Get of the net every now and then open your eyes .

Does the fact that I've posted a link - which you've cunningly ignored - showing that some of the 'Cluan Residents' have been involved in sectarian violece discredit their evidence. Maybe not in your head, but in a court of law..

Does the fact that I've posted a link - which you've cunningly ignored - showing that some of the 'Cluan Residents' have been involved in sectarian violece discredit their evidence. Maybe not in your head, but in a court of law..

Dont be so touchy just because I've not mentioned your link doesn't mean I've ignored it :hihi:

Dont be so touchy just because I've not mentioned your link doesn't mean I've ignored it :hihi:

Very good, but it still doesn't answer the question.

Is this your 'proof' A group of people - some of whom have themselves been involved in sectarian violence against their Catholic neighbours - have been burned out of their houses.

People in both communities are and have been burned out of their houses for decades, as well you must be aware if you visit Belfast. It hardly needs IRA direction to make a petrol bomb and lob it at a house. Any biggoted little twerp could do it.


And what proof do you have that residents have been involved in sectarian attacks ? and even if some had does this make burning OAPs and hard working familys out . Your trying but your twisted logic could lead to BIG trouble if it caught on here on the mainland .

Yes people in both communitys have been subjected to these attacks but it show your lack of knowlage to suggest any biggoted little twerp could do it these things are usualy on both sides sanctioned by the paramilitarys .

Very good, but it still doesn't answer the question.

Just what question ?

And what proof do you have that residents have been involved in sectarian attacks ?

Well the attacks were launched from their housing estate.

and even if some had does this make burning OAPs and hard working familys out .[I]

I never said it did, I am and always have been against all sectarian attacks.

Your trying but your twisted logic could lead to BIG trouble if it caught on here on the mainland .

I've no idea what you mean by this.

Yes people in both communitys have been subjected to these attacks but it show your lack of knowlage to suggest any biggoted little twerp could do it these things are usualy on both sides sanctioned by the paramilitarys [

I used to work for a newspaper in Belfast, and have covered riots and sectarian attacks - so much for my lack of knowledge. I don't see how you could possibly know the IRA sanctions these attacks. Heresay in Loyalist areas isn't exactly the same thing as facts.

I used to work for a newspaper in Belfast, and have covered riots and sectarian attacks - so much for my lack of knowledge. I don't see how you could possibly know the IRA sanctions these attacks. Heresay in Loyalist areas isn't exactly the same thing as facts.


Ok your saying campaigns of terror that last months involving people being shot and hundreds of petrol bombs throw arn't santioned by the IRA it's just heresay in Loyalist areas :loopy: :loopy:

And what proof do you have that residents have been involved in sectarian attacks ? [I]

Well the attacks were launched from their housing estate.



Brilliant :rolleyes: must be proof it was the residents :loopy:

I never said it did, I am and always have been against all sectarian attacks.





"A group of people - some of whom have themselves been involved in sectarian violence against their Catholic neighbours - have been burned out of their houses" from your original post , reads more like your justifying the attacks than condeming all sectarian attacks .

Ok your saying campaigns of terror that last months involving people being shot and hundreds of petrol bombs throw arn't santioned by the IRA it's just heresay in Loyalist areas :loopy: :loopy:

Look, what's your evidence. The only thing you've come up with so far is a Loyalist website with a sectarian mural as it's logo, based in a housing estate from which years of attacks on the neighbouring Catholic areas have been launched . That would ammount to heresay in Loyalist areas.

"A group of people - some of whom have themselves been involved in sectarian violence against their Catholic neighbours - have been burned out of their houses" from your original post , reads more like your justifying the attacks than condeming all sectarian attacks .

Yes, it can be made to look like that when taken out of context.
The point I was making was that a Loyalist housing association - from a housing estate where for years attacks have been launched against Catholic neighbours, and vice versa - is hardly a credible or impartial link to post to back up your arguments.