What's the difference (is there a difference) between post-natal depression and depression?

Have you been through it?

What helped you?

I'm not sure what the difference is but i got depressed after everyone of my children i think its a hormonal thing i'm not sure.

I wonder if there's tests they can do?

What do they use to treat post-natal, and what do they use to treat ordinary depression?

I was under the impression that post-natal was hormonal (like PMT that won't go away), but normal depression can be caused by chemical imbalance, or ongoing circumstances which do genuinely get you down


Not sure if it'll be of any help, but I find that an adrenalin fix induced by excercise is a great cure for depression, and my mum is finding out that taking control of your environment so you can feel you've achieved something works wonders

Do you fancy taking over Mr Strix's ridiculously cheap gym membership? coz I could do with a partner who gets home before they close ;)

I'm not sure what the difference is but i got depressed after everyone of my children i think its a hormonal thing i'm not sure.
yep same here,passes with time,i think its an ajustment thing,not nice.

I get the impression that PND is caused by the massive hormone shifts that have taken place, and it has been suggested that an element of PND could even be post traumatic stress.

I wonder if you could take the supplements designed to help PMT - Evening primrose Oil, Vitamin B6, etc. I'm not a doctor, though. :)

Post natal depression occurs after a pregnancy, depression can be at any time. There are tests that can be done to determine if you have it.

I had it following the birth of my second child and it lasted for around 1 year but was improving after 6 months. I never quite believed that I had it until I recovered, only then did I realise how bad I had been feeling.

I was tested and scored quite high on the scale. I refused all medication and one day found a health visitor and a psychiatric nurse on my doorstep as I was on my way out to the doctors. They offered to escort me to the chemist to pick up my prescription. I refused and my visit with the doctor resulted in me seeing a psychiatrist every week for a year.

This worked for me as my PND was a combination of hormones and circumstances. There were lots of triggers in my case such as a difficult pregnancy, a car crash 2 weeks after giving birth and so on.

I remember at the time that I carried on my normal activities but my smiles for my daughter were false, I made a great effort to fabricate these emotions for her. I tried to get a flat and leave my husband too. All madness when I look back but seemed so genuine at the time.

Although hormone levels do change dramaticaly after birth, there's no conclusive evidence to suggest that this is what causes PND. A history of depression is a factor though.

There's an interesting article about it from the Royal College of Psychiatrists here (http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthinformation/mentalhealthproblems/postnatalmentalhealth/postnataldepression.aspx).

The really hopeful thing about PND is that it's much more likely to totally recover from it than with standard depression. With standard depression the recovery rate is actually quite low, but with PND the vast majority of women recover to extent that the depression is unmeasureable by all of the scales.

It is desperately important not to attempt to deal with PND without medical help though, because excluding other sorts of mental health problems and the rare but dangerous puerperal psychosis is a cornerstone of treatment (which is usually based on talking therapy especially if women are breastfeeding, whereas the other problems may necessitate medications and admission to psychiatric units to treat fully).

Im sure that hormones have a part to play but with me tiredness took its toll and the sheer overwhelmingness of the situation:( I am prone to depression though as Hecate suggests!

I got it quite bady with son1 after a bad birth resulting in an emergency section and no family support (other than hubby), baby slept really badly and I could not cope and realised that I couldnt after 6 weeks:( Unfortunately the support I got from my Dr was drug based only - a drug that it took me over 3 years to get off:( I just could not bond with son 1 at all and still have trouble I am very ashamed to say.

With son 2 a bit of a different kettle of fish ('normal' birth and he slept well for a newborn) but I still saw the signs quite early on. Although I had HV support (or oversupport sometimes phoning daily) I refused drugs after having trouble last time getting off them. Luckily this time I coped reasonably well......until now actually where son 2 has started sleeping really badly again for no reason that we can see (hes now nearly 2.5yrs) but thats another story:suspect:

my healthy visitor was getting quite worried about me after i popped one out - the questionaire that they do that's intended to indicate whether you're depressed or not was suggesting that i was. however, given that exhaustion has a lot of the same symptoms as PND I'd talk to your health visitor (not your doctor - they have short appointment times, and much less experience of postnatal women than your health visitor has) about supplementing your baby with formula/expressed milk for an extra feed per day if she thinks you're exhausted rather than depressed. I know one shouldn't encourage someone to reduce the breast feeds, but when your health is genuinely at risk through exhaustion, it might be worth it. getting sleep in blocks of more than an hour can make such a massive difference.

i'm assuming that the diagnosis of pnd comes from more than just those initial questionaires though, as there must be ways to distinguish between exhaustion and pnd.

note to the ladies - being so tired you can't tell whether you're awake or asleep, but without feeling tired, and not being able to eat more than a few mouthfuls at a time because of the sheer effort involved, and listening to your baby scream with hunger for 2 hours just 3 foot away from you but without physically being able to move - these can all be exhaustion rather than pnd!

Must admit I feel a bit like i've got constant PMT so I guess the hormones must be playing a part. Poor hubby always gets the brunt of it though and I can be perfectly nice to someone else :loopy: not sure why that would be.

I totally adore my little boy, he is everything to me - to the exclusion of everything and everyone else almost. Not sure if i'm becoming a little bit too obsessed (is that possible?) as I hate hubby coming anywhere near him and have to really bite my tongue or go out of the room when he's with him because he simply can't do anything right. The fact is whatever he does wouldn't be good enough - and I realise that - which is why I try to avoid confrontation by leaving the room. But it also means I'm not getting as much help as I could be getting as i'm taking everything on.

We've ordered some new gates for our driveway (recently moved and have a dog) and I managed to talk hubby into getting some 5ft high solid wooden gates so that people won't be able to see into the garden and see my little boy once he's old enough to be outside. I would have preferred 6ft high gates to be honest but hubby wouldn't agree to that :(

Not sure whether all this (and more) could be PND or am I just being a bit paranoid and over-protective?

Must admit I feel a bit like i've got constant PMT so I guess the hormones must be playing a part. Poor hubby always gets the brunt of it though and I can be perfectly nice to someone else :loopy: not sure why that would be.

so true - i'm jsut like this. i don't think that's abnormal at all - you let your frustrations out where you feel most comfortable. deep down you know you're not going to send your husband packing by being mean to him, but other people will probably just leave and never look bad if you're constnatly picking on them. don't worry about this at all, although for your husband's sake - try to be nice!

I totally adore my little boy, he is everything to me - to the exclusion of everything and everyone else almost. Not sure if i'm becoming a little bit too obsessed (is that possible?) as I hate hubby coming anywhere near him and have to really bite my tongue or go out of the room when he's with him because he simply can't do anything right. The fact is whatever he does wouldn't be good enough - and I realise that - which is why I try to avoid confrontation by leaving the room. But it also means I'm not getting as much help as I could be getting as i'm taking everything on.

i'm alright with m'bloke doing stuff, but i get really twitchy whenever anyone else tries to get involved. i'm not so bad now, but at first i just couldn't take my eyes off the baby whenever anyone else was holding her, i had to go with whenever anyone else changed her etc etc i think it was through sheer exhaustion - i just couldn't get up sometimes to go and change her - that other people got involved, and i just got used to it and relaxed more. try staying in the room with your husband, but put a sock in your mouth (literally, if you can't do it mentally!) - trust him, he's got as much interest in your child as you do.

We've ordered some new gates for our driveway (recently moved and have a dog) and I managed to talk hubby into getting some 5ft high solid wooden gates so that people won't be able to see into the garden and see my little boy once he's old enough to be outside. I would have preferred 6ft high gates to be honest but hubby wouldn't agree to that :(

Not sure whether all this (and more) could be PND or am I just being a bit paranoid and over-protective?

Tall gates - if people can't see in, then minihels can't see out, either. people are going to see him, and people are nosy so won't be able to resist looking over your gates anyway. to be honest, most people won't have any interest in your son - playing in the garden or otherwise. he won't require any more or any less looking after just because the gates are harder to see over.

i reckon you should speak to your health visitor - none of the above things by themselves seem particularly worrying (yeah, like my opinion is worth having - i use the name 'babychickens', ffs) by themselves, but maybe all of them together might be caused by some pnd. it can't do any harm to talk to your hv, anyway. even if you're not depressed, i think you need to either help yourself let go of the baby a little, or get someone to help you do so.

can i just repeat what i've said before? I'm so so impressed with anyone who manages to breast feed as much as you have - babybabychickens had her last expressed milk at 13 weeks. incidentally, it's a myth that your milk will dry up really quickly - i've not expressed for nearly 3 weeks and am still lactating (although not much, obviously)(although it's different for everyone. once your milk is properly in, it doesn't go easily), so you could be very brave and trust the husband to do 2 extra formula feeds for the baby and you just sleep through for 6 hours or something (maybe even go and stay with a friend/parent for the night) - it might do you the world of good both in terms of how you feel physically, and how much you trust your husband. i very much doubt it would have any effect on your supply whatsoever.

Hels, it does sound like a chat with your HV/GP might be an idea. Having given birth can do such weird things to your head. It does sound like you might have a touch of PND, and though exhaustion and sleep deprivation are different obviously, they can lead to depression if you don't find a way to cope with them, or if you start giving way a little too much to the barmy thoughts and ideas you get.
I suffered horribly, now I look back on it, but was trusted by my HV/GP to tell them if I thought I was going under because I have a well documented history of depressive episodes. Of course I didn't tell them. I couldn't tell what was exhaustion, what was depression. I did keep saying to people 'look, I'm really, really anxious', or 'I wish he (cosycub) didn't have to come back from his grandparents today', but I never actually came out and said 'I can't stand this anymore, I feel like hell, and the anxiety is going to kill me!' I wish I had, I feel like I missed some valuable loving time with him that I can never get back. I still loved him dearly, but I wasn't in a good place.
If you're concerned enough to ask, then get checked out. Be WHOLLY truthful when answering questions (they won't think you're a freak). Be truthful with yourself and your partner. And hold on - it all gets better and better. It's just that it's so much better if that process starts now rather than later.

So... how long can it last? months? years? Decades?

It can last up to two years, I think. Better sorted rather sooner!

Next week I'm going back to work after having six months off sick, suffering with Severe Post-Natal Depression & Psychosis. Only problem being I'm the Daddy! My wife had Pre-Natal Depression and got Post-Natal Depression when our baby was 3 months old. By the time our baby was 5 months old I had come to the conclusion that suicide was the only way to out. After some Counselling and Anti-Depressants I'm back to my 'usual' self.

The cause was a combination of looking after my wife while she had PND, my wife deciding not to go back to work - so I had all the financial responsibility and this meant a big change in our lifestyle. Also, at the time we were having a difficult period with the Baby.

Before I was diagnosed I didn't even know that Men could get PND. Just wondering if any others had experienced something similar?

I'm sorry to hear that you've had this to deal with over the last year or so! Its always sad when the joy of a new life is clouded by depression. I find it very understandable that you suffered as a result of the stresses and strains you carried.

I had PND but I'm a mammy not a daddy! So sorry, but good to hear that you are at the other side now :)

i suffered with pnd after the birth of our first son 3 years ago.we now have a 12 week old son too and i could see the symptoms of pnd in my partner a few weeks after i had given birth.people dont believe it can happen to men but it does.i was able to give advice and understand how he was feeling as id been through it myself.people need to be more understanding of males with pnd as well as women.

I had Pnd with my first son and Im sure that my husband had symptoms too:( The HV was always asking about how I was suggesting how hubby might be able to help me out and stuff and she didnt realise that he was feeling really dreadful himself (so she was putting extra pressure on and making it worse for him:( ). I think pnd in men is more common than you would think.

I think PND is quite common in men. Part of the reason may be that they have a hard time adjusting when the baby arrives. The woman has the entire pregnancy to deal with the upcoming changes, she has no choice as the baby is growing in her! However for blokes the situation sometimes only becomes 'real' once the baby arrives. Then very suddenly there is so much pressure on them to provide and to be a good father etc. and they are expected to be strong for their partner as she has gone through and continues to go through, a physically exhausting time. Men often don't feel like they have the right to feel depressed which as anyone who's ever been depressed knows, makes the whole thing 10 times worse...

I think that it should be a better publicised thing that carers for people with mental health problems are in a really raised risk group for mental health problems themselves. Whether postnatal or not- it's recognised in the medical profession that the added pressure of looking after an ill relative of any sort can precipitate stress related conditions including depression.

More people should be aware of this sort of thing, if only so that they know that they're not alone, and that it's common enough to be a 'normal' response to the extra stress levels, and that there are things that can be done about it, from support to counselling and medication.

NO advice to give, but just wanted to wish you all the best, it's a totally life changing event having a baby.
x

Hi,

For the last few days, I have been feeling a bit low and hypersensitive. If my husband says something I don't like I cry like a really pathetic little woman, even though my husband is the gentlest person and I know he never means to hurt me. The strange thing is, I like to think of myself as a very strong, no-nonsense kind of person. What is wrong with me?

I can pinpoint the day all this started. We were putting together the baby's cot and wardrobe. I was fine all along. Then my husband wound up a musical toy somebody gave us, and the music just set me off! Can you believe that? I am really NOT the crying type! Well, this was Sunday, and since then I have cried every day for the most stupid things: my husband wanted to go to sleep when I wanted to chat, he made a joke about my pregnancy snoring, etc.

My worry is that this is a slippery slope towards depression. I don't have a tendency to depression at all, but I admit I am a bit worried about post natal depression. I don't know why, but I've always thought maybe I won't adapt well to being at home, given I love my job and I like being with people. What if I feel lonely and isolated, stuck in my house with a crying baby when everybody else is at work? What if I don't bond with my child? What if I can't love him?

Now, this is very stupid: this child is very much planned, wanted and already loved, so why am I feeling so doubtful? I sound so pathetic, it's really not me at all. It sounds like I don 't want to be a mother, and I DO! Help!

Hi, bless you its such a confusing and wonderful time being pregnant isn't it? I am sure it is probably just all the hormones kicking in that are making you feel so weepy all the time, i was exactly the same(that or grumpy!!).
You have said that the baby was planned wanted and is already loved and when you finally have that little bundle of joy in your arms you will love them unconditionally. Your midwife and health visitor will both be there to help you once baby arrives and i would really try not to worry too much about how you will feel and just take each day as it comes. It is scary but it is also the most magical experience you will most likely ever have.
Just enjoy your time pregnant, relax(i'm not saying its easy) and it will all fall into place.
Take care

Yup, hormones are buggers.

You'll be fine, its a bit of a downer sometimes being with child and all the worry that goes with it. I wrote to my baby, kept a diary and wrote it (which was a him) letters and poems. I kept them all to give him when he's grown up :)

It helped me.

Hi,

For the last few days, I have been feeling a bit low and hypersensitive. If my husband says something I don't like I cry like a really pathetic little woman, even though my husband is the gentlest person and I know he never means to hurt me. The strange thing is, I like to think of myself as a very strong, no-nonsense kind of person. What is wrong with me?

I can pinpoint the day all this started. We were putting together the baby's cot and wardrobe. I was fine all along. Then my husband wound up a musical toy somebody gave us, and the music just set me off! Can you believe that? I am really NOT the crying type! Well, this was Sunday, and since then I have cried every day for the most stupid things: my husband wanted to go to sleep when I wanted to chat, he made a joke about my pregnancy snoring, etc.

My worry is that this is a slippery slope towards depression. I don't have a tendency to depression at all, but I admit I am a bit worried about post natal depression. I don't know why, but I've always thought maybe I won't adapt well to being at home, given I love my job and I like being with people. What if I feel lonely and isolated, stuck in my house with a crying baby when everybody else is at work? What if I don't bond with my child? What if I can't love him?

Now, this is very stupid: this child is very much planned, wanted and already loved, so why am I feeling so doubtful? I sound so pathetic, it's really not me at all. It sounds like I don 't want to be a mother, and I DO! Help!

As fox says - those hormones really do know how to make you feel crap, don't they? Don't worry, it's only a phase, although it's impossible to say when it'll be over. As for worrying about whether you bond with your child or that you won't love him - you will, but it might take some time, you might have to work at it, and it might take some tough decisions about feeding and sleeping arrangements, but you'll get there sooner or later.

So that you don't feel lonely and isolated (believe me, 7 months of maternity leave was having real effects on me - I love my job too, and although I'm pretty much a loner, I really missed my friends who were at work...I hated maternity leave, although I had expected to love it) find some pregnant friends now (antenatal yoga, perhaps? other antenatal classes?), and find out when/where all the baby get-togethers in your area are in advance - you probably won't have time to search them out once you have the baby. Also, one of the things that I found difficult was facing going out to do any shopping - it's pretty strenuous, especially as you have to know which shops are accessible and where the lifts, toilets big enough for pushchair, and changing rooms are - get looking for those now. Find pushchair friendly parks, car parks, pottery shops (hand print mugs for christmas for everyone) and restaurants, too...you'd be surprised what you can do during the day IF you take it easy on yourself - it can take some time adapting. Could you arrange for your mum to come and stay with you for a couple of weeks after the birth to take the pressure off you a bit?

cris71, we can all assure you that it is perfectly normal to be buffetted by hormones when pregnant, and to suffer a million thousand fears and worries, some silly, some less so. You're fine, you'll be fine, and even if it's difficult at first, it will all work out fine.

Easy for us to say, eh?

Treat yourself with love and look after yourself. Forgive yourself your mood swings and all the other bonkers things your body and mind are doing to you. It's very normal.

As Babychickens says, it's probably also a good idea to do things that help make you feel good about yourself and capable, and that will benefit you and baby later...scoping out places to go and people to see, cleaning the house and making ready. It'll take your mind off some of your worries, as well.

Chin up, and come here whenever you need a virtual hug. xxx

Hi,

Just wanted to say thank you for all your support and useful ideas. I have already joined the aqua natal sessions in Hillsborough, and it was great to see so many pregnant women under the same roof! Will also enquire about mother-and-baby groups in the area: from what I've seen on the internet there are quite a few, it's just a matter of popping in and say hello. You are right that preparing in advance is essential to avoid loneliness.

I feel a lot more positive now! I just have to remember that if I feel low again, it's just part of the pregnancy, and I shouldn't worry too much about long term implications.

Anyway, will keep you posted - only 6 1/2 weeks to go!

Hi :wave:, I'm in a similar position and know just how you feel.

I'm suffering from moderate/severe antenatal depression, the number of people who have told me 'you'll be fine' is starting to irritate me, yes i know i probably will be, but its as useful as being told to 'pull yourself together' or 'cheer up' its NOT that easy.... and it REALLY doesn't help, it makes you feel even worse, inadequate and that you are not coping as well as you ought to be...

I've mentioned this depression at every antenatal and docs appt i've had in the last 10 weeks, it took til this week for someone to write it in my notes, and even then its only written as 'feeling low, not suicidal' well ta, thats useful. Otherwise i've been told to say if it gets 'bad'.... doh, well, thats WHY I'm mentioning it.

Its really worth mentioning it at your next appt, and make sure they make a note of it, help is available, drugs are a last resort but are possible if you are very bad (i'm still resisting, though probably am being too stubborn) If nothing else, at least keeping an eye on you is worth it...

I'm working on distracting myself, going out for a coffee with a friend or two (who know what depression feels like) when i can, absorbing myself in work when i'm there, trying to focus on the positive things.

This baby is also fully planned, but i'm not enjoying pregnancy at all, I'm in shedloads of pain too, which isn't helping, but i'm trying to look forward, trying to plan ahead, working out what i'll do to keep myself from being bored/lonely/depressed when Bean arrives. (I currently have a second hand pram with no instructions that i'm trying to work out ;))

feel free to PM me if you want info about a message board i use for antenatal/postnatal depressionny stuff. You don't have to be suicidal, just feeling low and needing someone to talk to :)

Em

Hi Cris71, just wanted to say I can empathise totally with how you are feeling. Yes, I got weepy when pregnant, and baby music on mobiles or lullabyes always set me off! I too had a very busy career & when I started my mat leave I was really lost. I am not good at being home alone having always been very busy at work & always needed people around me & something to do. Also as a previously very competent & confident person it scared me to be so fragile & emotional!

I have now only just had my baby & am very emotional, and cry every day over something silly. I too worry about the PND but I really think this is just hormones & a difficult transition if you are used to one life & everything is about to change. Simply being weepy & sensitive is quite normal when hormones are involved! My hubby goes back to work next week & I have been so worried about being home alone with a crying baby (even tho she is totally beautiful and everything we wanted). To ease my worry I have looked into all the local groups & activities & have made some contacts over the net with local people. Some of us are going to meet in sheffield soon so you could join us if you fancy. I know Jellytots also really welcome people so I plan to go there at some point too. I have now got my diary out and am planning to have somewhere I could go most days (tho not too much as its quite tiring having a new baby!) whether its a mum & baby group, baby massage, or coffee with a friend. This is really giving me a sense of control & the structure of putting things in my diary is more familiar for me. I find my baby is also more settled when we go out somewhere so its a break for me too & it feels great to get out. Perhaps this approach may help you too. Just dont expect too much of yourself because if you are anything like me you may have a tendency to. Go easy on yourself & forgive yourself for being sensitive like you would a good friend in your position. :)

I keep putting it down to hormones. Im the same im 5 mnth pregnant. The other day my aunt msn'd me and asked if i was ok. I bit her off by saying why you asking .. She said iim only asking. I said well shouldn't i be. Yes i felt bad but im so paranoid. My other friend text me asking if i was going to pub thursday night. I jumped down her throat asking why she was asking. And same with hubby. I thought it might be depression but im just plane old paranoid. and short fused charlie x

I'm 39 weeks and just fed up.

My fuse is so short. I'm not feeling low just really grotty. I've been feeling like this on and off all the way through but it's got worse since i left work. I feel like i've been pregnant forever and sick of being uncomfortable.

I do feel guilty about being ratty with everyone which makes me feel even worse. I listen to the stuff i say to people and i can't believe what i'm saying as i'm usually quite reasonable!! My hubby catches it quite frequently and says he can't wait to have the old me back!!

Yay, Not just me then! Yesterday I woke up kind of OK, but spent the whole of breakfast sobbing into my branflakes! I have no real idea why or for what reason, but it took a good 30 minutes of tears and a huge amount of cuddles to get my act together.

I agree with everyone here - we are the subject to a lot of changes at the moment over which we have absolutely no control. It's hardly suprising that the hormones and approaching motherhood make us feel teary, grumpy and tired. I think though that it's really important to keep an eye on it, but also to accept that it's mostly normal. I've also had depression beforehand, so always feel like I'm on the lookout, but also have to appreciate that a lot of it is driven by my own biology at the moment.

One thing though that has seriously affected me is the bad experience of motherhood from a close friend. It's really really hard to keep things in perspective, but I'm prone to comparing and worrying endlessly. Will we be as badly affected? Will our marriage suffer? Will we go crazy? How on earth will we cope financially?! So now all we do is talk. And then talk some more. Still - I could do without the negatives from other new mums! Do they know what the effect of what they're saying?!

Still - I could do without the negatives from other new mums! Do they know what the effect of what they're saying?!

We new Mum's need support too :(

(((((Hi Everyone))))

It sounds like we all need a bit of support of the mo. Flaming hormones.

I found my last pg (my 3rd) very hard for different reasons & was worried about PND & bonding with the baby. Everything was fine once she was here.

My sister went to the aquanatal group at Hills & still meets up with the people she met there. I think things are always harder to deal with if you feel isolated.

Do you live near a Surestart centre? Once the baby is born the offer loads of classes & support groups.

If you aren't sure ask the Health Visitor or midwife or ring the Childrens Information Service (I don't know the number but you can find the website through Google).

Good luck with everything.

Lisa xx

I just wanted to write that I remember worrying in the same ways when I was pregnant. I was especially concerned that I would end up with PND - the concept of being stuck at home with twins and rarely going out due to post op recovery, the battle of twins etc etc I was very worried. Scared about how we would cope as parents. Scared of how my friendships etc would change. Wondering if I could really cope. Could I really love the babies. So on and so forth.
It all seems such a long time ago and almost irrelevent, not to say anyones fears are irrelevent but that now, with the girls approaching 2, my priorities are about their development, who to invite to their birthday party, moving house to somewhere near good schools and with a good garden.
My relationship with my partner has changed, I did not suffer PND, I was out and about within 2 weeks of giving birth, my friendships have changed a little but everyone dotes on the girls, I cope very well as a parent 95% of the time, the rest of the time I calm down whilst cleaning the recycled biscuit off my new jeans/trying to resusitate the cat/picking minute stickers out of my hair/picking up the broken pieces of the latest devilish behaviour...... and I wouldn't change a thing. I love them dearly but I grew to love them, it wasn't an instant overwhelming thing for me (I had a C-section though and I think it makes a difference to the hormone wash).
Getting out is important, before and after birth, isolation does no one any good, especially during one of the most important events of your life and we are designed to chat, to share experiences and information. Simplistically, we as humans do not do well in isolation anyway.
Your fears are normal and natural and I'm afraid you will be stuck with fears about your children AT LEAST until they turn 18 but probably longer and it will be worth it.

Pregnancy does bizarre things to people and there is nothing you can do about it, not a thing, so why try? Enjoy what you can, try not to wallow when you can't enjoy it. Make the most of the leave you have, those final moments of being unhindered adults and then be prepared for a huge, scary and fabulous change.
New parents are living the change, enduring the sleepless part which makes oyu feel slightly detached from everything for a while, it can make you feel like you have to validate yourself because 'all you do is stay at home with the baby', it can give you the greatest pride and the greatest doubts and you express yourself better to other parents who know how it is or to pregnant women to try and explain to them how it can be. I think many women think it helps to share the reality and typically this is something that would be done but in a less verbal way and in a more physical and experiencing way.
Now we have society to keep up with, whose babycare regime do we follow, how many ounces of which milk, breast or bottle - the battle of the baby diet, how advanced is the child (more or less than the next), how much have you spent on their 'stuff'. It's a competition for many, a step up from the nicer house/car/better job oneupmanship. For others it's just an overflowing pride.
Generally all comments will be made with the best intentions, most people want to help prepare you or to give you ideas about how to cope with certain situations later on. Take it as best you can and ignore the rest :)
I promise, even though you will doubt me many, many times, it will be worth it and this time will most likely feel very insignificant in 6 months time, continuing to be less important as time passes, by the fact that life changes and that time heals.

Hi,

For the last few days, I have been feeling a bit low and hypersensitive. If my husband says something I don't like I cry like a really pathetic little woman, even though my husband is the gentlest person and I know he never means to hurt me. The strange thing is, I like to think of myself as a very strong, no-nonsense kind of person. What is wrong with me?

I can pinpoint the day all this started. We were putting together the baby's cot and wardrobe. I was fine all along. Then my husband wound up a musical toy somebody gave us, and the music just set me off! Can you believe that? I am really NOT the crying type! Well, this was Sunday, and since then I have cried every day for the most stupid things: my husband wanted to go to sleep when I wanted to chat, he made a joke about my pregnancy snoring, etc.

My worry is that this is a slippery slope towards depression. I don't have a tendency to depression at all, but I admit I am a bit worried about post natal depression. I don't know why, but I've always thought maybe I won't adapt well to being at home, given I love my job and I like being with people. What if I feel lonely and isolated, stuck in my house with a crying baby when everybody else is at work? What if I don't bond with my child? What if I can't love him?

Now, this is very stupid: this child is very much planned, wanted and already loved, so why am I feeling so doubtful? I sound so pathetic, it's really not me at all. It sounds like I don 't want to be a mother, and I DO! Help!

"Big Hug for mummy to be" I had antenatal depression at 7mths, and didnt have a clue about it then, thought it only happened after the birth. I just woke up one day and cried for about 2weeks solid, my midwife was a star and spent hours on the phone reassuring me it was normal. It is.

Worrying wont change anything in the long run, and I know all these fears run riot in your head but, you will be absolutely fine and when your babe is in your arms it will all seem so irrelevant, weather you bond immediately or not, you still have a deep love that sees you through anything. My kids kept me going through so many dark times and they still are the reason I get out of bed on the days I cant face the world.

Motherhood is not by any means a walk in the park but it is the most important and rewarding job you will EVER do, its a journey you start together and as your babe grows and develops so do you, mother nature is amazing and you will love her when you realise she has put all foundations down for you, you just dont realise it yet. XXXX

I suffered from PND with dd and it was horrific, possibly one of the reasons I waited so long to get pg again (she'll be just turning 10 when this baby is born)

I have so many worries about this one and from reading this thread it appears they are the same as just about everyone elses. I started a thread about crying as I can't control myself at the moment, it's terrible but having ready the posts on the forum i see it's normal. I'm not crazy or an emotional wreck. I'm simply a normal mummy to be.

I hope that by now Cris your feeling better. If you need someone to talk to pm me. I think, however, it's good to cry. It cleanses the soul and not to mention after a good cry your skin on your face gets a bit tighter! lol

I suffered from PND with dd and it was horrific, possibly one of the reasons I waited so long to get pg again (she'll be just turning 10 when this baby is born)

I have so many worries about this one and from reading this thread it appears they are the same as just about everyone elses. I started a thread about crying as I can't control myself at the moment, it's terrible but having ready the posts on the forum i see it's normal. I'm not crazy or an emotional wreck. I'm simply a normal mummy to be.

I hope that by now Cris your feeling better. If you need someone to talk to pm me. I think, however, it's good to cry. It cleanses the soul and not to mention after a good cry your skin on your face gets a bit tighter! lol

I waited 8yrs for my second dd as I had crippling PND with first, was referred to Mental Health midwife with second just in case.
Luckily not had it at all this time, bit weepy in first week but thats expected. :thumbsup:

I woke up today- Happy as ever. Then cryed all afternoon. Blamed my OH for not loving me, for always been more interested in his pc games and not me! I think it happens to everybody at some point. I hope it does! Good luck with baby x

Well i think i have a bit of baby blues. Ended up rowing with my husband last night.Normally we don't ro but i was really angry. And wouldn't let the matter drop. Then today i was ripping me hair out don't know why??
Just thought i would skulk off for a cry. Felt better then this afternoon,i knocked my coffee off side after cleaning floor so i decided to take 5. Rememberd i had some cigs i hid upstairs in me old dressing gown pocket. Have not bothered with them at all. So thought i would go get them.And sit on back have a cig. But got distracted,any way at about 4 pm i asked my sis to watch kids.So i could pop upstairs and freshen up in bath. After i gathered all the washing and put it in washer. Was stood in kitchen and washer was making a daft sound. Realised i had picked my dressing gown up with my cigs in and lighter and put it in washer. Well that was it i was off crying again. Is this normal or am i mad. Would not mind have not smoked for a bit now,so not like i really needed a cig. But it felt the world was against me today.

Sounds like you need a break to be hun

Charlie, have a fag an a coffee luv, don't worry bout argument it will blow over take care hun xx

How long ago did you have your baby? Because for around a month after I had my baby I cried everyday, over stupid things there was nothing wrong with me I hadn't got depression, my hormones were all over the place and I was just dead emotional, it's completely normal, don't worry :-) xxx

you have just had your baby hun dont worry about it i was like that for about 2 months after i had my son still have days like it now an he is 7 nearly honestly hun dont worry

Aww, I hope you feel cheerier soon! Sounds like you're having a good old fashioned bad day to me. Look after yourself, big hugs xx

Thanks guys am much better today,it is mad how up and down i'v felt since having evie.
It is now quarter past nine i'v cleaned hous top to bottom . Got my little boy off school due to flooding. So am gonna relax rest of day now. charlie x

Glad to hear your feeling much better today, Charlie :D

Has anyone suffered this and how have you dealt with it? Any alternatives to antidepressants?

I suffered severe depression during pregnancy, I did take antiDs for a while (4 weeks in the middle to give me a break) and the rest of the time I just 'coped' mainly through sheer bl**dy mindedness!!
For me though, breastfeeding failed, a huge disappointment (made the depression worse!), but a blessing in disguise as it meant I could go back on the antidepressants without feeling guilty. So I can't help you too much on that one.

I know it is possible to breastfeed AND take antiDs if thats what you need, but most GPs prefer you not to (I was told that I could by the hospital registrar, as breastmilk carries less of the drug through to baby than he got while he was still in me! so technically its less bad than taking antiDs in pregnancy!)

As for other methods, I just carried on without the drugs, had a hugely supportive partner and was fortunately not working... I had no other methods and was never offered any!

Hi Ginger Kitty. I think I am bl@@@y minded like you. I really dont want to go down the route off antidepressants. My usual way of coping is to get out my punch bag and give it a good telling off but because of the spd I can barely stand up. Both my last pregnancies were very difficult times. With my oldest I was on my own and with my second my little sister died off SAD when I was 8 months pregnant. Whats made it harder is that I will be 8 months pregnant again on the date of when she died so paranoia is getting the better of me. I know I should just be happy and enjoying the pregnancy and I know people have things a lot harder then me but I am really struggling to cope with my up and down emotions. Its those bloomin hormone things again.

I suffered AND and PND badly with my first, but denied it for a long time. I just got on with things, in hind sight I should have asked for help really but just didn't

For breastfeeding and anti-d's, you can take Sertraline. It's rated as one of the safest for carry-through to milk.

I was on Sertraline and was constantly told throughout my pregnancy that I could safely take the full dose as usual but I didn't believe them and reduced my dose. Ended up being admitted at 29 weeks but after long discussions we all agreed on a compromise of me taking half dose - I agreed i'd stick to it and they agreed not to keep pushing me to take the full dose! The same with breastfeeding, I only went up to the full dose again when i'd stopped breast feeding. I'd done lots of research on the net - much of the information available was from trials done in America and the results come up with varying indicators so from what I could find there's nothing 100% certain one way or the other. What the doctors will do though is consider your mental state and wether it's more of a risk you not taking medication that it is if you do take it. Everyone's different and taking medication for depression is often perceived as a weakness - it isn't - it's what you need at the time.

I'm really sorry to hear about your sister and it's obviously playing on your mind a great deal - is there anyone at your doctors you can talk to about it? You may be able to get some help from the community mental health team in the way of counselling which would be preferable to having to take medication if you're really set against medication.

i havent suffered with depression but have had anxiety which is interlinked with depression, both are mood disorders.

i've been taking a combo of vit B & omega 3.
firstly, before taking anything dueing preganancy have a word with your GP/HV especially about the B vit. i cant see there been a problem with you been able to take the omega 3 tho as we dont have enough of it in our diet & its good for babys develping brains. i would ask for advise on different capsuels because some of the cheaper fish ones still contain mercury but there are plant based ones for vegetarians, its woth doing a bit of reserch first.

when looking for omega 3 you want the highest amount of EPA as this is the thing that helps with mood disorders. i currently take 6 capsules of 1000mg a day (as advised by mu GP). its not an instant remedy, they can take a couple of weeks to start working but i feel a lot better for taking them, plus my hair & my skin looks fab too.

have a google about the omega 3, there is alot of info out there about it. some say there is no evidance to say it helps with anxiety & depression & some say its a wonder product. i thought i would give it a try, even if it dosent work for my problem atleast i'll have a healthy heart.

i dont want to sound like i'm pushing this product too much so i'll stop here.
i still did all the other things i've been told to do to help like exercise, eat healthy, stop smoking, cut down on drinking etc all of which i'm sure your doing.

i really hope you start to feel better soon & find something that works for you & your baby. i wouldnt wish depression or anxiety on my worst enimy.

hello,

I didn't suffer from depression during pregnancy but after the birth and during breastfeeding.

I refused to take AD and my saviours were husband/family/friends' support and exercising.

Good luck.
It's not easy but there's a light at the end of the tunnel.

I'm wary of posthing this thread but I think there could be a positive spin on it.
Mothers to be and new mothers with post natal depression could be affecting their childs development, or so I've read today.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1029814/Depressed-mothers-hold-children.html

I doubt that telling a depressed mother this would help things much, but what if it's the prompt which pushes her into seeing the doctor or asking for much needed help.

Does anyone have any thoughts of experience on this?

Well.. the closest I can come to this is... When I first met my Oh, it was less than a year after my sons death, he died in December of 2001, I moved in with her in April of 2002, in August of 2002 I moved with her to Leicester and in February of 2003 our daughter was born.

I was a mess, I was still very messed up because of the death, plus I had moved away from the city I loved, discovered I was losing my sight and was unemployable because of it, got a new job to prove I wasnt unemployable, lived with my OHs parents in a city I didnt know and... My OH felt it too, I barely paid her any attention because of all that and that got her down.

Our daughter is classed as an "Anxious child" shes getting treatment for it, theres no real reason for her to be anxious, yet its a part of her personality.
Shes also got extremely bad teeth even though we`re both obsessive about dental hygene, she has speech problems, concentration/attention problems even though shes top of her class in reading and writing, she has problems with her achilles tendons and other problems and after over three years of constant hospital visits with her they STILL cant find out a reason for this.

I mentioned the time we had when the OH was carrying her and the stress we went through both then and for a year after her birth but they wont say yes or no as a reason.

I DO know that babies can feel atmospheres though and that affects them badly.

That was a lot to go through Jabbers and a big change for you and your OH, must have been very hard :sad: and I think it's brave of you to post about it on here.

I had a lot of stress during my 2 pregnancies (caused by ex) my first son has experienced many many problems and he also suffers from stress and anxiety issues.
My 2nd son also has had issues but on the whole has faired better I think (though he may or may not agree) he never had to live with the ex really.
If only we could see things as clearly then as we can now hey :|

It is the opposite for my daughter. She's 10 now and when I had her I was 17, a single mum and I suffered from dreadful post natal depression. One of the symptoms for me was that I over cared for her. She was always the best dressed and cleanest baby, the one who walked first, who talked first teh one who ate the best and slept the best etc.

Basically because I didn't have an emotional tie I tried to make up for it in other ways. This is until the various medications I had to try started to work.

When I suddenly felt a little bit of love for her (this was a big deal at the time) she was about 6 months old and and I worried like mad that how I felt would have a major effect on her but it really hasn't.

She is a proper chilled out kid, is SO well behaved to the point people at her school used to say it wasn't normal lol, she doesn't have an anxious bone in her body and I think I worried unnecessarily.

This time round I have felt the instant burst of love for dd2 but I have been paying attention to my emotions just in case and thus far we seem ok (she's only 15 weeks though)

This isn't the same for many others from the research I've subsequently read but I feel that parents especially mums are given enough of a rough ride without being blamed for making their children anxious and stressed through no fault of their own.

I had severe antenatal depression and am now suffering similarly with post natal depression.

I'm SOOOO aware of how my feelings, reactions and emotions can affect those around me, friends, family etc That I fully expect my poor boy to be aware and to be affected by moods too.

I have to make sure that I can do everything I can that makes my moods better, that stops me from going seriously downhill, almost purely for the sake of him!

I had the birth I had for 'sanity' reasons as much as anything else, BF was given up partly so that I could have antiD's without the guilt that he would be getting them too.

I have no idea what the long term effects will be on him, but for now its important to me that i do everything to tackle my depression to stop him suffering.

:)

GK, you looked to be doing a great job when we saw you :) LO certainly seems content too.
We'd love to see you at Jellys again :)

Well Ginger, I feel that as you are very aware of how your illness effects the little man then you are less likely to cause him any major damage. PND is a horrible illness and so hard for the families involved. If you ever need a natter or to shout you know where I am (same goes if you want to meet for coffee and we can swap babies for a bit - Ed is a sweetie pie)

Thanks ladies :)

I must admit he's the happiest baby I've ever met, full of smiles even last week when we were all down with the lurgy!! He even smiles after a huge sneezing fit!! He really does keep me going :)

I've suffered with depression half my life, I'm very aware of it and how it effects me and those around me, I'm well practised at 'turning it off' when I need to, when i'm in public, with family, etc. As soon as I get home I fall apart :( Thats the hard bit :(

I'll be back at Jellys soon I promise :D

I also suffered from pnd very badly until my lo was about 2 years. It didn't help that (probabaly due to pnd) my husband and i split up when she was just 10 months old. I still worry now and feel soooooo guilty that when she was little i didn't love her or want her. I think she is well adjusted to say what she has gone through(we ended up homeless and moved 4 times in a year!). She's now 4 and a half and most of the time is a lovely, grown up and bright little girl but i do know that she picks up on my moods very easily and this can affect her behaviour in a negative way. I have also lived with depression for most of my adult life ginger kitty so i know what you mean about beeing able to switch it off til u get home as i do the same.

I suffered from PND really badly with dd1 (she's now 10) and am starting to get anxious that it may be raring it's ugly head again with dd2 (she's 16 weeks)

There used to be a questionaire in your red book but there isn't one in dd2's book.

I know I should go speak to my HV/GP but getting an appointment is impossible and I don't think baby clinic is the place to bring it up (I would bring it up then if it was as Scarlett has her last lot of injections on Tuesday)

One of my other concerns is that as it goes on your medical record it'll count against me in my application to go to uni (I want to either do medicine or midwifery)

Then I worry that I'm being irrational about not seeking help because I'm depressed or I'm being stupid and there's nothing wrong anyway- never ending cycle.

I don't think it's as bad as it was the first time round but I feel I'm slowly slipping to a place I REALLY don't want to go to. I guess I should speak to my oh about it as well but in a way I'm kind of embarressed about it and feel like a bit of a failure (which is totally stupid as he's wonderful)

Oh crickey I don't know how I feel anymore.

Is there any online questionaires anyone can recommend for me to have a look at? I did google it but it just brings tons of junk.

Hi, I suffered from PND, don't feel like a faliure, you're not! It's not your fault, its all those bleedin hormones flying around :rolleyes:

If you feel like you have it/ feel like its on its way, talk to your GP asap. Don't let it get hold of you properly. I left it for ages thinking I would get better without medication but I didn't, I got worse. I felt awful because I really wanted to enjoy my baby but I couldn't because I was so sad. It didn't stop me loving her or looking after her.

It's best to get it out of the way now than to keep quiet about it. If you see the doctor you will feel alot better in a couple of weeks :)

I hope you get things sorted x

I have no experience of depression or PND but please go and see your GP, they will be able to help you in some way.

Also, talk to your OH about how you're feeling as he probably knows something is up (apparently they're not as daft as they seem :suspect: ) but doesn't want to or know how to bring it up with you.

Whatever you do, don't feel like you're wasting anyones time because you are NOT.

***big hug***

Hi there, I have suffered depression on and of since the age of 18 and am now suffering PND with baby no.2 (although I didn't with baby no.1) You really should see your doctor before it really gets a grip, the longer you leave it the longer it will take to sort out.

Also are you sure about it counting against you on a uni application I would of thought that was discrimination and I would certainly check that point. It certainly shouldn't be a reason for not getting help.

I hope that everything works out for you.

Hi
Maybe this would help http://www.netmums.com/h/n/PND/HOME/sheffield/// the test you talked about is called the Edinbrough Scale and there is a link to the test on there and loads of help and info.
PND is nothing to be ashamed off, my GP says its a medical problem like any other and you don't have to suffer in silence
xx

Hi anniec I know exactly how your feeling but you know the best thing about this time round is that you have noticed your early signs. I noticed when im getting depressed my paraniod thoughts start to get worse and closer together till the point im terrified of everything. I also find it unable to cope eith even the smallest things. My attention span gets worse and I struggle to concentrate on anything. I used to be so against antideppressants because I wanted to be fully aware of my emotions. Hard to explain but though antideppressants make you feel more mediocre so the lows arent so extreme, I dont want the highs that come from being a mum and seeing your kids grow to be lessened by the effects of the tablets. Talking about it is probably the best thing and having a support from close friends and family. Dont feel like you are any less of a mummy though. It is usually the desire to want to do the best for your family that makes you feel like that. Which in itself makes you a pretty good mum in my book.
Its when you dont care that the problems start. I know its hard and think I know how your feeling. The only things that mean anything to me are being there for my kids and partner and his little boy. I want them to be happy and enjoy them all but feel like that is what I am failing at in the biggest way. We both seem to be arguing all the time yet dont doubt our feelings for each other and both want the same things. We are just both so worried and insecure about giving each other and the kids what they need we get down. Its a crazy world I guess. You just have to take each day as it comes and try and enjoy it for the simpiler things in life. Hope you feel better soon. xx

I know I shouldn't feel guilty or daft or any of those things but I do. I also know it's all in my head and not "real"

I will speak to my GP but I don't want pills even though they helped me last time - it took ages to find the right ones and I went through a horrible time with ones in between (side effects)

I just don't know if I'm coming or going.

Which pills did the prescribe to you last time? if you remember.

I have Fluoxitine (sp) I felt a bit tired for a couple of weeks, that has gone now. I had the same tablets when I was 18 (9 years ago) they made me feel awful then, they made my blood pressure low, dizzy etc That is reason I tried to get over the pnd without medication. In the end I had to try somthing to make me better.

Hi Ladies,

I studied PND as part of my post natal yoga training. We looked in depth at the Edinburgh scale PND test and it is useful to help to confirm if you are or aren't suffering at least (depends on ethnic grouping also).

Whilst medication can help, some mean that you aren't able to breast feed so aren't always the best solution.

Whilst not the be all and end all, we were recommended to encourage yoga and talking therapy groups so that women didn't feel isolated. The idea of the yoga was to help with bonding with your baby (mum and baby yoga) and the talking therapy was to help to express how you feel/felt.

Support from family/friends is vital, so I guess this forum is as good a place to start as any.

I have tried to research locally to find PND groups as a therapist friend in York said that they have one there. So far I have found little other than a contact at MIND but she specialises in the poorer areas of town.

Keep your chin up.

LL

(((HUGS)))
I can put you onto MIND if you want it but I'm not sure that will help in this instance, a lot of my counselling education was around MINDs ethos as I chose it as my particular favourite.
However, you know I'm there and I shall bug you for cups of tea and sharing of chocolate :)

cant say i know much in the way of advice or exsperiance about pnd but i do know that if you need a shoulder or ear to bend then im not far away (i know you have lot's of friend's for this). i know if iv got something stuck in my head, that talking it over lot's and with different people help's,so don't hesatate (sp).
also you'r one of the most loving and caring mom's i know and would also be one of the first i would go to for advice(i reckon you can guess the others and it would be first seen first asked lol)
so hope you start to get things going with you'r doc/hv and you'r oh and things start to clear for you soon. lots of hugs and warm wishes catx

Do go and ask for help! I remember my HV going through the Edinburgh Scale questionnaire with me and I lied about my answers cos I didn't want to appear like I couldn't cope (looking back I realise how daft that was!) I still came out "borderline" depressed and when the HV came to see me at home to see how I was doing, I put on a big act and pretended everything was fine. Looking back I so wish I had admitted how I felt, and got help.

I can't imagine that it would count against you in the future - why on earth would it? Yes they may ask medical questions - but they wouldn't turn you down if you'd once had a "physical illness" and taken medication would they, so there's no reason why this would be treated any differently.

(((HUGE HUGS)))
I didn't get help. That was a mistake. I still regret the time I had with cosycub feeling down and not appreciating and enjoying being with him as much as I should have done.

Get help, be absolutely open, don't fib, make sure your partner understands, and get doing stuff that makes you smile.

You know where I am, more or less...will help Zebra drag you out for chocolate and restorative tea in 3 weeks and one and a half days...xxxx

Totally agree with rinnie there ,you know where we are anniec and I know anyone of us will be there for you at anytime, get onto the docs as soon as hopefully, then you can get this sorted.Also you dont need to feel at all guilty about this you are a great mum you only have to look at your girls to see that.Loads of big hugs from me and Littleboo.

I've spoken to my oh about it and he more than most knows about depression (one of the reason I didn't want to bring it up as I didn't want to cause him to become so worried about me he gets ill) Needless to say he told me to not be silly and is going out of his way to help.

I'm going to speak to the HV on Tuesday and she can put me in to see the Dr at the same time (baby clinic has access to the GP if the HV feels you need it)

I do try to "put on a front" with not only the kids but everyone else. I guess this means I come across as pretty happy all the time and up beat and enthusiastic. I try to trick myself in to feeling happy - if I pretend to be I will be, doesn't work though lol.

I appreciate the offers from you all for ears and hugs and I'll def be taking Zebra and cosy up on the chocolate.

in regards to the yoga, not my thing I'm affraid. I'd feel like a right wally.

I really think that one of the reasons I'm not alot worse by now is because of Jelly's. I didn't have a resource like that last time round and being able to get out of the house and meet adults for a couple of hours 3 times a week has/is making a huge difference.

Hi
Maybe this would help http://www.netmums.com/h/n/PND/HOME/sheffield/// the test you talked about is called the Edinbrough Scale and there is a link to the test on there and loads of help and info

I done the test on Netmums and scored 20/30 so it looks like I do have PND ( I scored 28 last time round with dd1)

I'm def going to go to the Dr/HV on Tuesday. Just feel a bit daft and don't really know how to approach it or bring the subject up.

Having never heard of the Edinburgh scale though knowing a little about PND I went to have a look and try and put things into perspective.
I'm not a new mum but I've had a few things on my mind so figured I'd answer on the whole.
I scored 5 out of 30 which is normal everyday responses for most people.
On that basis it understandable that 20 is something to discuss with your GP.
In the meantime, we all know chocolate is an 'upper' so roll on the Galaxy! Yeah!

I know it's difficult to go to the doctor and tell him that you have got PND. I went and sat in the doctors reception 3 times and walked out before even seeing him. When I eventually plucked up the courage as soon as I started to speak I started crying and he knew straight away what the problem was.

After the intial fear of having to say what you think is wrong you will start to feel a little relief that you have got the first hurdle out the way and know that things can only get better!

I think thats what worries me. Getting there and either not saying anything or crying to much I can't talk. Why is being a mummy so tough???

If you're going on Tues I can come with you if you think it will help? I can jab you with a stick now and then to make you talk? Or might that make you cry?
I could be in wait with the chocolate if that's better?
Maybe I should just come hold the LO?

she's getting her injections on Tuesday also (thats the main reason for going) I don't know how it works, do you just walk through the door and say "em excuse me but I think I've got PND" they'll think I've lost the plot.

I appreciate you offering to come though very nice of you, your a good un.

You could try a different approach but I think best come to the point, sometimes there just won't be a best time.
I'd go for, 'After you've done the jobs I'd really like to see the GP please'. Then see if she/he needs an explanation or is willing to just go with it.

Edit: I once rang my mates docs when I realised she was in the depths of PND and spoke to her HV who was a star (unlike some we've heard of on here:suspect: ) , she popped in the next day and got it all sorted.
Could you ring your HV and have the chat in your own home?

I don't know. I was diagnosed last time at home doing the Edinburgh Scale test that used to be in the red book.

I suppose I could ring her tomorrow and see what she says. Might be easier to speak to her over the phone than face to face actually.

My health visitor has been a godsend. I went to take my LO for a check up and she realised straight away that I wasn't my usual self and suggested that I see the doctor and although when I eventually did make it through the door to see him the health visitor had made him aware of the situation.

She has continued to phone me from time to time to make sure I am ok and is always on hand, which is great as I don't have any family up here.

hmm..... I have just done the netmums test and came out with a score of 14.

I have been very down and have found it difficult to cope with the transition from being a full time working woman to being a full time mummy, maybe I need to try being a bit more positive......

Just a quick not although the edinburgh test is quite good my doctor said that he can take it on a bad day and come out way up the scale. So when you take it don't assume the worst it mayy be just a bad day/week. However don't ignore it if you really think you may be depressed

Well done for taking the first steps to getting some support. This makes you a brave person for thinking about tackling it and shows your strength, even though its scary. Whoever you see will not judge you, but will think you are very sensible and responsible for bringing this to them. If you collapse into tears, fear not, you wont be the first or the last. If you cant say the words depression, tell them you are not feeling great, and describe it and they will work it out. Something like "I know I have come for the injections, but wondered if I could discuss with you the way I have been feeling as I want to make sure I can be the best mum I can be" may get you started if you are not sure what to say. Or just the latter if you want to talk over the phone.

As menz says dont get hung up on the Ed PND scale or any of its friends as whilst they can be helpful there are reliability issues. In terms of the impact on your life and family, your subjective view is most important- if you feel terrible then you need and are entitled to support, regarless of what other people make of it. If you dont want meds, then try to get a referral for some talking therapy. It sounds like you have fought this before and you can do it again, and you seem to have lots of supportive friends so use this if you can :)

hmm..... I have just done the netmums test and came out with a score of 14.

I have been very down and have found it difficult to cope with the transition from being a full time working woman to being a full time mummy, maybe I need to try being a bit more positive......

One of the decent HVs we had, when the girls were tiny, once said to me that it takes a year to adapt to being parents. That thought has stuck with me and I would say she was right. I imagine it applies if your children were born with big gaps between births too.
There are so many changes it would be hard for anyone to keep it all together.
No work, no adult social integration after the initial whirl of visits, lack of sleep (which is SO bad for mental health), the new changes to home and routine and the fact that you have to put this little person or people first, all day everyday.
In your case I think you've had quite an emotional rollercoaster with LO's health scares and her recent feeding problems. You've done really well.
Keep an eye on it and keep your chin up, you're doing a sterling job.

The same goes for the many forum parents we see at Jellys, the evidence is there, you're all great! Jellys stands as testimony to that, you are the people who make the group, not me.

When I was tested by the HV I was borderline PND. So all they did was phone me a week after seeing me and asked me along to a playgroup. I said I would go, but didn't. I ended up crying during one of my DD's injection appointments and the nurse was very kind and booked me an appointment with the Dr to see them about PND, but I bottled out of the appointment.

I've come out of the other end dealing with it in my own way. I'm a strong believer in talking and sharing a problem, I think it helps you to come balance the problem and to put closure on it. So I have talked lots with (mainly to him) DH. I also found out by talking to other Mothers that PND affects more Mothers than you realise and that you shouldn't beat yourself up about it as I think more Mothers have it than don't. I also kept myself busy going to every playgroup that I could in my area and going out. I found staying in the house made me worse, I have visited Meadowhall and Crystal Peaks lots of times just to have a walk around when she was younger and couldn't go to the park etc.

It's really good that you can see that PND is starting to affect you. You could maybe bring it up at the baby clinic, as I do feel that the clinics are there for you to talk to the HV when you are having a problem.

Just a thought - why not write a little note that you can hand to the HV? I'm hopeless at explaining how I really feel, and my stock answer whenever anyone asks is 'im fine'. I remember someone telling me a long time ago whenever she hears people say 'I'm fine' she always thinks of FINE as being: Feelings Inside Not Expressed.

Writing a note will help avoid the 'what do I say' or 'If I try to talk I'll just cry and cry' feelings. If your HV is anything like mine she'll be a huge help and support to you.

Oh and when the chocolate is going round give me a shout! :thumbsup:

One of the decent HVs we had, when the girls were tiny, once said to me that it takes a year to adapt to being parents. That thought has stuck with me and I would say she was right. I imagine it applies if your children were born with big gaps between births too.
There are so many changes it would be hard for anyone to keep it all together.
No work, no adult social integration after the initial whirl of visits, lack of sleep (which is SO bad for mental health), the new changes to home and routine and the fact that you have to put this little person or people first, all day everyday.
In your case I think you've had quite an emotional rollercoaster with LO's health scares and her recent feeding problems. You've done really well.
Keep an eye on it and keep your chin up, you're doing a sterling job.

The same goes for the many forum parents we see at Jellys, the evidence is there, you're all great! Jellys stands as testimony to that, you are the people who make the group, not me.


Thanks Zebra, I really appreciate that, it always amazes me how strong the parents at jelly's are and I feel really small in comparison but reading this thread has shown me that things are not always as they seem. I have had a disability for a while which is worse with lack of sleep and lack of sleep makes it worse (vicious circle) so know what this can do.

Annie, you are a lovely warm person who I love to talk to at Jelly's........ I don't know you as well as some of the others do but I too am a good listener and would be willing to meet up for a coffee anytime. I hope you feel better soon.

The best (and most mortifying) thing this mummy did this time round was force myself to tell my midwife that I suffered PND last time; that I had told my HV of my worries but then informed her that as a lifelong sufferer of bouts of depression I'd let her know if I thought it was becoming a problem...and then she trusted me every time I told her I was 'fine'. Silly moo that i am.
So in an unexpected fit of honesty and self-preservation, I spilled my guts, and now it is all over my notes. Referrals are just waiting to be made at the first sign of a snuffle, lol.

Every time I look at my notes I think oh, for heavens sake...but I'm also quite glad I shopped myself. There's nothing weak or wimpy or shameful or bad-mummy about PND, and admitting to it and getting it sorted is the best, bravest and strongest thing you can do.

Big hugs to all of you who are feeling the effects, hang on in there, it will pass. xxx

thanks everyone for your advise/tips. I'll let you know how i get on on tuesday.

I just scored 21 / 30 on the test :( Like AnnieC though I wouldnt know what to do, I'd never be able to walk into the doctors and say 'help I keep crying' :blush: My HV's are useless, I've burst into tears on them before and nothing is done. I'm not sure its PND though, I think mine is due to stress as its been a long time coming, way before baby no 3 arrived. I'm not entirely sure how comfortable I'd be with admitting it to the doctors either, I've managed with things for so long that I think I'd feel any professionals were 'butting in' now if they tried to help - basically we seem to have fallen out of the system years ago and recieved no help or counselling with anything.

its just taken me ages to write that /\ like everyone else, lifes bearable in public...if everyone thinks you're coping well, its when you're alone that you struggle cos its something you don't want anyone else to know

Sorry to hear the way you have been feeling honeyb35. The professionals you could get referred to would be a lot better with this sort of thing, than those you have met who are not really trained for it, despite often doing their best, or just not knowing what to do for the best. I understand that you may not want their help, particularly given that you have not had a good response in the past, but you also dont have to just put up with feeling crap and are entitled to support, if you feel at any point you could try it :)

I'm a sufferer of PND too (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=3721836&postcount=5), I've not had the greatest of days today.. but hey, its the weekend and hopefully I can recharge some batteries.

I never did the Edinburgh scale test... I was offered it at our 6 week check (at 8.5 weeks!) but as i'd already been back on antiDs for 7 weeks by then I thought it a little pointless!

I'm managing most of the time, but sometimes I just have bad days/weeks :(

I can usually put on a 'normal' face when going out, then fall apart when I get home. I'm never sure if thats a bad thing or not...??

Most importantly, I know despite this illness that I'm a great mummy, Ed is so happy and smily and giggly and wants for nothing. I just wish that more people would understand depression as an illness and not a 'not coping' 'feeling sad' 'not loving baby' thing....

I also was a bit 'creative' with the truth when I was tested at 7 weeks, and still came out borderline. I was told to come to a new parents' group but didn't have transport and it was miles away so I never did go. Nothing else was offered, but I did volunteer that I'd overcome depression once before as I had M.E. in my teens/early 20s (didn't tell them I got dependent on the ADs I was given with no other treatment options though), so that's probably why.

When Jamie was 10 weeks old we started going to a local baby group and signing classes run by the same woman. Even though I'm now 180 miles away from her she's become one of my closest friends, she really made me feel welcome and needed. Gradually we began going to other groups too, until I was a bit of a familiar face at several groups and NCT events etc.

It took time, but it was what helped me most. I don't really have many friends that aren't online - a throwback to when I was too ill to go out/see anyone. When I took the test again at 8 months, I was honest and got a much lower score. I've had a few moments since moving up here, but that's because I've not been going out that much - I'm getting back into the swing of it, having been to Jellys twice this week now.

I'm sorry we didn't chat for long today, Annie, but it was nice to be formally introduced to Scarlett after cooing over her on Wednesday. :) Good luck with getting some help, I can't say whether it would effect any applications etc., it never occurred to me that it might hinder my chances of being a psychologist, but I've never had to disclose any medical info yet, and I'm doing an MSc course now.

I just scored 21 / 30 on the test :( Like AnnieC though I wouldnt know what to do, I'd never be able to walk into the doctors and say 'help I keep crying' :blush: My HV's are useless, I've burst into tears on them before and nothing is done. I'm not sure its PND though, I think mine is due to stress as its been a long time coming, way before baby no 3 arrived. I'm not entirely sure how comfortable I'd be with admitting it to the doctors either, I've managed with things for so long that I think I'd feel any professionals were 'butting in' now if they tried to help - basically we seem to have fallen out of the system years ago and recieved no help or counselling with anything.

Aw honey, I had no idea, last I saw you were another one doing a fabulous job of looking the perfect mum with everything in hand and under control.
Frankly, given the info you present in your sig about Matty, you are another one who amazes me for your strength and determination in your purpose and your care for your children.
Do see your docs if you feel you can gain any help.

Furthermore, I'm currently in communication with Sheffield PCT to try and get a HV down at Jellys, a good one of course, so any parents who cannot approach their own could speak to one at Jellys, get their LO's weighed and any other bits and pieces you'd like.
I'm even gonna go to the lengths of specifiying a certain one I'd like if we can get it arranged at all.

Hi,
I am sorry but I haven't been to Jellytots before (sounds wonderful though), I also know little about self help groups but if anyone does, it sounds as if it would be a great idea to get a group set up. One where everyone can talk in a baby friendly environment and feel it's OK to express how they really feel without judgement, just support (and chocolates!).

What do you think?

LL

Carefully playing devils advocate, I wonder if a PND group is the ideal, would other women with PND be the best support to one another? I would imagine that previous sufferers would be fantastic, but where would the appeal be for a sufficient amount of them to attend?
A generic group, any generic group, providing you have friends there and it's a suitable environment and you can bring it up, should be a good place.

I'd suggest a peer counselling scheme on a formal or informal basis. I have counselling qualifications, incomplete as yet but still with 3 years under my belt, at the very least I could put together a good listening guide.
Perhaps it's something we could have online? The guide I mean, of course :D

In completion, I don't dismiss the idea, I think it could be very good but I do wonder about the practicality of such a singular group.

I gather from AnnieC that Jellytots may have staved off the onslaught, perhaps normality helps? I really don't know. But I'm willing to be educated by those who do.

I wonder if we can get funding for chocolate? :)

LilMissAlien it should not hinder your chance of becoming a psychologist (assuming you mean clinical) as long as it is handled on applications appropriately :)

I've never been to Jellies and only met one person on here (you know who you are)! but, it strikes me that there's something really lovely about being able to put faces to names and do the normal 'social' thing with the babies and then also be able to express your feelings on here when you have the time and space to do so.

We see people who always look to be coping perfectly well and we envy them but then we find out that we're all the same - we all have our ups and down's, and can be vulnerable underneath the super-efficient smiles.

I'd love to be able to get to Jellies some time and meet everyone because it sounds like a very supportive network and that's invaluable.

I'd love to be able to get to Jellies some time and meet everyone because it sounds like a very supportive network and that's invaluable.
And you will, possibly Wednesday next week?

Yes women with PND would be v good support for each other & its a great idea but ideally with an appropriate facilitator. It would be important to think about safeguards and how issues raised could be contained and managed, which is why its difficult to do these things without the service infrastructure/links with appropriate services. If it was an informal friendship group without any lines of responsibility this is different, but its difficult to do this without someone taking the lead, and thus assuming some sort of responsibility which may be a bit much/risky for someone. Oh, how things which should be simple are complicated these days :rolleyes:

Pending an imminent arrival (she had the hot curry earlier) LOL Wednesday would be good - how nervous will I be though! Talking on here and meeting people in my own home is one thing - going out in real life is quite another!

Don't worry we beat the nasty ones with a big stick :)
I jest of course, everyone is lovely :) And they all like Bonny junior already.
Going back on topic, you'll find it a supportive group:)

Aw honey, I had no idea, last I saw you were another one doing a fabulous job of looking the perfect mum with everything in hand and under control.
Frankly, given the info you present in your sig about Matty, you are another one who amazes me for your strength and determination in your purpose and your care for your children.
Do see your docs if you feel you can gain any help.

Furthermore, I'm currently in communication with Sheffield PCT to try and get a HV down at Jellys, a good one of course, so any parents who cannot approach their own could speak to one at Jellys, get their LO's weighed and any other bits and pieces you'd like.
I'm even gonna go to the lengths of specifiying a certain one I'd like if we can get it arranged at all.

(((zebra))) I did learn something in GCSE drama after all :hihi:
A HV down there is a good idea, the only thing that worries me is if they clash - i.e own useless HV says something, then a nice one at jellys tells you something different - could you play them off against each other? :D
I AM going to manage jellys in the holidays, I AM I AM!! Littlestarshine says so :hihi:

LilMissAlien it should not hinder your chance of becoming a psychologist (assuming you mean clinical) as long as it is handled on applications appropriately :)

I've never been diagnosed with depression in any form, just M.E. (when I was 17) which resulted in a crappy doctor throwing antidepressants at me to get me to go away because she didn't believe in M.E. as an actual condition. So I know that won't hinder my chances because there shouldn't be anything on my medical records. It's just in response to a previous post worrying about similar I realised it had never even occurred to me that it may have been a problem! Just as well my HV only put me down as borderline and didn't check up on me! I'm training to be a Health Psychologist, which is a new branch developed from Clinical (Similar to what has previously been called a Clinical Health Psychologist).

There is a national Postnatal Illness (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3037/2631873481_cf38d1a161.jpg?v=0) support group with a forum and lots of info. When I lived in Hertfordshire there was a local Postnatal Illness (http://www.postnatalillness.co.uk/) charity set up by recovered sufferers. There are lots of articles on that site, many of them describing more severe postnatal psychosis involving hospital admission etc. So it is possible to set something up which may be more patient-led as it were.

I wanted to look at PNI and Birth trauma for my research this year, but one of my tutors said it was too risky as I'm not a medical professional, and the other said that apparently pregnancy and childbirth are 'over medicalised' and not considered to be part of Health Psychology!!! However, very little psychology seems to focus on that area which is weird to me as it is a huge life changing event. I would have thought the very fact that it is medicalised warrants research in itself - ie. why is birth treated like something that needs to be 'fixed' in the majority of women, when really it is the minority who need intervention.

Bloody hell.. you lot know how to get a girl crying :(


I have never had PND but i do have off days where i could sit and cry, and i have been known to break down on the doctor when i get the dreaded "and how are things at home?" question, even if things are prefectly fine that question gets me in the back of my throat.

I did the test and i scored 5/30.

I am a big believer in getting yourself out there, theres nothing better than having a chin wag while the kids play. I go to two groups a local one to me and Jelly's and if it wasnt for those and going out with my friends once in a while i would be lost.

Only the Pope is infallable, so go to the bloddy health visitor no matter how up thier own backsides they are and have a cry, anniec and honeyb i have seen you with you children and i all think your both fantastic mothers! Annie i think you have offers enough for hugs and chats so i think my services aren't needed but honeyb my my my! My door is always open and lambrini is always in my fridge, i am sooooooooooo good at having a cry, chat or a whinge :D

Zebra i think thats a great idea about the group :D

(oh and honey will be coming to jelly's during the hols... even if i have to drag her :D)

littlestarshine,get dragging we really need to meet honeyb35 and the LOs, I am sure she will enjoy Jellys everyone does.

Bloody hell.. you lot know how to get a girl crying :(


I have never had PND but i do have off days where i could sit and cry, and i have been known to break down on the doctor when i get the dreaded "and how are things at home?" question, even if things are prefectly fine that question gets me in the back of my throat.

I did the test and i scored 5/30.

I am a big believer in getting yourself out there, theres nothing better than having a chin wag while the kids play. I go to two groups a local one to me and Jelly's and if it wasnt for those and going out with my friends once in a while i would be lost.

Only the Pope is infallable, so go to the bloddy health visitor no matter how up thier own backsides they are and have a cry, anniec and honeyb i have seen you with you children and i all think your both fantastic mothers! Annie i think you have offers enough for hugs and chats so i think my services aren't needed but honeyb my my my! My door is always open and lambrini is always in my fridge, i am sooooooooooo good at having a cry, chat or a whinge :D

Zebra i think thats a great idea about the group :D

(oh and honey will be coming to jelly's during the hols... even if i have to drag her :D)

:o you said the 'L' word! <<gets shoes on

I've never been diagnosed with depression in any form, just M.E. (when I was 17) which resulted in a crappy doctor throwing antidepressants at me to get me to go away because she didn't believe in M.E. as an actual condition. So I know that won't hinder my chances because there shouldn't be anything on my medical records. It's just in response to a previous post worrying about similar I realised it had never even occurred to me that it may have been a problem! Just as well my HV only put me down as borderline and didn't check up on me! I'm training to be a Health Psychologist, which is a new branch developed from Clinical (Similar to what has previously been called a Clinical Health Psychologist).

There is a national Postnatal Illness (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3037/2631873481_cf38d1a161.jpg?v=0) support group with a forum and lots of info. When I lived in Hertfordshire there was a local Postnatal Illness (http://www.postnatalillness.co.uk/) charity set up by recovered sufferers. There are lots of articles on that site, many of them describing more severe postnatal psychosis involving hospital admission etc. So it is possible to set something up which may be more patient-led as it were.

I wanted to look at PNI and Birth trauma for my research this year, but one of my tutors said it was too risky as I'm not a medical professional, and the other said that apparently pregnancy and childbirth are 'over medicalised' and not considered to be part of Health Psychology!!! However, very little psychology seems to focus on that area which is weird to me as it is a huge life changing event. I would have thought the very fact that it is medicalised warrants research in itself - ie. why is birth treated like something that needs to be 'fixed' in the majority of women, when really it is the minority who need intervention.

One of my peers suffered ME/Chronic Fatigue shortly before training and I think possibly also depression. Even if there was something mental health related on your records it shouldnt matter as long as it is contained. There are new chronic fatigue services in sheffield now which seem pretty good but then I dont work there. The post natal charities look interesting. I am also interested in post natal psychology. One of the tutors on the sheffield clinical training course specialises on research in this area and it is a recognised area. I am keen to do some more research at this point. Dont quite understand what your tutor means. I work in health and medical (as a clinical psychologist-currently in paediatrics) and quite a few of my friends work in the health and medical division at the hallamshire as psychologists. One of my friend did her clinical psychology training doctorate research on birth related PTSD. All the conditions we work with are medicalised- that is the point of working in health and medical as a psychologist. However, I dont know much about the parameters of health psychology only training route to be able to comment on that. If you want to pursue this sort of research once you are qualified and more at liberty to do what you like I know someone you can contact :)

I have Fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome (both almost identical to ME), my old gp used to try and fob me off with medication but I never took them. I knew that he just wanted rid of me. I have had depression before and it is on my medical records.

I went for a job and was offered it half an hour after I left the interview, they sent me for a medical as a standard part of the process and asked to access my medical records. When they were told that I had suffered from depression they withdrew the offer of employment. If it happened now I would sue them but at the time I just felt cheated and got another job. My depression has never returned so far.

Estelle

Try Home-Start Sheffield as they offer confidential and non-judgemental one to one and group support services for women suffereing from post-natal illness.

Michelle.

I read an interesting theory about this in Oliver James' They F***k You Up'. Apparently, a baby's cortisol levels are unfluenced by their main carer's treatment, so according to this, if the main carer is depressed and/or anxious then the baby's cortisol levels will rise. At a very young age (I think it was around 3-5 years of age) a child's cortisol levels become pretty much fixed for life.

Duplicate post.:confused:

More about this in Why Love Matters by Sue Gerhardt. Best not to get hung up about this though. One of the main issues is that its hard to be sensitively responsive, consistent and loving to your baby if you are depressed as you may have a tendency to want ot withdraw from them, but this is something you can work on if you know its important, and with the support from those around you :)

Well I went to the Dr yesterday and he has given me anti-D's. I've to go back in two weeks to see how I'm getting on. So I'll update the thread with the progress of the happy pills which at the moment are just making me feel sick!

Well I've come back to this thread after 3 weeks of starting the pills, just to update. I've read through some of the previous posts and on the subject of a peer support group for people with PND i personally think this is a terrible idea. Surely someone who is depressed themselves will not be able to help another person who is also in the dark gloomy place?

I can think of nothing worse than sitting a round with a bunch of people who are all doom and gloom. When I get out to meet people I want to be able to forget about my problems which if your doing things that don't totally focus on how you feel then this will help you to get out of the rut.

I went back to the Dr last week and as I haven't really had any side effects from the happy pills he gave me so he's doubled the dose and i think they are working! I've had a few really good days which is brilliant. I'm starting to feel optimistic again and can see a light at the end of the tunnel.

So thanks for the responses so far everyone.

Glad to hear they're working for you Annie.

I agree with you in a way - for some women talking about having PND to a group of others could make it worse. On the other side of the coin it could help equally as many. I would only ever talk PND online where I could fairly well cover my identity, but I stayed away from any groups like that because I know I would have just broken down in tears all the time.

What helped me was getting out to stuff to do with Baby Alien. Not so much baby groups as I'm not great in social situations (I feel my social skills can be very limited at times - thanks M.E.!), but to classes and such. The one that worked best for us was baby signing and we really enjoyed going along. We got on really well and I felt it really gave me some meaning, so I joined the team and began training to be a teacher myself (as you can see from my sig, lol!). I know it sounds like I'm shamelessly self-promoting, but I'm really not - it was what worked for us and I would now always recommend that anyone who is struggling finds what helps them the most. For some that is talking, others medication and others getting out and doing stuff. On the 'doing stuff' front, whether it be baby massage/yoga/signing/swimming/music or something else entirely, it really helped me when I was struggling to bond with him, adapt to motherhood, and believe that I really was a good Mum.

What happens when you go to the doctors? Do they just give you pills or do they send you to the HV first.

I'm not sure whats going on with me. I've been struggling for a while but I put that down to life having thrown some really nasty balls our way.

But the last few days I've been struggling really quite badly and have worried myself a little.

I feel really guilty as the bug is such a wonderful baby and we went through so much to have her and I love her so so much so what is wrong with me. Surely I should be able to cope with anything as long as I have her?

Sorry

Ollie, I've pm'd you, sorry it was so long. I think I got carried away.

What happens when you go to the doctors? Do they just give you pills or do they send you to the HV first.

I'm not sure whats going on with me. I've been struggling for a while but I put that down to life having thrown some really nasty balls our way.

But the last few days I've been struggling really quite badly and have worried myself a little.

I feel really guilty as Annabel is such a wonderful baby and we went through so much to have her and I love her so so much so what is wrong with me. Surely I should be able to cope with anything as long as I have her?

Sorry
Why should you automatically be able to cope? Parenting is really hard, the hardest thing I've ever done and if so many other things have happened you are completely entitled to feel out of your depth and struggle.

I can't advise, I know little to nothing about it but I can always offer a hot cuppa and a helping hand at Jellys.

Have to agree with Zebra, Olliekitten!

Baby Alien wasn't planned and it was all a bit overwhelming for us, but due to my health issues and the uncertainty that I would ever be able to carry a pregnancy to term we felt it could be my only chance and went ahead with it. That doesn't mean I was able to cope with it - parenting is like nothing I've ever known before. In many ways I feel I've completely lost myself to being in a (flexible) routine and constantly being one step ahead of Jamie just to feel that everything isn't spinning horribly out of control. I still have hideously bad days but they're getting fewer and further apart now.

Even though I feel that I don't always cope that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the fact that I was able to have him, and that I am a Mum now. I'm sure deep down it is the same for you. You obviously love her to bits and do your absolute best by her. We're not Superwomen and some days may be worse than others.

Thank you for your messages and the pms I got. I just feel so cross with myself. The bug deserves so much and I feel like I'm failing her by being miserable.

I actually wrote a really long post and my computer crashed so I lost it, which is probably a good job as it was just whinging.

The bug is so wonderful and I love her so entirely. She is such a gorgeous little girl, so lovely. The PND hasn't affected the way I feel about her at all, she is amazing.

Lilmiss, a couple of my friends have said what you said about not being superwoman, but its hard to give yourself a break sometimes.

Everything has gone wrong recently, everything - which is why at first I thought I was just reacting to how bad some things had gone, but then the last few days, or week, its just got awful. I can't sleep for the most horrific nightmares, and sometimes I can't talk without crying.

Sorry that I've been distant on this thread - its probably because it brings back memories for me of those early days. I too loved my little one dearly, but certain things just made me find the whole thing so overwhelming and difficult. Motherhood is a tough thing, and that is without extra problems getting in the way.

Whilst we are all expected to cope, doing so is often much harder than that. Talking about your feelings, and crying is good. I felt bad for crying, and was concerned I was slipping into depression which I had suffered from for years prior to pregancy and motherhood. The things that helped me most were -


talking about it

seeking advice and help. I actually went to see a Hypnotherapist, who really helped me to put things in perspective and understand that my limitations would not adversely affect me or my little one long term.

What happens when you go to the doctors? Do they just give you pills or do they send you to the HV first.
Doctors are in a far better position to speak to you about depression, and should not refer you to a hv.

see you soon ollie xx

A quick post from me as I don't think I have any answers :(

I just want to send you a *HUGGGGGGGGG* olliekitten, I know just how you are feeling at the mo, I'm as low as I've ever been, and desperate... finally I've got referred on to something more useful than online CBT :loopy: but I still have to wait til the end of october :(

Being a mum is hard work, especially when you've gone through as much as you have to get Annie, you've had soooooooo much to cope with that its no wonder that you are feeling the way you do, *HUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG* more ;) I'm sure Annie is doing fabulously, it certainly sounds like it, now all we all have to do is work on ourselves :(

I'm sure we'll all get there soon :)

Em
xx

I found out about a postnatal depression group which is running at the
moment. It is FREE. It is being run by a midwife called Charlie Armitage her
number is 0771 357 2028. It is held on Tuesday mornings at Shirley
House which is 31 Psalter Lane - next to St Andrews Church. It is a mum’s group like any other, but has some professional as well as peer support.

I don't have any other details, so for more info please feel free to contact Charlie directly

What happens when you go to the doctors? Do they just give you pills or do they send you to the HV first.

I'm not sure whats going on with me. I've been struggling for a while but I put that down to life having thrown some really nasty balls our way.

But the last few days I've been struggling really quite badly and have worried myself a little.

I feel really guilty as Annabel is such a wonderful baby and we went through so much to have her and I love her so so much so what is wrong with me. Surely I should be able to cope with anything as long as I have her?

Sorry

Lose the guilt! Easier said than done, but the feelings you have right now aren't something you have control over. You don't need to insist you love your little one, we know you do. But you can feel so desperate and so tired and lost and your hormones can get so screwy that you can end up feeling overwhelmed. As much as I love my boys, for instance, I have my moments ( like now) when I wonder what on earth I was thinking having kids. Admitting these awful thoughts has been hard, but it helped me realize I was not alone and not a freak...just struggling for whatever reason. I'm hoping I am just having a bad couple of days but if it doesn't pass soon I'll seek help. I know from last time that it is best to sort it out than struggle on in silence, for all of you.
And as has already been said, talk about it. Your partner needs to know how you feel, your doc and hv can offer help, and other parents can help you realize that you so aren't alone. :)

Ollie, your best going to speak to someone about this sooner rather than later. I left it 6 months to go and see my Dr, and by the time I did I hated myself and was ready to give up my little boy. Its hard for me to admit so, but I even lied on the questionnaire the HV gave me to see if I had PND because I thought they'd think I was crazy.

PND got to me so badly me and my now ex split up over it, and I packed my bags and threw away my mobile. Looking back on it now it was a pretty stupid thing to do, but that was my ultimate cry for help, I was gone for 5 days before I was found. I have no idea what happened in those 5 days, even now I don't remember.

Getting pills isn't going to be a miracle cure over night, it took some long hard counseling, and a lot of support from friends and family, without them I don't know what I would have done.

What I guess I'm trying to say is you aren't alone, more women out there suffer PND that you realize, and there are advice and support places out there,

Good luck hun, chin up x

Hi
I had my little girl 7 weeks ago. Everything was going great until about 3 weeks ago, I started crying for no reason. I keep pushing my partner away and wont talk to him about anything. Every little thing seems to get me down. I cant sleep anymore until about 3 - 4o'clock in morning then im havein to get up at 8 with kids. The only thing that seems to be keeping me sane are the kids. I've tryed getting an appointment to see the doctor but they havent got any appointments for a week. All my friends seem to busy to talk to and i dont think they would understand. I havent got anyone in my family i could talk to. So has anyone else had postnatal depression? How do you make it disappear? Any help would be great.

I had PND, took me while to get over it as I didn't go to the docs (chickened out).

I think that my PND was caused by a number of reasons, loss of my previous life (first child), problems at birth, baby doodle hosptilised at 5 days, been overwhelmed with the whole looking after a baby and the responsbility of it, lack of sleep. Not knowing what I'm doing and feeling that I've been chucked in the deep end and I'm barely trending water, well sinking really.

PND happens for lots of reasons and it is more common that you realise. I didn't take any medication, which other people say has helped them, mainly because I didn't go to the doctors and admit my PND. Maybe if I had, it wouldn't have lasted as long. I think I finally got over my PND (and every day I would feel slightly better - it was a slow realisation that life was good), as I started to feel better about being a Mum, I finally bonded with baby doodle, I felt I had my head above water and I could deal with all the problems and the unexpected. I realised I had support from my Hubby - I finally explained it to him and had his support rather than the arguing like we had been doing.

PND is not nice and if you do need somebody to talk to, or just message, pm me as I think it does help to talk.

I too have PND, i'm really really bad at times and have escaped hospitalisation by the skin of my teeth a couple of months ago

My son is now 10 1/2 months and after 3 different kinds of antiDs I'm finally feeling almost human again.

PND (along with antenatal depression) is so bad because its one of the most debilitating problems at a time in your life when you want to feel so happy.

I have to say that without the drugs I'd not be here now, but the support of my other half, some fabulous friends and family and my wonderful smiling boy have gone a long way in getting me this far...

*hugs* to you, we're here if you need to rant

xx

I've been fortunate in escaping PND, though I've travelled part of the journey with two friends who did.
If you can, ring the surgery and ask to speak to a doctor, I doubt very much they'll turn you away once they know what the problem is. Most GPs will ring you back and then make an immediate appointment once they know the story. There is no judgement, you are at the mercy of hormones.
You can get anti depressants which could be making all the difference to you by Christmas Day and which will, generally, continue to accumulate and by 2009 it could turn everything around for you.
It isn't immediate but it should soon kick in.
Otherwise, old fashioned advice like a good walk could help a little, exercise stimulates all the right 'feel good' chemicals inside you.
I hope you can see a doctor and not suffer this needlessly.

PND can be hugely debilitating, and anyone who has brushed with depression will know that it can be incredibly isolating. Do contact your doctor, there are plenty of things you can do, admitting that you have an issue is part of the battle itself! I've had a long history with depression, counselling anti-d's, antenatal depression and PND. I found one of the most difficult things was that it is so taboo to talk about depression in so many circumstances, and it really shouldn't be. A huge percentage of the population suffer to some degree or another at some point in their lives!

The thing that really lifted me in the end was hypnotherapy. It's not for everyone I know, but it really worked for me. A number of other complementary therapy;s which treat the body and the mind "holistically" can be incredibly powerful for all manner of things.

Do seek help, there is plenty out there, and Zebra is right, I'm sure that if you call the GPs and ask to speak to a Doctor they will get one to call you back. You may also consider "Parent Lifeline" 0114 2726575, I can't vouch for it, as I've never used it, but I'm sure there would be someone there you could talk to, and if need be point you in the right direction.

Definately exercise is fantastic, so walking is great. Speak to people, spend time with others, discuss your issues. there are plenty of people out there who want to make friends and spend time with others. :)

Best wishes :)

I agree with all that Zebra just said.
Despite the drugs now working, I'm still out every single day, with Ed or without. The walk, the fresh air and the daylight all do you good, as does talking to other people. Join toddler groups, go to Jellytots (see Zebra's signature!) go round to a friend's for coffee, all helps, all keeps you a bit more sane!

But most of all you really should see your GP and/or your health visitor (if you have a decent one who knows the different between elbow and *ahem* bottom!!). Persevere and nag and shout and stage a sit-in in the waiting room if you have to.

Best of luck with it all and I hope you feel better soon

xx

Thanks everyone. i rung doctors again but couldnt fit me in. ive got to ring back in morning and get an emergency appoinment for tommorrow once id stopped crying and she could understand what i was saying to her. Ive spoke to my other half but he just doesnt understand. He thinks im better on my own. Hes no good with people crying. I think i might even take the dog for a walk tommorrow to see if that helps a bit. Thanks again everyone.

was signed in on my other halfs account the aboves me lol

I've merged this with my thread on the same subject. There is a lot of good advice on here that may be usuful for you.

I am now off of the anti-d's and feel great again so there is light at the end of the tunnel!

Had another mega merge, seems like putting everything of this nature in one place may help.

I'm still firmly in the tunnel with very little view of the light.. :(

the drugs are working, but I'm still not right :(

Ed is a year old soon :(

Awww GK, I'm sorry to hear that. Can you go for a review with your doc? Would it help?

I'm sure someone will come along who has something much more useful to say, all I can offer is virtual hugs.

I'm still seeing a psychiatrist regularly, I'm on my 3rd medication and have the health visitor and surestart keeping an eye on me...

sadly, i think this is as good as it gets at the moment :(

I'm currently 13 weeks with my 3rd pregnancy. We were told we probably wouldnt conceive naturally as I have polycystic ovaries and we were refused Ivf.

We had kind of come to terms with this and got on with bringing Beth up to be a happy fullfilled only child (our first daughter Lauren died at 2hours)

Then 10 weeks ago I got those familiar old signs and decided to take a test, although never believing it would be positive having took loads of negative tests over the last 4 years.

Well of course to our shock we had done it, and for a few days I walked around in a haze of disbelief. As it sunk in I begun to feel flat and unhappy which was like a punch to the ribs because I always imagined if it did happen again we would be dancing on the roof.

It quickly turned to panic and anxiety attacks. I actually thought I was going to die.

Been to GP and although he has been lovely to me and diagnosed antenatel depression, theres nothing he can do as I dont want to take antidepressants so early in pregnancy. I can honestly say I have never felt this low and I dont know where I go from here

Been to GP and although he has been lovely to me and diagnosed antenatel depression, theres nothing he can do as I dont want to take antidepressants so early in pregnancy. I can honestly say I have never felt this low and I dont know where I go from here

I think your feelings are completely understandable and normal given your past experience and the difficulty you have had trying for another baby.

I am an experienced birth doula and would be very pleased to support you through your pregnancy and your birth if you would like to contact me.

Best wishes,
Michelle.
www.sheffieldbirthdoula.com

Hi Bethsmummy, it's a shame that you've ended up in such a position when you expected something quite different, however, what's amazing is that you fully recognise it and you're here, discussing it and asking for ideas. That's a hell of a step in the right direction.

I gather, from training and discussion with others, that the antidepressants you can take during pregnancy are pretty safe but there are a million other things you can do to help yourself besides.

I'd suggest, given your history, that a counsellor might be a good idea. Mind is on Wostenholme Rd in SHeffield. It's free, they usually have short waiting period and they are very good. You might also benefit from something more specialised but I'm not sure of which agencies provide that. Something like Bliss, Cots or similar. Someone on here will know that better than me and hopefully can share that info. If not, try calling them to find out about their service. Alternately your GP or Mind can provide a similar option for contact.

Keep talking to people, keep seeking help and keep busy. Being outdoors, even in the poor winter sun is very good and the combination of sun and exercise is more powerful than most people realise.
Consider seasonal affective disorder as possibly playing a part too, you might benefit from a day light lamp which I believe are on offer on Amazon right now.

Best of luck :)

You aren't alone. I really wanted a second child, but when I fell pregnant with him, I very quickly felt flat and colourless, and then worried and paranoid. I began to wonder if I'd done the right thing, and then I'd feel guilty about that.
I had also expected to feel like I was in control because it was the second time around. On the contrary, I felt less in control, because this time I was more aware of all the things that could go wrong.

Talk to people, don't bottle it up. Do stuff, like Strix suggests, especially things that help you feel in control. Get out and walk, etc. Take whatever help you can find.

And remember, it won't last forever. Soon enough you'll be watching your children together and it'll all be worth it, with the bad stuff a memory. :)

Thankyou. all of you its nice to know people care. I may give Mind a call it sounds like that may be helpful. Its such a wierd feeling when you so want the pregnancy but your not
happy and you dont know why

Hi Bethsmummy!
I'm a fellow sufferer... well, I was while pregnant! I suffered A.N.D. from about 10 weeks in until the end, with a small respite in the middle when i relented and took citalopram.

I suffered badly with depression, and at the end suffered too with anxiety. I had a problem with everything being out of my control. Sadly I also had problems convincing the registrars and consultants (not at Jessops!) of the way I was thinking and how they could help me. They seemed to think that i was just being silly, this really didn't help :(

Anyway, enough of that!

The few things that I have found before then and since that help are:

Drugs: Obviously, but in pregnancy its not an easy decision to take them and most docs WILL try to put you off. But if they are right for you, they will help, and help baby in the longrun!

Daylight: Get out, get out as much as you can!! Go for walks in the sun (when it appears) even cloudy days can help as you still get sunlight. Or do as someone has already suggested and get a lightbox. They are great :)

Exercise: Get as much exercise as you can, walking will do, but exercise releases endorphins and they do counter the depression quite a lot :)

Fish oil: Seriously! I wish someone had told me this while I was pregnant, I only discovered it by accident since and have found out that Community Mental health here only tend to mention it as a last resort, despite the fact that it WORKS!
Find some high strength EPA OMEGA 3 (not 6 or 9!) capsules and take them; eat lots of oily fish too if you can manage it.
I've not found anyone who's not had a benefit from them, and it certainly makes your brain work a lot better :) I've even managed to lower my meds since going on them, and they were initially trying to increase my meds AND give me lithium!!! :o :o :o

Anyway, thats all I can think of for now :)

Hope it helps a bit and remember you're not on your own

Em
xx

My daughter is now 9 months old but i've only just started to read about PND. My partner started commenting on how grumpy i was, commenting on the fact im sleeping more and that im crying more often. i dont really notice but i do know that when im happy it takes only the smallest thing to get me down. i dont hate my daughter, i love her to bits and if anything im too overprotective of her, but somtimes i dont know what to do, she'll want attention but when i try and play with her toys with her or read to her she doesnt seem interested and seems to push me away. i still try but the more she pushes me away and doesnt seem to want to play the less i try and then i see her looking at me as if shes not quite sure what she should be doing and i feel bad for not trying to help more.

I have been feeling totally inadequate this past few weeks, i've felt like im doing no one no good. i've had my family falling out with me, my dad doesnt want to be in my life and my brother has now fallen out with me because i got over upset and cried to my mum and they all turned on my partner....i dont have many friends round at all, in honesty the only people that visit in a week is my partners mum and nan and even thats rare.

I feel so bad because its becuase of my family fueds that my daughter doesnt have any friends to play with...there are more personal problems i am not going to make public but there are a few family members, very close to me that i havent seen for ages...some 7 years some a year and it tears me up inside...

My partner makes me so happy, i love him to bits and although he makes mistakes (he has OCD) he tries his best to support me but sometimes it gets to us too much, especially with all the family problems too.

My daughter gets everything she needs, she eats like a horse, she has toys galore, i'd never hurt her and i certainly want to give her everything she needs- i've been so nervous about asking advice cause i dont know how people will react and to be honest i just want some advice, i've tried not to put too much personal information down simpy for the fact its personal and this is my problem not my families.

Thank you

Oh poor you.. I had PND after having my son and it is truly awful.
I would highly reccomend you go and see your GP or HV. They will be able to help you.

If you go onto the netmums web site there is a PND section of the forum which is really helpful.

You sound like a really loving good mum so just remember that!

I feel like im doing alot of things wrong to be honest Mrso and i feel so bad when i get grumpy with my partner cause he doesnt know what hes done wrong...I feel like ive got no one else around me even though my partner is there for me to talk too theres no one else and he blames himself for that too :(

I think it's hard for partners of women going through PND.
I felt like when i was having a bad day I was taking everything out on my partner as he was the one there at home and the only one to take it out on!! I ended up e mailing him one day with a link to the netmums site and I just wrote down exactly how i felt when i was having a bad day and exactly what I needed him to do to help me... mainly giving me a love and helping out round the house more!!

I know you feel like you are doing everything wrong and the moment but I think that is part of the condition...
Remember you have got a condition and it will take time for you to get better.
Do you feel like you could go see your GP? It could really help.

They also say exercise and eating well help!! though I could never do the eating well thing as everytime I was having a bad day I just wanted to eat!

I had my son at 41, being that age my hormones were all over and for six months I felt like a zombie. My dr put me on medication and I was better. i could cope.

:( i dont know about going to the GP i dont want to be put on medication it'll cause more problems with home, my partner is trying to find work and if i am on Pills for being depressed he's not going to want to go and then the benefits are going to mess us about and we've just settled into our new home and honestly when im not feeling down EVERYTHING is perfect and i feel so happy, we have a dog and shes gorgeous my child is stunning and absolutely perfect my partner is everythin i've ever wanted and im happy but it seriously takes the smallest thing like not being able to buy a pack of bacon cause we've fallen short and im upset again...

I dont want to mess things up and i feel like i am doing by feeling this way

I've pm'd you

Fallenangel I know what you mean about being left to your own devices with H.V. I have a 20 month old daughter and still feel the exact same way as you. I fear that if I go to the doctor's they won't be able to help. I cannot talk to anyone as no-one seems to care, you say something to members of my family and all they say is ''I know, well with me I was'' etc and it's like sorry not being selfish but this is about me. I am here if you want to chat xx

Hi fallen,

I'm so sorry you are having a tough time. PND is horrific to go through but please know you are not alone!

I would def recommend speaking to your HV or GP, they don't always give you pills. Even if you did need medication, it's not the same as it was in the 60's, you wont be "off your face" you'll still be able to deal with your daughter.

Do you get out and about with your little one? I would recommend going to Jellytots in the city centre. It's on Mon, Wed, Fri 1-3pm run by fellow forumers and i honestly feel if I hadn't have found the support and friendship from the women there when I had dd2 then my pnd would have been so much worse.

I've merged this thread with another PND thread we have on here as I feel there is a magnitude of good advice on there.

I have suffered with depression since i was 18 and have been on 2 types of teablets since then had 3 councellors which didnt work for me but i know it does for others. my daughter is 16months old on 6th april my HV came last week to do laceys 6-12months check up. my doctor diagnosed PND after i got worse after having Lacey and im the same as you fallen i wouldnt hurt a hair on her head shes perfect wouldnt want her any differently but i have no partner my family think i should just shake myself and ill be better my mums understanding but doesnt realise how bad i get. my nan talks about my house to my mother about it not been in tip top shape and been untidy at some points and she doesnt understand depression and thinks i can pull myself out of it, its hard and I have fibromyalgia too which ive also just been left to deal with, no medication for it tho. I know completely how you feel fallen its awful and i have no friends around me with children either i dont know if you do?
i would advise you to go and speak to your doctor don't be put off about your benefits etc you should really seek help as without help its likely to get worse and your daughter wants a happy mummy and you deserve to be happy in everything.x

Me and my partner had a talk earlier, hes going to try and do his best to take as much strain off me as possible. I'm taking my daughter to her nans next week where my mum and my sister in law have said im going to get my hair done and have a laugh with them, then my sister in law is going to look after my daughter while my partner takes me out...:( i feel bad leaving her but the idea of a break after months of not having one sounds like a dream. i confided in my sister in law and she felt guilty that she had not noticed it before and she was angry that my family are causing me problems but shes wanting to help.

i'm going to see how i go over the next couple of days, see if things get easier and then if i feel no better by the end of the week i will go to the doctors.

Thank you for all your advice, i wasnt too sure about talking about it but seeing how many other people suffer from it i know that if i am diagnosedwith it im not alone.

Hi All
Light is a PND support group we run a group at the Childrens centre at high green on friday mornings,we also offer home visits and phone, text , email support,

We have all had PND so know what its like, you can contact us via www.sheffieldlight.co.uk

My son is now 9 months old, I breast fed him for 4 1/2 weeks I had to stopped feeding him due him not feeding losing ALOT of weight and if I didnt force him to feed and switch to bottle there and then he would have been taken to hospital and be put on drips and stuff to get him better.
I tried everything to stop him going onto formula because I dont know why but I honestly wanted to feed him all breast milk, I tried everything to express but I just got exhausted my self and had to stop.

A week after he was put onto formula and no breast milk I turned for the worst. it was like this for about a month then my family forced me to go to the doctors (they booked an appoinment and came with me to make sure I went) I didnt speak to the doctor only they did. I was put on 10mg citolopram, months later I was put on 20mg and now Im on 30mg, only recently have I gotten a bit better. Even tho I was on the medication for long enough for it to work and be in my system I was still sometimes cm's away from hurting my self and not wanting to be here anymore, I wanted to be on my own. Ive cut my self, stood next to busy roads temping to jump in front of a car, Ive taken overdose (just over double the amount you should take in whole day) I was hospitalised for a whole day, luckly by the time they thought I need to have everything drained out of me the meds in me went down and I was allowed home.
Only when I have calmed down I listen to my fiance and I dont believe what he tells me what I have done (I dont remember anything apart from shapes).
My fiance had to look after our son for a whole month really by him self because I didnt want anything to do with anyone especially my son and my fiance.

I dont know the difference between the two depressions but I was tested with a quiz thing and from my recent happenings before I went down hill everything turned out to be that I have post natal depression along with a small anger issue. 7 n abit months in Im coping a little better. I no longer want to hurt or kill my self I am doing more around the house and I am doing a hell of a lot more with my son, :) Im slowly on the mend.


For everyone who is suffering depression or things they might be please go and get help, I REALLY fear of where I would be right now If I werent put on these meds and not had my counceling, many times at night I cry because I think of what I could have become with out help, I fear that I killed my self and left my son and fiance behind, (Im scared that one day if I dont fully get my act together I will lose everything I hold dear to my heart. (hopefully im making sense)

PLEASE GET HELP.

Sorry for my long post, I dont know why I wrote so much but I felt like I needed to share this.

Thank you for reading