I am trying to understand how one of the jurors thought that Luke's murderer was "not guilty" even based on the limited evidence I've seen.
The question now is:
What minimum sentence should the judge set?
Should the murderer be identified or remain anonymous?

The murderer Alan Pennell 16,murdered Luke Walmsley last November 2003 & on the same day was seen with a knife,but no staff reported this serious matter to the police,BBC New's,if this kid 15 at the time had the knife taken off him Luke would still be alive today.This murdering bully had previously assaulted a police officer & assaulted numerous other people & bullied his way around the school.It is typical of School's today with there head's up there arse's, not believing that bullying goes on in school's.The aftermath of the murder of Luke is shall we have airport style security in our school's my answer yes.Our primary school's have security code lock's,so why not metal detector's.They have had them in the USA for years.If this is the only way to keep our children safe & be protected against murderer's like Pennell then so be it.It is a sad case for this to happen in our country but it has been coming for a long time.School teacher's getting knifed & now our pupils murdered.All I can say is god bless the kid & his family.

I thought there was a ban on reporting this kid's name - the guilty one

Mind you, the internet has always been renowned for letting people find out stuff that the press cannot report itself

They should throw the book at the murderer IMO.

Murder is murder, regardless of whether he's underage or what, legally the lad's underage to cop for the lot but mentally, at least in theory, he's an adult, and therefore should be tried as one.

Originally posted by tosh13
it is typical of School's today with there head's up there arse's, not believing that bullying goes on in school's

That might be true for the schools you know but it's not necessarily the norm.

There have been minor incidents at my school in the past and pupils have been suspended and excluded within an hour. The LEA back up all our decisions but all it does is moves the problem to another school.

I think that in reality we should put the blame fairly and squarely were it belongs with the PC 'No discipline' culture. A culture where children are brought up to believe that their own personal feelings may transcend the 'law of the land' - PC 'Yob culture'.

Any 17 year old boy, or 16, or however old he is, knows full well that carrying a knife is illegal, that stabbing someone is illegal, that taking weapons to school is illegal.......etc

And that it is "a bad thing"

And that he will get into serious trouble

He obviously didnt care or had his head messed up so much he lost sight of reality, probably the latter I guess.

I dont quite see how it would have helped if he had been regularly thrashed for indiscipline (not at all sure I have spelt that right), that would only have taught him that thrashing is what you do to people you dont like or agree with.....wouldnt it?

Here you go:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3929481.stm

From someone who is in a position to make a 'hands on' judgement.

My Neice had been bullied by 3 girls for months & what did the school do suspend them NO they moved my neice to another class,that is a great way in dealing with bullies,the innocent get pushed around by bullies & then they get pushed aside by the school,Bullying has been a problem since school's first began,but over the years no one deals with it & as far as school's dealing with the problem tell that to the parents of the kid who was murdered & the teacher's family & the kid's who have commited suicide because they were too frightened to go to school,I was bullied as a child & the school did nothing & so 33 years on & the same problem being ignored,when are the schools & the education authorities going to stop saying bullying is not a big problem in there school's when clearly it is,I say to all school heads & teachers do a survey in your school & find out how many kid's are being bullied that's if they are not too scared to get involved, and be prepared for a shock!

Originally posted by tosh13
...it is typical of School's today with there head's up there arse's, not believing that bullying goes on in school's,the aftremath of the murder of Luke,is shall we have airport style security in our school's my answer yes,our primary school's have security code lock's,so why not metal detector's,they have had them in the USA for years,if this is the only way to keep our children safe & will be protected against murderer's like Pennell then so be it.it is a sad case for this to happen in our country but it has been coming for a long time.School teacher's getting knifed & now our pupils murdered....

tosh, not every word ending with the letter "s" needs an apostrophe, you know :)

Originally posted by mojoworking
tosh, not every word ending with the letter "s" needs an apostrophe, you know :) Who gives a ****'stick to the thread,we are talking about murder & bullying in schools

removed by spook

Originally posted by spook
nor do you need one before the letter s either! :P That was me being sarcastic '

Originally posted by tosh13
Who gives a ****'stick to the thread,we are talking about murder & bullying in schools

But it would be much easier to read your contribution to the thread without a surfeit of unnecessary apostrophes

Originally posted by mojoworking
But it would be much easier to read your contribution to the thread without a surfeit of unnecessary apostrophes what are you on about who gives a toss about commas etc we are talking about a bullying murderer if you do not wish to add to this thread go and havea go at someone else.

I think that if my surname was "Walmsley" then I wouldn't call my son "Luke".

Originally posted by garrence
I think that if my surname was "Walmsley" then I wouldn't call my son "Luke". Yeah good point mate did not click at first but thats with living in Barnsley for 25 yrs.

Originally posted by garrence
I think that if my surname was "Walmsley" then I wouldn't call my son "Luke".

That's a little bad taste don't you think? :rolleyes:

Even though Tosh's grammar isn't too hot it's not why this topic was started is it. Get back on the topic eh? ;)

Originally posted by tosh13
what are you on about who gives a toss about commas etc we are talking about a bullying murderer if you do not wish to add to this thread go and havea go at someone else.

Tosh, you may be happy to wallow in a morass of semi-literate bliss, but other people do "give a toss", especially when a post is particularly difficult to read. That's what I'm "on about".

I was simply pointing out (in a friendly way, I thought) that not every word ending with the letter "s" needs an apostrophe (that's an entirely different thing to a comma, by the way).

Mystifyingly, your first couple of posts on this thread contained dozens of unnecessary apostrophes (go back and count 'em) which made them confusing and hard to read. If you'd used none at all, it would have been no problem.

I usually don't care about spelling, typos, bad punctuation etc (it's a lost cause, let's face it) but when something is confusing to read I generally give up and move on.

Originally posted by The Boy Wond
Mojo always manages to get his two pennath in when it comes to a grammar argument.

You make me laff, yue Speeling Bee anorak.

I suggest you hire "Spellbound" from the Video shop, its a documentary about the annuall speeling competititition for skool kids in the USA.

Maybe you can find some more speeling geek friends through
watching it.

Interesting to see that your recent ban from the forum has not done much to improve your manners (or your spelling - or should that be "speeling") :)

Can we now expect another tirade of abuse and obscenities similar to your tantrum of a few weeks ago?

Jeez, can someone close this topic please cos it's not going get back to it's original subject while Mojo is stamping his feet and throwing toys all over the place about the spelling mistakes in here.

Why don't you start a spelling mistakes thread Mojo (or just PM the people who make the mistakes) if you feel so strongly about it. It's better than hijacking someone else's thread just to try and make yourself look superior. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Pauly
Jeez, can someone close this topic please cos it's not going get back to it's original subject while Mojo is stamping his feet and throwing toys all over the place about the spelling mistakes in here.

Why don't you start a spelling mistakes thread Mojo (or just PM the people who make the mistakes) if you feel so strongly about it. It's better than hijacking someone else's thread just to try and make yourself look superior. :rolleyes:

If you read my original post on this thread, it was simply a polite request for fewer unnecessary apostrophes. Not unreasonable I thought, as to me anyway, the message was confusing to read.

I assure you it had absolutely nothing to do with spelling and was not an attempt to hijack the thread, look superior or put anyone down.

Originally posted by Pauly
Jeez, can someone close this topic please cos it's not going get back to it's original subject while Mojo is stamping his feet and throwing toys all over the place about the spelling mistakes in here.

Why don't you start a spelling mistakes thread Mojo (or just PM the people who make the mistakes) if you feel so strongly about it. It's better than hijacking someone else's thread just to try and make yourself look superior. :rolleyes: Thanks for the support mate,I did not realise I was back at school,the thread is about the murder of Luke Walmsley & Bullying

Originally posted by mojoworking
Tosh, you may be happy to wallow in a morass of semi-literate bliss, but other people do "give a toss", especially when a post is particularly difficult to read. That's what I'm "on about".

I was simply pointing out (in a friendly way, I thought) that not every word ending with the letter "s" needs an apostrophe (that's an entirely different thing to a comma, by the way).

Mystifyingly, your first couple of posts on this thread contained dozens of unnecessary apostrophes (go back and count 'em) which made them confusing and hard to read. If you'd used none at all, it would have been no problem.

I usually don't care about spelling, typos, bad punctuation etc (it's a lost cause, let's face it) but when something is confusing to read I generally give up and move on. Has anyone misunderstood my comments if so I apologies,but the thread is as said Luke Walmsley the young man who was Murdered by a Bully.Is that plain enough.

Originally posted by Pauly
That's a little bad taste don't you think? :rolleyes:

Even though Tosh's grammar isn't too hot it's not why this topic was started is it. Get back on the topic eh? ;) My grammer not too hot.Let's get back to the subject in hand "Luke Walmsley's"Murder.Thankyou!

Originally posted by tosh13
The murderer Alan Pennell 16,murdered Luke Walmsley last November 2003 & on the same day was seen with a knife,but no staff reported this serious matter to the police,BBC New's,if this kid 15 at the time had the knife taken off him Luke would still be alive today.This murdering bully had previously assaulted a police officer & assaulted numerous other people & bullied his way around the school.It is typical of School's today with there head's up there arse's, not believing that bullying goes on in school's.The aftermath of the murder of Luke is shall we have airport style security in our school's my answer yes.Our primary school's have security code lock's,so why not metal detector's.They have had them in the USA for years.If this is the only way to keep our children safe & be protected against murderer's like Pennell then so be it.It is a sad case for this to happen in our country but it has been coming for a long time.School teacher's getting knifed & now our pupils murdered.All I can say is god bless the kid & his family. Can you all understand my post now.Thankyou

Originally posted by tosh13
[...] why not metal detector's.They have had them in the USA for years.
Thats hardly the best advertisement is it?

Chris.

It'd just be one more thing to add the growing list of Americanisms wouldn't it. Although this country is becoming just as violent with all the stabbings and shootings we're hearing about these days. Pretty sad really. :(

Oh and yes we understand your post now Tosh, after you quad-posted your point. :rolleyes:

Cheers Pauly. Yes I have said for years our country is getting like the USA. But when you look at the anti smack brigade going on about you should not smack your children & so on it get's on my nerves.As a Dad & Grandad I have over the years tried not to smack my kid's as the look was enough.But sometime's there is a need for a gentle tap on the hand,I do not believe in smacking children on the head or leg's for obvious reasons.I take my grandson down to school & bring him back & some of the parents screaming smacking & swearing at there kids gets to me. You say something & you get abuse back.Although I am disabled my Mum would smack me on the hand when I behaved badly,but most of the time my Mum & Dad gave me the look & that was enough.I think if todays young parent's got more involved with the activities of there children no doubt they would be better behaved,but most of the time they cannot be bothered.I had no fields to play on.Me & my mate's from Heeley had to play in the street or go to Graves park or Meersbrook park or Millhouses.But in the winter who wanted to go to the park.Most kids today have more activities to do than there were in my day.But I do not think society will ever change.Because most parents don't care enough about the child's welfare.But we all live in hope.

Originally posted by Chris_Sleeps
Thats hardly the best advertisement is it?

Chris. Can you explain your comment?????

Schools in London to have metal detectors.Schools throughout the UK will follow.If the metal detectors had been in use throughout UK maybe Luke would still be alive today.But typical of our country years behind every other country.But better late than never.