Following the earlier discussion about the proposed building of a Starbucks in the former tourism office, are any forum members interested in mounting a campaign to urge Starbucks to think again.

Ideally asking them to consider relocating to an area of the city where they would be competing with another large chain such as Costa, not small independent café's such as Zoobies.

I’d appreciate peoples ideas and comments.

Cheers

I'll support anything anti-Starbucks.

However, don't you think this kind of campaign would ultimately be futile? Essentially, we would be asking a business to make less money than it could otherwise.

The whole reason Starbucks wants to infiltrate every corner of the world is because there is sufficient demand. We ask them to come. We buy their coffee.

We can't ask a business not to be a business. All we can do is not buy their product.

If Zoobies is any good and wanted by their customers in sufficient numbers, they'll survive.

Starbucks gives predictable quality and a 'brand' - it's up to the people as to whether they use that brand or not.

Let the market decide.

Joe

I suspect that it will be too late. If it has been announced it's 99.9% likely that the lease has been signed with the building owner.

Well we can always mount a campaign not to drink there and point out the cost differential between the two places. I'd imagine starbucks will be about 2-3x the price.

That would be interesting. If my information is correct, the Landlord of the building is the owner of Mama's around the corner!

Not to mention the difference in quality between the two - if you're really interested about coffee chains vs small independents then check out the food program - yesterday Radio 4.

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
Following the earlier discussion about the proposed building of a Starbucks in the former tourism office, are any forum members interested in mounting a campaign to urge Starbucks to think again.

Ideally asking them to consider relocating to an area of the city where they would be competing with another large chain such as Costa, not small independent café's such as Zoobies.

I’d appreciate peoples ideas and comments.

Cheers

Why bother? Surely theres other things to put your time and effort into?

I, for one, think its long overdue and we know when it opens it will be packed.

I think Zoobies will be alright as remember there is another cafe in the Galleries already. I don't remember this much fuss about that or it is just because its Starbucks??

As much as i have an intense, and probably irrational, dislike for Starbucks, i don't think there is anything that a few people from Sheffield can do to make any difference to a chain that has already taken over a large portion of the world.

Most people will welcome them with open arms, and it's not surprising as Sheffield usually seems the last to get such chains. I doubt it will be long before one opens on Ecclesall Road, and soon they will be all over like MacDonalds.

Good luck to anyone who makes a stand, i will be doing what i have always done, and avoided Starbucks, as well as any other coffee house trying to sell me a product that has a higher mark-up than any other drug, legal or otherwise.

Coffee!! sod that I just want a place that duz a nice cuppa

that starbucks are allowed to call there product coffee is an abomination in my book - bloomin vaguely falvoured water is what it is. where are there ristretto's? there, mmm whats that really strong iced one called....?

not to mention the fact that they are viciously anti-union (at least they are in the US I imagine they are here too). and ther emarketting techniques are quite revolting - the idea that that disinterested, abstract entity 'the market' wuill allow us to decide what's the best coffee shop is tosh, unfortunately. starbucks buy up prooperties - often near other coffee shops, in order to dominate the market place. they can keep proices down, to a certain extent, becuase of economies of scale that smaller retailers can't get, and because they are a mega-corp they can also subsidise new establishments for as long as it takes to drive competitors out of business.

Like Dagobah said just don't go there when it opens.

I know I won't be.

Unfortunately bland is taking over the world- wheres the fun in going to a different city / country and eating and drinking THE SAME THING as you can get up then road from you. That to me is the problem with Maccy Ds, Starbucks etc. Bland bland bland.

The great thing about living in a representative democracy is that the actions of a few can make a huge difference, even against giants like $tarbuck$. We are all represented by local councillors, and if you have taken the time and energy to post a short comment upon this forum against the giant of globalisation, why not go that tiny bit extra????


Just follow this link, click on your ward, click on your councillor and ask them to do their job, represent your views.

http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/your-city-council/councillors

Last night I emailed every single councillor and the response has been fantastic. Hard as it may seem some people are concerned that a global giant is threatening the livelihood of scores of Sheffield businesses.

We paid for the Winter Gardens through taxes, now it seems a major beneficiary will be a private hotel, and now it seems like the people profiting from extra custom from this hotel will not be the people of Sheffield but the shareholders of a multinational giant.

I think this stinks and if you do too please lodge a complaint with your councillor and the planning board.

You have until Monday.

Unfortunatly, i think stopping companies like Starbucks from coming to Sheffield will have an even worse effect on trade in the city than if we allow it. Rather than try and stop them, just get everyone you know to take their trade to the independents and even things up.

Starbucks aren't a company that promotes trade in a city centre, they feed off it.

No one goes into to town to go to a Starbucks, they go to a Starbucks when in Town doing other things.

Yes, but a company like Starbucks promote interest in retail space within a city centre, people look to the international companies when looking where to invest. I

f the city centre didn't have a Gap and MacDonalds and a Subway, Burger King... etc... then it is harder to get other retailers interested and you would end up with all independent shops that, unfortunatly, most people don't want to shop at... people would just go to Meadowhall, more than already do.

I am in no way in favour of Starbucks, as i'm sure is obvious from my other posts, but i'm a realist.

I agree to a degree but theree is a distinction between big retail outlets such as Gap which attract custom and those that feed off it.

I would welcome a starbucks if it was in a position where it was competing with say Costa Coffe or Coffe revolution. Their are several great locations on Far Gate for example.

But this location means the only competition is so small it is predicted to last a few months once Starbukcs opens.

Did anyone see the episode of The Simpsons where Bart gets his ear pierced? The shopping mall he goes to ends up being entirely Starbucks shops!

Be thankful, there are five in Manchester city centre, all within five minutes walking distance of each other.

maybe it's having that image stuck in my head that's making me so angry about all this.

By mentioning the abstract entity of 'The market' I really meant to suggest that other places would stay alive if they were able to give their customers more than Starbucks can.

Whether Starbucks coffee is good, bad or indifferent I wouldn't really know. I was 18 before I drank instant coffee and to be frank the best coffee I had was in Florence years ago. Over here I'm used to 'coffee flavoured warm drinks' and if Starbucks provides one that people are happier with than somewhere else, then unfortunately Starbucks will win out.

Whether we like it or not, consistency of experience IS a major thing for many people - Macdonalds built an empire on consistent crap.

Joe

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
Last night I emailed every single councillor and the response has been fantastic. Hard as it may seem some people are concerned that a global giant is threatening the livelihood of scores of Sheffield businesses.

We paid for the Winter Gardens through taxes

I think this stinks and if you do too please lodge a complaint with your councillor and the planning board.

You have until Monday.

It's nice to see councillors are involved and taking an interest. I am not for or against Starbucks, it's just one of these things that happen. There was a protest against GAP when they moved to Sheffield but to no avail.

We didn't pay for the gardens through taxes, it was lottery and privately funded.

Someone mentioned that the prices in Starbucks will be more than Zooby's, have you seen their prices lately? they are not the cheapest place so that would go in sb's favour.

Someone I know has set up a web site against them with the intention to protest if anyone is interested.



Edit: Link not working, will try to get it later.

is it the freepgs address?


had a little confusion over the address if so,

i'll post on here when it's sorted out.

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
is it the freepgs address?


had a little confusion over the address if so,

i'll post on here when it's sorted out.

It was something like scabbyhatesstarbucks.co.uk but I must have mistyped it. I will try some variations on the spelling.

Just put starbucks into a search engine, it comes up with quite a few anti starbuck sites.

I wouldn't worry too much about Zoobies, from what I've seen you can put their customers in one of two categories - those who go because of the location in the Winter gardens, and those that go because of the fair trade policy.

I believe in cases like this, the best way is to vote with your feet and spend your money at the independent coffee shops and cafes rather than costabucks!

These are the people Zoobies relies upon for the bulk of it's custom but the projected losses caused to passing trade by Starbucks will be enough to put the cafe out of business.

For those of you interested in helping promote local trade and fair-trade please visit this website and put your e-mail to the mailing list. It deals specifically with this issue.

Cheers

http://www.freepgs.com/fairtrade

But if the people really didn't want to go to Starbucks, they wouldn't. Isn't it part of living in a free country that we have to let there be competing chains... if the people don't want Starbucks they will close. It is not fair for a few people to stop the public getting what they want... as much as i dislike Starbucks.

Depends what your opinion of fair is.

Is it fair that a person can set up a small business noly to see that business destroyed by a large multinational they have no hope of competing with.

It's perfectly resonable for markets to be regulated by local governments, otherwise we would be ruled my monopolies.

It's about striking a fair balance.

Starbucks has enough money that it could give away free food and coffee untill every cafe in sheffield went bust, would this be fair?

It is common practice for chains such as Starbucks to drop their prices to levels they know their small competetors can't afford to match, yet they know they have the finance to make a loss but be able to re coup it once the other cafe has gone bust, which it inevitably will.

Yet you only have to look at the success of books like NO logo to see that people are not happy with this kind of business practice. Peoples attitudes are changing, hopefully quicj enough to save Zoobies.


http://www.freepgs.com/fairtrade

I do think it's fair, to be honest, because nobody makes you go into a store... the public gets what the public wants... if you want a good cup of coffee, don't go to Starbucks... if you want to buy into a lifestyle and get a cheap cup of ok coffee... thats your place.

but the point is if Starbucks are given a free run to do whatever they want, they have the finances to close all off cafe's, ending peoples choice.

But the issue isn't about stopping Starbucks, it's about it's location being reconsidered so as to not destroy local bussiness


http://www.freepgs.com/fairtrade

Let them open wherever they like.

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
but the point is if Starbucks are given a free run to do whatever they want, they have the finances to close all off cafe's, ending peoples choice.

But the issue isn't about stopping Starbucks, it's about it's location being reconsidered so as to not destroy local bussiness


http://www.freepgs.com/fairtrade

But what you seem to forget is that there is a reason they have the finances... they were once a small independent coffee shop in seattle... if you offer cheap and dependable service, you will survive. If people don't want what you sell, they won't buy it.

I agree with you in principle, just not in the reality of the situation... in an ideal world the customers would demand better, but they won't, sorry. :(

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
These are the people Zoobies relies upon for the bulk of it's custom but the projected losses caused to passing trade by Starbucks will be enough to put the cafe out of business.

For those of you interested in helping promote local trade and fair-trade please visit this website and put your e-mail to the mailing list. It deals specifically with this issue.

Cheers

http://www.freepgs.com/fairtrade

The site I was on about is the freepgs one, sorry about that I got confused with something else.

where is this new starbucks gonna be? i like starbucks am i the only one? :(

Originally posted by Bluelunar
where is this new starbucks gonna be? i like starbucks am i the only one? :(

In the old Tourist information office I think.

No, you are not the only one who likes Starbucks, lots of people do.

The thing I don't understand with all this anti-Starbucks feeling is that there was already a perfectly good cafe in the Millennium Galleries and no one batted an eyelid when the cafe in the Winter gardens opened. Double standards me thinks!

Have to say I agree with Snook on a lot of things he has said on this subject.

Originally posted by t020
Let them open wherever they like.

Just like the proposed wind farm in Hathersage?

Originally posted by Chalky
In the old Tourist information office I think.

No, you are not the only one who likes Starbucks, lots of people do.

The thing I don't understand with all this anti-Starbucks feeling is that there was already a perfectly good cafe in the Millennium Galleries and no one batted an eyelid when the cafe in the Winter gardens opened. Double standards me thinks!

Have to say I agree with Snook on a lot of things he has said on this subject.

Zoobies and Cafe Azure don't really compete much. Cafe Azure is licensed (I believe) and has a kitchen and what, 50 covers? Zoobies is a fairtrade sandwich deli with one small table and three stools.

I just don't like starbucks for the homegenised three ring binder cathedral of mediocrity that it is. I'm sure the original starbucks was lovely, but why do they have to export it in a bid for worldwide domination? Greed. Pure and simple.

We moan (in another thread) about the council not letting Ikea open.

We moan here about Starbucks being allowed to open.

I feel the council are stuck between a rock and a hard place. I'd rather see a Starbucks than an empty building.

It's dead simple if you dont like it dont drink there!
we've got Starbucks city mugs from around the world
and use these all the time at home!
When we get a Starbucks in Sheffield and it loses it's cache we'll probably grow tired of it and look for the next thing to patronise.

Will one more Starbucks actually affect things? I've always wondered why Sheffield Centre dosen't have one. All the other major cities tend to.
We only have one little kiosk thingy in the mall.

Sure I feel sorry for the staff of the small coffee shops, but I expect that they are prepared for this type of thing. Afterall the cafe market seems pretty saturated to me.

One thing good about Starbucks - they do a Rocky Road to die for! ;)

sorry where is the old tourist information centre?

In the new Starbucks ;)

Corner of Tudor Sq. I always thought that was a really stupid name for that place anyway.

is that near the library?? yay! its right next to my uni!! :D

Starbucks are succesful because people like to go in there.

Criminals.

:roll:

Originally posted by HxTim
Starbucks are succesful because people like to go in there.

Criminals.

:roll:


No people dont like to go there. They have been bombarded with the Starbucks logo, leaflets, tv ads, radio ads, and so it beocmes familliar to them - hence when they see a starbucks they go in. We should be supporting local cafe owners, or there will come a time when we will never have a choice, as Starbucks will monopolise the whole market.

They have a policy of buying as many premises in one area - operating at a loss to force family businesses to close. Lovely.

And also the coffee is rubbish.

people are cretins... they will go there whatever you do...giving a ned a leaflet advising price difference...Starbucks is cool...(my yygod look at McD's to see this) lots of bling bling....they don't care....

people do what the media tells them to do.....

How about Glocalisation. Harnesess the wealth creating capacity of globalisation, but retains the local individuality of localisation.

It is an actual concept that's being used in many small Italian settlements. The local authorities decide whether applicant organisations are allowed to trade / locate in their area.

Originally posted by fifi
No people dont like to go there. They have been bombarded with the Starbucks logo, leaflets, tv ads, radio ads, blah, blah, blah

So you're telling me that the last time I went to a Starbucks I didn't enjoy it? I didn't have a nice cup of coffee, with some decent biscuits whilst sitting in a clean, comfortable environment? Well, thanks for clearing that up. Do you want to tell me what else I'm doing wrong in my life while you're at it?

I'm definitely going to Starbucks now so I'm not associated with the likes of you!!!

This kind of thing is holding our city back... No wonder none of the major stores (Selfridges, H.Nics, etc) have signed up to the new retail quarter, they'd probably only get protested against by a bunch of smelly, timewasting, krusty middle-class students who think they're going to change the world.

</rant>

Originally posted by daver
This kind of thing is holding our city back... No wonder none of the major stores (Selfridges, H.Nics, etc) have signed up to the new retail quarter...

Oh right, you mean this type of protest works then :)

I thought the reason those stores didn't want to come down here was either because of the high rates imposed by Sheffield City Council, or because Thatcher threw everyone onto the dole (and if you is on the dole, you isn't shopping at Harvey Nicks)

Originally posted by fifi
No people dont like to go there. They have been bombarded with the Starbucks logo, leaflets, tv ads, radio ads, and so it beocmes familliar to them - hence when they see a starbucks they go in. We should be supporting local cafe owners, or there will come a time when we will never have a choice, as Starbucks will monopolise the whole market.

They have a policy of buying as many premises in one area - operating at a loss to force family businesses to close. Lovely.

And also the coffee is rubbish.

I can't ever recall seeing Starbucks advertised on TV or the radio, ever picking up a Starbucks leaflet or for that matter ever seeing any kind of advertising...can anyone else remember some adverts?
They are usually popular as a result of word of mouth and it's up to the small coffee shops to react to the competition or go under. Thats just the nature of retail business. As its been said elsewhere I'd rather see a Starbucks than an empty building and the choice is simple...don't go in if you don't..if its not popular then naturally it will close down...if it is popular then you will be proved wrong.

What's wrong with competition anyway. It is up to companies to decide where to locate and up to customers to decide whether or not to buy from them.

Originally posted by wibbles
I can't ever recall seeing Starbucks advertised on TV or the radio, ever picking up a Starbucks leaflet or for that matter ever seeing any kind of advertising...can anyone else remember some adverts?
They are usually popular as a result of word of mouth and it's up to the small coffee shops to react to the competition or go under. Thats just the nature of retail business. As its been said elsewhere I'd rather see a Starbucks than an empty building and the choice is simple...don't go in if you don't..if its not popular then naturally it will close down...if it is popular then you will be proved wrong.

I have never seen an advert for Starbucks, or a leaflet. I don't ever recall seeing an advert on TV for them when i lived in America either, unlike Subway and MacDonalds who have one every five minutes. It's quite amazing that they don't need to advertise more.

haha how ridiculous.

I go in independent coffee shops as well as Starbucks, thank you very much.

I don't go in Starbucks because it's "cool" - I go in there because it's where I happen to be at the time that I want a coffee.

Please don't try to apply your tin foil hat logic to me.

Im finding that the 'anti-corporation' is becoming a cliche.

Isn't it obvious that all your 'Go Independant!' speeches are just as equal a fashion nowadays.
You talk about free speech
If you truly believe this then what happened to respecting peoples right to choose?
By ruling out certain places based on advertising principles or corporation size you are becoming the kind of people you are apparantly trying to be superior to.

Every town thrives on competition and people are more intelligent than you think. I choose places on the quality of their goods and value for money and I think similarly many people shop around and choose what they like.

Take a look at your comments and find out the meaning of hypocrasy before you claim 'free speech' ideas.

Originally posted by dylan_61
How about Glocalisation. Harnesess the wealth creating capacity of globalisation, but retains the local individuality of localisation.

It is an actual concept that's being used in many small Italian settlements. The local authorities decide whether applicant organisations are allowed to trade / locate in their area.

Well, I looked it up and its a very well developed practice - good stuff.

Better than this Big=Bad/Anti=Mad duality that gets us nowhere.

Originally posted by daver
So you're telling me that the last time I went to a Starbucks I didn't enjoy it? I didn't have a nice cup of coffee, with some decent biscuits whilst sitting in a clean, comfortable environment? Well, thanks for clearing that up. Do you want to tell me what else I'm doing wrong in my life while you're at it?

I'm definitely going to Starbucks now so I'm not associated with the likes of you!!!

This kind of thing is holding our city back... No wonder none of the major stores (Selfridges, H.Nics, etc) have signed up to the new retail quarter, they'd probably only get protested against by a bunch of smelly, timewasting, krusty middle-class students who think they're going to change the world.

</rant>

Im not attacking anyone personally - anyone can do whatever they want - as most people do nowadays without thoughts about their actions.

My whole argument with Starbucks comes from this : When
I was living in London a Starbucks appeared in my area, fair enough, something new. However they then bought the a premises next door but one to the original one. And so it continued for them to buy all the up for let premises. So there were 8 starbucks within a 1/2 sq mile. The reason they do this (operate at a loss) is to force independent shop owners out of business - which is what happened - a fantastic Italien family, who did make "proper" coffee became another jobless statistic.
They then closed 5 or 6 of them because they had successfully driven out the competition.

I could go on, as this is just the begginning of my argument about why we should should embrace local producers, cafe owners etc, but you, like alot of people do not see the consequences of big profit making corporations - which is why there is so much wrong with the world.

I would also never assume what your class is, or status is - as it is rude. And for your information, I am not your sterotype, I just care about the bigger issue, and yes how to make the world a fairer and better place.

Originally posted by fifi
Im not attacking anyone personally - anyone can do whatever they want - as most people do nowadays without thoughts about their actions.

My whole argument with Starbucks comes from this : When
I was living in London a Starbucks appeared in my area, fair enough, something new. However they then bought the a premises next door but one to the original one. And so it continued for them to buy all the up for let premises. So there were 8 starbucks within a 1/2 sq mile. The reason they do this (operate at a loss) is to force independent shop owners out of business - which is what happened - a fantastic Italien family, who did make "proper" coffee became another jobless statistic.
They then closed 5 or 6 of them because they had successfully driven out the competition.

I could go on, as this is just the begginning of my argument about why we should should embrace local producers, cafe owners etc, but you, like alot of people do not see the consequences of big profit making corporations - which is why there is so much wrong with the world.

I would also never assume what your class is, or status is - as it is rude. And for your information, I am not your sterotype, I just care about the bigger issue, and yes how to make the world a fairer and better place.

Rightly or wrongly thats the nature of retail competition. Any global money making corporation would do all it can to maximise profit. If the Italian coffee shop was so good then customers would've ignored all the Strabucks and continued to visit the more traditional establishment and it would have stayed open..but they didn't. Can't blame Starbucks for wanting to make as much money as possible. Its all well and good complaining but they must be doing something right. At the end of the day whichever local planning council granted Starbucks permission to open 8 shops within 1/2 sq mile is just as much to blame.

Originally posted by wibbles
At the end of the day whichever local planning council granted Starbucks permission to open 8 shops within 1/2 sq mile is just as much to blame.

If the units already had food & drink consent would they have had to apply for planning permission?

Originally posted by Andy C
If the units already had food & drink consent would they have had to apply for planning permission? No, not for a typical fit out.

Actually having given it thought planning permission wouldn't be needed but advertising consent would have. Surely somewhere down the line the local planning authority thought 'hold onlads..this is the 8th application we've had for the same shop'.

Thats not a valid reason for denying a consent - and neither is 'being Stabucks' a valid reason either.

Originally posted by Tony
Thats not a valid reason for denying a consent - and neither is 'being Stabucks' a valid reason either.

You're right it isn't a valid decision. Valid decisions made by planning authorities are not commonplace though to be fair. The point is surely someone has the power to prevent this sort of local monopolisation...we'd never see 8 Mcd's or 8 anything for that matter open within that close proximity.
I'm all for fair competition but if the story is true about 8 Starbucks within 1/2 radius then that is a bit too much..this ain't New York

Well I would disagree about the planning decisions, but I would agree that there are too many times when local micro-politics gets involved. Planning officers are usually OK, though some are obviously better than others.

As for the monopolies, well I tend to agree, but maybe we're past the point of no return.