Crime has dropped by 5% according to the British Crime Survey - the longest period of falling crime for 106 years, with a total drop in crime of 39% since 1995. There are also 500,000 fewer victims of violent crime than in 1995.

'Conservatives and Liberal Democrats called on the new figures to be taken as the benchmark for a drop and home office minister Hazel Blears said the BCS was "accepted as the most reliable source of information". '

Yet for all this massive drop in crime, people seem to be more afraid than ever... why is this??

'Surveys have found that readers of red-top and middle market newspapers such as the Daily Mail have the greatest fear of crime and the fears are out of proportion with reality.'

MSN, I their report, do point out that 'recorded' violent crime has risen over the last year by 12%, even though actual violent crime has dropped 3%. This comes from the way in which crime is now recorded, with even the smallest affrays and common assaults having to be recorded by the police when before 1998 they weren't.

I'm sure many people will doubt these figures, and I’m sure they are not without faults, but when all of the political parties are saying that these are the figures that should be trusted, and not using them against each other, there must surely be something in them.

So why do people still feel so scared? Is it because of the media and its 'if it bleeds it leads' attitude, or is it because of first hand evidence?


http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/story.jsp?story=543388

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/homeaffairs/story/0,11026,1266672,00.html

http://newsbox.msn.co.uk/article.aspx?as=article&f=uk_-_olgbtopnews&t=11881&id=64604&d=20040722&do=http://newsbox.msn.co.uk&i=http://newsbox.msn.co.uk/mediaexportlive&ks=0&mc=5&lc=en&ae=windows-1252

*warning potential conspiracy theory ahead*

Fear of crime can actually be very usefull for some parties - after all what easier way is there for a government to introduce new laws that curtail your freedoms than by telling you its for your own good and will keep you safe - see also islamic terrorist hiding round every corner and the 'satanic child abuse' witch hunts...

Gone are the days when children used to play outside then come home at bedtime.

If I let my children do this you can probably up the odds of something happening to them.

If we all let our children play outside then the odds would be the same as they are now.

Just a little example.

The media is to blame.

Children are always playing out round here! Noisy gits!! :D

The coverage of crime in the media goes up every year, and yet actual crime goes down. Of course, we now have the 'threat' of terrorism to contend with.

Originally posted by Snook
Children are always playing out round here! Noisy gits!! :D

The coverage of crime in the media goes up every year, and yet actual crime goes down. Of course, we now have the 'threat' of terrorism to contend with.

Yeah, that's why I want mine to play outside allllllllll ddaaaaaaayyyy. So I can have some peace!! lol

I could end them down the road to yours Snook if that is where the kids are at.

Thanks for the offer, but already too many round here. Funnily enough, none have every been attacked, killed, raped, mugged, shot at, or anything like that.

Originally posted by Snook

Yet for all this massive drop in crime, people seem to be more afraid than ever... why is this??

'Surveys have found that readers of red-top and middle market newspapers such as the Daily Mail have the greatest fear of crime and the fears are out of proportion with reality.'


So why do people still feel so scared? Is it because of the media and its 'if it bleeds it leads' attitude, or is it because of first hand evidence?




Surely the answer's in your quote from the Independent ?

For the tabloid press bad news is good news....sensational crime reporting and 'exclusive interviews' with victims sells newspapers.

It just seems though, that people want to buy into fear. Its as if they can negate responsibility for so much by blaming it on society and the way crime is getting worse... if crime is getting less and less every year, why are people so scared? Shouldn't we be celebrating?

It may be just the fact thats its one AM I can't sleep and feel like crap or I could be just getting all jaded but doesnt the whole fear mongoring approach to politics seem to be running rampant? Lets take a couple of examples (in alphabetical order before anyone shouts bias!):

ANL -> the BNP are going to sweep to power and turn Britain into the 4th reich, murder all non aryans and then take over the world.

BNP -> evil asylum seekers are coming here to steal all your tax money, houses, jobs and dilute your british ancestry.

New Labour -> Sadam Hussain has biological / chemical / nuclear weapons ready to launch in 45 minutes to destroy us and our Middle East allies (who may or may not have similar weapons of their own but we will ignore that).

Pretty Much Anyone -> the streets have become a cess pool over-run by criminals of all hues who wait behind every bush and lampost to mug / rape / murder / kidnap you.

UKIP -> snail eating frogs and jackbooted krauts are going to steal your sovereignty and make you use dirty foreign money - egad!

Theres an obvious advantage in hyping some nebulous and non existant threat, setting yourself up as the only people who can counter it and then hopefully sweep to power on a wave of populist anti-whatever sympathy. (Of course get it wrong and it all blows up in your face - can anyone say WMD!) However has politics been so mired in sleaze and apathy that this lowest common denominator, tabloidism is the only way to even vaguely pique the interest of an ever more fractured and isolated society? If so its a very depressing world we live in...

p.s. sorry if this wasn't exactly on thread :blush:

So we are all imagining that a youth was stabbed to death on our doorstep the other day when camping, that a girl was stabbed to death outside a nightclub last week, that a manaic killed 4 people in N Yorks a couple of days ago etc etc.

Get real, these are not made up by the press they are actual happenings. It suits the government to talk these things down then they can spoon feed us all this crap that some previous posters have made......we're exagerating it ;)


Round here people often don't report theft as you can be hung on the phone for hours and don't stand a hope in hell of having anything returned or the culprit being caught.

Don't forget the imaginary mugging that was the subject of a whole thread here on this forum recently. That was probably a plant by the Daily Mail.

The only reasons the crime figures appear to be going down is because people know it's not worth reporting many incidents and/or the police simply don't investigate crime as rigorously as they used to.

They seldom come out for car break-ins any more and as for criminal damage, forget it.

Recently someone threw a litter bin through the huge shop window next door to where I work (£1,000 damage). The shop is vacant, so I rang the police and all I got was an insurance claim number. When I asked if they were coming out to take a look, they said, "er, no, we don't investigate criminal damage."

Originally posted by Mo
So we are all imagining that a youth was stabbed to death on our doorstep the other day when camping, that a girl was stabbed to death outside a nightclub last week, that a manaic killed 4 people in N Yorks a couple of days ago etc etc.

Get real, these are not made up by the press they are actual happenings. It suits the government to talk these things down then they can spoon feed us all this crap that some previous posters have made......we're exagerating it ;)


Round here people often don't report theft as you can be hung on the phone for hours and don't stand a hope in hell of having anything returned or the culprit being caught.

i don't think people are saying that it doesn't happen. Of course it does.

The point is though that the media like to hype it up to a large degree and we all become paranoid.

These things have always happened but were never reported about so much before.

I suppose the goverment want it this way so they can justify us all working like dogs, paying taxes to them, stuff gets reported in the media, then the government say they are doing something about it, hence we are happy to pay our taxes for them to sort things out.

Actually, this report (unlike the police's recorded crime figures) includes unreported crime and takes into account that only about half of all crimes are reported. So that argument doesn't work, because even taking that into consideration crime is still down 39% since '95. The risk of being a victim of crime is the lowest since the survey began.

Crimes reported to the police are actually up 12% for the last year. See my signature. Don't be fooled by Labour spin. Actual police statistics are a much more reliable measure of crime than any survey on a relatively small sample.

It isn't Labour spin, they are actually the only party that weren't happy about the figures because it made their recent announcment on crime seem stupid.

It also isn't going to make me vote for Labour in the next election. But the polices recorded figures are not as acurate as this independant survey, and the links explain why, as have i before.

It's not about Labour or any other party, its about the media and companies wanting to make money out of fear. Actual violent crime went down last year, the police explained about their recorded figures going up because of the way they now record crime.

Originally posted by t020
Crimes reported to the police are actually up 12% for the last year. See my signature.

Or look at the facts, it's up to you.

Originally posted by Toby
Or look at the facts, it's up to you.

Am doing - the police FACTS, not the results of a survey questioning 40,000 people out of 57 million about their experiences with crime (a survey that also ignores several violent crimes). I'm looking at the facts - why don't you?

This is the age old problem of dicussion boards. Just because you type something as ridiculous as "60% rise in violent crime since Labour took power in 1997", it doesn't mean it's true.

I got burgled in 1995, and have lived a blisfully crime free existance since. Does this mean the Major administration started the good stuff, and Blair carried on the work?

Originally posted by Toby
This is the age old problem of dicussion boards. Just because you type something as ridiculous as "60% rise in violent crime since Labour took power in 1997", it doesn't mean it's true.

Well actually it does... it's an official figure from the Home Office.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/07/20/ncrim120.xml


Your second point is so irrelevant and pointless that I shan't bother to respond to it.

The same Home Office that have said that the Crime Survey was "accepted as the most reliable source of information"?

Originally posted by Snook
The same Home Office that have said that the Crime Survey was "accepted as the most reliable source of information"?

It would say that because the Crime Survey paints a rosier picture. If the police stats gave the better figures the Home Office would be promoting that as the most reliable source. Spin??

Originally posted by t020
It would say that because the Crime Survey paints a rosier picture. If the police stats gave the better figures the Home Office would be promoting that as the most reliable source. Spin??

Then why do the Lib Dem and Tory parties also agree? Why not use it against them, especially with an election coming up?

I'd like to see your source on that. Personally I can't see how a (relatively) small sample of people answering survey questions about crimes (missing out several violent crimes) can be a more conclusive method of determining crime figures than the amount of actual crimes reported to the police. Each to their own though.

'The Conservatives and Liberal Democrats called on the new figures to be taken as the benchmark for a drop, while Mr Blunkett denied advance knowledge of the 5% drop and home office minister Hazel Blears said the BCS was "accepted as the most reliable source of information". '

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/homeaffairs/story/0,11026,1266672,00.html

There you go, quote and source.

Originally posted by t020
Well actually it does... it's an official figure from the Home Office.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/07/20/ncrim120.xml


Your second point is so irrelevant and pointless that I shan't bother to respond to it.


Oh, OK. What you're saying is that if a report is in The Telegraph, you'll believe it, whereas if it's in The Indy you won't.


Let me give you a piece of genuine, heartfelt advice. Stop worrying about the crime, the muggers, the rising house market, the nasty brown people, the football hooligans, the bogeyman, the MEPs, MRSA, poofs, piercings, student loans, illegal immigrants, immigrants in general, traffic wardens, the Euro, pirate DVDs, the latest pentium, your car, chavs, people who dare enjoy Big Brother, your education, your career, their career, how come they've got a career?

You spend every day living in a great city, in a wonderful country. Enjoy it.

Most importantly, don't take advice from strangers on a website.

It must just be all the crime going on in Ecclesall that is giving you such a poor view on the world. In 20 years of living where i do, i've never been the victim of crime, and heard of very little around here. The kids play out in the streets, and people walk around at night AS IF IT WERE SAFE!!!!! Shock horror!

Maybe i should just get me a gun and put bars on the window, because the telegraph tells me we're all going to hell in a hand-basket! :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Toby

Let me give you a piece of genuine, heartfelt advice. Stop worrying about the crime, the muggers, the rising house market, the nasty brown people, the football hooligans, the bogeyman, the MEPs, MRSA, poofs, piercings, student loans, illegal immigrants, immigrants in general, traffic wardens, the Euro, pirate DVDs, the latest pentium, your car, chavs, people who dare enjoy Big Brother, your education, your career, their career, how come they've got a career?



Agree with you on every point Toby.

Except about the Traffic Wardens. Let's face it, it's a c***s job and only a c*** would do it! :)

I never said I was perfick.

Originally posted by Snook
It must just be all the crime going on in Ecclesall that is giving you such a poor view on the world. In 20 years of living where i do, i've never been the victim of crime, and heard of very little around here. The kids play out in the streets, and people walk around at night AS IF IT WERE SAFE!!!!! Shock horror!

Maybe i should just get me a gun and put bars on the window, because the telegraph tells me we're all going to hell in a hand-basket! :rolleyes:

I've never been a victim of crime, anywhere, ever. I just don't like the way New Labour twist figures to make things look like they're better than they really are. There is no way on earth that violent crime, in particular gun crime, is falling.

I agree, gun crime is up, as is murder. What is failed to be mentioned though, is that these are mostly gang related, and as such are not carried out on the general public as some people would have you believe (I know there is some random crime and acts of violence, there always has been and always will be).

If you are a law abiding citizen you are safer now than you have been in a very long time, and far less likely to be the victime of crime... so everyone can relax. :D