Figures just released show that unemployment has been rising for a year and has just hit the highest level for 7 years.

From the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5340948.stm)

Perhaps Mr Blair's castle is tumbling down and Mr Brown is going to inherit a ramshackle shell?

I hope not for all our sakes.

Boom and bust anyone, it's just taken a bit longer this time !

Is anyone surprised at these figures?.......creative accounting coming home to roost!

Unemployment statistics have been massaged more under this Government than at any time in the past. :rolleyes:

I would go further and suggest even these figures wouldn't stand scrutiny if the more traditional forms of measurement were used.

They say that it takes around 3 years for a new Government to make itself felt on the economy of a nation.

So, let's do the sums... Labour in power for 10 years, unemployment at the highest level in 7 years and rising.

I would also question the "Inflation Rate" figures during recent years too.

More creative accountancy at it's best I think! :rolleyes:

Where do they get figures for unemployment from, if the people are not registered unemployed?
Surely the only true figure is the one relating to benefits.

For the other figure how do they calculate it? It seems meaningless, or am a missing some salient but arcane point? :(

They say that it takes around 3 years for a new Government to make itself felt on the economy of a nation.

So, let's do the sums... Labour in power for 10 years, unemployment at the highest level in 7 years and rising.
You don' t remember the 70's then ?

I remember piles of rubbish in the streets, candles and blue TV screens.

I remember piles of rubbish in the streets, candles and blue TV screens.
an you try tellin that to the young uns o' t'day an they waint belive ya' :D

so Mrs T's party left it all set up for the Reds to takeover.
Then they go and muck it all up.
Highest unemployment for 7 years, inflation due to rise to over 3%, interest rates rising again and set to rise again for the forseeable future, fuel prices going up.

The only benefit is Mrs T crushed the unions otherwise they'd all be back on strike again.

The only benefit is Mrs T crushed the unions otherwise they'd all be back on strike again.
Though it seems that New Labour have mucked it up enough so that van drivers can threaten to bring the NHS to it's knees. Bring back her Ladyship!

so Mrs T's party left it all set up for the Reds to takeover.
Then they go and muck it all up.
Highest unemployment for 7 years, inflation due to rise to over 3%, interest rates rising again and set to rise again for the forseeable future, fuel prices going up.

The only benefit is Mrs T crushed the unions otherwise they'd all be back on strike again.

I don't think you can really credit the butcher for oil prices being low during her reign of terror, nor labour for them going up recently.

1.7 million is not all that high considering what it has been in the past though.

I don't think you can really credit the butcher for oil prices being low during her reign of terror, nor labour for them going up recently.


so people didnt blame her or her party when things went pear shaped?
yeah right, everyone was behind them.

responsibility lies at the feet of the ruling party.
perhaps certain foreign policies of the current government have driven the prices up?

1.7 million is not all that high considering what it has been in the past though.


quite right its not.
but the labour manifesto to reduce unemployment further. along with pledges to reduce taxation, reduce inflation,interest rates and strengthen the economy.

which one have they actually achieved?

but the labour manifesto to reduce unemployment further. along with pledges to reduce taxation, reduce inflation,interest rates and strengthen the economy.


Well who believed they would actually do that ?
Not me for one.

I would also question the "Inflation Rate" figures during recent years too.

More creative accountancy at it's best I think! :rolleyes:
Inflation figures are low because of the effects of globalisation. We can buy goods like TV's, microwaves, computers etc, far cheaper now because of all the cheap imports from countries where labour costs are very low. This counters high rises in other things like house prices and keep the figures artifially low.

Unemploying going up, interest rates likely to go up soon, first time buyers priced out of the housing market and 3/4 million home owners reportedly now missing mortgage repayments. A house price crash is looming me thinks.

Not good news for a government whose foreign policy has increased the threat from terrorism and cost us billions of pounds.

The Blair legacy will be to condemn his party to the opposition bench for the next decade. We can only hope that a new improved Labour party emerges from the flames and that those ministers who supported Blair in his twilight years of madness quickly diminish into the abyss where all political yes-men belong.

the fact that they specifically exclude house prices from the calculation helps to keep the figure low.

... which I agree with if the figures are to be at all representative over the long term, but it is conversely one of the major factors affecting interest rate adjustments.

That's called having your cake and eating it. ;)

I think the Tories are going to need at least 10yrs to put the mistakes of new Labour right at the next general election until the new new labour come along and put it all wrong wrong again.

If Maggies policies were implimented as they were meant to be and immigration was kept on tap and I don't believe we would have entered the Iraq war under a Tory Govt. then things would be very different now.

The Tory party broke the back of the rot in this Country.. the unions, who used to run Labour Govts. in their day.

Now Labour are left with power crazed fanatics who won't stand down when he is going.. going.. but not gone and another desperate to have a year or two out of it.... sad for us the recipients really.

1. the population is increasing each year so the amount of possible people contributing towards this figure is growing, not decreasing.

2. People on income support, disability type benefits do not count towards the unemployed rate. Only people claiming jobseekers allowance contribute towards the figure.

3. Manufactoring is moving overseas to asian countries, hence large scale, sudden, unemployment.

4. small business going under is at an all time high.

5. The governments objective is to move people off income support and disability type benefits, where they shouldn't be on them. So they go on to Jobseekers, so an increase.

So of course there is an increase, whichever gov. was ruling it would happen.

It's swings and roundabouts. Thatcher shunted a load of jobless onto invalidity benefit, Blair is in the process of shunting them all back again :D

Anyway who believes a govt. statistic ? :suspect:

1. the population is increasing each year so the amount of possible people contributing towards this figure is growing, not decreasing.

2. People on income support, disability type benefits do not count towards the unemployed rate. Only people claiming jobseekers allowance contribute towards the figure.

3. Manufacturing is moving overseas to asian countries, hence large scale, sudden, unemployment.

4. small business going under is at an all time high.

5. The governments objective is to move people off income support and disability type benefits, where they shouldn't be on them. So they go on to Jobseekers, so an increase.

So of course there is an increase, whichever gov. was ruling it would happen.

1. the population is increasing but not sure if that is reflected in the unemployment rate as it's mostly through migration who can't claim benefits in the first year and many aren't citizens here for the long-haul. Could be wrong though.

2. The ONS figures include overall unemployment, not just jobseekers. It's still risen.

3. Manufacturing has been shedding jobs, like every major economy but it's not affected the unemployment rate for the past 14 years, with the huge growth in the economy since 1992... until this year. The unions claim 90,000 job losses in manufacturing this year... so it's half that in reality. Doesn't make up the 282,000 increase overall.

4. Small business start-ups are at an all-time high. Saw an article that there's a huge rise - about 30% ? year on year. Failure is inevitable for some for those.

5. The ONS figures include jobseekers and also others and there's still been a rise.

What we need is more immigrants. And their extended families. And the 6 or 8 children that they are likely to each have starting as soon as they're into their teens.

It'll all be much better when we have a population of 80 or 90 million, most claiming benefits and voting for Sharia law.

In about 60 years.

It's swings and roundabouts. Thatcher shunted a load of jobless onto invalidity benefit, Blair is in the process of shunting them all back again :D

Anyway who believes a govt. statistic ? :suspect:
This is where the tragedy is, nearly all the profit from North Sea Oil went on social security payments, so Thatcher could pursue her mad ambition of monetarism. It didn't matter how many unemployed there were, it could all be paid for by selling off all our profitable industries and wasting the natural resources of the country.
Some people have written about the unions as if they were some great ogre.
The unions are there to protect you, and improve your life style in the face of people like Thatcher.

I will tell you now, 95% of the people posting on here would not even be able imagine the lifestyle we lead today, if it had not been for the actions of the trade unions in the last two centuries.
We would still be living in the squalour that is , unfortunately prevalent in the Third World countries that the unscrupulous manufacturing barons have taken their work to now.

The ones that have remained here, are recruiting from new members of the EEC, who are willing to work at poverty line wages, with blatant disregard of H&S Laws etc.

For the most part these young Polishmen etc are not living in luxury, they are in the kind of conditions that would not be unfamiliar to Charles Dickens.

People who talk of voting tory are just proving that Rupert Murdoch has a much greater hold over the mind of people in this country, than I ever imagined.

When he says 'jump' the people of this country do as he tells them.

Unemployment up by 90,000 plus but the number of people claiming benefit fell by 2,500:huh:

Lies, damned lies, and statistics. To be perfectly honest, what I find even more worrying is that I heard about the latest 'massage' on Radio 2 earlier by the following broadcast:

"The number of people claiming unemployment benefit has increased to its highest level for 7 years".

As a former Civil Servant, I know that UB was scrapped, and replaced for those deemed to be able to work, with Jobseeker's Allowance in 1996. I might be nitpicking, but ........

Even the broadcasting arm of the Government gets it incorrect.

Lies, damned lies, and statistics. To be perfectly honest, what I find even more worrying is that I heard about the latest 'massage' on Radio 2 earlier by the following broadcast:

"The number of people claiming unemployment benefit has increased to its highest level for 7 years".

As a former Civil Servant, I know that UB was scrapped, and replaced for those deemed to be able to work, with Jobseeker's Allowance in 1996. I might be nitpicking, but ........

Even the broadcasting arm of the Government gets it incorrect.

The number of people registered as unemployed, rose sharply but people claiming JSA has fallen in these current figures but the number claiming JSA in the year as a whole has risen by 80,000.

The percentage of the current workforce able to work and in work has risen to its highest level since 1971. Figures courtesy of the National Stats office:

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=12

Clear as mud:huh:

Unemployment up by 90,000 plus but the number of people claiming benefit fell by 2,500:huh:

Not all people registering as unemployed actually claim benefit. Some register to get their credits and some people, who have savings over the limit, or a partner in work do not receive anything through JSA.

Not all people registering as unemployed actually claim benefit. Some register to get their credits and some people, who have savings over the limit, or a partner in work do not receive anything through JSA.
So they are not actually, in the sense of the word unemployed. They are just using the system to get NI paid with none of the pressure to get a job.

It is time this system was sorted out.

This all started with Thatchers juggling the figures to make it look as if we wernt losing money, hand over fist, to her half baked ideas.

Unemployment up.

Massive numbers loosing their houses
http://www.gtuk.com/pages/press_room-press_releases-personal_insolvencies_rise_yet_again_as_over_£78_b illion_of_bad_debt_could_lead_to_tighter_lending_p olicies_and_house_reposession_increases_.html
The number of personal insolvencies in England and Wales is spiralling out of control with 26,021 individuals going into a bankruptcy or an IVA* (Individual Voluntary Arrangement) during the second quarter of 2006

Business insolvencies up
http://www.ntda.co.uk/shownews.asp?newsid=769
Motor Trade Insolvencies Up 67.9% on 2005

Gloom descends on motor trade as business insolvencies rise

http://www.viploan.co.uk/article/Debt-1889.shtml
LONDON: Corporate insolvencies in Britain went up 11 per cent in 2005 and experts attributed the cause to slowdown in consumer spending, high energy costs and high prevalence of red tape.

With even more this year.
http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/otherinformation/statistics/200604/index.htm
COMPANY LIQUIDATIONS
There were 3,439 liquidations in England and Wales in the first quarter of 2006 on a seasonally adjusted basis. This was an increase of 7.6% on the previous quarter and an increase of 17.0% on the same period a year ago.


Oh golly I must be wrong
http://www.durhamlabour.org.uk/dclp/trib0103/boom.htm
On "Breakfast with Frost" in January, Prime Minister Tony Blair said "There are two very clear choices before the electorate - stability in the economy versus old Tory boom and bust; investment in public services versus cuts in services"

Mr Smirk says so :hihi:

Reccessions follow booms, as winter follows summer. If anyone really believed that we had entered some eternal economic golden age, they were always in for a rude awakening.

No matter who's in power, Labour or Tory, we have a world population which is spiraling out of control, most of whom live in dire poverty. It is only a matter of time before this stark fact begins to impact on our cosy Western bubble, which so many people confuse with reality.

On top of that, there is global warming, which, among other things, is going to deplete water supplies - especially in those third world countries with burgeoning populations - leading to more wars and massive migrations of people.

Then there's the impending global energy crisis.

Neither Labour nor Tory have any real plans to do a thing about the very serious problems which are coming our way, whilst we bicker over whether our soft bellies grew fatter under Thatcher or Blair.

Reccessions follow booms, as winter follows summer. If anyone really believed that we had entered some eternal economic golden age, they were always in for a rude awakening.

No matter who's in power, Labour or Tory, we have a world population which is spiraling out of control, most of whom live in dire poverty. It is only a matter of time before this stark fact begins to impact on our cosy Western bubble, which so many people confuse with reality.

On top of that, there is a looming global warming crisis, which is going to deplete water supplies - especially in those third world countries with burgeoning populations - leading to more wars and massive migrations of people. Neither Labour or Tory have any real plans to do a thing about the very serious problems which are coming our way, whilst we bicker over whether our soft bellies grew fatter under Thatcher or Blair.

Oh yes, and there's an impending Global energy crisis, as a result of the unions in the 1970s I suppose.

Excellent posting, donkey. Very well put. A bit of a 'fiddling while Rome burns' situation. Faffing around while the planet tips towards disaster....

No matter who's in power, Labour or Tory, we have a world population which is spiraling out of control, most of whom live in dire poverty. It is only a matter of time before this stark fact begins to impact on our cosy Western bubble, which so many people confuse with reality.
On top of that, there is global warming, which, among other things, is going to deplete water supplies - especially in those third world countries with burgeoning populations - leading to more wars and massive migrations of people.
.The third world population boom is the biggest problem we face on this earth, greater even than the obsessive nature of the Islamic religion.

By interfering with the course of nature in these countries, and giving them food and medical aid, we have artificially created a huge increase to their survival rates – and should now rue our stupidity.

These primitive cultures are hundreds, if not thousands, of years behind us in social development and we cannot educate them to control their base urges, which have evolved to give them the high birth rates they have needed for millennia to survive. If we help more to survive, they will just breed out of control -as they are doing. The only way to stop their excessive breeding is to withdraw all aid activity and let nature take its course, bringing their populations back into natural balance.

What we have done in ‘helping’ the third world has been well-intended by people who didn’t think about the long-term consequences. Obviously we can’t just cull them, but we must stop helping them to survive and breed, or the world will go down the tubes. We should cut the developing world off, altogether, and let its inhabitants revert back to their natural equilibrium, in which their numbers are controlled by their environment and local food sources.

What we have done in ‘helping’ the third world has been well-intended by people who didn’t think about the long-term consequences. Obviously we can’t just cull them, but we must stop helping them to survive and breed, or the world will go down the tubes. We should cut the developing world off, altogether, and let its inhabitants revert back to their natural equilibrium, in which their numbers are controlled by their environment and local food sources.


Do I detect Malthus??

Do I detect Malthus??Indeed - if only he could see the mess we've created now. Based on his - very accurate - view that "the root cause of pauperism was the excessive procreation of the lower classes", the poor chap must be turning in his grave at the foolish involvement we are now having in the developing world.

The third world population boom is the biggest problem we face on this earth, greater even than the obsessive nature of the Islamic religion.

By interfering with the course of nature in these countries, and giving them food and medical aid, we have artificially created a huge increase to their survival rates – and should now rue our stupidity.

These primitive cultures are hundreds, if not thousands, of years behind us in social development and we cannot educate them to control their base urges, which have evolved to give them the high birth rates they have needed for millennia to survive. If we help more to survive, they will just breed out of control -as they are doing. The only way to stop their excessive breeding is to withdraw all aid activity and let nature take its course, bringing their populations back into natural balance.

What we have done in ‘helping’ the third world has been well-intended by people who didn’t think about the long-term consequences. Obviously we can’t just cull them, but we must stop helping them to survive and breed, or the world will go down the tubes. We should cut the developing world off, altogether, and let its inhabitants revert back to their natural equilibrium, in which their numbers are controlled by their environment and local food sources.
That has to be the cruellest, coldest, yet most logical post ive ever read.

That has to be the cruellest, coldest, yet most logical post ive ever read.I'm sure that a few posters (names spring to mind) will be calling me all sorts of names for posting that view. There’s nothing hateful in the way I see it - I am, as you correctly identify, merely commenting on the issue in a cold and factual way.

We do tend to bugger things up in life when we make decisions, and choose courses of action, based around emotive issues. Take that emotion out, and you can make more sensible decisions.
There's quite a lot of sensitive emotion among the Forum members and I expect little in the way of support for that post.

Where do they get figures for unemployment from, if the people are not registered unemployed?
Surely the only true figure is the one relating to benefits.

For the other figure how do they calculate it? It seems meaningless, or am a missing some salient but arcane point? :(

You would think that the only true figure is relating to unemployment benefits but that would be too easy

That has to be the cruellest, coldest, yet most logical post ive ever read.

He is right to a certain extent but isnt part of our nature to help others?