Having watched the house debate butler I found that although I personally did not agree with sending the troops in to Iraq I thought Blair won the debate hands down.
Howard seemed to rest his argument on the fact that there was not enough cabinet imput into the decisions which were made,but I can remember when the same accusation was levelled at Mrs T hatcher about the falklands war so maybe some things never change.
As for the lib dems I also thought that Charles Kennedy gave a good performance,but like I said I thought Howard was awful.

We have a liar in number 10. Some have known this for a long time. It is time he left

Originally posted by Lickszz
We have a liar in number 10. Some have known this for a long time. It is time he left

Shock horror probe: "MP is a liar".

Film at eleven.

Nomme

Originally posted by royjames
...Howard was awful.
I agree, but why the past tense?

Originally posted by nomme
Shock horror probe: "MP is a liar".

Film at eleven.

Nomme

An habitiual liar to be precise and apart from being glib is about the only person who could talk his way out of a time locked bank vault.

Originally posted by Lickszz
An habitiual liar to be precise and apart from being glib is about the only person who could talk his way out of a time locked bank vault.

Shock, horror probe "MP is an habitual liar AND a skillful orator!"

Film at eleven.

Nomme

Originally posted by royjames
Having watched the house debate butler I found that although I personally did not agree with sending the troops in to Iraq I thought Blair won the debate hands down.
Howard seemed to rest his argument on the fact that there was not enough cabinet imput into the decisions which were made,but I can remember when the same accusation was levelled at Mrs T hatcher about the falklands war so maybe some things never change.
As for the lib dems I also thought that Charles Kennedy gave a good performance,but like I said I thought Howard was awful.

Interesting you mention about the Falklands war because Blair was caught out when he echoed one of Thatchers famous lines. He told the Iraqi war critics to rejoice just like Thatcher had done when Britain regained South Georgia.

I've long held the view that Thatcher gave up a ******* son for adoption............

People know where I come from but you have to admit Blair is quality,old teflon tony does it again, hammers Howard I mean.

Howard was in a hopeless position after fully supporting the war. Unlike Teflon T who invented the WMD threat to justify it, Howard seemed to think that regime change had suffiicient merit on its own to justify war.
He's not in a position to bleat about distortion of intelligence and outright lies when he didn't think that posession of WMD had to be proved to justify invasion. He was prepared to go with no evidence at all!
I am amazed that he could'nt see what was coming in the Commons. Thanks to Howard we are left with an even more smug and arrogant PM, surrounded by sychophants who are even smarmier and more nauseating than ever. Never mind, every time some one has to watch this specatacle they lose a few more votes

Originally posted by Ned Ludd
Howard was in a hopeless position after fully supporting the war. Unlike Teflon T who invented the WMD threat to justify it, Howard seemed to think that regime change had suffiicient merit on its own to justify war.
He's not in a position to bleat about distortion of intelligence and outright lies when he didn't think that posession of WMD had to be proved to justify invasion. He was prepared to go with no evidence at all!
I am amazed that he could'nt see what was coming in the Commons. Thanks to Howard we are left with an even more smug and arrogant PM, surrounded by sychophants who are even smarmier and more nauseating than ever. Never mind, every time some one has to watch this specatacle they lose a few more votes Who is they?
If you mean all the parties then I agree, but I will still wager in spite of butler and previous reports un fortunatley blair will get back in next time
There is no justice is their?

Originally posted by royjames
Who is they?
If you mean all the parties then I agree.....
I meant New Labour with it's Ben Bradshaws, Don Alexander's, Eric Joyces etc . God, I feel sick just typing their names. Smug, patronising, smarmy. Blair's given them the Stepford Wives treatment. Either that or it's the Invasion of the Body Snatchers. They couldn't possibly be human could they?
'Course you are right about Howard, not so much shot himself in the foot as between his ears!

yes you are right about smarmy,and as for Howard well he is a waste of space.

Originally posted by Ned Ludd
I meant New Labour with it's Ben Bradshaws, Don Alexander's, Eric Joyces etc . God, I feel sick just typing their names. Smug, patronising, smarmy. Blair's given them the Stepford Wives treatment. Either that or it's the Invasion of the Body Snatchers. They couldn't possibly be human could they?
'Course you are right about Howard, not so much shot himself in the foot as between his ears!
aS with all things...The current people in power do what they want and get away with it..
A time for change?

It is up to the voters that can get out there and vote...to change what is going off!
who you vote for and why, is your decision...no one else.

What can i say...you see the lies, The deciet but are you able to do anything about it?

How about a military coupe? Too busy? Then we'll have to make do with the Salvation Army. At least we would get honesty, together with pies and peas. :D

Im afraid until the voting system is changed to the p r system and i'm open to which system in particular then we will never get real democracy in this country.
The trouble is it will never see the light of day,we have in this country what I woul'd call a closed shop when it comes to the electoral process.
The present system is always going to favour the big 2,and until we get the situation where the lib dems have the deciding vote in a hung parliment and can effect change then it's just tough for the rest of us.

Originally posted by royjames
Im afraid until the voting system is changed to the p r system and i'm open to which system in particular then we will never get real democracy in this country.
The trouble is it will never see the light of day,we have in this country what I woul'd call a closed shop when it comes to the electoral process.
The present system is always going to favour the big 2,and until we get the situation where the lib dems have the deciding vote in a hung parliment and can effect change then it's just tough for the rest of us.


well there at least we find ourselves in complete agreement. :D

Well Phan it just goes to show you never can tell who you might agree with.

Originally posted by royjames
Well Phan it just goes to show you never can tell who you might agree with.

Well i would fully expect PR to be something you support, or your party will probably never make it to parliament.

Pity you didn't get any euro seats, as the UKIP is now swimming in Euros for campaigns etc, on the back of their Euro election successes. They'll be giving it all back as tainted money from hardworking taxpayers at least ;)

Dont know about that Phan,but you also agree we need change so shoul'd this not be a by partisan approach?
I have always thought this is needed even when shock horror yes I used to vote labour
The present system simple diss en franchises the people,it does not represent ALL strands of public opion and as such does not reflect the views of all the people.

Originally posted by Lickszz
How about a military coupe? Too busy? Then we'll have to make do with the Salvation Army. At least we would get honesty, together with pies and peas. :D
I like it. Teflon, Mandleson, Blumnkett can be detained indefinately by Generalissimo Booth and held in Hermit's cells on Guano Island. Confiscate their hand made suits and give them course sack-cloth habits. They should then have bible readings played into their cages through loudspeakers for 18 hours a day: "the meek shall inherit the earth", "thou shall not kill", "love thy neighbour" A bit of self flagellation would be highly desirable as well (as long as it's not seen to be providing enjoyment)
No pie and peas for them though. A loaf and five sardines for the week should suffice:thumbsup:

Yes Ned you have it about right when it comes to new labour,only I woul'd stick them somewhere nice and cold,the falklands woul'd do just right.