why do people feel the need to bring people down over their english grammer? it is obvious when people are using text speak but english grammer is totally different. do some of you not realise some people have learning dificulties? :rolleyes:

*Ahem* Its grammar, not grammer.;)

im not editing it i cant be bothered:hihi:

why do people feel the need to bring people down over their english grammer? it is obvious when people are using text speak but english grammer is totally different. do some of you not realise some people have learning dificulties? :rolleyes:

They must have learning difficulties too if they havn't learnt that people have difficulties with spelling etc due to different ilnesses :huh:

2 fs in difficulties :P

yes which goes to prove i have a problem and shouldnt be brought down for it! i wouldnt bring people down on something they cant do its nasty!:rant:

But no effin spellchecker.

2 fs in difficulties
But no effin spellchecker.

i know this thread makes me sound thick but im not actually im very good at other things. its just to show a few people including a mod! are out of order doing this.:rant:

The best thing to do is just ignore 'em.

If all they can have a go at you for is your spelling, then they haven't much to have a go at you for have they!

What difficulties do you have Jena?

i know this thread makes me sound thick but im not actually im very good at other things. its just to show a few people including a mod! are out of order doing this.:rant:

You are right!!

I know jena and she does have a illness which she doesn't really like to talk about..it does affect her spelling and grammer and alot of other things too..she likes to try and forget about it..

Its not right to come on here and be shamed from a mod or anyone else about her grammar etc!!!

What difficulties do you have Jena?
i dont wish to broadcast my difficulties! just dont think its right to be brought down all the time

Before the advent of computers, we had typing pools full of young women to do all the typing of documents.
When you think about it they had to be spot on every time.
It was straight to paper, no spelling or even spacing mistakes, one error and it was start again. No spell checkers or cut and paste.
Those girls were never the credit for their typing ability really. (they were given credit for other things though :hihi: )

Fair enough, you don't want to broadcast your difficulties. If you don't let people know what the problem is how are they to know to make allowances for this?

i know this thread makes me sound thick but im not actually im very good at other things. its just to show a few people including a mod! are out of order doing this.:rant:
This thread does not make you sound thick, it highlights the ignorance of people who find nothing makes them feel better than pointing out other peoples flaws. You manage to make yourself understood and the things you say are intellegent enough. Don't let people like that get you down, their own inadequacies must be pretty vast if they feel the need to point out everyone elses. Good on you girl:thumbsup:

Those girls were never the credit for their typing ability really. (they were given credit for other things though :hihi: )

Please elucidate artisan. :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

Before the advent of computers, we had typing pools full of young women to do all the typing of documents.
When you think about it they had to be spot on every time.
It was straight to paper, no spelling or even spacing mistakes, one error and it was start again. No spell checkers or cut and paste.
Those girls were never the credit for their typing ability really. (they were given credit for other things though :hihi: )
:confused: :huh:

Fair enough, you don't want to broadcast your difficulties. If you don't let people know what the problem is how are they to know to make allowances for this?
well its obvious i cant understand english grammar for one why do people feel the need to tell me though?:huh:

This thread does not make you sound thick, it highlights the ignorance of people who find nothing makes them feel better than pointing out other peoples flaws. You manage to make yourself understood and the things you say are intellegent enough. Don't let people like that get you down, their own inadequacies must be pretty vast if they feel the need to point out everyone elses. Good on you girl:thumbsup:
thanks mojo its nice to see some people understand :thumbsup:

Please elucidate artisan. :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:
They some times ....er...made the coffee!, thats it, made the coffee! :hihi:

I would just ignore it TBH, not worth getting worked up over. Imperfect spelling and grammar doesn't bother me as long as the poster makes sense. You are coming across perfectly well at the moment.

Please elucidate

Please stop using articulate words in your inimitable loquacious style Shoeshine, otherwise, I'm going to get all upset and start crying like.......:hihi:

They some times ....er...made the coffee!, thats it, made the coffee! :hihi:

Thanks, friend..........I was imagining all sorts of things for a moment there!

:hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :help:

Fair enough, you don't want to broadcast your difficulties. If you don't let people know what the problem is how are they to know to make allowances for this?

Surely the fact that she has said she has a problem,backed up by another forummer is sufficient? You sure you're not just being nosey :suspect:
Jena-i agree 100% with what you are saying.So what if grammar and spelling arent perfect? 9 times out of 10 it can still be read and understood. Just makes people feel superior to knock others down.It just makes them seem petty and self righteous IMO....

I would just ignore it TBH, not worth getting worked up over. Imperfect spelling and grammar doesn't bother me as long as the poster makes sense. You are coming across perfectly well at the moment.

Quite agree :thumbsup:

Please stop using articulate words in your inimitable loquacious style Shoeshine, otherwise, I'm going to get all upset and start crying like.......:hihi:
is that supposed to be funny! :rant:

is that supposed to be funny! :rant:

Read the post above your last to find the answer.

Please stop using articulate words in your inimitable loquacious style Shoeshine, otherwise, I'm going to get all upset and start crying like.......:hihi:

Pull the other one........get the Firefox browser on with "Chambers Dictionary" attached.

It werks wunders fo yur spelin! :hihi:

Read the post above your last to find the answer.
ok i appologise just feel abit touchy right now. sorry :)

I have never found your posts hard to read jena76. Any spelling mistakes you have made have passed me by.

This is the kind of post I find hard to understand, "i cent udnrestandd y peepl laffat myy wrighting wen im triing 2 doe da bst i can butt its nott mi falt if im not clevver isit". Especially when it's a 300 word rant.

Surely the fact that she has said she has a problem,backed up by another forummer is sufficient? You sure you're not just being nosey :suspect:
Jena-i agree 100% with what you are saying.So what if grammar and spelling arent perfect? 9 times out of 10 it can still be read and understood. Just makes people feel superior to knock others down.It just makes them seem petty and self righteous IMO....


OK OK I'm a nosey mare.:hihi:

People are superior and self righteous on here all the time, why should they be any different over grammar? <off to find a thesaurus so I can sound like the kleeky elite>

I have never found your posts hard to read jena76. Any spelling mistakes you have made have passed me by.

This is the kind of post I find hard to understand, "i cent udnrestandd y peepl laffat myy wrighting wen im triing 2 doe da bst i can butt its nott mi falt if im not clevver isit". Especially when it's a 300 word rant.
thanks saxon :thumbsup:

ok i appologise just feel abit touchy right now. sorry :)

No worries jena. Don't be so hard on yourself and ignore the Trolls. Your posts look fine to me........none of us are perfect.......that would make us so boring.

thanks saxon :thumbsup:
The pleasure is all mine .... but then I am a selfish lover. :bigsmile:

The pleasure is all mine .... but then I am a selfish lover. :bigsmile:
:hihi: :hihi: glad i aint sharing your bed :hihi:

No worries jena. Your posts look fine to me........none of us are perfect.......that would make us so boring.

What about Mary Poppins, she was 'practically perfect in every way'
Practically = virtually = to all intents and puposes. :hihi:

I have never found your posts hard to read jena76. Any spelling mistakes you have made have passed me by.

This is the kind of post I find hard to understand, "i cent udnrestandd y peepl laffat myy wrighting wen im triing 2 doe da bst i can butt its nott mi falt if im not clevver isit". Especially when it's a 300 word rant.

I think the same - there is a difference between the odd spelling mistake or grammatical error and complete gobbledygook! I'd also rather have spelling mistakes than txtspk on the forum.

I don't think most people pull other people up because of their spelling mistakes-------especially the odd one that doesn't make any difference to the meaning . If people do that , well , it's a bit petty , to say the least !
I think Macbeth 's correct in saying that it's when words descend into complete gibberish that people start complaining and being a bit nasty .
However , a lot of people , make the sort of grammatical mistake that makes it almost impossible to follow the thread of a discussion or the meaning . To give a simple example , people say ,
" So Mr. X and Mr. Y were both there and he said............"
Already you're getting confused because no-one knows who " he " is .A few of those ; bad punctuation so that you don't know where one idea ends and the next begins ; PLUS a few spelling mistakes ---------and the average reader moves onto something else or gets a bit sarcastic in revenge for someone wasting their time in the first place .
I can't think of anyone on S.F who would stoop so low as to laugh at or criticise someone with any sort of disability . The thing is , on S.F. ,we usually have to take everyone at face value , unless they tell us something about themselves beforehand .

well its obvious i cant understand english grammar for one why do people feel the need to tell me though?:huh:

Perhaps because although you are able to make yourself understood, you would help the readers of your posts if you used a capital letter for the first word of each new sentence. It is interesting to note that you do use punctuation in your sentence construction, so why is it you don't then follow a full stop with a capital letter for the first word that follows in the next setence?

Following this simple rule makes it easier on the eye to read what you have written. I've highlighted my own first letters of this poost to illustrate what I mean. Hope that helps jena76. :thumbsup:

Red

Edit: Yeah folks, I've now spotted the typing error, but have decided to leave it in!

http://grammartime.ytmnd.com/

As most people on here will observe, I am a 'messy' typist. I have a habit of mis-spelling words like 'that' as 'taht' and 'the' as 'teh'. I will sometimes correct these faults, but often I'm lazy and will let them lie.

That's one reason why I rarely pick up on grammar or spelling - however, there are times when it IS important to get the rudiments of grammar correct. If a user strings together words in to a massive chunk with no capital letters, few full stops and no paragraph breaks then it could be the most brilliant piece of discourse ever submitted to bytes of memor, but I will not bother reading it.

If you're debating a point on here, and you stick a comma in the wrong place, it can actually change the meaning of your sentence!

My attitude is that if the failings in grammar or spelling affect the communication of thoughts between two people then the spelling and grammar needs picking up on, because it can lead to either teh writer being ignored or mis-understood. And that's when rows start. :)

I don't think most people pull other people up because of their spelling mistakes-------especially the odd one that doesn't make any difference to the meaning . If people do that , well , it's a bit petty , to say the least !
I think Macbeth 's correct in saying that it's when words descend into complete gibberish that people start complaining and being a bit nasty .
However , a lot of people , make the sort of grammatical mistake that makes it almost impossible to follow the thread of a discussion or the meaning . To give a simple example , people say ,
" So Mr. X and Mr. Y were both there and he said............"
Already you're getting confused because no-one knows who " he " is .A few of those ; bad punctuation so that you don't know where one idea ends and the next begins ; PLUS a few spelling mistakes ---------and the average reader moves onto something else or gets a bit sarcastic in revenge for someone wasting their time in the first place .
I can't think of anyone on S.F who would stoop so low as to laugh at or criticise someone with any sort of disability . The thing is , on S.F. ,we usually have to take everyone at face value , unless they tell us something about themselves beforehand .

I have always struggled to read your longer posts Fareast. Maybe this thread is a suitable opportunity to suggest that you would help your readers if you used the standard convention of leaving a gap between your paragraphs. Compare your above post to the one below....


I don't think most people pull other people up because of their spelling mistakes-------especially the odd one that doesn't make any difference to the meaning . If people do that , well , it's a bit petty , to say the least !

I think Macbeth 's correct in saying that it's when words descend into complete gibberish that people start complaining and being a bit nasty .

However , a lot of people , make the sort of grammatical mistake that makes it almost impossible to follow the thread of a discussion or the meaning . To give a simple example , people say ,
" So Mr. X and Mr. Y were both there and he said............"

Already you're getting confused because no-one knows who " he " is .A few of those ; bad punctuation so that you don't know where one idea ends and the next begins ; PLUS a few spelling mistakes ---------and the average reader moves onto something else or gets a bit sarcastic in revenge for someone wasting their time in the first place .

I can't think of anyone on S.F who would stoop so low as to laugh at or criticise someone with any sort of disability . The thing is , on S.F. ,we usually have to take everyone at face value , unless they tell us something about themselves beforehand .

I suspect that sometimes the average reader of your posts moves onto something else because reading your posts is hard on the eye. That would be a pity, as I myself always find your posts interesting to read. I may not always agree with the content, but you nearly always have an interesting point of view.

How many readers miss out on hearing your views though because you cram all your words together, as you don't leave spaces between paragraphs?

It would certainly help me with my poor eyesight if you did. Hope that helps? :thumbsup:

Red

I think the same - there is a difference between the odd spelling mistake or grammatical error and complete gobbledygook! I'd also rather have spelling mistakes than txtspk on the forum.

I believe that txtspk on the forum is (rightly) frowned upon!

I read this thread through and it reminded me of something I read in a magazine this week..I thought it was apt.

Perfect women are not real because real women are not perfect......

I agree with cloudybay...total perfection would be boring....:)

Macbeth says exactly what I feel.....:thumbsup:

redrobbo, I actually spotted 2 typos...:hihi:

I read this thread through and it reminded me of something I read in a magazine this week..I thought it was apt.

Perfect women are not real because real women are not perfect......

I agree with cloudybay...total perfection would be boring....:)

Macbeth says exactly what I feel.....:thumbsup:

redrobbo, I actually spotted 2 typos...:hihi:

Well spotted Joanl! :clap:

I noticed 'poost', but overlooked 'setence'! :rolleyes:

Ok folks, I'm leaving BOTH typos in! :hihi:

I'm not the best person for spelling but I do find it good practice to check out the correct spellings of words.
Also when reading other people's posts it's better for me to see the correct spelling as it helps my own.

Thanks for your comments. The reason i was annoyed by this was a certain mod pulled me up on it just because he didnt like what i had put! It just made me realise what my son may have to go through because he cant even string a sentence together! I did complain about the mod to geoff and he said he would look into it.Thanks for the help redrobbo but i have no doubtedly done it wrong and someone will pull me up on it.This really annoys me as it is bullying:rant:

Thanks for your comments. The reason i was annoyed by this was a certain mod pulled me up on it just because he didnt like what i had put! It just made me realise what my son may have to go through because he cant even string a sentence together! I did complain about the mod to geoff and he said he would look into it.Thanks for the help redrobbo but i have no doubtedly done it wrong and someone will pull me up on it.This really annoys me as it is bullying:rant:

Hey jena76 - what a difference that post makes! :thumbsup: Well done :clap:

nb. redrobbo keeps to the minimujm amount of words on this poost, as he knows joanl is checking his speling for ewrrors :hihi:

nb. redrobbo keeps to the minimujm amount of words on this poost, as he knows joanl is checking his speling for ewrrors :hihi:

:hihi: :hihi: Ha! but you see with your first one, I myself, would have blamed my keyboard if I had done that.....just proves my point, none of us are perfect....
One might try, but don't always succeed......(I'll leave that to my budgie) Besides, what's a few typos hey.:thumbsup::hihi: :hihi:

Hey jena76 - what a difference that post makes! :thumbsup: Well done :clap:

nb. redrobbo keeps to the minimujm amount of words on this poost, as he knows joanl is checking his speling for ewrrors :hihi:
Thanks red robbo:)

What difficulties do you have Jena?

You're opening up a big can of worms there :hihi:

Some people pick up on a spelling error when they can't actually refute what's been written, as if finding any fault somehow makes them correct.

Most people just ignore minor errors and slight mistakes, they don't matter as long as the post can be understood.

Personally I particularly dislike posts where every word Has A Capital Letter As It Gets Very Difficult To Read for some reason.

Personally I particularly dislike posts where every word Has A Capital Letter As It Gets Very Difficult To Read for some reason.

This generally happens if the poster writes in FULL capitals, the program reduces the first letter of each word to be a capital only

Personally I particularly dislike posts where every word Has A Capital Letter As It Gets Very Difficult To Read for some reason.

That is one of my pet hates too. I won't read them. And I don't understand the reason for it either... it's incorrect. Capital letters should be saved only for "special occasions"!

EDIT: Just seen this:

This generally happens if the poster writes in FULL capitals, the program reduces the first letter of each word to be a capital only

I didn't know that!

You're opening up a big can of worms there :hihi:
Whats that supposed to mean robbie?:loopy:

People shouldnt not be judged on what they can and cant do. I would never pull someone down because of their english it is wrong and also humiliating for the person

Red Robbo :-
You're quite right . Longish posts do look better with proper paragraph spacing .
My only excuse is that most of the time , posting from here in China , I'm usually in a bit of a rush . This is because the electricity is apt to go off at any time , in the middle of a post .
As far as I can remember , I do start new paragraphs in the correct place when I'm writing a letter-------sometimes by candlelight ! .Another odd habit I have when sending e-mails is leaving a space before a comma . I always think the full stops and commas are too near the words to be really clear . . Another poster { Crookes ? } pointed this fault out .
Thank you for your helpful advice and it is definitely worth keeping in mind , for the future .

P.S . Hey , I've just noticed something else ------truly ! I made a point in the above post to start a new paragraph about a third way along the new line [ as in writing a letter ] .
However , when it appeared on the screen , the new para. had started at the beginning of the line ! Maybe I haven't been doing it wrong ALL the time ? I don't know how it happens but maybe some whizz-kid , as re-computers could tell me .

P.S . Hey , I've just noticed something else ------truly ! I made a point in the above post to start a new paragraph about a third way along the new line [ as in writing a letter ] .
However , when it appeared on the screen , the new para. had started at the beginning of the line ! Maybe I haven't been doing it wrong ALL the time ? I don't know how it happens but maybe some whizz-kid , as re-computers could tell me .

You need to press it harder! :P

Actually, when I quoted your post, it looked to me that you'd clicked the tab button (two arrows going in opposite directions to the left of the keyboard) instead of return key? Would that be right?

People shouldnt not be judged on what they can and cant do. I would never pull someone down because of their english it is wrong and also humiliating for the person

I have a Japanese daughter-in-law and I love to recieve e.mails from her because it is "her" speaking. I read them in "her voice" if you know what I mean.
They are not perfect English but then her spoken English isn't either. However, they ARE her.
I have asked my son never to correct them before she sends them because it just wouldn't be the same...they would then be from "them "not from her.
I know what she is meaning to say, so I don't see it as a problem at all.:)

I have a Japanese daughter-in-law and I love to recieve e.mails from her because it is "her" speaking. I read them in "her voice" if you know what I mean.
They are not perfect English but then her spoken English isn't either. However, they ARE her.
I have asked my son never to correct them before she sends them because it just wouldn't be the same...they would then be from "them "not from her.
I know what she is meaning to say, so I don't see it as a problem at all.:)
I know what u mean. I have to speak to my son sometimes using limited words not full english so that he understands me because thats how he speaks, and sometimes i speak like that without knowing im doing it as it just comes naturally. I find it very annoying to be pulled up on it all the time which has happened on here on numerous occasions :rolleyes:

BoroughGal ,
Thanks for your help and advice . I really do appreciate it . My knowledge about computers and related subjects is almost zero .
I'm sure it wasn't the ' tab ' button that was causing the problem but , apart from my own normal mistakes , the problem is probably that I don't press some of the keys hard enough .
Having said that , I am using a Chinese computer ! Inscrutable , at times !
Anyway , I'll see how the spacing works this time . Thanks again .

No , it's not that -----maybe the spacing is designed for Chinese -style writing , which doesn't seem to have any , or many , paragraphs .

Fareast, to get a proper paragraph, you'd need to press enter twice as this will put an extra line in.

In general, I don't have a problem with people's spelling and/or grammar when it's obviously an error or due to a disability. Where I do have a problem, is when people don't even try to make sense or make their postings legible. This is, after all, a forum which exclusively uses the written word so it's only common courtesy to try and write properly.

Fareast, to get a proper paragraph, you'd need to press enter twice as this will put an extra line in.

In general, I don't have a problem with people's spelling and/or grammar when it's obviously an error or due to a disability. Where I do have a problem, is when people don't even try to make sense or make their postings legible. This is, after all, a forum which exclusively uses the written word so it's only common courtesy to try and write properly.

So how does it come across as a disability?,How would you know this was the case?.

So you feel these people are at fault for not having the common courtesy to try and write properly.

Im sure these people will be glad of your ignorance,,,i mean support

So how does it come across as a disability?,How would you know this was the case?.

So you feel these people are at fault for not having the common courtesy to try and write properly.

Im sure these people will be glad of your ignorance,,,i mean support

1 - experience
2 - experience
3 - which people?
4 - Thank you

1 - experience
2 - experience
3 - which people?
4 - Thank you

Thanks for being so patronising,,,is that how you got to be a mod,or do you have another quality?:hihi:

It happened two or three years ago. A lifechanging moment. A senior socialist on a forum said if you are to keep talking pro-Tory crap (his opinion, of course) can you at least make an effort with grammar.

Took all of three times to make it second nature. Well, at least the basics like won't, don't, can't etc. It doesn't take any longer to type either.

Am still not 100% on grammar and still talk pro-Tory crap (in some people's opinion, of course) but senior socialists are good for some things.... like doing something an entire education didn't. To correct errors in grammar and in doing so make it second nature within a short amount of time.

Have been through most of my old secondary education English books and not once did a teacher correct such errors, nor most of the spelling errors bar a few.

Doesn't stop just about every single post being self-edited but that's more about typing faster than the brain allows which breeds spelling errors. That and sometimes a post needing an added extra bit of hyperbole.

i dont wish to broadcast my difficulties! just dont think its right to be brought down all the time

ur doing pretty well at broadcasting them so far luv

we've just not got a label for em

Many people fail to punctuate, spell and use grammar correctly because they simply can't be bothered to learn. Several appear to wear the distinction as a badge of honour.

A post full of errors can disguise the point its author is trying to put across, and it's certainly painful to read; I generally don't bother.

ur doing pretty well at broadcasting them so far luv

we've just not got a label for em
Im not broadcasting nothing luv! I was just stating that its not fair to point this out as some people do have learning difficulties:rolleyes:

On here, I'll generally only bring people up on their grammar if it's bad enough to make a post confusing, or if that person is correcting someone else's grammar/spelling while not being above reproach themselves.
I tend to regard mine as OK, but by no means perfect, so try to avoid criticising others without good reason.

why do people feel the need to bring people down over their english grammer? it is obvious when people are using text speak but english grammer is totally different. do some of you not realise some people have learning dificulties? :rolleyes:


Because it makes them feel superior ( But there not really ) .

I understand that people make typos, text speak is against the SF rules, some people may be dislexic, etc. There are however some people on SF who see being illiterate as a kind of badge of honour. They think that basic competence in communication skills is suspect, and regularly dismiss correct spellers as 'posh' or 'clever', which is the worst crime in their narrow world. Such rancid inverted snobbery is where my patience runs out, and I'm not the only one. But that's largely due to an attitude thing, rather than an issue of pure nuts and bolts.

Many people fail to punctuate, spell and use grammar correctly because they simply can't be bothered to learn. Several appear to wear the distinction as a badge of honour.

A post full of errors can disguise the point its author is trying to put across, and it's certainly painful to read; I generally don't bother.

How do you know its because they can't be bothered to learn? :huh:

How do you know its because they can't be bothered to learn? :huh:

In my opinion, if you regularly read anything, books, newspapers, even a forum - unless you have a condition such as dyslexia - you'd very soon come to realise if your grammar, spelling and punctuation were below par.

At that point, I'd hope that people would try to hone their skills, if they don't - I'd say it's because they can't be bothered.

Usually, I'd only criticise someone's spelling or grammar if they were incorrectly criticising someone else, which happens quite often on fora. But as someone who used to proof read as part of my job, even simple errors jump out of the page at me and I find it takes my attention away from the message that the poster is trying to convey.

In my opinion, if you regularly read anything, books, newspapers, even a forum - unless you have a condition such as dyslexia - you'd very soon come to realise if your grammar, spelling and punctuation were below par.

At that point, I'd hope that people would try to hone their skills, if they don't - I'd say it's because they can't be bothered.

Usually, I'd only criticise someone's spelling or grammar if they were incorrectly criticising someone else, which happens quite often on fora. But as someone who used to proof read as part of my job, even simple errors jump out of the page at me and I find it takes my attention away from the message that the poster is trying to convey.
I disagree my son is autistic actually and cant understand more than a couple of words at i time using phrases as "it gone" for wheres it gone? and many other things. All i was saying is some people have disabilities so next time you feel the need to pick them up on it DONT! :rant:

How do you know its because they can't be bothered to learn? :huh:

Because (for instance) some forummers actually tried to help the illiterate members with details of adult literacy classes in their area, and got nothing but a vicious tirade of abuse.

Because (for instance) some forummers actually tried to help the illiterate members with details of adult literacy classes in their area, and got nothing but a vicious tirade of abuse.
Where have people given out abuse? :confused:

I never met my grammar, she died before I was born.

I never met my grammar, she died before I was born.
oy! get on your own threads with your nonsense :hihi:

How do you know its because they can't be bothered to learn? :huh:
Because some have admitted as such. There was a discussion about this a few months ago.

EDIT: Didn't spot Purdyamos's post before I posted mine. That was the discussion to which I was referring.

Because some have admitted as such. There was a discussion about this a few months ago.
Some might have said this because they were embarrassed:loopy:

I disagree my son is autistic actually and cant understand more than a couple of words at i time using phrases as "it gone" for wheres it gone? and many other things. All i was saying is some people have disabilities so next time you feel the need to pick them up on it DONT! :rant:

Does your son use the forum? I'm suspecting he's too young. If so, it's not really relevant to comment on him.

BTW - Rich, who posts regularly on here, has some form of Autism, I believe, and his grammar, spelling and typing skills are second to none.

I understand that people make typos, text speak is against the SF rules, some people may be dislexic, etc. There are however some people on SF who see being illiterate as a kind of badge of honour. They think that basic competence in communication skills is suspect, and regularly dismiss correct spellers as 'posh' or 'clever', which is the worst crime in their narrow world. Such rancid inverted snobbery is where my patience runs out, and I'm not the only one. But that's largely due to an attitude thing, rather than an issue of pure nuts and bolts.


dyslexic :hihi: :hihi:

Does your son use the forum? I'm suspecting he's too young. If so, it's not really relevant to comment on him.

BTW - Rich, who posts regularly on here, has some form of Autism, I believe, and his grammar, spelling and typing skills are second to none.
Some autistic people are very bad at some subjects but try and question their maths ability and u will be on a loser! Do u not realise people have a disability worse than others and on different subjects :loopy:

Some might have said this because they were embarrassed:loopy:
You would need to read the original discussion before coming to such a conclusion.

Some autistic people are very bad at some subjects but try and question their maths ability and u will be on a loser! Do u not realise people have a disability worse than others and on different subjects :loopy:
Using the :loopy: smilie isn't doing your argument any favours at all.

well its obvious i cant understand english grammar for one why do people feel the need to tell me though?:huh:

It obviously bothers you, as it does me. I'm dyslexic and so I type what I want to put in the forum, in Word. I then run the spelling and grammar checker through it and then copy and paste it into the forum; what’s so difficult about that?

It obviously bothers you, as it does me. I'm dyslexic and so I type what I want to put in the forum, in Word. I then run the spelling and grammar checker through it and then copy and paste it into the forum; what’s so difficult about that?
:confused:

I've never heard so much s*** from people in my whole life..

I think some people need to grow up!!

I've never heard so much s*** from people in my whole life..

I think some people need to grow up!!
I quite agree...

Using the :loopy: smilie isn't doing your argument any favours at all.

I have to agree, she really needs to limit its use :loopy: :hihi:

I only use the :loopy: sign when people make me think they are by putting such stupid things! :rant:

I quite agree...
Oh sorry i forgot we was arguing against a mod wannabe. Good luck with the job application :rolleyes:

Hecate? A Mod??

Oh god help me! :D

Oh sorry i forgot we was arguing against a mod wannabe. Good luck with the job application :rolleyes:
Oh dear... :roll:

I only use the :loopy: sign when people make me think they are by putting such stupid things! :rant:

Yes but it's a little over the top and seems to be contagious. :loopy: :loopy: :loopy: :loopy: :loopy: :loopy: :loopy:

:hihi:

Hecate? A Mod??

Oh god help me! :D
I think she's thinking of someone else :hihi: .

I think she's thinking of someone else :hihi: .
Im going to apply!

heh heh

I got an old two tone suit and a parka, can I be a mod. :D

Does your son use the forum? I'm suspecting he's too young. If so, it's not really relevant to comment on him.

BTW - Rich, who posts regularly on here, has some form of Autism, I believe, and his grammar, spelling and typing skills are second to none.

Aw, thanks BG! :D

Im going to apply!

heh heh
You would have more chance than her you talk more sense and thats not much :hihi:

You would have more chance than her you talk more sense and thats not much :hihi:
Which post of mine did you not understand? Perhaps I could explain it to you...

Jena, if you'd tried to calmly debate the issue in a reasonable way most people would have (indeed have been) perfectly accommodating of what you're trying to say. But you are making such childish and snide remarks you just come across as defensive and dismissive of other people's right to an opinion that happens to differ from your own. I suggest your problem is less one of a 'learning disability' and more one of immaturity and bad attitude.

Or are you just 'embarrassed'?

Jena, if you'd tried to calmly debate the issue in a reasonable way most people would have (indeed have been) perfectly accommodating of what you're trying to say. But you are making such childish and snide remarks you just come across as defensive and dismissive of other people's right to an opinion that happens to differ from your own. I suggest your problem is less one of a 'learning disability' and more one of immaturity and bad attitude.

Or are you just 'embarrassed'?
Incase you didnt realise this is my thread so i have to argue my point across thats the whole point of it :rolleyes:

Jesus Christ this threads going on a bit.................... anyone fancy a pint. :D

Jesus Christ this threads going on a bit.................... anyone fancy a pint. :D
Stella?
Ill see you at the bar.

There's a fine line between people who can't understand and utilise grammar because of innate learning difficulties and people who don't - having either never bothered to learn the basic rules, or knowing them and still not using them!

It's very difficult to differentiate the two, and I willingly, freely and unabashedly admit that I give a lot more credence to those who are able to use the English language eloquently and correctly.

I actually find it physically painful to read poorly written posts, whether it is a type of synaesthesia or simply an elitist intellectual reaction I will often skim over posts that do not fit into a grammatical framework and when I do read them, find their meaning ill-defined and ambiguous in comparison.

Knowledge is there for the taking and there should be no obstacle save lack of will and effort to learning a more correct and impressive manner of written communication. It would certainly enhance your ability to impress employers, examination markers and anyone else who may be in a position to judge you based on your writing style. There is surely no concievable reason not to improve oneself in this or any area - I will never, ever understand why so many accept and indeed energetically sustain their limitations.

Of course, those with grammar-specific learning difficulties may be physiologically unable to attain the same level of wordsmithery despite being capable of the same level of content; and it is unfortunate that they get caught in the judgemental crossfire of myself and some others in such a medium as this forum.

Incase you didnt realise this is my thread so i have to argue my point across thats the whole point of it :rolleyes:
And does that include accusing others of not talking sense, when they're simply expressing their opinion, just like you?

Come to think of it after 6 pints of Stella my spilling becames a litle bat crup too. hic! :D

Which post of mine did you not understand? Perhaps I could explain it to you...
None of them i would be here all night!

There's a fine line between people who can't understand and utilise grammar because of innate learning difficulties and people who don't - having either never bothered to learn the basic rules, or knowing them and still not using them! ...
^^What he said ;) .

Excellent post, Crayfish.

Well, I have been known to criticise a person's grammar and spelling, but only in certain circumstances.

The people that really annoy me are the people that can't be bothered to try any harder. The people that do try and have difficulties I have every patience with. Text speak in particular annoys me greatly.

It makes it especially annoying for me when these won't-try people start to criticise others for all manner of petty things. Certain people on here of late seem to see spending time on the forum posting incomprehensible rubbish as a suitable alternative to having an actual life.

I agree wholeheartedly with the point Purdyamos made about some people on here:

There are however some people on SF who see being illiterate as a kind of badge of honour. They think that basic competence in communication skills is suspect, and regularly dismiss correct spellers as 'posh' or 'clever'

Some people should consider spending less time on here and more with their children so they don't make the same mistakes.

Hmm, in my opinion you're coming across, whether this is true or not, as someone who cannot be bothered to do things correctly and so is trying to remove the requirement to do things correctly.

Put this much effort into reading a book on grammar - or using a spellchecker as crookes mentioned if you're really after an easy way out - and you'd be there by now.

If you do have a mental disability that not only removes your ability to do grammar, but also means that you are unable to use a spellchecker and makes you bullishly rude I apologise.

Im not saying i dont know how to use them! i had difficult learning them and still dont understand much of it.:rolleyes:

None of them i would be here all night!
None of my posts make sense? Maybe I should keep off the voddies :hihi: .

Come on, Jena76. You raised a good point about those with various learning difficulties and the use of the English language. Now you're systematically destroying any valid points you might have made by having a go at those who're expressing a different view to your own. You're making yourself look foolish too.

Well, I have been known to criticise a person's grammar and spelling, but only in certain circumstances.

The people that really annoy me are the people that can't be bothered to try any harder. The people that do try and have difficulties I have every patience with. Text speak in particular annoys me greatly.

It makes it especially annoying for me when these won't-try people start to criticise others for all manner of petty things. Certain people on here of late seem to see spending time on the forum posting incomprehensible rubbish as a suitable alternative to having an actual life.

I agree wholeheartedly with the point Purdyamos made about some people on here:



Some people should consider spending less time on here and more with their children so they don't make the same mistakes.
Are u talking about me you stupid idiot my kids are at their dads actually :rolleyes:

None of my posts make sense? Maybe I should keep off the voddies :hihi: .

Come on, Jena76. You raised a good point about those with various learning difficulties and the use of the English language. Now you're systematically destroying any valid points you might have made by having a go at those who're expressing a different view to your own. You're making yourself look foolish too.
No im not making myself look stupid at all! you lot are actually if u cant see that its wrong to pull people up on it you are the one with problems

Do you have a diagnosed learning difficulty?

Your point in starting this thread seemed to be that people with specific learning difficulties who are incapable of grammatical comprehension but highly capable in other areas (e.g. the high functioning autism you alluded to earlier) should not be labelled as thick. I agree completely.

I'm not at all 'politically correct' on these topics, and have a personal value-allocation system that doesn't allow for mitigating circumstances. Maybe I should stop talking now really while I'm ahead. Yes, lets go with that.

None of my posts make sense? Maybe I should keep off the voddies :hihi: .

Come on, Jena76. You raised a good point about those with various learning difficulties and the use of the English language. Now you're systematically destroying any valid points you might have made by having a go at those who're expressing a different view to your own. You're making yourself look foolish too.

I don't think its jena making herself look stupid here at all...

Alot of people posting here seem very ignorant, childish know it alls..when really it seems to me you don't know s***

Do you have a diagnosed learning difficulty?

Your point in starting this thread seemed to be that people with specific learning difficulties who are incapable of grammatical comprehension but highly capable in other areas (e.g. the high functioning autism you alluded to earlier) should not be labelled as thick. I agree completely.

I'm not at all 'politically correct' on these topics, and have a personal value-allocation system that doesn't allow for mitigating circumstances. Maybe I should stop talking now really while I'm ahead. Yes, lets go with that.
You have lost me alot of your points i dont understand :confused:

I actually find it physically painful to read poorly written posts, whether it is a type of synaesthesia or simply an elitist intellectual reaction I will often skim over posts that do not fit into a grammatical framework and when I do read them, find their meaning ill-defined and ambiguous in comparison.

Of course, those with grammar-specific learning difficulties may be physiologically unable to attain the same level of wordsmithery despite being capable of the same level of content; and it is unfortunate that they get caught in the judgemental crossfire of myself and some others in such a medium as this forum.

Crikey Crayfish! Your heading for an entry in Pseud's Corner in Private Eye if you carry on using words lke synesthesia! :rolleyes:

{Synesthesia (also spelled synæsthesia or synaesthesia, plural synesthesiae) -- from the Greek syn- meaning union and aesthesis meaning sensation -- is a neurological condition in which two or more bodily senses are coupled.

In a form of synesthesia known as grapheme → color synesthesia, letters or numbers may be perceived as inherently colored, while in ordinal linguistic personification, numbers, days of the week and months of the year evoke personalities. While cross-sensory metaphors are sometimes described as "synesthetic," true neurological synesthesia is involuntary and occurs in slightly more than four percent of the population (1 in 23 persons) across its range of variants (Simner et al. in press). It runs strongly in families, possibly inherited as an X-linked dominant trait. Synesthesia is also sometimes reported by individuals under the influence of psychedelic drugs, after stroke or as a consequence of blindness or deafness. Synesthesia that arises from such non-genetic events is referred to as adventitious synesthesia to distinguish it from the more common congenital forms of synesthesia.}

:wow: I didn't know that!

You have lost me alot of your points i dont understand :confused:

This may be something to do with your level of intelligence dear.

No im not making myself look stupid at all! you lot are actually if u cant see that its wrong to pull people up on it you are the one with problems

I think it's perfectly alright to pull people up on it, you're incredibly hard to read and understand and frankly it hurts to read your posts - thinking about it, I've always experienced this phenomenon... does anyone else experience a quasi-physical pain from running into bad grammar/spelling?

Don't tell me you now have a disability that makes you unable to distinguish between 'u' and 'you'. Calling someone stupid who from the evidence (in this case all we can see of each other is the quality and content of written posts) is vastly more intelligent* than yourself is also a little silly.

*intelligence here defined as a product of innate potential and education level. This is how I tend to discuss and think of intelligence. Potential intelligence as mediated by physiology is a different matter.

This may be something to do with your level of intelligence dear.
well helllllllllo! i think i have said that all along i dont understand alot of things hence this thread!

God why don't you people grow up...

suprised this thread hasn't been closed...Oh sorry I forgot..its not a brown nose being bullied is it..:rolleyes:

...A lot of people posting here seem very ignorant, childish know it alls..when really it seems to me you don't know s***
Thank you for so aptly demonstrating Purdyamos's point:
...They think that basic competence in communication skills is suspect, and regularly dismiss correct spellers as 'posh' or 'clever', which is the worst crime in their narrow world. ...

As a matter of fact im cleverer than u think! yes i am autistic but would give any of u a run for your money in maths so i hope you are proud of yourselves you set of idiots!:rant:

*intelligence here defined as a product of innate potential and education level. This is how I tend to discuss and think of intelligence. Potential intelligence as mediated by physiology is a different matter.

I'm definitely entering you for Pseud's Corner! :)

Im about as far from posh or clever that its possible to get and I like to think that my English is relatively good.
Id hope that if I made a spelling error Id be corrected, and I often am.
I know its only a forum but its still a way to advance your typing/writing skills.
As long as it doesnt give people headaches trying to work out what others are typing though, I dont see a problem with it.

As a matter of fact im cleverer than u think! yes i am autistic but would give any of u a run for your money in maths so i hope you are proud of yourselves you set of idiots!:rant:

Well maybe the finishing school you attended had a maths masterclass? :huh:

By the way, I thought you weren't going into details of your disability?

This thread has gone rather odd now.

I have to say that when people resort to name calling and insults I tend to assume that they've 'lost' the point/argument.

Fuggin ell, stil goin on wi this thred, hic! av ad 5 punts er steller thawt ited a bin funishd bi nar. chil art wil yuz av liccle drinc. a luv yooz,..... a do yar mi bestests maytes. or wel neer mined. fug it am gunner bed. hic! :D

I'm definitely entering you for Pseud's Corner! :)
Im entering them for boring the ass off everyone with gibberish :rolleyes:

I have to say that when people resort to name calling and insults I tend to assume that they've 'lost' the point/argument.

She lost it a long time ago.

OK folks - can we please just chill out now?

If you can't debate these things without personal abuse then I'll close this thread.

Thank you.

Well maybe the finishing school you attended had a maths masterclass? :huh:

By the way, I thought you weren't going into details of your disability?

Oh for gods sake....you childish idiot!!!

No need for that at all....

Well maybe the finishing school you attended had a maths masterclass? :huh:

By the way, I thought you weren't going into details of your disability?
:rolleyes: What a fool! u must be really clever with your job being a forum mod :hihi:

Oh for gods sake....you childish idiot!!!

OK...last warning for the thread.

From here on in, I'll start removing posts and posters.

Thanks.

OK folks - can we please just chill out now?

If you can't debate these things without personal abuse then I'll close this thread.

Thank you.
i think you should have words with kristian aswell aka mr perfect :rolleyes:

Incase you didnt realise this is my thread so i have to argue my point across thats the whole point of it :rolleyes:

There's a difference between calmly and rationally debating your point and making feeble bitchy retorts at people. That behaviour doesn't come under any 'learning disability' that I'm aware of. If you felt so proprietal about 'your' thread, you should have been prepared to deal with any disagreements in a reasonable and civilised manner.

If your wish was to defend your putative un-named 'condition', I'm afraid you've not made a very good impression to the people you apparently wanted to understand your problem.

well helllllllllo! i think i have said that all along i dont understand alot of things hence this thread!

Yes, and yet you are trying to demonstrate here are you not that your worth as a person exceeds your understanding of language?

i know this thread makes me sound thick but im not actually im very good at other things.

We haven't seen any proof of this. Everyone has a little internal meter that rates other people, this may be on different criteria but it's there in all of us. So far I don't think you've ticked boxes for those of us who rate on ability or on attitude.

That was indeed a great point purdyamos. Since when did 'Clever' become an undesirable trait? I am a great believer in the fact that most people have the ability to learn pretty much what they want to. If they don't learn, it's because they don't want to.

Im not saying i dont know how to use them! i had difficult learning them and still dont understand much of it.

I have found many things in life difficult to learn. Difference is, I've kept going until I've learnt them. You can learn absolutely anything, it just takes a bit of persistence. Also necessary is to attempt to put what you learn into practice. I'm sure that you know more rules than you use. Why? Is it because you don't want to be labelled as clever? I'd rather be labelled as that than as stupid myself.

Yes, and yet you are trying to demonstrate here are you not that your worth as a person exceeds your understanding of language?



We haven't seen any proof of this. Everyone has a little internal meter that rates other people, this may be on different criteria but it's there in all of us. So far I don't think you've ticked boxes for those of us who rate on ability or on attitude.

That was indeed a great point purdyamos. Since when did 'Clever' become an undesirable trait? I am a great believer in the fact that most people have the ability to learn pretty much what they want to. If they don't learn, it's because they don't want to.



I have found many things in life difficult to learn. Difference is, I've kept going until I've learnt them. You can learn absolutely anything, it just takes a bit of persistence, and attempting to put into practice what you learn. I'm sure that you know more rules than you use. Why? Is it because you don't want to be labelled as clever? I'd rather be labelled as that than as stupid myself.
omg! some people cannot learn anything they want to! what a sheltered life u must lead :rolleyes:

Yes, and yet you are trying to demonstrate here are you not that your worth as a person exceeds your understanding of language?



We haven't seen any proof of this. Everyone has a little internal meter that rates other people, this may be on different criteria but it's there in all of us. So far I don't think you've ticked boxes for those of us who rate on ability or on attitude.

That was indeed a great point purdyamos. Since when did 'Clever' become an undesirable trait? I am a great believer in the fact that most people have the ability to learn pretty much what they want to. If they don't learn, it's because they don't want to.



I have found many things in life difficult to learn. Difference is, I've kept going until I've learnt them. You can learn absolutely anything, it just takes a bit of persistence. Also necessary is to attempt to put what you learn into practice. I'm sure that you know more rules than you use. Why? Is it because you don't want to be labelled as clever? I'd rather be labelled as that than as stupid myself.

Do you know about autism?

i think you should have words with kristian aswell aka mr perfect :rolleyes:

Don't push your luck, and don't get smart with me Jena. I'm asking EVERYONE to behave on this thread.

I don't think shes getting smart with you joe..really.

Don't push your luck, and don't get smart with me Jena. I'm asking EVERYONE to behave on this thread.
well the main cause of the thread was started by kristian and he feels the need to tell me how to bring my kids up aswell! who does he think he is ?

omg! some people cannot learn anything they want to! what a sheltered life u must lead

Incorrect. Anyone can learn rules and routines (save the severely mentally disabled, but your statement 'im very good at other things' seems to preclude this possibility).

For instance. One basic grammatical rule is that a full stop or exclamation mark is followed by a capital letter. So, the above quote should read 'omg! Some' at the beginning. There, now you know it, you've learnt it, you can remember and use it. Not hard.

Also, you is spelt with three letters. Y O U. Not one. Now you know two things.

Thirdly, sentences end with a full stop.

Okay, so now we're left with 'omg! Some people cannot learn anything they want to! What a sheltered life you must lead.'

Not sure about the omg, but the rest looks 1000% better.

There is no way that you can tell me you can't remember and apply those rules. It might take some thinking about at first, and maybe you won't be able to achieve the instinctive 'it just looks right/wrong' grasp that those without learning disabilities can, but by carefully reading your posts and putting maybe 10 seconds more effort in, you'll come across as incredibly much more intelligent. If you have a learning disability at all, this is something that has never been clarified.

I'm not under any illusions this is the first time you've been informed of these basic rules, nor do I believe you'll take this in and use it in the future. So what we're left with is someone who simply refuses to put the effort in and quite rightfully reaps the rewards of being judged on the results.

Argue, whine and curse all you want, the only way you're going to change anyone's mind is by looking to and improving yourself. No one's born with the ability to write grammatically.

well the main cause of the thread was started by kristian and he feels the need to tell me how to bring my kids up aswell! who does he think he is ?

Jena. Let this go, please. If you have a problem, contact the Helpdesk. If you decide to take things in to your own hands and get in to name calling then I'll deal with it accordingly.

well the main cause of the thread was started by kristian and he feels the need to tell me how to bring my kids up aswell! who does he think he is ?

Where was this exactly? I must have missed that post.

Incorrect. Anyone can learn rules and routines (save the severely mentally disabled, but your statement 'im very good at other things' seems to preclude this possibility).

For instance. One basic grammatical rule is that a full stop or exclamation mark is followed by a capital letter. So, the above quote should read 'omg! Some' at the beginning. There, now you know it, you've learnt it, you can remember and use it. Not hard.

Also, you is spelt with three letters. Y O U. Not one. Now you know two things.

Thirdly, sentences end with a full stop.

Okay, so now we're left with 'omg! Some people cannot learn anything they want to! What a sheltered life you must lead.'

Not sure about the omg, but the rest looks 1000% better.

There is no way that you can tell me you can't remember and apply those rules. It might take some thinking about at first, and maybe you won't be able to achieve the instinctive 'it just looks right/wrong' grasp that those without learning disabilities can, but by carefully reading your posts and putting maybe 10 seconds more effort in, you'll come across as incredibly much more intelligent. If you have a learning disability at all, this is something that has never been clarified.
:confused:

Where was this exactly? I must have missed that post.

Meaks, again, let it go, please.

Where was this exactly? I must have missed that post.
Before i put the post up obviously!

Incorrect. Anyone can learn rules and routines (save the severely mentally disabled, but your statement 'im very good at other things' seems to preclude this possibility).


:hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

Apart from having two sides bitching at each other with retorts varying between childish and pretentious, can any of you actually remember if you have or ever had a point?

Apart from having two sides bitching at each other with retorts varying between childish and pretentious, can any of you actually remember if you have or ever had a point?


yeah av ad 6 points nar an its bewdiful hic! :hihi:

Apart from having two sides bitching at each other with retorts varying between childish and pretentious, can any of you actually remember if you have or ever had a point?

I had lots of point. The pretentiousness was incidental ;)

Apart from having two sides bitching at each other with retorts varying between childish and pretentious, can any of you actually remember if you have or ever had a point?
You'll probably find it helpful to go and read the earlier posts.

Incorrect. Anyone can learn rules and routines (save the severely mentally disabled, but your statement 'im very good at other things' seems to preclude this possibility).

For instance. One basic grammatical rule is that a full stop or exclamation mark is followed by a capital letter. So, the above quote should read 'omg! Some' at the beginning. There, now you know it, you've learnt it, you can remember and use it. Not hard.

Also, you is spelt with three letters. Y O U. Not one. Now you know two things.

Thirdly, sentences end with a full stop.

Okay, so now we're left with 'omg! Some people cannot learn anything they want to! What a sheltered life you must lead.'

Not sure about the omg, but the rest looks 1000% better.

There is no way that you can tell me you can't remember and apply those rules. It might take some thinking about at first, and maybe you won't be able to achieve the instinctive 'it just looks right/wrong' grasp that those without learning disabilities can, but by carefully reading your posts and putting maybe 10 seconds more effort in, you'll come across as incredibly much more intelligent. If you have a learning disability at all, this is something that has never been clarified.

I'm not under any illusions this is the first time you've been informed of these basic rules, nor do I believe you'll take this in and use it in the future. So what we're left with is someone who simply refuses to put the effort in and quite rightfully reaps the rewards of being judged on the results.

Argue, whine and curse all you want, the only way you're going to change anyone's mind is by looking to and improving yourself. No one's born with the ability to write grammatically.

Well don't you just feel better after that? You must be very proud....

I've read every post Hecate. It got sidetracked about 3 pages ago and descended into tit for tat fighting.

im bored of u lot now u r totally wrong on most things ( as usual) and to be honest should all be ashamed of yourselves!:rant:

OK...that's one short ban applied.

Any more?

I've read every post Hecate. It got sidetracked about 3 pages ago and descended into tit for tat fighting.
Indeed it did. But you wondered if anyone ever had a point. I think you'll find at least some of them in the first few pages.

im bored of u lot now u r totally wrong on most things ( as usual) and to be honest should all be ashamed of yourselves!:rant:

Why am I 'totally wrong'? I genuinely would like to know. Why should I be ashamed of myself? That is a real, genuine question. Please explain (properly, not with insults.) :confused:

Indeed it did. But you wondered if anyone ever had a point. I think you'll find at least some of them in the first few pages.

okay, you caught me engaging in a little bit of hyperbole. :hihi: I think that most people had a point originally, they just lost the focus on them a while back.

Incorrect. Anyone can learn rules and routines (save the severely mentally disabled, but your statement 'im very good at other things' seems to preclude this possibility).

For instance. One basic grammatical rule is that a full stop or exclamation mark is followed by a capital letter. So, the above quote should read 'omg! Some' at the beginning. There, now you know it, you've learnt it, you can remember and use it. Not hard.

Also, you is spelt with three letters. Y O U. Not one. Now you know two things.

Thirdly, sentences end with a full stop.

Okay, so now we're left with 'omg! Some people cannot learn anything they want to! What a sheltered life you must lead.'

Not sure about the omg, but the rest looks 1000% better.

There is no way that you can tell me you can't remember and apply those rules. It might take some thinking about at first, and maybe you won't be able to achieve the instinctive 'it just looks right/wrong' grasp that those without learning disabilities can, but by carefully reading your posts and putting maybe 10 seconds more effort in, you'll come across as incredibly much more intelligent. If you have a learning disability at all, this is something that has never been clarified.

I'm not under any illusions this is the first time you've been informed of these basic rules, nor do I believe you'll take this in and use it in the future. So what we're left with is someone who simply refuses to put the effort in and quite rightfully reaps the rewards of being judged on the results.

Argue, whine and curse all you want, the only way you're going to change anyone's mind is by looking to and improving yourself. No one's born with the ability to write grammatically.

I really don't want to get involved in this 'discussion', but I feel I have to point out, Crayfish, that you are obviously a highly intelligent person who is gifted in the academic arena - but not everyone is so fortunate.

You may be able to learn anything you choose to with a bit of effort, but not everyone is like you. People have talents in different areas - not everyone finds 'book-learning' easy. I believe true dyslexia literally does involve 'word blindness', where the reader/writer cannot make out the words correctly. As far as I understand, it is some sort of sensory problem, not a refusal to learn.

So I think your attitude does come over as needlessly condescending. People may have problems or difficulties in their lives which you have no concept of.

StarSparkle

okay, you caught me engaging in a little bit of hyperbole. :hihi:
You missed a capital letter too, Cyclone ;) .

I really don't want to get involved in this 'discussion', but I feel I have to point out, Crayfish, that you are obviously a highly intelligent person who is gifted in the academic arena - but not everyone is so fortunate.

You may be able to learn anything you choose to with a bit of effort, but not everyone is like you. People have talents in different areas - not everyone finds 'book-learning' easy. I believe true dyslexia literally does involve 'word blindness', where the reader/writer cannot make out the words correctly. As far as I understand, it is some sort of sensory problem, not a refusal to learn.

So I think your attitude does come over as needlessly condescending. People may have problems or difficulties in their lives which you have no concept of.

StarSparkle

I totally agree StarSparkle, I really wanted to say something but couldn't think of the right words. Condescending is the right word...

Well seen as you have banned jena for this..don't you think it should be removed and maybe returned when she is back...

Well seen as you have banned jena for this..don't you think it should be removed and maybe returned when she is back...

I'll be jena's speaker :) I love a good fight

Well seen as you have banned jena for this..don't you think it should be removed and maybe returned when she is back...

Janny - she was warned 4 times. She chose to carry on and tehrefore she is now experiencing the consequences of that choice. I'm not discussing it further now. If you ahve a request to make, put it to the Helpdesk.

I really don't want to get involved in this 'discussion', but I feel I have to point out, Crayfish, that you are obviously a highly intelligent person who is gifted in the academic arena - but not everyone is so fortunate.

You may be able to learn anything you choose to with a bit of effort, but not everyone is like you. People have talents in different areas - not everyone finds 'book-learning' easy. I believe true dyslexia literally does involve 'word blindness', where the reader/writer cannot make out the words correctly. As far as I understand, it is some sort of sensory problem, not a refusal to learn.

So I think your attitude does come over as needlessly condescending. People may have problems or difficulties in their lives which you have no concept of.

StarSparkle

Fair enough. It's those who won't put that 'bit of effort' in that I take issue with. I admit that I learn many things quickly, but there are also other concepts that I have to spend a lot of time on - and I do this. I don't really believe that there is such a massive gap between ordinary individuals in intrinsic ability. So much of it comes down to effort.

I have dyslexic friends and agree, this is a condition that makes it very difficult to write grammatically or spell correctly. But just as a blind person might use a white stick to feel their way, a dyslexic person can use a spellchecker in this day and age. They can also consciously learn the rules even if the instinct is absent.

Apart from all that, as I did briefly mention my value-allocation system doesn't allow for mitigating circumstances but rather relies on absolutes.

I was quite deliberately condescending, as she was being rude.

You missed a capital letter too, Cyclone ;) .

I blame laziness rather than anything more complicated.

Fair enough. It's those who won't put that 'bit of effort' in that I take issue with. I admit that I learn many things quickly, but there are also other concepts that I have to spend a lot of time on - and I do this. I don't really believe that there is such a massive gap between ordinary individuals in intrinsic ability. So much of it comes down to effort.

I have dyslexic friends and agree, this is a condition that makes it very difficult to write grammatically or spell correctly. But just as a blind person might use a white stick to feel their way, a dyslexic person can use a spellchecker in this day and age. They can also consciously learn the rules even if the instinct is absent.

Apart from all that, personally as I did briefly mention my value-allocation system doesn't allow for mitigating circumstances but rather relies on absolutes.

I was quite deliberately condescending, as she was being rude.

I hear what you're saying, Crayfish, and thank you for responding in a reasonable manner.

The only thing I would follow up with is to say to you that in the 'real world' and when you're talking about 'real people', you cannot realistically work in absolutes. That is fine and dandy for academia, but the real world is a messy place, where ultimately very little indeed, if anything at all, is purely black or white. A more flexible attitude is required when living life rather than studying it.

StarSparkle

yeah av ad 6 points nar an its bewdiful hic! :hihi:

I'm just hoping that FYTC isn't doing any serious tiling tomorrow :D

Look! For gods sake! If you have probs with English Grammer then do what I do!

Use this!

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i159/Doppler1/scarymonkey.jpg

Incidentally and slightly off topic, the reason why I don't believe there is a huge difference between individuals is that there is an immense amount of adaptability in terms of cognitive function: humans as a species truly do rise to the challenges faced in their environment.

Just as a weight lifter by applying stress to his muscles improves their size and function, intellectual challenges are met by corresponding improvements in the brain. The only way to get better at something is to keep trying to do it with a positive attitude.

This is why for instance a linguist might find it much easier to learn another new language than someone starting from scratch - not only can they cross-reference it to similarities in other languages and general rules of language, but they are physiologically adapted to processing language.

The same goes for a musician - when I started playing guitar it took me a few years just to develop the feeling for rhythm and pitch. This is something that I still need to improve, but also something that I can feel improving as time goes on. It's not altogether based in the codified rules of theory that are consciously learnt, there is something much deeper and more instinctive developing - this is why people completely unversed in theory can often be exceptional musicians, even if they can't explain what they are doing they are still sometimes able to do it. But these senses wouldn't develop if you didn't try to develop them, and keep trying - possibly for years.

This phenomenon is termed brain plasticity for anyone interested in finding out more about it. The relevance to the thread is that once someone stops trying and accepts what they have, doesn't challenge themselves, takes the attitude that they are and will always be unable to do something, there's no pressure for the brain to adapt and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I'm just hoping that FYTC isn't doing any serious tiling tomorrow :D

ssssssssssssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh . :thumbsup:

ssssssssssssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh . :thumbsup:

Is that the sound of another beer being opened? :hihi:

A feel sick...................:gag:

A feel sick...................:gag:

*rushes about screaming and fetching buckets*

don't dare be sick on this thread ... there's no-one to clean it up now!

:help:

Seize fred and leaves

But no effin spellchecker.

Spell-checks are useless if you can’t spell. How do you know whether a word is right or wrong? Word has the best, but even then I can give you sentences in English that it cannot understand — let alone spell-check.

Spell-checks are useless if you can’t spell. How do you know whether a word is right or wrong? Word has the best, but even then I can give you sentences in English that it cannot understand — let alone spell-check.

Yes if you do have problems with spelling, then spell checkers will just give you a list of possible words for the misspelled word.

If you do want to use one then try ieSpell (http://www.iespell.com/) for use in IE. The google tool-bar has a spell checker for Firefox.

Jena, if you'd tried to calmly debate the issue in a reasonable way most people would have (indeed have been) perfectly accommodating of what you're trying to say. But you are making such childish and snide remarks you just come across as defensive and dismissive of other people's right to an opinion that happens to differ from your own. I suggest your problem is less one of a 'learning disability' and more one of immaturity and bad attitude.

Someone didn't take notice of this excellent post from purdyamos did they?......

OK...that's one short ban applied.

BoroughGal ,
Thanks for your help and advice . I really do appreciate it . My knowledge about computers and related subjects is almost zero .
I'm sure it wasn't the ' tab ' button that was causing the problem but , apart from my own normal mistakes , the problem is probably that I don't press some of the keys hard enough .
Having said that , I am using a Chinese computer ! Inscrutable , at times !
Anyway , I'll see how the spacing works this time . Thanks again .

No problem! Hope you sort it. x

There's a difference between calmly and rationally debating your point and making feeble bitchy retorts at people. That behaviour doesn't come under any 'learning disability' that I'm aware of.

Have you heard or read about Autism? People with autism have learning difficulties..all are different..They don't understand things like we do..they can be very bad tempered..they don't socialise well..some can't even talk properly when they are older..theres more to it too..

I can see why jena got so upset and angry yesterday..I have read back to when it all started..

Its painful for her to hear people won't read posts and find it painful to read when people have difficultys and can't do grammer/spelling properly..not just because of her but because of her son too..

Its also annoying to hear people assumeing they can't be bothered to learn spelling etc..when really they don't know..some people (I know this in a few people) don't like to admit the problems they have because they are embaressed about it..

[QUOTE=janny]Have you heard or read about Autism? People with autism have learning difficulties..all are different..They don't understand things like we do..they can be very bad tempered..they don't socialise well..some can't even talk properly when they are older..theres more to it too..

QUOTE]


But Jena refused to explain any of that to any of us. I myself have a serious condition that sporadically affects my moods and behaviour, but I'm open and transparent about it. I take responsibility for it. When I have an attack I explain and apologise for it. Jena continued to insult people and never tried to explain that it was part of her condition.

[QUOTE=janny]Have you heard or read about Autism? People with autism have learning difficulties..all are different..They don't understand things like we do..they can be very bad tempered..they don't socialise well..some can't even talk properly when they are older..theres more to it too..

QUOTE]


But Jena refused to explain any of that to any of us. I myself have a serious condition that sporadically affects my moods and behaviour, but I'm open and transparent about it. I take responsibility for it. When I have an attack I explain and apologise for it. Jena continued to insult people and never tried to explain that it was part of her condition.

She didn't like to say at first..all she wanted to say is people have difficulties which affect thier spelling and its not nice to pick on them about it..

The begining of the thread was fine..she wasn't bad tempered at all..

she did say a little earlier on in the thread she has autism but people still kept saying things they shouldn't have..

Like I said before people with dissabilities don't like to hear the ignorance of some people...If I was to read a post which had grammer and spelling mistakes I would know the person has a problem..I would still take a little of my time to read it. I don't understand people what wouldn't do this..they can't be very nice people..thats all I can think.

...Its painful for her to hear people won't read posts and find it painful to read when people have difficultys and can't do grammer/spelling properly..not just because of her but because of her son too..
If someone admits to a disability, such as dyslexia, which affects their spelling and punctuation, then of course allowances will be made for their errors. The comments made yesterday about some people simply not caring whether their use of written English is correct was not aimed specifically at Jenna76; it referred to a discussion which took place several months ago in which such admissions were made.

If a forumer is rude and aggressive to others in the absence of any obvious explanation, extenuating circumstances or apology, then they tend to be treated accordingly.

If someone admits to a disability, such as dyslexia, which affects their spelling and punctuation, then of course allowances will be made for their errors. The comments made yesterday about some people simply not caring whether their use of written English is correct was not aimed specifically at Jenna76; it referred to a discussion which took place several months ago in which such admissions were made.

If a forumer is rude and agressive to others in the absence of any obvious explanation, extenuating circumstances or apology, then they tend to be treated accordingly.

No I know not all of it was aimed at jena..her not understanding and not being able to socialise might have made her think this :confused: who knows only her..

It just wasn't nice to hear people won't take a little extra time to try and read posts (not just hers) of someones which obviously has a problem..It's like being ignored isn't it..which isn't very nice.

She didn't like to say at first..all she wanted to say is people have difficulties which affect thier spelling and its not nice to pick on them about it..

The begining of the thread was fine..she wasn't bad tempered at all..

she did say a little earlier on in the thread she has autism but people still kept saying things they shouldn't have..

Like I said before people with dissabilities don't like to hear the ignorance of some people...If I was to read a post which had grammer and spelling mistakes I would know the person has a problem..I would still take a little of my time to read it. I don't understand people what wouldn't do this..they can't be very nice people..thats all I can think.

I started to lose any sympathy as soon as she started putting :loopy: and :rant: at the end of all her posts.

Aw, thanks BG! :D


NP Rich, it's true. Just out of interest, do you have any comment on this thread? How do you cope? :)

I hope the people who wanted to wind Jena up and humiliate her are very proud of themselves.

I hope the people who wanted to wind Jena up and humiliate her are very proud of themselves.
I was going to wind them up but they threatened to feed me to their dog.

All those bones on show, I can see how that threat works on you

If someone admits to a disability, such as dyslexia, which affects their spelling and punctuation, then of course allowances will be made for their errors. The comments made yesterday about some people simply not caring whether their use of written English is correct was not aimed specifically at Jenna76; it referred to a discussion which took place several months ago in which such admissions were made.

If a forumer is rude and aggressive to others in the absence of any obvious explanation, extenuating circumstances or apology, then they tend to be treated accordingly.

I have to say I agree quite strongly with Janny here.

What I read of this thread last night did disturb me a bit - I thought people were ganging up quite badly on Jena and giving her an unnecessarily hard time. Yes, I know she was less than polite in some of her replies, but I bet she was feeling very on the defensive, with a fair amount of hostility being shown towards her.

Autism does seem to be a particularly badly-understood condition by the general public, and I've noticed its sufferers often do receive less-than-sympathetic hearings. This is partly what I meant in my posting when I said to Crayfish that not everybody learns in the same way, and that not everyone can learn anything, if only they just put enough effort into it. If the required neurological programming isn't there, it's the devil's own job to learn certain things.

Sometimes on this Forum a little thoughtfulness about the frailties of others might be nice before laying into them.

StarSparkle

Erm.... (http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i159/Doppler1/8526.jpg) What can i say?

Spell-checks are useless if you can’t spell. How do you know whether a word is right or wrong? Word has the best, but even then I can give you sentences in English that it cannot understand — let alone spell-check.

I think saxon was cracking a joke....perhaps a little to subtle:D
There are definitely no Fs in spellchecker:gag:

kookymonster
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 239
Status: Offline

*Ahem* Its grammar, not grammer.


im not editing it i cant be bothered:hihi:

That should have finished the thread before it got this far

kookymonster
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 239
Status: Offline

*Ahem* Its grammar, not grammer.

Originally Posted by jena76
im not editing it i cant be bothered


That should have finished the thread before it got this far



Think that says it all ladies and gents.

Think that says it all ladies and gents.

Thats just silly...

She couldn't be bothered to edit the post is what she meant..not to look at the correct spelling..:huh:

So now its back to not being bothered to learn..I know myself she has tried to learn alot and she has learnt alot but not everything..which isn't her fault.

I have to say I agree quite strongly with Janny here.

What I read of this thread last night did disturb me a bit - I thought people were ganging up quite badly on Jena and giving her an unnecessarily hard time. Yes, I know she was less than polite in some of her replies, but I bet she was feeling very on the defensive, with a fair amount of hostility being shown towards her.

Autism does seem to be a particularly badly-understood condition by the general public, and I've noticed its sufferers often do receive less-than-sympathetic hearings. This is partly what I meant in my posting when I said to Crayfish that not everybody learns in the same way, and that not everyone can learn anything, if only they just put enough effort into it. If the required neurological programming isn't there, it's the devil's own job to learn certain things.

Sometimes on this Forum a little thoughtfulness about the frailties of others might be nice before laying into them.

StarSparkle

Thank you starsparkle ;)

Thank you starsparkle ;)
If you are from Sheffield more often than not,you do not hear English spoken,as we are lazy in speech we miss out words, my excuse for not being as good at English,is that when I was growing up (my formative years) I did not hear much English, if you do not hear it often you are often in sppeech or written not grammatically correct,so why worry, we are lazy about using dictionaries,one or two anoraks can get upset but why be concerned.

NP Rich, it's true. Just out of interest, do you have any comment on this thread? How do you cope? :)

I just had very good English teachers at School that's all, including one that was a Scouser but let's not hold that against the poor bloke :D

And although I know I shouldn't, because my own spelling and grammar is done to such perfection, I can't help but pick up on other people's dodgy spelling, I play hell with my Dad all the time about his, and he's always writing reports for his work and stuff.

We should be concerned because language is a structure which enables us to accurately express our opinions, thoughts and beliefs. It is at the core of communication, whether written or oral. If that structure breaks down because people can't be bothered to learn the rules then the scope for misunderstandings is much greater _ and misunderstanding or misinterpretation is at the root of so much trouble in the world (on the personal and public level).

I just had very good English teachers at School that's all, including one that was a Scouser but let's not hold that against the poor bloke :D

Just tell me to shut up, Rich, if you want, but in relation to this thread, I'm genuinely interested in your opinions on what's been said about autism = spelling & grammar? :)

I won't answer for Rich but in my experience of the autistic spectrum I've found that the people I have contact with are much better at it than me. As Rich has pointed out with his father, I would gladly let my texts' be checked by someone like Rich.


I suppose it comes down to having a great eye for detail.

I know myself she has tried to learn alot and she has learnt alot but not everything..which isn't her fault.

Could you just clarify that her decision to throw numerous explicit personal insults and use these :loopy: :loopy: :rant: :rant: is:

1 - a symptom of her autism, incurable and ingrained in the way her brain is wired, or

2 - something that she has 'tried to learn a lot but not everything which isn't her fault' or

3 - a personality flaw (we all have them) that she's *not editing because she can't be bothered?*

I'm really not trying to be snide or 'clever' here. I would like a genuine answer. This thread did not break down due to pedantry over English. Being nasty in the way Jena was did not come across as symptomatic of something. She should not be surprised at how people reacted, and neither should you.

Incidentally, years ago I was involved in the making of a film at an autistic 'village' in Northumberland. We were told and shown a great deal about autistic people, many very severely afflicted. At no point did personal insults crop up as a typical symptom.

I suppose we should drop it really, but I feel that the above point has not really been answered.

If you read my previous post I did explain why she reacted the way she did..I don't blame her..

She had alsorts thrown and thats her way of reacting..(everyone is different)

People have been nasty about it in a clever way and when the person reacts they're the bad one..

The personal insults bit..thats not a symtom..obviously. Its just that she is very bad tempered which can be worse with some autistic people..

She was insulted so why can't she insult people?..:confused:

Edit..if that was me last night..I would have been bad tempered too from some of the stuff what was said..

Can someone quote the post where Jena says SHE is autistic please? I know she said her son is, and I remember her saying something about the way she gets used to talking in basic words and phrases to him and that she sometimes gets pulled up on the forum when she forgets and types as she's been talking at home, however, is Jena herself autistic?

Jena will be back tomorrow.

For now I suggest we just leave the conjecture alone.

Whatever the condition, we still expect people to behave in a reasonable civil manner.

I have just seen this thread and believe i should express my opinion in a none-abusive manner:
I think its wrong to call people up on something when in reality we all do it wheather we want to admit or not. We all have our reasons as to why we have problems with grammar, spelling ect. So shouldn't it be upto the person to correct it, not other people.
I just think that if someone misses a word out, misses a commor, has problems with grammar, spelling whatever, then just leave them to it! leave them alone. We are all allowed to post on this forum so it doesn't matter really how we type as long as we can make sense of it all(i realise that point was made already, but i wanted to make it again so it would stand out)

How's Kermit?

Ok thank you.

In keeping with the spirit of this thread:

Seize fred and leaves

Sieze Fred and leaves (capitalisation of a pronoun).:D

If you read my previous post I did explain why she reacted the way she did..I don't blame her..

She had alsorts thrown and thats her way of reacting..(everyone is different)

People have been nasty about it in a clever way and when the person reacts they're the bad one..

The personal insults bit..thats not a symtom..obviously. Its just that she is very bad tempered which can be worse with some autistic people..

She was insulted so why can't she insult people?..:confused:

Edit..if that was me last night..I would have been bad tempered too from some of the stuff what was said..

From what I understand, being autistic can be INCREDIBLY frustrating, and I'm sure this can lead to what appears to be bad-temper being displayed.

Reading this thread, I could FEEL Jena's frustration - she was being quite badly provoked by some people on here - and I'm sure that was behind her outbursts.

That was one of the reasons I finally decided to post last night - no-one seemed to be making any serious effort to understand where Jena was coming from, and the ganging-up was looking distastefully like bullying, especially once she had mentioned about autism.

StarSparkle

I have only ever seen a handful of posts on here that cannot be understood because of poor spelling or bad grammar.
In most cases I think it says as much about the reader as it does the writer if he/she fails to understand most of the posts.
If however you take a look at the people on here who make that little bit of effort to belittle a poster with bad spelling or grammar I think you will find 99% of them are full blown massive arrogant t*ts who are obviously capitalising from the anonymity and protection the net offers.
In the real world these people are almost always nobodies who use the forums to flex muscles they dont really have.
I can think of much stronger names for these people other than pedantic.

To the people what dont know about autism and the people who feel the need to put people down about spelling etc..read this and you might learn something..

http://www.nas.org.uk/nas/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=650&a=10321

I think a few of you should be ashamed of yourselves..you and we know who you are..

Thanks to all the nice and understanding messages :)

I read this whole thread, and I find myself agreeing to some points, but also disagreeing to others, as I think back to my own experiences on such issues.

I just like to quote this:

We should be concerned because language is a structure which enables us to accurately express our opinions, thoughts and beliefs. It is at the core of communication, whether written or oral. If that structure breaks down because people can't be bothered to learn the rules then the scope for misunderstandings is much greater _ and misunderstanding or misinterpretation is at the root of so much trouble in the world (on the personal and public level).

The world is made up of many different types of people from different backgrounds, and diversity. Yes, having the same language and level of grammar may be ideally BE a good thing, but we live in an imperfect world. It's also a REALISTIC world. Why should anybody expect the same standard of English from everyone when the subject itself is taught differently throughout the UK anyway ? Even articles in newspapers have grammatical errors, so why should we expect more from people ?

I get the impression that this thread wasn't started for an open debate, but a personal issue for Jena. What I really find rude and can't stand is why must anybody with any learning difficulties have to 'own up' to it in front of anybody ? I find this idea a little bit off. From what I understand, and have understood of this whole thread, the OP seems to be a proud person, and yet others comment which may not meant to come across as a personal attack, but references other threads or discussions elsewhere IS coming across as such attacks.

The irony of this thread is that, one must write in perfect English, but we seemed to have fallen on the wayside on the topic of 'context'.

A personal subject that someone wish for others to emphasize on is NEVER a good point for others to debate openly, cos people would definitely get hurt on an emotional level.

I don't know how other SF members feel, but I do take the SF with a pinch of salt. Not everyone will express the same feelings across in the same way. Everybody is different. If people accept this, then we won't even fight so much !

Saying that, I don't think I'm perfect either, cos I recall pulling a young girl up on her grammar, but then again, I too do dislike the young generation who don't make much of an effort like when I was young. I too had been pulled up on it when I was young, but I've come to accept this. I know that whether it's the academia, or the professional world, a certain style of writing is almost expected of you. As to whether people accept this on a personal level or not, is another matter.

If I was a boss of a company, I would expect perfect grammar every time from my employees, as it represents my company. However, on the SF, I see it as a social thing, and people should be allowed for their own style and expression. I personally find this rude to be telling others off for how they express themselves !

Just as a general point [ and NOTHING to do with anyone's ability or otherwise on this particular thread ] I think that there is an unfortunate tendency , in this country , at the moment ,to " let things go " or dumb things down " , generally . One cn see this in all sorts of areas ------from examination standards , to T.V History programmes , children's books ......etc.....
The idea is that we should make things " relevant " to people's lives i.e.they should only be concerned about what is familiar to them or they'll be lost .
I'm sure this is wrong , particularly in education . What's wrong with stretching people ? Giving them the chance to imagine other lives and worlds ? Encouraging them to take on difficult tasks instead of making everything easy and cosy ?
This is how progress is made and , because we have adopted the " child -centred " educational system for the past 20 or 30 years , universities are now having to give basic lessons in English and Maths to Freshers .
I know that communicating in English is not an exact science like mathematics but accurate English is important , especially as it's being used world-wide , more and more .If we were all as slipshod with Maths as we are becoming careless in English , we would get very annoyed indeed when we were given the wrong change in shops or sent invoices that overcharged us .
After all , English IS our mother tongue and , as a nation , we are poor at using it and terrible at speaking foreign languages . In fact the position in the U.K would be inconceivable in many countries , those which claim to be educated, anyway .

From what I understand, being autistic can be INCREDIBLY frustrating, and I'm sure this can lead to what appears to be bad-temper being displayed.

Reading this thread, I could FEEL Jena's frustration - she was being quite badly provoked by some people on here - and I'm sure that was behind her outbursts.

That was one of the reasons I finally decided to post last night - no-one seemed to be making any serious effort to understand where Jena was coming from, and the ganging-up was looking distastefully like bullying, especially once she had mentioned about autism.

StarSparkle

You may have read the thread StarSparkle, but not properly digested it.

I offered advice to Jena76 on the capitisation of first words in a new sentence. My advice was offered in a non-threatening and non-condemnatory way, and was acknowledged by jena76 herself, who then immediately put my suggestion into practice.

I rather resent being lumped into your all embracing accusitory post of bullying Jena76.

On a separate point - fareast, you're still not separating your paragraphs, and it does so hurt my eyes trying to read your posts. If you're still using your Chinese pc, hit the down arrow bar twice, and that should produce the desired results. :thumbsup:

To the people what dont know about autism and the people who feel the need to put people down about spelling etc..read this and you might learn something..

http://www.nas.org.uk/nas/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=650&a=10321

I think a few of you should be ashamed of yourselves..you and we know who you are..

Thanks to all the nice and understanding messages :)

Thank you for the link janny. I have some limited knowledge of autism. I was not aware, and nor does your link support this contention, that autism affects a person's ability to communicate via the written word. Autism affects a person's thought processes, and thus in the main their verbal communication skills.

If you read your link, you will not find any reference that a person with autism has difficulty in expressing themselves in the medium of the written word.

Jena76 used a preponderance of :rant: and :hihi: in her responses, and from the beginning (including her OP) appeared to adopt a hostile attitude towards other posters. She continued in this vein, until, and despite numerous Mod warnings, she received a ban for her offensiveness.

fareast, you're still not separating your paragraphs, and it does so hurt my eyes trying to read your posts. If you're still using your Chinese pc, hit the down arrow bar twice, and that should produce the desired results. :thumbsup:

and try not to use a space before a punctuation mark!

This thread has been a really strange one. I can understand that some people don't like having their lack of expertise brought out in front of what seems like the whole world, and on SF probably is, come to think of it.

People who have the disability, foible, call it what you will, of not being able to overlook errors in blocks of texts, don't seem to get any sympathy at all. I actually find it physically painful to read something like Fareast's posts because of the way they're set out, and I have to keep rereading to get the sense of it. I get brain ache when I have to cope with many similar posts in a thread :)

When reading posts riddled with poor punctuation, grammatical errors and mis-spellings, I find myself mentally correcting them and so, again, I lose the sense of what's being said. For instance in one post above there are seven (either punctuation, spelling or grammatical errors) in approximately the same number of lines of text! I can remember the errors but not the message, that has to be some sort of disability that I should be pitied for and not vilified.

I don't criticise people for not being able to proof read their own posts, but I can't understand the mindset that refuses to learn, disablities aside. The same people are still typing 'grammer' at the end of the thread as were at the beginning!

Also, perhaps people who like to have their mistakes set right for them are puzzled and hurt when their well meaning advice to others is rejected with invective and insults.

Rant over!

Ok, I think that this thread has run its course now so I'm going to close it shortly. To help us round off, let me reiterate SF's attitude towards grammar along with a few tips for a happy life on SF.



1. We seriously frown on the use of txt spk. It's very hard to read and not necessary when we don't have any maximum character limit in posts.

2. We do encourage people to use as good a standard of English as they can manage. Of course, everyone has a different standard so as long as people are doing their best to be understood we're happy. If you're an English Professor please make allowances for those Members who aren't.

3. Remember your manners. It doesn't matter who you are, what you are, or how clever you are. "Manners maketh the man" (and woman) It's the best way we know for us all rub along together.

4. Try not to use too many smilies :nono: It's confusing :huh: and your posts are clearer :thumbsup: when they aren't overused. :banana:

5. It's not just about the words. The layout is important too, so use plenty of paragraphs. Don't bunch your text up into a single huge block of text. It makes it very hard to read on a PC screen and some peoples eyes find it very difficult to read. A little 'white space' on the page is helpful to everyone.

6. The Mod Team is nearly always around so don't be afraid to use the 'report post' if you see something kicking off, or something that doesn't look right.

7. If a thread or another Member is winding you up... just walk away and try not to let it get to you and avoid using the :rant: smiley. Getting into an argument is a very bad idea so don't let SF spoil your day. Remember my mantra. - "it's only the internet".

6. We HATE bullying, even of people who use txt spk. It's the biggest single reason for dishing out bans so take heed everyone!

Doo u feal betta four that rooby? :hihi: :thumbsup:

Oops our posts crossed Tony.

I actually find it physically painful to read something like Fareast's posts because of the way they're set out, and I have to keep rereading to get the sense of it. I get brain ache when I have to cope with many similar posts in a thread :)

Glad to hear I'm not the only one to experience this ruby! I think that grammar not only allows accuracy and clarity of meaning, but also eases the readers experience by matching the format expected by their language processing machinery (assuming that they have good grammar themselves) - so that instead of having to search for and claw out meaning from a paragraph, they absorb it smoothly, effortlessly and far more precisely.

I don't read fareasts posts ever, to be quite honest (nor those of some other posters) - not because of anything personal, but because it takes so long and so many re-reads before I get anything useful out of them that it's not worth it, and because as I've mentioned it actually sort of hurts.

Grammatically well written posts I can read and digest quickly, and only very rarely have I found myself misinterpreting the meaning or having to read them over lots of times to understand them.

Maybe if you don't have good grammar (or don't find it painful to read bad grammar) it's easier to read poorly written articles, but I doubt very much that those people can read well written pieces as quickly or accurately.

Doo u feal betta four that rooby? :hihi: :thumbsup:


no one understands what it's like *sob* just micky-taking and bad attitudes

:D

edit: except Crayfish ...

I don't read fareasts posts ever, to be quite honest (nor those of some other posters) - not because of anything personal, but because it takes so long and so many re-reads before I get anything useful out of them that it's not worth it

Same here! It doesn't matter to me whether the writing is in txtspk or 'perfect English' but all in one lump of a huge paragraph - if my eye can't easily scan it, I don't read it because it's not something I can easily understand.

Maybe people wouldn't mind making an effort to spread out their writing? IE, to make more paragraphs? That means pressing the 'Return/Enter' key quite often, to make more spaces inbetween lines. :)

I know that I recently thought that one poster was disagreeing with me, so I answered accordingly :rant:, only to find afterwards that right at the end of the loooooong load of txtspk she'd actually put 'I no wat ur saying n i agre'. Ooops!

So - it's not necessarily about being able to write in 'perfect' English - but IT IS about being understood easily!

no one understands what it's like *sob* just micky-taking and bad attitudes

:D

edit: except Crayfish ...
Count me in! I thought I was alone in feeling pain at bad grammar, but thankfully now it seems I'm not.

I have to say, I do make a substantial effort to read posts where the text is all bunched up into one paragraph. Sometimes I give up, sometimes not. I do take quite a bit from Fareast's posts, but have to admit I often don't reach the end of them.

What really makes my stomach turn however, is people saying 'could of', getting their/there/they're wrong, or Capitalising Every Word. I easily lose the inclination to carry on reading such posts. It quite literally hurts to do so.

So - it's not necessarily about being able to write in 'perfect' English - but IT IS about being understood easily!
I agree 100%.

OK, so she got offended, but others where being nasty as well. So why didn't they get a ban? I mean come on, if it applies to one person. Shouldn't it apply to others. I may have got it wrong that only one person got banned when all she was doing in my opinion was standing up for herself. I realise she got warnings, but maybe she felt upset and hurt by some of the stuff people where saying to her on here.
I am not referring to everyone on this thread, just a few of you in what i have read, where not being nice to here and i can understand some of why she wrote some of the posts she did. I mean if someone was being nasty to you, wouldn't you all defend yourselfs.
Some of you where saying your opinions in a nice way and trying to help and suggest something, but others were being just plain nasty, which is not right.

As for english in the uk today, yes it's rubbish the way we all use it, but so what? We are english people and thats what we do, for whatever reason.
Now i know i have bad grammar, but so what? I know my spelling is not great, but so what? I use it as best i can and to me thats all that matters.

Everyone tries to the best of their ablity to make an effort, but in some cases its not possible to do that. So they do it as best they can. Should they be picked on it for trying their best. I think the answer to that is no.

edited because i thought i was being abit rude and nasty.

wow, is that that is for, would never have known that.

Anyway enough of that. I try to the best of my ablity to make an effort, but in some cases its not possible to do that. So they do it as best they can. Should they be picked on it for trying their best. I think the answer to that is no.

Ahhh...it's not their best tho, is it, necessarily? I was talking on msn the other day to a close young relative who usually talks to me in one-word answers like 'kwl'. All of a sudden, because he wanted me to do some shopping for him, he was able to type in full sentences and use words that I would easily understand!

I put it to you that it's not 'their best' - it's a 'language' in which 'they' choose to communicate amongst their own. However, if 'they' wish to communicate with people who aren't of their own circles, they are perfectly able to do so. I'm not talking here about 'perfect' spelling or grammar, just their best attempt to communicate.

Most of us can understand that.

I may have got it wrong that only one person got banned when all she was doing in my opinion was standing up for herself. I realise she got warnings, but maybe she felt upset and hurt by some of the stuff people where saying to her on here.

IMO what she got banned for (apart from anything else) was using :rant: :huh: :loopy: and such like (as examples).

It's the use of smilies that upsets people sometimes.

OK fair enough, but in some of the post don't the smileys get used too much. So what happened there?

I honestly didn't realise that my lay-outs on S.F were causing so much eye-strain to various posters .

I do actually start new paragraphs [ hopefully in roughly the correct place ] but when I'm using the computer , mentally , I'm still writing in the " old-fashioned " way .In the normal way there is no space between paragraphs , simply a new line started , about a third the way along .

I automatically do this but have never regularly left spaces . Because the computer then " pushes " the first line of the new paragraph back to the beginning of the line , it then looks all bunched up .

From now on , I'll remember the new rule as I don't want to be forking out for glasses when I return to the U.K.

Yes , the space before the comma is a personal odd habit and I do it because I think the commas and full stops look too close to the words . A lot of posters leave a space after a comma , which one would not do in normal writing .

The main problem with communication , apart from if the spelling.....etc....is gibberish , is ambiguity .Posters often initially post short , ' sharp ' retorts . The problem is that that often leads to about 10 further posts as people try to fathom out what they mean .

Ahhh...it's not their best tho, is it, necessarily? I was talking on msn the other day to a close young relative who usually talks to me in one-word answers like 'kwl'. All of a sudden, because he wanted me to do some shopping for him, he was able to type in full sentences and use words that I would easily understand!

I put it to you that it's not 'their best' - it's a 'language' in which 'they' choose to communicate amongst their own. However, if 'they' wish to communicate with people who aren't of their own circles, they are perfectly able to do so. I'm not talking here about 'perfect' spelling or grammar, just their best attempt to communicate.

Most of us can understand that.

Ok maybe, but its not always the case for everyone. How do we know what the individual is like by just reading a post.
We all have feelings you know.
All i am saying is no matter what, shouldn't the person get some sort of respect rather than abuse. Rather than someone trying to wind the person up for fun or whatever.
I am saying this in a nice way, its not meant in a nasty way and i do not intend to turn it in to something nasty, thats why i in the end edited my post where i thought i was being rude and nasty as this is not really what this thread is about. Its about trying to put someones feelings and thoughts across in whatever way.

Yes , the space before the comma is a personal odd habit and I do it because I think the commas and full stops look too close to the words . A lot of posters leave a space after a comma , which one would not do in normal writing .


STOP LEAVING SPACES BEFORE COMMAS! :) As had been said before, it makes for difficult reading.

I think it's become apparent on here, Fareast, that a number of forumers find your posts hard to read. It's up to you, tbh - keep on posting as you'd like to (your choice) or put them into a format that makes them readable to the average reader. :)

STOP LEAVING SPACES BEFORE COMMAS! :) As had been said before, it makes for difficult reading.



Steady on, old girl, that's a bit harsh!

Fareast! What an improvement! That looks 100% better and very readable! :D

In normal writing a comma comes immediately after the word and then a space is left before the next word, exactly as in typing.

When typing two spaces should be used after a full stop. Although the limitations of html remove them when we post I think.

I am saying this in a nice way, its not meant in a nasty way and i do not intend to turn in to something nasty......Its about trying to put someones feelings and thoughts across in whatever way.

I agree with you. I suppose where I'm coming from is - we are speaking a language on here, and that language (by common consent) is English.

If we were speaking txtspk on here, or native-American-smoke-signals, or whatever, then that would be the chosen language.

By subscribing to the forum (ie, by joining up to it) we are all accepting its rules and regulations. If I want to go on a forum where everyone speaks in txtspk, I'm sure I could find one! However, on here, the chosen language (ie, the written medium) is ENGLISH.

In that spirit, we all have a right to expect fellow-posters to speak in a language that we understand. I'm not talking about errors in the language, I'm talking about people who use a different language, for example, txtspk. If someone came on here speaking Russian, you wouldn't expect me to understand, would you? It's the same thing, imo, as regards txtspk!

Yes but you see the problem is most of us these days text too much, so we get into the habbit of using that kind of talk anyway. Me personnally i don't like txt speak because it is so hard to understand and it takes ages to work out what the person is saying.

Steady on, old girl, that's a bit harsh!

Fareast! What an improvement! That looks 100% better and very readable! :D

Hehe, I was going for EXCELLENCE! :hihi:

But you're quite right, it was a much better attempt. :)

Thank you for the link janny. I have some limited knowledge of autism. I was not aware, and nor does your link support this contention, that autism affects a person's ability to communicate via the written word. Autism affects a person's thought processes, and thus in the main their verbal communication skills.

If you read your link, you will not find any reference that a person with autism has difficulty in expressing themselves in the medium of the written word.

Jena76 used a preponderance of :rant: and :hihi: in her responses, and from the beginning (including her OP) appeared to adopt a hostile attitude towards other posters. She continued in this vein, until, and despite numerous Mod warnings, she received a ban for her offensiveness.

Many people with autism have unusual reactions to sensations such as sound, light or touch. They may also have learning disabilities, dyslexia or other difficulties.

Fareast! What an improvement! That looks 100% better and very readable! :D
I'd just like to reiterate that comment, Fareast. Your last post was a pleasure to read.

Yes , the space before the comma is a personal odd habit and I do it because I think the commas and full stops look too close to the words . A lot of posters leave a space after a comma , which one would not do in normal writing .

In 'normal' writing one would leave a space after a comma and no space before. There should be no spaces before an !?.,:; and either one or two spaces after. (A space before and none after an opening bracket. No space before) and one after a closing bracket.

Two spaces after the full-stop is the old rule and one the new, but you will find that colleges will go along with either so long as there is consistency.

Fareast, I have never come across anyone who types in the style that you choose and I find it difficult to read and it is of course incorrect. However, each to his own, as they say.

I did a search for autism and this is what i found:

http://aut.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/8/2/125

http://www.genuineanswers.com/ailments-medicine/what-is-autism.htm?gclid=CJvEutqzpYcCFStpMAod8R4T_Q

I did a search for autism and this is what i found:

http://aut.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/8/2/125

http://www.genuineanswers.com/ailments-medicine/what-is-autism.htm?gclid=CJvEutqzpYcCFStpMAod8R4T_Q

No-one (Jena especially - when is she back?) has answered my question as to whether she personally has autism, or just her son.