Looks like we may finally be getting a Starbucks in the city centre. Good or bad?

http://libplugins.sheffield.gov.uk/planning/details.asp?Id=14750&Typ=W

Oh goodie. More overpriced Americana cack to make Sheffield exactly the same as everywhere else on the planet.

bad, starbucks coffee is rank. would much rather go to www.farrers.com and buy some real stuff for less than a price of a coffee at starbucks and get many cups out of it at home.

Predictable!! Not my cup of tea (sorry :) ) but if other people like it and it can be of benefit to the people of Sheffield then good luck to them. At least we will never end up like London with a Starbucks at every other street corner.
Although having just read some further comments I do like the idea of more of a homegrown style coffee/tea establishment instead of the American style trash that we seem all too easy to embrace..maybe Fred and Betty's Tea and Muffin shop. Just off to the patent office to register 'Fred & Betty's'

So much for the high quality restaurant that was supposed to be going in that building.

Hehe, I rather like the irony though - we lose a tourist information office and gain a Starbucks ;)

It's such a shame people would rather have second-rate produce just because they know the name and feel comfortable with it.

Originally posted by Chalky
Looks like we may finally be getting a Starbucks in the city centre. Good or bad?

http://libplugins.sheffield.gov.uk/planning/details.asp?Id=14750&Typ=W

So how long is that after London got their first?

Good old Sheffield, always at the forefront!

Ey by gum, lets all go down t'coal mine sithey!

Ooh there evil those starbucks, I always thought it was quite nice Sheffield (well the city centre) didnt have one. In newcastle theres one on every corner!

BOYCOTT STARBUCKS

In London, in particular Hampstead ( a beautiful and very cultural part) Starbucks opened a couple of outlets next door but one to each other. In the middle of these Starbucks was an Italien, family run coffeee and pastry shop. Now due to BRANDING madness, those who are brain washed - have seen the Starbucks Brand, and instead of going into the beautiful Italian coffee shop, they opt for the one they "know" and get what think must be a nice cup of coffee.

Starbucks have a policy of cluster buying, which forces independent family run shops out of business - like the Italian family - who have no business now, Starbucks has since shut down all the ones they dont need as mission has been complete - to evict all other coffee shops.

DISGUSTING

So please tell everyone you know to avoid, and go to a proper coffee shop.

When i was in Chicago i actually saw a cross roads with two Starbucks directly across from each other on two of the corners... I have no idea how they can do that and still make money. I thought i had found the end of the world, right down the middle of that road, with a Starbucks at the beginning and end of the world. They also had Subway and Micky D's every 100 yards... can't be good for you.

You probably won't find me in a Starbucks. Anyway, if I'm in that part of town and want a fancy coffee I will continue to go into the Winter gardens and get one from the outlet in there, for no reason other than the pleasant, relaxing surroundings!

Where's Starbucks actually going in the city centre ? There's already an in-house one at Virgin Active.

Remo's in Broomhill do the best coffees in Sheffield I reckon. If you want a change from your latte's and cappo's, then try there Mocha choc drink. It's fantastic !!! Services is really friendly too.

The Panini's are excellent too ! Try the parma ham, cheese and roast veg filling. mmmmmmmm. Let me know what you think if you go.

(ps. By the way, I don't work fo them and not related. Just a genuine punter guys).

AND DO U CALL THAT COFFEE?

Originally posted by fifi
BOYCOTT STARBUCKS

In London, in particular Hampstead ( a beautiful and very cultural part) Starbucks opened a couple of outlets next door but one to each other. In the middle of these Starbucks was an Italien, family run coffeee and pastry shop. Now due to BRANDING madness, those who are brain washed - have seen the Starbucks Brand, and instead of going into the beautiful Italian coffee shop, they opt for the one they "know" and get what think must be a nice cup of coffee.

Starbucks have a policy of cluster buying, which forces independent family run shops out of business - like the Italian family - who have no business now, Starbucks has since shut down all the ones they dont need as mission has been complete - to evict all other coffee shops.

DISGUSTING

So please tell everyone you know to avoid, and go to a proper coffee shop.

Very true. Naomi Klein mentions this in her book, No Logo (www.sozialistische-klassiker.org/Klein/klein01.pdf)

The above link takes you to an Acrobat PDF version. Adobe Acrobat reader is required to view the document.

Abdul
Their policy is no different to any of the large supermarkets that operate in this country, they all want to kill off the little guy and when they have the monopoly they can squeeze us all dry with higher prices and lower quality.

owdlad.

Not really familiar with Starbucks but it has an upbeat sound to it which suits our new-style 24-hour , vibrant city.
Doubt if it will compare with the quaint lock-up cafe in byegone Pond St bus-station.Think they used a bottled concentrate of chicory essence called Camp which seemed to satisfy the regulars.The patrons' spoons were left in glass of water which became progressively cloudier.A nice touch which Starbucks might consider.

Well at least it will make a change to a costa on every corner! I've nothing against Starbucks - its better than costa anyway! - however it won't lure me away from Nonas or The Lounge!

I’m so furious!

I read am interview with a Famous Chef the other day and he said he boycotted Starbucks, “Why?” asked the reporter, “Is it because they exploit coffee farmers in the third world and have a policy of destroying local businesses?”

“No their coffee is crap”

Seriously though this is really bad news. Starbucks will make it their aim to destroy all competition. Competition that cannot compete with their buying power. You may argue the wonders of a free market but when this means local people will be loosing their job to aid the profits of share holders i really can’t support it.

Closest to this awful place will be Zoobies Cafe in the winter garden. A cafe that not only sells all fair trade produce but makes a special effort to stock local produce.

When this place opens i for one am going to be outside encouraging people to go a drink a fair trade (and better) coffee at Zoobies

Originally posted by wiseguy
AND DO U CALL THAT COFFEE?


Was this referring to me ? If so, what are you on about ?

Starbucks, McDonalds, Burger King, Subway et al - people should really question why we need these shops at all in Sheffield.

Do they really contribute to our culture or identity?

not at all, well not in a good way anyway. wish theyd get rid of them all as soon as. i never use them, theres no need, they just make you fat and unhealthy anyway.

Originally posted by Jim
Starbucks, McDonalds, Burger King, Subway et al - people should really question why we need these shops at all in Sheffield.

Do they really contribute to our culture or identity?

No we probably don't NEED these shops, but some people LIKE going to have a Starbucks coffee, a Subway sandwich or a Maccy D's. Everyone likes and wants for different things, and if you like hippy, fair-trade alternatives that give you a nice warm glow inside cos you're 'helping the world become a better place'... good for you. Just remember; the rest of us don't care that much!

so where is this starbucks going to be then?

Just remember; the rest of us don't care that much!

Dave - you should care. McDonalds is responsible for turning our children into a group who are addicted to high caffeine, high fat, high salt, high sugar laden foods. Children are becoming obese at a horrendously early age which leads to poor health within childhood. This in turn will impact our health services.

This might not be so bad were it not for the blatant way that they advertise to children. Did you know that McDonalds are the larghst distributor of toys to children? This, and their advertising directly to children, concerns me because they are capturing their burger munching group at a young and impressionable age.

I don't know much aboput Starbucks but I can see from some of the posts on this thread that they follow the same, immoral, busienss practices. As such, people should really consider whether or not these companies add to our culture.

/lecture over/

Just a thought but I reckon most people go to Starbucks because they like it. Same for McDonalds.

Why on Earth should a corporation be charged with controlling the diets of children? When I was young that was my mum's job.

Since when has a shop in the city centre had to add anything to our culture?

If you look at what's there now, it's obviously never been an over-riding planning consideration...

Perhaps cuslture was the wrong word.

However, it's very easy to say that diet is down to the individual parent. But try to say that to a stressed Mum who's child will only eat at McD's. Have a look on a Saturday - most of the customers are children. This should be setting alamr bells off....

The hardcore marketing of this type of food to children is immoral. Anyway, I appear to have wandered off thread somewhat...

Yes Jim, all these fat little kids will have an impact on our health system- but don't blame MacDonalds et al. It's time we took some responsibility for our own lives, at the moment people are being all American and/or thick: "I'm a right big fat b*****d and it's all YOUR fault... How was I supposed to know that eating 10 big mac meals a day would make me fat?".

An extreme example, I know, but these fatties (there's no such word as obesity in my vocabulary- that just adds to the problem. Obesity is not a disease, it's a lifestyle choice...) are just taking the **** blaming someone else. If your kids are too fat don't blame the food YOU fed them, it's all YOUR fault for buying it for them in the first place... Whatever happened to saying no?

Starbucks/MacDonalds/KFC/etc are businesses, they exist to make money and get as many customers as possible, not be a friendly neighbour to the local burger bar/coffeeshop/pizza house. Some people like 'em, some don't. They're names you can trust, and to some people that's more important than anything else. And while the business practises they use may not be 'fair', I sure do admire the speed they have gone round the world...

Whatever the merrits or otherwise of this particular company is there not a touch of anti-Americanism about some of the opposition to it?

It always puzzles me that people who bang on about the greatness of multiculturalism are often instinctively anti-American. If we believe in multiculturalism surley american culture is a pretty major one.

Quite right daver, it's about time people started taking responsibility for their actions instead of blaming everyone else.

Do people on here really think that Starbucks got as big as it has by selling crap coffee? It may not be to everyone's taste but quite clearly it is to a lot of people's taste. Typical of us Brits to knock anything that is remotely successful.

How much for a cup of coffee!!

a lot of people think theyre "cool" going into starbucks, many American films are blamed for this. Its supposedly cosmopolitan to go to Starbucks and have a skinny latte or whatever. people dont go because its good coffee, they hadnt tried it until they went afterall, they go because its so famous and everybodys doing it imo. obviously if they go again, its because they enjoy the whole coffee shop experience, the cosy, warmth it gives them inside (cant remember where i read this). but everyones entitled to their own opinion, so if people want to go waste their money in starbucks thats up to them. alternatively come round to my place and ill show you what coffees all about!!

Do I get biscuits as well Mimi???

if u wanna pay a quid for each digestive yeh ;)

well i'm glad beacuse i'm sick of Costa coffee and it'll be somewhere cheesey and cute to sit in at lunchtime.
Wahey i say..

Ignoring the ethical and cultural issues for a second. A commodity that benefits all Sheffield through increasing tourism has been lost to a business which openly admits to competitively putting local companies out of business.

We have lost our tourist information office (one desk and a handful of leaflets is not suitable for a city the size of Sheffield) and gained nothing of value to the community or local business. We are losing tourism and local profits because of this decision, it's disgusting.

Since when has our local council started representing the interests of Starbucks and not the electorate

when it in the interest of thier back pocket being filled, like every council decision, there has to be another reason for their decisions, and that my friend is called money, power and influence.

I think far more disturbing than any political views about capitalism and globalization is the fact that we will soon have no choice.

Ok, so some independent places aren't as good, but some are better. Starbucks don't need to provide the best cup of coffee around, because they know that people will drink there. They provide a mediocre product because people seem to be happier with somewhere they know than actually getting a better cup of coffee.

The success of these chains is down to two things. The first is cost. If price is a factor between two competing companies, then the cheaper will inevitably win. Do people really think MacDonald’s is so popular because of the quality of its burgers? You could well argue that you enjoy eating their food, but it would be very hard to argue that if you want a good burger, MacDonald’s is the place to go. The price factor never leads to better quality.

The second reason is the one I have touched on, people like things to be the same everywhere they go. Personally, it is something I can't understand, but I’m in the minority. Starbucks is becoming ubiquitous. In lots of places now it is the only choice if you are wanting a cup of coffee.

People see the opening of places like Starbucks as a kind of affirmation for the city to the rest of the country, but I wouldn’t be surprised if in ten years there is a choice of Starbucks or Starbucks, as their goal in the market place seems not to be to produce the best cup of coffee, but to produce more Starbucks. Haven't they already opened two coffee stands in Meadowhall in the last year? Now a store in town.

But hey, the people get what the people want.

Milky coffee with a bit of froth ? Might as well make your own for much cheaper. The only way these corporates will stop is if there's no business for them. In the end, people go because they are attracted to the (so called) lifestyle ie. comfy chairs, big cups, American TV etc. The coffee almost becomes incidental.

I personally hate corporate coffee houses but love chillin' in the independents. The choice is there. It's up to the individual to choose what they want for themselves and the city.

I wonder how successful these coffee shops would have be if Friends had never been created ?

Originally posted by mimicraze
people dont go because its good coffee,

Actually mimicraze I would disagree there because in comparison to alot of places I think their coffee is lovely but then I'm not a coffee expert and like my coffee milky.

I do see your point though but I only go in a place for the product and couldn't care less about the politics of fashion.

Originally posted by daver
An extreme example, I know, but these fatties (there's no such word as obesity in my vocabulary- that just adds to the problem. Obesity is not a disease, it's a lifestyle choice...) ...


What about people who are overweight because of health problems - thyroid imbalances for example? Can you justify calling them unpleasant nicknames too?

Is this definate then??? Is starbucks going to be where the tourist information centre was??? They seem to be working on that site at the mo, and a starbucks coffee shop would be lovely there:thumbsup:

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
Closest to this awful place will be Zoobies Cafe in the winter garden. A cafe that not only sells all fair trade produce but makes a special effort to stock local produce.

When this place opens i for one am going to be outside encouraging people to go a drink a fair trade (and better) coffee at Zoobies

Zoobies make realy good coffee, and the winter garden is much nicer to drink it in.

I heard that the tourist office had been bought by Mama & Leonis, to make into a erstaurant, which would have been nice.

so is there going to be a starbucks there or not??

Yes. They are awaiting planning consent to erect an external sign from the local authority.

really?? but they've already started the work!! how long will this take?

I think their coffee is excellent, too , expensive but great.

When are they due to open?

Originally posted by nick2
Zoobies make realy good coffee, and the winter garden is much nicer to drink it in.

I heard that the tourist office had been bought by Mama & Leonis, to make into a erstaurant, which would have been nice.

The winter gardens is a nice place to walk around but they're aren't enough benches to sit on.

Personally I'm looking forward to Starbucks. I want to be able to choose not to buy their coffee. A Starbucks is a sign that Sheffield is going up in the world.

I was in Manchester last weekend; they have a fair few Starbucks and they have a lot of independant coffee shops. The centre of Manchester is amazing compared to Sheffield. It attracts a lot of shoppers and it has a lot more interesting shops amongst the generic chain stores.

Originally posted by Chalky
Looks like we may finally be getting a Starbucks in the city centre. Good or bad?

http://libplugins.sheffield.gov.uk/planning/details.asp?Id=14750&Typ=W

BAD ! Coffee shops is the lamest type of shop just after mobile phone shops.

But their application is for Tudor Square, so no one will notice...
Originally posted by Disco_Cat
Ignoring the ethical and cultural issues for a second. A commodity that benefits all Sheffield through increasing tourism has been lost to a business which openly admits to competitively putting local companies out of business.

We have lost our tourist information office (one desk and a handful of leaflets is not suitable for a city the size of Sheffield) and gained nothing of value to the community or local business. We are losing tourism and local profits because of this decision, it's disgusting.

Since when has our local council started representing the interests of Starbucks and not the electorate
Aye !

Originally posted by ptigga
I was in Manchester last weekend; they have a fair few Starbucks and they have a lot of independant coffee shops. The centre of Manchester is amazing compared to Sheffield. It attracts a lot of shoppers and it has a lot more interesting shops amongst the generic chain stores.

There are a lot of good small shops in manchester, but I can't work-out how they manage to stay open, the rent must be as high as in Sheffield (or higher) but they stay open year after year.

Or, perhaps, Manchester council actually encourage this diversity by charging lower rents ?

I read in The Star a while back that the council wants to get rid of the two or three small shops next to the Yorkshire bank in fargate (Lush etc.) and turn that into one large unit.

Isn't the lack of choice what turns people of the town centre ?

Division Street is about the only shopping area now with any interesting (ie. not mobile phone) shops.

Don't drink coffee so I won't be contributing to Starbuck Inc.'s profits.

I do worry about the effect it'll have on Zoobies in the Winter Gardens though. They do a very nice mug of fair-trade tea.

Originally posted by nick2
There are a lot of good small shops in manchester, but I can't work-out how they manage to stay open, the rent must be as high as in Sheffield (or higher) but they stay open year after year.

Or, perhaps, Manchester council actually encourage this diversity by charging lower rents ?

I read in The Star a while back that the council wants to get rid of the two or three small shops next to the Yorkshire bank in fargate (Lush etc.) and turn that into one large unit.

Isn't the lack of choice what turns people of the town centre ?

Division Street is about the only shopping area now with any interesting (ie. not mobile phone) shops.

Eeeeek! Lush is one of the best shops in Sheffield. The few units next to that are a bit useless. Discount bookstore and cheap shoddy bags shop, but Lush is ace. Fargate needs more smaller shops. There's far too much frontage devoted to Gap and Mark's and Spencer's. There's some small units along the left hand side but most of them are all taken by bloody mobile phone shops.

I would rather have a Sheffield original such as Tuckwoods was than some franchised North American cash machine which doesn't even make good coffee. What suckers we are we followers of fashion. We deserve for every city centre be the exact same as every other.

Nothing special about Starbucks, Leeds has five of them, one of them is even in the suburbs.

Not a coffee or hot drink fan, but Starbucks do some really nice iced drinks to!

http://starbucks.co.uk/en-GB/_Favorite+Beverages/Cold+Comforts.htm

Originally posted by ptigga
Eeeeek! Lush is one of the best shops in Sheffield. The few units next to that are a bit useless. Discount bookstore and cheap shoddy bags shop, but Lush is ace. Fargate needs more smaller shops. There's far too much frontage devoted to Gap and Mark's and Spencer's. There's some small units along the left hand side but most of them are all taken by bloody mobile phone shops.

Rumour has it that Lush is moving into the old Adams shop at the bottom of Fargate, that's if Starbucks don't get in first:P

Max spielmann is closing on Fargate. it will be vacant for next week. Apparently (as I asked why they were closing when I picked up my pictures) the staff have been made redundant. Have they got anything planned for the whole of carmel house as the only shop still there is lush. Cant understand why as its one of the most beautiful buildings in Sheffield.

I agree with ptigga, I luv this City as I said but Manchester has really excelled itself,is well worth a visit.
Got shot down in flames last time I said that, so was so glad to read ptiggas post.

Starbucks is really taking place, at last. It should be opening in the next few days.

I dont like coffee at all!!!! from anywhere! However i do love Starbucks Frappacinos!!!

I think it opens on Monday 20th Septemeber.

Originally posted by Sony
Max spielmann is closing on Fargate. it will be vacant for next week. Apparently (as I asked why they were closing when I picked up my pictures) the staff have been made redundant. Have they got anything planned for the whole of carmel house as the only shop still there is lush. Cant understand why as its one of the most beautiful buildings in Sheffield.

Yes, it was in the news several months ago, predictably they're going to pull the building down (essentially) leaving the facade... so they can put a big chain fashion store in and use the currently unused upper floor space.

It's a real shame as the building is very impressive internally, vaulted ceilings and original features.

Seems as if most areas of Sheffield are going the same way.

Originally posted by skyfitsboy
I think it opens on Monday 20th Septemeber.


has starbucks opened yet? my sis went passed yesterday and they are still decorating.

when did starbucks say they do real italian coffee? doesnt people go for the new kind of coffee (american coffee)? thats the point isnt it?

well it is for me :D proper coffee is abit too bitter for me

Apologies for the mis information, it must be next week when it opens, ya can see a pic here (http://img67.exs.cx/img67/8572/IMAG0013a.jpg)

i have it on very good word that starbucks opens on monday if all goes to plan they are having problems with certain rules towards taking hot food off the premises which they need to sort before opening

I walked past yesterday, and the furniture is in along with a million cardboard boxes, no doubt filled with a zillion cardboard cups.

I've always found Starbucks to be rather unfriendly places that I need to leave as soon as possible. Much prefer the Italians.

I think I'll stick to Mama and Leonis for coffee, or Zoobies.

Originally posted by nick2
I think I'll stick to Mama and Leonis for coffee, or Zoobies.

Good ols sheffielder "I'll stick to what I've been doing for a years.." thats why half of the shops coming to Sheffield stay open for a year or so. Because of people like you who cannot accept that Sheffield is changing into a 21st century city...

Originally posted by Sony
Good ols sheffielder "I'll stick to what I've been doing for a years.." thats why half of the shops coming to Sheffield stay open for a year or so. Because of people like you who cannot accept that Sheffield is changing into a 21st century city...

No, because Starbucks is overpriced and tastes like crap.

Originally posted by Sony
Good ols sheffielder "I'll stick to what I've been doing for a years.." thats why half of the shops coming to Sheffield stay open for a year or so.
Like we're going to drive Starbuck's Coffee out of the city through lack of business. Good lord... :rolleyes:

The chain does has bucks in its name... How revealing can that be :D :D

Visited Starbucks today, now that its opened, was pleasently suprised with interior, much bigger than I was expecting from outside.

It was a really nice atmosphere inside too and the staff was cool:clap:

What's the problem with Starbucks making money?

As has been said before if you don't want Starbucks, go elsewhere. If existing coffee shops can be put out of business by Starbucks then it indicates that they're not giving people what they want and that Starbucks is.

Starbucks isn't cheap, isn't the best coffee and many branches are not exactly relaxing environments, but people go there.

I've found the attitude of Starbucks staff to be pretty good in the three or four branches I've used - Edinburgh, Leeds (2) and London. I've had good service in them most of the time, the odd bits of crap service - in other words just like any other eatery. I went to Mama and Leonies some years ago and I was not impressed - whether I got them on a bad day or not I don't know but I've not gone around damning them left, right and centre in the meantime.

It's choice - Starbucks coming here increases the choice available. No one forces you to go there - no Starbucks customers are picketing small coffee shops. Just choose where you want to go and go. Let the market decide!

Joe

Starbucks looked empty on Saturday when I went past, I had to queue for 10 minutes to get a coffee at Zoobies though.

Originally posted by nick2
Starbucks looked empty on Saturday when I went past, I had to queue for 10 minutes to get a coffee at Zoobies though.

Slow service at Zoobies then?

(ducks to avoid incoming missiles....!)

Originally posted by Sony
Good ols sheffielder "I'll stick to what I've been doing for a years.." thats why half of the shops coming to Sheffield stay open for a year or so. Because of people like you who cannot accept that Sheffield is changing into a 21st century city...

Zoobies is new, Sheffielders clearly didn't resist that change!

Originally posted by Andy C
Slow service at Zoobies then?

(ducks to avoid incoming missiles....!)

They are a bit slow, but whats the rush ?

Originally posted by Captain_Scarlet
The chain does has bucks in its name... How revealing can that be :D :D
It also has star in its name. Maybe they originate from space and are run by green tentacled aliens who use the coffee as a form of mind control.

2 new starbucks are planned folks, and I'll give you one guess where they'll be: One on Division street planned to open in January 2005 and another one on Ecclesall Rd planned for April 2005 or sooner.
Good news or bad news?? Good news for me!!:clap:

2 more Starbucks thats great news:thumbsup:

That means we will have four if you count the one at Meadowall, only one behind Leeds which has a huge coffee culture.

dont we have 3 at meadowhall? ;)

Walked past the new Starbucks today and it looked great - if it and the service are anything like the Leeds rail Station one I'll definitely give it a go - it is nice to finally have a choice in Sheffield - how about a few more choices now ... choice of bookshop, choice of chippie, choice of clothes shops, choice of internet cafe, choice of ...

am I making myself clear ?

Went there for a coffee on Sunday. The place is nice and the atmosphere was good but
a) the toilets were not working
b) the coffee is expensive (i.e. nothing for less than about £1.60)
c) the coffee was not that good.

Don't know if I'd be rushing back.

Originally posted by Patrick2000
it is nice to finally have a choice in Sheffield - how about a few more choices now ... choice of bookshop

We'll probably have a Borders or Barnes and Noble soon, to go with the Best Buy, Subway, Starbuck, Wal-mart, MacDonalds, Chilis, Burger King, Woolworths, KFC, Gap, Game...etc etc...

Originally posted by Snook
We'll probably have a Borders or Barnes and Noble soon, to go with the Best Buy, Subway, Starbuck, Wal-mart, MacDonalds, Chilis, Burger King, Woolworths, KFC, Gap, Game...etc etc...

Barnes & Noble is a great bookshop, I hope we do get one.

Originally posted by nick2
Barnes & Noble is a great bookshop, I hope we do get one.

I agree, and I hope so too. My point is, why are our stores so poor, and American stores come in and steal the custom?

Originally posted by Snook
I agree, and I hope so too. My point is, why are our stores so poor, and American stores come in and steal the custom?

They're not all crappy, Waterstones is Ok, and there used to be a good bookshop on West Street, but thats about it I think in town.

I think American shops are more service/customer oriented.

Originally posted by nick2
They're not all crappy, Waterstones is Ok, and there used to be a good bookshop on West Street, but thats about it I think in town.

I think American shops are more service/customer oriented.

They still have English staff in them though, so I don't buy that one. And in fact I would bet that a local indie coffee shop would probably be offer a friendlier and more personal service.

I think the Yank chains are just more ruthless in their business practices.

Global chains have far more buying power and source their materials far cheaper than local businesses. This allows them to boost their profit margins by keeping costs low but prices relatively high. Global chains can spend far more on marketing and advertising, to such an extent that they become household names while established local companies can barely afford to advertise in local papers. It's not as simple as choice, consumers can only choose between products/companies that they are aware of. This tips the scales in favour of large companies before you even consider the quality of the product.

There's a reason the coffee in Starbucks isn't so great, that's because it's cheap crap sold onto the consumer for a high price. Yes, consumers have the right to choose the product that they buy, even if that means buying an inferior product at inflated prices from a company that employs unethical policies. It would be helpful to have this information available so that consumers can use this in making their choices, strangely enough, this information is usually limited or non existant. Remember though that while you are giving your hard earned cash to global companies that don't give a **** about the city/environment/community that you live in, local companies that buy locally, invest locally, live locally and trade fairly are being undercut and driven out of business. Eventually this will lead to problems with local economic development and a city that looks the same as every other US city.

Originally posted by fyybj
Global chains have far more buying power and source their materials far cheaper than local businesses. This allows them to boost their profit margins by keeping costs low but prices relatively high. Global chains can spend far more on marketing and advertising, to such an extent that they become household names while established local companies can barely afford to advertise in local papers. It's not as simple as choice, consumers can only choose between products/companies that they are aware of. This tips the scales in favour of large companies before you even consider the quality of the product.

This is all true, but a company doesn't just start out as a global chain, it has to build to that, and it just seems American companies do it better than anyone else. Maybe it was a case of right place, right time, when in the 50's America became such a huge power, and companies so big and it has continued since then.

Starbucks seems like a strange case though, because they don't seem to offer a much better service, or a unique service. They don't spend huge amounts on advertising like other brands, and they have risen very quickly unlike many other global companies.... maybe a pact with the devil?

like coca cola, macdonalds and nike, starbucks sell lifestyle, not coffee. It's all in the hype.

Why go to a coffee shop? For coffee? for a break? to meet someone? to be seen? all these and more reasons.

The best places have no need of advertising as their customers do that for them. I still maintain that for a nice cup of coffee in unique atmosphere, cafe #9 is hard to beat.

Never been to Starbucks, but I get the idea that they are all the same - which kinda turns me off.

And when I worked in the City Centre, I was a regular at Zoobies - it's not the cheapest, but in town it's my preferred coffee stop because of the lovely people that run it and stunning location (and an art gallery next door).

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
like coca cola, macdonalds and nike, starbucks sell lifestyle, not coffee. It's all in the hype.

Why go to a coffee shop? For coffee? for a break? to meet someone? to be seen? all these and more reasons.

The best places have no need of advertising as their customers do that for them. I still maintain that for a nice cup of coffee in unique atmosphere, cafe #9 is hard to beat.

Never been to Starbucks, but I get the idea that they are all the same - which kinda turns me off.

And when I worked in the City Centre, I was a regular at Zoobies - it's not the cheapest, but in town it's my preferred coffee stop because of the lovely people that run it and stunning location (and an art gallery next door).

Definitely have to agree. In London there's often no alternative to Starf*cks if you want a coffee, so I've been in a fair few. I always thought it was a shame that we didn't have one, status wise, but they've got no atmosphere. (And there's the whole corporate poop too).

For nice people, nice atmosphere, and stunning surroundings (not to mention good value and properly nice food/drinks), the Blue Moon is always my first choice. Zoobies is good for takeaways. if you're up Broomhill way, Vittles is always the no 1.

Never catch me in one of those airless chains while I have a choice.

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=2170

Good reading.

According to today's star, Starbucks didnt even have permission to open its store in Sheffield city centre!! How could they have done it without permission?????:loopy:

It's a common practise unfortunately.

Originally posted by Sony
2 new starbucks are planned folks, and I'll give you one guess where they'll be: One on Division street planned to open in January 2005 and another one on Ecclesall Rd planned for April 2005 or sooner.
Good news or bad news?? Good news for me!!:clap:
More coffee breath, oh woe !

Yes I have to agree with you about Cafe #9 - definitely the best coffee shop with the mostest, most bohemian and friendliest laid back atmosphere in Sheffield - and on my doorstep ! I believe its history is that it was the first coffee shop in Sheffield and it plays most excellent background music - classic stuff from 60s and 70s.

Does anyone know more about its history/owners/characters ?

Yes while I agree choice is great - I have been thinking about those big global companies and whether/if they actually offer us anything good for ourselves or the environment - and is it all just a big exploitative global US imperialist big business capitalist pact with the devil scheme ? E.g. fast fatty and obese causing food, teeth-rotting acid drink, exploitative poor coffee, un-biodegradable detergents, undegradable trainers bad for your feet, overpriced clothes made in sweat shops etc,etc. ...

Originally posted by Patrick2000


Yes while I agree choice is great - I have been thinking about those big global companies and whether/if they actually offer us anything good for ourselves or the environment - and is it all just a big exploitative global US imperialist big business capitalist pact with the devil scheme ? E.g. fast fatty and obese causing food, teeth-rotting acid drink, exploitative poor coffee, un-biodegradable detergents, undegradable trainers bad for your feet, overpriced clothes made in sweat shops etc,etc. ...

You should find http://www.corpwatch.org of interest then. ;)

Where is Cafe #9 by the way?

I went in the Starbucks the other day, ive never been in one before, Its kinda nice inside actually. I was expecting it to be a bland corporate hole that people tend to project it as..

It seems to carry on the edwardian stylings from the outside on the inside, and they sell caramel waffles for 60p and they have cinnamon everywhere.

Dont like coffee though, so I think i'll just be buying the Waffles

Originally posted by Sony
According to today's star, Starbucks didnt even have permission to open its store in Sheffield city centre!! How could they have done it without permission?????:loopy:


Someone tried to tell me about this the other day but they didn't make much sense, do you have any more details?

I love the Rocky Road cake - chocolate and marshmallows - yummy combination! :P :). However, we don't have many Starbucks nearby to us!

Alex

fyybj thanks for the link.

Yes Cafe #9 is in Nether Edge, beside the post office on Nether Edge Road. If the weathe ris nice it also has outdoor "cafe" type seating. I think its open most days - sometimes even sundays -depending on the whim of the owner.

Yes its a really good cool cafe I would highly recommend - one of Nether Edges best kept secrets .. maybe not any more

We now have a coffee shop in Bradway too called S17, and it aint bad!

Went down to the city centre Starbucks the other day for the first time...

Absolutely class, a really great venue for meetings & relaxing with friends.

The back room's especially good, and I like the art on the wall facing the door.

Shame about the Starbucks price list though...

I wonder if this will be introduced to Starbucks here?

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_world_business/view/111795/1/.html

I have got todays Telegraph and it looks as though a 2nd Star Bucks is going to open on Division Street.

I don't believe they do make a profit on all their outlets. Some operate at a loss, just to make sure their brand is ubiquitous. If anyone actually welcomes this, powerless as we are to stop it, why the hell do we need one? There are tons of lovely little coffee places in Sheff.

I suppose its better than having a double shop unit lying empty.

Originally posted by flamingdog
I don't believe they do make a profit on all their outlets. Some operate at a loss, just to make sure their brand is ubiquitous. If anyone actually welcomes this, powerless as we are to stop it, why the hell do we need one? There are tons of lovely little coffee places in Sheff.

Same as I always say - they meet a need amongst customers.

Starbucks offer what a lot of brands offer - consistency of approach and quality. They offer a 'no brainer' experience. There's none of the faff of finding out that a 'little coffee place' serves stuff that may be ecologically sound but tastes like ground acorns after they've been passed through the intestinal tract of a pig.

there's a saying in IT - nowadays less true but years ago was VERY true - no one got fired for buying IBM. Same with Starbucks - it's consistent product, consistent price, consistent ambience.

If you liek it, great. If you don't, go elsewhere.

Joe

Couldn't you apply all the same principles to other big chains though - Subway is probably the Starbucks of the sandwich world, there are locally run independent sandwich shops we can go to, McDonalds are everywhere, yet there are locally run fast food establishments too, and then in the pub world there is Wetherspoons everywhere, yet there are still nice little independent pubs around.

At the end of the day these big chains will spring up everywhere, and people will use them, as they know exactly what they will get, feel safe with the corporate experience, and in some cases because it is cheaper.

However the independent, locally run coffee shops, cafes, takeways and pubs still flourish because they offer something special.

dont wanna sound old fashioned but have you tried real coffee like pollards (cafe and shop). starbacks reminds me of subway? is that usa c*** aswell?

Originally posted by NatalieSheff
dont wanna sound old fashioned but have you tried real coffee like pollards (cafe and shop). starbacks reminds me of subway? is that usa c*** aswell?

subway is an american product and its c*** here as well.

im not a huge fan of starbucks, and luckily where i live theres only a handful of them and none near my home or work so i never go in. but if i do stop in, its for a creme frapichino, and they are the only ones who make them without coffee.

and yeah its a good idea to boycott them though.. they really arent that great and your independant coffee shop will make you a better cup of coffee than some t*** at starbucks.

Originally posted by JoePritchard
Same as I always say - they meet a need amongst customers.

Starbucks offer what a lot of brands offer - consistency of approach and quality. They offer a 'no brainer' experience. There's none of the faff of finding out that a 'little coffee place' serves stuff that may be ecologically sound but tastes like ground acorns after they've been passed through the intestinal tract of a pig.

there's a saying in IT - nowadays less true but years ago was VERY true - no one got fired for buying IBM. Same with Starbucks - it's consistent product, consistent price, consistent ambience.

If you liek it, great. If you don't, go elsewhere.

Joe


Thats a spot on post! Looks at the situation objectively. Big brand americanised chains offer consistancy but society is diverse enough to warrant demand for smaller independent alternatives offering more choice. People get carried away going on about boycotting / protesting etc. Simply make your choice and go elsewhere without blowing it all out of proportion!!

Originally posted by NatalieSheff
dont wanna sound old fashioned but have you tried real coffee like pollards (cafe and shop). starbacks reminds me of subway? is that usa c*** aswell?

Over the years I've tried all sorts of coffee in all sorts of places.

I still think the best I've had was served up in a small coffee bar in Florence where I struggled with my Italian and also had Expresso that wired me for days.

Pollards does good stuff - the smell from there is always amazing.

The bottom line for me is always the same - in this city there are lots of places to drink coffee. Spend your money in the one that suits you, your pocket and whatever lifestyle associations (if any) suit you best.

If you're anti-US corporations then don't go to Starbucks. Your choice.

Joe

That coffee stuff - I remember it starting to become a fashion to drink it (during the early sixties). It's an American fad and it'll never catch on.
Make mine a double skinny latte mocha with nobs on will ya. Doh!

I'll have a tall mocha frappuccino please (I'm a *$ fan from way back)

Found a funny website about a month ago - a bunch of anti-starbucks protesters discovered that you can do something very amusing with the starbucks disposable cups...

http://www.starbuckscoffee.co.uk/

Costa Coffee above Waterstones in Orchard Square is good, you can sit and read the books without paying for them and have a coffee.

The window was put through the other day and someone had sent them a message on a brick "Go back to America". Who should go back to America? All the staff are English, the Manager is English, maybe they meant the window or the brick that was used:heyhey:

i think starbucks is just quite awful. Sheffield does need new business and investment but by selling out to starbucks and subway etc, its only going to appeal to people who feel fulfilled by buying into that empty lifestyle promoted by these corporate fools. clearly it works but its not for me. the coffee in starbucks is foul and expensive. give me places with real character like cafe ceres in hunters bar. nonna has good coffee too but the staff are a bit arsey. its a shame that sheffield needs places like starbucks to feel like its on the way to becoming some modern european city, just like everywhere else. it does need development, granted, but needs to cherish the individuality of the place and not aspire to be a vapid, endless stream of chains like leeds.
is there really going to be a starbucks on ecclesall road too? i really hope not.

Originally posted by tom_common

is there really going to be a starbucks on ecclesall road too? i really hope not.

It would be more pleasant than Nonnas.

Originally posted by nick2
It would be more pleasant than Nonnas.
Well if you don't like it, don't go .:|

If people have actually read about starbucks and know what they are about and what they have done, and still go, then I really think you are nothing but the mere spawn of Thatcher.

And you delight in sitting in a generic environment drinking sh@t coffee and paying too much money for the "privilege".

Originally posted by Tony
Well if you don't like it, don't go .:|

When I meet friend of mine she finds it highly amusing to ask me to meet her in there, she loves the place, to be fair whenever I take her out for a drink in town I take her to the Dove And Rainbow for the same reason.

Originally posted by duffman
The window was put through the other day and someone had sent them a message on a brick "Go back to America". Who should go back to America? All the staff are English, the Manager is English, maybe they meant the window or the brick that was used:heyhey:

The compay is American. I think that is who they meant to target.

I think he was being sarcastic Disco Cat unless you were being even more ironic with your answer ?

In any case, irrespective of whether you like Starbucks or not, it is totally irresponsible and disgusting to do something like that if it's true. There's loads of American type fast food chains around Sheffield (Burger King, MacDonalds, Subway etc.). So what's so special about Starbucks ? I'm not condoning you should start smashing there windows, just to let people choose for themselves.

If it is true then this is just terrorist type activity which every civilised human being abhors, and which every decent person disapproves of whatever there beliefs.

Originally posted by tom_common
i think starbucks is just quite awful. Sheffield does need new business and investment but by selling out to starbucks and subway etc, its only going to appeal to people who feel fulfilled by buying into that empty lifestyle promoted by these corporate fools. clearly it works but its not for me. the coffee in starbucks is foul and expensive. give me places with real character like cafe ceres in hunters bar. nonna has good coffee too but the staff are a bit arsey. its a shame that sheffield needs places like starbucks to feel like its on the way to becoming some modern european city, just like everywhere else. it does need development, granted, but needs to cherish the individuality of the place and not aspire to be a vapid, endless stream of chains like leeds.
is there really going to be a starbucks on ecclesall road too? i really hope not.

Phew thank God for the individuality of Cafe #9 then in Nether Edge and on my door step ...

Originally posted by Patrick2000
Phew thank God for the individuality of Cafe #9 then in Nether Edge and on my door step ...

See... I find that place as disturbing as Starbucks... they are just selling a different lifestyle. There are some very dodgy people in there.

Originally posted by Snook
See... I find that place as disturbing as Starbucks... they are just selling a different lifestyle. There are some very dodgy people in there.

I'm sad that you think that Snook - are you suspicious of everyone/everyplace you meet ? Why do you think the cafe is dodgey ? In that case you are a very sad sad person ... and hey - watch out its a dangerous planet out there and you cant get off it alive !

If it is true then this is just terrorist type activity which every civilised human being abhors, and which every decent person disapproves of whatever there beliefs.


Errr....no. I'm a decent human being and I consider this a legitimate protest agianst an abhorent company.

One mans terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Originally posted by Jim
Errr....no. I'm a decent human being and I consider this a legitimate protest agianst an abhorent company.

One mans terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Acts of violence and vandalism that risk killing people is not a legitimate protest.

Originally posted by Patrick2000
I'm sad that you think that Snook - are you suspicious of everyone/everyplace you meet ? Why do you think the cafe is dodgey ? In that case you are a very sad sad person ... and hey - watch out its a dangerous planet out there and you cant get off it alive !

I say it because of the way many people talk about the place and my experiences of being in there.

I also say it because I personally know some of the very dodgy people that go in there everyday, and have had the misfortune to have dealings with them (probably the sort of people who think smashing windows is ok).

At the same time, I have some very good friends that go in there alot, and i'm not saying everyone who goes in there is dodgy, nor would i say that about Starbucks. :D

I'm sure it is very nice, but just like Starbucks it seems to be offering a lifestyle... so much so that someone who questions it is called 'a very sad sad person'. Which I think says it all.

I'm not against there being a Cafe #9 or a Starbucks... I just don't buy into either lifestyle because I choose not too. I don't have a problem with people that do... each to their own.

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
The compay is American. I think that is who they meant to target.

I do realise that, I just don't see the point of someone doing that no matter how much they don't want it there. It's here and here to stay, I don't like it but I don't go in or smash windows.

Originally posted by duffman
I do realise that, I just don't see the point of someone doing that no matter how much they don't want it there. It's here and here to stay, I don't like it but I don't go in or smash windows.


The city centre branch may be here to stay but if a branch in the heart of the city centre with all that CCTV isn't safe from vandalism, sorry terrorism, what hope is their for franchise opening on Eccy road or even Devonshire green and not being targeted by Al-Qaeda?

(probably the sort of people who think smashing windows is ok).

In the context of my comment, that's a pretty imbecilic thing to say. If someone believes that smashing windows is a legitimate form of protest, why on earth would they drink coffee there?:loopy:

cafe 9 is great! dodgy people...hmm can't say i have seen any myself but it depends on your definition of dodgy i suppose.

..."Errr....no. I'm a decent human being and I consider this a legitimate protest agianst an abhorent company.

One mans terrorist is another man's freedom fighter...."

Try chucking the brick in the window whilst your stood next to a copper, then see if it's legitimate !

Ghandi was a freedom fighter using no violent terrorist tactics. Bin Laden does. Who do you think gets furthest in there goals and respect from peace loving people.

Snook ok I agree with your live and let live - but I dont know why you cast aspersions on the very good Cafe #9 - I go in htere a bit and I am not a dodgy person and i have never met nor had dodgy dealings with dodgy people in there - it does a mean latte to revive one after the night before, plays great music and in my opinion is miles better than Starbucks and more atmospheric.

Snook if you font want to voice your concerns about it in public please send me a private message I'm intrigued - if it is dodgy as you think then I should be warned as I am an innocent going in there ... :-)

Originally posted by Patrick2000
Snook ok I agree with your live and let live - but I dont know why you cast aspersions on the very good Cafe #9 - I go in htere a bit and I am not a dodgy person and i have never met nor had dodgy dealings with dodgy people in there - it does a mean latte to revive one after the night before, plays great music and in my opinion is miles better than Starbucks and more atmospheric.

Snook if you font want to voice your concerns about it in public please send me a private message I'm intrigued - if it is dodgy as you think then I should be warned as I am an innocent going in there ... :-)

Is there a reason I should want to voice my view in public? If you are not the owner of the cafe, then it must be some veiled threat and I feel you are rather proving my point about some of the people who go in there alot.

As I said, I don't believe that everyone who goes in their is dodgy, and I don't wish to name people and events as I don't think it's fair.

This thread is about Starbucks and I believe there are strong similarities between the two places... although the lifestyle they offer are radically different.

If you get what you want from the place, then god bless you, but there is no reason to expect others to agree with you and I am not going to continue an argument on a thread.

That is all I have to say about that. :D

Originally posted by Patrick2000
Snook ok I agree with your live and let live - but I dont know why you cast aspersions on the very good Cafe #9 - I go in htere a bit and I am not a dodgy person and i have never met nor had dodgy dealings with dodgy people in there - it does a mean latte to revive one after the night before, plays great music and in my opinion is miles better than Starbucks and more atmospheric.

Snook if you font want to voice your concerns about it in public please send me a private message I'm intrigued - if it is dodgy as you think then I should be warned as I am an innocent going in there ... :-)

Interesting....it's OK to cast aspersions on a large public corporation in a public forum but not state an opinion of a smaller company.

Whilst not having been a customer of Cafe #9, and admitting to occasionally imbibing a Starbucks, I appreciate that, like most large corportions, Starbucks has some questionable 'back end' policies.

However, it's always been open season against Starbucks on here. Why shouldn't concerns be raised against other venues, if those concerns can be backed up?

Oh yes.....it's small and 'trendy' not large and corporate.

But as I keep saying - horses for courses!

Joe

At the risk of being alienated before my first column finishes loading, I’m going to stick my neck out here and state, for the record, that I do not hate Starbucks. Wait, wait. Put down that hot tar! Put away the feathers! At least let me explain before you run me out of town.

What’s wrong with Starbucks?

Just to dispel any misconceptions, I do not buy coffee beans from Starbucks. I don’t even buy beverages there, at least not willingly. At one point in my life, I did. But believe it or not, I have a fairly astute palate and, like most coffee geeks, I find Starbucks to be uniformly over-roasted coffee. Moreover, the vast scale of the Starbucks empire does not lend itself to coffee freshness. After all, with thousands of outlets scattered throughout the world just how long do you think the average Starbucks bean sits around before it sees the grinder?

And while we’re on the subject of the enormous scope of Starbucks, can you imagine how difficult it must be to keep all the stores staffed, let alone training staff to run the super expensive, high end machines? Hell, I pull a rubbish shot once in a while, and I measure my coffee on a gram scale. How about trying to explain why it’s important to wipe out the portafilter to a nineteen year old who’s trying to figure out how to break up with her boyfriend?

So there, in a nutshell, is what is wrong with Starbucks, at least from this geek’s point of view. It’s just too darned big for any kind of finesse as far as quality control is concerned. Now, I’m sure that there are individual Starbucks locations where the manager and staff really do care about the customers and the coffee being served. I was speaking to a non-geek friend of mine about this very dilemma and he stated most emphatically that the Starbucks that he and his wife patronise on a daily basis was a good one where the manager and staff really went out of their way to make good coffee for their customers. And you know what, if he and his wife are happy with their coffee, who am I to try and dissuade them? Especially when it’s so much easier to be a Starbucks lover than a Starbucks hater.

The Other Side

But enough about the bad stuff. For me, if there had never been a Starbucks I would have probably never become the coffee lover I am today. Because let’s face it, before Starbucks, coffee was that dreadful black muck in McDonalds. Before the Starbucks revolution, the sum total of my experience with coffee was large Styrofoam cups of that kind of junk (caution contents hot!), crammed full of enough milk and sugar to make it taste like something I could actually drink, and imbibed solely for the caffeinated jolt I thought might keep me awake through the next lecture or next essay. Drink coffee for pleasure? Yeah, sure, just as soon as I finish this tin foil sandwich. My sister once summed up the situation perfectly, coffee always tasted angry.

The one variation in my life with coffee B.S. (Before Starbucks) was a trip to Rome. In Rome I first experienced coffee with flavour instead of anger. Something about the Italian coffee appealed to my sense of cuisine. Even when the Italians did put milk in the coffee it was this warm silky liquid that added to the flavour of the coffee rather than just diluting it to make it drinkable. That, unfortunately, was a very short three weeks and then it was back home to the paint remover I always remembered as coffee.

I really can’t remember when I had my first Starbucks coffee. But I do remember that it didn’t have that acrid, burnt flavour that I had always associated with coffee. It seems funny to say now that Starbucks didn’t have a burnt flavour, but compared to the stuff that bubbled away in a percolator for hours at a time, or sat in a glass carafe on a burner waiting to be served, it makes sense. I don’t want to give Starbucks too much credit since there were certainly other coffee places springing up at the time. But Starbucks was everywhere. And in the few places there wasn’t a Starbucks, they were going to open one next month! Starbucks is even a romantic memory for me. I remember a first date with my long-term girlfriend in the Starbucks in Manchester, just off King Street on a rainy day after Christmas and buying two “Winter Magic” tumblers that changed colors when you put the hot liquid in.

Given our history together, it seems obvious that when I decided I wanted my own machine to make espresso at home, I would turn to my old buddy Starbucks. After all, where else could you buy a real espresso machine? Over the internet? I think that I still had a 28.8K modem. So, a £150 lighter, I left my local Starbucks with a shiny new silver “Barista” espresso machine (which was, in fact, a rebranded Saeco machine) complete with a videotape that promised to reveal the secrets of the coffee world. I watched the video. I fiddled with the machine. I made some good beverages. I made some real junk.

The Barista machine was a champion, making an average of two espresso based drinks every day for four years without a hitch. The one small problem that we encountered, when a small screw stop in the steam knob assembly backed out, was easily solved with a call to the 0800 number printed right on the water reservoir. But we discovered early on that the ground Starbucks coffee got a little stale after a few days. A relative bought us a coffee grinder and that helped. But it was the beginning of the end of my love affair with Starbucks. Because I started to question the quality of the coffee I made, and the quality of the coffee that was served to me. I even remember thinking more than once, “I make better than this at home.”

So what did Starbucks ever do for me?

At this stage in my coffee life, I generally avoid buying beverages at Starbucks. I mean, I now have a fully automatic espresso machine at home now that creates a freshly ground espresso in about 20 seconds; I roast my own beans. I know what a quality coffee beverage tastes like. But still, every once in a while you’re stuck in the airport and the choice is Starbucks or some of that throwback drip brewed junk at McDonald. And for business acumen alone, you have to acknowledge the magnitude of what Starbucks has done in a relatively short period of time. They have built one of the most recognisable corporate identities in the world.

But I’ve become very philosophical about just what Starbucks did for me and countless other beanophiles like me who didn’t grow up in Italy. It introduced the concept that coffee could be more than the stuff in that huge stainless steel vat that tasted like charcoal briquettes steeped in hot water. It taught us that coffee was more than just something your dad drank at breakfast. It introduced the European concept of a café, somewhere you could sit, have something to drink and talk to a friend. Starbucks imported great little gadgets for making coffee and stamped their name on them. They opened the door in a very real way to many people who would never have become coffee lovers. And for that gift, the gift of coffee, I personally say, “Thank you.”

Thats one hell of a first post.

you really really really like em eh?;)

Apologies - I didn't mean to take up loads of space (or your time reading it) but I wanted to try and explain, in detail, why I think Starbucks is not as abhorrent as it is often made out.

I don't "really really really like" Starbucks I just "really really really" like coffee!!

But you don’t raise the concern that Starbucks huge buying power and brand name can out price smaller coffee shops that do sell decent coffee, so if you give Starbucks a free reign all that will be left will be Starbucks.

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
But you don’t raise the concern that Starbucks huge buying power and brand name can out price smaller coffee shops that do sell decent coffee, so if you give Starbucks a free reign all that will be left will be Starbucks.

Starbucks - the Tesco of the coffee world huh?

Starbucks certainly isn't abhorrent, but it does tend towards the bland at the first opportunity,

Luckily there are at least 2/3/4 coffee houses in Sheffield where you can enjoy the subtleties of quality Batista's rather than the homogenised pap that most people associate with as being a step up from Netscape!!!

Starbucks, as you rightly point out, do have massive buying power. But this is as a result of a successful business and brand. Is this a bad thing?
Whilst we all may have our own views about corporate giants and capitalism many of us agree that it makes our lives easier. The majority of the UK population buy their food from a supermarket. A supermarket- be it Tesco, M&S, Sainsburys or Asda all have buying power; it's how they can provide us with all the products we need for our Christmas Day lunch under one roof. Who wants to have to go to four different food outlets?

Take Starbucks in Tudor Square for example - it is now in direct competition with Zoobies in the Peace Gardens. Is this a bad thing? If Starbucks really does serve rubbish beverages then surely people will come to realise this and go elsewhere. The fate of Zoobies is assured because of its far superior range of sandwiches. The reality is that Starbucks beverages are OK. They're not amazing- but they're not junk either. To the thousands of people that Starbucks serves everyday their drinks really hit the spot. Otherwise why would they keep going back?

So Starbucks is a successful corporate giant- so is Tesco and Asda but none of us complain about them. Capitalism and corporate giants are here to stay, might as well get used to it.

Hi Jon,

No, the problem isn't competition, it's aggressive expansion. As has already been said on this thread, I think, Starbucks have a policy of clustering and cannibalism: opening lots of new outlets in the same area, to take customers from both independent outlets and their own branches. Then, when the independent outlets have closed down, starbucks close down their own loss-making branches, leaving just a couple of starbucks (or other corporate competitors)

I know that this might seem like a simple change; like the whole tesco versus local shopping thing. A move from lots of independents to one organisation. Progress. But it's not necessarily because they do it better, but because they do it bigger. After a while there is no choice: I can't shop at my local butchers and bakers now, because they have gone.

Plus there are the hidden costs of the whole population shopping at five places; tesco can set the prices for produce, paying producers very little; you have to drive to the supermarket, making car use and petrol consumption essential; vulnerable people who use community facilities can't access them because they've been surplanted by a big tesco a mile away.

Capitalism doesn't stop at choice; it doesn't let you keep anything back. With tesco and starbucks it's all or nothing.
Like privatisation or the expansion of out of town shopping developments, it's presented as a fait accompli, the easiest way, when in fact there are different ways of doing things that have people at the centre.

this is a conversation I have with a lot of people. Most of them are happy with their lives being a bit easier, and don't want to know. I don't know as much as you about coffee, and I realise that starbucks isn't the worst thing in the world: but I wish people would say no sometimes, and keep a bit of power for themselves.

Plus Cafe No 9 is super cool

Starbucks aggressive expansion policy is not admirable and questionably immoral but it's business. Starbucks Coffee Company have shareholders (like any major corporation) that they must make profit for. At the end of the day it all comes down to money whether it be in the pockets of shareholders, pockets of small business owners or us, the consumer.
How many of us can say the we would shop at our local butcher if he were selling a couple of fillet steaks for £7 and Tesco were selling them for £5.50. I know where my money would go.

I often find that small businesses are less inclined to innovate like the large corporations, either because they can't afford to or don't want to. Using Starbucks as an example- Gingerbread Lattes, Eggnog Lattes, Chocolate Mint Bliss, Gingerbread Men - all served with Christmas Cheer. I didn't see Zoobies doing a line of Christmas beverages. So why should they get my business and my hard-earned cash?

It's all about choice, product innovation and ultimately price. Aggressive expansion policy or just a good business plan?

Originally posted by JonJParr
Starbucks aggressive expansion policy is not admirable and questionably immoral but it's business. Starbucks Coffee Company have shareholders (like any major corporation) that they must make profit for. At the end of the day it all comes down to money whether it be in the pockets of shareholders, pockets of small business owners or us, the consumer.
How many of us can say the we would shop at our local butcher if he were selling a couple of fillet steaks for £7 and Tesco were selling them for £5.50. I know where my money would go.

I often find that small businesses are less inclined to innovate like the large corporations, either because they can't afford to or don't want to. Using Starbucks as an example- Gingerbread Lattes, Eggnog Lattes, Chocolate Mint Bliss, Gingerbread Men - all served with Christmas Cheer. I didn't see Zoobies doing a line of Christmas beverages. So why should they get my business and my hard-earned cash?

It's all about choice, product innovation and ultimately price. Aggressive expansion policy or just a good business plan?

**In awe** Give that man a cigar. He KNOWS what he's talking about.

Originally posted by JonJParr
It's all about choice, product innovation and ultimately price. Aggressive expansion policy or just a good business plan?

You admit in your first post Starbucks sells a sub standard product. What will the choice be when their aggressive expansion means that smaller venues selling decent coffee have to close leaving no choice but their sub standard coffee. You may be happy to walk past rows and rows of Starbucks smiling at their brilliant business plan whilst imaging all their satisfied shareholders, personally I’d prefer to drink a decent cup of coffee.

I think given their financial capabilities Zoobies is the most innovative business I’ve ever seen. Considering that that shop functions with an incomparably low budget compared to its multi national neighbour, and Zoobies has done it without breaking any planning laws. But the presence of places like Starbucks can only hampers and restrict such local businesses ambitions and abilities, something that I think is rather sad.

Originally posted by Disco_Cat


I think given their financial capabilities Zoobies is the most innovative business I’ve ever seen. Considering that that shop functions with an incomparably low budget compared to its multi national neighbour, and Zoobies has done it without breaking any planning laws. But the presence of places like Starbucks can only hampers and restrict such local businesses ambitions and abilities, something that I think is rather sad.

A business is either innovative within it's market place or it isn't. Innovation is ultimately comparative and is an ongoing process. Yes, Starbucks will have a bigger budget and that will help them implement the innovative ideas, but it won't necessarily help generate the ideas.

If Zoobies has bright people, their ability to innovate will be equivalent, but their ability to implement may be restricted.

That, people, is business. That's the market place. It's hard, but that does not mean that a company that can operate effectively in the market is necessarily immoral just because it's big.

How does the rpesence of Starbucks hamper and erstrict local business? Zoobies has competition - if a business can't compete then it doesn't deserve to survive. My own line of work is IT development - I now have to compete against people who can come in at a quarter of my rate from all over the world. I either innovate and compete or fall by the wayside.

And the same has to apply to any business.

Joe

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
You admit in your first post Starbucks sells a sub standard product.

Actually, I think I said that "I find Starbucks to be uniformly over-roasted coffee" and "I generally avoid buying beverages at Starbucks" because I have a fairly astute palate when it comes to coffee now.
Starbucks is in no way a "sub standard" product. Their beverages are produced using good quality beans. I notice the difference because the espresso beans I use have been freshly roasted and ground. When you bear in mind that espresso beans lose a lot of their flavour within three hours of being ground you can understand why, as a coffee geek, I choose to do this.
Did you know that Baristas at Starbucks have to pass examinations in coffee preparation before they're allowed to create beverages? I think that shows a willingness to try and keep the standard of the product high. How many other businesses can state that they do this?

Starbucks may have broken planning laws but the people of Sheffield have spoken. Starbucks is always busy! If the reason for your hatred of Starbucks is a sentiment to side with small businesses then you may be interested to know that Starbucks started out as a single coffee shop in Seattle in 1971. Surely you realise that a sound business plan has to incorporate a ruthless element?

Originally posted by JonJParr
Did you know that Baristas at Starbucks have to pass examinations in coffee preparation before they're allowed to create beverages? I think that shows a willingness to try and keep the standard of the product high. How many other businesses can state that they do this?
When I started work at McDonalds I had to pass a test in food hygiene, the test however consisted of copying answers from a sheet of paper. This experience has left me a little cynical to the realties of in house exams for such companies.

At the end of the day this is a debate which reveals a fundamental difference between people and their ethics and I suspect neither of us is going to change their opinions. You see a Starbucks on every street corner and view it as a triumph of free market economics that one company can dominate a sector and provide its shareholders (how many of them come from Sheffield?) with extra cash.

On the other hand I think it’s sad that that so many coffee growers are being exploited to provide people with their fancy sounding drinks while locally, independent business are loosing out to a company which they have no possibility of competing with.

Some people see this as the wonder of business. I see it as injustice. But then I guess that’s why I’ll never go in a starbucks.

Originally posted by Disco_Cat

Some people see this as the wonder of business. I see it as injustice. But then I guess that’s why I’ll never go in a starbucks.

Unfortunately, that's life these days.

The whole Starbucks vs the independant coffee vendor is just one small battle in the whole big corporations taking over the smaller, often better, independant retailer war.

Take a look at the thread about Subway on Eccy Rd. Hopefully, Eccy Rd will continue to deny access to the soulless bigger chains in favour of character of little man.

Originally posted by Miss
Take a look at the thread about Subway on Eccy Rd. Hopefully, Eccy Rd will continue to deny access to the soulless bigger chains in favour of character of little man.

Like Pizza Hut and KFC

I think London Road is the only area without a chain franchise ?

Originally posted by nick2
Like Tesco and Pizza Hut

Ok, so I forgot about those.

Still, rumour has it they told Maccy D's to get lost when they wanted to open in Berkley Precinct.

Originally posted by Miss
Ok, so I forgot about those.

Still, rumour has it they told Maccy D's to get lost when they wanted to open in Berkley Precinct.

Who is "they", the residents or the other bussinesses ?

Originally posted by nick2
Who is "they", the residents or the other bussinesses ?

Bit of both, methinks. For while there were petitions all over the place.

Disco cat, I'm with you all the way. You're right that people stand on different sides, and I think we're all bright enough to realise that posts on a forum aren't going to affect years of opinion/ideology.

The only problem is that our society is already built on the other side, on the logic of business. I spose there's no easy way to bring it back a little bit more towards the centre, towards people's lives, especially post thatcher and with the international organisations tilted as they are towards the dollar sign.

Just have to keep on working all our lives to buy things we don't need. Though it has to be said, that first post of Jon's read like a dream, really rather good sir. At least we can still argue about it.

Originally posted by tom_common
Disco cat, I'm with you all the way. You're right that people stand on different sides, and I think we're all bright enough to realise that posts on a forum aren't going to affect years of opinion/ideology.

The only problem is that our society is already built on the other side, on the logic of business. I spose there's no easy way to bring it back a little bit more towards the centre, towards people's lives, especially post thatcher and with the international organisations tilted as they are towards the dollar sign.

Just have to keep on working all our lives to buy things we don't need. Though it has to be said, that first post of Jon's read like a dream, really rather good sir. At least we can still argue about it.

Many thanks!

Looks like Starbucks are opening yet another cafe in Sheffield, in Broomhill - the third one (not including the ones in Meadowhall, however many there is).

http://libplugins.sheffield.gov.uk/planning/details.asp?Id=18422&Typ=W

Starbucks' policy is to identify an area with a succesfull coffee shop, and open 3 or 4 of their own stoors in the nearby area to completely saturate the market. Often, they operate at a loss, but remain this way until the rival stoor (often an independent trader) is forced to close due to loss of earnings.

Starbucks then closes it's least succesfull stoors in the area, but ensures it still dominates the market.

Read Naomi Kleins 'No Logo' or 'Fast Food Nation' for more information on Starbucks.

Looks like Starbucks are opening yet another cafe in Sheffield, in Broomhill - the third one (not including the ones in Meadowhall, however many there is).

This is actually directly over the road from Weston Park museum not actually in Broomhill itself. There are no other shops in that area at all.

An application was withdrawn to make this building an A3 (food and drink) purposes in 2000

http://www2.sheffield.gov.uk/townhall/Committee_Secretariat/Planning_and_Highways_Boards/City_Centre_Planning/Minutes/20001023.htm

but planning was given last october:

http://sccplugins.sheffield.gov.uk/press/news/aRelease.asp?akey=2370&Mon=01/10/2004

Cllr Alan Law, Chairman of the City Centre and East Planning and Highways Board said: “I expect this new café will be very useful for visitors and staff to both the hospitals and the Weston Park Museum when it reopens next year. Having more local facilities will enhance the area.”

So much for "local facilities" - fed up with cities all looking the same. Why couldn't some local company open up there and offer visitors something a bit different rather than the same coffee they'd drink in Seattle or Singapore?

One side effect of Starbucks opening is that landlords will use this as an excuse to push up rents to neighbouring shop premises. They do this on the basis that the immediate area is "on the up" and will cite the high rents that Starbucks are prepared to pay as justification. This has adlready started to happen on Division Street.

The new St Pauls Place development will also have a Starbucks on the retail ground level, it seems like the city centre is becoming saturated with Starbucks:loopy:

....................................

By the time we are old coffee will be banned it can cause testicular cancer.

Originally posted by skyfitsboy
The new St Pauls Place development will also have a Starbucks on the retail ground level, it seems like the city centre is becoming saturated with Starbucks:loopy:

But are there realy enough customers to keep all these shops going, or is it a case of people will start buying coffee when there are loads of places available to buy it from ?

This thread seem so funny. So many of the posts are quite anti-Starbucks. No change, no big brands, evil corporations etc etc.

Yet all over the Forum, people are protesting at the lack of choice, lack of brands, (Pret-a-manger), souless, choiceless, city centre situation.

Is it a case of damed either way?

Personally I believe in freedom and choice. So I will be purchasing a coffee from Starbucks and drinking it in the peace gardens with gusto. Wont stop me from drinking in Nona's when I'm up that way.

Here's interesting:

Pret-a-manger is a big part of The McDonald's Corporation's portfolio.

and Starbucks was named after a character in an old science fiction series called 'Battlestar Galactica'.

It's a funny old world.

Originally posted by Deavon
Pret-a-manger is a big part of The McDonald's Corporation's portfolio.

You're right that Pret is part of the McDonald's Corporation however, it's not really a "big" part. McDonald's own a 33% share of Pret and do not receive voting rights or have any influence as to the direction of the company.
Historically, Pret was a small sandwich chain started by two budding entrepreneurs in London with a vision to providing good food for professionals. Due to Pret's success the decision was made to take the brand stateside- to New York. A costly venture, it was decided that in order to raise the capital required to fund the expansion they would sell a stake of their company to an investor - enter the McDonald's corporation. Pret was not amazingly successful in the US, certainly not as successful as in the UK.

More funny than people's hostility towards major brands are their changed views when the business becomes successful. Take Starbucks for example; a single coffee shop started in Seattle that grew and expanded into a multi-national corporation. Don't like their draconian expansion policy or their underpaid coffee growers? Such is the world of business - it happens everywhere and requires a certain amount of ruthlessness to make a venture successful. Why should Starbucks roll over to it's competitors just to give them a "fair crack"? They'd go out of business very quickly if that were the case and then where would we be? Complaining about a loss of jobs I should imagine (see Rover MG for further details). Take Pret as another example; we all thought it was great when it was small and run by two budding entrepreneurs. However, now they are successful businessmen and wear Armani suits we demonise their corporation for over-pricing their products, not using 'fresh' salad (a claim made by a self-confessed cynic) and being everywhere. We start to crack jokes at their brand name ("Is Pret short for pretentious?") or make unsubstantiated claims about coffee being the cause of testicular cancer. I wonder how long it will take for a Crayfish and Rocket sandwich to be linked to some form of cancer?

So where do we draw the line? When do we stop liking small business and start hating successful business? It seems someone somewhere always has a gripe about a large successful business - be it they're charging too much, they're not selling enough Fairtrade Bananas or paying their company directors (who put their own money at risk I might add) too much.

But then these people probably still stop for their 'cheap' bananas at Tesco, grab a Starbucks in the airport and demand value for money. I'll have an extra strong short shot of double standards to go please.

Originally posted by Deavon
and Starbucks was named after a character in an old science fiction series called 'Battlestar Galactica'.


Realy, even though the company was founded before Battlestar Galactica was aired ?

.................

Originally posted by skyfitsboy
The new St Pauls Place development will also have a Starbucks on the retail ground level, it seems like the city centre is becoming saturated with Starbucks:loopy:

Where did you hear this skyfitsboy?

Originally posted by nick2
Realy, even though the company was founded before Battlestar Galactica was aired ?

Oh dear. I'm so embarrassed about this. Looks like I fell for an 'urban myth' hook, line and sinker.

I have just been trawling the internet (which I should have done before posting that last 'fact'), and indeed Starbucks is not named after 'Star-buck' from Battlestar Galactica:

"The name 'Starbucks'
The coffee company was named after a character in the Herman Melville novel 'Moby Dick'."

From MagazineUSA.com

Oh the shame of it. Thank you nick2 for pointing out my naivety.

Originally posted by JonJParr
I'll have an extra strong short shot of double standards to go please.

I think one of the things you have to realise is that people have no problems with companies such as Starbucks and Pret when they are small because if they don't like them they can go else where.

I stopped of on Eccy road the other day for a bagel from what used to be a great little shop only to find the combined competition of a Subway and KFC right alongside it had finally put it out of business. I didn't want the same deep fried chicken I can have anywhere in the world, I wanted a nice bagel, served by a slightly eccentric lady.

Purely from a business point of view the way Starbucks have managed to dominate so many high streets across the globe is extremely impressive, but no matter how good or innovative independent cafes are they simply cannot compete with these giants and we see the result across the globe of whole areas were a Starbucks has become the only choice.

I think Sheffield is much richer as a city for it's wealth of independent cafes and I think it will be sad to see these replaced by a Starbucks on every street corner.

From a jobs point of view wouldn't you agree it would be better to have a succession of independent companies channeling their profits back into Sheffield, rather then a chain which will employ the same amount of minimum wage employees but with the bulk of the cash going out of the city.

Originally posted by Claire28
Where did you hear this skyfitsboy?

If you take a look at the virtual fly through of St Paul Place a new Starbucks is clearly visable in the new Millennium Square.

St Pauls Place fly-through (http://www.sheffield1.com/final_small.mov)

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
I think one of the things you have to realise is that people have no problems with companies such as Starbucks and Pret.....

How many people choose their sustinence based on who serves it to them? I can't believe that when you get hungry your mind automatically says, "Oh yes - must purchase some food from a small business. Now, which one has a crazy old woman who can serve me?"

Come off it Disco! We get a sandwich, bagel, toastie, or baguette to satisfy our hunger not our conscience .

Furthermore you seem to have an unrealistic view of small businesses. They are no less likely to pay their staff the minimum wage than their large corporation counterparts. Sounds like a way to put yourself out of business rapidly.

Every time I buy something I would say I make a conscious decision about where I buy it from. I'm loathed to buy a sandwich from subway on Division Street when I know there are 4-5 excellent sandwich shops up on West street that can make a nice sandwich and make me a decent coffee.

It's also a reason why I shop mainly at smaller shops spending more on local produce and organic stuff rather than large supermarkets which are also destroying the fabric of our towns and cities. Cheap prices means someone somewhere is producing it cheaply and cutting corners... (but that's another discussion)

Again these huge multinationals cause lots of problems, too many to go into. You have the fact the profits are taken back to HQ, the food is generally shipped in from a warehouse so local food businesses don't benefit from the cafe being there. They have huge economies of scale which means they can make a loss for a period of time while running other businesses to the ground. I also read they can see in real time how well each "barista" is doing in terms of coffees sold and whether they sell other items with the coffee. Those who don't sell these sundries are less likely to get overtime etc...

However at the end of the day it's consumer choice - some people here will embrace Starbucks, I'll choose somewhere else.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JonJParr
[B] I can't believe that when you get hungry your mind automatically says, "Oh yes - must purchase some food from a small business. Now, which one has a crazy old woman who can serve me?"

QUOTE]

Actually that was pretty much my thought pattern the other day.

I’ve think you be surprised just how many people do take ethical shopping seriously nowadays. A lot of my friends are vegetarian and when I’ve been out with them and their was only a meat option they have more then often gone hungry rather then compromise their principles.

Their are currently plenty of options in Sheffield were you can feed both your conscience and your hunger, the problem is chains such as Starbucks and subway are putting this at risk.

I’m not saying all small business are ethical far from it, (although Zoobies is an excellent example of how independent companies can be) but they do offer something unique which I prefer to chains that exist on the principle that you will have exactly the same sandwich in every city of the world.

I’m a big fan of variety and long may it continue in Sheffield

the problem with people in general is that they are thick as pig****. So they drink at Starbucks rather than a seriously good place like Moco. I would rather chew offf my own arm than drink at Starbucks.

Originally posted by higgins
the problem with people in general is that they are thick as pig****. So they drink at Starbucks rather than a seriously good place like Moco. I would rather chew offf my own arm than drink at Starbucks.

Surely that's just expressing a personal opinion? If you don't like the coffee at Starbucks, then don't drink it. Go to a coffee shop you do like. If you do happen to like the coffee at Starbucks, go ahead and buy a cup. Problem solved.

Originally posted by higgins
the problem with people in general is that they are thick as pig****. So they drink at Starbucks rather than a seriously good place like Moco. I would rather chew offf my own arm than drink at Starbucks.

It's so nice to see a supporter of freedom of choice be so understanding of other people's choices.

If someone chooses to drink coffee at Starbucks in preference to somewhere else, what's the problem?

I'm keen to see the evidence for the correlation between intelligence and where you drink coffee - but if taht's not possible please lay off labelling other forummers as stupid.

Joe

As I was walking down to work this morning (making sure I get those vital 20mins exercise!) I was thinking about this thread and how those of us who drank espresso in a corporate giant such as Starbucks had all been branded as idiots. Given that the brander had advocated that we should all drink at Moco on West Street I was eager to share my one (and only) experience of that establishment.
It was about 2 months ago and I was desperately hungry and wanted to quaff a double espresso and a croissant to curb my hunger. Unlike others on this forum my mind process was "I'm hungry, where can I grab something quick?" and not "I'm hungry, where's the nearest small business / ethical outlet?" Moco was the first place I saw and dived in. I ordered a double espresso and a croissant filled with cheese and ham (yum!). They offered to heat the croissant for me and I kindly accepted. The first disaster was when the espresso arrived - there was little or no crema (a sign of fresh, well-brewed espresso) and it was served in a teacup (espresso should be served in a vessel that is small and has thick walls to insulate the drink and maintain the crema). The taste? Disgusting. It was junk. As I suspected it tasted stale and luke warm. I couldn't bring myself to finish it because it was so awful. Next, the croissant- I waited and waited and waited and waited and nothing materialised. After about 10-12 minutes of sitting there it must have dawned on them about my croissant. By that time, it was completely incinerated and we had to start the entire process of heating it - again. I left unimpressed and vowed never to give them any of my cash in the future.

This morning, I was running slightly late and wanted to grab a quick bite on the way into the office. I remembered Starbucks on Devonshire Green and even though I didn't want a drink (I'd already made myself three beautiful shots of Illy espresso this morning) I did want a panini. I walked in, ordered my panini "grilled to go" and was politely informed it would take exactly three minutes. I sat down and waited and waited and waited and waited and waited. I got up and asked if my panini was ready yet and was told it was burnt and they would have to start all over again. At least they had the decency to offer me a free beverage though (naturally I picked the most expensive).

Just goes to show that customer experience isn't at the forefront of most businesses these days..... :)

Originally posted by JonJParr
As I was walking down to work this morning (making sure I get those vital 20mins exercise!) I was thinking about this thread and how those of us who drank espresso in a corporate giant such as Starbucks had all been branded as idiots.


I know!

I must point out that although I have only been drinking at Starbucks in the last couple of months, I have been an idiot for much longer than that. Absolutely no correlation. :huh:


Seriously though I agree with JonJParr; each individual experience is going to be different depending on time of day, number of and ability of staff etc.

One of the best things about brands is that each business has to strive to achieve the set 'brand standards'. In that way at least you are guaranteed a benchmark. Also if that level of service is not provided you have easy means of recourse.

I would like to make a few points to you all who continue to air there negative views surrounding starbucks!
Firstly starbucks is a choice if you dont like it you dont go in!
Thousands of people call into a store in the uk every day to drink what is a fine quality beverage, starbucks could not have grown so rapidly serving rubbish.
Many of you seem focused on the negatives but what about the positives? new jobs , new investment , support for local charity
And why all this moaning about there being 2 or 3 stores in sheffield , there are 2 costa coffee shops within 5 mins walking of each other in the city centre but i never see them mentioned!
Pick up a leaflet in store and you will find they pay more for there coffee that any1 else , they have dedicated farmers and only want the best quality , and are willing to pay a premium in order to get it , suppliers are looked after and paid a fair price.
Everyone has there own taste but you really should stop knocking something you dont understand , particually those thinking the name was derived from battlestar gallactica! I suggest you look it up!

Originally posted by sheffstar01
And why all this moaning about there being 2 or 3 stores in sheffield , there are 2 costa coffee shops within 5 mins walking of each other in the city centre but i never see them mentioned!

Manchester has NINE within a five mile radius. There must be something going for this chain if it can have a branch within five minutes walking distance of another.

I agree with JonJParr and SheffStar01.

Starbucks, contrary to what Klein, Mobiot and their colleagues say, have never practised a cannibalisation strategy - they can be accused of aggressive market penetration strategies, but as has been well discussed by Jon and others, this is the nature of the world we live in and to hope for anything else is naive.

Francis Fukuyama, JK Galbraith and to a lesser extent, Will Hutton, have been setting down challenges to our global economic leaders in government and industry - Global capitalism is finding itself under increasing scrutiny and many globalisied brands need to be held up to the proverbial stoplight. However, Starbusks is not one of them!

Personally, I would choose Starbuck over a local shop. They have the power to change the way commodity and futures markets work in coffee and in fact do. They pay at least $1.20 per pound of coffee bought (Fair Trade price $1.26), in comparison to the market average of $0.55-$0.70 (fiscal year 2003). However, unlike Fair Trade, which is primarily concerned with human rights, Starbucks is concerned with the environmental impact of its activities in the bean belt (the coffee crowing regions of the world) as well.

When you buy Starbucks Coffee, you are ensuring sustainable farming practises are being developed, as well as the education of children and women. This ensures a future for growing regions (as there is a reported potential deficit in gourmet grade Arabica bean supply which increases the potential of those living in absolute poverty in the bean belt and beyond) and a future that is fairer and more sustainable.

If you don't like Starbucks as you find their coffee not to your likely, then fine. If you don't like Starbucks on ideological/political grounds, then although I disagree, that's your call.

However, for those complaining about the small business going out of business, then please don’t. The bigger picture is potentially more significant than the micro implications.

Starbucks are an example to what global brands can achieve (and they are only at the beginning of their journey) and a bench mark to the coffee growing industry

who are all these new users whose first post is a glowing recommendation of Starbucks??? Hmmmm............

:suspect: :suspect: :suspect:

It is interesting to have such knowledgeable advocates of Starbucks join the Forum, just a couple o questions however if Starbucks offers such a great deal to it’s farmers why does it not go for fair-trade status? oooh I remember it’s because their trying to save the environment, so what environmental charities support them? If star bucks are doing so much to save the planet organisations must be curing up to thank them
Originally posted by SiApps

However, for those complaining about the small business going out of business, then please don’t. The bigger picture is potentially more significant than the micro implications.



My real issue comes with this comment however. The bigger picture, more money for star bucks may be more important to you in the long term. But for the people whose livelihoods are destroyed by star bucks aggressive marketing the ‘micro implications’ are actually very important.

Fair Trade was set up by CAFOD, Christian Aid and Oxfam in 1992 concerned with international trade and the situation producers are forced into – often selling their commodity at a loss. It is Fair Trade’s principle aim to establish trade justice!

Recent press demonstrate that Fair Trade certification is not the only option. The two links at the bottom of the page will begin to flesh out this issue.

The reason Starbucks does not provide 100% Fair Trade certified beans is because the certification process takes time, and is not concerned about the environmental impact of coffee growing. Starbucks aims to work with all stakeholders across the supply chain to encourage sustainability.

Starbucks Bensa Ware, Ethiopia campaign is a good illustration of this. The campaign built a reservoir, piping and wells and led to the building of the High School Daye. This school educates over 400 children and it actively encourages the education of women (important for the sustainable development agenda).

This campaign (a long with similar projects in Central and South America) was not only is good for the local community, but also helps to secure a good standard of bean supply for Starbucks in the future. I realise that it could be argued that Starbucks are not being 100% altruistic in their motives here, but surely the motive to secure bean supply whilst ensuring the social/human rights and environmental, as well as economic sustainability of a commercial organisation is something we should be encouraging all organisations to do.

It is unfortunate that in a globalised economy people fall by the way side, and it’s not just the little people who do – MG Rovers recent demise highlights this. However, why is the desire to see not only the 1.2 bn people living on less $1 per day, but also see the $4bn, approximately 2/3 of our global population, who live on less than $2 a day have an increase in their living standards a bad thing?

I realise I sound like am saying that the market economy is the saviour to the worlds development problems – this is far from my perspective. Capitalism is good at generating wealth and, if run ethically, can help alleviate the plight of the worlds poor.

Starbucks isn’t perfect, and I’m sure you could find examples of less than exemplary behaviour. Nevertheless, it is trying to create an ideal to help those it affects across its operations to live a fairer life.

What I am advocating is difficult to do justice in this forum. For those of you who are interested then “The Fortune at the Bottom of the Pyramid – Eradicating Poverty through Profits” by C.K. Prahalad, as well as “Good Business” by Hilton and Gibbons are a good place to start. Globalegacy are also a useful resource.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1284479,00.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;sessionid=2GBZODCHUQ0GDQFIQMFSM54AVCBQ0 JVC?xml=/news/2004/11/27/weth27.xml&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=26808

Another very interesting and informative post. The forum is very lucky to have such a well versed advocate of Starbucks as a member.

I’m a little bit bemused as to the links you provided however. The Telegraph supports the argument that certain companies such as Starbucks have tried to market their coffee as ethical in the hope of this being seen as a concession to fair trade, when in reality because these companies do not offer a guaranteed and fixed price a cornerstone of the fair trade principle.

Although the below paragraph from your source is aimed at a different company it could also apply to Starbucks,

"He said he was concerned that marketing a coffee as ethical or sustainable rather than specifically Fairtrade would confuse shoppers.
"I can't see the point of a label that says something has been produced in ethical conditions – that's what you should expect from any product."
As a result, consumers might assume that another product not marketed as ethical was "damaging to the environment or produced by child labour and so on".
He took a swipe at the Rainforest Alliance, which unlike Fairtrade does not guarantee farmers a minimum price, saying: "It doesn't address economic sustainability."


The issue of fair trade is a very complex one and it is not merely as simple as fair trade companies pay more for their coffee, as you pointed out Starbucks pays more, however the crux comes down to conditions of pay and a fixed price.

However if we keep this debate specific to Sheffield, once again you have not been able to address the concern many of us have ie that Starbucks are bankrupting independent Sheffield businesses and this is to the detriment of the local community. However your source does address this point:

"The growth of multinationals is just one aspect of globalisation, and the homogeneity it brings is regrettable."

I couldn’t agree with you more on this point.

I guess my point with the Telegraph article was to highlight the arguments that are arising within the industry and between the Soil Association, Rain Forest Alliance and Fair Trade. The backlash of this is that Fair Trade does not cover the multitude of sins people believe it does. Other NGO's have a role to play in this arena and the Guardian article begins to communicate this.

The article does not criticise Starbucks as having confusing comms on its growing/sourcing guidelines, it merely states it makes available Fair Trade Coffee to consumers. There is an argument forming that implies a re-education of the consumer is required in order to avoid the confusion the article is reporting.

Of course I do agree in the principles of Fair Trade, but I also agree with what the organic and environmental NGO’s try to achieve and as of yet there is not a standard certification across these issues.

I was trying to point out before that, the local concerns are arguably outweighed by the bigger picture. The reality is though that Moca, the coffee shop in the Millennium Galleries and other local coffee shops will probably survive as long as they continue to innovate and compete.

An anecdotal example, but I hope it illustrates my point. Wardour Street in Soho has at least three Starbucks on it and it has not put The Movie Café (brilliant little café) out of business. I know there are examples of where the presence of Starbucks has led to the closure of small, local and independent coffee shops, but it could be argued in many cases that a better run local, small and independent coffee shop could have achieved the same goal. I realise this argument does not dissipate any fears. However, Starbucks do not have it as a corporate goal to put other coffee shops out of business, it nevertheless is sometimes an inevitable outcome.

I feel I should point out that I advise companies and brands on these kinds of issues. Although I have never been employed by Starbucks, I work heavily within the coffee industry, albeit for a consultancy. Hence my knowledge of the situation.

Illy and Lavazza, although not branded coffee shops, are beginning to develop equally as impressive CSR (Corporate Social Responsibility) programmes – potentially interesting for some of you.

Found this thread on a search. I think we only had one Starbucks at the time. The count is now up to four (that I know of) plus a Nero.

Any new opinions on starbucks?

I think the Yank chains are just more ruthless in their business practices.

Surely some of the big british ones are just as bad!

Found this thread on a search. I think we only had one Starbucks at the time. The count is now up to four (that I know of) plus a Nero.

Any new opinions on starbucks?

Uh, drink there if you like the coffee, don't, if you don't? Hardly rocket science is it? :)

we already have 2 satrbucks in the city centre and 2 in meadowhall too! or am I imagining this? x

bad coffee, bad for local businesses, good for america and it's economy

Make that 2 Neros.
One in Peace Gardens, 1 Eccy road.

But you don’t raise the concern that Starbucks huge buying power and brand name can out price smaller coffee shops that do sell decent coffee, so if you give Starbucks a free reign all that will be left will be Starbucks.

The reason this works is Starbucks sell what people want and the other local shops dont. Surely most people buy coffee from where they think it tastes best. Personally I dont buy from starbucks because I think coffee revolution serves better coffee, but if starbucks are driving other businesses other it must be because they are taking customers from those businesses. And surely this would only happen if these customers decide the starbucks coffee is better? So how can we blame starbucks. Surely the customers are to blame because if they didnt buy from starbucks they wouldnt stay in business.

The reason this works is Starbucks sell what people want and the other local shops dont. Surely most people buy coffee from where they think it tastes best. Personally I dont buy from starbucks because I think coffee revolution serves better coffee, but if starbucks are driving other businesses other it must be because they are taking customers from those businesses. And surely this would only happen if these customers decide the starbucks coffee is better? So how can we blame starbucks. Surely the customers are to blame because if they didnt buy from starbucks they wouldnt stay in business.


Or is it that small local businesses can not compete with the global marketing, advertising and publicity campaings and as a result are driven out of business. We will lose excellent coffee shops like revolution/taste/remos through the march of global capitalism. I only hope that many more people in Sheffield will continue to support the local businesses. There is a new cafe, with outdoor seating in the museum at Western Park. I hope they have upped their stakes to out-do Starbucks across the road.

Or is it that small local businesses can not compete with the global marketing, advertising and publicity campaings and as a result are driven out of business. We will lose excellent coffee shops like revolution/taste/remos through the march of global capitalism. I only hope that many more people in Sheffield will continue to support the local businesses. There is a new cafe, with outdoor seating in the museum at Western Park. I hope they have upped their stakes to out-do Starbucks across the road.

what marketing? I never see adverts for starbucks on tv or in magazines or at least it is so inneffective I dont recall any. Its just most people choose to buy from there. As for the musuem coffee shop apparently its even more expensive than the starbucks and not good quality food/drink according to posters on other threads.

Starbucks, costa, cafe ritazza, whats the difference apart from the logo? It unfortunate the planners in Sheffield council feel the city should be a clone of every other major town or city in the UK.

The museum coffee was ok, but seemed more expensive than starbucks

Once again, an old Starbucks thread resurfaces, and out come the gripers. We are living in 2006 - the era of coffee shops like Starbucks, Costa and Caffe Nero. Like it or not, Sheffield is undergoing what the likes of London, Birmingham, Leeds, Nottingham and Manchester went through 10 or more years earlier - a phenomenon called progress. It is doubtful that Leeds folks moan about the fact that Starbucks, Costa and Caffe Nero have between them around 18 outlets in Leeds City Centre, with 3 Pret a Mangers and around 14 Subways thrown in.

Once again, an old Starbucks thread resurfaces, and out come the gripers. We are living in 2006 - the era of coffee shops like Starbucks, Costa and Caffe Nero. Like it or not, Sheffield is undergoing what the likes of London, Birmingham, Leeds, Nottingham and Manchester went through 10 or more years earlier - a phenomenon called progress. It is doubtful that Leeds folks moan about the fact that Starbucks, Costa and Caffe Nero have between them around 18 outlets in Leeds City Centre, with 3 Pret a Mangers and around 14 Subways thrown in.

So your idea of progress is cloned high streets all with the same shops?

Starbucks, costa, cafe ritazza, whats the difference apart from the logo? It unfortunate the planners in Sheffield council feel the city should be a clone of every other major town or city in the UK.

But on what basis do you fell 'the planners' can turn down an application if it complies with planning policy? Surely the fact that any business wants to set up anywhere is based on their own premise that there are customers for their particular offering - whatever it is, be it clothing, furniture, coffee shops, whatever. There are many threads on here that bemoan Sheffield for not providing the same choice as places such as Leeds, Manchester, Nottingham, etc. Yes, these places all have similar shops, restaurants, coffee shops, etc but that is because it's what the customers want. But when anyone suggests that a large chain sets up in Sheffield, the critics are out.
And let's not forget, all the multiples started out as small retailers at one stage or another - FW Woolworth set up his shops in America before expanding across to the UK; Did Mr Marks and Mr Spencer decide one day to open fifty shops all at the same time? These small independant retailers expanded by doing what they did well; that's why they are what they are today.

So your idea of progress is cloned high streets all with the same shops?
It certainly isn't the sepia photographs of 100 years ago.

Its taken until now for Plymouth to catch up - Starbucks only opened last week :hihi:

It certainly isn't the sepia photographs of 100 years ago.

No-one is suggesting that, but it might be nice for town centres all to have some individuality, with independant shops, coffee houses and places to eat. You are missing the point here entirely. I want Sheffield town centre to be unique and not like every other town centre in the UK. This makes life very boring.

we have kingdom coffee at my place of work they work like fair trade and starbucks hot chocolate is powder based the best is liquid based thats from a exec of kingdon coffee

But on what basis do you fell 'the planners' can turn down an application if it complies with planning policy? Surely the fact that any business wants to set up anywhere is based on their own premise that there are customers for their particular offering - whatever it is, be it clothing, furniture, coffee shops, whatever.

my point was that its very sad to see such a great city stoop to the lowest common denominator and become just another English city. Walk through Derby, Nottingham, Newcastle and many other cities and you'll not see much of a difference these days.

My personal choice is always to avoid starbucks, macdonalds and their like but it won't be too long before thats all you'll get

my point was that its very sad to see such a great city stoop to the lowest common denominator and become just another English city. Walk through Derby, Nottingham, Newcastle and many other cities and you'll not see much of a difference these days.

My personal choice is always to avoid starbucks, macdonalds and their like but it won't be too long before thats all you'll get

Decent independent places always survive. They do everywhere else I have lived (including the big evil corporate america) and they will in sheffield. The rubbish ones will shut down.

e.g. despite 7 or however many subways we have on west street relish remains open and often has long queus at lunch. Why? Because they make really good sandwiches and people want to buy them. I cant see any evidence they are being driven under.

I don't like Starbucks. I admit, I've been a couple of times. I had some warm cider from the one in NYC, and I went the other day cos there's one under my dentists. Really ****** me off how they move in on the patch of a small family business.

Its taken until now for Plymouth to catch up - Starbucks only opened last week :hihi:

You make it sound like it's progress...

Once again, an old Starbucks thread resurfaces, and out come the gripers.


Sorry for resurrecting it but I had a starbucks for the first time a few weeks ago.

Highly recommend it.

Just a thought but I reckon most people go to Starbucks because they like it. Same for McDonalds.

Why on Earth should a corporation be charged with controlling the diets of children? When I was young that was my mum's job.

They don't go because they actively LIKE it, they go because they are THICK!!! They go because they don't care, they don't THINK. Thinking is too much like hard work now and god forbid every second counts and time is money blah blah blah. Britain, the 51st State, bring it on, feed on ****e and swill some more American crap down your necks! That's the kind of world we live in now - money money money!

devil woman youre bang out of order

so is there going to be a starbucks there or not??
There is already a Starbucks in Sheffield in Tudor Square, and has been there for quite a while

There is already a Starbucks in Sheffield in Tudor Square, and has been there for quite a while

This thread is 3 years old !

Dunno why you have revived this but i thought i'd add something to it. There's a Starbucks opening up in Orchard Square.

:loopy::loopy:Sorry about that, I realised after I sent it, I feel like a right twit, I never thought to look at the date, I certainly will now !.

:loopy::loopy:Sorry about that, I realised after I sent it, I feel like a right twit, I never thought to look at the date, I certainly will now !.

Don't worry - we've all done it!