Hello All

In my last statement from Halifax, they enclosed an unappealing, small, plain, drab looking little document that (in small print) said "Important news about your account".

Had I not been so bored I would've just thrown it with all the other rubbish I get through!

Still, reading it informed me that:

Bank charges for DD going over overdraft limit is going to RISE from £30 to £35

Bank charges for cheques going over overdraft limit is going to RISE from £30 to £35

Interests rates PAID are going to half for those earning less than £1000 and half again for those on less than £500 per month

and to TOP IT ALL......

cheques will now take SIX days to clear instead of the age old FOUR?!

I cant be MORE delighted that they are raising all their charges and reducing the service level offered at the moment.

Obviously this will, as blinkin usual have the greatest most harmful effect on us at the bottom of the income scale with more 'delicately balanced' finances!

I'm incredulous at their planning OR how its allowed to go on unchecked by, well, anyone.

This is NOT going to help people in financially difficult situations (33% of the country!) and has the potential to simply cause more financial and social difficulties.:loopy:

Does anyone know whether there are ANY other accounts I could open? Sadly I fear that ALL of the financial industry is the same....ethics and money? Never together!

Try Smile the online arm of The Co-op.

Charges increasing are just a sign of the times. Prices for everyday objects are increasing so why shouldn't charges? Not that its right but I am of the view that if you overdraw then you are using money that isn't yours to use...hence you get charged. If I overdraw then its usually my fault and I pay. If it isn't my fault then the majority of times you get the charges quashed. If you are constantly overdrawing then you're not living within your means and that's what needs sorting..no use blaming banks..they can only do so much for you. As for cheques taking longer to clear?? that just takes the pi$$

I'll have a look, thanks for the advice Max :)

Would be nice to think of banks and 'smile' ;)


Oh and by the way, if its any encouragement to anyone, when the Halifax made several errors with my account earilier this year, I complained, and CHARGED them - admittedly, the compensation offer at first was not only palty but the letter of apology I received with it, was insulting!

Still, another phone call to the branch manager and I got about £80 out of the barstewards (no offense to any bar stewards reading this... i'm just not sure if language is moderated on here?).

I think theres a lesson (and hope) in it, they will get away with what ever you LET them get away with sometimes! They dont like being held to account, but its particularly satisfying when you do! :)

Fair enough to charges being deserved (although the suggestion to 'live within ones means' assumes a certain justice, fairness, equitability even sufficiency to our society and distribution of resources that I dont believe exists...) but still, whats wrong with a fair price for a fair service? The banks operate bounced debits AUTOMATICALLY and I dont see where the £35 is going, they take it because they can.

Business STANDARDLY operate beyond their limits but when that happens the Government step in and bail out the troubled Co's (their business chums) with tax payers money. (have a look at ANY weeks private eye!)

Infact, all Government themselves have spent a helluva lot of money THEY dont have and get charged nothing in comparison to OUR charges (your ethos of living within means is exactly what much of the 3rd world wants to do but wont be allowed by the world bank!). I'm just sayin like....

Its another instance where we have to accept as individuals behaviour that corporations etc are immune against! (and certainly, if they get charged, it WONT be in comapritive ratio to £35:my wages!! )

Its a Credit crazed society and as with ALL societies (which is largely encouraged by Govt, industry etc!), its those at the bottom who get the biggest shafting.

I suppose its just money. Where it goes goes misery, pain, problems, injustice etc etc etc.

I was with Halifax and found them pretty reasonable, didn'y have any DD's going with them. Moved to HSBC - biggest bunch of pillocks going - can't sort out DDs. Chip and Pin doesen't work.

Original poster, try Nationwide, very good bank - I will prob go with them when I'm 18. However, I certainly am not sticking with HSBC. Might move to Natwest - who apparently lost somebodys money that I know - so maybe not!!!!

Alex

Originally posted by amhudson119
I was with Halifax and found them pretty reasonable, didn'y have any DD's going with them. Moved to HSBC - biggest bunch of pillocks going - can't sort out DDs. Chip and Pin doesen't work.

Original poster, try Nationwide, very good bank - I will prob go with them when I'm 18. However, I certainly am not sticking with HSBC. Might move to Natwest - who apparently lost somebodys money that I know - so maybe not!!!!

Alex

Its strange how people have totally differing experiences of banks. I bank with HSBC and they are excellent. Internet banking is a must. Chip and pin works fine..Never a DD problem...top service all round

Another vote for Smile. Been with them since they started about 4 years ago and never had a problem. Good OD facilities and ethical principles as well.

I've had problems with smile.

Twice this last 6 months, I have found myself in a situation where I've had to borrow money for a night out because my card was rejected at bank machines.

Oh the money was there in the account alright, but the system was unable to connect.

Originally posted by wibbles
Charges increasing are just a sign of the times. Prices for everyday objects are increasing so why shouldn't charges? Not that its right but I am of the view that if you overdraw then you are using money that isn't yours to use...hence you get charged. If I overdraw then its usually my fault and I pay. If it isn't my fault then the majority of times you get the charges quashed. If you are constantly overdrawing then you're not living within your means and that's what needs sorting..no use blaming banks..they can only do so much for you. As for cheques taking longer to clear?? that just takes the pi$$


I would agree to some extent, however....

The charges made by banks are ludicrous considering the effort that goes in to the things being charged for. When you get something bounced you're NOT being charged for the work involved. You're being punished - pure and simple. The banks probably rely for quite a bit of their profits on us 'bad lads' going overdrawn.

If I have a Direct Debit that goes on a certain date, and my pay is, say, a week late - quite common for a contractor - then becaue my bank won't give me an overdraft they'll bounce the DD. Within a month, I have more money coming in than going out, but because of the occasional delay in getting paid I get whacked with extra charges because the bank won't offer a week's worth of 'buffer'.

Also, 'uncleared funds'. Most cheques do clear. Banks are often very reluctant to allow you to draw on uncleared funds. It takes my bank 4 days to clear a cheque - i.e. pay in Monday and it's available Friday. The only way around this if I need cash urgently is to use a 'cheque cashing' company - and pay the charges.

Having worked for several years in banking IT, there is, for example, no reason why clearance of most funds takes as long as it does. There's no reason why electronic transfers take a day or so to clear. Banks get away with quite a lot, I'm afraid.

Joe

Originally posted by JoePritchard
I would agree to some extent, however....

The charges made by banks are ludicrous considering the effort that goes in to the things being charged for. When you get something bounced you're NOT being charged for the work involved. You're being punished - pure and simple. The banks probably rely for quite a bit of their profits on us 'bad lads' going overdrawn.

If I have a Direct Debit that goes on a certain date, and my pay is, say, a week late - quite common for a contractor - then becaue my bank won't give me an overdraft they'll bounce the DD. Within a month, I have more money coming in than going out, but because of the occasional delay in getting paid I get whacked with extra charges because the bank won't offer a week's worth of 'buffer'.

Also, 'uncleared funds'. Most cheques do clear. Banks are often very reluctant to allow you to draw on uncleared funds. It takes my bank 4 days to clear a cheque - i.e. pay in Monday and it's available Friday. The only way around this if I need cash urgently is to use a 'cheque cashing' company - and pay the charges.

Having worked for several years in banking IT, there is, for example, no reason why clearance of most funds takes as long as it does. There's no reason why electronic transfers take a day or so to clear. Banks get away with quite a lot, I'm afraid.

Joe

I totally agree Joe but we do take banks for granted. As much as we feel we get ripped off think of the service they provide virtually free of charge.Its like the postal service. We all complain how long it takes to get our letters but if you think about it for 27p or whatever a stamp is nowadays you get a letter taken and delivered virtually anywhere in the country within usually 2 days..where else would you get that service so cheap??. As a business they still have a responsibility to make money somehow and I do feel people think banks have this endless supply of cash to keep us all going. If a cheque bounces then the inconvenience it can cause someone could be immense so why shouldn't you get punished..its almost theft..taking something but not having the money to cover it. I understand that this isn't always the case and banks do mess up a lot but from my experience if its their fault they tend to accept it and help you out as long as you don't take the pi$$. If you continually bounce cheques and overdraw then too right you get charged. I have been in that position before and was all to quick to blame the banks for continually charging me and making me even more skint but then I stopped and realised that I need to help myself and not expect the banks to bail me out. I went in, spoke with a very helpul person. That was maybe 5 years ago and I haven't overdrawn, missed a payment, not paid a DD on time.

Hi Wibbles,

Because of some problems a few years ago I can't get an overdraft at the moment - also my pay often clears in in the afternoon and my dierct debits go (or get bounced) on the morning of the same day.

And I still get charged. Now I don't expect the bank to 'bail me out' - I would like a little slack though. WHy can't they review the sitauation at the CLOSE of business rather than the OPENING of business?

And as for banks extending the time it takes to clear, that is taking the mickey. I even have bank staff saying how ridiculous the situation is, but because of 'service improvements' the branch has bugger all to do with whether most transactions get cleared or not.

It was Mark Twain thatcommented that a banker was like a man who lent you an umbrella when it was sunny and demanded it back when it rained. Smart man, that Mark Twain.

Joe :-)

Originally posted by JoePritchard
pay often clears in in the afternoon and my dierct debits go (or get bounced) on the morning of the same day.


Have you considered altering the date of your direct debits? If you get paid on a regular day each month you should be able to set up your direct debits so they leave your account a few days after payday.

Alternatively (this isn't the easiest thing, but if you're paying bank charges every month it will save you some money), why not cancel the direct debits and go back to paying your bills by cheque/at the post office or bank/over the phone? That way you can be sure funds are available and you won't incur charges.

Not paid on the same date each month - contracting isn't quite as regular as all that!

And some things have to be paid by DD - mortgage for example - but thanks for the input!

Been around the block on banking issues often enough in the last 20 years to have tried most things!

Joe

A bank manager will lend you his umbrella when the sun is shining but when it begins to rain he wants it back.

I will never forget reading that.

A previous bank manager of mine returned a direct debit 3 times in one day resulting in charges of £90 for the sake of allowing the account to overdraw by £4.

I think it's down to targets, the more the manager earns the bank the better for him/her and they dont care how they get it .

BTW £60 was refunded after a few words :cool:

Originally posted by upholder
A previous bank manager of mine returned a direct debit 3 times in one day resulting in charges of £90 for the sake of allowing the account to overdraw by £4.


Somthing doesn't sound quite right there - the originator would have had to claim the DD three times, which isn't likely.

Hi Andy,

Well, I've had things happen on my bank account in the past that made me very sick indeed.

For example, the bank might bounce a payment for ten quid to, I don't know, TV Licensing but pass a payment of twenty quid that just happens to be going to one of their subsidiary companies. In other words, their company gets the money, you go deeper overdrawn.

Andy, people don't go out of their way to deliberately go overdrawn and run up bank charges. If you have a nice little overdraft to tide you through cashflow problems, then you'll be fine. If you haven't then you're in trouble.

I appreciate there are numerous rules that the banks have to help them get on with stuff, but they will apply them flexibly, especially if it suits themselves.

Joe

Originally posted by JoePritchard
Hi Wibbles,


And as for banks extending the time it takes to clear, that is taking the mickey. I even have bank staff saying how ridiculous the situation is, but because of 'service improvements' the branch has bugger all to do with whether most transactions get cleared or not.


Joe :-)

they earn interest on it when its in the twighlight zone, instead of the payee.
The longer they take to clear a cheque, the more interest they earn.

Originally posted by JoePritchard

Andy, people don't go out of their way to deliberately go overdrawn and run up bank charges.

I've never said that people do go deliberately overdrawn. :confused:

Originally posted by Andy
Somthing doesn't sound quite right there - the originator would have had to claim the DD three times, which isn't likely.

Sorry, it was a while back ( about six years) it may have been a cheque but he didn't have to return it 3 times in one day whatever method of payment.

Originally posted by Andy
I've never said that people do go deliberately overdrawn. :confused:

Sorry Andy!

I think it may have been the tone of another posting and your nae got attached to it!

Many apologies!

Joe

Hello

I cant remember who posted it, but someone mentioned that banks offer us a 'service' akin to that of the post office.

I dont think thats quite how it works. There is :

A) No 'offer'.

In modern society, a bank account is a necessity, not the individuals choice of service. Very few employers even have the capacity to pay in cash any more (even if there were a will to, apart from 'off the book' transactions!).

Many REAL services, gas, electricity, telephone etc encourage direct debit payments to customers not to mention the pletora of discounts available to those paying by DD! Some even refuse to accept anything other than DD depending on the customer/credit reference!!

B) A service

So, not only are we unwillingly herded into having a bank account (and we can probably nearly ALL think of an instance where the bank has messed us about!), but the banks, conveniently buddies of the rich industrialist scum that has us all working ourselves sick trying to get into a financial situation that isnt plagued by these little punishing charges.

The bank trades (and makes profits on) BILLIONS (in every unethical dirty way imaginable), they dont do it as 'public service'!

If money makes the world go round, then its no surprise that we have developed this reliance on and acceptance of banks and their practices!

No choice, no 'service'.

But then, I might be a tad bitter today, what with having an empty bank account, my last few pounds being taken by the charges I got for bouncing my car insurance. I'm also a temp, i get paid weekly, sometime between thursday and Monday, some weeks there are bank holidays, some weeks, I am ill or lose a few hours of work with personal reasons (cant afford to take a 'holiday', my holiday pay is included in my hourly wage, i'm told i can save it up...?! Yeah, on MY pay), keeping on top of DDs is a full time administration job! There are a lot of variables, yet the bills always need paying...!

Whilst it ISNT for the banks to offer an unofficial 'loan' service to those in need, they ARE indisputably making life ever increasingly difficult for many 'vulnerable' people! At least I dont have kids to support!!! But what about those people? Those who balance their accounts as well as possible, then something just 'comes up' (could be anything, for example, i had my car nicked, which i couldnt forsee or budget for - particularly not the £105 charge from the police for 'recovering' my car from the bottom of my street, to the other side of sheffield(withoit it even being REPORTED stolen or contacting me!) and the £12 nightly charge for leaving it there....!)and BANG £35 charge, it certainly aint a helping hand to getting OUT of financial difficulty and only the bank will benefit from taking more money the person obviously hasnt got ( I believe it could be called 'a nice little returner')!

You'll notice how most banks have changed their charge times now from the end of the month, to a week after the charge was made? Gives LOADS of time to get sorted then doesnt it?! More chance for them to get another £35 more like!!!

Its so sad. Any one wanna join my revolution? 3.5 day working week? No money required!

Bank charges are horrible, but when you go in & shout at the staff, please remember it isn't them who decide how much the charges will be & why they incur. Also, it isn't them who is raking in the profits, it's the men in suits at the top who don't have a clue what it's like working in the branch.

As for bounced cheques, you should make sure the funds are in your account when you write it. You can get away with putting the funds in the day after in a lot of cases but this is very naughty. :p

I'm always nice to the staff and I always make it clear, if I'm being empassioned in my discussions with them that I understand that it is policy and/or not their fault and I dont hold them responsible.

Still, if people dont wanna get grief over the actions of their superiors, they should be careful who they work for! ;)

Governments go to WAR when THEIR resources are threatened!

Originally posted by jessycar
Bank charges are horrible, but when you go in & shout at the staff, please remember it isn't them who decide how much the charges will be & why they incur. Also, it isn't them who is raking in the profits, it's the men in suits at the top who don't have a clue what it's like working in the branch.

As for bounced cheques, you should make sure the funds are in your account when you write it. You can get away with putting the funds in the day after in a lot of cases but this is very naughty. :p

Being an ex-bank employee (the Halifax as it happens), I had to endure hundreds of angry customers who had been ripped off with charges. The lesson I learnt was that the harder and louder they shouted, the more likely they were of getting their charges refunded. So the people who can refund charges ARE the front line staff and when they start giving more fees back than have been charged, perhaps the greedy fat-cats might sit up and notice.

My advice - go give the bank staff hell, they are paid enough in bonuses, overtime, etc.

Originally posted by jessycar
Bank charges are horrible, but when you go in & shout at the staff, please remember it isn't them who decide how much the charges will be & why they incur. Also, it isn't them who is raking in the profits, it's the men in suits at the top who don't have a clue what it's like working in the branch.

As for bounced cheques, you should make sure the funds are in your account when you write it. You can get away with putting the funds in the day after in a lot of cases but this is very naughty. :p

If I get paid weekly, and my employer drops the ball and fluffs my pay cheque so that it doesn't arrive....how am I supposed to manage my funds? Do you never send a cheque to someone based on the principle that you'll get paid on a set date? Do you not gear your direct debits around your pay day? What would happen one month if you DIDN'T get paid when expected?

And as for the staff, I'm always quite nice and polite.

Even to the person who, some years ago, led me to believe that the bank would be more amenable to giving me a current account if I had some other financial services with them. I signed up and got nowt.

Even to the manager of my bank 10 years ago who said it was OK to expand my business and then pulled the carpet from under me.

Some years ago a customer of one of the Big Four banks killed themselves over a debt issue. The guy's wife went and, I believe, slapped the manager of the branch to make her point. There was fuss and bother about it but she was spot on. Even if the staff don't make up the rules they implement them, and therefore they're part of the problem. No one forces people to work in banks - if they feel bad about doing the job, they'll either not work there or reconsider their career path. If they're happy to implement the rules, they should be equally happy to take a bit of stick.

If you want to work in these careers, take the bad with the good and don't be surprised when people who've taken a kicking from you aren't always delighted to see you.

Joe

Originally posted by jessycar

As for bounced cheques, you should make sure the funds are in your account when you write it. You can get away with putting the funds in the day after in a lot of cases but this is very naughty. :p

Thanks for the tip.

Not as naughty as bouncing the same cheque THREE times in one DAY though eh?

Hi Taz,

Why not try the Royal Bank of Scotland. I don't have any problems with them. Yes, they still have the usual charges but if you realise that you are going to have a problem then they'll let you have an overdraft with no problem.

Originally posted by upholder
Not as naughty as bouncing the same cheque THREE times in one DAY though eh?

Like I said before, it's impossible to bounce the same cheque more than once on a particular day. When a cheque is bounced, it is returned to the payee's bank by first class post. Therefore it can't be presented for payment again that day.

Maybe you were incorrectly charged 3 fees (which would be wrong, but easy to do - I've seen somthing similar happen). The same cheque would not have been bounced three times in one day though.

Originally posted by upholder

I think it's down to targets, the more the manager earns the bank the better for him/her and they dont care how they get it .



That isn't true in the slightest. Bank Managers do not hold their own budgets or control budgets.

Sure they have sales targets but they do not have charge targets!

If a manager decides to withdraw a charge it is his own decision to a certain extent. He cannot override a decision that has been made higher up the ladder though. If you do not make a habit of getting charges and you handle your account well they can usually see that it is a genuine over sight. If you are constantly or regularly making the same mistakes with your money then you may be under head office control.

The bank does not have to watch your finances for you, that is your responsibility. If you regularly have problems then you must be spending more that you earn, not timimg your payments well, or a number of other reasons not controlled by the bank.

I agree it is harsh and charges are too high but if you take control of your own situation then it won't happen.

From the horse's mouth...


At a press conference in London yesterday Banco Santander's chief executive, Alfredo Saenz, talking about the Abbey takeover said "British banks made profits three times of those in France and seven times those in Germany".