It's well known children don't always reach their peak from single families. It's also well known Britain is suffering giving the most generous benefits out, being anti-family - Labour would rather Britain went to Hell in a handcart rather than encourage marriage so to some it's a career sponge choice.

A horrifying rise of 10 percent over the last decade, whereas perfectly respectable liberal Bill Clinton in the U.S stopped benefits for singe mothers a decade ago and there's been a 30 percent drop once there's no spongeabiliity factor.

To top things off an EU-wide study confirms it's completely to do with the amount of benefits paid, hence is a career choice for many as below:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2330276,00.html
The study contrasts the situation in Britain and elsewhere in northern Europe with Mediterranean countries such as Spain, where single-mother families constitute less than 1% of the total. Spanish single mothers received £137 in special benefits a year in 1994, which by 2001 had declined to £38.

Spain, along with Greece, Portugal and Italy, have the lowest numbers of single-mother families in Europe.

Latest figures from the Office for National Statistics show single-mother families in Britain have steadily risen from 1% of all households with children in 1971 to 11% in 2004.

Libertad Gonzalez, a Barcelona academic who compiled the research, studied a sample of 6,580 single mothers from the European Community Household Panel. She estimates that for every £675 a state offers in benefits to lone parents, the incidence of single mothers goes up in that country by 2%.

After Britain, Ireland — despite its Catholic heritage — has the highest proportion of single mothers in the EU. In 2001 more than 4% of households were headed by single mothers. Irish lone mothers receive as much in benefits as their British counterparts.

This isn't good for the UK in many ways - cost, crime and for the future and is tarnishing perfectly respectable single Mums who don't resort to having a kid as a career choice.

(couldn't edit the OP for some reason)

Single mothers are the only reason for everything bad in the UK. Should have known. Yawn.....

I take it the statistics are for deliberately single mothers and not those who have been in a domestic partnership with the child's father who has chosen to leave them to their fate?

OMG i now realise just how lucky i was to be a single mother thank you for pointing that out :loopy: I thought it was a very hard time but now i realise how wonderfull a career it really was :rolleyes: some people are never satisfied are they!

Well I've ben a single parent from my youngest son being 6 months old, he is nearly 20 now.
And when I say I was a single parent I was with the father of my children till the son mentioned was 7 years old, yet I still consider myself as a single parent.
You know sometimes us women are silly & believe our first love is going to take care of everything, when in actual fact they are just lazy no good for nothing lay abouts.
Most of us (once single parents) realise & do something about it & get up off our ar$e$ & turn our lives around, some it takes a little longer.
So don't slate all single mums because you can guarentee behind every single mum there is a good for nothing lazy man.

Nothing personal intended against all men, just the few, who know who they are.

I would also like to add I am now in a stable relationship of 11 years, we both work hard for a living & reap the rewards.

HAHAHAHA
here we go again
*waits for the gays and gypsies are the cause of all ills threads again*
It's well known children don't always reach their peak from single families. It's also well known Britain is suffering giving the most generous benefits out, being anti-family - Labour would rather Britain went to Hell in a handcart rather than encourage marriage so to some it's a career sponge choice.

A horrifying rise of 10 percent over the last decade, whereas perfectly respectable liberal Bill Clinton in the U.S stopped benefits for singe mothers a decade ago and there's been a 30 percent drop once there's no spongeabiliity factor.

To top things off an EU-wide study confirms it's completely to do with the amount of benefits paid, hence is a career choice for many as below:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2330276,00.html
The study contrasts the situation in Britain and elsewhere in northern Europe with Mediterranean countries such as Spain, where single-mother families constitute less than 1% of the total. Spanish single mothers received £137 in special benefits a year in 1994, which by 2001 had declined to £38.

Spain, along with Greece, Portugal and Italy, have the lowest numbers of single-mother families in Europe.

Latest figures from the Office for National Statistics show single-mother families in Britain have steadily risen from 1% of all households with children in 1971 to 11% in 2004.

Libertad Gonzalez, a Barcelona academic who compiled the research, studied a sample of 6,580 single mothers from the European Community Household Panel. She estimates that for every £675 a state offers in benefits to lone parents, the incidence of single mothers goes up in that country by 2%.

After Britain, Ireland — despite its Catholic heritage — has the highest proportion of single mothers in the EU. In 2001 more than 4% of households were headed by single mothers. Irish lone mothers receive as much in benefits as their British counterparts.

i think a lot of single mams do a hell of a good job in bringing their kids up

personally i think english glorys posts should all go in the im bored section, cos hes obviously bored and spends a lot of time thinking up stupid theories about the world and who causes the problems

And don't lets forget those ladies who marry a man who then decides to beat them, leaving them with no choice but to leave everything they own and flee to a hostel. I am sure that's a conscious decision and great career move on their part.

Not all single mums are 'spongers'. I work and care for my children, one of who has complex disabilities.

Can I just point something out you may have missed - they talk about a correlation between rates of single parents and rates of benefits. However a correlation does not show any cause and effect linkage. Maybe "high" levels of benefit are the cause of "high" rates of single parenthood. Perhaps if you have "high" levels of single parenthood, single parents become a political force and can lobby for higher levels of benefit. Or perhaps a liberal society that believes in livable rates of benefit are more accepting of single parenthood? The world is seldom as black and white as some people like to think!

The world is seldom as black and white as some people like to think!

zactly
i keep telling people that, they dont look deep enough into something and get ALL sides of the arguement, just the part they believe (which then makes them correct) but half the story is missing

This thread has well wound me up! :rant:

I was brought up in a single parent household - my dad didn't want to know me and my mother struggled on what little benefits she could get. She tried working when me and my sister were little on a milk float but it got too much for her.

You know, I could tell you all a million and one stories about what a struggle it was and without some of the benefits my mum got we'd have been in a worse state.

The benefits we received we're never enough to provide us with what we needed. Luckly, I have brilliant Grandparents who were always willing to help. :)

Children from single parent families will come to no good was the cry when I became a single parent a good few years ago. It annoyed me then and it annoys me now.:rant: Nothing changes it would seem.
Well, my daughter was 8 when her father and I split up. He hadn't had an awful lot of input to their upbringing anyway due to him being away most of the time as a serviceman.
As for them being doomed to a life of crime or at the bottom of the pile, so to speak, let me tell you. My daughter is a legal secretary working in Luxemburg. My son is a Black Belt 10th dan in Ninjutsu and lives in Japan, where he is very highly thought of.
Please don't say yes, but I was lucky.....that also annoys me....it was down to hard work but you would not believe how proud I am of them now.:)

Good on ya Joanl. I'm proud of my mum and the way she brought me up.

Both me and my sister have both ot respectable jobs too. It's all just a lot of rubbish what people say. I'm sure some single parent children do grow up to do bad but then the same amount of children from families with both parents will do the same.

Poeple shouldn't be put into categories because of their upbringing.

the thing that annoys me is young kids (15-16yr olds) who have babies because they know they'll get a council house, benefits etc.

they dont actually realise how difficult it is bring up a child .

the thing that annoys me is young kids (15-16yr olds) who have babies because they know they'll get a council house, benefits etc.

they dont actually realise how difficult it is bring up a child .

Exactly :thumbsup: and once they would have been called un-married mothers but someone in their wisdom decided that there was too much of a stigma attached to that and that we should all become single parents.....As I have said before, many times to various people, single parenthood can happen to anyone at anytime for several different reasons.....instead of knocking and pointing the finger, people should think......there but for the grace of God go I......

Children from single parent families will come to no good was the cry when I became a single parent a good few years ago. It annoyed me then and it annoys me now.:rant: Nothing changes it would seem.
Well, my daughter was 8 when her father and I split up. He hadn't had an awful lot of input to their upbringing anyway due to him being away most of the time as a serviceman.
As for them being doomed to a life of crime or at the bottom of the pile, so to speak, let me tell you. My daughter is a legal secretary working in Luxemburg. My son is a Black Belt 10th dan in Ninjutsu and lives in Japan, where he is very highly thought of.
Please don't say yes, but I was lucky.....that also annoys me....it was down to hard work but you would not believe how proud I am of them now.:)



Well said Joanl, I was brought up in a single parent family with my brother at a young age when my dad did the dirty on my mum and even tho she struggled with money as she could not claim a thing on the state she had to work to make ends meet and we both came out fine and we never not got into trouble, and i love my mother and proud of her not giveing up on anything even tho she did get into money troubles but then she was a fighter as it was hard for her at the time.
Now im a single mother who has a 11y old daughter, Now she is not also a threat to people that goes out and causes trouble like many other kids, she top of her class also got a young citizen award (that im so proud of as only 2 kids in the whole of sheffield got this) this year from her school from the city hall for her careing nature of being a young carea for me as now im disabled as can not work, i have worked from leaveing school till 3ys ago when i could not work and now claim DLA as i can not work, she also got this award for helping out other kids in her school that was bullied or just there to listen to them and also helping them with school work wile she still did her own work, and even tho i had to bring her up from the age of one on my own and also myself been only 19 at the time iam dam proud to be a single mother and of my child as she could have gone of the rails due to what she seen in the past with what her father did to me as he was very violent that is why iam a single parent, It realy gets up my goat when people say i was lucky to have my daughter to be born the way she was, but it was due to hard work to make sure she did not hang around with the wrong crowd like you see kids do at a early age. wish people would stop and think why some parents are single parents and it is not to get a council house at all, i was already in my own place and working full time before i had my daughter, and also why are not the x partner to blame for parents been single why is it always the one with the kids that are to blame.

the thing that annoys me is young kids (15-16yr olds) who have babies because they know they'll get a council house, benefits etc.

they dont actually realise how difficult it is bring up a child .
You see i can never understand this theory, doubtless some people do this but why i will never know, they are changing their lives forever and life is doubtlessly going to be difficult.
I would never tell anyone its a good idea to have a child and bring it up alone, reality is that its a hard and lonely struggle, yes they will get benefits but they are only just enough to live on and not always... they dont cover emergencies like an exploding cooker or needing a new carpet etc, at these times you have to hope that someone will be able to help you out.
And oh yes you may get a house but i would like to bet it will be in a mess or in a bad area, there is still a terrific amount of discrimination about wether SCC admit it or not.
Things are rarely how they seem, even if youngsters do get themselves in a mess like this at the end of the day they are young and when we are young we make mistakes, they still need our help and support, condemnation will not make a bad job any better.

It seems to me that people dont realise that everyone is different and everyone has had different issues in life. I get as mad as the next person when I see a young mum complaining about benefits with a fag in her mouth etc, like on pram face the young girl was whinging that she could not afford to heat her flat and her little boy was freezing but she could afford a 20 pack of smokes ???? hmm. But some single Mums do a fantastic job and have to work really hard and some times through no fault of there own, like if the father just buggers off and takes no responsability for his children, or if the Dad is violent etc and as someone else has said people make errors (I dont like the word mistakes) and then get condemned for doing there best by there children and that stinks. There are a few bad eggs out there but its totally unfair to judge everyone without knowing all there circumstances.

the thing that annoys me is young kids (15-16yr olds) who have babies because they know they'll get a council house, benefits etc.

they dont actually realise how difficult it is bring up a child .

We keep hearing this theory, but I wonder how many girls do actually get pregnant just because they want a council house and benefits? There probably are a few who are stupid enough to do that, but how do we know that it is the norm? Do they have to state on their benefits claim form that that is why they got pregnant?:confused:

We keep hearing this theory, but I wonder how many girls do actually get pregnant just because they want a council house and benefits? There probably are a few who are stupid enough to do that, but how do we know that it is the norm? Do they have to state on their benefits claim form that that is why they got pregnant?:confused:

They wouldn't get a house if aged under 16 anyway as they're still classed as children and are not entitled to live independently. I'm not even sure if they can get any benefits until they're 16, so presumably their own parents have to support them.

The thing is, we can go on about the mums all we like but we can't ignore that there are kids involved, and denying the mums money and help will only hurt the children they've brought into the world.

So why do some do it? There must be hundreds of reasons, but I think one might be some girls have had a poor upbringing maybe without much love and think a child will give them that love. I think a lot of girls brought up in care are vulnerable in that way. Teenage girls are also very sentimental and might not be able to face getting rid of an unwanted pregnancy; likewise they might be very idealistic about their boyfriend sticking around whereas a lot of young lads have very different ideas!

Our daughter is also a single mother through no fault of her own. Her husband decided the "grass was greener" when the youngest of her two boys was only 2. She has always worked and is still in the same job because of their understanding attitude to child care and when holidays occur both sets of grandparents do their bit.
You couldn't ask for two more polite if boisterous little boys who would help anyone. She didn't choose to be a single parent but we are very proud of the way she has coped and is bringing up two well balanced children.

All I know is that most of the "problem" kids I've encountered round here have a Mother & a Father

Children from single parent families will come to no good was the cry when I became a single parent a good few years ago. It annoyed me then and it annoys me now.:rant: Nothing changes it would seem.
Well, my daughter was 8 when her father and I split up. He hadn't had an awful lot of input to their upbringing anyway due to him being away most of the time as a serviceman.
As for them being doomed to a life of crime or at the bottom of the pile, so to speak, let me tell you. My daughter is a legal secretary working in Luxemburg. My son is a Black Belt 10th dan in Ninjutsu and lives in Japan, where he is very highly thought of.
Please don't say yes, but I was lucky.....that also annoys me....it was down to hard work but you would not believe how proud I am of them now.:)

Joan, I was at school with your son and daughter, I was in the same class as your son at school, for some years.

I do not ever remember either of your children being in any sort of bother during my school-years with them.

I remember them as being very hard-working, and polite.

You have a lot to be proud of, in your son and daughter!

I never knew that you were bringing them up single handed.

Some people just HAVE to pick on others. Its a sad fact of life.

We keep hearing this theory, but I wonder how many girls do actually get pregnant just because they want a council house and benefits? There probably are a few who are stupid enough to do that, but how do we know that it is the norm? Do they have to state on their benefits claim form that that is why they got pregnant?:confused:


its much more than you'd think.

My dad is deputy headteacher at a really rough school in nottingham, and approx 30% of the school leavers never turned up for their GCSE's due to other commitments - basically they're either pregnant or had babies!

Scary

All I know is that most of the "problem" kids I've encountered round here have a Mother & a Father
Yes it was mainly parents in that category that would say how lucky I was to have two well behaved children. What normally happens is if they ask mum for something and she says no, they go and ask dad and will probably get whatever it is they want, or the other way round. In truth, it was because when I said no I had to say it for two people, me and an absent father. (and MEAN it)
It's long since been a standing joke that when they were little, I ran a tight ship......Yes I did thank goodness.

PT thanks for your kind words, that was really nice of you to say. I'm still trying to get them to sign up on here:hihi:

theres a lot of kids come from well off family,s who turn out bad

Most statistics and reports give an overall view, and whether they are about single mothers, teenage pregnancies etc, they are findings from a sample. They are not directed at individuals - so of course many single mothers do a good job bringing up their children, and many two parent families don't. Sometimes the media pick up the most negative examples for their headline news, it doesn't mean that all single mothers are rubbish!

However, there are concerns about the benefits system - it traps some people by making it difficult to move from claiming to working, and it encourages some people not to work at all (some for the whole of their lives). 10 years ago there were changes made to the US benefits system to try to reduce the number claiming and get more people back into work. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=401669&in_page_id=1811 According to this report it seems to have worked - an extract states: It put a time limit on welfare payments and rammed home that welfare was not a life time entitlement.
Ten years on it was being hailed yesterday as a remarkable success. The number of people on welfare has plunged 60 per cent and the employment of single mothers has soared 70 per cent.

Some people just HAVE to pick on others. Its a sad fact of life.

Yes, because stating the facts are obviously picking on people. Heaven forbid facts that emerge that contradicts liberal beliefs. When the liberal west, as in this case, has gone off in a completely different direction to the UK and the facts emerge it's quickly shouted down - bar one reasoned comment that tried to establish the reasons why.

Therein lies the problem with Britain. Everything is taboo, mel the bell (tries to) endeth discussion when the facts of the matter are there.

Therein lies the problem with Britain. Everything is taboo.


have to agree with this statement!

have to agree with this statement!

I have to disagree with this statement.

Ok English Glory; so you think we have too many single Mums? What do you propose we do about it?

I feel that almost every subject is taboo or not PC.

personally I think political correctness has gone mad in this country.

ie - if an ethnic person and caucasian person apply to the fire service the ethnic person has a better chance of getting in, even if the caucasian person is fitter etc.

CRAZY!

Ok English Glory; so you think we have too many single Mums? What do you propose we do about it?

Take a leaf out of other liberal-minded nations as they all have the proof that tackling the problem is through benefit reduction.

Though it doesn't help with sexual education classes for people as young as 11. It really doesn't! Gving condoms out for everyone - handfuls from sexual health clinics. There's little evidence it stops "unwanted" pregnancies more it encourages all kids from a much earlier age to "go for it".

the back to basics thing in the 80s was sound but it didnt last did it

How will cutting benefits stop men(or women) leaving their partners with children?

the back to basics thing in the 80s was sound but it didnt last did it

What about abstinence before marriage that has proven such a hit in the U.S. under the pro-Catholics. Why should it be about religion - why not promote that with £hundreds of millions every year to impressionable youngsters.

Not that it'll work totally but it will help the onslaught of teenage prengnancies, coupled with a sound template from liberal nations of benefit reduction.

What about abstinence before marriage that has proven such a hit in the U.S. under the pro-Catholics. Why should it be about religion - why not promote that with £hundreds of millions every year to impressionable youngsters.
Actualy i think you have the real answer there, particularly where the very young people are concerned.
The one thing a teenager wants to be seen as is grown up, and what do grown ups do... drink, smoke and have sex, are these not the main problems we have with our kids today? sex nowadays is just so in your face all the time, perhaps it should be cut out a bit by the media?

sex nowadays is just so in your face all the time, perhaps it should be cut out a bit by the media?
nooooooooo i say more sex more sex :)

Take a leaf out of other liberal-minded nations as they all have the proof that tackling the problem is through benefit reduction.

As pointed out above what you have is a correlation not proof, not fact not causes. Just because X and Y are correlated it doesn't mean that X causes Y, Y could just as easily cause X or both could be the product of another factor (or large number of factors).

Now putting that to one side - what's the actual problem with single parenthood?

What about abstinence before marriage that has proven such a hit in the U.S. under the pro-Catholics. Why should it be about religion - why not promote that with £hundreds of millions every year to impressionable youngsters.

Not that it'll work totally but it will help the onslaught of teenage prengnancies, coupled with a sound template from liberal nations of benefit reduction.
trouble is a lot of them, as has already been said, get pregnant for a reason...

nooooooooo i say more sex more sex :)
Perking up again are we mel :hihi:

The thing about reducing benefits is to me it seems almost like a punishment for being in that situation, its a situation not everyone can help, even if people spend some time on benefits i believe that usualy they will return to work when their families are older as i did myself.
I have said this before and it may not be popular but i don't care, the children of one parent families have already lost one parent, why should they also lose the other one to full time work? do we not have a responsibility to care for and bring stability to or own children? i think so.

I must say, from the things I've read over the last few years (and I'm not talking the Sun), teenage pregnacies, or the benefits-dependant ones that are the real subject of approbation, are by and large a result of low expectations and growing up surrounded by people who achieve nothing in life. A lot of teenagers know very well how babies are made and how to prevent them, but they actually choose to become mothers beacuse, in their short life and narrow social horizon, there's nothing else in life to do. It's the only identity or 'career' option available to them as they see it.

All this toss about it being 'too much' sex education - people on the continent on the whole have far fewer hang ups about the birds and the bees, but they do have more mature and lasting family connections and commitments. If a teenager has self-esteem and self-respect, they are far less likely to resort to manufacturing babies and actually building a life for themselves first.

I must say, from the things I've read over the last few years (and I'm not talking the Sun), teenage pregnacies, or the benefits-dependant ones that are the real subject of approbation, are by and large a result of low expectations and growing up surrounded by people who achieve nothing in life. A lot of teenagers know very well how babies are made and how to prevent them, but they actually choose to become mothers beacuse, in their short life and narrow social horizon, there's nothing else in life to do. It's the only identity or 'career' option available to them as they see it.

All this toss about it being 'too much' sex education - people on the continent on the whole have far fewer hang ups about the birds and the bees, but they do have more mature and lasting family connections and commitments. If a teenager has self-esteem and self-respect, they are far less likely to resort to manufacturing babies and actually building a life for themselves first.
You have made very valid points there and i totaly agree, i did not mean we should have less sex education though i meant that we do not need the glamerisation of sex that we have in the medea now.

I must say, from the things I've read over the last few years (and I'm not talking the Sun), teenage pregnacies, or the benefits-dependant ones that are the real subject of approbation, are by and large a result of low expectations and growing up surrounded by people who achieve nothing in life. A lot of teenagers know very well how babies are made and how to prevent them, but they actually choose to become mothers beacuse, in their short life and narrow social horizon, there's nothing else in life to do. It's the only identity or 'career' option available to them as they see it.

All this toss about it being 'too much' sex education - people on the continent on the whole have far fewer hang ups about the birds and the bees, but they do have more mature and lasting family connections and commitments. If a teenager has self-esteem and self-respect, they are far less likely to resort to manufacturing babies and actually building a life for themselves first.

Excellent post, Purdyamos - so sad and yet so true.

The REALLY scary thing for society though - and I have been told this by an expert in the field - is that increasingly the majority of the people having children today in Britain are teenage girls and women over the age of 35!! Women in their 20s and early 30s (the traditional time for the majority of women to be having their families) are simply not having children.

Demographic time-bomb or what? Where is the future generation to come from? Remembering that there is no guarantee at all that women who have put off having their family will actually be able to conceive past the age of 35 or so.

Perhaps teenage mothers are currently a necessary evil for society? Perhaps their benefit level ought to be going up, rather than talking about penalising them financially?

I don't even pretend to have any sort of answer. But it does seem that teenage motherhood has wider implications for society than might be thought at first glance.

Food for thought?

StarSparkle

Without casting aspersions on those who have been left in an unenviable position through no fault of their own to raise children but have had motherhood without the support or presence of a partner, to you I can only offer my admiration as I wouldn't be able to raise a child even with the support of my partner let alone on my own. I have to chip in my twopennies worth though.

I was listening to a discussion the other day which really summed up girls who get pregnant on purpose without considering the financial, logistical or emotional consequences of their actions "Slowly but surely the country is being populated by stupid people, these people breed giving birth to stupid children who in turn prematurely breed again giving us three generations of simpletons in a space of 45 years". IMO certain aspects of our society are devolving into a bovine underclass fit for only the basic tasks: Eating, sleeping and breeding all of which they do with amazing prowess.

To quote Hicks 'There are nations on this planet crying out "Revolution, Revolution!" Here they're crying out "Evolution, Evolution! ..... We want our thumbs".

I know myself I was one of the girls you talk about on here, 17 when I had my first, 19 when I had my second. However you can't only blame the single mums, the men who leave them have a lot to answer for. I was in a relationship that lasted for 10 years but shouldn't have lasted at all. I was braver by becoming a single parent than I was staying in a violent relationship.
Do not tar all with the same brush, I was determined to become a single parent after the abuse I had suffered, yet it took me about 8 years to eventually break free.
I have always worked from my second son being 6 months old, I realised I better because he wasn't going to.
I now have a law degree, in a stable relationship of 11 years, also have a daughter of 8 & manage a small but of a very large well known company.
My 2 boys work hard for a living & are a credit compared to what I allowed them to suffer in their early years.
IMO us girls fall in love a little too easy & think we are set for life with a decent man & feel having a baby is the icing on the cake. Obviously we are only children at the time & are lead astray by (usually) older men who promise us everything. It is only when we grow older & wiser we realise & try to solve our errors.

I must say, from the things I've read over the last few years (and I'm not talking the Sun), teenage pregnacies, or the benefits-dependant ones that are the real subject of approbation, are by and large a result of low expectations and growing up surrounded by people who achieve nothing in life. A lot of teenagers know very well how babies are made and how to prevent them, but they actually choose to become mothers beacuse, in their short life and narrow social horizon, there's nothing else in life to do. It's the only identity or 'career' option available to them as they see it.

All this toss about it being 'too much' sex education - people on the continent on the whole have far fewer hang ups about the birds and the bees, but they do have more mature and lasting family connections and commitments. If a teenager has self-esteem and self-respect, they are far less likely to resort to manufacturing babies and actually building a life for themselves first.

Well thats called the reprecussions of free choice. You cant have it both ways now can you !

They choose to have sex with some wet behind the ears idiot, drop a child and its whose fault again ?

Well thats called the reprecussions of free choice. You cant have it both ways now can you !

They choose to have sex with some wet behind the ears idiot, drop a child and its whose fault again ?

Well, I'd say it's a good 50% the fault of the wet behind the ears idiot, if you are desperate to apportion blame. :D

StarSparkle

Well, I'd say it's a good 50% the fault of the wet behind the ears idiot, if you are desperate to apportion blame. :D

StarSparkle

You're taking equality abit far there.
The wet behind the ears idiot is simply looking for sex. Short of him committing rape, I'm afraid its 100% the girls fault.

When there is an abortion, the guy has NO say because its the womans body and therefore the womans choice, so which convoluted form of logic are you applying when trying to apportion ANY blame on the guy ?

Its the womans body, she decides, she's been made aware of the reprecussions, so please enlighten me once again with her excuse ?

Excellent post, Purdyamos - so sad and yet so true.

The REALLY scary thing for society though - and I have been told this by an expert in the field - is that increasingly the majority of the people having children today in Britain are teenage girls and women over the age of 35!! Women in their 20s and early 30s (the traditional time for the majority of women to be having their families) are simply not having children.

Demographic time-bomb or what? Where is the future generation to come from? Remembering that there is no guarantee at all that women who have put off having their family will actually be able to conceive past the age of 35 or so.

Perhaps teenage mothers are currently a necessary evil for society? Perhaps their benefit level ought to be going up, rather than talking about penalising them financially?

I don't even pretend to have any sort of answer. But it does seem that teenage motherhood has wider implications for society than might be thought at first glance.

Food for thought?

StarSparkle

Very interesting! Another thought about what might cross the minds of some young women is maybe some of them don't actually want to join the cut throat world of the workplace? We can now accept that some men actually want to stay at home and bring uo the kids, why can't women have that aim too?

There's also a lot of truth in saying many young women are idealistic and think they will stick with the father, or think he will stick around! But the culture for young men now is to act the lad and play the field, not to be a dad and go to work and do DIY etc! That doesn't happen for a lot of men until they're well into middle age! Plus I'm sure many many young mums think they will be the one to have it all, go to college, get a job, get a career! But the sleepless nights happen and it all goes down the pan. :(

You're taking equality abit far there.
The wet behind the ears idiot is simply looking for sex. Short of him committing rape, I'm afraid its 100% the girls fault.

When there is an abortion, the guy has NO say because its the womans body and therefore the womans choice, so which convoluted form of logic are you applying when trying to apportion ANY blame on the guy ?

Its the womans body, she decides, she's been made aware of the reprecussions, so please enlighten me once again with her excuse ?

ok, I see. You're still waiting to have your first relationship with a girl. Good luck mate, cos with that attitude, you'll be waiting a long time.

Either that or you're not a very good troll.

StarSparkle

ok, I see. You're still waiting to have your first relationship with a girl. Good luck mate, cos with that attitude, you'll be waiting a long time.

Either that or you're not a very good troll.

StarSparkle

Looks like you dont see much...

Oh please dont tell me you're one of those bright girls !

You're taking equality abit far there.
The wet behind the ears idiot is simply looking for sex. Short of him committing rape, I'm afraid its 100% the girls fault.

When there is an abortion, the guy has NO say because its the womans body and therefore the womans choice, so which convoluted form of logic are you applying when trying to apportion ANY blame on the guy ?

Its the womans body, she decides, she's been made aware of the reprecussions, so please enlighten me once again with her excuse ?

That wet behind the ears idiot knows where his hand is if his only want is for sex.

I'm sure he also knows where babies come from, and its him who helps make 'em, they don't come free with Max Power.

I believe that Holland has one of the lowest teenage pregnancy rates. Is this due to their lack of hang ups where sex is concerned or the fact that all the horny young lads can do a bit of window shopping with their sweet money. :D

That wet behind the ears idiot knows where his hand is if his only want is for sex.

I'm sure he also knows where babies come from, and its him who helps make 'em, they don't come free with Max Power.

He may be a wet behind the ears idiot, but he's not likely to turn down sex now is he ? which still comes back to ......

Looks like you dont see much...

Oh please dont tell me you're one of those bright girls !

Ha, ha, ha - you're so funny!

If I need to tell you I'm a bright woman, you're obviously not a very bright boy!

StarSparkle

PS As Mathom says, even wet behind the ears idiots know where babies come from, and it's a very clever girl who can make a baby all on her own! :D

He may be a wet behind the ears idiot, but he's not likely to turn down sex now is he ? which still comes back to ......

So if they can't turn down sex and haven't got the self control to do so, then they should also accept that one day they will create a child. A child who will want a father, and they'll have created a mother who will also need the father.

Or they could use condoms.

Maybe that's a bit much to ask though eh? I mean, insisting on using a johnny for ten minutes is soooo difficult compared to being a mother for the next sixty years?

Ha, ha, ha - you're so funny!

If I need to tell you I'm a bright woman, you're obviously not a very bright boy!

StarSparkle

I'm sure the 16 year pushing a pram down the street thinks those very same thoughts. In both cases, how very wrong you are.

p.s. when someone claims they are very bright, it usually means they're not.

I'm sure the 16 year pushing a pram down the street thinks those very same thoughts. In both cases, how very wrong you are.

p.s. when someone claims they are very bright, it usually means they're not.

I knew I was right!

You've never had a relationship, have you?!

StarSparkle

I knew I was right!

You've never had a relationship, have you?!

StarSparkle

What's a relationship? and are they expensive. :P

I knew I was right!

You've never had a relationship, have you?!

StarSparkle

I knew it I was right!

You're a blonde right ?

p.s. You're wrong :hihi:

I knew it I was right!

You're a blonde right ?

p.s. You're wrong :hihi:

Yes, I'm a blonde! You've got something right - well done!

I also have a university honours degree and a university postgraduate degree in a different subject.

Let's get back to the subject here, shall we? Other people are going to be sick of all our posturing!

StarSparkle

Fight, Fight, Fight, Fight, Fight, Fight, Fight,..........................:d

Fight, Fight, Fight, Fight, Fight, Fight, Fight,..........................:d

Nah, there's not a fight in him. :D

StarSparkle

Careful Sparkle his Guitar case is lethal :D

Yes, I'm a blonde! You've got something right - well done!

I also have a university honours degree and a university postgraduate degree in a different subject.

Let's get back to the subject here, shall we? Other people are going to be sick of all our posturing!

StarSparkle

Well if in the future you can select a degree thats actually worth the paper its printed on, perhaps YOU will get something right.

You're taking equality abit far there.
The wet behind the ears idiot is simply looking for sex. Short of him committing rape, I'm afraid its 100% the girls fault.

Elementary genetics - two gametes (one from the male one from the female) fuse to produce an embryo. 50-50 genetic input would imply a 50-50 responsibility no?

My sister has brought up her son on her own and held down a job.Alot of so called familys who i have seen seem very disfunctional even tho there are both parents in the household.Very easy to cast the net and pull people in. Some people got there heads so far up there own arses theyl never smell the coffee.:thumbsup:

Nah, there's not a fight in him. :D

StarSparkle

Now, now, StarSparkle...there are posters on here who would push the "Report this Post" for a comment like that. Fair debate...is not that the ethos of SF? :)

Elementary genetics - two gametes (one from the male one from the female) fuse to produce an embryo. 50-50 genetic input would imply a 50-50 responsibility no?

and if it was that elementary, then why cant the guy have any say when the woman wants an abortion ? after all, like you said, its 50-50.

Careful Sparkle his Guitar case is lethal :D

Sugar! I'd forgotten about that - could have been nasty! Cheers, FYTC - thanks for reminding me! :thumbsup:

StarSparkle

and if it was that elementary, then why cant the guy have any say when the woman wants an abortion ? after all, like you said, its 50-50.

Once you walk away why should you have any rights over the situation? Your responsibility for bringing it about remains however...

Once you walk away why should you have any rights over the situation? Your responsibility for bringing it about remains however...

But how about the men who DON'T walk away? Ok, they might have walked away from the 'relationship', but that's not to say that they walked away from the pregnancy - they may well have not been aware of it at the time (and, be fair, there are a number of women who weren't aware of the pregnancy until several months after a relationship ended). What about those men? They might well have chosen to see their child into the world, and to have a say and an active input into their child's upbringing, but they were deprived of that by a 'woman's right to choose' re abortion - or even, to the woman's capabilty to bring up their child alone.

Not all men are bas*****. ( sorry about masked swearing, it's a common term so I didn't feel bad about using it).

I completely disagree that the " abstinence " slant in America is working.

this "silver-bloody-ring-thing" has a lot to answer for.

kids in america are being taught that using condoms, and having safe sex is

A) not safe in protecting from transmission of STDs

and B) not reliable as contraception.

which leads to the horrifically high rates of teen pregnancies and STDs in the US.

teaching kids about the facts of life at 11 (which when you consider that puberty is appearing earlier every new generation is no bad thing, is it?) goves them the opportunity to make informed decisions, about their bodies, and their lives.

we cannot stop these kids experimenting, as it's human nature, what we can do is give them the opportunity to have all the facts to hand when they make that decision.

My grandma became pregnant before marriage. When I asked about what reactions she got, she just shrugged, and said "I wasn't the first, and I won't be the last. It did happen, back then, it just wasn't talked about! Your grandpa and I were planning to marry in the summer of 1939, anyway; it just meant the wedding had to be brought forward a few months."

and elmariachi, your comments about it being 100% the girl's fault, if she has sex and falls pregnant are out of order. Did you not do biology at your school? If you read your biology text books, for mammaian reproduction, it needs two parties in the act to create a child:- the MALE and the FEMALE.

Are you seriously suggesting that the boy has no part in it?

to my knowledge, there was only one recorded incident, ever, in history where a woman concieved without a man being involved somewhere!!!!

it is as much the boy's responsibility to use protection as it is the girls'.

P "takes two to tango" T

It's well known children don't always reach their peak from single families.

Children from dual parent families always do though I suppose ?

But how about the men who DON'T walk away? Ok, they might have walked away from the 'relationship', but that's not to say that they walked away from the pregnancy - they may well have not been aware of it at the time (and, be fair, there are a number of women who weren't aware of the pregnancy until several months after a relationship ended). What about those men? They might well have chosen to see their child into the world, and to have a say and an active input into their child's upbringing, but they were deprived of that by a 'woman's right to choose' re abortion - or even, to the woman's capabilty to bring up their child alone.

Not all men are bas*****. ( sorry about masked swearing, it's a common term so I didn't feel bad about using it).

I agree, its harsh on those men, but looking at it from a practical perspective, a woman is not a walking, talking incubator, and bearing children permanently alters not just a woman's body but her psychological outlook too. Sometimes it can even cause ill health, disability or death. So that's why, ultimately, it is left up to the woman as she is the one who has to do this and bear the consequences. I think there are good reasons why a woman should not deny fathers access to a child once born - unless of course he is indeed a bas****, and then she's probably right to keep the child away from a bad influence.

PT - you're spot on. I think there needs to be a shift in emphasis away from girls and women having to take responsibility and place this more on men/boys. Can they really be sure that girl is on the pill? No. So its up to them to insist on using their own protection - and what's more, it protects both of them from disease!

I completely disagree that the " abstinence " slant in America is working.

this "silver-bloody-ring-thing" has a lot to answer for.

kids in america are being taught that using condoms, and having safe sex is

A) not safe in protecting from transmission of STDs

and B) not reliable as contraception.

which leads to the horrifically high rates of teen pregnancies and STDs in the US.

teaching kids about the facts of life at 11 (which when you consider that puberty is appearing earlier every new generation is no bad thing, is it?) goves them the opportunity to make informed decisions, about their bodies, and their lives.

we cannot stop these kids experimenting, as it's human nature, what we can do is give them the opportunity to have all the facts to hand when they make that decision.

My grandma became pregnant before marriage. When I asked about what reactions she got, she just shrugged, and said "I wasn't the first, and I won't be the last. It did happen, back then, it just wasn't talked about! Your grandpa and I were planning to marry in the summer of 1939, anyway; it just meant the wedding had to be brought forward a few months."

and elmariachi, your comments about it being 100% the girl's fault, if she has sex and falls pregnant are out of order. Did you not do biology at your school? If you read your biology text books, for mammaian reproduction, it needs two parties in the act to create a child:- the MALE and the FEMALE.

Are you seriously suggesting that the boy has no part in it?

to my knowledge, there was only one recorded incident, ever, in history where a woman concieved without a man being involved somewhere!!!!

it is as much the boy's responsibility to use protection as it is the girls'.

P "takes two to tango" T

There is a difference in having a part to play and knowing who carries the responsibility.

If for instance we use the analogy of credit cards, and lets say for the sake of argument the card is in your name. Now you and your partner decide to go on a spending spree and end up maxing the card out. Whose responsibility was it to manage the limit and avoid the spending spree ? Whose responsibility is it to then pay off the "debt" ? Sure your partner played his part, but ultimate responsibility is yours! Responsibility is one of those side effects of freedom and freechoice.

As alien as it seems, there are concepts such as Responsibility and Accountability.

I am certainly not saying that the male doesn't have a part to play in pregnancies, thats elementary biology. My issue is that the women who will be undoubtedly impacted by preganancy dont exercise their own interests and dont take responsibility for their own bodies.

When it comes to abortions, their feminist cohorts are constantly harking about how its the womans body and the womans choice etc etc. How many men have lost a son or a daughter because their partners didn't want to go through with it ? They have NO REAL say in the matter.

Well what goes around comes around. If women want the right to carry out abortions, well they should damn well accept the responsibility of having unprotected sex when not in a stable relationship!

I'm not talking about marriages, long term relationships nor relationships which have broken down, I'm referring to teenage girls who aren't married, aren't in a stable relationship and who end up getting pregnant.

PT - you're spot on. I think there needs to be a shift in emphasis away from girls and women having to take responsibility and place this more on men/boys. Can they really be sure that girl is on the pill? No. So its up to them to insist on using their own protection - and what's more, it protects both of them from disease!
Also what about upholding the law on under-age sex...does that not happen anymore? I don't remember seeing anything about it being no longer illegal.
That could possibly stop a few gym-slip mums.

Also what about upholding the law on under-age sex...does that not happen anymore? I don't remember seeing anything about it being no longer illegal.
That could possibly stop a few gym-slip mums.

Very difficult in practice Joanl. I think we'd be better off trying to create an environment in which young women feel that they can have higher expectations in life than having kids in their teens. Not easy either....