Is this a real threat or just a perceived threat in the west.one, devonshire green, headford area?

I have lived in 3 different properties in and around this area for over 5 years and the only trouble i have had is a few menacing stares.

I know 2 people that have been mugged by somalis (one on Victoria St and one near the school playground) but these both took place well after midnight but other than that I haven't seen or heard anything.

Interested to hear people's views or details of any incidents

i know that it can be scary but i aint had any problems, like u said just a few stares.

Originally posted by ultracynic
Is this a real threat or just a perceived threat in the west.one, devonshire green, headford area?

I have lived in 3 different properties in and around this area for over 5 years and the only trouble i have had is a few menacing stares.

I know 2 people that have been mugged by somalis (one on Victoria St and one near the school playground) but these both took place well after midnight but other than that I haven't seen or heard anything.

Interested to hear people's views or details of any incidents

How did the victims know the muggers were Somalians as opposed to Ethiopian, Morroccan or any other nationality? Did they say "hey we're Somalian muggers. now hand over your cash"? Or perhaps your mates were expert in facial characteristics of North African races.

I'm being a tad facetious... Sorry.

Originally posted by E-Man Groovin
How did the victims know the muggers were Somalians as opposed to Ethiopian, Morroccan or any other nationality? Did they say "hey we're Somalian muggers. now hand over your cash"? Or perhaps your mates were expert in facial characteristics of North African races.

I'm being a tad facetious... Sorry.

It just had to come didn't it.....'how do you know', closely followed I daresay by 'rascist' and 'victimisation'.

thats a good point

Up until 2 weeks ago I lived in Broomhall and always used to walk from there into town and back at all times of day and night. I never experienced or saw anything bad at all, mainly just kids playing basketball etc.
I also used to walk around the flats near Broomhall and although it looks like a place you would see trouble i never saw anything. I now live in west one which is again in that area. Although I have never seen any trouble I still wouldn't let my girlfriend walk through there on her own.

Originally posted by Mo
It just had to come didn't it.....'how do you know', closely followed I daresay by 'rascist' and 'victimisation'.

Don't be so cynical Mo. :nono:

There has in the past been a bit of a battle with some Somali youths on Broomspring who seem to think they are the new city centre mafia. I think that the Police are pretty much on top of it from what I hear.

yeah I think its safe to say the gangs in the areas are majoritarily somali.

How do I know this - well I see them all the time, and yes I know they are somali.

I used to walk through there all the time last year when going towards collegiate. I got threatened once for my mobile. I told the guy to p*ss off, so he did. Sorry if i'm stereotyping here, but I doubt he was Somali as he was white, wearing scally/chav clobber (ie. a Rather tasteful sky blue shell suit), and spoke pretty good English with a Yorkshire accent. I actually quite liked that area. there were always loads of kids (of different races) playing footy and basketball. I thought it was a positive thing seeing such integration of people from completely different backgrounds without any tension.

Then again, maybe i've been hugging too many trees!

Originally posted by Tony
Don't be so cynical Mo. :nono:



I do try Tony, honest.

I patrol up by West one and around the Broomhall/Broomspring estate and I haven't seen many problems in the day. However, I have spoke to a couple of residents and they do seem pleased that we are patrolling around.

The fact is - lots of these crimes go unreported. You're never going to get a true representation of crime from reported figures.

Give it a go, walk through that area after dark and report your findings back to this board - when you recover.

Only trouble i've ever had walking through there at night was with the BBC.

I have effectively carried out that study internetowl. Pretty much walked through there every night last year. Even at silly o'clock in the morning. My findings are indicated in my first post in this thread.

I think that, to be on the safe side, we should assume that all Somalians are muggers.
When you see one cross to the other side of the road.
They will soon get the message. How dare they bring this gang culture to our beatiful, peaceful city centre. Why can't they leave us to get p***ed, vomit and fight in peace without the fear of being mugged.

Originally posted by sham71
I think that, to be on the safe side, we should assume that all Somalians are muggers.
When you see one cross to the other side of the road.
They will soon get the message. How dare they bring this gang culture to our beatiful, peaceful city centre. Why can't they leave us to get p***ed, vomit and fight in peace without the fear of being mugged.

exactly Sham, I mean it has worked for us for centuries - why should we have to change the habbit of lifetimes?
I mean aren't these somalians putting our own white muggers out of busines...the cheek of it :confused:

Originally posted by sham71
I think that, to be on the safe side, we should assume that all Somalians are muggers.
When you see one cross to the other side of the road.
They will soon get the message. How dare they bring this gang culture to our beatiful, peaceful city centre. Why can't they leave us to get p***ed, vomit and fight in peace without the fear of being mugged.

To be safer still, assume all black people are Somalian then go to assumption 1 from sham71.

Except, of course, if you find them committing burglary in your house in which case they'll be Kosovans.

O.k I live on an estate which aint too bad it has community spirit and the big kids look out for the little kids ect. I moved here a couple of years ago and at the time there were 3 somali families on the estate ,how do I know ?because I supported a few of them in school so I got to know their backgrounds ect.The families have slowly had to move off the estate because of the trouble they have caused. My kids have been at the hands of this a few times .My kids would play in the garden and the somali children would throw bottles of urine at them out of the window (nice)or swear at them ect. Approaching the parents a total waste of time the only words I could understand were beginning with an f and ending with off!! They slowy caused trouble with the wrong kind of kids and as a result got terrorised.I was often subjected to stares from the fathers of these children and made to feel uncomfortable as I walked past ,the men are very intimidating and the boys I found also looked down on women .I dont think I would have to go take a look for myself I have already had a taste of how hey are towards white women in paticular. So go on call me racist but I found that I was the victim of rascism not them .Remember it works both ways !!

Nobody is saying that all Somalis are saints. Just that they aren't all muggers.
Do you think that your experience proves anything about the nature of Somalis?
If so, then Peter Sutcliffe says a lot about the nature of Yorkshire men.

Everyone has the right to discuss their problems and fears, but you can't generalise about whole groups of society.

I have a feeling we got two posts crossing over here...but anyway.

This is the problem. My grandad considered himself racist. He accepted it, he also had his reasons why very much similar to PW. The generalisations are common amongst ALL communities regardless of race/colour.creed. Anyone seen Bend it like beckham and the generalisations made about the white population???
It happens both ways from all sides are we saying that we should deny our humanity?

In relation to PW post on the attitude of men to women, are the somalians the ones who have all females circumcised (sp?)??

Moon Maiden

Originally posted by prettywoman1
PARTIAL AMOUNT QUOTED BY "prettywoman1"

Remember it works both ways !!

Indeed, however true, but in this ever-growing "PC" society the autorities police etc have to "take sides" with the ethnic minority. Don't know if you get it with SY Police but our Met. are often getting a b**locking on London Tonight - well not by them but by the "criminal" I.e "You are only arresting me because I am black".

Where am I even going with this??.... Oh well...

Alex

I am not saying that all Somalis are like that I am just sharing my experience. I wish I had'nt bothered because you obviously think you are totally right and I am totally wrong so you just get on with it !It's funny but I thought people were entitled to their own opinion but you keep dissing people about theirs !!This is the very thing that puts me off replying to threads like this we instantly get catogorized !

sorry Pretty but I honestly think Sham was just putting forward another viewpoint.

It is so easy to jump the gun.

I watched a programe a while back now about that subject Moon Maiden it was horrific and the only way I can describe it is CHILD ABUSE! It was the worse thing I have ever seen in my life and to say it's to do with religion is ridiculous !!But enough said this is going off the original subject oops!!

Maybe I did jump MoonMaiden but I wont be branded a racist because I'M NOT !!I am entitled to share my experience of somalian people .I am not saying they are all the same I know they arn't .I was simply adding my bit as it were .

sorry, pretty...I wasn't calling you racist, just questioning the whole generalisation of this thread.

Perhaps someone can explain to me what good it does for a load of people to post threads about their negative experiences of a particular section of society.

Subconciously, it leaves an image of that group that people then take into their every day lives. It breeds fear. Anyone of us that walks through Devonshire Geen tonight and sees a Somalian will view them differently.

Maybe we should pick a different group each day to pick on then we can fear everybody (like the Daily Mail wants us to)

From mine and friends experience Somalian gangs have been a problem for a long time now.

2 Somalians tryed mugging me and a friend once with a knife whilst I was in a phone box at Devonshire Green but they failed.

I've seen them spit on white girls in the street.

I've seen numbers of 7 or 8 of them go walk round town (Devonshire Green) especially taking phones/wallets of kids younger than them.

I've seen them shoot fireworks/throw stones at people, even an OAP once.

I've seen a number of attacks started by somalian youths on Devonshire Green.

I've seen these things for myself and I've met a fair few of their victims. How do I know they are Somalian? A few of them went to the same school as me. And I'm sure if you hear/speak to them it's quite clear they are Somalian.

Most of the things I've seen happen are when being near Devonshire Green. There seems to be a CCTV camera on there now and things seem to be a little more tame.

I don't think the fact that a lot of incidents occuring around Devonshire Green involve Somalian people is necesarily anything to do with them being Somalian... rather that there are a great deal of Somalian families living in the area, particularly on the Sunnybank and Broomsping estates. Similarly, most of the trouble on the Manor has been involving gangs of white youths... because the majority of people on the Manor seem to be white.

I walked through the town centre last night, and all the fights I saw were between white people.

Originally posted by Patchy
I don't think the fact that a lot of incidents occuring around Devonshire Green involve Somalian people is necesarily anything to do with them being Somalian... rather that there are a great deal of Somalian families living in the area, particularly on the Sunnybank and Broomsping estates. Similarly, most of the trouble on the Manor has been involving gangs of white youths... because the majority of people on the Manor seem to be white.

I walked through the town centre last night, and all the fights I saw were between white people.

I completely agree.

[
I walked through the town centre last night, and all the fights I saw were between white people. [/B]

All the Somalis were at Broomhill mugging people

Originally posted by Internetowl
All the Somalis were at Broomhill mugging people

Really? What did they take from you then? I walked through Broomhall on my way back, and they didn't mug me!

Originally posted by Internetowl
All the Somalis were at Broomhill mugging people

That really wasn't much help to the thread whatsoever, was it?

Let me say that I live near devonshire green and I have not had any trouble from somalis or anyone else for that matter.
What I do see is loads of students getting drunk and making a nuasance of themselves.

How do you know they are students?

Tony,

Are you sure you are a moderator?

Following Roy around the forum and objecting to everything he types doesn't seem very moderate to me.

Originally posted by 1Man&hisBMW
and yes I know they are somali.

How do you know?

Originally posted by Fiona
Tony,

Are you sure you are a moderator?

Following Roy around the forum and objecting to everything he types doesn't seem very moderate to me.

Hi Fiona :) If you hang around long enough you should understand why. Maybe you could try the search function to check his posting history for a little more background.

Anyway, I don't have my moderator hat on very often with Roy. We love each other really ;)

its ok Fiona he loves it trying to get me going trouble is he hasn't a hope in hell.
But he's a mod so leave it to him lol

Originally posted by sham71
Perhaps someone can explain to me what good it does for a load of people to post threads about their negative experiences of a particular section of society.

Makes other members of society aware and watch their backs !

well its a good job they are a different colour. If they were white, we might need to do what the germans did with the jews and make them wear some distinguishing mark.

Hi sham71,

Goos question posed by you about what benefits are given by postings about negative experiences that people have with a section of society.

Well, let's look at this in a slightly different way.

If people have been exposed to a section of society and tht exposure has been bad, then people will obviously post their experiences and whilst it is a gross generalisation it is their perceived view of that group - unless the poster has any other agenda / axes to grind.

If in a certain area of the city people feel threatened by members of a minority, even though that minority are (by definition) vastly fewer in number than the 'majority' population, then either the poster is being overly sensitive or that group is more prominent in it's perceived agression than other groups.

In parts of major US cities there is a general warning from the police to take care in certain areas of the city not to get involved in rucks with youths wearing gang colours. Here we might avoid groups of boot wearing skinheads, leather clad Hell's Angels or whatever because of that perceived threat.

If people perceive a threat based on skin colour, then it doesn't automatically make them racists - just scared people. Of course, they may be racist, but groups of young men hanging around on streets, looking aggressive, is likley to scare anyone, irrespective of colour.

It's a two way street - if gangs of youths of any persuasion want to hang around looking tough, they're going to have to put up with being labelled as trouble by others. If they want to come over as 'belonging', then perhaps they need to change their behaviour just as much as the people scared of them may nede to change some aspects of their ways of looking at the world.

Joe

There was a problem with Somali teenagers mugging people in the Safeway car park area and the nearby underpass on a regular basis a couple of years ago. (and chucking bricks through pub windows)

Personally I think we have enough home grown scum without importing more. Any refugee/asylum seeker guilty of violent offences should be sent home after serving their sentence. The two Shefield based Iraqi's recently foung guilty of rape should be sent back, war zone or not. The ruling that lets them stay is wrong.

I also think that thugs who attack hapless asylum seekers should also be banged up for very long stretches as well. (before anyone thinks I'm being discriminatory)

The thought would never have crossed our minds.... :rolleyes:

I take it from your last comment that rapists, drug dealers, muggers, human traffickers etc and any other violent criminals who have shown contempt for the hospitality, safety and sanctuary offered to them should be allowed to stay?
We should take a leaf out of Bobby Kennedy's book..... he sent dozens of Mafia criminals packing back to Sicily and was the first person to try and clean up organised crime in the US

Originally posted by Ned Ludd
I take it from your last comment that rapists, drug dealers, muggers, human traffickers etc and any other violent criminals who have shown contempt for the hospitality, safety and sanctuary offered to them should be allowed to stay?

Allowed to stay??? You mean that all 'rapists, drug dealers, muggers, human traffickers etc' come from somewhere else??

I don't understand why you were worried someone might think you are discriminating. :rolleyes:

I'm not suggesting that all asylum seekers are criminals or that all crime is committed by asylum seekers, or that they commit a disproportionate amount of crime in this country.
I am merely asking if they should be allowed to stay in this country if they commit serious crimes particularly those of a violent nature as seems to be current policy.
I say NO. You haven't expressed a direct opinion yet, unless your subtlety eludes me

if they'd have committed the same crimes in their own contries they'd have had body parts removed...or worse.

Send them back - we've become a dumping ground for the world's criminal classes...

I think criminals should be locked up if they are a danger to society... simple as that... don't care where they are from or what colour skin they have.

I don't believe i would send someone back to a country where they could be killed because they stole a car or a mobile phone.

If we have accepted them into our country we can't turn around and change our mind if they do something bad.

There may be an argument for not allowing them in to begin with, but that is another topic all together.

Originally posted by Snook

If we have accepted them into our country we can't turn around and change our mind if they do something bad.


Of course we can. If we decided to let them in we can decide to let them out!!!

Originally posted by Internetowl
Send them back - we've become a dumping ground for the world's criminal classes...

What a ridiculous thing to say. :roll:


Incidently, have you ever been to the Costa del Sol? Full of English thugs and criminals.

Last time I was in the Sol, there was lots of West Africans selling stuff - bloody pains in the ass.

As for the English thugs - Spain are welcome to them...

Originally posted by Internetowl
As for the English thugs - Spain are welcome to them...

surely they should be sent back to where they came from and then all the remaining English people should be watched very closely for similar behaviour.....

Originally posted by Internetowl

Send them back - we've become a dumping ground for the world's criminal classes...

I take it that isn't a fact based statement is it?

Originally posted by Snook
I don't believe i would send someone back to a country where they could be killed because they stole a car or a mobile phone.

If we have accepted them into our country we can't turn around and change our mind if they do something bad.


Not even if they've hijacked an aeroplane, like what happened at Stanstead, consequently they claimed asylum and were refused, now the ruling has been overturned, because sending them back to their country of origin would inflict their human rights. What about the human rights of the people they abused whilst hijacking the plane. Is this type of people you would like living here ?

I agree with Snook - all those found guilty of crimes should be treated equally, asylum seeker or not.

Mega Monty I take your point but this is an extreme example. Most people coming to this country don't hijack planes.

Considering what happened with the Standsted fiasco it doesn't serve much of a deterrent to anyone else considering trying the same thing.

I've a lot of sympathy with the plane hijackers who's lives were desperate and probably under threat of death at home.
I think there's nothing to suggest that those people are likely to be criminals in the usual sense and after all, their offence didn't originate in the UK but in lawless Afghanistan.
However anyone who is granted asylum is actually being afforded safety, protection and sanctuary from threats of torture, false imprisonment etc. If they then carry out acts of violence against the people affording that protection they should be packed off after serving their sentence.
All persons successfully applying for assylum should sign a declaration, recognising the likely ramifications of any breach of this "contract"
They have a duty based on gratitude and respect for the shelter and protection being offered to them. Criminals don't deserve equal treatment on this basis alone. The 2 violent rapes in Sheffield are a prime example of this (and let's not forget that most sex ofenders re-offend.) Are these men to be let loose in the streets of Sheffield in 4/5 years? It's a scandal that this is almot certainly what will happen
As to our resident thugs, that's another matter

Originally posted by Lickszz
Considering what happened with the Standsted fiasco it doesn't serve much of a deterrent to anyone else considering trying the same thing.

The 'hijackers' were trying to escape the Taleban.

A regime so bad that we carpet bombed Afghanistan to get rid of them (but only once they had been implicated in 9/11).

Does anyone seriously suggest they weren't desperate??

Originally posted by sham71
The 'hijackers' were trying to escape the Taleban.

A regime so bad that we carpet bombed Afghanistan to get rid of them (but only once they had been implicated in 9/11).

Does anyone seriously suggest they weren't desperate??

According to the powers that be the Taleban were harbouring terrorists.

Are you advocating others who are 'desperate' should resort to the same method? What kind of message does this send out?

Funny enough it's not the first time it has happened to Britain. The history is not encouraging to note.

In 1996 A gang of 6 Iraqis that hijacked a plane to Stansted lived in the UK on benefits for 4 years before they were eventually granted asylum in the UK and their jail sentences quashed. There was also a man involved in a 1982 Air Tanzania hijack who was granted asylum here after serving two years of a three-year jail sentence.

Remember what Jack Straw said was going to happen to the Afghanis.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/637729.stm

I wonder if he did conceptualize a £20 million legal bill.

this area - though now percieved as a more upmarket area - does still have background crime and violence problems. I have two female friends (one old and one young) who have been mugged in the area. And not at night either. I have had several friends who have had cars seriously trashed too - thought this has always been when using car park or street for overnight parking.

Some of the violence has been a result of Somali gangs. though there are some rally nice Somali people in the area too! (yes I did live there for a short time) - and had to persuade some of the Somali youths not to throw stones at windows, rock cars etc.
They seemed willing to try it on - but backed off when challenged!

I personally still like to visit the area for eating out etc but wouldn't choose live there. But if you do (everyone makes there own choice) I'd recommend the usual inner city security precautions - eg don't walk round chatting on mobile. Always lock car doors. leave nothing on display Keep wallets in inside pockets where they are not visible.
The area no more safe than some of the cities "dodgy" estates for all the slightly more upmarket marketing that has gone on recently

Originally posted by Snook


I don't believe i would send someone back to a country where they could be killed because they stole a car or a mobile phone.



I used to agree with your point here Snook, but now a member of my family has become a victim of mugging I would like to see the muggers dead. Yes, that's right, I hate them that much.

You see, in my eyes they have thrown away their rights to be classed as human and are merely rats (irrespective of who they are or where they come from). How do we deal with rats? Yes, you've got it.

In conclusion-

If they commit crime in the country which took them in, then they should be sent back and suffer the consequences. They've had their chance and blown it.

whilst I can understand the problems with immigrants I feel that they should be treated the same as anyone else........

Groups of any culture/nationality/race cause problems,

Its more a case of getting them to integrate.

I don't think this is particular a generic problemn of immigrants. More a particular problem in a particualar place.

Is a bit like the fact there is nothing wrong with football fans or with English people - but at certain times and in certain places a problem develops around "English football hooligans" that needs dealing with. And when it does you can't ignore the way the problem has developed
ie english football gangs in portugal
or somali gangs in devonshire green

you just have to be careful that dealing with the particular problem that has arisen does not lead you into stereotyping or an "over-the-top" response...

or to forget that most of the somali community are pretty good guys.

Reminds me of a situation i knew in Newcastle where a Pakistani drug dealing teenage group emerged in a deprived area - you could not ignore the fact that the gang used ethnic contacts to develop their network oir that they ruyled the roost in a particular ethnic area (same happens with white gangs) - but it would be wrong to extend suspicion to the whole of their community

Found this in todays Star, did a search & found thios thread from last year.

Do have a squint :cool:

http://www.sheffieldtoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=58&ArticleID=934936