I mean factually.

If dogs were as poisonous as your average dog-averse person would have you believe, there would be no question about guide dogs having to be excluded from restaurants.

If they're such an enormous health risk, we wouldn't be able to allow them on the premises, and other arrangements would need to be made to provide for those who rely on their assistance dog.

So.... Just to find out exactly how much of a risk dogs really are, I'm posting a poll.... (and it's multi-choice btw)

The group most at risk from dogs must be their owners, as they have most contact with dogs..... ;)

The only health risk that i'm aware of is the toxiplasmosis thingy (if I remembered it correctly) that you can get from dog poo.

You can get it from cat poo too, but that didn't make it into the papers from a kid in Blackpool catching it :roll:

and anyway, that isn't from dog poo, it's from worms in dog poo :suspect:

note: error in poll rectified

only salmonella?

Ok, what have you caught from your dog Cyclone?

Why do pubs that sell food allow cats to roam allover surfaces used for food preparation?

They'd never put Fido up there & cats are are as germ ridden.

IMO Big sloppy dog-kisses make you immune to illness. I haven't had a cold or an upset stomach in years.

I've always had dogs and cats, got 3 dogs at the mo and I dont get many illnesses interesting enough my two children grew up wth the dogs, and they very rarely got a cold or any of the illnesses their friends without animals always seemed to be catching, I;m sure they help build up your immunity.

Ok, what have you caught from your dog Cyclone?

nothing, i just wondered why salmonella was singled out.

I am slightly allergic to his fir, if I stroke him and then rub my eyes it makes them go bloodshot and very sore/itchy.

had dogs all my life.
never had anything related to having dogs,cats,budgies,guinea pigs,rabbits etc etc.

oh sorry do flea bites count?

No idea factually but as far as I'm concerned the health benefits far outweight the health risks.

It has been proven that owning a dog can bring down your blood pressure and relieve stress (although in my case I'm sure that they bring my blood pressure up!) Also, my dogs' antics make me laugh so much and laughing releases endorphins, also good for your health.

IF there is a risk of salmonella (which I knew nothing about!) then just be more careful. Clear up after your dogs muddy paw prints and don't let them on food preparation surfaces.

It will never cease to amaze me the amount of people who allow their cats on the worktops. Our cats were swiped off of our worktops as kittens and have grown up to know that they're not allowed up there. Even when they've been shut in the kitchen by mistake with food on the worktop they haven't gotten up there.

nothing, i just wondered why salmonella was singled out.It's salmonella that's the primary reason for excluding dogs from food retailing outlets - being a stomach bug germ, and being slobber borne

I am slightly allergic to his fur, if I stroke him and then rub my eyes it makes them go bloodshot and very sore/itchy.
Perhaps you shouldn't stroke them then? People who are allergic to peanuts don't eat them. They haven't demanded that peanuts be banned from all shops and retaurants :roll:

had dogs all my life.
never had anything related to having dogs,cats,budgies,guinea pigs,rabbits etc etc.

oh sorry do flea bites count?
You've a better chance of getting a flea bite from a carpet flea in a department store than from a well cared for dog who somebody has enough regard for to take everywhere with them


IF there is a risk of salmonella (which I knew nothing about!) then just be more careful. Clear up after your dogs muddy paw prints and don't let them on food preparation surfaces.
It's carried in their saliva (if they are carrying it at all), so really, so long as the waiting staff don't stop to fuss your dog before returning to the kitchen, how is contamination going to reach anybody's plate?

And have you seen the hygiene of some people? :gag:

Perhaps health and safety laws should provide for a handwashing sink at the entrance to any catering establishment? and patrons legally obliged to make use of them? You've no idea where they've had their hands before they enter :gag:

Maybe you've got the wrong end of the stick strix.
I just don't rub my eyes after stroking him, it makes more sense. I haven't suggested than anything be banned, so I don't really understand what you're getting at.

Sorry Cyclone, my thread's about the supposed reasons for banning dogs from certain otherwise public places, and I'd assumed your allergy was being given as a reason to exclude them ;)

Yes it really annoys me that I'm not allowed to take Gadget into places! Personally I think he is probably much better behaved and much cleaner than most people's children, and they're allowed everywhere so why isn't he?!
Any germs he has picked up on his paws won't be any different to what other people will have on the bottom of their shoe!

Oh, maybe it should explain that in the first post?
I thought it was just about whether they could make people ill or not.

IMO Big sloppy dog-kisses make you immune to illness. I haven't had a cold or an upset stomach in years.
Thats very interesting...
I haven't had one cold or other illness since we got Gadget last December - and I'm usually so prone to them (to the point where my Mum was like "oh you've not got another cold have you? You've always got a cold!".
I think that living with a dog helps build up your general resistance to germs. Could be all that healthy fresh air and exercise on walks too I suppose!

IMO Big sloppy dog-kisses make you immune to illness. I haven't had a cold or an upset stomach in years.
It depends on the state of your immune system and what bugs the dog might be carrying.

Most people's immune systems are healthy enough to cope with a low dose of a bug which could have the potential to cause a mild stomach upset, for example. However, if you're unfortunate enough to receive a kiss from a dog while your immune sytem is compromised (if you're stressed, taking certain medications, have exercised very intensely recently etc), a fairly innocuous bug might cause an infection of some description.

Additionally, the range of bugs with which the immune system can deal is genetically determined. As such, some folk may have what's known as a 'hole in the repetoire', which means that they are particularly susceptible to some bugs. Dogs (and cats) tend to root around in soil, which can be chock full of pathogens with varying levels of virulence. A hole in the immunological repetoire, or a virulent bug on the end of the dog's nose, might lead to an infection.

Then again, you've got a similar chance of coming across pathogens while gardening. I wouldn't let anyone kiss me while they were covered in soil - dogs or humans :) .

early exposure to certain things is thought to prime a childs immune system for life.
That's one theory behind the rise in asthma, hayfever, exma etc... that modern homes are actually kept too clean and the immune system is never primed early in life (it doesn't work later, you just get ill then).

early exposure to certain things is thought to prime a childs immune system for life.
That's one theory behind the rise in asthma, hayfever, exma etc... that modern homes are actually kept too clean and the immune system is never primed early in life (it doesn't work later, you just get ill then).
Yes, this theory has been around for about 15 years or so. It deals mainly (and some would say exclusively) with allergies not pathogenic bacteria, viruses etc.

So..... surely you've a better chance of picking up flu from the person on the next table in the pub or restaurant than you have of catching anything from a dog sitting under the table?

Should we therefore ban people from these establishments? :D

So..... surely you've a better chance of picking up flu from the person on the next table in the pub or restaurant than you have of catching anything from a dog sitting under the table?

Should we therefore ban people from these establishments? :D

If a person with flu sneezes or coughs on you, and you inhale the droplets, there's a good chance that you'd get flu (if you hadn't previously had that strain of flu). Similarly, if an infected (or 'carrier') dog gives you a big lick, such that you inhaled/ingested the saliva droplets, or if it drools onto food that you subsequently eat, then there's a similar chance of coming down with something too.

Well given the fact that being licked by said dog would be comparable to snogging said flu carrier, the risk is miniscule.

The highest risk to hygene is therefore dog owners who have been licked prior to their arrival at the catering establishment, and who intend to put cuttlery in their mouths. How exactly is that risk to be legislated against?

Actually, I'd ban people with flu from restaurants too :hihi: .

If you can guarentee that the dog in question doesn't smell of dog (especially when wet), won't attempt to steal the food from my plate, won't dash around the restaurant hitting folk with its madly wagging tail, won't attempt to mate with my leg, won't shed fur anywhere near me and won't trigger my allergies, then s/he'd be more than welcome in any restaurant I frequent ;) .

Actually, I'd ban people with flu from restaurants too :hihi: .

If you can guarentee that the dog in question doesn't smell of dog (especially when wet), won't attempt to steal the food from my plate, won't dash around the restaurant hitting folk with its madly wagging tail, won't attempt to mate with my leg, won't shed fur anywhere near me and won't trigger my allergies, then s/he'd be more than welcome in any restaurant I frequent ;) .
Actualy i can see your point there Hecate, i have 3 dogs of my own and i love them dearly, but i wouldn't think it fair to impose them on the general public in a restaurant, and really i do not see the need for them to be there, sitting under a table quietly for over an hour is not really a dogs idea of a fun night out.

Oh yes and i also have 3 cats and 2 rabbits, rarely get ill with colds and even rarer with tummy troubles, i do have mild asthma though but with polution being what it is today what do you blame really? i brought up 2 healthy children, from small babies in a house full of animals they are now healthy men ... says it all to me. :thumbsup:

Neither of those posts Hecate/Moonbird are grounds for legislation against the presence of dogs.

If legislation is to be based on dislike (which it seems to be in the case of dogs) then surely that just provides for the exclusion of children, non-white people, men........

If dogs are such germy killers, then guide dogs cannot possibly be admitted to catering establishments either - which just isn't the case (and have you smelt wet labrador? :gag: )

Yes it really annoys me that I'm not allowed to take Gadget into places! Personally I think he is probably much better behaved and much cleaner than most people's children

Hear Hear We were up in North Yorkshire on Saturday and at lunchtime to escape the pouring rain we went into a pub, we asked if our dog was ok to be there and yes she was. Due to a lack of space we had to share a table with another couple and I asked if they were ok with our dog being there, they were. Whilst we were eating our dog lay by the table and made no noise and didn;t bother anybody............................if only the same could be said for some kids

Neither of those posts Hecate/Moonbird are grounds for legislation against the presence of dogs.

If legislation is to be based on dislike (which it seems to be in the case of dogs) then surely that just provides for the exclusion of children, non-white people, men........

If dogs are such germy killers, then guide dogs cannot possibly be admitted to catering establishments either - which just isn't the case (and have you smelt wet labrador? :gag: )
No i do not think that dogs should be actualy banned, and now and then its nice to just nip into say a pub with a dog iv'e done it myself, but i do think if possible people should not really take them on a regular basis.

No i do not think that dogs should be actualy banned, and now and then its nice to just nip into say a pub with a dog iv'e done it myself, but i do think if possible people should not really take them on a regular basis.
Why? What is 'a regular basis'? And what are you expected to do with your dog if you've taken it on holiday with you? And don't tell me about locking it in the car, because we often holiday by train ;)

Why? What is 'a regular basis'? And what are you expected to do with your dog if you've taken it on holiday with you? And don't tell me about locking it in the car, because we often holiday by train ;)
Well a regular basis as in taking the dog a lot i suppose, surely though if you take the dog away with you things being as they are you can expect a certain degree of difficulty in being able to go where ever you want to when your want to? thats just parr for the course , not everyone likes dogs.... and apart from that what if lots of people took their dogs, they would be fighting and god knows what :o , seriously how can anyone relax and enjoy a meal like that? i'm far from anti dog and i wouldn't like to see a ban at all but there does have to be common sense applied.

Can we just digress back to the topic we started with for a mo?

I did ask whether there were genuinely any public health reasons for banning dogs from catering establishments, not what peoples' personal preferences were.

I doubt very much whether there's a single person on this forum who doesn't have some gripe or other with something they'd rather didn't happen (a housing estate with no children? What? :rant: )

If we all got our own way with regards to restricting each other, where exactly would we all be? :confused:

Well a regular basis as in taking the dog a lot i suppose, surely though if you take the dog away with you things being as they are you can expect a certain degree of difficulty in being able to go where ever you want to when your want to? thats just parr for the course , not everyone likes dogs.... and apart from that what if lots of people took their dogs, they would be fighting and god knows what :o , seriously how can anyone relax and enjoy a meal like that? i'm far from anti dog and i wouldn't like to see a ban at all but there does have to be common sense applied.
Is France the maddest country on the planet then? Is it unbearable in it's tolerance towards dog owners?

The only 'problem' is that legislation has been created based on peoples' prejudices and not based on genuine facts. Other instances of this have been overruled in recent years thanks to extensive lobbying and hectoring by the affected parties - and arguably the world is a better place for it :)

Is France the maddest country on the planet then? Is it unbearable in it's tolerance towards dog owners?

Never been to France and know little about it so cannot comment i'm afraid.
In answer to your previous post no i don't think dogs are a significant health hazaed in a resturaunt, and no we don't need legislation ....hope that clears my feelings up a bit.

Thanks Moonbird ;)