I work in prisons & have done for many years, not in the UK but in Australia & believe me if the prison system in the UK is anything like it is here then forget prison being a deterent for anyone. It is increasingly the feeling among all prison officers here that we are the bad guys & the criminals are the poor unfortunate people who have had their freedom taken off them. The whole system is a joke & no one here serves the time they are actually sentenced to. People are not frightened to go to jail anymore. Its sad but true.
To the person who feels so bad about possible prevention had you taken a more active role, don't feel bad we are all wise in hindsight & just think on it could be you now that is dead had you been trying to prevent it or been dragged through the courts for many a month to possibly see someone walk away at the end of it all with not being held responsible. Its funny how these things turn out. But there is nothing to blame yourself for.
Yes my sympathy goes to the poor girls family & lets all hope that justice gets done by at least the person gets caught.

Janet Olsen.

I don't think there is an answer, Capital punishment didn't stop people being stabbed, the only thing it did was to stop these same people doing it again, and what about those who have been found to be innocent years later? theres no way back for them. Having said that I don't condone this behaviour and think that once convicted life should mean life, and not 10 years and then out on license as in the case of those two who murdered Jamie Bulger in Liverpool, who now enjoy complete anonimity with the backing of the courts.

owdlad.

I once heard a murderer being interviewed about capital punishment. He said capital punishment won't reduce the number of murders because there are two types of murder; pre-mediated and spur of the moment.

If a murder is pre-meditated, it's planned and the murderer therefore thinks they won't get caught. Spur of the moment murderers don't think about the consiquences, so won't be worried by the thought of capital punishment.

Capital punishment's just a way of getting revenge. Nothing more.

Originally posted by Jim
How do you know that the threat of capital punishment would have prevented this terrible incident?

She wouldn't do it again.

If we as a society start killing people, are we any better than them?

Originally posted by Snook
If we as a society start killing people, are we any better than them?

No.

And that's why they got rid of capital punishment in the first place... There are arguments for bringing it back, but personally I doubt it'll ever happen.

Can't you just tell EXACTLY where this thread's headed?

It's the hang 'em & flog 'em brigade against the "let's try and understand them" crew yet again, isn't it?

In a country where the rights of the criminal are regularly placed higher than those of the victim, where parents aren't allowed to smack their kids anymore and where you're virtually powerless to take action against an intruder in your own home (I fully realise that max, Tony, et al will strongly disagree with these points), what chance do you think there is of the death penalty returning?

For those of you crying out for a return to capital punishment, I'd say the odds of that happening are somewhere between zero and bugger-all.

Originally posted by mojoworking

For those of you crying out for a return to capital punishment, I'd say the odds of that happening are somewhere between zero and bugger-all.

I realise that Mojo but whats the alternative?

Clearly the threat of prison is no deterrrent at all or prison populations would be falling.

If I thought that keeping somebody locked up for 10/20 plus years was going to alter their personality and behaviour for the better then I might buy the argument that prison was the best option, but prison doesn't work.

Maybe we could look at prevention rather than cure. Something is making people so angry or frightened that they feel the need to carry a knife. If harsher punishment worked, why has america got more prisoners that the rest of the work put together? They have capital puniushment, certainly doesn't stop murder.:confused:

In this case I doubt that the girl involved stopped to think before the attack and came to the conclusion that a gaol sentence is OK, therefore stabbing this person is OK. The threat of a death penalty would have made no difference.

From another point of view, if I was the guilty party, i'd prefer to get death penalty than a life prison sentence. death would be the easy way out in my thinking. when i say life imprisonment, I mean life, in a cell with no rights.

So what do we do in the meantime? nowt?
Yes, we have to look at the causes but we can't let the murderer (because that's exactly what she is - you cannot accidently take a knife into a club and accidently push it into someone) go unpunished.

I very much doubt she will go unpunished. :loopy:

And yes I agree Andy78, a life in prison would be worse than a quick death.. if thats what life meant.

Okay.. what do you call punishment?

Originally posted by mojoworking
Can't you just tell EXACTLY where this thread's headed?

I saw this and thought at last someone is going to head off the usual lets hang 'em brigade and prevent this thread being hijacked and degenerating into an argument that's been hashed over many times before. But no, I was sadly mistaken. Shame really.

Back on thread, is this another example of the results of binge drinking? Is it time that we stopped licensed premises from offering cut price drinks, happy hours and 2 for the price of 1 offers? How do we reclaim our city centres for the more moderate drinkers?

I have to admit I'm lost for ideas and tend now to not come into the city centre at night unless I can avoid it.

I think we should look at prevention as well as cure. As a child I knew that if I did wrong I was punished. I then had to decide if the punishment I would get was worth the risk. The law today offers hardly any threat of meaningful punishment so the bad uns are happy to take the chance. Only when the law makes things bad for the wrong-doers will they perhaps think twice. Make prison so harsh that they wouldn't want to go back, and when they've served their time, then look to offer some help. Protect the victims first, not the criminals.

Originally posted by max
I have to admit I'm lost for ideas and tend now to not come into the city centre at night unless I can avoid it.

Me likewise Max. But doesn't that make the situation worse in some ways as decent folk who might exert a moderating influence move out and hand the city centre over to hoodlums like this?

You see the topic of this thread makes me assess whats gone before and how we've arisen here.

As a society we are much more liberal with regards to discipline in that;

Capital punishment was banned.
Corporal punishment was banned in schools.
Smacking children within the home now frowned upon.

... but despite all this society is becoming more violent. Doesn't make sense
:loopy: :loopy:

If we follow somewhere like Texas, and re introduce the death penalty, it's possible that the occurrences of murder will follow the trend in Texas. By increasing.

Another point, my generation didn't get the cane in school, and most people that I know, of my generation are perfectly respectable and not criminals. I think we need to look at the changes in society as a whole, which doesn't just come down to how we are punished. I think it's a bit more complicated than that.

Anyways, driving back to sheffield now. back later. :wave:

Maybe its just me, but the thought of 10 years in prison... i'd rather be dead. There is no better reason for me to not break the law than going to prison.

I do think that in some ways society has become too soft. Personally i'd like to see the age at which you can go into a nightclub raised to 21. Maybe even raise the drinking age to that too.

Sorry Snook.. I just went off on one there.

I don't have an answer either. It's beyond me it really is.

I think we all feel the same, nobody wants to hear about horrible crimes like this, and nobody knows what is best to do. I do believe in a punishment to fit the crime, but i don't think you stop crimes with punishments.

Like i said, if that were the case there wouldn't be so many murders in America. There are actually usually fewer murders in the states without the death penalty.

I do think its important to not let fear take over, because i believe that only leads to more crime.

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Ollie, if you witnessed the incident, or part of it, then I suggest you call the South Yorkshire Police Murder Incident room on 0114 2964168 and explain what you saw.

You may think it's very insignificant, but the Police are gathering as much information as possible at the moment and your call could help and you can stay anonymous.

Cheers for that, to be honest i just got their number myself. Like you said i may have seen something they need to know. Ill give them a bell shortly.

I think a good place to start would be the actual venues themselves. There are cetain places in town where ther is NEVER any trouble. Ive seen more fights outside Flares from my balcony in the past 8 months than i ever had in 7 years of going out around Sheffield. And when you think about it, it is only one of a few "late bars" during the week, and its the cheapest.
Also, why not make bars/clubs have compulsory metal detectors like they have at Republic? I think they're a top idea. That way, if a weapon makes it into the club then a member of staff has to have helped get it in there?
At the end of the day, i doubt violence will ever come to an end, and i actually think it will get worse before it gets better!

Metal detectors aren't cheap and a lot of bar owners would rather not have to buy them, but I can see why they would be a good idea.

My mate's currently working with a few clubs and bars down south training drug dogs and then either selling them to them or hiring them and a handler for a night to stand on the doors.

The detection rate is excellent and the bars and clubs are really seeing value for their money.

I can understand that dogs sniffing for knives is probably not going to happen, but it does show that by putting money in security solutions you can cut trouble in your establishment and make it safer for your customers and staff.

But at the end of the day it seems that there will always be someone wanting to fight after a few beers. It's unfortunate but true and a shame for the rest of us that want to go out and have a good night with our mates as you have to watch out for these poeple that can't handle their drinks.

http://www.sheffieldtoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=58&ArticleID=819425

It's a waste of life and a vicious attack.

Hopefuly the girl arrested was the one that commited the offence and will be found guilty of it.

There's no reason that I am aware of why anyone would want to or should be carrying a kitchen knife on a night out. If the knife is there then there's every chance it could be used before the holder even reaslises what they've done and in this case it appears it was.

I don't go to Flairs, partly because it's not my sort of place and partly due to the reputation it's been getting recently as a more and more violent place to drink, although this is the first I've heard of such a serious incident related to it.

And recently there's been a bigger police presence in that area too, these people carrying out the violence don't seem to care and they are the type of people we need off the streets and away from the public.

Well I hope the Killer in question gets what she deserves! Which is bound to be more than what the 2 wasters that attacked and stabbed me 13 years ago ever got.. Charged with GBH and ABH, A slap on the wrist and £150 fine between em..

I have no faith in our Justice System. However, I don't agree with Capital Punishment, no one should be offered that easy way out! Make them suffer for what they have done..

Frustrated of Ranmoor!

I believe prison should strip the offender of all rights and priviledges... No Tv's, no books, no magazines, no visiting, no "Classes to help them change". Just small dark cells that force them to think about what they have done. It needs to be a scary prospect.

Sentences should not be reduced either, if they get sentenced 10 years then it should be 10 years and not a day less.

I agree though that in some cases where it's a spur of the moment thing it won't deter the offender, but for those that think about a crime before they do it...

That's right- prisons should be horrible, just like Alcatraz. That place makes you shiver, even when you see it from the bay- when you're inside it's something else... Certainly wouldn't have wanted to go there when it was open; horrible cells/food/guards, depressing high walled outdoor areas and no privileges or privacy whatsoever.

This is exactly how we should PUNISH these offenders, not reward them with a couple of months at Butlins with telly, counselling, training, etc. I'm firmly in the 'leave them to rot' camp- especially with murderers, they shouldn't *ever* get out again.

I certainly hope this young woman becomes example of what will happen to anyone who is prepared to seriously attack and kill another person.

Throw away the key.

From gpsy - My mate's currently working with a few clubs and bars down south training drug dogs and then either selling them to them or hiring them and a handler for a night to stand on the doors.

Why would that make any club / late bar any safer? I think we can be sure that if there was a catalyst for Wednesday nights incident it was the cheap alcohol ratehr than anyone smuggling in a spliff, pill or a line of coke. Certainly prevent people taking weapons into these places (what have we become when people go out for night armed...) but I think part of the motivation for people having sniffer dogs is to make sure punters spend loads on booze.

My retribution gene kicks in earlier than most, but you have to recognise that prisons / programs that rehabilitate have a far higher success rate in preventing reoffending than simply locking 'em up.

Unless you are genuinely going to 'throw away the key' and let people live out the rest of their lives in clink you have to rehabilitate, and yes, that includes treating people as humans, not animals.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=12&did=167

It's been said many times on this forum before.

Capital punishment does not work!!!!

Most of the people on death row have little or no education. They do not have the means to hire a lawyer themselves and end up using duty lawyers who are over worked. Paper work gets lost or not filed on time and innocent people sometimes end up being put to death due to this.

Are amnesty international a sinister or bad organisation??? If not then why are they supporting and working towards the abolition of the death penalty?

Originally posted by Tony
My retribution gene kicks in earlier than most, but you have to recognise that prisons / programs that rehabilitate have a far higher success rate in preventing reoffending than simply locking 'em up.

Unless you are genuinely going to 'throw away the key' and let people live out the rest of their lives in clink you have to rehabilitate, and yes, that includes treating people as humans, not animals.

Anyway, that's off topic.

I agree!

For anyone that doesn't, look up Mary Bell on a search engine and see if you change your mind.

Originally posted by bonny
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=12&did=167

It's been said many times on this forum before.

Capital punishment does not work!!!!

Most of the people on death row have little or no education. They do not have the means to hire a lawyer themselves and end up using duty lawyers who are over worked. Paper work gets lost or not filed on time and innocent people sometimes end up being put to death due to this.

Are amnesty international a sinister or bad organisation??? If not then why are they supporting and working towards the abolition of the death penalty?

Everything you say may be true. It just seems like the world's gone crazy when more time, money and energy is devoted to the perpetrators of crime, than the victims of crime. They are the ones who are routinely forgotten when we discuss these things

Originally posted by mojoworking
Everything you say may be true. It just seems like the world's gone crazy when more time, money and energy is devoted to the perpetrators of crime, than the victims of crime. They are the ones who are routinely forgotten when we discuss these things

Quite often though the perpatrators of crime are also the victims of it themselves.

Originally posted by bonny
Quite often though the perpatrators of crime are also the victims of it themselves.

That's just a tired, old social worker's argument. If the toe-rag junkie who mugs you in the street to feed his habit later pleads he was abused as a child, does that excuse his crime?

Originally posted by mojoworking
Everything you say may be true. It just seems like the world's gone crazy when more time, money and energy is devoted to the perpetrators of crime, than the victims of crime. They are the ones who are routinely forgotten when we discuss these things

This may be due to the fact that the newspapers tend to focus on the perpetrator rather than the victim. On those occasions where the victim is considered newsworthy it's usually because they too are criminals.

The support available to victims and their families is there it's just not reported.

As for discussions of victims, which is what you seem to think is missing, we rarely know enough about them to form opinions.

It would be an interesting development if the victim on Carver Street was the owner of the knife and was killed in self defence, wouldn't it? The vitriol directed at the so called murderer would look pretty silly but that's what we do isn't it? Blame first ask questions after. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Originally posted by max
Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

The problem with it is that there are a small number of people who are inevitably guilty.

The Police know who they are, and keep trying to get them off the streets. Unfortunately, our 'innocent until proven guilty' system actually does (in the main) work and they get off for some reason. They then end up back on the street and the Police have to do it all over again. The scrotes claim victimisation… I call it good policing. :thumbsup:

This particular type of low-life really would benefit from involuntary euthanasia.

I would still maintain that rehabilitation is a good thing... in the main.

Originally posted by mojoworking
That's just a tired, old social worker's argument. If the toe-rag junkie who mugs you in the street to feed his habit later pleads he was abused as a child, does that excuse his crime?

And if there were not any social workers around there would be much more abuse going on with no way of helping the victims. Feel free to state a few occurences that have been prinyed in the tabloids about social work gone wrong.

I am positive there are much more stories of the good that they have done.

As far as heroin addicts go, why are they using heroin? What caused them to start using heroin?
Surely you need to start at grass roots to change the way things are. A more proactive approach is better than a reactionary one of "kill em all".

Don't treat the symptoms, find a cure!

Originally posted by bonny
As far as heroin addicts go, why are they using heroin? What caused them to start using heroin?


I must remember bear that particular philosophical gem in mind the next time I'm being burgled, mugged or generally hassled in the street by low-life junkies! ;)

There but for the grace of God....

Originally posted by mojoworking
I must remember bear that particular philosophical gem in mind the next time I'm being burgled, mugged or generally hassled in the street by low-life junkies! ;)

Does this happen to you frequently then? Hmmm why is that?

Originally posted by bonny
Does this happen to you frequently then? Hmmm why is that?

Just unlucky, I guess :)

Originally posted by Snook
There but for the grace of God....

Yes, that's so very true. We shouldn't be too hard on the smackheads, after all, we could all turn into junkies overnight :loopy:

Originally posted by bonny
What caused them to start using heroin?
Stupidity?!

Chris.

Yeah, actually, any of us could have grown up to be a 'smackhead'. Has nothing to do with where you live or your parents or which school you went to. So you really shouldn't be so flip about it... someone close to you may be one someday.

Originally posted by bonny
As far as heroin addicts go, why are they using heroin? What caused them to start using heroin?
Surely you need to start at grass roots to change the way things are. A more proactive approach is better than a reactionary one of "kill em all".

Don't treat the symptoms, find a cure!

As you probably know anyway Bonny,

What is Heroin? It is Diamorphine, an extremely powerful opiate analgesic.

What does it do? It relieves pain. All kinds of pain.

Why do people take it? Because it makes all pain go away.

It's a painkiller, pure and simple. If you are in any kind of pain, psychic or physical, heroin will relieve you of it, and make you physically dependent over time.

As I have stated repeatedly elsewhere, to stop smack addicts stealing to fund an expensive habit, make the habit dirt cheap - legalize and give smack to smack addicts.

A single addict is often responsible for hundreds of burglaries in their area - a smack habit costs between £10 and £30K a year to support....

If you give free or cheap high quality heroin to addicts, then you will see a huge drop in burglaries and there will even be some healthcare savings.

This has been demonstrated in pilot studies, usually shut down after the Daily Mailed Fist or News of the Screws has some kind of 'expose' on how your "taxes are supporting filthy junkies in their evil quest to ensare your precious children in a web of evil deceit and exploitation". (I paraphrase)

Originally posted by Snook
Yeah, actually, any of us could have grown up to be a 'smackhead'. Has nothing to do with where you live or your parents or which school you went to. So you really shouldn't be so flip about it... someone close to you may be one someday.

I suspect you've possibly been hugging too many trees if that's your view.

No, maybe its just that i have real-life experience of things like this, obviously unlike you. I know for a fact it has nothing to do with those factors, through my own experiences, not just by sitting back and saying "all smackheads are evil and must have grown up on a council estate, and i blame the parents, and bring back hangin' even though its too good for 'em"

Off to hug trees now, gets rid of any aggression... the kind you seem to have built up against mankind.

Originally posted by Snook
No, maybe its just that i have real-life experience of things like this, obviously unlike you. I know for a fact it has nothing to do with those factors, through my own experiences, not just by sitting back and saying "all smackheads are evil and must have grown up on a council estate, and i blame the parents, and bring back hangin' even though its too good for 'em"

Off to hug trees now, gets rid of any aggression... the kind you seem to have built up against mankind.

You've made some huge assumptions there.

It's because of my first-hand experience of druggies that I have very little sympathy with them.

Basically I don't care how much heroin they take, just as long as they don't fund their habit with a life of crime which hurts innocent people - which of course is inevitable.

You seem like a typical do-gooder: as usual you sympathise with the criminals more than the victims

Now you've made some huge assumptions.

I don't side with the criminals at all, and having been the victim of crime related to drugs, i have very little sympathy if they get sent to prison... but i know i could have turned out like that had i made the wrong choices... Maybe if i had i'd hope to get some help along the way to get my life back on track.

And since when was being a do-gooder a bad thing? Shouldn't we all do good?:D

Prison & Punishment... Heaven or Hell?

just a crazy thought,,,

funny how everyone wants to go to Heaven, but no one wants to die?

and as for prison being a deterent..

me personally think that being locked away from the public is not much of a deterant!
most criminals rarely do a full sentance and get early release.
the prisoners do get treated quite well and have things to pass time like libraries, gym's, and games rooms and cable TV, as well as being given work where they can earn a little money to save/spend.
they are also allowed visitors, (so not entirly cut off from the real world).

it works as a deterant for someone like me, as i would hate to have to be locked up with all the scum thats there,
and i couldent live without my t'internet :rolleyes:

P.S: druggies dont have to worry too much about being locked up either, apparantly drugs are smuggled in to prisons and are quite easily obtained:o

i think it would be more of a deterant if we stopped trying to help these people and started to treat them like the scum they are, the occasional beating/tourture coupled with solitary confinement and give them less to eat, after all its us the TAX payers who are paying for their laidback lifestyles
:mad:

Originally posted by Snook
Now you've made some huge assumptions.

I don't side with the criminals at all, and having been the victim of crime related to drugs, i have very little sympathy if they get sent to prison... but i know i could have turned out like that had i made the wrong choices... Maybe if i had i'd hope to get some help along the way to get my life back on track.

And since when was being a do-gooder a bad thing? Shouldn't we all do good?:D

oooh no, doing good is a wishy washy liberal tree hugging thing to do.

Jesus was a do gooder and look what happened to him. Just shows you, there's no good in doing good.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
oooh no, doing good is a wishy washy liberal tree hugging thing to do.

Jesus was a do gooder and look what happened to him. Just shows you, there's no good in doing good.

If only life were that simple.

What if, by thinking you were doing good, you were actually making things worse. Then your do-gooding wouldn't be doing any good at all. In fact it would be doing bad!

To sum up: in the immortal words of Frank Zappa - The geek shall inherit nothing!

Originally posted by mojoworking
If only life were that simple.

What if, by thinking you were doing good, you were actually making things worse. Then your do-gooding wouldn't be doing any good at all. In fact it would be doing bad!

To sum up: in the immortal words of Frank Zappa - The geek shall inherit nothing!
ill quote meatloaf here you took the words right out of my mouth:thumbsup:

After 17 years of working in prisons & I may add I don't work in a female jail either, I have worked in a male max: security jail for a few years. I still do not know how I feel about capital punishment. I do know though that we will NEVER keep people in jail for the rest of their natural lives & for one reason only. Its too expensive & more jails would have to be built. Money is what it is really all about not revenge not correction of behaviour not justice. It all really boils down to money. I do know that prisoners have opportunity in jail to educate them to a degree level & in some cases that can be good. I did get a bit pinged off when a lifer prisoner asked me if I would like to borrow a book I needed for study & could not get hold of because he got it supplied through the jail system. They don't have to pay much for uni degree's. I was paying full price for my degree. He got my name & address of the mailing list that the uni sent out, so he knew I was doing the same degree as him. (I did put a stop to my details being sent out in the uni classes). I also got a bit annoyed when I was transporting low security prisoners to a prison farm, 8 of them I was alone which a few years ago was not uncommon here. I broke down on the road & luckily a police motorcyclist cop stopped to help. We were 2 & a half hours on the side of the road. When he radioed in the press got hold of it & TV crews & sat on the road waiting to get photo's etc, which resulted on it being on every news channel that evening. Report in the paper next day...It is totally unacceptable for prisoners to be in this position for all that time without basic human rights eg: no water to drink, no toilet. Well guess what, I was in the same position & I was the innocent party. This is our system hey? But these low security prisoners were still murderes & rapists but had done a fair whack of their sentence. Is it any wonder people get to the stage where they wan capital punishment brought back. I agree intervention in a lot of cases would help but it has to be the right kind of intervention & the government has to be more accountable for their actions regarding aprents rights & childrens rights etc:. Personally I think I favour natural life sentences to capital punishment & spending more money on intervention & correction.
Boy I feel a bit better now I have that off my chest.

Originally posted by mojoworking
If only life were that simple.

What if, by thinking you were doing good, you were actually making things worse. Then your do-gooding wouldn't be doing any good at all. In fact it would be doing bad!

To sum up: in the immortal words of Frank Zappa - The geek shall inherit nothing!

I wonder what your thoughts on Mary Bell are???

Originally posted by mojoworking
If only life were that simple.

What if, by thinking you were doing good, you were actually making things worse. Then your do-gooding wouldn't be doing any good at all. In fact it would be doing bad!

To sum up: in the immortal words of Frank Zappa - The geek shall inherit nothing!


...well then it wouldn't be do-gooding by definition. I would've thought that was obvious.

Presumably Jesus doing good was pretty bad for the Levite theocracy at the time. He was clearly a subersive political agitator with an anarchist agenda. He got what was coming to him (literally :) )

I just think that 'do-gooder' is a meaningless pejorative based on some loosely constructed social stereotype.

[the geek? not zappa - surely the meek? ]

Originally posted by Phanerothyme

[the geek? not zappa - surely the meek? ]

Did you seriously think I'd get something like that wrong? :)

No, it's "geek". The song is titled "The Meek Shall Inherit Nothing" (from the album You Are What You Is - 1981). The line I quoted refers to Hare Krishna devotees. Here are a couple of verses:

Some take the bible
For what it's worth
When it says that the meek
Shall inherit the Earth
Well, I heard that some sheik
Has bought New Jersey last week
'N you suckers ain't gettin' nothin'

Is Hare Rama really wrong
If you wander around
With a napkin on
With a bell on a stick
An' your hair is all gone . . .
The geek shall inherit nothin'

Having as I said previously worked in Jails for the last 17 years.Its OK to talk about rehab etc: but you know you can't rehabilitate someone who has never been habilitated. Many of the people in jail have a totally different value system to the general public. I often compare trying to turn a prisoners life around by comparing it this way. Take an extremely honest caring person & try & turn them into a violent criminal. What so many people do not understand about many (Not all) but many prisoners is that they don't give a rats what effect their crime had on anyone, yes they are sorry, sorry that they got caught. Its always the judge the police or prison officers who put them in jail, its never their behaviour. How do you deal with someone who rapes & murders a 5 year old child serves a ten year sentence & 2 years after being released rapes & murders a two year old child. Do we EVER risk that happening again. I think its time people started taking responsibility for their actions & if it means keeping people like that behind bars for life then so be it. I may sound hard but one the other hand I must have 20 or 30 letters from prisoners actually saying thank you for helping them or teaching them something during their time. One thing I have taught a few prisoners is that they ALWAYS have a choice in any situation. It is a different world in a jail where different laws apply.There are certainly people who jail is not the answer for but the bottom line is no government is going to spend the money on REAL rehab or REAL intervention & intervention would be as big a topic as capital punishment believe me. There is no easy solution, but can anyone tell me what we should do then with people who rape murder etc: etc: its easy to keep telling people we are doing the wrong thing keeping people in prison but what whould you do then as an alternative????

I think you've summed it up perfectly there Janet. Well said.

Originally posted by mojoworking
Did you seriously think I'd get something like that wrong? :)

No, it's "geek". The song is titled "The Meek Shall Inherit Nothing" (from the album You Are What You Is - 1981).

aha - thing fish version:
"Some take THE BIBLE
For what it's worth
When it says that THE MEEK
Shall inherit THE EARTH
Well, I heard that some Sheik
Has bought New Jersey last week,
'N you suckers ain't gettin' DOODLY!

Is all de MAMMYS really wrong,
If we's wandrin' aroun'
Wit' de nakkin on?
Big ol' lips like a duck,
While we's singin' dis song,
(EVIL PRINCE, people, he cain't do NOTHIN'!)"

I'd forgotten about the Thingfish "embellished" version. But it was 3 years after the YAWYI original and a re-recording after all.