I've been pondering a career change for some time now and have been toying with the idea of training to be a secondary school teacher in Maths or IT or science.

Are there any teachers out there, or anyone else with an opinion, who could offer some advice as to whether a move in to teaching would be a good thing, or something to be avoided at all costs.

I currently have a highly paid job in IT, and am aware this would be a major change financially, but have become totally disillusioned and fed up with the IT industry and want to do something more worthwhile and rewarding instead.

Is teaching all hard work, long hours, paperwork, low pay and abusive teenagers? Or is it the rewarding, challenging profession I am hoping it is?

Any views?

I know quite a few teachers - the primary teachers seem to be on a career path whilst the secondary school teachers all seem to be wanting to get out of it coz they have had enough of the kids, but most of them do find it rewarding.
I think you can do fast track - because of your IT work you would be able to get into teaching quicker than asomeone who had just got their degree ( i think thats how it works).
Apparently there is a drought of maths teachers at the moment so financial incentives are being offered for people to teach it over other subjects.

Good Luck, it sounds like something you want to do so hope it all works out:)

Sheffield Hallam University do quite a lot of PGCE / teaching courses - why not call the department and see if there's anyone who'd be willing to have an 'informal chat'?

They won't be able to tell you whether to do it or not, but they'd be able to explain the paths by which you can get in.

Joe

the fast track treaching scheme - it is designed to attract talented people from other professions into teaching because of the skills that they can ofer learned from the workplace that graduates cannot neccesarily.

The rewards and advancement through the payscale aree correspondingly higher, and it also pays bursaries during the training in addition to the standard training salary. Maths is a shortage subject, so I think you get an additional 5 grand at the end of the first year.

see http://www.fasttrackteaching.gov.uk/

on the news last week they said that there are now to many teachers, they had someone on who was looking for a job for 2 years

Think long and hard and bear in mind that 20% of newly qualified teachers leave the profession before they have completed 4 years service.

Over 30% of a teachers working week is spent on non-teaching activities with a workload that in many cases exceeds that of other graduate jobs.

Increasing violence in the classroom situation means that panic buttons are installed in many schools and this is not just secondary school level either.

After saying all that if you feel that you can make a difference then give it a go.

I blame the Government, they've got the schools so hung up about "performance targets" and all that business half of the teachers don't know whether they're coming or going.

It's all that muppet Blunkett's fault when he was Education Secretary, he brought all this new stuff in to make things harder... And now kids are passing more GCSEs etc, the Government are bitching about the exams being "too easy" WTF?! Make your minds up for god sake!

Many thanks for all your comments - just what I wanted. I know there seem to be many downsides to teaching, I just want to believe it's far more rewarding than doing a job I don't really enjoy simply because it pays well. Money isn't everything - I want to put something back in to society.

I think I'll see if I can go see someone at Hallam uni for an informal chat - good idea Joe.

Originally posted by Norbo
Many thanks for all your comments - just what I wanted. I know there seem to be many downsides to teaching, I just want to believe it's far more rewarding than doing a job I don't really enjoy simply because it pays well. Money isn't everything - I want to put something back in to society.

I think I'll see if I can go see someone at Hallam uni for an informal chat - good idea Joe.

Let us know how you get on, it might make an interesting diary for anyone else wanting to follow your lead.

Good luck.

Sheffield Uni do a pgce too

Norbo, don't do it! My dad retired from the profession today as luck would have it, aged 57. Thesedays it is a complete nightmare. When he started teaching in the 60's, you were allowed to get on with it. If you knew your stuff and could communicate it to the kids, that's all that mattered. Thesedays subject knowledge, unbelievably, is almost secondary. It is all about horrible government phrases like 'performance targets', 'SOW (no it's not an animal, it's a 'scheme of work'), you have to justify everything you do. You are basically a robot who is controlled and told how to teach to a model. My Dad is one of the only people who ever got 100% on his final listening exam at the Royal academy of music, and is as knowledgeable as you will find. But thesedays they want your soul! The paperwork is beyond a joke. Many teachers work well over 60 hours a week depending on what roles they have within the school (again, you've got all your Key Stage managers, Performance management coordinators......). You talk about being disillusioned with the industry you are in, well speak to a few secondary school teachers (especially older ones who can remember the days when you were allowed to actually get on with your job with no intereference and were simply judged on your performance, not how good a pen-pusher you are or how much of a puppet you are prepared to be) and they will, with very few exceptions, tell you that they want out. Ofetn crazy hours, more time spent filling in forms justifying what you are doing than actually doing something with kids, setting yourself performance targets, filling in questionaires about your shoe size and inside leg (ok I made up the last bit, but give it a couple of years!!). The other joke is that teachers are often monitored and have their lessons watched by more senior members of the staff who do not know anything about the subject which is being taught. All the staff at my dad's school are observed by members of the senior management. The one allocated to my dad could write what they know about music on the back of a postage stamp, yet experienced teachers who have been in the job 30 years have to suffer the patronising and totally backward practice of being observed by someone who knows nothing about the subject. To compound the insult, the observer has to report on the quality of the lesson, despite the fact that they knot absolutely nothing about music! Basically the whole profession is completely backwards thesedays. INexperienced young people in high places, good teachers who are constantly interefered with and are not allowed to get on with it, paperwork coming out of your ears...

The fastrack thing by and large is a complete sham. My dad had to tutor someone on that scheme, and it was a complete joke. Some of these people should never in a million years be let near a classroom. She couldn't read music, couldn't play a single instrument, (I kid you not), and bizarrely refused to teach a class a few rhythms as part of her training. When she was finally convinced to do so, she got all the rhythms wrong and the kids rather embarassingly had to point out to her that she was getting it wrong. I also know of several other schools who have had people in this scheme that have had to politely turn them away because they were just such poor candidates and had absolutely none of the qualities necessary to teach in their chosen subject.

If you have a high-powered job in IT, stay there! I would rather be disillusioned on 40k p/a than be disillusioned on 16kp/a!! In terms of it being rewarding, it sure has it's moments- the good will of kids and knowing that you have made a difference in the life of a child or enhanced their prospects is a great feeling. Unfortunately, teachers are having the stuffing knocked out of them by endless deadlines, schemes, fads, government objectives and proposals, performance targets, filling in forms for the sake of filling in forms.......... when in truth, if you know what you're doing, and you can teach a class full of children effectively, that's all that matters. I guess that's what this meddling government does for you- 'If it ain't broke, fix it anyway!!'. Never before have so many teachers wanted out, that in itself says something

To use your own words- 'avoid at all costs', certainly as far as secondary is concerned. So many people want out it's not true. Good luck.

Originally posted by Rich
I blame the Government, they've got the schools so hung up about "performance targets" and all that business half of the teachers don't know whether they're coming or going.



Exactly. Your department can have a 100% GCSE pass rate and they're still asking you to fill in 374 page document about why it isn't 105%.

[Overcome adversity.
Deliver a Challenge.
Strong in Determination
Courage in your beliefs
Vocation in depth.

Are only a few talents that you will need to become some childs teacher, mentor or oracle.
NO one is saying it's easy.
If it was easy everybody would do it.
Todays real teachers, the best teachers, the good teachers need a higher vocational drive than ever before.
Are we to sacrifice our children's education based on perceived inadequacies from current staff and rabid exploitive tabloid journalism. I think not.
If you feel that this is the right path for you, then, I salute you for your beliefs,aspirations and dedication.
As for luck,
Only you know wether you'll need it or not.

I'm sorry but this job just isn't that bad!

I'm an English teacher at a secondary school and although i like to have a bit of a moan i think i'm in a pretty good job by all accounts.

Lets look at the evidence. I started on a higher wage than most my other graduate friends and it is a wage that goes up steadily each year. I got a grant of £6000 to train, my student loans are being paid off and i get £4000 golden hello at the start of my second year

My working day starts offically at 8.55 and ends at 3.10. so i feel that the couple of hours i do each night actually takes me to the full day most people work. Yeah i do have busier times where i work weekends but how many professionals don't have that?

I get 14 weeks holiday this year! I think that speaks for itself!

But most of all each day is different, each hour is different. Every class is different and each day the kids manage to surprise you. You are your own boss to a certain extent and you have the oppertunity to be as creative as you want to be. I believe you get back from this job what you put in and you control both the what the pupils gain from their experience and what you gain.

Yeah there are difficult kids but there are difficult people in every job and you pick the type of school you are comfortable working in.

Ultimatley if you don't enjoy the job you can get out of it, or explore other aspects of education. Teaching is not the trap some people make it out to be. Give it a go, if you enjoy it then great. If anyone tries to tell you that you should avoid it because they hate their job, simply ask them 'why are you doing it then?' and then make your own mind up.

Good luck.
:thumbsup:

Well, thanks a million Jonesy, Caz, Bulldog, et al. I really do appreciate the time you have taken to give me your thoughts. I guess the points you raise Jonesy are very real - after all there must be good reasons why they are offering golden hellos and things to new teachers. It's good to hear that Caz has positive things to say though.

Such a difficult decision to make - is it wise to give up a perfectly well paid job to train for a career change, whilst supporting a family and paying a mortgage at the same time!! Scary.

Any more teachers out there with any comments about the job?

Caz, part of the thing is that more and more teachers don't feel that they are getting out what the put in, because they put in everything they have, get great results, but still get pestered by all manner of silly government targets and proposals etc. which can make them feel like what they are doing is never enough. Incidentally are you an NQT and did you go via Fasttrack? This may explain something in terms of your attitude towards the profession and how it differs to people who entered it 20, 30 or 40 years ago, when a teacher's natural instincts were not stifled to such a great extent by the National curriculum and by the government. I know quite a few NQTs and they are all very much 'models' of what the government wants teachers to be. They all seem to have had their natural flair knocked out of them and are teaching 'by the book' which is not always the most effective way to get through to children. Also, I would be interested to know how you feel about it in 40 years time, although I'm not sure that we will all still be on this board then!

As for teachers who dislike their jobs and 'what are they doing?', well the point is that, depending on how long they have been in the job, for many it is not the same profession that they entered years ago. Yeah things change, but unfortunately the people at the top decide to meddle with things which weren't actually a problem in the first place. I know several teachers who have been out of uni less than 5 years and are already looking for out because if things continue as they are, and there is more and more intereference from the top, it's going to be ridiculous. And these teachers are at very highly ranked schools too with good kids.

Norbo you are quite right, these incentives are because more and more would-be teachers are shunning it as a career option. The sheer numbers looking for it scare people off as much as anything.

Holiday-wise, you will find a lot of that disappears when you become a head of department or something similar. The summer is obviously pretty much yours, but half terms, easter breaks, christmas holidays, for many teachers they aren't holidays at all. There is coursework to mark by the truckload (and obviously this has to be done painstakingly), Schemes of work to draw up for next term, exams to mark or exams to write, trips abroad to organise if you so wish. 6 weeks holiday still isn't bad at all, my poiny though is that often people look at teaching and think 'great, short days and 14 weeks off'. Only for a lucky (or lazy!) few does it work out anywhere near that. Many are talking 60 to 70 hour weeks and have their holidays during the year taken up by school-related matters, depending on what position/responsibilites they hold within the school.



It isn't the kids who are the problem, at the end of the day if someone can't handle a roomful of kids then obviously you are in the wrong place. Also Caz it's good that you enjoy your job but do remember that the stats show that for every one who is happy there is another one, possibly for many good reasons, who isn't. Also I bet your financial incentives make you a little more upbeat about things. I'm glad you like your job though and good luck! I remember GCSE English fondly, 'To Kill a Mockingbird' we did, those were the days........

Hi I read with interest. Although teaching is a good job and job satisfaction that goes with it I have had enough of teachers saying that they are hard done by.

I worked in private industry which was very very stressful and paid about the same. worked 8.30 till 6/7 some nights. never left before 5.30. if i got my full 1 hours lunch time i was lucky. sometime came in over the weekend (no overtime, just like the extra weekly hours). 22 days holiday a year. I put up with it, I am not here to feel sorry for myself, far from it, but I cant stand teachers moaning about conditions. Yes the job I presume is stressful, like most jobs, but at least you can have a break from the little darlings every 8 weeks or so and get a nice summer break when you can totally recover. Even if you work doing paper work, you can go at it in your own space and not be under the watchful eye of your boss or having to look for the kids.

All jobs have their up and down sides and no doubt that teaching has change allot over the years of which I don't agree with and can only sympathise from my little outside knowledge, but teachers don't have it that bad. Try working in the NHS!

Rant over with! :)

ZEDEX, this is a thread about teaching raised by someone considering a career change. If you are fed up with hearing about teachers and their problems why on earth enter a thread about teaching? :loopy:

If you want to discourage people from entering your profession start your own thread.

Originally posted by max
ZEDEX, this is a thread about teaching raised by someone considering a career change. If you are fed up with hearing about teachers and their problems why on earth enter a thread about teaching? :loopy:

If you want to discourage people from entering your profession start your own thread.

I am not discouraging someone from entering teaching!, where do you get that from??? . I infact have looked into it myself!. I am trying to say teaching is most probably a worthwhile profession, but I am just sick and tired of some teachers moaning about conditions that may infact put prospective people (like myself and the person who started this thread!) off teaching. Please get your facts right before making such statements Max.

PS Cant find how to do the loopy thing so I cant put one against you!

Originally posted by ZEDEX48K
Hi I read with interest. Although teaching is a good job and job satisfaction that goes with it I have had enough of teachers saying that they are hard done by.

I actually want to hear the bad parts and how hard done by they are - I suppose that was the reason I posted in the first place really. It's pretty obvious to me what a fantastic, rewarding job it should be and I'm pretty sure I could give it a good go, but I really want to hear the downside to the job and all the horror stories, warts and all, so I can guage whether this really is something I should consider, or whether I would be better off sticking with my current career.

Originally posted by ZEDEX48K


. Even if you work doing paper work, you can go at it in your own space and not be under the watchful eye of your boss or having to look for the kids.

All jobs have their up and down sides and no doubt that teaching has change allot over the years of which I don't agree with and can only sympathise from my little outside knowledge, but teachers don't have it that bad. Try working in the NHS!

Rant over with! :)

Hmm, no offence, but I am guessing that you work for the NHS and therefore in your world and from your point of view it is much more stressful? In the same way, someone else who works for the NHS could easily come on here and say 'I'm sick of people moaning about working for the NHS'. This guy wants opinions from teachers or people who have close links with them. 'Outside knowledge' is not sufficient to make a judgement or any kind of informed comment whatsoever.

Originally posted by Norbo
I actually want to hear the bad parts and how hard done by they are - I suppose that was the reason I posted in the first place really. It's pretty obvious to me what a fantastic, rewarding job it should be and I'm pretty sure I could give it a good go, but I really want to hear the downside to the job and all the horror stories, warts and all, so I can gauge whether this really is something I should consider, or whether I would be better off sticking with my current career.

I agree with you Norbo that you want to get a balanced view (so that put max stupid comment further irrelevant!). My point is that some (and I mean some!) teachers make out that they are hard done by, like no one else in other professions are!. What is the biggest moan apart from pay in jobs?, I hazard a guess at stress. Whats good for stress?, a break from the job, time to relax. Well thats where teaching comes into its own with long summer holidays and easter and Christmas and half terms. Before teachers reply back, I am sure that not all of these holidays are actually holidays, but like I said its most likely paper work which you can do away from the little darlings! in the peace and quite of your staff room or home, away from them and the boss. Most other stressful jobs don't have this situation. Go for it Norbo, I was in a similar job as yours before ill health got me out (thank god). I am indeed looking into teaching myself, hence my interest in this very thread (please note that last statement max!).

Still not found out how to do the loopy image! :)

Originally posted by Jonesy
Hmm, no offence, but I am guessing that you work for the NHS and therefore in your world and from your point of view it is much more stressful? In the same way, someone else who works for the NHS could easily come on here and say 'I'm sick of people moaning about working for the NHS'. This guy wants opinions from teachers or people who have close links with them. 'Outside knowledge' is not sufficient to make a judgement or any kind of informed comment whatsoever.

Dont work for NHS but know someone close who does. That remark was to put things into perspective only.

As a technician in a secondary school and with friends that are teachers at other schools (and some that have gone abroad to escape teaching in UK), i have to say i would not want to do it.

I think it depends on the type of person you are, and what you expect. If the kids are interested and behave then it can be really rewarding. Though i would say in a lot of cases expect to be abused in some way or another, you only need one kid in a class to be like this and it happens regulary. If you can cope then good luck go for it.

I think what you say about the kids being interested is really important. The National Curriculum and the robotic way teachers are now trained, can stifle natural flair, enthusiasm, and communicative skills. The best teachers I know, are the ones who pretty much stuff all the garbage that you get fed from the top about how to teach and this and that. The people who draw up these guidelines more often than not have never darkened the doors of a school as anything other than a pupil! Many experienced teachers ignore what they are told and get on with doing what they do best, and use the methods of communicating and teaching that they have been doing for decades. If most people think back to their favourite teachers, they were probably the ones who taught with enthusiasm, humour, flair, and were able to teach things in novel and interesting ways which really made the kids want to learn, held their attention, and above all the kids learnt what they needed to know. It's like playing a sport, in that there are many different ways and styles which you can use, and all of them can be successful. The trouble nowadays is that the powers that be want all teachers to be the same and follow the same model. The teacher I remember the most was crazy, a chemistry teacher. He would jump around on tables pretending he was an atom, demonstrate chemical reactions by getting kids to run into each other and collide, tell random jokes......... mad as a hatter, but most important of all we never ever forget what he taught us because of the way he taught it and the way he built up a great rapport and mutual respect with the kids. At the end of our GCSEs in a class of 20, everyone got an A* or an A!

Originally posted by ZEDEX48K
I am not discouraging someone from entering teaching!, where do you get that from??? .

Sorry if you took offence. I wasn't implying that you were trying to discourage other people from going into teaching. What I was trying to say was that this thread is for the pros and cons of the teaching profession. If people want to have a moan about teachers there are plenty of other threads.

I'm interested in this as I too am looking for a career change from IT and am looking for anything that'll help me do it. Also, I'm still waiting for responses from Hallam to enquiries I have made. :mad:

Originally posted by max
Sorry if you took offence. I wasn't implying that you were trying to discourage other people from going into teaching. What I was trying to say was that this thread is for the pros and cons of the teaching profession. If people want to have a moan about teachers there are plenty of other threads.

I'm interested in this as I too am looking for a career change from IT and am looking for anything that'll help me do it. Also, I'm still waiting for responses from Hallam to enquiries I have made. :mad:

No problem Max, good you cleared it up. Now back to the pros and cons of teaching for the benefit of not just Norbo but by the looks of it myself and Max and a few others too!.

If I may make a point, it amazes me that so many people in IT want out. When I was at uni in the mid 90's that what a load of people wanted to get into (me included!). But then again sat behind a bloody screen all day looking at code or figures for the next 40 years is enough for anyone!.

Originally posted by max
Also, I'm still waiting for responses from Hallam to enquiries I have made. :mad:

Max, could this be because their term has finished so they are on holiday? I managed to speak to someone at Hallam, but when enquiring about having an informal chat with someone about teaching courses they said not possible as most of the teaching staff are on holiday now.

http://www.shef.ac.uk/education/courses/pgce.shtml

that's the link to the uni page on the pgce. I'm not sure about people being on holiday - there's usually someone about (at least there is in my department!)

Originally posted by Jonesy
Incidentally are you an NQT and did you go via Fasttrack? This may explain something in terms of your attitude towards the profession and how it differs to people who entered it 20, 30 or 40 years ago, when a teacher's natural instincts were not stifled to such a great extent by the National curriculum and by the government. I know quite a few NQTs and they are all very much 'models' of what the government wants teachers to be. They all seem to have had their natural flair knocked out of them and are teaching 'by the book' which is not always the most effective way to get through to children.

As for teachers who dislike their jobs and 'what are they doing?', well the point is that, depending on how long they have been in the job, for many it is not the same profession that they entered years ago. Yeah things change, but unfortunately the people at the top decide to meddle with things which weren't actually a problem in the first place.

Holiday-wise, you will find a lot of that disappears when you become a head of department or something similar. The summer is obviously pretty much yours, but half terms, easter breaks, christmas holidays, for many teachers they aren't holidays at all. There is coursework to mark by the truckload (and obviously this has to be done painstakingly), Schemes of work to draw up for next term, exams to mark or exams to write, trips abroad to organise if you so wish. 6 weeks holiday still isn't bad at all, my poiny though is that often people look at teaching and think 'great, short days and 14 weeks off'. Only for a lucky (or lazy!) few does it work out anywhere near that. Many are talking 60 to 70 hour weeks and have their holidays during the year taken up by school-related matters, depending on what position/responsibilites they hold within the school.



Ok, i may be an NQT but i'm not sure why you have a right to presume or infer anything about my attitude. I believe in creativity and flare in the classroom but standards are important too. Years back when teachers were left to their own devices we had children with awful levels of basic literacy and no way of ensuring that all pupils recieved the same basic standard of education. Thank God the days are gone where a teacher could play god with the education of a child. Yes it is a balancing act but one we are working on. And i'm not a puppet to government policy i just see the need for some structure as in any job. It is possible to use the structures to enhance your flair and ensure all learning needs are met.

No matter what you say i don't think teachers have the right to complain. We do a fantastic job. We get good holidays, (and those who believe a teacher is 'lazy' if they actually take that holiday are being totally unfair.) Some teachers like to wax lyrical about their tough lives, ITS NOT THAT BAD! Some people do just like to moan. The sad thing is those teachers seem to go out of their way to put of people like Norbo, they don't give pros and cons but deliver a lecture instead. If its that bad they should leave. Simple, or at least let others make up their own minds. Some people just don't like change.

Are you even a teacher Jayne or are you repeating what you have been told be your dad? I'm sorry if i seem aggressive but i hate the negativity that surrounds a profession i think is worthwhile and fulfilling.

Originally posted by caz2
No matter what you say i don't think teachers have the right to complain. We do a fantastic job. We get good holidays, (and those who believe a teacher is 'lazy' if they actually take that holiday are being totally unfair.) Some teachers like to wax lyrical about their tough lives, ITS NOT THAT BAD! Some people do just like to moan. The sad thing is those teachers seem to go out of their way to put of people like Norbo, they don't give pros and cons but deliver a lecture instead. If its that bad they should leave.



My point exactly!!! :) :)

I think you're mixing me up with someone else, caz2 - I haven't said anything apart from the link to the uni website.

Out of interest my dad is a teacher and has always wanted me not to go into teaching, but I think that's because it's not the job he was doing 20 years ago - if you were starting now that wouldn't be a problem.

I have 3 friends who are teachers, at different schools, and all are happy with their jobs - they have the occasional grumbles but who doesn't.

So Norbo, I reckon try and find someone at Hallam/Uni to talk to but it sounds like you want to go for it.

Originally posted by Jayne
I think you're mixing me up with someone else, caz2 - I haven't said anything apart from the link to the uni website.


I'm sooooooooo sorry! I completely mistyped the name. I ment to put jonesy!!:blush:

I was just in rant mode i think!

Sorry again!:thumbsup: