It's a lovely set of stories kebabgirl, but I'm firmly of the opinion that the tales of tunnels are nothing more than fanciful exaggerations and urban myths that have built up over time.

I've yet to come across anyone that has really seen or been in a 'tunnel' that isn't just a basement door, a bricked up cellar, or an old mine working. There's no real reason to build a tunnel, and the geology / available technology really does put it into the realms of fantasy.

Lovely tales, but I don't think there's anything in them.


Bravo Tony,

Can we put this story on the shelf.

The chance of any of these "Romantic Tunnels" ie Manor Castle to the Sheffield Castle, etc. ever exisiting are a bit far fetched.

I think we are all victims of local folklore and our relative's imaginations. Every family had a story teller. Mine was no exception. My Uncle Albert was one of the best; however, even he used to roll his eyes at the suggestion of tunnels to Manor Castle. If there was one, it would only go a few metres at the most.

In the 15th and 16th centuries, when the tunnnels are said to have been built, England just didn't have skills or the instruments to do it. Tunneling more than say 100 metres underground needs good accurate surveying and it just wasn't around until the late 18th or early 19th century.

If they started digging from Manor Lane to the castle in town in Elizabethan times, they were just as likely to end up in Attercliffe or Encliffe Park. Also, they had to get under the River Sheaf. Going under a river, any river, without flooding everything is not easy, even today.

Regards

In the 15th and 16th centuries, when the tunnnels are said to have been built, England just didn't have skills or the instruments to do it. Tunneling more than say 100 metres underground needs good accurate surveying and it just wasn't around until the late 18th or early 19th century.

Regards
tunnels were used to undermine castles in the 12th century and before,they had to go under moats etc and were often started hundreds of yards away from the castles out of sight of the castle troops,often this was the only way to beat the defences of a castle

tunnels were used to undermine castles in the 12th century and before,they had to go under moats etc and were often started hundreds of yards away from the castles out of sight of the castle troops,often this was the only way to beat the defences of a castle

Hi
I agree some tunnels were dug hundreds of yards to undermine castles; however, alignment in these circumstances wasn't too important. If you were a few feet or yards off the place you first intended to be, it didn't matter as long as you got under the wall.

What I'm talking about is tunnels, supposably dug in Elizabethan times or earlier, that went for 2 or more miles. Also situations like Manor Castle to Sheffield Castle that were hundreds of feet different in elevation. This is where you can't use guesswork or goodness knows where you might end up.

Remember the stories about the PoW's in World War 2 who dug tunnels to escape from the camps. The people who planned these things were often some of brightest around but without the necessary surveying equipment, they could make mistakes. The end of their tunnels might come up inside the wire rather than outside.

Regards

according to a friend who salvaged scrap metal from the hyde park demolition, there was a tunnel he saw which seemed to run from underneath the old hyde park flats, and looked as if it headed towards town.

:)

Shallow drift mine? Previously demolished building basement? Victorian sewer? Services trench? Combined Heat & Power. Air raid shelter? Possibly any of them, but a 'secret tunnel'? Nah. :)

Im currently writing an article for a local magazine and looking for as much "real" Information as possible regarding any and all types of tunnels under sheffield. Any Sites that I DONT have to pay for would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks peoples

Realistically discussing tunnels from the era of sheffield castle etc etc is not worthwhile since they will almost certainly be destroyed now.

Subterrean Sheffield more than likely consists of simply basements, mines, and the odd ww2 bunker. It is possible the universities have steam tunnels however. Nottingham (and dare i say it leeds) is far more interesting when it comes to underground tunnels.

Nuclear Bunker wise, the best you'll probably get is the ROC bunker at the back of abbeydale golf club.

It's a great thread that has been the subject of speculation for donkeys years, long may it go on as the last thing that I want to hear is that there were no tunnels. Logic implies that there would have been tunnels during the time when Catholic's were being percecuted but my guess is that they would have collapsed by now.

Also as has been mentioned in previous posts Victorian drains could have been mistaken for tunnels as could mine shafts. However the foundations of Sheffield Castle still exist so it should be pretty simple to find any signs of tunnels there.

Yeah i think this is a great thread. Nothing wrong with going down in victorian drains and mines if people know where they are ;)

are you the same DBS from 28dayslater then?

Yeah that is I. Unfortunately not in Sheffield anymore though. There's still loads of sites i want to do.

Have you done jessops yet? I'm only half way through...

im looking at doing it soon, ive seen your entrance and i dont think ill fit through it lol so i need someplace else to get in

PM me on 28 days, i've got a better one but you need to climb a little bit; it's how leary got in.

I went to Jersey in the 1980's and went to see the German military underground hospital, this was a tunnel system set up with wards and operating theatres , the lot really impressive

Shame my old mans not still with us, as a kid he used to play on the fields that is now Woodthorpe School, it was originally Woodthorpe Hall.He told me many tales of him and his friends playing in the the tunnel that led from the back of the hall and split into 2, 1 smaller tunnel going down to the Old Queens Head and the other coming out somewhere at Darnall behind the Greenthorpes Garage where the allotments are. Apparantly many of the miners who lived in the area used the Darnall tunnel to get to work at the "Nunnery Pit" site when the weather was bad.I lived on the Woodthorpe for a few years and we found a brick lined tunnel in our garden when we were building a patio area.I contacted the N.C.B who after visiting the site, confirmed that it wasn't constructed by the Coalboard .They were unsure what the purpose of the tunnel was .I wish I had explored it a bit more thoroughly now.There was a lady on our crescent who was something of a local historian and she had some knowledge of the Woodthorpe Hall.I'm not sure if she's still alive but I will make some enquires to see if I can shed any more light on the Hall and its tunnels

Shame my old mans not still with us, as a kid he used to play on the fields that is now Woodthorpe School, it was originally Woodthorpe Hall.He told me many tales of him and his friends playing in the the tunnel that led from the back of the hall and split into 2, 1 smaller tunnel going down to the Old Queens Head and the other coming out somewhere at Darnall behind the Greenthorpes Garage where the allotments are. Apparantly many of the miners who lived in the area used the Darnall tunnel to get to work at the "Nunnery Pit" site when the weather was bad.I lived on the Woodthorpe for a few years and we found a brick lined tunnel in our garden when we were building a patio area.I contacted the N.C.B who after visiting the site, confirmed that it wasn't constructed by the Coalboard .They were unsure what the purpose of the tunnel was .I wish I had explored it a bit more thoroughly now.There was a lady on our crescent who was something of a local historian and she had some knowledge of the Woodthorpe Hall.I'm not sure if she's still alive but I will make some enquires to see if I can shed any more light on the Hall and its tunnels
that's really interesting, it's only when you look back that you realise what a find that really was!

Why oh Why oh Why did Sheffielders not go down and take a proper survey of what was / is actually down there? After reading some of these posts you would think that there was enough interest to go to some of the places mentioned, dig about abit and see what you find! There must be loads of things we have forgotten about our great city that should be unearthed and explored, documented and only then brick up again after making sure we had every bit of history squeezed out of it.
I have only been able to read afew of the many posts on this thread so if anyone does know a book or anything that goes into detail on this subject please tell me because I would be facinated to do some exploring for myself!

I live in Sydney, Australia and was at one time a Sheffield resident and employed by Sheffield University.
The "tunnels under Sheffield" discussion is interesting in that I can make a comparison with the city of Sydney. We have very old tunnels originally dug to carry water. This project was called the "Tank Stream" and was operational until fairly recently. This project pre-dates the tunneling for the City Circle rail line.
Interestingly, we are still tunneling Sydney, this time for under city and under harbour roads.

Welcome to the forum Don. :thumbsup:

Thanks, Peterdo!

I still don't believe that these are anything more than a figment of vivid imaginations. Nobody has been able to prove that there is anything but Mine shafts, bell pits, adits, sewers and foundations underneath Sheffield, and Sheffield's topography hardly lends itself to the tunnels that are suggested.

Sorry to be so sceptical. :P I do like the romance of the idea :)
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The Carbrook Hall has a tunnel leading to the manor castle and this is well known, we , meaning my husband and myself once lived in Carbrook and a lot of people have seen the tunnel for themselves. [ but that was in the 70's before they had to seal it up] . The cross keys at Handsworth have also
a tunnel. The tunnels at the Tinsley hotel was uncovered and left for all to see in the 80's. You will find out that all these tunnels are now inaccessable as they have all collapsed or unsafe to go thro'.

I'm still not convinced to be honest. The feat of both surveying technique and mining engineering needed would be tremendous achievements today, never mind hundreds of years ago. Such a construction project would surely have been recorded on at least one occasion if so many exist, yet we only have contemporary reports of "sealed up and collapsed tunnels" :suspect:

.. and why would anyone need to travel underground from the Manor to Carbrook Hall? :huh:

A lot of these tales of supposed tunnels are based on
"Well, my uncle's next door neighbour's cousin's cat went down one of those tunnels in 1899, and so it HAD to be true"

as tony said, a) such a fantastical engineering feat would surely have been trumpeted to the world as the most amazing achievement...

and b) a lot of these tunnels, such as the one that's supposed to run from ringinglow to Beauchief Abbey have such steep gradients, hard bedrock, and would have to pass under/through rivers etc, making the idea preposterous that it could have been done with the technology available almost a thousand years ago.

PT

I love this thread, it keeps popping up again every 3 months or so. The whole issue would make a great study into urban myths and legends. I am sure that if you asked a random selection of Sheffield folk most people would have heard about the supposed tunnels that riddle the city, some would probably even know of someone that has seen them (no first hand evidence mind you).

Unfortunatly I think PT is spot on. Over the years various sightings of collapsed cellars, basements, drainage systems and minor mine workings have become mixed up with the city's famous historical landmarks and some good old fashioned nostalgia and imagination.

I would loved to be proven wrong though!

I'm fascinated by tunnels. I'm from in a small town in Leicestershire which apparently has a network of tunnels below it. Not sure how true it is.
Where in Leicestershire? I just found this thread and its interesting.

A lot of these tales of supposed tunnels are based on
"Well, my uncle's next door neighbour's cousin's cat went down one of those tunnels in 1899, and so it HAD to be true"

as tony said, a) such a fantastical engineering feat would surely have been trumpeted to the world as the most amazing achievement...

and b) a lot of these tunnels, such as the one that's supposed to run from ringinglow to Beauchief Abbey have such steep gradients, hard bedrock, and would have to pass under/through rivers etc, making the idea preposterous that it could have been done with the technology available almost a thousand years ago.

PT

Well done PT and Tony. You put it in all in a nut shell.

It didn't happen folks. We have all been had by neighbours, relatives, friends, etc. with overactive imaginations.

Nobody has come forward with a photograph of any these tunnels or maps, charts, eye witness accounts (sworn before a justice of the peace) - Nothing. And nobody will.

It is, regretably, all romantic speculation. Nobody had the skill to drive (dig) a tunnel in those days more than a few dozen metres and still maintain accuracy, certainly before 1830. Even if half the stories about tunnels under Carbrook Hall were true, its a wonder it hasn't collapsed in to them.

I retired at the end of 2003 as a Professional Engineer,after 52 years in heavy engineering. My last job was on a hydro electric power plant in West Asia. This was all underground with lots of tunnels: almost 7 km of them if you could stack them end to end. Even with all the latest laser surveying equipment we had, it was still a challenge for our guys and our contractor to maintain accuracy on each tunnel and arrive at the place we intended.

Regards

Of course there were tunnels! Every city and town across the country with castles or ruins or even any historical significance will have link out of the town incase of attack or invasion.

They weren't exactly feats of engineering to be trumpeted, because they were only a tunnel and they have been built for centuries.

Of course there were tunnels! Every city and town across the country with castles or ruins or even any historical significance will have link out of the town incase of attack or invasion.

They weren't exactly feats of engineering to be trumpeted, because they were only a tunnel and they have been built for centuries.


thats right, there are a number of famous sites for these tunnels, namely edinburgh in which large amounts of people lived in these tunnels,with some of the people never seeing the light of day. this is many..years ago

Of course there were tunnels! Every city and town across the country with castles or ruins or even any historical significance will have link out of the town incase of attack or invasion.

They weren't exactly feats of engineering to be trumpeted, because they were only a tunnel and they have been built for centuries.

So tell us why Sheffield Castle was under siege during the Civil War then? ;)

Of course there were tunnels! Every city and town across the country with castles or ruins or even any historical significance will have link out of the town incase of attack or invasion.

They weren't exactly feats of engineering to be trumpeted, because they were only a tunnel and they have been built for centuries.

I agree there may have been escape tunnels from some castles but they only went for a few dozen metres because they could not control the direction they were going. They couldn't go for kilometres, from A to B as some people sugested. It was impossible. Directional control for tunnelling (getting you precisely from A to B) only became possible when the first precision surveying instruments appeared in the late 18th - early 19th century.

What this thread has been talking about is tunnels under Sheffield. We are not talking about other cities and towns, etc. We all grew up with fantastic tales about all these tunnels that were supposed to go for kilometres in every concievable direction. Sheffield Castle may have had a short escape tunnel but as Tony pointed out, it certainly wasn't functioning by the time of the siege in 1644 (?).

As to tunnelling not been a feat of engineering, it depends what you are tunneling through. Digging in soft soils, such as we find in the bottom of the Don Valley, is one thing. Driving a tunnel through rock with the primative tools they had then, accomodating radical changes in elevation, passing under rivers - which is claimed for at least one tunnel supposedly under the city - is something altogether different.

Regards

So tell us why Sheffield Castle was under siege during the Civil War then? ;)

Sorry, this has taken a bit too much of a historical turn for me now, but i'd hazard a guess that people wanted to occupy it.

How is this relevant to whether there were any tunnels leading from it or not?

Well obviously is there were any escape tunnels, the Royalists would have been using them to escape. :)

Tunnels were occasionally constructed towards castles from outside the walls, but their intention was to quickly undermine foundations and cause the collapse of walls, not to pop out at the other end. Even then, most failed to reach far enough because they didn't know where they were tunneling.

I still love the romance of the idea of tunnels, but I have to draw the conclusion (along with a few others) that they don't exist, never have, and that any reports are merely blocked up entries, foundations, bell pits, adits, shafts, drifts, sewers, furnaces, etc. It doesn't stand up to a moment of scrutiny.

Well obviously is there were any escape tunnels, the Royalists would have been using them to escape. :)


Maybe the royalists (the important ones) did escape, but kept the gate locked and the cannon fodder behind to defend the castle, hence the siege still taking place.

It is almost inconceivable to think that a castle didn’t have an escape route (or one that wasn’t well documented anyway, kind of loses it secrecy otherwise) be it tunnel or otherwise. Harlech’s escape route comes out half way down a stone cliff! Now that is a tunnel, through rock!

I think you're wrong...so we'll have to agree to disagree!

A lot of these tales of supposed tunnels are based on
"Well, my uncle's next door neighbour's cousin's cat went down one of those tunnels in 1899, and so it HAD to be true"

as tony said, a) such a fantastical engineering feat would surely have been trumpeted to the world as the most amazing achievement...

and b) a lot of these tunnels, such as the one that's supposed to run from ringinglow to Beauchief Abbey have such steep gradients, hard bedrock, and would have to pass under/through rivers etc, making the idea preposterous that it could have been done with the technology available almost a thousand years ago.

PTummmmm,yet they could transport huge blocks of stone weighing many tons from wales, the south american tribes managed to measure the distance of the moon a thousand years before the thousand years you mention, other tribes built pyramids that can not be built today, others put massive stones so close together a playing card could not be placed between the joint,and then of course theres the romans who were doing fantastic engineering feats two thousand years ago, i think pt you may have to give appreciation where it is due,to the inginiuity of man

Nobody has come forward with a photograph of any these tunnels or maps, charts, eye witness accounts (sworn before a justice of the peace) - Nothing. And nobody will.



Hartshead tunnel:

http://www.picturesheffield.com/jpgh/s09546.jpg

http://www.picturesheffield.com/jpgh/s09545.jpg

Part of the Castle foundations I believe.

All the caption from picturesheffield says is 'hartshead tunnel' no other info. Might have a word with the guy from the local studies see if he knows anything further about these.

Hartshead is where the Dove & Rainbow is, if they were foundations it would've been an outbuilding for the castle I would have thought.

Harlech’s escape route comes out half way down a stone cliff! Now that is a tunnel, through rock!

I think you're wrong...so we'll have to agree to disagree!

That tunnel at Harlech was in fact an entrance to the castle from the sea. When Harlech was built the seal level was higher than now and the sea access was intended to afford a provisioning and re-inforcemant route if the castle was besieged.

and then of course theres the romans who were doing fantastic engineering feats two thousand years ago, i think pt you may have to give appreciation where it is due,to the inginiuity of man

And the Greeks before them..

http://pr.caltech.edu/periodicals/eands/articles/LXVII1/samos.html

That makes tremendous suppositions for which there is no evidence.

However, we do have evidence for the standard of surveying and tunnelling knowledge only 200 years ago. I give you the monumental cock up that was the Standedge Tunnel just up the road which very nearly ended up as 2 tunnels.

http://www.penninewaterways.co.uk/huddersfield/standedge3.htm

Hartshead is where the Dove & Rainbow is, if they were foundations it would've been an outbuilding for the castle I would have thought.

Doubt if it was anything to do with the castle, - when the castle was built Hartshead would have been on the western fringe of what then was Sheffield, and the outer courtyard of the castle extended along the south side of what is now the Haymarket.

http://www.sheffieldmarkets.co.uk/images/street-plan.jpg

Worth checking in Local Studies as there are likely newspaper cuttings about that tunnel.

That makes tremendous suppositions for which there is no evidence.
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Dismissive as ever :rolleyes:

That tunnel on Samos doesn't exist then and is just a figment of academic imagination ? :hihi:

No, not dismissive, just that I can't find any real records for how it was done, just an assumption that it was down from 2 ends via some ropey trig and land surveying techniques that would create huge errors. It would be quite possible to do it from one end in a straight line on a constant slope with little knowledge, but not from each end. It's a pretty simple job to be honest.

I've got one or two surveying qualifications so I know how hard it would be today from both ends with laser levels, never mind a few tripod or hand held squares. ;)

All the caption from picturesheffield says is 'hartshead tunnel' no other info. Might have a word with the guy from the local studies see if he knows anything further about these.

Hartshead is where the Dove & Rainbow is, if they were foundations it would've been an outbuilding for the castle I would have thought.


Hi,

If it's in Hartshead, its a tad way from the Castle; however, its the most interesting discovery yet.

Have we any idea who these people are and when the photo was taken? Looking at their clothes, etc. it looks like it could be the thirties or forties. Most men, particulary workmen, had stopped dressing like that by the fifties.

Remembering that Hartshead was one of the most heavily damaged areas in the blitz, could this "tunnel" have been exposed by a bomb or was it exposed during the reconstruction of the area ?

If so, its possible that the men are from the City Enginners dept., in which case, there may be an old report of their findings on file somewhere.

If they are archaeologist, then there most certainly would have been a "Dig Report" done by somebody.

Regards

If anyone really wants to find out for themselves you can call ARCUS, the Universities archaeology department who do 99% of the investigation work in Sheffield.

I suspect I know the answer that you will get back, but never say never ;)

Does anyone remember the massive hole that opened up on the Park Square Roundabout island about 10-15 years ago? Apparantly this happened because an old mine shaft under the roundabout hadn't been filled in correctly.

Still amazes me that there's all these funky things under the ground that we never hear of. I'd kinda convinced myself that the stories of the Castle remains under the Fish Market were something I'd dreamt up until doing an internet search on it a few months back.
When I was kid we used to down to see the remains of the castle, they could be cearly seen among the excavation, walls even an arch at one stage.

my father told me a true story his father told him of a tunnel a tunnel of such lenth that men marveled at it s wonder he told me it took more than 1 million orange/red industrial bricks to build now were talking 100 plus yrs ago so you can imagine how many bricks that would be in todays terms anyway i digress my father mentioned the sage of hather as it s origins i moved to new zealand when i was a youngster and only returned recently i have searched everywhere for said place i am exasperated by my unfruitful searching and am begining to disbelief my own father who is sadly now departed i would be gratefuln if anybody good help me solve my lifelong story thank you
Probably been said but it would seem likely that the Sage of Hather, is Hathersage, non!

That sounds about right, so that would probably make it the the Totley Tunnel. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totley_Tunnel) You can marvel at its wonder 3 times an hour on the train to Manchester ;)

Never heard of the Sage of Hather though. :huh:

Does anyone remember the massive hole that opened up on the Park Square Roundabout island about 10-15 years ago? Apparantly this happened because an old mine shaft under the roundabout hadn't been filled in correctly.


Hi,

This is a bit off-topic, but there used to be strange structure on Sheaf Street, opposite the bottom of Commerical Street (generally where Park Square is now).

It stood in a little yard. On one side were the original buildings for Sheaf Motors and on the other, a funny little road called Granville Hill that went up from Sheaf Street to Granville Streets.

The structure was a sort of tower, made from heavy timbers. On top was what looked like a small water tank, although it might of have been a cover for some machinery. At the back of yard were what looked like a couple of small cottages. They always seemed to have the doors open and the lights on. Once in a while. you might see a person moving around in the yard as if they were taking care of the equipment.

I once asked my dad what this was and he thought that it was an old mine shaft which had been closed-off and was now used for pumping water from the Nunnery Pit. I think the whole thing disappeared very quickly, about the same time that the Nunnery closed.

Does anyone else remember it?

Regards

No, not dismissive, just that I can't find any real records for how it was done, just an assumption that it was down from 2 ends via some ropey trig and land surveying techniques that would create huge errors.

Well I wasn't trying to make a case for the claim that the Samos tunnel was dug from both ends, - just using the link to show depoix that much vaunted Roman technology was often,- even usually, based on that of conquered peoples. The Romans were kleptomaniacs and what 'art' they couldn't carry off home as booty they copied, or enslaved the originator to reproduce for them.

Well done PT and Tony. You put it in all in a nut shell.

It didn't happen folks. We have all been had by neighbours, relatives, friends, etc. with overactive imaginations.

Nobody has come forward with a photograph of any these tunnels or maps, charts, eye witness accounts (sworn before a justice of the peace) - Nothing. And nobody will.

It is, regretably, all romantic speculation. Nobody had the skill to drive (dig) a tunnel in those days more than a few dozen metres and still maintain accuracy, certainly before 1830. Even if half the stories about tunnels under Carbrook Hall were true, its a wonder it hasn't collapsed in to them.

I retired at the end of 2003 as a Professional Engineer,after 52 years in heavy engineering. My last job was on a hydro electric power plant in West Asia. This was all underground with lots of tunnels: almost 7 km of them if you could stack them end to end. Even with all the latest laser surveying equipment we had, it was still a challenge for our guys and our contractor to maintain accuracy on each tunnel and arrive at the place we intended.

Regards

I seem to remember a program by Adam Hart Davis showing how to do this in a very simple way.
I also saw something on the internet about tunnels running along Shalesmoor from pub to pub, they have now started work at the end of the road so I should go down and have alook.

Very true Greybeard. The Romans were great engineers and plagiarists but also quite remarkable innovators when it came to making things actually work for real.. a little like Victorian Britain. :)

The tunnel at Samos is intriguing but I know that I personally could set it out and level it from one end with pretty basic equipment if all it has to do is conduct water downhill and exit roughly where expected... but without real expert surveyors with modern equipment I couldn't possibly do it from both ends and have any secure hope of meeting in the middle.

I would feel the same about taking on a challenge to build a tunnel from the Castle / Queens Head / Hartshead to the Manor / Cross Keys / Carbook Hall. I wouldn't have a snowballs chance even using modern laser levels and we could pop up anywhere... if we weren't killed in the process first. :D

Hi,

Some years ago, there was joke going around the engineering industry about two navvies who put in a ridiculous low price for digging the Channel Tunnel.

When asked how they were going to do it, they replied that one would start digging in England, the other would start in France and they would meet in the middle.

When asked what would happen if their lack of surveying skills and direction control mean that they didn't meet at all, they replied: You get two tunnels for the price of one".

Regards

The tunnel at Samos is intriguing but I know that I personally could set it out and level it from one end with pretty basic equipment if all it has to do is conduct water downhill and exit roughly where expected... but without real expert surveyors with modern equipment I couldn't possibly do it from both ends and have any secure hope of meeting in the middle.
That was the one I am on about should have a better look at the posting and not had so much red wine, I will see if i can find the bit about the tunnels in Shalesmoor.
Some where around Kelham Island has some large storage sellers full of WW2 stuff

Any pre 1800's tunnels, even if they did exist are not likely to be there now.
However, train tunnels might still be around.
There are some on this map:
http://old-maps.co.uk/oldmaps/servlet/RawImageServlet?application=oldmaps&command=omStartup.sh&operation=large&save=OFF&imageList=/datar/raid6/40york1/ep1/40294001.TIF&projParams=33%2032767%202%209%206377563.3959999997 %200.0066705398%201.0000000000%200.0000000000%20-1.0804866552%2053.9620170593%200.0000000000%200.00 00000000%200.0000000000%200.0000000000%200.0000000 000%200.0000000000%200.0000000000%200.0000000000%2 00.0000000000&westTM=434941.0&eastTM=437175.0&southTM=386868.7021755439&northTM=388365.2978244561&zoomLevel=6&winWidth=2666&winHeight=1786
In the top middle you can see around spital hill and the old train station.
And don't forget the totley tunnel ;)
Oh and there are more than likely to be service tunnels for the hospitals and universities.

Infact after studying that old map i decided to place a modern day aerial photograph over where it says the tunnel is. There's still something there, so maybe someone could say if it is still the tunnel entrance (the old map is 1850)
http://img102.imageshack.us/my.php?image=overlaynj8.jpg <- the overlayed map
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/6499/overlay2xx6.th.jpg (http://img82.imageshack.us/my.php?image=overlay2xx6.jpg)<- original old map

After reading the other LONG threads about tunnels or possible tunnels under Sheffield and SOOO many referances to Mary #@?!"£!!! Queen of Scots I thought that this thread could be used for people to put on either pictures or post replies that say EXACTLY where any possible entrance to a tunnel or otherwise could be found and looked at if anyone wished to investigate for themselves.

After looking at the other threads I drew up this list of every rumour and story about where these tunnels are. PLEASE NOTE THAT NONE OF THESE TO MY KNOWLEDGE HAVE BEEN PROVEN!!!!

Queens Head Pub > Manor Lodge (Castle) > Sheffield Castle
Tunnels linking shops together on the Moor and Fargate
The Ponderosa under Crookes Valley Road > The Park
Univercity of Sheffield St. Georges lecture theater > Mappin Buildings
Sheffield Castle > "Old castle that is where Pyebank School and Pitsmoor Estate is now"
Cossack Pub tunnel entrance blocked off
Skye Edge "Vast hole, maybe tunnel" > Manor Lodge
Halifax Hall > Town Hall
Beauchief Abbey > Norton Church
Ship Inn (Shalesmoor) > River
Ecclesfield Church > Whitely Hall
Underground Railway from Queens Road (near Ice rink) > Norton College
Large Bomb shelter under Moorfoot
Tunnels under City Hall, Town Hall and a Large complex toward Don Valley
Possible Nuclear Shelter and tunnels under the Midland Bank building just beyond the Wicker Arches
Earl of Arundall and Surrey Pub > High Street
York Street > Cathedral
Cross Keys Pub > Handsworth Grange > Manor Lodge > Sheffield Castle
Hillsborough Barracks > 393 Club (possible old medical block)
Bishops House > Meersbrook Hall
Beauchief Abbey > Millhouses Cornmill
Old Subways under Moorfoot and between Surrey and Howard Streets
Train Tunnel from Wicker under Pitsmoor to LNER goods yard
Westbar Police station > Courts
Boots > Cathedral
Hartshead > ?

Layer theory:- Layer 1 near city floor possible connection of air raid shelters.
Layer 2 Tunnels associated with Castle.
Layer 3 "Nuclear" tunnels accessed by other two layers.

Whether or not they exist is up to you, BUT IF YOU DO KNOW WHERE THEY ARE TELL US!!!!

Thank you.

The Sheffield Star archives will have a story on one of them, at the time it had a picture as well. It was uncovered when the tram or pond street was being redeveloped. I don't live in Sheffield so can't access the archives...but it's there...I promise!

What legend said ... :)

There was one at the queens head but dont think it went to the manor house.

I can testify and bear witnessto the tunnel under Crookes Valley Rd - and I bet so can all of the people who read this thread who lived in the area prior to the slum clearance and re landscaping of the land next to Mushroom Lane

When I was a kid there was a street that wound its way up from the 'Tip' now top of Ponderosa, to Mushroom Lane. As climbed it doubled back on itself and built into the hillside were two enormous (to a youngster) metal doors - I think they were green. Even closed they always spooked me. Some of the "older lads" once were walking past and the doors were open - so being curious they went in - they had not got very far when they were chased out again, presumably by a council employee. They asked him where it led and they were told ' to Western Park'. If memory serves me there was a circular wall in the park jsut behind one of the bowling pavilions - that is where the tunnel came out. What its purpose was - I have'nt got a cluse. I remember reading that during WW2 or (I) the tunnel being used for storing the barrage ballons - that were flown from the Tip.

I've no reason to tell stories Harry 1000, those doors live with me even now 40+ years later - and they were no flight of imagination

There were air raid shelters on the field on Prince of Wales Rd, behind where the Travelodge is now. You could go in one end, walk right through all the shelters and come out the other end. They were scary when we were kids.Also, there is rumoured to be a tunnel leading from Ecclesfield church to Whitley Hall Hotel, half a mile away across fields. Apparently Mary Queen of Scots stayed there.

The railway tunnel from the old Wicker Goods Station to the Bridgehouses Goods Station is clear to see on the 1903 OS map.

:) there was 1 up high hazels park area,my m8s dad was park ranger & told us 2 stay away[early60s] that was sposed 2 go 2 darnall [summat 2 do with mary queen o scots] & then in 2 town 2 the river don.there was definetly 1 on canklow roundabout[late 60s][cos we explored it-ok i know its not sheffield]& it went in 2 what was called boston hill[with the castle on top-that just looked like a rock stars mansion & not a castle 2 me]apparantly that had been aquired by the kp crisp factory[that was on the other side of the roundabout]& used as a store from the m-o-d,local legend said that it was linked 2 the castle up darnall via howarth hall .our ole fella reckoned it was an ammo dump 4 the ak ak batteries that were all over the place during ww2 which is more feasable 2 me cos sheff was 1 o the most bombed cities on the planet during the blitz.

:( p.s. was the castle up darnall called carbrooke castle?

Makes me wonder if Mary Queen of Scots ever saw daylight, - poor wretch must have spent most of her time in Sheffield groping around slime-dripping , foul-smelling, rat-infested tunnels :P

:( p.s. was the castle up darnall called carbrooke castle?

What castle 'up Darnall' ?

Carbrook Hall was on Attercliffe Common, still is - opposite Meadowhall Retail Park. :D

:) half way up city rd left side,where the crematorium was [is?]

:) sry could it be manor castle?

:) back 2 highhazels [woods[ which us kids in brinsworth reckoned were ours cos they started at the marshalling yards-lol. u could walk in a straight line [more or less] 2 darnall-or if u skirted the golf course 2 wards orgreave u came 2 the old watch tower & just below were the old gunpits[not so old then]that was all connected by tunnels & that was s'posed to link 2 sheff city centre.

:hihi:


The tunnel to the goods yard existed in 1968 as I used to walk my dog in the area.

There was however no track and it was blocked at the goods yard end.

Note about it here:

http://www.burngreavemessenger.org.uk/33aug03/poorjohn.htm

Also found a picture from 1979

http://johnlawontherails.fotopic.net/p26853847.html

I'm interested in Cold War relics in Sheffield and notice nuclear references in this thread. From what I have worked out there are were no official shelters in Sheffield. The Council designated a broom cupboard in the Town Hall and pocketted the cash given by the government for building a real shelter. All I could find is a Royal Signals underground observation post on Abbeydale golf course and a private shelter in Loxley Valley, which is probably now a wine cellar. The railway tunnel at bridgehouses was filled in with the remains of the Royal Hospital

:) i heard in the late 70s they'd built a fallout shelter under the new town hall building & there was a big stink cos they'd used an irish building firm 2 do the nessasary & some 1 high up di'nt think this was 2 cool cos o the possible terrorist connection with the ira & suchlike.mebbe this was an urban myth circulated by disgruntled rate payers, i believe it but then again elvis really does work in our chippie.

One tunnel runs under the banner cross hotel in Greystones.

I seem to recall my old man who was a journalist at the Star telling me about the nuclear shelter under the peace gardens that would hold about 200 / 300 people, the likes of local dignitaries, doctors, scientists etc.

Theres one that runs under the Firestation museum on West bar, it runs underneath the firestation and halfway under the building next door. But due to new buildings being built there it is now bricked up, even though quite a bit still exists. We were shown them when we investigated the buildings. Also the old building plans show a old cellar that no longer has a entrance. :thumbsup:

Pllleeeaaasseee no more referances to Mary Queen of Scots. I spent hours reading the same thing over and over on the other thread! No more rumours!!!! If you have a tunnel or possible tunnel please say were it is and how people can look for it. Even if it is blocked off! Thanyou to Leg-End, Greybeard and Docmel for no nonsense about "friend of a friend told me.." stuff! Also cheers to Greybeard for hopefully the last and funniest mention of Mary-whats-er-face!!!

Also cheers to Bikertec for the one under the Fire Station Museum. I was there the same time and they are interesting.

The tunnels under the fire and police museum possibly lead to the old court house. One seems to head in that direction out under the road. The other heads toward the police HQ, don't know where that one could have led to though as I don't know if anything relevent to the fire brigade or police force was off in that direction. Remember when the place was built the area had the nick name "Little Chicago" because of the high number of gangs in the area.

When you say the old court house where do you mean please?
There used to be a jail back on Scotland Street, is that where you mean?
Thanks

When there was an underpass at the bottom of Fargate (with the basement entrance to Boots) I seem to recall at the other side (near the Star offices) there was a door set into the side wall.

Theres a big tunnel on coporation street underneath the factorys because when they started work you could see from the factory down into it.

I worked at the old Van Allan fashions shop on the High St in the late 70s/early 80s and the basement store room was reputed to have a blocked up entrance to a tunnel which I think led to the Cathedral or certainly across High St. I remember the first time I went down there I had the sense I was being watched and it was only later on whe nI heard other staff talking about it that I discovered it was haunted...

Van Allan's was roughly where HMV/MacDonald's is now.

There are 'conduits' through which the Porter runs after it leaves Endcliffe Park, all the way to where it joins the Sheaf, and through which the Sheaf runs prior to surfacing at the Don.

Come on Harry, you know full well who she is. She is Mary, Queen of Scots. (only joking)

When you say the old court house where do you mean please?
There used to be a jail back on Scotland Street, is that where you mean?
Thanks
On Waingate the big building with the clock tower used to be the old court house. A tunnel seems to run from under the fire engine museum on Westbar in that direction, which would make sense for transporting undesirables. The other tunnel seemed to run toward Scotland street and if as you say there used to be a jail up there that would make sense.

Theres a big tunnel on coporation street underneath the factorys because when they started work you could see from the factory down into it.
Yes, good, but is there any way to look at it today? Even if it is just a blocked off entrance it would be a start for anyone wanting to delve deeper! I don't mean to sound rude but we want something solid to look at. Rumours on the other thread please!!

I worked at the old Van Allan fashions shop on the High St in the late 70s/early 80s and the basement store room was reputed to have a blocked up entrance to a tunnel which I think led to the Cathedral or certainly across High St. I remember the first time I went down there I had the sense I was being watched and it was only later on whe nI heard other staff talking about it that I discovered it was haunted...

Van Allan's was roughly where HMV/MacDonald's is now.
There have been RUMOURS of a blocked up entrance in the cellar of either Boots / HMV / McDonalds somewhere so if somebody out there in forum land has access to any of the cellars of said places please take a picture and post it!

Come on Harry, you know full well who she is. She is Mary, Queen of Scots. (only joking)
My head hurts...Must stop hitting it against the wall...!!

As I understand tunnels near or under the old town hall/court house near the market are part of Sheffield Castle which covered the whole area. I quote from The Story of Sheffield Castle by Davis Saville.
Years ago workmen carrying out a job in connection with the main drainage sytem had to carry out work out through Castle Hill. A tunnel was located at quite a depth. It was said the tunnel was 18ft below Waingate. It was thought the tunnel could hae been 40ft deep under the River Sheaf just above the weir. On running towards the market hall it was quite hard to judge whether it carried on to the Manor. The passage was quite blocked with rubble but even so it was still around 4 or 5 ft in height." You can get a copy of the book in the Sheffield shop near the Millenium Galleries. I can't see Mary Queen of Scots using it as she was over six foot tall. She'd have ended up like the hunchback of Notre Dame. I expect it was a way of supplying the castle.

If anyone has a copy of that book, please see if it mentions the location of the entrance and whether it survived (probably not). Eighteen feet down is quite a way though. Regardless of whether or not it went to the Manor, would that depth have gotten it under the river? Would the soil quality permit this?

i have seen one of these, it scared the **** out of me! me don't like dark...but it is the tunnel linking the Bankers Draft to the Boots on Fargate..it is in the cellar. i used to work there. hence the knowledge and the fear of it

Did you see the acutal tunnel and is it possible to get a photograph of it or did you just see a blocked off entrance or a locked door and was told where it went.

Further to technology in the time of Elizabeth I, as regarding the possibility of navigating under ground for a long distance, would a compass work underground? What you do is dig down as deep as you want, take a bearing of the direction you want, dig in a straight line in that direction for the distance you want, then keep going like that with help from people above ground until you get to your destination.

This was really interesting topic, didnt know about any tunnels!

The tunnel from Ecclesfield Church to Whitley Hall does/did exist. It does not go from the Church, but from another building in that area. I have seen the bricked up entrance and it is UPSTAIRS. I have also seen the entrance at Whitley Hall. The last known persons to attempt to get in it were troops stationed in the area during WW2. They gave it up as a bad job after a hundred feet or so as it had caved in. It would be wrong without permission from the present day occupiers of the building, to state which building it is but, take my word it is there.

I seem to recall my old man who was a journalist at the Star telling me about the nuclear shelter under the peace gardens that would hold about 200 / 300 people, the likes of local dignitaries, doctors, scientists etc.


It wouldn't do them an ounce of good as when they came out there would be nothing/nobody to administer to. It would be a living hell.

I don't know if it's just a disused pipe but there is an opening in the hillside in Crookes Valley Park, looks as thought it goes under the playing field behind it. It's got railings around it but I took a photo today while walking the dogs.

As soon as I've uploaded the picture to the pc, I'll post it on here for you - you can tell me if it was a tunnel or a pipe! :lol:

hi,docmel the tunnel under crookes valley road ( accessed from the canada )
bromley st to mushroom lane. I was informed as a lad housed some type of over flow pipe / pump for crookes valley dam , when we wee kids we found the steel doors open one day with no one around we dashed home for torches
and went exploring we followed a long thick metal pipe with turn wheels at intervals, we were absolutely bricking it ,at the end we could see daylight and found ourselves looking up a circular stone shaft about 10 / 12 ft diam with a steel ladder up the side it was about 30 ft to the top but as kids it seemed much higher. at the top we were met by strands of barbed wire after we struggled past this it was about a 9 ft drop to the ground and we were directly behind the park keepers hut at the bowling green , the shaft where we emerged was hidden by thick bushes

hi,docmel the tunnel under crookes valley road ( accessed from the canada )
bromley st to mushroom lane. I was informed as a lad housed some type of over flow pipe / pump for crookes valley dam , when we wee kids we found the steel doors open one day with no one around we dashed home for torches
and went exploring we followed a long thick metal pipe with turn wheels at intervals, we were absolutely bricking it ,at the end we could see daylight and found ourselves looking up a circular stone shaft about 10 / 12 ft diam with a steel ladder up the side it was about 30 ft to the top but as kids it seemed much higher. at the top we were met by strands of barbed wire after we struggled past this it was about a 9 ft drop to the ground and we were directly behind the park keepers hut at the bowling green , the shaft where we emerged was hidden by thick bushes

Yes I know where you mean! There's still thick bushes on it now, the dogs always, without fail, go to that shaft (now covered over with a grid) and sniff around!

The railway tunnel from the old Wicker Goods Station to the Bridgehouses Goods Station is clear to see on the 1903 OS map.

and indeed by walking up to the entrances - though both are blocked up.

I don't know if it's just a disused pipe but there is an opening in the hillside in Crookes Valley Park, looks as thought it goes under the playing field behind it. It's got railings around it but I took a photo today while walking the dogs.

As soon as I've uploaded the picture to the pc, I'll post it on here for you - you can tell me if it was a tunnel or a pipe! :lol:

Sorry guys, asked a friend today and was told it's a disused pipe that supplied the lake in Crookes Valley Park!
Apparently it ran from the reservoir that's now covered by a playing field (behind Crookes Valley Park) through the wooded area and then connected to piping to supply the lake in Crookes Valley Park.

As on the other thread alot of posts about tunnels turned out to be in relation to the drainage / sewage / pumping needs of the city. What we are looking for is proof if there is any of tunnels designed specifically for the transportation of people underground from one place to the next (and I don't mean public subways such as the disused one at the top of the moor). These may have been forgotten about, bricked up, disused or declared secret by the powers that be.

All that we really need to check some of this is to contact the right people, and perhaps spend a day or two in the archives and another day or 2 following up the leads.

I've heard stories of pub cellars having entrances to tunnels, and i suppose it's quite likely; what with the age of some pub buildings (or the foundations / cellars at least) that they do.

Realistically, any tunnel from the 1600's will have caved in, but it's likely that the universities and perhaps the hospitals have some sort of service / steam tunnels. I should think the town hall will have 'something' in the basement; most do. The royal observer corps bunker on abbeydale gold course definately exist, but is well locked. They all look the same, but are pretty cool to go in and explore.

Here's a quote from the archives:
Conveying property from the Duke's trustees to the Sheffield Waterworks Co. 1853-64.
Conveyances (several with maps) of Rivelin Bridge Wheel, Upper Coppice Wheel, Second Coppice Wheel, Rivelin Paper Mill, Frank Wheel, Rivelin Corn Mill; covenants to maintain accommodation works (in connection with the wheels sold); conveyance of land for underground pipes, conduits and 'tunnel' to the Sheffield Waterworks. 1861.
Abstract of title to the property. 1857-61.
Particulars of land sold, extracts from trustees' accounts, relevant correspondence. 1853-64.

I think you are probably right, DBSx2. A day in the archives is needed because anything of interest will be there.

What look like new tunnels have been found on the development outside the Train Station -- but -- instead of informing the Archaeology dept about the discovery the holes into the tunnels were quickly filled so as the impending excavation would mean a delay on the project.One tunnel was just outside where the tram depot was (just near the Norfolk Pub). In all two tunnels were found and as to whether they were ancient or just old we will never know.

I hate it when that happens!

What look like new tunnels have been found on the development outside the Train Station -- but -- instead of informing the Archaeology dept about the discovery the holes into the tunnels were quickly filled so as the impending excavation would mean a delay on the project.One tunnel was just outside where the tram depot was (just near the Norfolk Pub). In all two tunnels were found and as to whether they were ancient or just old we will never know.

There were a lot of goits in that area which were culverted as the area became built-up. Eventually the mill dams they served were themselves filled in and built on and the goits forgotten about, - until perhaps a JCB fell into one :D

The council probably have plans of these in their archives, - unless they were passed to the water board when responsibility for sewage and drainage was transferred.

What is a Goit? And what do you mean by culverting them? Please forgive me for being thick but I wondered about this on the other thread.

there are tunnels under the town hall, mumused to work ther and went in them many years ago

What is a Goit? And what do you mean by culverting them? Please forgive me for being thick but I wondered about this on the other thread.

A goit is usually the water channel that runs from a weir on the river to a mill dam. After the water has 'driven' the wheel another goit takes the water back to the river.

Culverting is constructing a brickwork tunnel over a water channel to allow building over it.

The pressure for development in the lower Sheaf valley meant that many of the goits were culverted so that bulding could proceed without inetrfering with the operation of the mill dams.

Most of the rivers Sheaf and Porter in the area are now completely 'culverted' underground.

Cheers, Greybeard! That clears that one up for me!

there are tunnels under the town hall, mumused to work ther and went in them many years ago
Where under the town hall? Is there an entrance that can be seen and photographed? Where did it / they go? Your Mum used to go down in them but for what reason? Don't mean to sound rude but we need more than just a vague referance!

facinating thread...

The ship Inn Shalesmoor

http://www.sheffieldpub.co.uk/pubs/shalesmoor/ship-inn/

Further to technology in the time of Elizabeth I, as regarding the possibility of navigating under ground for a long distance, would a compass work underground? What you do is dig down as deep as you want, take a bearing of the direction you want, dig in a straight line in that direction for the distance you want, then keep going like that with help from people above ground until you get to your destination.
Ventilation shafts were needed every so often along a tunnel so when they built the shaft top they continued it above ground level and by using line of sight a bearing could be taken between two shafts.

Sometimes men would start tunnelling from two shafts and meet in the middle, not only did they have to get the direction right but they had to get the depth right as well.

By the time Totley Tunnel which is nearly 4 miles long was constructed technology had advanced a little but the principle was the same. They set the line of the tunnel from four high points - Bradway Summit, the moor above the tunnel, Sir William Hill, and Grindleford. They laid a line out on the ground and bored shafts at intervals. The line and depth of the tunnel was established by suspending weighted wires, of known length, down the shafts and by the use of a theodolite at the headings. The accuracy of this method was such that when the headings met, the centre line was only 4 ½" out of line horizontally and 2 1/4" vertically.

I saw this and thought of you, not evidence but possibly something which may help you?

Going underground

Site investigations are helping to reveal details about conditions underground, which will be used to design the foundations for the NRQ.

Robert Talby, Associate from the Sheffield office of Arup, engineers for the NRQ: "Historically, Sheffield has been mined for coal, with the Silkstone coal seam known to run under the centre of the city. The investigations may show evidence of mining of other coal seams, which we will need to account for in building future foundations for the New Retail Quarter, to ensure the land and all the buildings on it are fully supported."

A 20 metre deep underground service yard will also be built as part of the scheme. This yard will enable all vehicles to make their deliveries to retailers from below ground, rather than at street level. This will minimise, if not completely remove, the number of delivery vehicles that will need to park outside the shops in the NRQ.

The ship Inn Shalesmoor

http://www.sheffieldpub.co.uk/pubs/shalesmoor/ship-inn/

In the Sheffield flood of 1864, two seamen drowned without a trace in secret tunnels leading from the inn to the river. Ghostly sightings in the inn are thought to be linked to that incident!

They weren't seamen, - they were smugglers who had rowed all the way from Grimsby with barrels of illicit brandy.

They picked the wrong night to deliver it ! :D

"Historically, Sheffield has been mined for coal, with the Silkstone coal seam known to run under the centre of the city. The investigations may show evidence of mining of other coal seams, which we will need to account for in building future foundations for the New Retail Quarter, to ensure the land and all the buildings on it are fully supported."




Indeed, - Cambridge street was formerly known as Coal Pit lane.

I suppose these: http://www.pbase.com/ptigga/image/35456628 are what can be confused for tunnels under the train station development, though the brick structure looks more of a drain / culvert. Still wouldn't mind getting my wellies on ;)

I suppose these: http://www.pbase.com/ptigga/image/35456628 are what can be confused for tunnels under the train station development, though the brick structure looks more of a drain / culvert. Still wouldn't mind getting my wellies on ;)


A lot of history in that photo, especially those long-buried walls and footings. The river Sheaf runs in a culvert past or possibly under the station but it would have to be larger than the one in the photo.

In fact that culvert could be the one covering the head goit supplying the pond on the right in this plan...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/Taidi/Ponds.jpg

... quite close to where the Porter joins the Sheaf.

Indeed, - Cambridge street was formerly known as Coal Pit lane.
To give the newly founded city of Sheffield a more grander air, more than one street name was changed, Workhouse Croft was changed to Paradise Street, for example.

Going underground

Site investigations are helping to reveal details about conditions underground, which will be used to design the foundations for the NRQ.

A 20 metre deep underground service yard will also be built as part of the scheme. This yard will enable all vehicles to make their deliveries to retailers from below ground, rather than at street level. This will minimise, if not completely remove, the number of delivery vehicles that will need to park outside the shops in the NRQ.
Was this ever built, if so, where and is it still used today?

Would it be physically possible to put on a hard hat, equip yourself with a large torch and supply of batteries, a digital video camera, (take all precautions needed) etc and jump in a canoo and follow the Porter Brook or other rivers under the city? It is a well known story of the smugglers in the Ship Inn tunnel, but where did the tunnel emerge?

Also, I think it is unlikey that the other pubs around the Ship Inn would let that be the only Inn with a cheap supply of booze etc. Possibly, they would want their cut of the trade or the authorities would find out. Now, how to keep the operation hush hush? I know! Lets connect our cellars together with tunnel!
Remember all that area was known as "Little Chicago" for the amount of gangs in the area.

Would it be physically possible to put on a hard hat, equip yourself with a large torch and supply of batteries, a digital video camera, (take all precautions needed) etc and jump in a canoo and follow the Porter Brook or other rivers under the city? It is a well known story of the smugglers in the Ship Inn tunnel, but where did the tunnel emerge?
You might be better wading then canoeing, though i'm not sure how deep they'd be?
Try listening to this BBC Report (http://www.bbc.co.uk/leeds/realmedia/hidden_leeds_culverts.ram) on leeds culverts under the city.

To give the newly founded city of Sheffield a more grander air, more than one street name was changed, Workhouse Croft was changed to Paradise Street, for example.

As per R E Leader :D The point though is that the old street name points to underground workings in the area of Cambridge street and the NRQ.

It is a well known story of the smugglers in the Ship Inn tunnel, but where did the tunnel emerge?

No it isn't - I just made it up !! :confused: :help:

Any tunnels in that area would likely have been put in to assist with the drainage of natural watercourses as the area became built-up. There were a few streams rising from springs in the high ground to the west - Brook Hill is named after one and Watery lane after another. I believe when the Crookes dams were built a culvert was put in to take any overflow down to the river.

Where under the town hall? Is there an entrance that can be seen and photographed? Where did it / they go? Your Mum used to go down in them but for what reason? Don't mean to sound rude but we need more than just a vague referance!
I don't know if this helps, but the cellar levels of the Town Hall consists of arched corridors and openings to rooms, presumably to support the weight of the building. I suppose these could look like tunnels, but they don't go beyond the foundations of the building.

No it isn't - I just made it up !! :confused: :help:

Any tunnels in that area would likely have been put in to assist with the drainage of natural watercourses as the area became built-up. There were a few streams rising from springs in the high ground to the west - Brook Hill is named after one and Watery lane after another. I believe when the Crookes dams were built a culvert was put in to take any overflow down to the river.
I was sure that on the wall to the Ship Inn there is one of those plaques that have the story on it. Be they smugglers or sailors the story goes that they were drown in a passage way of some kind that led from the cellar to the river.
Either that or you made up a simple story that many people have taken as fact, in which case, well done!:) :suspect:

Ahhh R. E. Leader, a font of first hand knowledge on a town / city that has seen many changes!

I don't know if this helps, but the cellar levels of the Town Hall consists of arched corridors and openings to rooms, presumably to support the weight of the building. I suppose these could look like tunnels, but they don't go beyond the foundations of the building.
Very helpful, thankyou. If this is true, (and I see no reason why it shouldn't be) then there are no tunnels under the townhall as suggested in the other thread! But is it possible to get a photo posted to remove the townhall from any investigating?

They weren't seamen, - they were smugglers who had rowed all the way from Grimsby with barrels of illicit brandy.

They picked the wrong night to deliver it ! :D
Ah, you mean you made this bit up!:rolleyes:

OY!!! SOMEBODY NICKED MY THREAD!!!!:rant: :mad:

Ah, you mean you made this bit up!:rolleyes:

Yes I made that bit up :) but OTOH what proof is there for the 'facts' outlined in the original claim ? http://www.sheffieldpub.co.uk/pubs/shalesmoor/ship-inn/

I doubt the 'tunnels' if they existed were 'secret' - more likely drainage channels that had been forgotten about.

And "two seamen drowned without a trace in secret tunnels" is a little hard to swallow - If these two were staying at the inn on the night of the flood and their bodies were not found they would be just two of the several people who diappeared without trace on that night. No need to invent secret tunnels to account for their bodies not being found.

You make a good point, Greybeard, and could be correct. However, why would someone invent a story about missing people in tunnels at the time of the flood when they could just be truthful and said "Included in the death toll of those swept away,two men from the Ship Inn have also fallen victim to the floodwater." If there was nothing special in the circumstances of their disappearance, why mention them at all?

[QUOTE=Greybeard]And "two seamen drowned without a trace in secret tunnels" is a little hard to swallowQUOTE]

you need to re-phrase that greybeard...sounds quite rude :hihi:

The good thing about this subject is that no one can prove exactly what, if anything, is beneath the city (other than the obvious, drainage etc.). So it just rolls on and on...

The good thing about this subject is that no one can prove exactly what, if anything, is beneath the city (other than the obvious, drainage etc.). So it just rolls on and on...
I don't think so, not if you apply a little reality.

Who and for what reason would anyone want to construct a tunnel up City Road between the Castle and Mannor Lodge?

Why would they need to do it? The people in the Castle were powerful barons who governed the countryside for miles around, they were mounted, and they usually went everywhere with their household knights. They had no need to run away and hide in any tunnel, one word and any trouble makers would be clamped in irons and placed in the dungeon.

You are probably correct, but how can it be proved one way or the other? Some tunnels did exist to connect cellars together or to transport prisoners to court or into holding without using surface roads, as at the firestation museum on West Bar. But as for the older ones? Without proof, who knows?

Back in the 80's there was a multi-story company HQ at the roundabout at the bottom of Ecclesall Road called Davy Computing.

Seemingly authoritative rumour (!) used to have it that they had a sizeable undergound computing facility beneath what is now Waitrose car park.

Anyone ever hear of this?

I've put this back in the thread somewhere, but search picturesheffield for 'hartshead tunnel'.

Thats one at least.

There is definitely a tunnel, or better known as a culvert, running from the junction of the Don and Sheaf by Caslte Markets which runs past the front of the Midland Railway station.

There are also several culverts running under the lower Ecclesall Road area and onwards to Bramall Lane that carries the Porter Brook.

Wonder if these are being mistaken for 'secret' access tunnels.

My first job was working for a firm called Poter wright ans company who were Wine and Spirit merchants with offices and a warehouse on Castle Green down from the Hen and Chickens Pub it was demolished within a few weeks of me starting there in 1963. In one of the cellars thaere was a bricked up entrance that was clearly a large tunnel its direction was towards Exchange street therefore the Castle.

If the cellars were originally part of the tunnel then from the directio logically it would have ended somewhere near the river at the bottom of Millsands.

I saw it, I have no idea when or why it was bricked up it was big enough to drive a coach and horses through easily.

Sounds like some of these tunnells may be old sally ports for the castle. These were consealed entrances, mainly escape routes with their entrances often consealed in undergrowth. At the castle end would be a door or portcullis.
Some other stories are possibly loading tunnells from the river to business premises. Sorry not familiar with Sheffield but this could explain some of the rumours.

As doubting Thomas said "Show me the holes and I'll believe" :huh:

found this,, the link is below it

Have heard a few stories about the Dove and Rainbow ghost from former occupiers of the premises, and
pending full research, it appears that there are at least 2 spiritual presences inhabiting the cellars and underground corridor and old tunnels below the Dove and Rainbow.

Beneath Sheffield hundreds of years ago was an extensive network of underground tunnels, linking key parts of the City, such as the original Sheffield Castle, Cathedral, and other private and public buildings, many of which are long gone, such as the old Corn Exchange. These tunnels still exist but are mostly bricked up or all traces of the access points have been buried under new developments in the last 200 years.

The Dove and Rainbow original pub was destroyed by fire in the late 18th Century, but its believed the original public ale house with the same name dates back to the 17th Century and possibly before that. It would have been built adjacent, or integrated with, the network of underground tunnels which made the ground below the City Centre a rabbit warren of passages and routes. A second version was built sometime after 1782. While the present Dove and Rainbow was rebuilt in 1955 after the 2nd version was destroyed during the WW2 blitz, some of the present cellarworks comprise sections of the original and 2nd Dove earthworks.

It is believed that the old 1955 built disused oil fired boiler room actually is part of the 2nd incarnation of the Dove and Rainbow cellar from the 18th Century, which had access to a series of old smuggling tunnels leading to the Ladysbridge area, and which also emerged under water near the actual bridge itself. There is indeed a small tunnel entrance section leading off this old boiler room, which appears to head off under Hartshead Square heading down towards the River and market area. The tunnels are believed to lead also the cellars of the Old Queens head pub, and the Tap and Spile cellars.

LATEST:
Entrance to secret smugglers tunnel running from original Dove and Rainbow cellars has been located. The passage in the 18th century was used by contraband smugglers to these 3 Sheffield old pubs, transporting illegal spirits and other items. The tunnel has been located down a old dead end passage off the original Dove and Rainbow cellars, below the present operational beer cellars, and is currently partially flooded. More investigations will take place soon..... :thumbsup:

http://www.doveandrainbow.com/haunted.htm

Another find,,, link below


Cross Keys. 400 Handsworth Road

One of the strangest pubs in Sheffield, it is built on church land and has a graveyard in the back garden.

The site dates from before 1250, but little of the original buildings can be identified. The original pub is the centre building. This was a church wardens house but was sold in 1800 for £43, and obtained a £2 licence under the Beer House Act in 1804. The left hand building was added as living accomodation in Victorian times.

Under the pub is a maze of tunnels dating from its time as a chuch property. One ran under the road to Hansworth Hall, another is said to run to Manor Lodge.

After brewing its own beer for almost 100 years the Cross keys fell first into the hands of Brunswick's Wath Brewery, and then to Mappins of Masborough. Mappins sold out to Stones in 1954, who in turn fell to Bass in 1968.

:huh:

http://www.sheffieldpubs.fsnet.co.uk/Business/pubs/crosskeys.htm

Yet another


Old Queen's Head. 40 Pond Hill
The age of the Old Queen's Head is not in doubt. Its history can be traced back to at least 1505 when it is recorded as a hunting lodge. There is a maze of tunnels in the Pond Street area, and it is said that there was direct underground access to Sheffield Castle. Later the building was used as a laundry house for Sheffield Manor.

It became a beerhouse in 1841 when its' owner took a licence under the Beer House Act, to supplement his income as a rivet maker.

In the 1930s there were plans to demolish the building in a major redevelopment of the Pond Street area. The war intervened and the nearby Rawson's brewery, which had dominated the area was destroyed. The face of Pond Street was changed, and in the new economic climate plans were altered. It was even suggested that the building could be used as a refreshment kiosk for the new bus station!

Now of course the building is listed, and no longer under threat, although it has been extended.


http://www.sheffieldpubs.fsnet.co.uk/Business/pubs/oldqueenshead.htm

Today it is evident that the greatest natural assets of Sheffield have been neglected. The Don is cut off from the city centre by roads or tracts of industrial wasteland. The combined Porter and Sheaf now flow into the Don through a network of tunnels, emerging only occasionally to be hidden amongst derelict industrial buildings.

http://sccplugins.sheffield.gov.uk/urban_design/rivers_city.htm

I posted this on the Dove & Rainbow thread a while ago, but it's relevant here as well I think.
I found the following in a scrapbook in the Local Studies Library by a man called Henry Tatton. Henry was born in 1861 and for 50 years kept an ironmongers stall in the Market Hall. He died in 1946, but at the age of 59, in 1920, he decided to learn to draw, and kept these scrapbooks of his drawings of Sheffield. He also scattered them with things he came across he thought were interesting. The following he got from the Sheffield Daily Telegraph, but didn't note the date. If you want to look it up it's in volume 3 of his notes, page 229.

"Underground passages in Sheffield.
There are old coal mine workings in the vicinity of Rockingham Street. The Manor passage may have been used to bring drinking water to the Park from the Manor well or spring. Then there was the wooden pipes made from hollowed tree trunks used to convey water from Brookhill to the Hartshead. These carrier passages are being put forward as subterranean passages. Fragments of tunnels found under the Castle Hill, same size as the Manor Passage. There is another passage at the Manor, going West. A passage was found underneath the road, from the Cross Keys Handsworth, running in the direction of Handsworth Church. Also another passage from Handsworth Church to the Manor, by Handsworth Hall Farm. Then a passage was found in the City Road brickfield. It ran in the direction of the Manor. Lined with dressed stones and high enough to walk in. The passage under the tramway Club in High Court, High Street leads into another passing under Cockayne's Arcade. Another passage found under Rodgers Pond Hill Works. Also one running towards the New Post Office from River Lane. Under the Hall in the Ponds, the built up end of another passage which ran towards the Midland Station.
When Priory Road Sharrow was made, a tunnel was found leading from the Old Priory towards the city. In it was found a built up Chamber. It contained a table and 2 oak chairs, some tumblers and a bottle. In one corner remnants of clothing, a rusty armour and a sword 3 feet long. A passage ran from near the present Heeley Station to Newfield Hall and then towards Sheffield castle. In 1925 a Mrs. Jenkinson said an old man told her he had traversed it all the way and said it was about 6 ft. high. One end of it is near Meersbrook Park Rd in the old farmstead buildings. A passage near Glossop Rd led into old coal workings and to a shaft at the corner of Convent Walk."

there use to be a tunnel going to the cross daggers pub in woodhouse but don't know if its true ,

Go walk up to ladysbridge, on the city centre side. Walk along the river on the side where all the new offices are (can't remember what it's called...millsands maybe?) and look across the river (towards wicker) as you are walking. You will see a semi bricked up entrance in the river bank, directly below a car park.

I've been down there, but i'll leave it to any of you if you want look. Just watch out for needles.

Go walk up to ladysbridge, on the city centre side. Walk along the river on the side where all the new offices are (can't remember what it's called...millsands maybe?) and look across the river (towards wicker) as you are walking. You will see a semi bricked up entrance in the river bank, directly below a car park.

I've been down there, but i'll leave it to any of you if you want look. Just watch out for needles.

Is that the one where steps lead down from the back of the car park, the whole thing accessed from Nursery Street next to the Children's Resource Centre? I would have thought the place is liable to flooding, though there is a weir just beyond it.

Yes that's the one. It doesn't flood as the tunnel slopes upwards. To be fair the tunnel only goes back about 10 metres. It then leads into a pretty large wine cellar, presumably once belonging to the building above it. It's full of rubble, again presumably just dumped into the cellar and belonging to the building that is now a car park.

Yes that's the one. It doesn't flood as the tunnel slopes upwards. To be fair the tunnel only goes back about 10 metres. It then leads into a pretty large wine cellar, presumably once belonging to the building above it. It's full of rubble, again presumably just dumped into the cellar and belonging to the building that is now a car park.

No vintage wine then? Damn... :)

Nowt but 10 mile away....


<longitude>-1.422576188023684</longitude>
<latitude>53.23477252017261</latitude>

Nowt but 10 mile away....

<longitude>-1.422576188023684</longitude>
<latitude>53.23477252017261</latitude>

Oooh, what's in Chesterfield?

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=53.23477252017261,-1.422576188023684&ie=UTF8&ll=53.23684,-1.424618&spn=0.011507,0.028625&z=15&om=1

Dang thing won't let me post a revised link, but it's more like 53.23477252017261,-1.4228

It's the portal for the old railway tunnel. There's a wall/fence to climb over to walk down this ramp and explore. The other end is buried behind the bypass wall...

Simon.

I was working at the RIS during the 50's and early 60's. There were tunnels connecting the wards and various departments at that time. Presumably they were built in to the original hospital complex. It's a shame that the hospital has been demolished....I'm not sure what building has been done on that site, but I would like to know how the builders dealt with the tunnels...or, did they utilise them for some other purpose?

I don't get to Sheffield too often because I live in Sydney (Australia).

My mom used to tell me about when she was a child in the 20's, she lived in ladiesbridge(I think that's how you spell it). He schoolfriends father was the rector at Holy Trinity Church there, she said there were tunnels in the crypt of the church which were supposed to lead to the Manor Castle.I don't know if the church is still there. Might be worth a look if it is.

The church is definitely still there and with a very active congregation. Being near the Lady's Bridge however, it was under water when we had the floods in June and it's still out of commission. Don't know about any tunnels, though - they'd have to go under the river.

or be part of the river ;) ;)

We have a tunnel leading from our cellar down to the River........it splits into 2 and one fork runs to the cellars of another pub, the one on the corner of Waingate forgotten its name now....

I don't get to Sheffield too often because I live in Sydney (Australia).

Don't worry Don, watch this thread long enough and somebody's bound to discover a tunnel from Sheffield castle to Sydney:thumbsup:

goldenfleece have you been down there now?
This picture: http://www.silentuk.com/megatron/images/img_2669.jpg
was taken in sheffield

Deleted. Accidental posting.

goldenfleece have you been down there now?
This picture: http://www.silentuk.com/megatron/images/img_2669.jpg
was taken in sheffieldFull story http://www.silentuk.com/writeups/megatron.html

I understand that Beauchief Abbey has its' number of tunnels reaching far and wide but I cannot eleborate on where to or from.

Regarding the HSBC place at Tankersley, I can say with absolute certainty that this is just a computer centre. Having two generators is standard in any place which requires Uninterrupted Power Supply (UPS). If the main power fails, it kicks over to battery while the generators start up. They're serviced independently so one is always available.

The place in underground as it's easier to maintain a regular temperature. The tubes you can see coming up are the charcoal air filters to ensure that the air in the server rooms is cold and clean.

Finally, regarding the armoured appearance of the place. It was built in the late 70s when the IRAs mainland campaign was at it's worse. It was a target so had extreme security measures in place. For instance, firing a bazooka at the walls would merely deflect the rocket upwards. Raking the guard tower with a machine gun would see the bullets deflected at your feet.

Dunno about tunnels, but I've seen photographs taken in the coal mine which was located when the foundations were being designed for Telephone House on Charter Row.(Cambridge St. was Coal Pit Lane originally). From memory, the workings unearthed were more like a gallery than a mine shaft, and the roof was supported on columns of rock. The rail tracks still remained & I think one of the coal tubs was recovered and handed over to Weston Park museum around 30 years ago.

goldenfleece have you been down there now?
This picture: http://www.silentuk.com/megatron/images/img_2669.jpg
was taken in sheffield

...mostly flooded down to the river

...mostly flooded down to the river

If you go in dry weather you can get as far as 500 meters to the outfall. Gotta be careful to now go after any rain though as the top ends connected to a dam. Which obiously can be filtered whenever...

I understand that Beauchief Abbey has its' number of tunnels reaching far and wide but I cannot eleborate on where to or from.

Nearly everywhere I've been there's been some story like this.
Yes, I've heard it said Beauchief Abbey had tunnels to both the local churches attached to it, at Ecclesall & Norton (where I'm Rector). Think of how long it's going to take to construct Crossrail in London, then imagine what it would be like doing such a project in the 12th cent!

Abbeys were unusual in actually having drains & sewers; Beauchief Abbey even developed a bit of coal mining, though it would have been very shallow. So maybe there are short lengths of tunnel; but not of any length, & not constructed as escape routes.

Sorry to be boring!

I agree with the comments that it would have been nigh impossible to construct tunnels for more than a relatively short distance. I recall wide eyed wonder at the story told by an old stager who lived in Carterknowle Road, opposite the school. He said that when the old house was demolished to build the small estate of mid-30s houses, a tunnel was unearthed. No, he'd not seen it, (no one ever does). The builders told him, he said. If there ever was one, I reckon it wouldn't have extended further than a near-by hedgerow. Like the Great Escape tunnel, going just under the wire. Any sensible middle ages tunneller would have scorned their efforts & extended the workings to Calais, if we are to believe all these tales. And why would anyone need to construct it anyway? Quick way in past the front door for the master when he wanted to creep back in after too many hours spent in the pub, or maybe a way out for the wife's lover when a hasty retreat was called for. Certainly not a route to Beauchief Abbey for secret ritual. Keep on digging, but in the meantime, file all this under Urban Myths !

i wouldnt dismiss the fact that because no tunnels have been found doesnt mean they arn't there,any one who could build such architectural wonders such as minsters,abbey's and castles would have no difficulty in digging a trench and putting a roof over it im sure

perhaps over the centuries the roofs collapsed and the remaining ditch or trenches were later filled in,just because we dont see something doesn't mean it once wasn't there.

There is a tunnel between Whirlow Park and the playing fields over the road I know because we use to go thru it when we were kids. Very exiting at the time.

i wouldnt dismiss the fact that because no tunnels have been found doesnt mean they arn't there,any one who could build such architectural wonders such as minsters,abbey's and castles would have no difficulty in digging a trench and putting a roof over it im sure

perhaps over the centuries the roofs collapsed and the remaining ditch or trenches were later filled in,just because we dont see something doesn't mean it once wasn't there.

But that doesn't address the fundamental question why would they build all these tunnels, given the time and effort involved?

But that doesn't address the fundamental question why would they build all these tunnels, given the time and effort involved?who knows ? maybe they lived in troubled times, there may be no tunnels,but the technology was certainly there if they wanted to build any

Reasons? Bell pits, shallow drift, middens, wells. There's nothing more exciting in Sheffield.

Incidentally, tunnels in and out of castles would have been a positive security hazard, not a safety feature.

When i was a young lad we used to somtimes play around the bottom of Twentywell lane. A raised very secure manhole was pointed out to me and i was told it was a nuclear bunker. Although i was sceptical at the time i some years later noticed Sheffield city council were selling off some property including the bunker. I recently had a walk to see if i could find the locked manhole and it appears to have been filled over. Can anyone else remember this bunker that was almost alongside a cut out (channeled) railway line ?.

I think you are referring to the the Royal Observer Corps post, that (as of may 2006) very much did exist. These are built to a standard design, with nearly 1,600 spread across the country. They were built to monitor blast strength and fallout in the event of nuclear war and were largely stood down in 1991.

There are some pictures of it here:
http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=13325&highlight=beauchief

It is quite difficult to find, but is located on a public footpath, just off the sheffield round walk and in the overspill carpark of the golf course.

Very intresting thanks for that. The 2nd and 3rd pics look exactly as i remember. The locks have been cut off (wonder why) and replaced, you can see what looks like cutting disk marks on the concrete edge. And also the whole thing has been painted white from green.

Sheffield has lots of underground facilities including 5 major 'incident habitats'. Smallest of which is under the City Hall and the square (Barkers Pool) This site is the gathering point of the TA Signals Regiment. Next is under the Lead-mill Bus Depot as was and is the gathering point for all other TA Personnel. Third is under the Peace Gardens stretching to the Crucible Theater and under the multi story car park on pond street, this is a civilian center to be used by local government emergency services. In time of emergency the car park is to be used as both accommodation and storage. Fourth is under the Halamshire Hospital and is obviously for medical purposes. Fifth is under what used to be the old MSC building at the foot of the moor, I'm not certain what this one was designated as but it is by far the deepest and largest.

There are other facilities as well, one under the fire brigades head office near to telecom house, one at the police headquarters and underneath snig hill.

One that can't be identified houses certain valuables and archive records of a most significant importance held in the city for a hundred years or so, access is by permission of the reigning monarch or the arch bishop of Canterbury.

For economic and practical reasons shelters often use mine-workings as a basis and or hills, its much easier to cut into the side of a hill than to dig straight down, plus hills deflect blast which can also be very usefully in terms of making your facility cheaper.

Shelters also need to be cushioned underground to make sure that anyone down there isn't shaken to jelly when a bomb hits, take a look at accounts of second war French soldiers in the Maginot line, in the two places the Germans broke through there are accounts of men bouncing four to five feet when the shells hit their bunkers, the bunkers mostly survived intact but the poor guys in the batteries were mashed to bits. So shelters are built under massive formations of clay which absorbs all the shock, leaving the people intact.

There are lots of reasons why you build a facility, how, and where, it just happens that Sheffield is ideal.

As to the signal bunker with pics the locks were changed when the civil defense organisation was dismantled, and new electronically alarmed locks fitted.

There are many disused tunnels and passages of an historic nature as has been debated, see rec dept and Sheffield Co-op for the annual tour of some of these tunnels.

As well as the above the Nunnery Pit and the Orgreave Mine carved thousands of miles of mine-workings under Sheffield and joined up during the second world war, at which time the Nunnery Pit became redundant. Reader should take a look at the engineering studies done before the estate at Sky edge was built, this is where the Nunnery Pit following the coal seam broke to the surface in many places, and the reason why two engineering firms said that estate should not be built, third guys got the message after the first two were sacked, but the structural problems the estate has endured to this day are a result of building on hollow ground.

An interesting side note is that the area where Sky edge now stands was a very popular spot during the second world war as coal could be dug by anyone with a shovel and the drive to ignore the trespassing law.

One that can't be identified houses certain valuables and archive records of a most significant importance held in the city for a hundred years or so, access is by permission of the reigning monarch or the arch bishop of Canterbury.

.

Straight from a Pete and Dud sketch! Where did you get the rest of your information from?:D

Is that so Algy?

Ever heard of the phrase Due Diligence?

Theres certainly nothing under fire brigade H.Q.. my dad was stationed there for a few years at the end of his service and knows the building like the back of his hand

Do you think bunkers are open for anyone to walk in or have obvious access and egress.

For instance people listed to have access of the town hall bunker are Chief Executive, Leader and Deputy leader of Council although its the Chief exec job to show them where it is, City Treasurer, Lord Lieutenant and deputy, South Yorks Fire Chief, The Chief Constable, and Army maintenance Unit, that's it. I don't know what the access list is for anywhere else, but the reason I know this one is I used to be involved in civil defense and was one of the nominated officers with responsibilities should I ever get the call.

Interestingly there was a group of activists who had contacts in Redvers House in the late seventies that manged to work out where the entrance was and broke in, it took 2 full hours to get the TA at manor top down there to catch them because the police could not have access even to catch intruders.

The bunkers I listed are ones that are functional, there are many others that have been abandoned and sealed, there's one at the bottom of snig hill for instance on the other side of police HQ where the old bus station used to be, access was at colston street under the probation service building, I still have the keys as a souvenir.

There's a thread on here about the hole in the road, take a look at the pictures of when it got filled in and see if you can spot something strange, something that you wou