I was wondering what everyone thought of all the new 'luxury' apartments popping up in and around the town centre, e.g. bottom of ecclesall road, west street, shoreham street, etc. I personally think that giving them the title 'luxury' and installing flash fitted kitchens is a marketing ploy to be able to charge the £100k+ prices they charge for what essentially are small flats in an industrial city's centre. What does everyone else think?

I think it's pretty cool, brings more investment into the city and no one's forcing you to pay for an overpriced apartment if ya don't want to :shock:
The apartments make living in the city centre more desirable which has a positive knock on effect all round.
Maybe they're not everyone's idea of 'luxury' but for first time buyers I would expect they'll be quite luxurious inside :)

i wouldnt want one personally, id rather have a house for the money

I think it's all too late. City centre living was the 'in thing' about four or five years ago.

It's ok if you have a 24 hour city that is worth living in but i'd sooner have a bigger house in the suburbs.

Rather have a house myself, but I can see the attraction of living right in the middle of things. Wasn't the "penthouse" flat at the bottom of Eccy Rd about £375k ?

I think some of them will be a city flat for the very wealthy who already have a house elsewhere.

Yes may be some rich business man buys one for clients to stay overnight, that would be cool.
The West Street development at the moment is trendy but it won,t last.
Someone mentioned that its ok if the city centre is worth living in but clearly ours is,nt though with plans to regenarate it then maybe its not a bad idea, Its not for me personally but its a good thing for the town centre.
My worry would be in 20 years time trying to sell them when the trends no longer there, would they become a glorified Townhead street.

Well i live currently in the development on Leadmill street and i am looking to move in to another similar apartment (probably the ones on ecclesall road). I got in to the whole city center living thing in America. For my lifestyle it's great. Pubs, clubs and good restaurants are all a walk away. I think they are expensive for what you get, and mostly they do use bathrooms and kitchens as selling points. They are small, have no garden and usually you have to pay a maintenance fee. They can be noisy, where we are now we have students and the traffic on shoreham street to contend with. The ones on Ecclesall road are even smaller, but they do have balcony's. But you get loads of noise and pollution from ecclesall road. It's worth noting the apartment we live is went on sale for £67K and is now worth just over 100K. So there is a decent market.
But i love it. Although i would like a garden, i also like the benefits it buys me. I don't have to drive anywhere near as much, i save on Taxis and you just feel like you know what's going on as far as nightlife is concerned.

Inner city living is FAR from four or five year old news! Every major city has seen a huge uptake in city center living. Sheffield will change for the better because of it. Right now many pubs don't open on weekends before the evening session, lots of shops are shut on a Sunday. But that will change as the management realise there are people living there. One example is the Red Lion near me. Nice pub, small outside area. But it's not open on a Saturday or Sunday during the day! I see people walking to the door realising it isn't open an walking away all the time, they haven't adapted very quickly.

Anyway this country constantly has problems with traffic and lack of houses. City center living is the answer to both IMHO. We need to build up, not out. Living close to work and being able to walk to nightlife etc appeals to some people (like me), so give them small over priced apartments if they are willing to pay, because they are doing everybody else a favor.

Originally posted by "back2basics"

Inner city living is FAR from four or five year old news! Every major city has seen a huge uptake in city center living. Sheffield will change for the better because of it. Right now many pubs don't open on weekends before the evening session, lots of shops are shut on a Sunday. But that will change as the management realise there are people living there. One example is the Red Lion near me. Nice pub, small outside area. But it's not open on a Saturday or Sunday during the day! I see people walking to the door realising it isn't open an walking away all the time, they haven't adapted very quickly..

Cities such as Manchester and London have had city centre living for many years. It seems only a recent thing that Sheffield has decided to jump on the bandwagon.

This city is dead on a Sunday and I don't think people living in the centre will change that.

Originally posted by "alchresearch"

Cities such as Manchester and London have had city centre living for many years. It seems only a recent thing that Sheffield has decided to jump on the bandwagon.

This city is dead on a Sunday and I don't think people living in the centre will change that.

They have in in every case (and Leeds now) more money has been brought in, shops are now open longer on weekends. People living in the center want corner shops and they want pubs open. I don't think business owners in Sheffield are that stupid they would pass up money. Not sure why you think they would. Also traffic is reduced at peak times, we have more accommodation taking up less space. City center living is very positive.

I live in a city centre apartment and I LIKE the city being dead on a Sunday. Just moved up from London where Sunday is like Saturday is like Friday is like Thursday.

It's great to stroll around & chill on a Sunday. That's how things used to be in London, but now has got ridiculous. You can still have a vibrant economy without everything being open on a Sunday (people will just have to remember to shop on a Saturday).

Also part of the reason for Sunday the opening of everything in London at least is because people work so hard - 8am to 9pm is not uncommon (plus the 30min/1hour commute either side). Then to unwind, people go out & get wasted, and so are a bit hungover and disorganised on a Saturday, leaving only Sunday to shop for stuff.

So I agree with Alchresearch, city centre living does not equal Sunday opening of everything. When people are working so hard here that they NEED Sunday opening then perhaps yes. [End of Essay!]

There's always Meadowhall if they NEED Sunday opening E-Man... so problems solved all the way round eh!

I don't think Meadowhall is the answer to Sunday shopping.

I live quite near the Trafford Centre in Manchester but wouldn't be seen dead there. Granted, it is clean, safe, dry, warm and impressive, but I would much rather drive the same distance into Manchester city centre, drive right into the heart of the city, park up for free on any of it's streets and casually drift around the town looking at shops, sitting outside a café or bar with a beer and listening to some rather excellent buskers.

Sheffield city centre needs to reclaim what Meadowhall has taken away from it and they must be prepared to open on a sunday to encourage visitors and tourists from other towns. Perhaps the time isn't right yet because of the mess the city is in.

I don't think meadowhall is the answer to anything other than the questions

"where can I go and torment myself in a consumer hell of identikit shops and worship at the altar of mammon?"

or

"what sucked the commercial life out of the City Centre?"

alchresearch exactly. We have to look to the US for town planning advice. They may have loads of problems, but what they have is a young country that's has been planned right. They made mistakes, malls shut down local shops. Where ever you go in the states, small suburban towns are just full of empty shops.

When i say weekend shopping i don't just mean shopping, i also mean cafes and bars. It will change in Sheffield whether you like it or not. And to the person who said it works in London because people there live busier lives! Well some people in Sheffield live busy lives as well!
If there is a demand, businesses would be very silly to supply. Somebody will and it's what Sheffield needs. City living is the future and it benefits people who don't want to live in the city as well. Less pollution, traffic, more money, lower house prices out side cities, better city center schools the list goes on and on. And it's all been shown in America and the other big cities in the UK. Embrace it, don't knock it.

My pub is going to be demolished by the owner in the near future so he can build more of these flats!

They will be the city slums of the future.

I did have to laugh the other day, there are residents who have recently moved into the old Wards Brewery flats. One young, very young, woman came out and hung her washing all over the balcony and then I saw her eat something and throw her wrapper over the balcony onto the ground below. Niiiiice!

How long before we start to see broken bicycles, washing lines with tacky pegs and old bin liners full of junk stuffed onto these balconies?

All respect but these place rent at £550 a month minimum, thats for a shoe box. I am pretty sure people who can afford those flats are not the same people who live at the other side of the pub. You also have to pay ground fees as well. Again in other cities they just kept going up and up in price.

What do you base that comment on, it doesn't seem to make much sence.

Originally posted by "back2basics"

And to the person who said it works in London because people there live busier lives! Well some people in Sheffield live busy lives as well!

I actually said that Sunday opening has come about in London partly because people work and socialise very long hours. When I returned back to London (after 10 years away) in 1998 and saw people in their work clothes getting off the tube at suburban stops at 11pm at night, I thought - they must have been out drinking (many of them were coming home from the office). A few months later, I was also one of those people. And I kid you not.

As regards City Living, as I said, I live in one of the new flats so I'm in favour. I also think we should look to European cities and not U.S. ones for our inspiration. Barcelona - now there's a model for a great city which has undergone recent renovation!

One final point. Funny how the centre of London doesn't have loads of new residential developments springing up. The celebrated central developments have tended to be public developments (Tate Modern, London Eye, Blade Of Light, renovated Hungerford Bridge). These bring international interest, visitors and an enhanced rep. I think the Winter Gardens etc. are the sort of city centre developments that Sheffield should be creating more of.

The flats haven't been built with particularly high quality components. The walls are paper thin (this comes from a builder who drinks in the pub). The people who have bought them have probably bought them as a type of status symbol as that's how the flats have been marketed. In a few years the flats will start to look worn and repairs will be needed.

I've also heard that more upwardly mobile parents are buying the flats for their student offspring for the duration of their studying and then selling them on again.

I reckon that in about ten years, the nice shiny new flats will end up being worn out looking buildings. They were thrown up to make a profit for the developers, but I think they only have a short life span as luxury flats. Sure, they'll hold their value for a while....

If people in them have already started to hang out their washing over the balcony barrier and treat their gardens as rubbish tips then the future ain't too bright.

I think the Wards Brewery site looks like offices on an industrial estate. With the noise of the dual carriageway and the fumes - it's hardly worth the money.

Originally posted by "Classic Rock"

The flats haven't been built with particularly high quality components. The walls are paper thin (this comes from a builder who drinks in the pub). The people who have bought them have probably bought them as a type of status symbol as that's how the flats have been marketed. In a few years the flats will start to look worn and repairs will be needed.

I've also heard that more upwardly mobile parents are buying the flats for their student offspring for the duration of their studying and then selling them on again.

I reckon that in about ten years, the nice shiny new flats will end up being worn out looking buildings. They were thrown up to make a profit for the developers, but I think they only have a short life span as luxury flats. Sure, they'll hold their value for a while....

If people in them have already started to hang out their washing over the balcony barrier and treat their gardens as rubbish tips then the future ain't too bright.

I think the Wards Brewery site looks like offices on an industrial estate. With the noise of the dual carriageway and the fumes - it's hardly worth the money.

I agree with pretty much all of that, though I hope your predictions are wrong.
People have complained that city living in Sheffield won't work because it is not a 24 hour city, but my hope is that increased city living will increase demand for decent pubs, cafés, shops in the centre that are open for longer.

I have three words to say about modern city centre apartments:

HYDE PARK FLATS

:D

Can't afford one myself!!!

Hyde Park flats aren't too bad. I know someone who rents one. They are housing association so are well maintained, they've all had new kitchens installed in the last few months. The corridors outside the flats are carpeted. The gardens are well maintained. The security is very good within the flats and theres always a friendly sec. guard on reception.

The only poor thing is that the car park can be a bit dodgy where from time to time cars are broken into but I'd happily have one - reasonable rent (about £67 per week).

Hey, i'm doing a dissertation on the new city apartments in Sheffield, whether they'll catch on and whether Sheffield could grow to rival London. If any of you fancy giving me your opnions on that, it would be wicked, my e-mail address is lo94starry@yahoo.com. Cheers

Well I've read all that and I'm completely depressed now.

I have bought a top floor apartment at the new West One development, move in at Christmas. I can't wait - no more gardening, stroll home p*ssed no taxi etc. etc. etc.
As for slums of the future that doesn't seem to be the case with every other city does it? Why would Sheffield be different?

I think the demand for these new developments answers all the questions.

Although I wouldnt want one myself...I've had enough of living in city centres and living in flats I think the idea that theyre going to become slums is well wide of the mark. Other cities have had them for years and in Londons case decades and you dont see many (any?) private developments turn into slums. Even if they become no longer "trendy" theyll still be enough people who'll jump at the chance to buy/rent what will be still nice developments for the landlords to be able to pick and choose their tenants and also charge far higher rents than the majority of people will be able to afford

I think it's comparing apples and oranges to compare the council built disasters of the 70's and 80's to the new flats.

I see what your saying. They still suffer from the same problems. Sound transfer between these flats can be bad. That can cause all sorts of social problems. In the apartment i live in there are a number of people who take the **** in general i can see this causing problems.

But the high rise flats of the 70's went bad for a whole different set of problems. Drug dealers quickly realised that they could not check the drains for things 'flushed' as they are communal. If you are on the top floor you get lot's of notice that the police are on their way.

Some of the apartments are pretty badly designed, but they will improve as mistakes are made.

They are not for everybody, but for young people (who are the people buying them) they are great IMHO.

i spent a fair bit of time in my friends apartment in "leadmill court" and oh my god! lol they apartments are well exactly as many other people have said boxes! the walls are hollow and the darn place is god damn noisy! definatyl not worth the rent!

well i am a student living in a city centre apartment with my boyfriend and we pay slightly less rent for our place than our mates who share a horrible student house. Yeah fine the walls are a bit thin and you get woken up early with street noise but i wouldnt not live here for those silly reasons, its easy everythings on the doorstep - no paying for taxis after a night out

if you ask me sheffield is just starting to become a bit more hip and cosmopolitan. i think its what sheffield needs to keep up with cities like leeds and manchester.

Thats fine as long as you want everything on your doorstep, and all that comes with it, e.g. street crime, drugs, litter, noise pollution, vandalism, etc etc.

Err you get all of the above in Broomhill, Crookes and just about every other densley populated area of Sheffield.

Originally posted by geoffbowen
Err you get all of the above in Broomhill, Crookes and just about every other densley populated area of Sheffield.

True but to a lesser degree. There are no big nightclubs in Broomhill or Crookes for example. Personally I prefer the quiet suburbs to the city centre or the student zones. Thats just me though.

Yeah, I can understand the benefits of suburbs. But talking from experience I know how bad it can be living in Broomhill and Crookes. Students (and others) on the way home would shout, vandalize, drop litter and everything else they do in the centre. In the city centre the streets are cleaned every morning, whereas this didn't seem to be the case in the aforementioned areas.

City living can be very successful for any city, but as t020 is trying to point out, the police/council need to try and create a nicer environment. More anti-sociable behaviour laws and the reintroduction of high profile policing at night(!!) would be a good start. The majority of police seem (although I'm sure they don't ;)) to work 9 to 5! Where are the night time police in Sheffield?

(rant over ;) )

I rent a place in Leadmill Court Monday to Friday and go back home to London on the weekends. It's fantastically convenient for me - hardly any travel time to work, close to the station, close to restaurants to meet with other colleagues staying in hotels.

But I agree with a lot of the comments made so far, particularly about the build quality of the flats. They're not luxury in my view, not by a long shot. And there's an incredible amount of noise near Leadmill Court, which could easily be prevented with a bit of policing when the clubs turn out at 2am.

well i feel safer walking in to my apartment which has 24hr security than i would walking down a quite dark street up in crookes or broomhil - i havent had any problems in the city centre but have heard so many stories about people being threatened with knives for money up in brooomhill, and people being followed home at night - all unpleaseant to deal with if you are alone walking home down a side street at night -

where as in the city i see police all the time walking in the street below my place - last night right up untill 2am.

I think they are a great idea. Those for whom saving a taxi fare home from a nightclub were probably those who previously arrived in quite suburbs at 3am with much noisy slamming of taxi doors, doing what they mistakenly believe to be singing, throwing up, public urination, chucking their Lager cans into gardens, and having a full volume "conversation" with their mates.

They are probably also the ones who play crap music at full volume on otherwise quiet summer Sunday afternoons and think anyone who objects to the noise of their all night parties is being unreasonable.

I think it's a great idea to ghettoise them. They need to live in rabbit hutches, less space to keep clean. They will enjoy plasterboard walls so they can share their music with the neighbours more easily.
They have money to spend not invest. These flats are sold on glossy presentation, the core elements are missing, you get no land for your money, maybe a tiny communal garden, maybe a parking space but no room for visitors cars, price per square foot is very high, you are committed to ever increasing maintenance charges, I expect the rateable values are relatively high, build standard is poor.
I was horrified by building standards of new build £500K "executive home" I looked at in Whirlow a couple of years ago - but at least it had solid brick walls and a 30 ft gap separating you from the neighbours. Did you know that they sometimes use under-size furniture in show homes - the tiny 4th bedroom is made to look larger because the bed is only 5 ft long.

Is "city living" a corruption of "city loving" because the err... "bedtime noises" are clearly audible to your neighbour. I once lived in a flat above a creepy old guy who used to occasionally pay a woman to come and punish him ... how did I know that was what was happening?

City Living is a fashion, a craze, people making the decision to buy because lots of others have done and say it's good. You could draw a parallel with the stock market of 4 or 5 years ago, everyone knew that the fundamentals of the companies; yield, p/e ratios, balance sheets, were screaming "over-valued" but they piled money in none the less because prices seemed to just keep climbing. If you follow the herd you risk following it over a cliff.

And what happens if you have kids? How many schools are there in the city centre? Are you going to stick a 6 year old on the bus to a suburban school? Are you going to take them yourself? The answer is probably that either you have no expectation of kids (old, gay, celibate or infertile) or that you plan to move.

I'm told that a major contribution to the improvement of Hyde Park flats has been good care of the public areas, improved security, friendly caretakers who give a damn. I imagine there is also the power of the sanction of evicting anti-social tenants. How many of those factors apply to the city living flats. How easy is it to evict someone from the flat they've purchased?

Incidentally, interesting how changing the name from "flats" to "apartments" changes the buyer's perception and willingness to part with a lot of money. Also the phrase "city living" seems made up and meaningless "marketing speak" - and indeed I think you will find those selling these properties regard themseleves as "marketing" rather than "selling" and will tell you they are "marketing city living homes" rather than "selling flats" (and buy them a few drinks they may even own up to earning great commissions from "flogging overpriced noisy shoe-boxes to mugs").

We are sitting on a property price bubble, the government is going to burst that with a rates revaluation and by imposing CGT on homes (and interest rates will eventually start going up - maybe not for a few years). When it bursts I expect noisy, tired looking City Living apartments will start to look very poor value.

But I might be wrong.

City Living is a fashion, a craze, people making the decision to buy because lots of others have done and say it's good.
People will always live "in a city's centre" whether it's in so called luxury flats or more not. You are very unlikely to have a city centre which has zero accommodation. Sheffield was peculiar in the fact it didn't offer much city centre accomodation - the fact we now have them isn't based on a fashion, but more on the fact that Sheffield is evolving.

I have a friend who lives in the centre of London in a block of "luxury" flats built in Victorian times - I guess the "fashion cycle" must be very long. City centre living is a way of life, not a fashion.

And what happens if you have kids? How many schools are there in the city centre? [...] The answer is probably that either you have no expectation of kids (old, gay, celibate or infertile) or that you plan to move.
Of course people are planning to move! City centre living isn't sold on the idea it's a good place to raise a family! What a strange criticism to choose, when no-one else even considered it!

In reply to Vicor Meldrew

1. These apartments are not built as a family home. People who live here are singles or couples who work/study/go out/ eat etc in the city - so why live in teh suburbs when you spend most of your time in the city - its convienient to live in the centre of the action

2. i Certainly dont here as you say "bedroom noises" in my apartment

3. Its not a CRAZE - people have been living in the city centre for ages its just that in sheffield the option was to live about a shop or bar - now there are purpose built complexes to live in.

4. So what if people think that living in these places because they think its a status symbol - people live in nce expensive suburbs because its a status symbol to say you live in the most expensive/best suburb - its the same as that

5. you can evict in these places to actually if you have a reasonable ground to complain - its in the contract

6. i dont think its fair to say we should be Ghettoised' with less space to keep clean - does that mean people who live in coucil flats have been ghettoised because they cant afford to buy a house?? both council flats and private flats provide a large number of people accomodation. so why say that new apartments are bad when the coucil have provided them for years

7. Not everyone who lives here is as you say old, gay, celibate or infertile, we're just young people who enjoy this life style thank - you

8. In our apartment the service charge includes services such as window cleaning, upkeep of garden/communial areas/ consierge service, 24 hour security - so its not a complate waste of money

When I said I prefer suburbs to city centre living, Crookes and Broomhill aren't what I had in mind. The student zones are nearly as bad as the city centre areas for noise and litter, etc. I prefer the suburbs on the outskirts by far, such as Fulwood, Ecclesall, Dore, Totley, Millhouses, Beauchief, Whirlow, etc.

surprise surprise

Originally posted by kittykat surprise surprise City Centre, Fulwood, Ecclesall, Dore, Totley, Millhouses, Beauchief, Whirlow... No give me Rotherham every time ;)

Originally posted by geoffbowen
People will always live "in a city's centre" whether it's in so called luxury flats or more not. You are very unlikely to have a city centre which has zero accommodation. Sheffield was peculiar in the fact it didn't offer much city centre accomodation - the fact we now have them isn't based on a fashion, but more on the fact that Sheffield is evolving.

I have a friend who lives in the centre of London in a block of "luxury" flats built in Victorian times - I guess the "fashion cycle" must be very long. City centre living is a way of life, not a fashion.

Of course people are planning to move! City centre living isn't sold on the idea it's a good place to raise a family! What a strange criticism to choose, when no-one else even considered it!
Yes people have always lived in cities but the "City Living" phenomenon is something different. It is a marketing "lifestyle" package and it just stinks of hype to me. For some people, living in the city centre is a good decision but just as with living in any other area they need to be making long term judgements about the future value of their investment. I think the "City Living" packages are small, low grade units with an intrinsic value substantially less than the sale price which is inflated by superficial impressions of "luxury".

Yes there are good substantial Victorian blocks of flats in London - but it's hardly realistic to compare London with Sheffield - for example you could find that kind of flat in Maida Vale or round the corner from Harrods - still half an hour or more commute to a workplace in Docklands. Very little if you go to what most of us would regard as the centre - i.e. "the square mile" or Trafalgar Square. And you will find schools in inner London (Tony has found the London Oratory I believe).

And we aren't talking about substantial Victorian blocks in Sheffield we are talking about plasterboard fashion interiors behind a recovered industrial frontage or a recent system-built block.

What a strange criticism to choose, when no-one else even considered it!What a strange response. Do you mean that once a thread has started you don't expect anyone to raise any new considerations? - yes great let's just all respond to everything with "me too" or "I disagree" (Costessy already seems to have adopted that stance) let's not waste time with facts or arguements lets all just affirm our prejudices.
Of course those flogging these flats are going to play-down a disadvantage, does that mean we should join the conspiracy? Look for a house in Ecclesall and see if they fail to mention school catchment - even if you're an impotent gay 70 year old they want you to know it adds to the value of the house.

We might not find out whether these flats will hold their value for 5, 10, 15 years and in the meantime everyone will just have to make their own judgement. I'm in no doubt about mine, surely a forum like this is intended to share different opinions. I don't expect anyone to blindly agree with any individual view but to take on board all the arguements and make their own decisions.

Of course I expect anyone who has made the decision to live there to be defensive of it. When someone suggests they've been conned they're hardly going to agree, of course they will down-play the disadvantages and make the most of the advantages, they don't want to see their investment go west. I'm sure battery chickens are grateful for the fact that they don't have to run around the farmyard scavenging for food and water, avoiding the tractor and the fox, they are much better off with food and drink delivered inches from their beaks in a nice secure cage to protect them from the outside world.

I'm all in favour of being optimistic and making the best of what you've got and I feel genuinely sorry for those who have elected for high-price "City Living" flats if my analysis is right, I hope for their sakes I am wrong.

V Meldrew.

I have bought an apartment in West One because I think it is a good investment. Other people might have other ideas. Supporting my view of a city centre apartment as a good investment is the track record of valuations in other cities Leeds, Glasgow, London etc. etc. I am not alone in this view as all the major Building Societies are also investing heavily in city centre apartments. I see no reason at all why Sheffield should be different to other cities.
Whether you want to live in the city is a personal decision but I have found some of the negative comments on this thread laughable.
I remember back in 1978 I went for a mortgage of £24K for a five bedroomed detached on Fulwood Road and people told me I was silly to pay so much for a house and that the overpriced housing market was due to crash, it appears that some of the same housing experts exist today.

elected for high-price "City Living" flats if my analysis is right, I hope for their sakes I am wrong.

just a note - i share one with my boyfriend and we pay less per week than friends of ours sharing a house on Ecclesall road - so they are not that expensive really! so on that note why pay more to live in a shared house when we have our own space for cheaper!:lol:

When I said I prefer suburbs to city centre living, Crookes and Broomhill aren't what I had in mind. The student zones are nearly as bad as the city centre areas for noise and litter, etc. I prefer the suburbs on the outskirts by far, such as Fulwood, Ecclesall, Dore, Totley, Millhouses, Beauchief, Whirlow, etc.

you might to live in these areas - but young people want to be around young people - not living in an family area where people are "keeping up with the jones's" and where the people discuss school runs, coffee mornings, latest development in baby formulas and the latest child care centre openings!

But when i get to the age of marriage and kids then yeah i would move out to the suburbs but at the moment its not my idea of the perfect location to live - city centre suits my needs at the moment - i'm not disagreeing that its a bad life style but not the one to choose at this stage in life!!!

Originally posted by victor_meldrew
I'm all in favour of being optimistic and making the best of what you've got and I feel genuinely sorry for those who have elected for high-price "City Living" flats if my analysis is right, I hope for their sakes I am wrong.I read in today's paper of the pressure on the housing market from the number of immigrants/asylum seekers so maybe these flats will hold their value. (On the other hand the paper was also speculating on when the house price decreases in the South will reach the North). Pity the poor student emerging into the job market with a worthless degree, £20K student debts and house prices so high they need earn so much they'll be in the 40% tax band before they can afford a mortgage on any kind of property.

Apparently the government are saying their is a shortfall by 4million homes for first time buyers. So I expect that the housing boom will continue for a while yet!

Originally posted by robh
I read in today's paper of the pressure on the housing market from the number of immigrants/asylum seekers so maybe these flats will hold their value. (On the other hand the paper was also speculating on when the house price decreases in the South will reach the North). Pity the poor student emerging into the job market with a worthless degree, £20K student debts and house prices so high they need earn so much they'll be in the 40% tax band before they can afford a mortgage on any kind of property.

The number of asylum seekers makes sod-all differerence to the housing market. The number in sheffield is very small as a percentage of the popilation, so small that it wouldn't make a jot of difference. Asylum seekers are housed mainly in poorer areas which wouldn't force the entire market upward.
The house prices in the South are motivated by different factors than the north. Although the purchase market down south has weakened (not in all areas though) the rental market is extremely strong. Until such time as people stop living in houses or the number of houses on the market exceeds the number of buyers the housing market will remain a good long term investment.
As for students bleating about house prices - they are actually cheaper now then they ever have been. If you take the cost of a house 30 years ago and divide it by the average annual wage at that time and then do the same now you will find that houses are much more affordable now.
Example:
1970 - Terraced House £8000 weekly wage £10.00 = 800 weeks
2003 - Terraced House £80000 weekly wage £300 = 266 weeks
If you consider the cost and ease of borrowing money now, any student that can't figure out how to buy a house is too bl++dy thick to be educated in the first place.

Well thats my Kent Brockman two cents worth.

Originally posted by robh
City Centre, Fulwood, Ecclesall, Dore, Totley, Millhouses, Beauchief, Whirlow... No give me Rotherham every time ;)

Id rather be in rotherham and be able to afford more stuff than live in a stuck up suburb, houses in which you could probably find exact replicas of in rotherham.. just cos people THINK its prestigious.

Id only live in the stuck up areas of sheffield if i found a nice, reasonably priced house there, similarly id live in rotherham if i found a nice, reasonably priced house there.

Snobbery gets people nowhere in my book - except on my nerves

Originally posted by Whelk
If you take the cost of a house 30 years ago and divide it by the average annual wage at that time and then do the same now you will find that houses are much more affordable now.
Example:
1970 - Terraced House £8000 weekly wage £10.00 = 800 weeks
2003 - Terraced House £80000 weekly wage £300 = 266 weeks
Not too sure about that calculation, where do those figures come from?.

I was earning £10 a week mid 60's as a 15 year old, summer holiday job as a hospital porter. £10 was not a typical wage but a seriously crap wage well before 1970.

I bought my first house in Sheffield in 1978. I was earning about £4k and bought a Hunter's Bar terrace for about £11K with savings plus a 2.5 times gross salary mortgage. Similar houses in the same street are fetching over £110K currently so I'd need to be on about £40K whereas I think the current rate for the kind of job I was doing (trainee programmer) is under £20K.
So I would say that houses are half as affordable now compared with 25 years ago. As a single guy, no chance, you need to be part of a couple both on £20K.

My experience alone may be an unreliable guide so I've done a bit of internet searching. Property People magazine for Jan 2003 says "The average house price now costs 4.64 times average earnings of £26,237. In 1983, it was just 3.7 times the then average salary of £9,000."

But in any case if house price inflation figures are running in double figures and yet inflation and pay increases are running around 3% it doesn't take a genius to work out that the gap between income and average house price must be increasing.

Originally posted by kittykat
Id rather be in rotherham and be able to afford more stuff than live in a stuck up suburb, houses in which you could probably find exact replicas of in rotherham.. just cos people THINK its prestigious.

Id only live in the stuck up areas of sheffield if i found a nice, reasonably priced house there, similarly id live in rotherham if i found a nice, reasonably priced house there.

Snobbery gets people nowhere in my book - except on my nerves
So because an individual lives in one of these suburbs, it makes you a snob does it? Grow up KittyKat, I once thought you had reasonable things to say on this board, my perception was obviously incorrect.

My better half is from Whirlow (one of these so called snob areas), and there isn't one bit of snobbery in her. Nor is there, in anyone I have met from the said area. Whirlow happens to be one of the most affluent areas of England outside London, but just because it is sort after, nice surroundings and low crime doesn't mean the people that live and want to move their are snobs.

It does however show YOU to be small minded.

And before you ask, i'm a born n bred Council Estate lad (Gleadless Valley), so NO, I'm not a snob either.

Pity the poor student emerging into the job market with a worthless degree, £20K student debts and house prices so high they need earn so much they'll be in the 40% tax band before they can afford a mortgage on any kind of property.

Excuse me but having a degree is not a worthless thing at all

both my sister and her fiance both left uni last year and went straight in to starting salaries of £24k and £23k i dont think people without a degree can walk in to their first job earning that do you??

also when you leave uni with the debts accumulated you only have to pay it back when you earn over a certain amount per week and if by the time you reach 60 you havent paid if off the debt gets cancelled

I know it's off topic, but it depends on the degree and the job you require. It's much harder to find well paid IT jobs now than it was several years ago.

As for the "snobbery" comments, I think it's fair to say that some people will buy one of the new flats / live in the "snob areas" just because they think it's fashionable... it's not fair to say that everyone who lives there is a snob though! (I think kittykat just based the comment on stereotypes, that's all!) :lol:

Originally posted by cheaky_monkey
Excuse me but having a degree is not a worthless thing at all

both my sister and her fiance both left uni last year and went straight in to starting salaries of £24k and £23k i dont think people without a degree can walk in to their first job earning that do you??

also when you leave uni with the debts accumulated you only have to pay it back when you earn over a certain amount per week and if by the time you reach 60 you havent paid if off the debt gets cancelled Well they didn't teach you much about reading what people have written carefully did they?
Pity the poor student emerging into the job market with a worthless degree, £20K student debts...
*Does that say ALL degrees are worthless? No, it says it's tough if you do have a worthless one.
*Just because there is a mechanism for repaying student loans for those fortunate enough to get a decent job (and a cop-out for those who NEVER earn over £10K) doesn't diminish the fact that the poor buggers emerge with a big debt.

*£24K salary? OK good. Does that mean a graduate can expect to earn that? No. Until recently I was working with a bright, capable, personable graduate who managed to increase her salary from £11k to £14k over the 3 years we were in the same office. ...for someone on average graduate earnings of £13,500, the [monthly student loan] repayment will be £26.25. The Guardian
Bear in mind that's average, so for every one earning more there's one getting less.
So the average graduate wanting to buy will be looking for housing in the region of £40K (assuming they can find the first 10% and assuming they are sensible enough to not go for a mortgage much higher than 2.5 times gross salary).

Originally posted by DaBouncer
So because an individual lives in one of these suburbs, it makes you a snob does it? Grow up KittyKat, I once thought you had reasonable things to say on this board, my perception was obviously incorrect.
To be fair KK was reacting to my posting which was intended as a gentle wind-up. Sorry KK if it touched a nerve.
My better half is from Whirlow (one of these so called snob areas), and there isn't one bit of snobbery in her.
Your better half comes from Whirlow ;)

Originally posted by robh
To be fair KK was reacting to my posting which was intended as a gentle wind-up. Sorry KK if it touched a nerve.
She may have reacted about the Rotherham issue, but it still doesn't excuse the fact that she is classing anyone wanting to live in these areas as snobs. Or at least that is the generalisation she was intending to come across.

Your better half comes from Whirlow ;)
Yep, my fiancee is my better half... or the better half of the two of us. Sorts out the bills, money matters, food shopping as I'm pants at that stuff! So out of the two of us, she is the better one.

Originally posted by DaBouncer
Yep, my fiancee is my better half... or the better half of the two of us. Sorts out the bills, money matters, food shopping as I'm pants at that stuff! So out of the two of us, she is the better one.
I think the point robh was making was that you refer to her as your better half because she's from Whirlow :lol: ... ?

(Am I right?) :?

Originally posted by Tony Ruscoe I think the point robh was making was that you refer to her as your better half because she's from Whirlow :lol: ... ?

(Am I right?) :?Yes, I'm afraid it was another of my rather too oblique attempts at humour!

Anyway she sounds like a star - I wonder if she's got a sister? (who likes much older men).

I did get the joke, but side stepped it in an attempt to avoid the whole better half and from WHirlow debate.

She IS a star, I'm a lucky guy. She does have an older sister... who is married to a younger man from Brighton. So sorry Robh.. you're outta luck! And you aint havin mine RIGHT!

I wouldn't want to live in the centre of the city, with all the fumes, noise, and hordes of people passing all the time, give me some peace and quiet, also clean air.

Then there is the question of cost, I don't think the new flats in the city are worth all the money they are charging for them.

Originally posted by DaBouncer She IS a star, I'm a lucky guy. She does have an older sister... who is married to a younger man from Brighton. So sorry Robh.. you're outta luck! And you aint havin mine RIGHT! Ah well, back to chasing sheep then.

Since when were graduate salaries an average of £13.5k? The last I heard they were just reaching the £20k mark. Also, since when was the average salary in the UK £26k?

Originally posted by t020
Since when were graduate salaries an average of £13.5k? The last I heard they were just reaching the £20k mark. Also, since when was the average salary in the UK £26k?

OK best I can do on average incomes is government stats for April 2000 £21749 averaged across male and female manual and non-manual http://www.statistics.gov.uk/nsbase/downloads/theme_labour/NES00UK_1.pdf see page 4
The £26k figure looks high and is probably a subset e.g. males only or non-manual only.

It's hard to find an equally reliable source for a figure for the graduates. The £13.5K came from the Guardian http://education.guardian.co.uk/students/story/0,9860,802601,00.html (bear in mind these are starting salaries) or here they attribute a similar figure from NatWest http://education.guardian.co.uk/students/story/0,9860,709625,00.html
Another (2001) estimate is "According to the Barclays Graduate Survey published in May graduates earn on average £15,000, higher than the national average salary of £13,700 and almost half find permanent employment in their preferred career six months after their finals."
You might prefer the £18.5k this one offers but it is a promotional leaflet for Hull university so they may be inclined to optimism www.dfes.gov.uk/studentsupport/uploads/ HULL-Money-matters-leaflet.pdf
Or even back to the Guardian with £20K http://education.guardian.co.uk/students/story/0,9860,885804,00.html
These contradictory figures are all very confusing, that's because different assumptions are being made but usually not made explicit.
*Is a figure "average graduate salary" or "Average graduate STARTING salary"
*What kind of average, we tend to assume the mean but one or two are clearly median.
*Do the figures omit some graduates - e.g. those who don't find work or find "temporary" work which is unrelated to their degree.
*Do the figures reflect the year one income regardless of the fact that year one may include some months of zero or low income while jobseeking
*It looks as if some figures are extracted by analysing salaries offered by FTSE 100 companies to their graduate intake.
*The words income and salary are used carelessly, they are different, income can be salary plus income from other sources - like gifts from rich daddy or investment income from an inheritance.
*I think everyone is reporting gross income but you can't be sure, the figures from banks for example could be based on how much gets paid into the graduates accounts.
You should also bear in mind that salaries in and around London could be 20-30% higher making it harder to equal the national average if you're in Sheffield.

I've not only just got my first graduate job, but I've also just moved into one of those 'new' luxury places! It's not a large complex though - only has 7 flats!

My salary is 17k plus bonuses, and I moved to sheffield because I couldn't get over 14k in Derbyshire (surprise). I graduated from Derby uni with a 2.2 - some of my friends who got firsts are on 22-25k annually.

Hope this helps!!

"does anyone regard the death of that weapons expert as highly suspicious? Jonh le Carre eat your heart out!"

Originally posted by DaBouncer

She may have reacted about the Rotherham issue, but it still doesn't excuse the fact that she is classing anyone wanting to live in these areas as snobs. Or at least that is the generalisation she was intending to come across.


Yep, my fiancee is my better half... or the better half of the two of us. Sorts out the bills, money matters, food shopping as I'm pants at that stuff! So out of the two of us, she is the better one. [/B]

I didnt say everyone were snobs from those areas, if i did could you please paste from my post the phrase 'everyone from posh areas of sheffield are snobs' i just meant peoples attitudes regarding these are a bit stuck up - especially people who even bother to start off threads say one area is brilliant cos lots of rich people live there- and id gladly live there if i could find a nice house (as far as ive seen most houses in these areas are very nice) that was cheap enough for a lowly radiographer to afford (but as if!) but then again id gladly live in rotherham if i found an equally likeable house. I have no snobbery towards these areas and i dont hold them in high esteem compared to other areas. Theres no need to offend me I mean no harm.
I have bad moods just like everyone else - im only human and some of my posts are just off the cuff bad mooded things and other i will think over more.

:cry:

Originally posted by kittykat
Id rather be in rotherham and be able to afford more stuff than live in a stuck up suburb, houses in which you could probably find exact replicas of in rotherham.. just cos people THINK its prestigious.
This comment alone, is implying that the areas mentioned by Robh are stuck up!!! why are they stuck up? Well it's hardly the houses you are refering to now is it? It's the poeple living in the area which makes it stuck up

Id only live in the stuck up areas of sheffield if i found a nice, reasonably priced house there, similarly id live in rotherham if i found a nice, reasonably priced house there.

Snobbery gets people nowhere in my book - except on my nerves
Again making a sweeping statement that the people of the said areas are stuck up! I'll admit some are... but equally (as you have proved) people who don't live in these areas offer a reverse of this stuck up attitude that you 'say' these people give off.

ok ok you know best. I think whatever you say i think

It must be very nice in the land of the perfect that 90% of this forums users think they belong to.

Originally posted by kittykat
ok ok you know best. I think whatever you say i think
I just call it how I see it.... and retiring from the forum because of a conflict of opinion... well need I say more.

Originally posted by DaBouncer
I just call it how I see it.... and retiring from the forum because of a conflict of opinion... well need I say more.

No you needn't, for I think you have said MORE than enough already.

This thread has become a little silly. There is no right or wrong about if they are worth their money, if they are good, bad or boxes. It's PERSONAL PREFERENCE. We all have a set of wants need and priorities. If you have a family these places aren't for you. I don't think anybody is saying there are huge apartments. Can i just remind people that house prices are not set on size or noise outside, they are set by DEMAND. The prices will settle down at some stage (in fact it seems that the price has already peaked and they are stabilizing). People want them, and just because you don't, doesn't make them invalid. If nobody wanted them, they would be selling for £30K.

Also there is a whole lot of speculation in this thread, as has been said in Manchester, Leeds, London and Birmingham (and most big cities in the US), city living has been beneficial to everybody who uses the services in the city center. It's good for MANY reasons, it's kind to the environment, aids regeneration, cleanliness, services and it's a far better use of space in an already crowded country. If we cannot build out, we should build UP in this country. It is our only option (short of taxing people the more kids they have). Taking all this in to account, if we misguided idiots would like to rent or buy these apartments let us, it's a good thing. I have seen most of the apartments available and non of them are perfect. They have many problems in the design, many short falls and many things they can do better. It's a new industry over here, they will learn and the apartments will improve over time, the bad ones becoming the cheaper city living places. They are small, but that suits my lifestyle perfectly. They are not luxury for sure, but they are neat tidy and have most things i need for now. In all flats you will have a level of sound transference, in the places we live it's minimal, but when i started renting the apartment i expected it, i have lived in these places before. I have not had one single problem with any one of my neighbors or noise. If the houses are overpriced also thank us, because that just means we are paying a disproportionate amount of council tax.

Since i have lived there, the streets are now much cleaner. As somebody said they are (now) cleaned every morning. It's loud and when the students are around there are bottles all over and smashed glass. That will improve, nobody has been there to complain before now. I wouldn't but one of these places now, but i would have when they were build. Plenty of people will have made 30K on them in a few months and there are even more people renting them out from $500+ a month, of course that silly of them. These people who are renting are paying all this money to be unhappy living there and they are too stupid to get out, but that's how life is ;) And some people fear change and have a 'No! You don't want to do it like that! You want to do it like this.' mentality. ;)

So i will leave all you suburbanites to drive home from the pub and restaurant drunk, waiting for taxis to turn up. I will be walking home happy in the knowledge i am doing my bit for Sheffield's urban regeneration (by god it needed it). I will leave you with all your problems; local shops not being able to compete with supermarkets, high crime, poor services, public transport, kids (instead of students) hanging round shops because they are bored and your culturless estates. Because i have everything i need on my doorstep and i feel in touch with what is happening in the City. But EACH TO THEIR OWN :)

Originally posted by t020
No you needn't, for I think you have said MORE than enough already.
t020, small things certainly do please small minds now don't they!

Originally posted by back2basics

I will leave you with all your problems; local shops not being able to compete with supermarkets, high crime, poor services, public transport, kids (instead of students) hanging round shops because they are bored and your culturless estates. Because i have everything i need on my doorstep and i feel in touch with what is happening in the City. But EACH TO THEIR OWN :)

1) I prefer supermarkets, though there are also a wide range of amenities at Bents Green and Banner Cross should I need them.

2) High crime? Can't say I've noticed that. Infact, most crime happens in the city centre areas that you are talking up.

3) Poor services? A bit vague don't you think? Please, elaborate..

4) Poor public transport? Who cares? Not me, I prefer my car.

5) Kids hanging round shops? Can't say I've noticed that.

6) Cultureless estates? Which would those be then? I don't live anywhere near any estate.

Yes back2basics, I am one of those "suburbanites" you talk about, and I have disputed every claim you make against them. So you stick with your glorified tower block flat, shoddily built with plaster board walls and no garden, in the middle of an ugly run down city centre, and I'll drive 3 - 4 miles up the road to green, leafy suburbia with trees, woods, parks, gardens, and well built, traditional style 1930s houses that will still be standing long after your tower blocks have been demolished!

I'm with B2B on this one. I have new "city living" pad and I didn't buy it because it's supposedly trendy.

I bought it because I like living in the city centre. I used to rent a flat on Devonshire Green, moved away because of a job and on my return decided to return to the city centre.

The flat (or should that be apartment:!:) was also cheaper than buying a house in an area that I would want to live. I'd love to have an old terraced house in S11, S7, but they are so expensive, take loads of money in maintenance/heating and more often than not would require upgrading in some way - eg heating wiring etc. As I now live on mny own, I'd rather not have the hassle.

The flat is small (but less cleaning!) brand new kitchen and bathroom and cheap bills.

City centre is convenient for your mates coming round, no cabs and I for one don't hear any noise from any neighbours.

I like it, so I'm sticking with it.

t020 grow up! I was just making a point that every way of life you choose has it's issues. Why do you think i would write hundreds of words saying 'each to their own' and then slag down a different way of life? The point is do try and tell other people why they are doing something, or how they should live. I know why i live in a flat/apartment, i know the benefits and i also know that when i want to settle down and have kids i will no longer live there, i will find myself i nice house.

Every way of life has it's own issues and problems. I happen to believe that this is the way of life for me, now at this stage of my life. But i believe that if the younger generations do move towards this form of living in Sheffield it will be very good for the people who live in the suburbs.

I think the West One development looks really cool, i'd love to live there. it's all about a lifestyle i guess, but the sort of young professionals developments like that attract will boost the local area. Any investment is going to do some good I think.

oh and on the graduate salary thing.. prospects says average salary is 18.5k.. this will obviously vary with location, job sector, job role, qualification, gender etc.

i'm hoping for a 2:1 when i graduate.. and expect to get a local gov. job for the first two years earning max. of 20k.. starting about 14k.

As the american mentioned earlier - there are many motivational reasons for wanting to live in the City Centre. If built properly, especially in keeping with its environs - i can't see why any development shouldn't be advantageous for the city of Sheffield. As i have been saying since the first day that i have arrived in Sheffield, although by size it can rival any other major british urban centre for quality of living. However, Sheffield lacks bulk, the factor that sets us apart from Leeds, Manchester and Liverpool.
The market is so cyclical - it is really hard to say where accommodation will stand in 5 to 10 years down the line. Following the trends of the housing market, i can only imagine that 'we' will revert to country living in the not-too-distant future.

I appreciate that not everyone has the luxury of choosing where to live - but if it is an option; i'd suggest Broomhill, Crookes, Brincliffe, Carterknowle etc. While house prices are levelling off now, at least you are in between country and city living. That way, you stand to benefit the most securely within a bouyant market.

I can only imagine that Sheffield intends to model itself on a smaller-sized Manchester for the future. If so, and you would like to see the style of city living appartments on offer there, it is worth checking out this website The Green Quarter, Manchester (http://www.padsofmanchester.com/greenquarter.htm)

Originally posted by chalicefc3
I can only imagine that Sheffield intends to model itself on a smaller-sized Manchester for the future. If so, and you would like to see the style of city living appartments on offer there, it is worth checking out this website The Green Quarter, Manchester (http://www.padsofmanchester.com/greenquarter.htm)

The area that "The Green Quarter" is in is a complete dump. However, that's not to say that these buildings won't regenerate the area and bring life into a dead part of the city. Surely that is what it's all about for us?

Originally posted by back2basics
Anyway this country constantly has problems with traffic and lack of houses. City centre living is the answer to both IMHO. We need to build up, not out. Living close to work and being able to walk to nightlife etc appeals to some people (like me), so give them small over priced apartments if they are willing to pay, because they are doing everybody else a favour.

The pros of city centre living appeal to me, nightclubs, near work and having all the public transport to anywhere you want to go but I find the box flats rather over priced. Is this what buying somewhere to live is going to be like in the future, far too expensive for people to buy. Back2basic is right we need to build up not out, but it’s the fact that they are using derelict buildings and brown belt land instead of building on precious green belt land, although I don’t agree with the price. I think the builders are greedy and using us for money making when people just need some where to live!

Originally posted by alchresearch
I don't think Meadowhall is the answer to Sunday shopping.

I live quite near the Trafford Centre in Manchester but wouldn't be seen dead there. Granted, it is clean, safe, dry, warm and impressive, but I would much rather drive the same distance into Manchester city centre, drive right into the heart of the city, park up for free on any of it's streets and casually drift around the town looking at shops, sitting outside a café or bar with a beer and listening to some rather excellent buskers.

Sheffield city centre needs to reclaim what Meadowhall has taken away from it and they must be prepared to open on a sunday to encourage visitors and tourists from other towns. Perhaps the time isn't right yet because of the mess the city is in.

I don’t agree with you alchreseach. At first yes meadowhall did take a lot of trade from city centre shopping but sheffield city centre attracts more people for shopping. Yes meadowhall maybe warm, safe, dry etc but it lacks charictor. Sheffield and meadowhall have different shops, ok all the high street shops are there but all the littler shops are totally different. There are more shops in the city centre and there are market stalls etc but for me its not a case of one place is better than the other they are both equally as good and have different things to attract people. You don’t have to park in meadowhall car parks yet you have to in the city (yes even on the streets). Sheffield city centre never lost anything by meadowhall opening, only gained!

Originally posted by t020
Thats fine as long as you want everything on your doorstep, and all that comes with it, e.g. street crime, drugs, litter, noise pollution, vandalism, etc etc.

t020, you get that everywhere, not just in the city centre even in ecclesall.

Originally posted by SaxonLeigh

t020, you get that everywhere, not just in the city centre even in ecclesall.


To a much lesser degree of course, yes. See the quoted crime figures in the Hunters Bar thread, clearly showing that the wards of Ecclesall, Dore and Hallam have much lower rates of crime than the Sheffield Average.

Of course this is true, but of course the crime rate in the city will lower as more people come to live in town.

There are plenty of apartment buildings around the city that are very nice, and contemporary with Park Hill / Hyde Park, etc. The difference is the people that live in them. The new schemes in the centre will be just as vibrant in 40 years as they are now. That's the upside of private ownership.

This new City living business makes me laugh sometimes. I mean think about it, would you pay like 100k or more to live down castle market?? I mean I can't stand passing through it on the bus let alone paying that amount of money to live next to it!!!
I heard more flats are for sale on kelham island, well... What can I say??
Is it just me or do you think this will all be just a phase?? Like the tower blocks in the 60's. I'd give anything to live the furthest away from town, for peace and quiet and a bit of a garden.. I guess they are aimed at the so called " young professionals" and has got its advantages, but half of the time they're situated in shocking places.. I can't see castle market being the fashionable area anytime soon..

Well you have almost answered your own question sat. As we speaka huge development of castle markets is bing planned and processed and should be complete within a few years.

And this is the thing. The devonshire quarter wasn't so great before student/proffesional accomodation was built. But it gets people in and the facilities (bars, shops etc.) come to where the business is.
The areas between Kelham island to west street and between west street and stmarys gate/furnival gate aren't too great now, but within a couple of years lots of apartnments will be built/completed and the again the facilities will follow.

IOf course thats the idea, you can read the thread about the underused ground floor units to see its not always a success at first.

This subject has been discussed to death.

My only real question with these City Living developments are where are all the young professionals coming from who can afford to live there????

Originally posted by evildrneil
My only real question with these City Living developments are where are all the young professionals coming from who can afford to live there????

You don't have to be earnning bucket loads to live in the city center, i should know! lol :)
Obviously it helps if your pulling in some serious denero but its not essential.

we mostly come from 'university'... a mythical place of carousing and fornication... apparently people think it's worth paying you an extra wage if you've been... ;)

I started this topic as a result of a thread I posted regarding a new development proposed for around St. Mary's Gate.
I am all for re-development and re-generation but am I the only person here that feels we are being flooded with these so called rip off luxury flats. Lets get one thing straight..they are not luxury. Laminate floor and mosaic tiling does not make luxury any more than B&Q bathrooms and kitchens.
Just what is the difference between the high rise tower blocks that heralded a revolution in housing during the 60's and the building of more high rise tower blocks nowadays...because that's all they are..just marketed extremely well. Good marketing has made us believe they are the dogs gonads. But in say 20 years time will we be looking at demolishing them as a result of diminishing demand and poor maintenance??
I would much prefer to see the same level of additional housing but for someone to take a gamble and develop more concept style living, trying to embrace new ecological technologies..ideas that could help us all in the future...buildings that are environmentally concious..taking into account the needs of everyone and not just your IT exec who just wants to look cool

it,s all about money there is no long term plan

Don't get me wrong. I understand to a point the need for the city living style apartments and if people want to pay that money then thats up to them but like I say how many do we need??.
Whether we like it or not the ass is going to fall out of the property market...these things go in cycles...boom,depression,boom,depression. The depression isn't that far away and people will no longer be able to afford the flats and to me they aren't a long term living solution anyway...surely you couldn't live in a flat like that for more than 2 years max before your needs change and you just grow out of it. I feel quite lucky to have had the choice and plumped for a 3 bedroom house. At the moment there is plenty of space for me an my partner but space to expand in the house should our circumstances change. So when house prices drop which they will do eventually then I can just stay where I am till it picks up..but what about the people with £150,000 mortgages for flats that are just too small for them??

I like to see the redevelopment of the city centre with well maintained new and old buildings sitting side by side. Our city centre is great on a night out with all the pubs, clubs restaurants etc. Access is easy with the tram, buses, trains, good roads, bike lanes.

It would be great to live within easy access of all the sporting facilites, cinemas, theatres but I would like to keep the city centre as a city centre where it is a commercial and transport hub.

People living in the area will soon be moaning about the traffic, noise, people etc. and want to close the very facilities that has made Sheffield great.

Industry cannot survive in urban environments.

i don't see anything wrong with 'luxury' housing, i'm sure it is desired by a lot of people, but i think what we need at the moment is affordable housing, and not just for families but for first time buyers, single people and younger home leavers, obviously the developers would prefer the luxury buildings because they make more money though!

City living is just that - 'living'

Its not having an actual 'life' which is considerably different.

I dont mind people who live in the city, but one thing is, most flats are not luxury just because the builder says so. Not gonna tell you they used £5.50/sqm cheap plastic 'wood floor effect' finishing are they!!

I live in a city centre apartment. I didn't buy it as a "luxury" - I bought it to live in. It cost no more than an average two / three bedroomed house. In fact it would probably cost more to buy back my old house at Crookes than I paid for this.

So what is your problem with me living here? It suits my lifestyle - the hours I work mean that I do not have time to maintain a garden. And it is only takes me ten minutes to get in to work in the morning.

As these apartments are build on "brown field" sites it means that the current demand for housing means less demands to encroach on the green belt.

And the increase of people living in the city centre means increased life and vibrancy for the city centre - more shops (offsetting the Meadowhall effect discussed elsewhere on this forum), more restaurants, more visits to the theatre, increased safety and security as there are more people about....

Your problem with these apartments is what again?

Luxury flats are a good idea. They bring old buildings back into use again and new buildings (designers will have learned from the 60's disasters) give parts of the city centre a fresh look and feel - lets face it, some parts are QUITE run down.

Because they can be expensive, they attract richer people with big wallets, so facilities grow around these new communities, adding more prosperity. Just look at West One for example...

They aren't overpriced at all, in fact they are probably underpriced at the moment if you make £/sq ft comparisons. They are also very cheap in comparison to other cities.

As to demand, well when developers are once again allowed to build on greenfield sites, then the demand will dry up. In the meantime we are just catching up with the rest of the world where most people live in apartments in cities.

If you like to keep your green fields green, you will keep seeing apartment developments. If you are quite happy to lose your fields the drequirements in town will wain.

You use the word "luxury" emphasizing your particular point that some of the builds may not be up to your definition of luxury.
When a developer uses this term it's purely marketing and another word to help the sale.

Most city apartments are built to an acceptable level all with a similar trend.

Invasion as far as I can see is nothing but a good thing.

Live in one of these 'luxury' flats myself - you couldn't be more wrong. They're much better quality than you've allowed for, and are nothing like the size, purpose or design of the 50s/60s tower blocks. Come over for a drink if you don't believe me!! :D

These flats can only be a good thing if they are bringing money into the city centre.

I don't think anyone has a "problem" with anyone living in these "luxury" apartments springing up everywhere, MrHelicopter, the problem people have is when these apartments are built in preference over other forms of housing - housing with gardens, space for more than one and a half people, and space for you to live your life in however it changes.

The majority of people see these apartments as a short term housing solution, as for the majority, that is what they are. Most people as they grow older aspire to eventually own a property of their own, and for most of these, that property doesn't include an apartment in a tower block. People need space and light and outdoor green areas to call their own that they can eventually raise a family in. This isnt just a "lifestyle" choice, it's a basic human necessity.

Me and my partner currently rent a maisonette with no garden, just a balcony that i grow my potted plants on. It's spacious, being over two floors, but we are still desperately planning towards buying our own property with a garden, or better yet, buying some land and building our own house to our own environmentally friendly specifications, where we can settle down and raise a family in.

So maybe the question really is, not "why the apartments?", but "why so many"?

i think its a great idea the less people living out here in the country the better. less noise and pollution.. Also you can get up to what you like out here, none stop raves at the weekends and music as loud as you like.

I hope they cram as many people in as poss.. it sound like another great idea from the city folk to keep them there.

oh and you don't have to live right next door to some one to have a socail life these days.

I guess the reason so many are built is people keep buying them!

Anyway, what's the difference between a flat and an apartment, other than about £50k!

Originally posted by LittleWitch
I don't think anyone has a "problem" with anyone living in these "luxury" apartments springing up everywhere, MrHelicopter, the problem people have is when these apartments are built in preference over other forms of housing - housing with gardens, space for more than one and a half people, and space for you to live your life in however it changes.

The majority of people see these apartments as a short term housing solution, as for the majority, that is what they are. Most people as they grow older aspire to eventually own a property of their own, and for most of these, that property doesn't include an apartment in a tower block. People need space and light and outdoor green areas to call their own that they can eventually raise a family in. This isnt just a "lifestyle" choice, it's a basic human necessity.

Me and my partner currently rent a maisonette with no garden, just a balcony that i grow my potted plants on. It's spacious, being over two floors, but we are still desperately planning towards buying our own property with a garden, or better yet, buying some land and building our own house to our own environmentally friendly specifications, where we can settle down and raise a family in.

So maybe the question really is, not "why the apartments?", but "why so many"?

Ahh..at last..some sense :thumbsup: :D :thumbsup:
Exactly what I was trying to say

Property companies, exist to make profit. They will do whatever makes them the maximum amount of cash. At the moment that is city apartments. If the demand for the properties dies down, then the companies will re-asses their ideas and find something else that can make the maximum amount of cash.

Low cost housing is less likely to be built in any city centre due to land values being so high. Property developers would struggle to profit, so they build elsewhere.

I work on these Apartments *cough* Flats *Cough* and i have to say theyre a rip off for what they are.Small compact 1/2 bed flats with most having a kitchen/dining/living room and a small toliet that has one of them annoying fans in them.
Id reccomend NEVER buying one.If you work in the city centre ,why not buy a house in heeley or summit which is on the main bus ruote into town and you'd get much much more for your money.

oh i know that low cost housing would never be built in city centres because of the price of land etc, but the problem is that it isn't being built elsewhere either. I'm not talking about the difference between a 2 bed flat in wards brewery and a 2 bed house in crookes, i'm talking about affordable housing for low budgets, for people that don't have the choice between a luxury flat or a house in crookes.

I do think that inner city living is a good thing, and these apartments will help to boost city centres, but as developers are out for money, the lower end of the market is suffering from a lack of housing due to the popularity of inner city flats bought by people that can afford it.

The problem is not with people buying these flats to live in. I know a lot of people buying these to let out. It just pushes the prices up so that most single people could never afford them.

To those that make comparisons beteen places like Kelvin Flats / other hi-rises...... its the people that make the place, not the place that makes the people, I know, I knew someone who lived in Kelvin

People that can afford £100k plus/ £550 per month in rent for a 1 bedroom flat (more for two beds) are unlikely to urinate in the lifts and "shoot up" in the stairwells.

I live in west one and think its great. Easy access to town, 10 minutes to the peak district on my pushbike, 15 minutes to the M1. Sure I'd love to own a "real house" but what does £100k get you these days in sheffield? not a lot as I found out.

Steve

There's quite a lot going for these 'in town' developments. Apart from the proximity of the night life, getting to work is much easier. Even if you work out of town you're travelling against the peak traffic flow which should save a few hours a week sitting in traffic jams.

As for the cost...how does £500/month rent compare with repayments on a £100k mortgage ?

As for the cost...how does £500/month rent compare with repayments on a £100k mortgage ?

http://www.if.com/mortgage/mortgage_home.asp

Offset: £342.35
Fixed rate: £492.30
Tracker rate: £412.90

You forgot to include saving up at least £5k deposit, then maybe the same again for buying furniture, pots, pans, white goods, then you may have to pay the service charge, ground rent, parking, etc, etc, etc.

And of course, to afford a £100k mortgage you need a job paying over £25k pa, whereas you just need £500 a month to live in a £100k apartment.

Renting makes a lot of sense for more and more people until they become established in careers and/or relationships.

All this c rap about apartments/flats makes me laugh and all stems from ignorance. I sold a house in Dore and moved to West One. I have never been so happy and my quality of life has increased beyond measure, it was without doubt a good decision.
My apartment is spacious, light, bright and extremely quiet, I don't have to put up with lawnmowers on a Sunday morning, noisy neighbours having barbeques, car washing, fireworks, barking dogs etc. etc. etc. I have complete privacy together with peace and quiet but with superb facilities right on my doorstep if I want them. I can now walk out for a meal or a drink anytime I want without debating with the wife on who is going to drive, I have a gym and hot tub on the premises at the Cage, in fact life couldn't be better it is like a permanent holiday - no grass to cut, no DIY, no slates off the roof, no blocked drains none of these things.
Then I come on here and read a complete load of tosh comparing West One to Parkhill - the comparison is so laughably ridiculous as to be unworthy of a response.

Every City in this country has apartments, London, Liverpool, Leeds, Manchester, you name it, so I am at a loss to understand the resistance to apartments in Sheffield. The answer is simple, if you don't want to live in one - don't, if you don't think they are good value for money - don't buy one. But for goodness sake stop making yourselves look stupid by making ridiculous statements on something you obviously have no understanding of.
Apartments/flats however you wish to call them are bought and sold in every city in the world, why on earth anyone should think that Sheffield will be the one exception and become a 'flat wasteland' ready for future demolition is beyond me, have any of the 'knockers' ever visited another city? Now it may seem that a lot of flats are being built at the moment and it is understandable how this impression is gained but if you check out the % of this type of housing to the population you will find that it is far lower than in other cities within the UK, these other cities are surviving quite well by the way.

Why would anyone pay £200,000 to be stacked up in a noisy city, rather than spending that on a lovley cottage, being woken by the birds and the wind through the trees.

I really dont see the point of sitting on works doorstep in a box surrounded by other boxes that could have not vry nice people living in them!

I guess its each to thier own... :rolleyes:

I really don't think the recent city flats in Sheffield are overpriced compared to other properties. In a couple of years i will be considering my first mortgage. The chances are I will not be able to afford to buy if house prices continue to rise. I would have to considering renting for some time and would consider living in the city as it would make sense. At the current time i'm not sure whether i'll be in Liverpool or Sheffield. Comparatively, City apartments are much less expensive than similar developments in Liverpool, so you get a lot more for your money in sheff.

I think developments like these are excellent for a city. They take scruffy areas and make them into more pleasant spaces to live. West one has helped to redevelop the whole area around Devonshire green. In Liverpool, there is a development called rope walks that has taken a a huge area of derelict warehouses and converted it into apartments, bars, restaurants, shops etc. What was an unpleasant area is now a safe, lively and enjoyable place to be. There's a chance that they may end up derelict again in many years time, but thats no reason to leave the area as it is now, and not try to improve it. http://www.ropewalks.org.uk/

Design is of course, a major consideration. I do feel that some developments skimp on the aesthetics of the buildings.

Another point is that modern apartment blocks cannot be compared to 60's style buildings. Flats in the 60's were designed by local councils to provide cheap housing for those that couldn't afford it. They were destined to become run down from day one.

Originally posted by Lickable
Why would anyone pay £200,000 to be stacked up in a noisy city, rather than spending that on a lovley cottage, being woken by the birds and the wind through the trees.

I really dont see the point of sitting on works doorstep in a box surrounded by other boxes that could have not vry nice people living in them!

I guess its each to thier own... :rolleyes:

Yes it is each to their own.
There are people that wish to believe that the countryside is an idyllic paradise full of very nice people and then there are people who know this isn't true. I have lived in the country, it is neither blissful or full of 'vry nice people'(sic), I now live in the city and know that I do not live stacked in a box on my work doorstep.
Please don't let facts spoil a good opinion.

It is obviously each to their own. As much as people appreciate the country, we wouldn't all like to live there. I spend most of my time in the city, and would like to be right in the middle of it as i like hustle and bustle. I can also appreciate why others would hate living right in the city. I'm sure when i'm older will move somewhere more peaceful in a house as my life will be different then. Hopefully i'll end up back near the beach, as I really miss the coast and the view when i'm in Sheffield.

We all have different needs and wishes. it's only fair that we all have a choice of place to live, even if we chose to live in a city apartment.

But for goodness sake stop making yourselves look stupid by making ridiculous statements on something you obviously have no understanding of.


Jeeez Whelk, I always thought people were entitled to an opinion......

Originally posted by Whelk
All this c rap about apartments/flats makes me laugh and all stems from ignorance. I sold a house in Dore and moved to West One. I have never been so happy and my quality of life has increased beyond measure, it was without doubt a good decision.
My apartment is spacious, light, bright and extremely quiet, I don't have to put up with lawnmowers on a Sunday morning, noisy neighbours having barbeques, car washing, fireworks, barking dogs etc. etc. etc. I have complete privacy together with peace and quiet but with superb facilities right on my doorstep if I want them. I can now walk out for a meal or a drink anytime I want without debating with the wife on who is going to drive, I have a gym and hot tub on the premises at the Cage, in fact life couldn't be better it is like a permanent holiday - no grass to cut, no DIY, no slates off the roof, no blocked drains none of these things.
Then I come on here and read a complete load of tosh comparing West One to Parkhill - the comparison is so laughably ridiculous as to be unworthy of a response.



Every City in this country has apartments, London, Liverpool, Leeds, Manchester, you name it, so I am at a loss to understand the resistance to apartments in Sheffield. The answer is simple, if you don't want to live in one - don't, if you don't think they are good value for money - don't buy one. But for goodness sake stop making yourselves look stupid by making ridiculous statements on something you obviously have no understanding of.
Apartments/flats however you wish to call them are bought and sold in every city in the world, why on earth anyone should think that Sheffield will be the one exception and become a 'flat wasteland' ready for future demolition is beyond me, have any of the 'knockers' ever visited another city? Now it may seem that a lot of flats are being built at the moment and it is understandable how this impression is gained but if you check out the % of this type of housing to the population you will find that it is far lower than in other cities within the UK, these other cities are surviving quite well by the way.

People aren't so much comparing West One to Park Hill flats directly. I'm sure when people first moved into ParkHill flats in the 60's they weren't shooting up or ******* in the lifts either..but they are now. What prompted the trend from New modern flats of their era to squallid pits that they are now???...who's to say the same won't happen to West One and all the other numerous blocks of flats going up like at the moment.
People live where they want to live and enjoy and good on you all..thats up to you.
It is obviously worth a response though because you have responded!!!!
I personally couldn't give a toss if the sun shone directly from your lovely apartment just like I don't really care how great you think it is..thats not the discussion going on here and personally I couldn't care less what goes on in Liverpool, Manchester or elsewhere..I live in Sheffield. There isn't likely to be a downward spiral trend for a long time especially as city living has only really taken off in the last 5 years or so...But neither you nor I can say for definite that they won't follow the same path that Park Hill flats have taken. Remember the showreel from the beginning of the Full Monty film showcasing the tower blocks and how they are revolutionising living??
Lets just get one thing clear..there is no resistance as such to city living or the people that choose to live there..its great for the city...but has any thought or design logic gone in to the future and whether or not these types of apartments can sustain future growth and expansion??..thats my gripe.

Just a thought... If interest rates keep rising and the bubble bursts then some of these flats may well get repossessed, then they may end up in being let to the very same people who pee in the lifts etc etc etc.. Lets hope not though..

I'm not sure why people think that the scrubbers who pee in the lifts are the same people who live there because in my experience they are not.

In my tower block 99% of the people are great. We all talk to eachother when we pass each other in the foyer or see eachother in the lift. Most people are respectful and keep the noise down etc..

However we are plagued by graffiti, vandalism, peeing in the lifts, flowers and plants destroyed, seating areas ripped to shreds etc....These crimes are not committed by people who live here but visitors to the 1% of scrubbers who have been given a flat here or kids who get into the block.

On my landing I regularly have to put up with seeing a young man smoking heroin near the chute area or smack head woman who likes to sleep on the landing. Neither of these people live here but they are the ones that make it so friends and relatives no longer want to visit me or my neighbours.

Originally posted by neeeeeeeeeek
Just a thought... If interest rates keep rising and the bubble bursts then some of these flats may well get repossessed, then they may end up in being let to the very same people who pee in the lifts etc etc etc.. Lets hope not though..

Oh I think I understand now . . . .

and in the same circumstances houses won't be repossesed will they? Houses will always be full of lovely smiling people who can all afford whatever interest rates are thrown at them. Houses do not run any risk of the bubble bursting and housing estates are all wonderful places.
Ever considered that your next door neighbour might lose their job not pay their mortgage and the house be repossessed and let to undesireables that make your life hell?
We all run that risk in life but as you say - let's hope not.

There is a shortage of lower cost housing (or officially termed affordable housing) in Sheffield - no doubt, like just about every other place in the country but provding 'luxury flats' is NOT at the expense of providng affordable homes - the fact is that for any scheme providing more than 15 dwellings (flats) the developer is legally oblidged to provide approximately 30% of units as social - defined as 'affordable' which may include low cost market or 'key worker' (for teachers, firemen etc) housing - this element would be transferred over to a Housing Association and secured in perpetuity

So contrary to popular belief (as recognised in this thread) providing luxury flats actually levers in affordable housing (or sometimes off-site or financial contributions) secured through legal agreement - in fact a planning application will be refused if this affordable element is not legally secured as part of the application

so if you are against 'city living' and the inherently greedy developers just remember that there are benefits to building 'luxury' flats. I think the flats on the western side of West One for example is where the social (affordable) element is located

and i won't bother going on about building on brownfield city centre sites is sustainable and results in preserving the countryside and reducing the reliance on the private car

building in the city does however, present a whole raft of other problems, of course

[QUOTE]Originally posted by wibbles
People aren't so much comparing West One to Park Hill flats directly.

errr. . . . Yes they were


I'm sure when people first moved into ParkHill flats in the 60's they weren't shooting up or ******* in the lifts either..but they are now.

You are comparing low cost local authority housing with private housing. What about comparing Dore with the Manor? I think you will find that exactly the same comparisons could be levelled



What prompted the trend from New modern flats of their era to squallid pits that they are now???...who's to say the same won't happen to West One and all the other numerous blocks of flats going up like at the moment.


1) The answer to that is obvious. The people in those squallid pits do not have the cash that the people in these new flats do. Now if we use your logic then Kensington in London would be a squallid pit instead of the sea of luxury apartments that it is. This I think shows that it isn't the building but the people who live in it.

2) There are not a great deal of flats going up at the moment compared to the volume of population. If you check out the statistics for this mode of accomodation for other cities you will find that we are below average and that there is a very real need for these flats/apartments that is proven out by the fact that they are selling. Using your logic what comments could be made about Anston, Aston and all the 'Worksop' developments?


People live where they want to live and enjoy and good on you all..thats up to you.

completely agree.

It is obviously worth a response though because you have responded!!!!

yea you got me there




and personally I couldn't care less what goes on in Liverpool, Manchester or elsewhere..I live in Sheffield.

good idea - ignore everything that goes on outside of sheffield and just carry on burning witches.




There isn't likely to be a downward spiral trend for a long time especially as city living has only really taken off in the last 5 years or so...

I can't believe I read that - where the hell have you been? Don't you travel, read papers, watch television? Just because you personally have only recently become aware of it in that time doesn't mean it is completely a recent thing. People have been living in cities for centuries.



But neither you nor I can say for definite that they won't follow the same path that Park Hill flats have taken.

No more than I can say that Dore and Totley won't go the same way.

Remember the showreel from the beginning of the Full Monty film showcasing the tower blocks and how they are revolutionising living??

Yes, I can also remember the public mouthing when new parts of the manor were built. It is the people who live in these places more than the buildings.


Lets just get one thing clear..there is no resistance as such to city living or the people that choose to live there..its great for the city...but has any thought or design logic gone in to the future and whether or not these types of apartments can sustain future growth and expansion??


I think that a lot of thought has been put into it. I think that following examples of other cities there is also a helluva lot of experience out there that can be put to good advantage. You assume that this is a new trend - it is not. People have been living like this successfully for a long time.


..thats my gripe.

I just don't understand why you should have a gripe at all. I also don't understand why you feel free to compare West One with Kelvin but not Dore with Page Hall.

and in the same circumstances houses won't be repossesed will they? Houses will always be full of lovely smiling people who can all afford whatever interest rates are thrown at them. Houses do not run any risk of the bubble bursting and housing estates are all wonderful places.

I did not say houses would not get repossessed, the difference being that most houses don't generally share access with 100 other people and you do not normally have people living above, below, left and right of you! Apart from family members / lodgers / friends. House owners are also less likely to have random strangers loitering about..

Mod: Threads merged.

Since when did flats become apartments? and what is the difference?

Is it yet another Americanism we have picked up?
if so come back english luxury flats.

Originally posted by brummy_tracy
Since when did flats become apartments? and what is the difference?

Is it yet another Americanism we have picked up?
if so come back english luxury flats.

It's a euphemism for estate agents to use to avoid the connotations of flat (council, small, elderly, etc) and gain the connotations of apartment (trendy, well off Americans, young, etc).

A friend of mine rented a flat at Shalesmoor that was a converted factory, that was exactly my idea of what city centre apartments would look like, big windows, open plan, iron columns, oak floors etc. etc.

This kind of development I think is good, it saves old building from being demolished and gives them and the area a new lease of life. Some of the other new developments, where the area was just levelled and a concrete box containing as many flats as the developer can get planning permission for (West One) or where the old building has been all but obscured by the new building (Wards Brewery), do not (in my opinion) look good.

West one towers over West Street and Devonsire Green, it's out of proportion to all the surrounding buildings and isn't a very exciting design either. The flats above Nondos are in probably one of the most boring new buildings in Sheffield since the new town hall was built.

The flats around the Peace Gardens, the ones at Shalesmoor, or the ones in the old building on Ladies Bridge are probably the only ones I would consider living in, they have character, which in the end is more important to me than laminate flooring and an on-suite bathroom the size of a coffin.

Originally posted by t020
It's a euphemism for estate agents to use to avoid the connotations of flat (council, small, elderly, etc) and gain the connotations of apartment (trendy, well off Americans, young, etc).

Cheers you answered an argument we were having at work.
There is no difference! just snobbery!
Someone told a guy I work with the difference was carpets on the stairs and he believed them. He is blond mind.

...City Living apartments

Anyone live in one of these and/or know what they are like and how easy is it to rent one.

I really do need to get out of here. :(

City Living Apartments? Where are you going to park that new car though spyro?

Originally posted by redrobbo
City Living Apartments? Where are you going to park that new car though spyro?

Ive got a 'disabled' sticker ;)

Good to see im not the only villa supporter up here!
i moved up here wiv my girlfriend about 9 months agao and moved into a smartpad at Jet centro. i think the apartments are a really good way of living, when everything you need is at your door step.
Were currently about to move in2 a one bed at coode house on the riverside.
All the rooms in the new apartments are sound proofed pretty well. Car spaces are like gold dust. But if you have a disabled badge that shouldn't be a problem, but it will be a bit risky leaving your car in the middle of a city centre over night. Even though it is very expensive for the car spaces (i pay 50 quid pcm, and that is one of the cheapest) i still have the peace of mind that my car is in a secure car park. And you can always be sure to find glass on the floor when walking round the streets of sheffield.
As for sheffield itself, we love it, the people are friendly (much more better then brum!) nightlife is great and 10 minute drive you can be in the derbyshire dales.

anyway thats my view since living here so ll thats leaft to say is come on the VILLA!

spyro your from birmingham, why not move back there.

kieran_grund - Ive been up here for many years, there arent many of us Villans around. So nice one :thumbsup:

I currently live in a rented 2 bedroom house, but to be honest its too big for me, and theres no need for me to have it. I would much prefer to have a smaller but nicer place in town. Close to all amenities.

Laura21 - Im in Sheffield for a reason, so Im not planning on going back to brum.

Originally posted by kieran_grund
Good to see im not the only villa supporter up here!
i moved up here wiv my girlfriend about 9 months agao and moved into a smartpad at Jet centro. i think the apartments are a really good way of living, when everything you need is at your door step.
Were currently about to move in2 a one bed at coode house on the riverside.
All the rooms in the new apartments are sound proofed pretty well. Car spaces are like gold dust. But if you have a disabled badge that shouldn't be a problem, but it will be a bit risky leaving your car in the middle of a city centre over night. Even though it is very expensive for the car spaces (i pay 50 quid pcm, and that is one of the cheapest) i still have the peace of mind that my car is in a secure car park. And you can always be sure to find glass on the floor when walking round the streets of sheffield.
As for sheffield itself, we love it, the people are friendly (much more better then brum!) nightlife is great and 10 minute drive you can be in the derbyshire dales.

anyway thats my view since living here so ll thats leaft to say is come on the VILLA!

What he said!!!

Spyro- me and lea1979 live in one of the penthouses of the same black of flats as kieran and its so so good living in the city ccentre- no taxi's and shops that are open 24hours right on your doorstep- best move we ever made :D :D

I dont know what happened to the other thread. It must have been pulled.

It it hasnt then fair enough

Anyone know any decent websites that I can look at for City Centre apartments like West One, Leadmill etc?

It's here.

Member note: Threads merged.

Mod note:

Ahem.. it was removed to stop you two having a go at each other. Don't start it up again or this thread will go west and bans will be dished out.

Originally posted by spyro2000
I dont know what happened to the other thread. It must have been pulled.

It it hasnt then fair enough

Anyone know any decent websites that I can look at for City Centre apartments like West One, Leadmill etc?

I think West One has its own site, Google for West One Sheffield and click "I'm feeling lucky", otherwise the sheer mention of Sheffield in the search will just bring you back here probably.

Originally posted by Tony
Mod note:

Ahem.. it was removed to stop you two having a go at each other. Don't start it up again or this thread will go west and bans will be dished out.

It wasn't removed - JoeP sent me the link to it, it had just been pruned. It's still here ( http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13129 ) without me and spyro "having a go" at each other (although we'd kissed and made up days ago anyway).

Originally posted by scottf
What he said!!!

Spyro- me and lea1979 live in one of the penthouses of the same black of flats as kieran and its so so good living in the city ccentre- no taxi's and shops that are open 24hours right on your doorstep- best move we ever made :D :D

On the downside though:

- Much higher crime rate
- Much higher traffic congestion/ pollution
- Lack of parking
- Noise pollution
- Litter
- Drunken louts

Originally posted by Rich
I think West One has its own site, Google for West One Sheffield and click "I'm feeling lucky", otherwise the sheer mention of Sheffield in the search will just bring you back here probably.

I think West One is covered by www.artfullodger.co.uk, although they also do other accomodation

Originally posted by t020
On the downside though:

- Much higher crime rate
- Much higher traffic congestion/ pollution
- Lack of parking
- Noise pollution
- Litter
- Drunken louts

- Crime rate- compared to where? Id say a block of apartments, with security doors, CCTV and people coming and going all the time are far harder to break into than a residential properly in a quiet street.
- Parking- You can rent a parking space if your apartment doesn't come with one- same as west one
- Noise pollution- not really an issue because of nice thick walls and excellent double glazing that they have in these new flats- i havn't even heard any of our neighbours since we have been living here
-drunken louts and litter- your just nit picking- you get drunk people and litter everywhere- lol!!!

the best thing about living in the city centre is the location location location.

Having every amenity on your doorstep;
Having your mates drop in when they are in the city centre;
Going out and not having to worry about taixs;
Being close to the train station;

Listening to people moan about the overpriced flats and apartments then smiling to yourself as you as you remember you can walk to work, walk home at lunch and dont spend a day a week commuting.

I couldn't live anywhere without a garden now I have one, it's the best thing about my house. A tiny balcony overlooking a busy road just isn't the same as sitting under a tree having a cold beer while the BBQ warms-up.

Originally posted by scottf
- Crime rate- compared to where? Id say a block of apartments, with security doors, CCTV and people coming and going all the time are far harder to break into than a residential properly in a quiet street.
- Parking- You can rent a parking space if your apartment doesn't come with one- same as west one
- Noise pollution- not really an issue because of nice thick walls and excellent double glazing that they have in these new flats- i havn't even heard any of our neighbours since we have been living here
-drunken louts and litter- your just nit picking- you get drunk people and litter everywhere- lol!!!


- Crime rate compared to anywhere else in the city. The Central ward has the highest crime rate across the whole of Sheffield.
- Parking is an added expense then, and even more so if you have 2 or more cars, not to mention less convenient (there's no walking out of the front door, on to the drive and into the car).
- Noise pollution - many new builds are built cheaply and the walls are often very thin. It sounds like you've been lucky with yours.
- Drunken louts and litter - much, much, much, much, much more prevalent in the city centre.

And to add to the list, as nick2 says, lack of a garden. Each to their own though. :thumbsup:

Originally posted by t020
- Crime rate compared to anywhere else in the city. The Central ward has the highest crime rate across the whole of Sheffield.
- Parking is an added expense then, and even more so if you have 2 or more cars, not to mention less convenient (there's no walking out of the front door, on to the drive and into the car).
- Noise pollution - many new builds are built cheaply and the walls are often very thin. It sounds like you've been lucky with yours.
- Drunken louts and litter - much, much, much, much, much more prevalent in the city centre.


The Central ward is always going have the highest crime rate due to the shops and shoppers and the numbers of people in general. Living in a flat is easily more secure (unless its on the groundfloor) than living in a house, as you usually have a few doors to get through before you are even at your front door.

The whole point of living in the city is that you dont need to have a car, and if you do most of the flats allow you or its easy enough to rent, one parking space, why would anyone want more than two cars?

Ive lived in several flats and never had a problem with noise, at present my flat has triple glazing as required by the council to keep out excess noise.

Drunken louts and litter, coming from the many more pubs and many more people, which give the city centre a choice and vibrance suburbia will never have.

Fair enough point about the garden though, but then even that point is only valid for the days when its warm enough or not raining