Which Hotel is this from 1912 [Archive]

Dawdie

10-07-2006, 19:07

Has anyone any suggestions of an old Sheffield Hotel circa 1912.Its very extensive in area 3 storeys high and very ornate.
The lighter stone entrance just has Hotel carved over the door but on either side are the initials Cand B and above this a Crown.Both the initials and Crown look as though they could be illuminated with light bulbs.
There are 4 family members infront of the Hotel and it is known that they were licencees and had connections with the Music Hall.
Two known addresses were Carver St and Paradise Sq.
Thank You
Audrey

Strix

10-07-2006, 19:10

Audrey - is this a photo you have?

do you have it on your computer, or can somebody organise that for you?

Edit:Photo 1 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/wharncliffe/UnknownHotel.jpg)

Edit: Photo 2 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/wharncliffe/hawthorn85_681380.jpg)

Dawdie

10-07-2006, 19:15

Hi
Yes it is a photo but I'm not sure how to post it on the Forum
Audrey

Strix

10-07-2006, 19:25

Oh good! you are here ;)

do you have a photobucket account? (or something similar)

www.photobucket.com

put your photo there, and post the address of it here for us to click our way to :thumbsup:

(don't forget to choose the option 'make album public')

Dawdie

10-07-2006, 20:02

Hi Strix
Managed to upload to photobucket but what else do i need to do so it can be viewed
Thanks audrey

medusa

10-07-2006, 20:58

Hi audrey

If you copy the link to the photo from your photobucket account, then start a reply to this thread by pressing 'Go advanced' below this box, and hover over the icons til you find the one that says 'Insert Link'- it's in the middle of the bottom row.

Click that then paste your photobucket link in there, then click OK and write your message around that.

Strix

10-07-2006, 22:55

or, if that sounds complicated....

go to your photobucket picture
click the address bar (http://www.blahblahblah), so it goes blue
hold 'ctrl' and press 'c'
come back here
start a new post
hold 'ctrl' and press 'v'

the forum software is clever enough to make it into a clickable link for us :thumbsup:

Dawdie

11-07-2006, 16:57

www.photobucket.com

Strix

11-07-2006, 18:13

you need to have your photo on the screen when you copy the link Audrey ;)

that only gets us to the home page of photobucket.

The other way we could do it, is if you tell us what the picture is called, and we use the search facility on photobucket to find it :thumbsup:

Dawdie

11-07-2006, 19:17

Hi Everyone
Sorry for all this confusion,I'm afraid I'm not very "user friendly" despite all your kind help.The photo is listed as unknown hotel on photobucket.Hope you can find it from this
Thank You
Audrey

pietro

11-07-2006, 19:51

Hi audrey ..... take a look in your PM box.

pietro

11-07-2006, 21:02

Here is Audrey's mystery photo.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/wharncliffe/UnknownHotel.jpg

Any ideas?

HughW

11-07-2006, 21:38

Dawdie

12-07-2006, 07:27

Hi Hugh
you could be right about the letters,I thought the C could have been a G.On the reverse it says Charles Buxton{family] 1912.There is another photo with what looks like the younger man in the group stood in the doorway of the Hotel which makes me believe they managed it rather than just visiting.In various census's the family were listed as barmen or licensed victuallers.I know it will be beyond the memory of todays people but I thought if the building had survived for some other use someone may recognise it.Although with whats happening to Sheffield's Buildings I'm not very hopeful.
Thanks for your input anyway and the others who have helped with my limited computing skills.
Audrey

retep

12-07-2006, 11:50

retep

12-07-2006, 12:00

On the left of the picture is a sign above the shop window, looks like a street sign, can you make any letters out.

Dawdie

12-07-2006, 14:48

retep

12-07-2006, 15:05

Lindseyw

12-07-2006, 15:06

First glance to me it looks like the building that houses 7 Spices balti opposite the fire museum ?

Dawdie

12-07-2006, 17:23

Hi Retep
Yes this is the family.There was a Hotel on Paradise St but its not the one I'm trying to identify.There's a photo on Picture Sheffield of this one.Its so frustrating because the building seems familiar,maybe it was just the Architecture of that time because to me I can see parts of the Education Offices,the old G.P.O. Grand Hotel and even Hillsborough Barracks but none are a close enough match !
Audrey

Falls

12-07-2006, 20:49

Hi Audreyf,

I share your frustration. I also think I have seen the building before but can't think where.

First its a fine looking building, situated on a street that is level, or close to it. Most of the Sheffield streets that are on the level are in the valleys, very few in the city centre.

The building's design is also quite different, particularly the gable-end on the left of the picture.

I could be wrong but I also think that you can rule-out the Park district as a possible location. I spent a lot of my childhood in the Old Park (before 1958 ) and don't remember a building quite that stylish there.

TheRedWizard

13-07-2006, 01:54

The right hand letter looks more like an 'R' to me, which makes me wonder if the left hand one could be a G rather than a C ?!

A crown plus GR - could the hotel be specially decorated for, say, the coronation of George V (1910).

I had a browse through lots of hotels on PictureSheffield (http://www.picturesheffield.com) without spotting it (but there were so many my eyes glazed over:) ).

Hugh

Yes - I think you're spot on about GR and the crown, it is very similar to lots of other coronation decoration photos I've seen.

I've just scratched my head for ages trying to figure out which building it reminded me of - definitely the Children's Hospital opposite Firth Court. It's not there, but it's what it reminds me of!!!!!

Fareast

13-07-2006, 04:10

I don't know if this will be a helpful suggestion , but could it be one of the railway hotels ? For example , was there any kind of hotel attached to the Victoria station before the 1st. World War --------or perhaps nearby on The Wicker ?

Jossman

13-07-2006, 18:21

Not an expert, but it looks like the building types around Ranmoor.

Falls

13-07-2006, 18:39

No the letters are indistinguishable but like you I think it is a street sign,a short one at that!
On 1901 Census there is a George Buxton living on Old St [Crown and Cushion Hotel] but dont know if this is part of the family or even exactly where it is except its in the Park District.

Hi Audreyf,

Old Street, in the Park, should still be there but may have a fancy new name these days. It ran parallel with Bernard Street, on the city side. It started at Broad Street (about where the road bends to the left as you come up the hill), and ended at Bard Street.

On a recent visit to Sheffield (June 4th), I went along Bernard Street. Most of the buildings I remember from years ago on the city side where still there, including the old Park Congregational Church (1915): Now all spruced-up and some kind of community centre.

Old Street ran along the other side (back) of church at a lower level than Bernard Street. I was in a hurry that day and didn't have time to see any of the other streets in the neighbourhood.

Regarding a good comment from Far East, The hotel he is thinking about would be the Royal Victoria Station Hotel ( think it was later renamed the Holiday Inn but may have changed its name again) at the end of what used to be the station approach. That is a much larger hotel than shown on the photo. As to it being in the Wicker, I grew up in that part of town (1937-1960) and unfortunately, I don't remember any building as impressive as the one on your photo. Of course, it could have been in the Wicker before I came along and replaced by some newer building.

I don't recall any new construction in the whole district on anything that looked new, apart from the OXO building on Joiner Street. The wicker area in my childhood was just one big collection of old, worn-out buildings. Any "civic improvements" that occured down there were started by the Lufwaffe. Newer buildings now in the area are from 1960 or later.

Another comment about your hotel looking like the old Children's Hospital building on Western Bank was close but perhaps not what you are looking for. Certainly, the architectual quality of the two buildings is about the same.

Regards

Dawdie

13-07-2006, 19:34

Hi Everyone
I know I mentioned the Education offices before as a possibility but now I'm thinking the side part to these which were used as The City Grammar School.Its all covered in scaffolding and tarpaulin as this area undergoes redevelopment so I cant see it but what do you all think?
If I dont find out soon I shall have a sore head with all this scratching!!

saxon51

13-07-2006, 20:19

Search arond on here for similar buildings (http://www.picturesheffield.com/)

HughW

14-07-2006, 07:28

This isn't it but the building on the left of this picture had me going... West Street (http://www.picturesheffield.com/jpgh/s00095.jpg). The building in the foreground is the Beehive so the side street should be Portland Lane.

Hugh

Fareast

14-07-2006, 09:07

Well , this sure is a fascinating puzzle !
These are just some musings -----hope they throw up a clue ?
The space in front of the building is obviously fairly wide . That's why I thought previously of a railway hotel . [ taxis turning round .....etc....] .Not to labour the point , but could this have been an older version of the Royal Victoria ? Or could it have been the same building but that the frontage of the Royal Vic was modernised ?
The road seems to be going slightly downhill from right to left and as for the " street setting " , to me , it looks exactly like the street in front of the old post office building , looking from Fitzalan Square towards the old main entrance .
The second letter seems certainly to be a B -------so ' G.B ' ? Great British ? Great Britain ?
Lastly , is Audrey sure that the building is an hotel in the everyday sense of the word ? In those days did people have lavish , private , exclusive hotels , which were more like private houses or at least private clubs ? Someone suggested it looked like one of the big houses up in Ranmoor and this would fit in with the last idea .[ Until about 1960 my aunty worked for a local businessman { everyone knows the name } who had a huge house in Ranmoor . It was as big as an hotel and employed nearly as many staff ! ].
Can't wait to get the answer . Any point in consulting an old architectural firm for some clues ?

pitsmoorlad

14-07-2006, 09:32

My bet is that it's not a hotel as I can't see any Hotel Name and they used to have their names in BIG letters. I reckon it's an offics type building and it's
on West St. I'm sure that the shop on the corner survived into the 70s / 80s.
I think it was decorated with G R and the crown to mark King George's coronation.

Fareast

14-07-2006, 15:06

Pitsmoorlad-------you may have hit the nail on the head there !
The street name looks small enough to be ' West St. ' and if you are right , it looks like the bit of West Street , roughly behind the City Hall . Is the corner shop on the corner of the little street which used to have the old Red Lion on it ?
The mystery deepens !

lazarus

14-07-2006, 18:08

I dont think its anywhere near Holly St/West St because the pavement does not seem to have any incline, it looks like a very flat street where-ever it is.

Falls

14-07-2006, 18:33

Hi AudreyF,

The building on HughW's photo of West Street has an almost uncanny resemblance to the one in your photo. Can't see it being your building though because of the different pediment, window and other architectural details. Best try so far but we will have to keep looking.

Regards

Dawdie

14-07-2006, 20:50

Hi Fareast and pitsmoorlad
Its definitely a hotel.Perhaps its not very clear but over the entrance where the group are standing the word Hotel is carved but just that nothing else!
I've been to the Local Studies library and they have been involved in the search but to no avail.I just wish there was'nt a 100 year closure on census information because if it was decorated for George V Coronation,that was in June 1911 and the census was taken either March/April that year.I hope I dont have to wait 5 years!
Audrey

MickeyMO

14-07-2006, 23:05

Interesting mystery. I'll throw in my thoughts. Could the letters be GB?
Looking at the census data there is the son George Buxton then 17 years old (1891) by 1912 (date on back of photo) George would be around 38 and possibly managing his own hotel so could the letters be his initials. That would leave the crown symbol to maybe belong to the hotel name.
'The Crown' or 'The Crown & Cushion'
By the way Old Street, Park, still exists.Its where Broad Street becomes Cricket Inn Road.
Finally, I once saw a book in the local library about old Sheffield pubs.Unfortunately I can't remember the title or author but I think he was local. It had lots of maps and photographs. Maybe if anyone knows this book they could have a look in there.

GrinderBloke

14-07-2006, 23:40

Yes - I think you're spot on about GR and the crown, it is very similar to lots of other coronation decoration photos I've seen.

I've just scratched my head for ages trying to figure out which building it reminded me of - definitely the Children's Hospital opposite Firth Court. It's not there, but it's what it reminds me of!!!!!

Reminded me of the old bit of the childrens.

HughW

14-07-2006, 23:43

This is the family at the Crown & Cushion in 1891 (George Buxton was still there in a directory in 1919/20):

1891 census
ref: piece 3825 e.d.5 folio 106
21 Old St (Crown & Cushion Hotel)

George BUXTON Head Marr 37 silversmith & licensed victualler YKS Sheffield
Jane BUXTON Wife Marr 39 YKS Sheffield
John BUXTON Son 13 errand boy YKS Sheffield
Thomas H BUXTON Son 11 scholar YKS Sheffield
Emily BUXTON Dau 5 YKS Sheffield
Ellen BUXTON Dau 3 YKS Sheffield
Minnie BUXTON Dau 1 YKS Sheffield

But looking at the 1901 OS map I can't see anything in Old Street that could match the photo.

I have looked at every instance of BUXTON in the 1911 White's directory at http://www.historicaldirectories.org. The only ones connected to this trade are the George above and a George H. who was victualler at the Brown Bear in Eckington.

Audrey, do you know the names of the four people in the photo? Do you have any later addresses for them?

Hugh

TheRedWizard

15-07-2006, 01:38

I think we're agreed about it being for the coronation, and therefore the GR and crown is no help in sorting out the location.

Are we sure it was in use as a hotel - it may have had the inscription but doesn't mean it was being used as such (or had been for years).

I'm going to go and stare at it again for a while!

TheRedWizard

15-07-2006, 01:58

http://www.picturesheffield.com/cgi-bin/picturesheffield.pl?_cgifunction=form&_layout=picturesheffield&keyval=sheff.refno=s07362

is similar, another hospital, on west st, close but definitely not right - helpful re the architecture though....

Mandem

15-07-2006, 17:34

pietro

15-07-2006, 17:49

Don't know if this is any help in finding the building but in a earlier thread Audrey mentions another photo she has of the family in the doorway of the hotel.

I have uploaded the photo for her, take a look below.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/wharncliffe/hawthorn85_681380.jpg

Mandem

18-07-2006, 15:13

Come on people, dont let this fall into oblivion, I am desperate to know where it is, my last question to Audrey was, if she was sure it was Sheffield, and if she is how? This information could help.

Dawdie

18-07-2006, 15:53

Hi Mandem
Dont worry as soon as I get any concrete information on this Hotel,i will post it on the site.
I cant be absolutely positive its Sheffield,I'm only assuming as the family were Sheffielder's and living here in 1901.If they did move they certainly came back at some stage.
So many people with an interest in Sheffield have been involved in this quest that if it turns out not to be in sheffield lots of us will be disappointed.
At the moment I am waiting for a Forum member who is trying to enhance the Street name which should give us a clue.I cant make it out but there is apparently a Tetley sign on the lamp above the doorway.
I will post as soon as I know something.
Thanks to everyone for their input and interest
Audrey

Mandem

18-07-2006, 17:03

Strix

18-07-2006, 19:17

Right, so we know it's decorated for the coronation - doesn't really help

It's a Tetley premises - so it's at least a pub, but at that size it's unlikely it isn't a hotel.

It's on the corner of a short street name

the guessing part....
It looks like it's in the side street behind a much bigger building - as that looks like the side entrance to something like a theatre or picture house - although, is that a shop on the corner?

Does that help anybody?

If this is up a side street, that may explain the apparently flat geography of the street - across a hill? the main building that we can see the side of being on a slope?

Strix

18-07-2006, 19:30

Has anybody looked at the citysnapper website?

GrinderBloke

18-07-2006, 20:21

It's a Tetley premises - so it's at least a pub, but at that size it's unlikely it isn't a hotel.

Were Joshua Tetleys ales available in Sheffield at the time?

Breweries traditionally supplied a much smaller geographic area than they do today. Could we be looking at an Hotel in Leeds or perhaps somewhere north of Sheffield, Wakefield for example?

Just my two peneth

peterw

18-07-2006, 20:22

I have the picture from Audrey and from what we have seen so far it was (maybe still is) a Tetley House. The name is above the door. Got the picture turned around to face us but at the moment the street name is indistinct. The G and R plus some exterior light bulbs show us that it was indeed to celebrate King George’s accession to the throne in 1910. Currently tarting the picture up a LOT! Hope to eventually get the street name but it will take time, it’s very bad picture.

Tetley’s, I am sure, could shed some light on it — but I don’t think the building is (was) in Sheffield. It is stood alone, with a street running to the left and another running to the right. Very imposing in its day, I would think. No overhead tram wires.

peterw

18-07-2006, 20:40

Looking to the left, above, there is what could be a carving in the wall which at the moment looks like a lad carrying either a “Shoulder of Mutton” or a Bale of Wool, either of which could be a clue to its original name. The name Tetley (not Hotel) is above the portal, not on one of the lamps.

Falls

18-07-2006, 21:35

Hi,

I don't think there were many - if any - Tetley pubs in Sheffield in 1910-12.

I don't think that Tetley's arrive in Sheffield until they bought out Duncan Gilmour's brewery, sometime (I'm guessing) in the early 1950s.

Regards

Cliffhanger

18-07-2006, 21:43

Tetley's - much more likely to be Leeds area back then. That would fit with the Bales of Wool theory too. Or maybe Bradford, but not sure Tetley's would stretch even that far in those days.

peterw

18-07-2006, 23:16

For our sins, we work through the night here in Manchester where one of my colleagues has just come up with a ‘plausible theory’. We just haven’t the time to trawl the web for it — if indeed it exists — but my colleague has the idea that the picture might be that of the early Tetley’s main offices! He believes that even in 1910 the place was a ‘bit tatty’ for an hotel.

We sleep during the day, so if someone would volunteer to have a look on the web in that direction we might be getting somewhere!

Strix

19-07-2006, 00:58

GrinderBloke

19-07-2006, 16:35

I've spent loads of time today searching the net for old pictures / engravings of breweries in the Leeds, Bradford, Huddersfield area.

Sadly I didn't find anything which looked like the building we are trying to track down :(

peterw

19-07-2006, 22:46

will a map of a more suitable era help with the street name?
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~engsheffield/photos/streets/streetrelated/1890smap.htm

And another possible red herring - but I'll let the experts decide ;) .....

If it's 1910ish, could that be a Tetley Tea room?

Isn't there a photographer's name on this pic somewhere? Can somebody look him up in Kelly's?

Tea room? Another very plausible theory worth checking out, but it seems a bit on the large size for a tea room. However, I’ve got time on my hands until 12.30am so I’ll check it now and get back to you when I can.

Strix

19-07-2006, 22:51

Will the lettering of 'Tetley' point us in either the tea or beer direction?

Strix

19-07-2006, 22:55

What does the shop sell, and can the crest in that gable be made out?

I still think that this 'hotel' is in a minor street, and that the building we're looking at the side of may be easier to track down

Falls

21-07-2006, 14:59

Hello,

Before we give up on this one altogether, there is one other thing we might try. A long shot I know.

The photo posted by HughW (post#28) showed the Behive Hotel (?) on West Street. The similarity between the Behive and the building in Audery's photo was uncanny.

Although some of the details on the facade are different, could they have been designed by the same Architect? Often architects stayed with the same general theme from building to building but just change a few details.

If we knew who designed the Behive, is it possible to find out what other buildings they designed and where? Just a thought.

Regards

never wrong

21-07-2006, 15:17

I Have studied the picture and I Believe that this may be The Griffin hotel on Boar Lane Leeds the frontage was modernised in the twenties

GrinderBloke

21-07-2006, 16:24

I Have studied the picture and I Believe that this may be The Griffin hotel on Boar Lane Leeds the frontage was modernised in the twenties

Here is a picture of Boar Lane c1900, with possibly the hotel on the LH side:

http://www.mightyleeds.co.uk/images/boarlane1900.jpg

Here is a far more recent picture:

http://www.lookingatbuildings.org.uk/img_hr/griffinhotel.jpg

Anything to keep interest going

HughW

21-07-2006, 16:39

Hello,
The photo posted by HughW (post#28) showed the Behive Hotel (?) on West Street. The similarity between the Behive and the building in Audery's photo was uncanny.

The Beehive Hotel is the building in the foreground. The building that resembles the mystery hotel is something else, in the background. I have a feeling it may still be there?! ..where there used to be a car hire place ?!

Hugh

GrinderBloke

21-07-2006, 16:46

The Beehive Hotel is the building in the foreground. The building that resembles the mystery hotel is something else, in the background. I have a feeling it may still be there?! ..where there used to be a car hire place ?!

Hugh

Was that Kennings? They has a place on both side of West Street in the 1970s. See to recall it became a Lucas or Lex "Auto Centre" in the 1980s.

And I agree that the tall building in your photo does look very similar to the building we are trying to identify.

Strix

21-07-2006, 23:10

Hello,

Before we give up on this one altogether, there is one other thing we might try. A long shot I know.
........

If we knew who designed the Behive, is it possible to find out what other buildings they designed and where? Just a thought.

Regards

I was wondering about taking this route, although I still think we have a better chance of finding a front view (or architect) of the building we're looking at the side of, than finding another picture of the 'hotel' in question.

here's the Leeds version of picturesheffield, for anybody else who wants to play:
http://www.leodis.net/default.aspx

And if anybody can see if it's still standing in Sheffield:
http://www.webbaviation.co.uk/sheffield/aerial-sheffield.jpg

Strix

21-07-2006, 23:52

What are the 'music hall connections' Audrey?

Could it be that they are staying at this hotel whilst performing at a music hall (possibly the building to the left of the picture)?

peterw

22-07-2006, 00:52

We’ve been looking too, and found almost identical windows at the British Protection, a pub in Manchester owned by Holt’s Brewery. Having noted the tea room suggestion my lads tend to agree — it could well be. Look at the ground floor windows, which have white curtains. But on Tetley Tea’s website we find that their main aim was to supply tea to hotels and tea gardens.

The photo really is in a bad condition. We’re having difficulty even tracing its outline! Like I said, we can clearly see ‘Tetley’ but there is no indication towards tea. On the other hand we can also see — just! — the lad carrying either a shoulder of mutton or a bale of wool, and this, we feel, does indicate either a public-house or an hotel, with a name. Shoulder of Mutton? Woolpack? We don’t know — yet! There is certainly no name visible on the photograph, but from what we can see of the street name it appears to have four letters, and three letters;
probably something Row?

Strix

22-07-2006, 00:55

So the lettering doesn't give the game away as to whether it's tea or beer then?

Do you have an enhanced version you can post now Peter?

Strix

22-07-2006, 02:32

The Beehive Hotel is the building in the foreground. The building that resembles the mystery hotel is something else, in the background. I have a feeling it may still be there?! ..where there used to be a car hire place ?!

Hugh
is this the one you mean? http://citysnapper.org/chantrey/sheffield/photos1/2002011609westst.jpg

Falls

22-07-2006, 16:44

is this the one you mean? [url]]

Thats a great photo. I think the building HughW suggested, and we have been talking about, is further along that block.

Looks like its two or three buildings after the pedestrian crossing. Its the building with the high gable end.

Falls

Mandem

22-07-2006, 18:22

It can't really be any of those buildings, in Stix's photo because the original building has bay windows on the first floor, and none of those buildings have.

Cliffhanger

22-07-2006, 20:23

Looking at the the large gable end on the left - the carving looks a bit like a sheepskin rug? Could the hotel therefore be called the Fleece? Or is this the carving which was enhanced earlier, and is boy carrying something?

RiffRaff

22-07-2006, 20:50

Falls....and others....
2 or 3 doors down from the crossing in the photo would (from memory) leave us in the region of the Hallamshire Hotel/Huttons Buildings on West Street....
I used to work in the travel agency (ground floor, Hutons Buildings, No 148 I think)....
All "similar" architecture, true enough....

HughW

22-07-2006, 22:22

is this the one you mean? http://citysnapper.org/chantrey/sheffield/photos1/2002011609westst.jpg

The building in the foreground is undoubtedly the one in the Beehive photo (http://www.picturesheffield.com/jpgh/s00095.jpg), which means I was wrong about where on West Street it was (in fact, isn't this Glossop Road here?). In the Beehive photo the building to the right in the above photo (the pub/bar with the sky blue front) seems to be set back relative to the one on the left (as in the mystery photo) but this is an illusion, because the narrow building in between (with the post office/newsagent) was not there (and there is a hoarding).

Hugh

Strix

22-07-2006, 22:54

It can't really be any of those buildings, in Stix's photo because the original building has bay windows on the first floor, and none of those buildings have.
Somebody hasn't read the whole thread :rolleyes:

the speculation is: the building next to the Beehive has the same style as the one we're looking at from Audrey, so can we identify an architect, and see what else he designed.

I provided this photo to clarify a building that wasn't as clear in a black and white pic provided earlier

Mandem

23-07-2006, 10:35

Somebody hasn't read the whole thread :rolleyes:

the speculation is: the building next to the Beehive has the same style as the one we're looking at from Audrey, so can we identify an architect, and see what else he designed.

I provided this photo to clarify a building that wasn't as clear in a black and white pic provided earlier
Sorry, I didn't realise you were comparing architects, I will read and take in next time.

lazarus

23-07-2006, 11:03

HughW

23-07-2006, 11:19

This building is not on West Street and its not the Beehive as the Beehive is only a two storey building. The building does resemble the one on the corner of Regent St/West St but there are glaring differences. I would go as far as to say its not even in Sheffield.

Sigh. Please read the whole thread. No-one has suggested these things and I think there is a consensus that it is probably not in Sheffield.

(edited to say: sorry if I sounded shirty, I just heard that the temperature will be back up in the 30's by midweek and my normal good humour has melted :help: )

Hugh

lazarus

23-07-2006, 11:35

Sigh. Please read the whole thread. No-one has suggested these things and I think there is a consensus that it is probably not in Sheffield.

(edited to say: sorry if I sounded shirty, I just heard that the temperature will be back up in the 30's by midweek and my normal good humour has melted :help: )

Hugh
So Sorry I didnt know that a reprimand was in order ! Double Sigh.

Plain Talker

23-07-2006, 12:08

I don't think we've hit on the right building, yet, unfortunately, although the detective work has been extensive.

The building from the pictures on the leeds websites is too tall, to be the building on the original photo.

the "l**ds building picture" -building (LP) is a good couple of storeys higher than the original pic, and the roofline is different, too, with the spiky dormer windows on the LP rather than the bell-curved shaped ones on the original.

Also, those buildings in the LP do not have a step-back in the building line, as the building in the original has.

The architecture will be broadly similar in style to each other, because they were built in the same timescale, using the same materials, methods and style, (just look at those beautiful buildings on West Street here in Sheffield)

PT

Falls

23-07-2006, 20:05

Hello,

In reflection, I think my suggestion that we try to identify the architect of the West Street building in the picture provided by HughW, and from there possibly the building in Audrey's photo, was a leap too far. Before we put this topic aside however, maybe there is on other thing we might try.

Just recapping, the consensus is that the building we a trying to identify may not be in Sheffield but there is strong evidence that it had some connection with Tetley's. Working on the assumption that this is Tetley's beer rather than tea, that should narrow the scope of the search to the area where Tetley's beer, etc. was available in 1910-12.

Taking the assumptions a little futher, we know that draught beer brewed in those days didn't travel too well on the transport vehicles of the day. Therefore, regular deliveries in those days would be very local - by horse drawn cart or lorry. (Lorries in 1910 couldn't travel very far either and still had solid rubber tyres which would also give the beer a shaking it didn't need.)

This tended to limit distribution to areas close to a brewery. We know there was a Tetley brewery in Leeds but were there ones in, say , Bradford, Huddersfield, etc.?

I know that a search has been made of the historic photos in these areas but perhaps not all the old photos have found their way into the various archives.

Does anyone know if the is an equivalent of Sheffield Forum in say Leeds, Bradford, Huddersfield, etc. where the hotel photo could be posted and get more people looking.

Just a thought

Falls

Strix

24-07-2006, 02:38

Does anyone know if the is an equivalent of Sheffield Forum in say Leeds, Bradford, Huddersfield, etc. where the hotel photo could be posted and get more people looking.
Ah, now there's a thing - SF is rather unique :(

There are forums for other cities, but you will probably find that there are more sheffielders are members on L**ds forum than there are L**ds inhabitants, thanks to a number of us finding somewhere else to 'play' when Geoff took this site down for the software upgrade.

Other city forums I've mooched about on seem to be inhabited by the 15-25 set, who are discussing the merits of the local nightlife :(

You can give it a go if you want though ;)

I think we can cover Leeds, Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester, Edinburgh, Glasgow, quite well from here ;)

Anybody know an architect (or student) we can consult?

Strix

24-07-2006, 02:40

And where has Audrey got to? :suspect:

Falls

24-07-2006, 13:45

Anybody know an architect (or student) we can consult?

This was also something that crossed my mind. If anyone knows an Architect or someone who works in an Architectural office. They may be able to advise has to how we might tap into the local (W.R. Yorkshire) architectural photo archives or provide useful contacts to historical societies who have large photo libraries of buildings, etc. There must be someone in one of the hist. soc. who would be interested in helping.

Falls

Strix

26-07-2006, 01:15

I've started a thread to look for one :thumbsup:

H.P

26-07-2006, 06:18

It reminds me of the childrens hospital buildng, almost identical

HughW

26-07-2006, 22:46

I finally remembered to take a look at the Kennings building - the gables are nothing like those in the mystery photo. The one in the photo Strix found is much more like the one we're interested in.

Here's a strange coincidence....there's another Dutch gable on the (former) Prudential building at the corner of Pinstone Street and St Paul's Parade. You can just about see it here at PictureSheffield (http://www.picturesheffield.com/jpgh/s18849.jpg), with the Tower of St Paul's Church in the foreground, and also here (http://www.lookingatbuildings.org.uk/default.asp?Document=3.V.5&Image=911&gst=)

I know who designed that building...It was one of a series of provincial offices designed for the Prudential Assurance Company by Alfred Waterhouse (or at least by his Architectural practice). Alfred was the architect of the Natural History Museum in South Kensington and of Manchester Town Hall. He also did Prudential offices in Leeds (A picture (http://www.leodis.net/imagesLeodis/screen/60/200434_83025760.jpg) from the Leeds site mentioned earlier), not to mention Bradford (http://www.huntersnet.co.uk/images/prudential%20chambers%202%20-%20large.jpg), and Nottingham (http://www.artandarchitecture.org.uk/assets/aa_image/700/c/0/8/e/c08e633f7c02d253ed488f0f9d50b20a6054873b).

He also designed some hotels but they all seem huge and elaborate compared to the mystery one. But an interesting style comparison.

(Alfred Waterhouse was a 1st cousin of my gtgtGrandfather)

Hugh

Strix

27-07-2006, 01:23

Hugh!! You're a star!!

That Leeds pic looks disturbingly like a building on the road down to the Liverbuildings (with all the banks on) in Liverpool (although I could be mistaken ;) )

And I still think we're effectively looking at the side of a very grand and important building in Audreys' picture.

Can nobody shed any light on that shop window on the corner that's so unclear in the link?

Can anybody add to Hugh's info? :)

Edit: http://www.lmu.livjm.ac.uk/lhol/content.aspx?itemid=400
http://arch.designcommunity.com/forum-15.html

HughW

27-07-2006, 11:53

If every town had a site like This one (http://www.wiganmbc.gov.uk/pub/planning/pdfs/Leigh_Town_Trail.pdf) (from Leigh) we'd be laughing :D Good on architectural vocabulary. It seems the gables in the hotel are definitely 'Dutch' gables because they have the pediment on the top as well as the curved sides.

Hugh

Strix

30-07-2006, 01:42

Is SF now bored with this game? :suspect:

never wrong

30-07-2006, 09:07

Far from bored I cannot wait for a solution I HAVE SPENT HOURS looking for a answer keep it going for god,s sake

GrinderBloke

30-07-2006, 09:09

Far from bored I cannot wait for a solution I HAVE SPENT HOURS looking for a answer keep it going for god,s sake

I agree, I'm waiting for more suggestions so I can do a bit more searching.

The answer is out there, somewhere.

Mandem

31-07-2006, 00:12

I agree, I'm waiting for more suggestions so I can do a bit more searching.

The answer is out there, somewhere.
Probably Audreyf could shed a bit more light on the subject, has anyone asked what the connection Carver St and Paradise Street has to do with the photograph.

Strix

31-07-2006, 02:43

Paradise Square 2003 (http://citysnapper.org/dm/sheff2003/03/2003032701paradisesq.jpg)

HughW

31-07-2006, 08:45

Retep posted the 1891 census data on page 2 of the thread - in Paradise Street rather than Square (maybe they were in the Square at another time).

Here is the family in Carver Street in 1881:

1881 census
PRO Ref RG11 Piece 4630 Folio 27
58 Carver St
(Ecclesall Bierlow)

Charles BUXTON Hea Marr 35 Barman (Inn) Sheffield
Margaret BUXTON Wife Marr 35 Manchester LAN
James E. BUXTON Son 9 Scholar Manchester LAN
George H. BUXTON Son 7 Scholar Sheffield
Susanah LUNAN Boarder Marr 29 Annuitant Chester CHS
Welsby LEMON Boarder Marr 32 Music Hall Artist (Performer) Bedford BDF
Mary S. LEMON Boarders Wife Marr 27 Music Hall Artist (Performer) Liverpool LAN
Samuel STRINGER Boarder Marr 28 Music Hall Artist (Performer) Liverpool LAN
Samuel REDDEN Boarder Wid 45 Music Hall Artist (Performer) London MDX
Ellen REDDEN Boarders Daur Unm 15 Music Hall Artist (Performer) London MDX

Thinks - in both those census years there are Music Hall artistes as lodgers - Maybe they were particular fans of the Music Hall. Could there be a music hall nearby in the photo ?!

Here's a coincidence - I believe this pub was called The Royal George! (usually listed as 60 Carver St, but no. 58 probably part of the same premises).

But it isn't the one in the photo. From PictureSheffield this is the Royal George (http://www.picturesheffield.com/jpgh/s14147.jpg) (description: Carver Street looking towards Wellington Street; including No 60, Royal George). Not sure if it's the white-fronted building?!

Hugh
(ps what a name! 'Welsby Lemon')

Strix

31-07-2006, 14:23

Having used all the most unlikely search strings for PictureSheffield, and having manually ploughed through about 6 years worth of CitySnapper, I'm coming to the conclusion that this hotel isn't in Sheffield.

Those railings are stopping people from falling into the dug-out for the basement windows, and I just cannot find any area in Sheffield with that sort of building. Leeds and Liverpool have this sort of arrangement frequently, but it just doesn't feature in our city.

My original suspicion was that it was somwhere between the (realtively new) City Hall and West Street, but the buildings demolished to make way for the city hall were more basic in style, and the building I remembered with the blonde stripe round it on West Street I have finally found a photo of, and that isn't it (I think it's now Walkabout)

With the music hall connections, I'm wondering whether this photo was taken whilst away at a music hall in another town/city. I still think we should be looking at the building this hotel is behind.

Peter, do you have a better resolution/more enhanced version you can upload for us? Is there no photographer's name on the photo (unusual if not)

Plain Talker

31-07-2006, 15:33

I think we are doing extremely well in our detective work, strix, for amateurs. :thumbsup:

the "building with the blond stripe" you are thinking of, that's now Walkabout bar was the 1802 Carver Street Methodist Chapel. A beautiful, well-used and well-loved church, until the congregations usiing it were sold down the river. grrr! ;) (sorry, rant over!)

Mandem

31-07-2006, 22:18

I have passed the photograph of the hotel to an eldery chap who researches old hotels/inns etc. his immediate reaction on looking at the photograph was, 'thats more West Yorkshire, than Sheffield'. He is fairly sure he can pinpoint it, and will let me know.

Dawdie

01-08-2006, 15:18

Hi Everyone
I'm back at last and truly amazed at the interest and time everyone has put in trying to identify this Hotel.A big thank you to everyone but I'm also beginning to think the building is not in Sheffield.
My connection to this photo is the Charles Buxton in the 1881 census that Hugh posted is my husband's Gt Grandfather.His son George was his Grandfather. George's youngest child Rose was a talented pianist although she could'nt read music,maybe a skill she learned from the lodgers. The photo was from her collection[sadly she died a few weeks ago]
I urge everyone to date and identify their photo's for future generations.I have many old sepia photo's many from Victorian times but just dont know who they are other than they are family.
audreyf

Nigel Womersle

01-08-2006, 23:16

My thought's are the same as Hugh's, the letters and crown look more like decorations.

I agree with that. It is GR - George Rex. The coronation of King George 5 and Queen Mary.

suesmith

03-08-2006, 17:45

Dear All

We also have another forum looking for our mystery hotel.
May introduce St Helens connect
www.sthelens-connect.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=28531
They have the same photo too.

Sue

Strix

03-08-2006, 21:50

Ooooookkkkkkk, that's interesting :suspect: Sorry, you need to be a registered member with more than one post to read the topics in this forum..

Give us a clue how they're getting on Sue :)
Anything we should know?

Mandem

04-08-2006, 15:38

Looks like we are going to have to go Nationwide with this, it really could be anywhere, I am getting really frustrated with this, what if we never find out, that would be awful.

suesmith

04-08-2006, 22:07

St Helens are not sure either. Knowing that we have a picture in Sheffield has really made them look further.

Didnt the origonal photo have something written on the back?

Local studies has had loads of us asking about the same photo they think it is definately not in Sheffield or Rotherham.

Keep looking
Sue

Nigel Womersle

05-08-2006, 00:11

peterw

05-08-2006, 00:45

We’ve been quite busy this past couple of weeks and have had very little time to look at the print in greater detail. We’re not actually sure that this is possible. It’s seen a lot of wear and tear and, as you’ve probably noticed, the streets on either side are badly worn and we are unable to pick up any worthwhile pixels in order to outline it. Same with parts of the roof and some of the chimney stacks. We’ve turned it round in a bid to see whether the lad we spoke of was carrying a pack of wool or a leg of lamb, but that’s not clear either.

It seems likely that at some time in its long life this picture was exposed to water!

Some time next week we hope to begin tarting it up, which is going to be quite difficult because of the angle at which the picture was taken. For example, we intend trying to replace the first floor window on the right, with the window to the left of it. Trouble is, because of the angle of photography the window to the left, which in reality would have been exactly the same size, is a good deal smaller than its neighbour on the right.

We’ll have to try taking that window into another piece of software, and juggling around with it until we’ve got it to the size it should be. Not too difficult, but it takes time and a lot of patience.

It’s going to take time, but Audrey will eventually have better print than the one she’s got — but with still no means of identification other than the ‘Tetley’ above the main doors. The street in front of it, by the way, looks like a dirt road. It is definitely not cobbled and there are no overhead tram wires so it was probably a bit off the beaten track.

Did anyone check with Joshua Tetley’s, by the way?

Sorry to have been so long in coming back to you.

HughW

05-08-2006, 08:57

If the pub is The Royal George in Carver Street, then it is the one that Bill Broadhead, the instigator of trhe Sheffield Outrages in the 1860's kept.

From the image I found on PictureSheffield it definitely isn't this pub. It was much smaller than the mystery hotel. Just a coincidence in the name considering the decoration on Audrey's hotel. :) The link is the family. The people in front of the larger establishment are believed to be members of this BUXTON family.

Hugh :)

Titian

05-08-2006, 09:02

Are we still looking at this photo?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/wharncliffe/UnknownHotel.jpg

Because it looks to me very much like the town hall (the view from Surrey street)

Has someone already said that?

HughW

05-08-2006, 09:22

Audrey - are there any BMDs for this family from c1910-13 which might give a clue to where they were ?!

My fear about this avenue of research is that, maybe they were on holiday, or a licensed victuallers' outing :rolleyes:

Hugh :)

Geezer

05-08-2006, 11:38

1910 Directory shows a George Buxton vict. Crown & Cushion, 21 Old St, Park.

Only possible related BMD I found was a George Harry BUXTON, died q3 1906 age 0, 9c 316 in Sheffield.
Could have been the son of the George Harry from this thread, people did tend to name the children after parents a lot.

HughW

05-08-2006, 12:57

...it looks to me very much like the town hall (the view from Surrey street)

This (http://www.picturesheffield.com/jpgh/s19705.jpg) is a view of that side of the Town Hall. There is the same 'feel' to the architecture, but significant differences. :(

Hugh :help:

Titian

05-08-2006, 13:55

This (http://www.picturesheffield.com/jpgh/s19705.jpg) is a view of that side of the Town Hall. There is the same 'feel' to the architecture, but significant differences. :(

Hugh :help:

Yeah, I saw that after you posted the link to that site, it is quite different isn't it. It must be somewhere I have seen as it looks so familiar.

Greybeard

05-08-2006, 18:09

This (http://www.picturesheffield.com/jpgh/s19705.jpg) is a view of that side of the Town Hall. There is the same 'feel' to the architecture, but significant differences. :(

Hugh :help:

The architectural style of the OP's photo I think was known as 'mock Flemish' (or something similar). Very popular in the late 19th. century and is/was echoed in many institutional as well as private buildings in Sheffield and other large cities. Much of the old NGH,Royal and Jessops hosptals had similar elements.

Persomally I don't think the building is/was in Sheffield, it's hard to believe a photo of such a striking ediface didn't make t into the SCL picture archive, - but then I'm not certain that the whole of that is available via the web site.

suesmith

06-08-2006, 10:34

Dear all

Just posted on Liverpool forum and Manchester forum about mystery hotel.

We'll have to sit and wait.

Sue

Strix

06-08-2006, 14:50

I'm fascinated by the curves of the leadwork roof to one of the bays.Much of this sort of work was identifiable as attributable to specific regions or craftsmen, and having trawled both Leeds and Sheffield archive photos, and having lived in Liverpool and Glasgow, I'm tempted to believe the style is more 'North West' than 'Yorkshire'.

The building appears to be redbrick (look really hard at the area surrounding and above the decorations)
It's adornment appears to be blonde sandstone
It has a basement level
It is to the rear of a shop
which most likely means it's in a sidestreet
the street name is short

Other 'locally identifiable' items would include the stained glass windows, the cast iron work of the downpipes (Peter, can you see the crest on the top of the downspot better than we can?) and the ornamentation of the stonework above the bay windows and to the roofline

Can anybody hazzard a guess as to it's location from similar buildings in another town?

*goes to look at Stockport somewhere on the net*

Strix

06-08-2006, 15:45

*crosses Stockport and Bolton off list and goes to see neighbour who's a stonemason*

Falls

06-08-2006, 16:50

The architectural style of the OP's photo I think was known as 'mock Flemish' (or something similar). Very popular in the late 19th. century and is/was echoed in many institutional as well as private buildings in Sheffield and other large cities.

Hi,

The style of the gable end definitely came from the Low Countries. Amsterdam is full of old buildings with this detail. Some of the old Merchant's combined house/warehouses, from the 16th/17th century, have really fancy gables.

Regards

never wrong

06-08-2006, 16:59

way off the building is not in amsterdam

Falls

06-08-2006, 23:03

way off the building is not in amsterdam

I never said the hotel was in Amsterdam. Just that the Netherlands is probably were the archectural style was "nicked" (sorry, copied) from.

Regards

Strix

07-08-2006, 03:50

:roll:

Don't you love it when somebody can't be bothered to read a thread, so just posts half a piece of info somebody else provided earlier :roll:

And there was me hoping that we were getting somewhere :suspect:

PS - the stonemason wasn't home :(

Strix

07-08-2006, 23:34

Well, I've consulted said stonemason, who doesn't recognise it immediately, but confirms it is of a Sheffield style, though the stained glass isn't 'local looking'. His money is actually on Leeds too, although he did mention Attercliffe as worth exploring, and the area round Campo lane, which fits in with the Paradise Square location

He has been bitten by the bug though, and has taken a paper copy of the photo away with him, so maybe he'll be able to report back something useful soon :)

Strix

08-08-2006, 02:23

from another post on another thread, but an interesting site for this thread too:
http://www.webbaviation.co.uk/yorkshire_gallery.htm

HughW

09-08-2006, 17:01

I was noticing today the fancy Dutch gables on some buildings on Pinstone Street, the block that includes HSBC. One of them has the date 1884 on it. I can't find a good picture (photographers were fixated by St Paul's Church!).

Earlier I referred to the 'Kennings' Building on West Street - officially it's the Cavendish Building.

Hugh

Nigel Womersle

09-08-2006, 17:30

Could it be the old Grand Hotel, in Leopold Street? It is more like an hotel than a pub.

Strix

10-08-2006, 03:00

I was noticing today the fancy Dutch gables on some buildings on Pinstone Street, the block that includes HSBC. One of them has the date 1884 on it. I can't find a good picture (photographers were fixated by St Paul's Church!).
You may get a better view of these on the citysnapper website - as they are still standing

Strix

10-08-2006, 03:05

Could it be the old Grand Hotel, in Leopold Street? It is more like an hotel than a pub.
http://www.picturesheffield.com/jpgh/s00171.jpg
Doesn't look promising

Nigel Womersle

12-08-2006, 00:15

Strix

12-08-2006, 00:57

We've established that it doesn't say 'Hotel' but it does say 'Tetley'

Edit: I'm wrong, it says 'Hotel' above the door, and 'tetley' on the lamp according to Audrey's later post :blush:

Nigel Womersle

12-08-2006, 23:40

http://www.picturesheffield.com/jpgh/s00171.jpg
Doesn't look promising

No, on second thoughts you are right - it doesn't.

Nigel Womersle

13-08-2006, 23:26

Far from bored I cannot wait for a solution I HAVE SPENT HOURS looking for a answer keep it going for god,s sake

I am in Ecclesfield village too, so that's two of us still interested.

Dawdie

14-08-2006, 15:29

Hi
It does say Hotel over the door.The word Tetley is on the lamp over the door.A kind person enhanced the picture to find this out although I know its not very clear by the naked eye.
Audrey

never wrong

15-08-2006, 18:57

Just to refresh the thread I have exhausted the sheffield area and I stated before maybe not in sheffield Huddersfield may be a possible and a long shot Edinburgh dont let this one defeat us come on keep trying give us the clues

Mandem

15-08-2006, 19:36

Anyone thought it could be the sea side? I have been searching all over the country, I have done Liverpool, Manchester, Bradford, Southport, I have even tried Glasgow, but nothing, but come on folks keep it up!!

Strix

15-08-2006, 22:38

I could be wrong, but this Dutch or Flemish style of architecture is less likely to be Scottish - as they seem to favour a more French style. And the redbrick/buff sandstone is less likely to be Scottish too

I didn't say it was impossible though ;)

Fowler

23-08-2006, 08:23

Has everyone given up on this?

I'm sure that some one must know where it is......

Nigel Womersle

23-08-2006, 23:19

Hi,

The style of the gable end definitely came from the Low Countries. Amsterdam is full of old buildings with this detail. Some of the old Merchant's combined house/warehouses, from the 16th/17th century, have really fancy gables.

Regards

I doubt if an hotel in Amsterdam would be decorated for the coronation of George V and Queen Mary.

Strix

24-08-2006, 00:51

I must remember to ask my neighbour if he's managed to glean any morsel of info for us to investigate further :(

HughW

24-08-2006, 01:28

Again, nobody has suggested this is anywhere but in this country. We are only trying to understand the architecture of the building.

Here (http://ah.phpwebhosting.com/a/DCTNRY/amstergables/index.html) are lots of gables in Amsterdam (from an excellent American site).

It looks like the gable on the hotel is a 'bell' gable. Also on this site I found that the curved elements above the doors are "swan's neck" mouldings. (but maybe you all knew that already :D )

You can see the same design element above a window on the Cavendish building (http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/6035/cavendishbuildingmiddlesection1919fx6.jpg) (West Street). Above that is a broken pediment gable with a cartouche and festoon.

Hugh

HughW

24-08-2006, 02:10

Some more Dutch gables in Sheffield, snapped today:

Prudential building (http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/9564/prudentialbuildingpinstonestreetgw4.jpg) (Pinstone Street).
Pinstone Chambers (http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/294/pinstonechamberslc7.jpg) (Pinstone Street).
Pinstone Street (http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/4866/pinstonestreetlh3.jpg)
North Church Street (http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/3263/northchurchstreetat5.jpg).
Figtree Lane (http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/9342/figtreelanezn5.jpg).
Town Hall (http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/910/townhallsurreystreethl4.jpg) (Surrey Street).
Fargate (http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/5682/fargate1879mk1.jpg).

Hugh

Yellowrose

24-08-2006, 09:03

I am really fascinated by this. I read the first page and thought Royal Hospital West Street, as I used to work there, but I have read further and realise its just similarities in the architecture. But everytime I see it I am taken back to walking home into town from the Royal. Its just obviously the style and the period.

Keep it up, its intriguing!

suesmith

24-08-2006, 21:20

Having a bit of a problem walking round Sheffield now. I keep walking into people as I am looking up at the architecture all the time. There are some beautiful buildings in Sheffield that we walk past all the time because we are too busy looking at the corporate shops below.

Thank you for this wonderful look into the past we have all around us, if we could just look past the usual rubbish we see every day.:thumbsup:

Sue

Nigel Womersle

25-08-2006, 12:30

Audrey, have you thought of sending a copy of the photo to John Highfield at The Star. He is very helpful and just might include it in the paper for you.

Also what about Calendar and Look North? It's worth a try. They can only say yes or no.

Regards
Nigel

standonowl

25-08-2006, 15:45

Falls

25-08-2006, 16:39

what about sending a copy of the photo to the tetley brewery in leeds as it was obviously a tetley pub at the time the photo was taken. surely they must have some historical section that might be able to help.

I tried something like this last week. There are a series of links to Tetley's, its history, etc. but I didn't see anything that might lead me to a section I needed; however, I might of missed the necessary connection. As you all know, the brewery is still in Leeds but Tetley's doesn't exist any more. It's now part of the Carlserg Brewing organization.

Finding a list of the pubs once owned by Tetley's might not be the answer anyway- remember, there were 500 of them by 1950. In any event, the building on Audrey's photo looks more like a residential hotel which happened to sell Tetley products, not a pub owned by Tetley. They must have sold a lot of beer, to hotels, shops, etc. that they didn't own.

Lastly, I spent a complete afternoon trawling through every tourist- related site I could find that gave listings of hotels in West Yorkshire. I have to tell you that there are some wonderful old hotels out there with gorgeous architectural details but I didn't find the one we are all looking for.

Falls

happyhippy

25-08-2006, 18:11

Have to say this is fascinating thread! I wonder if there is a Leeds/W.Yorks equivalent to this ......

http://www.sheffieldpubs.fsnet.co.uk/

I agree it's not likely to be a pub (especially in Sheffield, due to the brewery), as such, but there are some photos on here of long gone hostelries; there maybe the same sort of thing for Leeds.

suesmith

28-08-2006, 08:37

Dear All

No one seems to know on the Leeds forum or the Manchester Forum but they dont have many members.

Strix are you folllowing me? Just spotted you on Leeds forum.:hihi:

Sue

Strix

28-08-2006, 19:30

Well I'm still having the occasional prod about on buildings websites, but no geographical ones seem to come close to Picturesheffield, or Citysnapper.

PS - I've been a member of Leeds forum since SF got it's new look and was offline for a few days. The tweaking they've done is a bit of a nuisance though :(

Nigel Womersle

31-08-2006, 00:01

I have just discovered that Tetley Tea has no connection whatsoever with Tetley Beers.

docmel

31-08-2006, 08:56

I have just discovered that Tetley Tea has no connection whatsoever with Tetley Beers.

No - they do taste quite different, don't they?

Joanl

31-08-2006, 09:09

You know, it's a few years since I was in Sheffield but every time I look at that photo, my mind goes to a small road that went off, at an angle, from Leopold St. Coming from town towards West street is it, on the right.....think there was a pub on the corner and a sweet shop if my memory is in the right place. Don't know why but it just draws me to there everytime I've looked.

Arfer Mo

31-08-2006, 22:54

Can we see a photo of the town hall from union st

Nigel Womersle

31-08-2006, 23:13

No - they do taste quite different, don't they?

Sorry, I have never tasted them so I have no idea. It wasn't the taste I was interested in - just the connection. Sorry I am unable to help you on that.

GrinderBloke

01-09-2006, 00:18

Joanl

01-09-2006, 16:19

Are you thinking of Orchard Lane / Orchard Place, I think that is/was the name of the street you describe.

I thought that at first but then got to thinking that was the other side. Oh :huh: ,,thanks anyway. I think your right.

Falls

02-09-2006, 00:40

Hello,

We have all been looking at Audrey's photo for sometime without much success. Maybe its time to try something a little different.

Without wanting to get anybody's hopes up (or make a total fool of myself into the bargain) , might I suggest that we concentrate only on the gable part of the building, on the left.

The part on the left looks somewhat familiar to me but I cannot for the life of me say were it is. May be its just similar to another building I have seen. On the other hand, the main part of the hotel doesn't register with me at all.

Is it also possible that the building only had that appearance for a short time. That the part on the left survived longer, say into the 1940's or later, than the main part of the hotel. Perhaps the main part disappeared earlier, because of a fire or bombing or had some radical alterations. Just a thought.

I know that we have tried looking in West Yorkshire, to the west of Leeds but nothing has shown up yet. Has anyone looked to the north: perhaps Harrogate? Or how about to the east to York. I'm just thinking of the places where I have spent some time and might have seen such a building. Leeds for one.

As a child and young adult, I spent a lot of time in Scarborough which also had one or two fine buildings; however Scarborough is long way from Leeds, and Tetley's Brewery. Could it be on Baxtergate or Skinner Street in Whitby? Also a long way from Leeds.

Regards

Nigel Womersle

04-09-2006, 10:27

A work colleague has shown this picture to a friend who lives in Wakefield. He thinks it is on a side street (name not known) in Leeds. Looking at the building from left to right, he believes the shop is now a hardware shop and the next part of the building is now Yates Wine Lodge. He believes the hotel part of the building is no longer there or the frontage has changed dramatically. Is anyone who lives in Leeds able to go and see please? Sorry, but we do not know the name of the street. It needs someone with local knowledge to follow through please. Someone who knows where Yates Wine Lodge is.

Regards N

PS I have just been told that Yates Wine Lodge is in Woodhouse Lane, Leeds.

Strix

05-09-2006, 10:00

Oh wow!! a new lead!!

Edit: Is there more than one Yates's in Leeds?
http://www.citikey.com/business/10094610?category=30016&city=Leeds&current=10&feature=Air+Conditioning&total=18
Looks like it could be in the right neighbourhood though

Edit: yes, but this isn't it either :(
http://www.citikey.com/business/10087558?all=yates&city=Leeds&current=2&total=2

Strix

05-09-2006, 10:17

Ahhhh, it's not a Yates's, it's a Rat & Parrot your friend is thinking of ;)
http://www.leodis.org/display.aspx?id=2002227_40728396

*goes to compare the two photos*

Strix

05-09-2006, 10:19

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/wharncliffe/UnknownHotel.jpg
http://www.leodis.org/display.aspx?id=2002227_40728396
from the other angle: http://www.leodis.org/display.aspx?resourceIdentifier=2002125_49216861&DISPLAY=FULL

Nope :(
The only real similarity is the set-back position and the railings :(

never wrong

05-09-2006, 10:29

this getting beyond a joke we must be able to find it some where

Strix

05-09-2006, 10:58

The fact that Audrey has not been back to this thread makes me suspicious that she has found her answer elsewhere, but we're still looking :suspect:

Nigel Womersle

05-09-2006, 12:31

Ahhhh, it's not a Yates's, it's a Rat & Parrot your friend is thinking of ;)
http://www.leodis.org/display.aspx?id=2002227_40728396

*goes to compare the two photos*

Oh dear, another false lead. You are quite right neither picture bears the slightest resemblance to our mystery pub. Audrey could be on holiday, or she could have lost interest. However, I for one would still like to know what the mystery building is/was. We've done too much just to let it go.

Cliffhanger

06-09-2006, 19:40

Been away from this one for a while. Anyone sent Audrey a PM to see if she's found it some other place?

Nigel Womersle

07-09-2006, 11:02

Been away from this one for a while. Anyone sent Audrey a PM to see if she's found it some other place?

I have just sent her one. Hope I get a reply soon.

suesmith

07-09-2006, 17:47

Dear all

Just got a message back from Tetley, asuming it might have been a tea house, they are not familiar with the building.

Has anyone been on to Tetley Brewers?

Sue:confused:

Nigel Womersle

10-09-2006, 00:58

Sorry everyone but as yet I have heard nothing from Audrey. I am still over curious about where this pub was/is.

Nigel Womersle

12-09-2006, 14:54

Sorry, still no reply. I have therefore decided to give it up as a bad job.

Lotti

12-09-2006, 16:22

Wow this has got quite interesting!

I'd really quite like to know where it is but am terrible at looking at the architecture and comparing the buildings properly!

Perhaps as we seem to have established it's a side road we could assume that the second, 3 letter word, is 'Row' or 'Way' and that may help us to look.
Also, I too doubt it's in Sheffield mainly due to the apparently flat road it's on.

I'm going to keep looking for possible leads and let you lot compare them :D

Lotti

12-09-2006, 17:01

Okay, Bex reckons that she recognises this building from near the Interchange on Pond St.

I can't find an old picture of Pond St so don't know what building she means but does anyone else have a clue?

I'll probably get her to take me there as her directions are not all that clear! :lol:

Meanwhile if you have any idea what she's gabbling about and can find a photo please do post one!

happyhippy

12-09-2006, 19:15

Sorry, still no reply. I have therefore decided to give it up as a bad job.

I have to say I'm fascinated by it all though .......

Lotti

12-09-2006, 20:15

Hmm,

Mum reckons it looks like Harrogate.

Also - why don't you contact Calendar and see if they can get onto it? They love stuff like this and cover all of Yorkshire :)

GrinderBloke

12-09-2006, 20:52

Lotti any idea where in Harrogate? I visit Harrogate quite often and wouldn't mind taking a walk round and grabbing a few photos, if it would help solve this mystery

Sadly it would appear that the OP has lost interest :(

Grinder

HughW

12-09-2006, 21:23

I can't see 'our' hotel, but there are some interesting pictures of Harrogate here (http://members.aol.com/mrtnrowe/INDEX.HTML).

Hugh

Lotti

13-09-2006, 12:48

I don't think she has an idea of which building, she just said it seemed typical of the architecture in Harrogate.

I'm going to try showing the photograph to my grandmother who is in her 70s but totally with it and remembers a lot of Sheffield and surrounding cities. Just in case it jogs her memory. Of course, she will argue black is white that it's the building she thinks it is!

Lotti

13-09-2006, 12:48

Also going to ask my aunt who works with architecture a bit and will have noticed any dutch gables on her travels!

Nigel Womersle

13-09-2006, 15:51

Hmm,

Mum reckons it looks like Harrogate.

Also - why don't you contact Calendar and see if they can get onto it? They love stuff like this and cover all of Yorkshire :)

Lotti - I suggested this to Audrey a few weeks ago, but she has gone to ground.

Mandem

15-09-2006, 15:17

I was in Derby yesterday, and I noticed one or two Dutch gables on some buildings near the hospital, and train station, could it be Derby way?

Plain Talker

15-09-2006, 17:52

I was in Derby yesterday, and I noticed one or two Dutch gables on some buildings near the hospital, and train station, could it be Derby way?

Tetley didn't tend to have hostelries much further south than sheffield(ish)
it would have been burton. mansfield breweries, mainly in that area. (maybe Inde coope?)

Nigel Womersle

25-09-2006, 23:35

It looks as if everyone has given up on this one, Audrey included. Time to move on I think, for all of us.

willo

26-09-2006, 09:35

:) hiall,spent a good while readin yer thread & studying the photo.there are some buildings very similar here in scarborough & some that were here ,but have been demolished[sadly],mainly the westfield hotel[demolished 1936] & the town hall.have just got the photo bucket thing & when i sus out how 2 do it [sry 2 tease-lol] will send the pics.also on the unknown hotel pic[my unqualified opinion] the gable end does'nt seem right,could this be some artistic liscence mebbe? edwardian photoshop-lol.also on the thread there was talk of some 1 having the pic enhanced.did this happen?.hope y'all do'nt mind me resseurecting this thread cos i 2 am hooked now.

Mandem

28-09-2006, 17:12

It looks as if everyone has given up on this one, Audrey included. Time to move on I think, for all of us.
NO NO NO !!!! We can't move on, I have to know where it is.:confused:

suesmith

28-09-2006, 18:00

It looks as if everyone has given up on this one, Audrey included. Time to move on I think, for all of us.

Nope will not give up till I find it. Might take a while but we will find it:thumbsup:

Nigel Womersle

28-09-2006, 18:08

OK, seems the spirit of adventure is alive and kicking. We'll have another go.

willo

28-09-2006, 18:12

:) sent the pic 2 a m8 whos a graphics whiz kid & hes try 'in 2 enhance it.if some 1 p.m.s me i'l send a few pics i mentioned here in scarbor'o that are very similar.[can't sus the bucket thing out-lol]

Plain Talker

28-09-2006, 22:02

NO NO NO !!!! We can't move on, I have to know where it is.:confused:

I completely agree, this is too delicious, and tantalising a mystery to leave unsolved lol lol lol..

(and yes, we have put too much effort in, collectively, to track the building down, to give up so soon!) :hihi:

willo

29-09-2006, 12:25

:) no joy yet,during my own [amateur]enhancing attempts i'v [we! even the missus is hooked-lol] i can see over the door there are figure heads[busts-wotever]+mebbe the letters c r . to the left of the guy stood [who looks strikingly like indiana jones] are 2 figures apparantly in conversion,1 of whom appears to be carrying a long pole.where is the tetley sign discussed earlier?all i can see under the crown is what looks like a canopy with what looks like a pageboy hanging off it-lol.if any 1s managed to enhance the pic can they post em pleeez.must go now i'v run outta optrex.

Dawdie

03-10-2006, 14:50

Hi Everyone
So glad this is still creating such interest,Im convinced it will be solved eventually and sorry to Nigel.Thanks to incompetance with Tiscali I've been unable to connect to the internet for over 3 weeks.His emails to me will have been zapped along with the 68 spam emails when I was eventually connected.
Thanks for all the input
Audrey

Nigel Womersle

03-10-2006, 23:27

Strix

03-10-2006, 23:36

Willo - www.photobucket.com and just follow the onscreen instructions for uploading.

When they're on photobucket, go to a pic, highlight your address bar and hold down your 'ctrl' key, whilst prodding 'c'.

Come back here, begin a post, hold down 'ctrl' and stab 'v'

bob's your uncle :thumbsup:

Strix

03-10-2006, 23:43

Which other forums have you posted this on Audrey? just so as we can see any clues somebody else may have posted ;)

willo

07-10-2006, 10:07

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n130/willo_07/Picture002.jpg.do,nt know if this worked,heres just an example of local architechture,i'm gonna post the original 1 on the local forum [scarbro].

willo

07-10-2006, 10:08

:loopy: DOH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Plain Talker

07-10-2006, 10:50

the linky doesn't work, willo... :(

it just takes you to photobucket's front page.. :(

willo

07-10-2006, 11:31

:( i'l get my technical advisor [my son age 12] to sort it.back soon.

Lotti

07-10-2006, 19:08

So glad this has been ressurected (sp?) again! Can't wait to find out about the enhanced pic!

spook

07-10-2006, 20:06

.................

suesmith

08-10-2006, 10:28

Already done it see
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,183970.0.html
Sue

HughW

08-10-2006, 11:10

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n130/willo_07/Picture002.jpg.do,nt know if this worked,heres just an example of local architechture,i'm gonna post the original 1 on the local forum [scarbro].

..the bit after 'jpg' is not part of it, so this is the correct link:
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n130/willo_07/Picture002.jpg

Hugh

suesmith

08-10-2006, 14:35

Hm interesting but not it.

There must be some link with the architect or just the style of the period.

Looks like we are still looking in the Yorkshire ish area. Did anyone have a better photo of the Station Hotel at York apart from the usual sites, that looks like it aswell.

Sue

Grantham

08-10-2006, 15:19

Hi this is a gripping read; just wondering if this 'Yorkshire Indexers' site may be able to help or carry a message if you join up Audrey....

http://www.yorkshireindexers.co.uk/forums/

Used by people researching Yorkshire family history etc.

Also looking at the Trade Directories for Sheffield:

As well as for 1911 - in 1919 George BUXTON is still the Victualler at the The Old Crown & Cushion 21 Old Street, Sheffield Park

Best wishes to the 'Building Hunters'!, Grantham

*_ash_*

09-10-2006, 23:34

just read this thread for the first time, youve got me intrigued now too, i absolutely love old buildings, and thought, ahhh, i'll know it, but sadly, im no use.

ash

*_ash_*

09-10-2006, 23:42

dont want to sound thick, but i've only very quickly read through some of this thread, (as its quite long)..... but is this definately in Sheffield?

worth looking at anyway, some great old buildings with some of the links

ash

HughW

10-10-2006, 08:26

... but is this definately in Sheffield?

No, the feeling is that it probably isn't. Apart from the fact that we can't find it in Sheffield (:) ) somebody has been able to read the name 'Tetley' on the lamp over the door [this is by enhancing the original I think]. At that period some people have said that Tetley's would have been limited to West Yorkshire - Leeds area probably. But we can't be sure:confused:

Hugh

willo

11-10-2006, 22:51

:( sent the pic to a historian on the local paper & he does'nt think it is [or was] in scarboro.thnx hugh w 4 sortin the photo bucket out for me,that was almost as frustratin as the pic-lol.

Strix

13-10-2006, 23:42

Mr Strix assures me that it isn't still standing if it is/was anywhere near york station.

He commutes to York by train ;)

Strix

21-11-2006, 02:39

Has Audrey disappeared again? :(

JeremyB

19-02-2007, 11:47

Hi All, I found this site almost by accident, and I am very pleased that I did!
The George & Jane Buxton referred to are, I believe, my Great Grandparents, but this is by default, and I have a problem that you may be able to help me with.
My paternal grandfather was Frederick, born1873 to George Buxton and Jane (formerly Milner) George was described as a table knife handle presser.
The only pairing of a George and Jane that I have been able to trace in any census, are the couple living at 21 Old Street, alias the Crown & Cushion Hotel.
I have George & Jane from the 1881 census through to the 1901 when they lived at 21 Old Street. In all returns, George is listed as being in the cutlery trade.
In the census prior to 1901, George & Jane are listed as living next door, at 19 Old Street. By the time they moved to the Crown & Cushion they had three more daughters, in addition to their two listed sons, so presumably No 19 got too small. In the census where they were listed at the C & C, George is still listed in the cutlery, rather than the licensed trade, and two other people are listed under his head-ship as “boarders”. No one else is listed at that address, so it is probable that it has been turned into a private house.
So what is my problem?
I cannot find any trace of Frederick ever living with a George and Jane.
Every census entry lists him living somewhere as a “boarder”, and in the 1881 census, when he would have been about 9, he disappears from the record completely.
Can anyone suggest a reason for this?
At Frederick’s birth, George & Jane are shown as living at Burnt Tree Lane – is this anywhere near Old Street?
Incidentally, one of the modern census transcribers has turned Old Street into Old Orchard Street. Does this make any sense?
Any information that anyone can give will be much appreciated!

Tuppie

19-02-2007, 14:26

Hi Jeremy.

I think you have the wrong George BUXTON. According to the 1891 census he (of the C&C)was born in 1854 approx.

The marriage of George BUXTON and Jane MILNER is in June Quarter of 1863 registered at Sheffield reference 9C page 416, making him 9 years old when he married.

IN 1871 there is this family at Little Park KNowle Top Bradfield.
George BUXTON aged 29 Table knife scale presser born Sheffield
Jane BUXTON wife aged 26
Wiliam H BUXTON son aged 7 (which fits in with the 1863 marriage)
Asenath BUXTON aged 4 (daughter)
George BUXTON son aged 1
There is a birth registered in Sheffield in the Dec Quarter of 1866 for Asenatch (sic) BUXTON.
Then there is a marriage registered in the Sept Quarter of 1888 at Sheffield,according to the 1891 census information she appears to have married Ralph Brotherton WILDE and her place of birth is not known.

I am still checking the 1881.

Have you considered that George BUXTON may have died, There is a burial for George BUXTON aged 31 a Scale Presser of 22 Burnt Tree Lane at the General Cemetery died 27/1/1873 bur 29/1/1873
Jane may also have died or re-married,
I would be inclined to send for the birth certificate of Asenath to confirm if she has the same parents as Frederick BUXTON.
You might also consider posting your message at www.sheffieldfhs.org.uk
or. http://sheff-indexers.thewholeshebang.org/index.html

Kind Regards
Tuppie

Tuppie

19-02-2007, 15:57

Hi.

The 1861 census has this family at 15 Daisy Walk RG9/3483 folio 81 page 44

Henry MILNER aged 47 Fork Grinder
Asenath MILNER aged 51
Henry Sam son aged 19
Jane MILNER dau aged 16 Warehouse Girl
Eliza aged 14
Thomas aged 12
Elizabeth CROOKES g.daughter aged 10

All born Sheffield.

This seems to confirm that Jane MILNER is the same person as listed in the 1871 census as Jane BUXTON and she has named the child Asenath after her mother.

Kind Regards
Tuppie

JeremyB

19-02-2007, 18:25

This is marvellous! I don't know where you found all this information, but it is exactly the sort of detail that I have been searching (quite unsucessfully) for.
I have found Frederick living with a Jane Buxton, and she is shown as "Head", but she is also shown as having children, but Fred is listed as a boarder. Fortunately, Fred was a butcher all his life, so is fairly easy to follow - except for his disappearance at about 9
Now for some more research on this new info!

JeremyB

19-02-2007, 18:48

Hi Tuppie, you have said more than you realise! I have just read (and re-read!) your post again, and something hit me between the eyes. My father had a sister, whose name I always believed to be SENETH, indeed my own sister was named Vicki Seneth Buxton. It doesn't take too much imagination to see where that came from!
Unfortunately, I am getting a consience about destroying the planet in my thirst for (and waste of) paper. (I had gone two generations back from the C & C Buxtons, through various censuses, and will now have to start again! Fortunately, my partner's printer will accept paper that has been printed on one side, whereas my printer turns it nose up at it.
Jeremy

Tuppie

19-02-2007, 22:30

Hi Jeremy.

The information was from the census at www.Ancestry.co.uk.
This is a pay to view site.

The BMD are from http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/

The burial indexes are produced by Sheffield & District FHS and the General Cemetery.

Kind Regards
Tuppie

JeremyB

19-02-2007, 22:58

Thanks for that info Tuppie - I wondered why my researches couldn't find them, though I did since find both the 1871 listing, and the 1861 listing for Jane - who appears to have been a naughty girl!
I found the Ancestry site to be very expensive, and I am very annoyed that HM Gov appears to have sold out to them. When the Gov ran their own census site, we could at least see sufficiant information to verify that we had the right files before spending money! I do subscribe to the Genealogist, who appear to have most of the same information, but I have never heard of the Roots site - must take a look-see.
Are any of the local Sheffield databases on line? The Cemetery would be interesting. I bought the Nether Hallam files a couple of years ago, and the Crookes burial records, but never found them that usefull. I must re-visit them now I have more information to go on.
Jeremy

Tuppie

19-02-2007, 23:03

Hi Jeremy.

The Sheffield indexers have census, baptims marriages and burials available free online.

This is an ongoing project.

http://sheff-indexers.thewholeshebang.org/index.html

The first 6000 burials at the General Cemetery are also available online.
http://www.gencem.org/

Kind Regards
Tuppie

Strix

20-02-2007, 00:06

The only pairing of a George and Jane that I have been able to trace in any census, are the couple living at 21 Old Street, alias the Crown & Cushion Hotel.
I have George & Jane from the 1881 census through to the 1901 when they lived at 21 Old Street. In all returns, George is listed as being in the cutlery trade.
In the census prior to 1901, George & Jane are listed as living next door, at 19 Old Street. By the time they moved to the Crown & Cushion they had three more daughters, in addition to their two listed sons, so presumably No 19 got too small. In the census where they were listed at the C & C, George is still listed in the cutlery, rather than the licensed trade, and two other people are listed under his head-ship as “boarders”. No one else is listed at that address, so it is probable that it has been turned into a private house.
So does this give us our answer? Is this 'Old Street' a Sheffield address? The 'Old Orchard Street' which is mentioned further down your post would be too long for the plate we can see on the wall of the adjoining building. Do the quantity of figures in Audrey's picture stack up with any you have from the same period or with the quantity of people you have there?

Plain Talker

20-02-2007, 08:09

JeremyB

20-02-2007, 11:02

In the 1871 census, the enumerators simply listed the street as "Old Street", but if you then view the printed transcription, it has changed to "Old Orchard Street" I cannot see any evidence for this, & I simply wondered if the poor old enumerators decided to save themselves time and effort by abreviating the name, but that the later transcribers, aware of this, put the full name in!
Mind you, I have learned to be suspicious of transcriptions, having come across several "Ghost" persons listed that are not on the original, and they got my father's birth year wrong by three years.
The local website links are very welcome, thanks for those Tuppie. Most of my ancestors seem to have originated in and around Sheffield, and I almost think of myself as a Sheffieldian (?), twice removed!
Unfortunately I have no photographs of anyone, or anywhere, and my proprietorial interest in Old Street has somewhat diminished since Tuppie showed me that I was on the wrong track.
I am off to a place somewhat warmer than either Sheffield or Cumbria on Thursday, so will not be able to follow this thread until I get back in March - but I will get back, hopefully with renewed vigour!
Jeremy

Tuppie

20-02-2007, 21:32

Hi JeremyB.

(I had gone two generations back from the C & C Buxtons, through various censuses, and will now have to start again!

Always prove each generation as you go ...even if it means purchasing certificates.

Kind Regards

Tuppie

JeremyB

20-02-2007, 22:57

Hi Tuppie,I take on board what you say about proof - indeed I was stuck on Frederick for two years because I couldn't PROVE that the butcher I believed was my grandfather really was, until I traced his death record. I thought that I must be on safe ground with George and Jane, because, despite searching every census, this was the only pair that ever appeared. I have since learned not to trust these searches. Since you put me on the right track, I have been serarching again, and George appeared to vanish from one census. What I did was to search for each of the wife / children in turn, and bingo - the whole family showed up, including George.
I spent some time today on a) The first 6000 burials, and b) the Sheffield website, but still cannot find the records that you gave to me regarding George's burial, and though I could find interesting census listings, could find no way of accessing the data that these links pointed to. Is the data, in fact, available on the website?
I would love to buy certificates, but much of the data that the on-line forms require, I just don't have. ( This is why I need to buy the certificate!) I wrote to the Department concerned to ask if I could order by folio / page number as given in the BMD registers, but got a reply, as usual, answering a question that I didn't ask, telling me what the on-line ordering requirements were - Catch 22!
Jeremy

suesmith

21-02-2007, 20:24

Dear all
I have just posted on Rootsweb again to see if we get any further this time.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=183970.new#new

Sue

HughW

22-02-2007, 09:41

And in that RootsChat thread someone has enhanced the coat of arms on the gable and it it looks so like the Sheffield Coat of Arms!

Hugh

suesmith

22-02-2007, 12:38

It is only super imposed it doesn't match at the bottom. Clever stuff though.

come and join in :hihi:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,183970.30.html

Sue

HughW

22-02-2007, 13:00

what a let down :( but if I hadn't been dizzy with excitement I would have seen it was wrong. But still an interesting discussion over there :)

Hugh

suesmith

22-02-2007, 13:40

Dear Hugh

Fooled us both. :hihi: But have you had a look at the Buxton crest that might fit.

Sue

Falls

22-02-2007, 15:06

Old street is in the Park district, it runs off broad street, parallell with bernard road, but the terrain in the photograph is too flat to be that street, as the land is very, very steep in that area.

Also, the buildings round there are all wrong, too:- it's tenement-like housing in the old-street district, not the "imposing" stone architecture that looked more like the Royal Hospital, as shown in the pic.

Thanks Plain Talk

Hi,

Just a recap - this thread has been going on so long I have almost forgotten where we were. With all our postings on the the open Forum and a couple of my PM's to Audrey/Dawdie, I can't remember who said what to whom.

Two things

Last summer, I sent the picture of the hotel to my Mother in Law in Sheffield. She may be 90 years but her mind is sharper than most people half her age. She also grew up in the Park (Bernard Street) and remembers Old Street well, before it was redeveloped in the late thirties.

My wife and I also visited her at the end of last year so we went over the subject again. The verdict is that the hotel was not on Old Street. In fact the opinion from M in L and a couple of other relatives (of similar vintage) who saw the picture, is that if this building was ever on Old Street, it would most likely still be there. For it would have been one of the most hansome buildings the Park district had ever seen!! In short, it was totally out of character for the district, and particularly Old Street, at that time.

Other point

Also last year, our travels took us to Skipton, Thirsk, Harrogate, Knaresborough and quite a few of the smaller communities in North and West Yorkshire. We didn't get into York. We kept looking at buildings until we couldn't do it anymore. Nothing to report.

Regards

suesmith

01-03-2007, 19:42

Looks like rootschat has run out of ideas. One idea they put forward was that the hotel might be the Midland Hotel, used to be infront of Midland Station on Midland Road. Althought it seems to have more floors than the one we are looking for there seems to be no photographs of the hotel are these in the distance shots.

http://www.picturesheffield.com/cgi-bin/picturesheffield.pl?_cgifunction=form&_layout=picturesheffield&keyval=sheff.refno=s15871

http://www.picturesheffield.com/cgi-bin/picturesheffield.pl?_cgifunction=form&_layout=picturesheffield&keyval=sheff.refno=s17707

Sue

Strix

01-03-2007, 20:48

It also seems to have a curved front in those links suesmith :(

suesmith

01-03-2007, 21:26

Yep dont think that it is the Mystery hotel but there are loads of photos in front of the station(edit) but nothing of the hotel? But strange dont you think.:confused:
Sue

suesmith

06-03-2007, 08:07

Just bumping the thread up to the top again.

Looks like we have come to a dead end. Any more suggestions.

Sue

TheRedWizard

09-03-2007, 13:38

It's going to do my head in if we don't get this one solved!!!!

Could I suggest that someone (I'm happy to do this although it might be more appropriate if it came from the OP or someone more closely involved):

- Gets in touch with Radio Sheffield and get them to do an appeal, I'm sure Rony Robinson or someone similar would be happy to mention this and maybe discuss it for five minutes.

- Contact Mike Spick at local studies and ask him to put a sign up in the library (and let him have a hi-res .tif so he can include it on the unidentified photos on the BBC site and on PictureSheffield).

Are there any other forums we can post on? One that springs to mind is www.1914-1918.net (thousands of active members from around Britain, all interested in this period).

I'll go and scout around for other forums and high-traffic sites that might be able to help. Here's hoping!

suesmith

13-08-2007, 19:28

Hi every one I bet you didnt think this one would pop up again.:loopy:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/wharncliffe/UnknownHotel.jpg

Still no idea?

Sue

Strix

26-02-2008, 22:57

did this thread go cold then?

I know it was posted on other forums, but was there any progress made there either?

happyhippy

04-03-2008, 16:39

did this thread go cold then?

I know it was posted on other forums, but was there any progress made there either?

Unfortunately, it looks like it Strix ......

Speckled Hen

31-03-2008, 18:45

happyhippy

12-03-2009, 04:40

Right. This thread came back to my mind for some unknown reason, and it has been a while, and so is now bugging me.

Now that we've not seen it for a bit, can we have another bash? This is the most frustrating thread of all time.

This is the original photo posted. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/wharncliffe/UnknownHotel.jpg) Let's have a final push!

roughy101

12-03-2009, 11:27

what about asking the star to print the pic:thumbsup:

Gingerbarf

12-03-2009, 17:19

To me the letters on the building do look like C & B, which are the initials of the man mentioned on the back! have searched the 1911 White's directory for Sheffield and no charles Buxton barman/lics-vict. so dont believe it's Sheffield. does anyone have access to the 1908 Kelly's directory for Leeds/Bradford area?? given the Tetley carving above the door mentioned earlier?
Have also checked 1911 census briefly (not purchased any) and dont look too promising finding him easy, only 1 with wife Margaret as mentioned on pg1 1891 census, but thats in Leek Staffordshire.