Just a bit of a rant but whilst watching England v France I noticed as soon as the English national anthem had finished the boos and jeers started for the French anthem, Why? I have watched the other games and didn't hear anything during the anthems, is it just a small number of idiots or to be a true England supporter do you have to....

1) Read the Sun like it's the Bible

2) Wear Burberry and Ben Sherman constantly

3) Disrespect other nations when they keep quiet for us

Rant over:rant:

Meh, there's always some bunch of chavs who try and ruin it for others.... :loopy:

At least apart from that there's been no trouble reported.... Then again they banned all the known chavs from going to the game in the first place.

These booing morons soon got their come-uppance though didn't they.:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

yea it's out of order boo-ing but you can bet that the french were boo-ing ours it's just that you couldn't hear them as we drowned them out!

What was the point of the fighting and rioting after the match IN our country. I can understand fighting the French as it's a historical battle of nations, but why fight in the streets in Lincoln, etc? We're all on the same side, so what's the point?

Originally posted by Classic Rock
What was the point of the fighting and rioting after the match IN our country. I can understand fighting the French as it's a historical battle of nations, but why fight in the streets in Lincoln, etc? We're all on the same side, so what's the point?

because they did such a good job of banning the hooligans from going that they were all left here to riot!! :D

Yeo had it as well wher i watched the match. And as a french person didnt feel good!
We actuakky had cigarettes thrown at us, and even a girl shouting go Home!
Well it was a match, not a war... why cant we jut chill and drink together at the end ( a couple of english folks spoke to us at the end but otherwise we had quite a lot of injures from others................
Chill guys, and hopefully we'll see each other in the semi-final and could get a drink together!!!

Originally posted by bookie
Yeo had it as well wher i watched the match. And as a french person didnt feel good!
We actuakky had cigarettes thrown at us, and even a girl shouting go Home!
Well it was a match, not a war... why cant we jut chill and drink together at the end ( a couple of english folks spoke to us at the end but otherwise we had quite a lot of injures from others................
Chill guys, and hopefully we'll see each other in the semi-final and could get a drink together!!!

Poor you i'm shocked at that:o Well actually i'm not that shocked.
What makes it worse is that some so called parents take their kids to the pub or match then act in this stupid way so the kids grow up and think that it's acceptable to do such things!

Bookie, if we meet again in the tournament lets meet up for a friendly drink and watch the game:thumbsup:

definitely du....

sorry its a bit ramdom but i have just noticed that the rant emoticon shouts 'babooshka'

randomness over.

i noticed it too! the booing that is. our english fans supposidly out numbered the french by 3 to 1.

i also noticed what a prat gerrard is! oh and David james! a draw would have been acceptable, but come on!!

Par for the course bookie, I'm ashamed to say.

It's because of these lowlife scum that I hope England get trashed. Sorry you real supporters, but how I'd like to see the smug smiles wiped of these fat yobs' podgy faces.

What is it about football and yobs? (some of which actually play professionally)

Compare them with cricket and rugby supporters!!!!!:thumbsup:

Football has a much larger and wider fanbase than any other sport, so the "minority that ruins it for the majority" is going to be proportionately larger hence more noticeable. Don't make the mistake in thinking it is just our country that has football yobs either - Spanish fans caused problems in Portugal on Saturday night.

Originally posted by t020
Football has a much larger and wider fanbase than any other sport, so the "minority that ruins it for the majority" is going to be proportionately larger hence more noticeable. Don't make the mistake in thinking it is just our country that has football yobs either - Spanish fans caused problems in Portugal on Saturday night.

Oh I agree that it's not just the English who cause trouble and yes it is a minority. However, of the games i've watched the English were the only ones who 'booed' the other nations anthem, is a little respect too much to ask? There's enough banter before the game so surely then you can keep the jeers down for the anthems. The Denmark v Italy game was well mannerd today. It's just something that gets me.

Originally posted by t020
Football has a much larger and wider fanbase than any other sport, so the "minority that ruins it for the majority" is going to be proportionately larger hence more noticeable. Don't make the mistake in thinking it is just our country that has football yobs either - Spanish fans caused problems in Portugal on Saturday night.

By your reckoning then there should have been a few dozen arrests of English fans at the Rugby World Cup and the recent test against New Zealand. (Proportionately speaking that is!!)

It may not be just English 'fans(?)' that cause problems, but what the other nations get up to doesn't reflect on my country and embarrass me. That's THEIR problem. When a load of yobs travel abroad, waving MY flag as they rip other peoples towns apart, then I consider that to be an insult to my flag. And maybe that is the reason why I wish to be disassociated from the reason why these yobs are there in the first place.

They are a disgrace but I don't see why they should ruin my enjoyment. I like sport and will support our nation in any sporting event they take part in. Drunken morons won't stop me supporting England or enjoying Euro 2004. I will probably be slated for saying this, but remember football has strong working class roots and a lot of the yobs that cause trouble are off council sink estates in poor inner city areas.

I want to go and live in one of these council sink estates if it means I can afford to buy myself a designer jumper to go and have a scrap in whilst I follow the national football team around the world.

Originally posted by t020
They are a disgrace but I don't see why they should ruin my enjoyment. I like sport and will support our nation in any sporting event they take part in. Drunken morons won't stop me supporting England or enjoying Euro 2004. I will probably be slated for saying this, but remember football has strong working class roots and a lot of the yobs that cause trouble are off council sink estates in poor inner city areas.
and a lot of yobs come from middle class back grounds with good jobs ..........to20 why do you have to turn every thread on here into some kind of class thing:confused:

I don't but the evidence is there. Football fans do cause more trouble than other sports, which I think is due to working class roots. It's obvious that kids from rough estates are more likely to vandalise and act like yobs and they do - I blame the parents. The trouble makers are usually the skin headed chavs with tatoos and piercings, and often baseball caps. And no I'm not saying ALL, so don't try that one. There is also the fact that football is synonymous with drinking copious amounts of alcohol.

if you realy look at the hooligan culture pal the real top hooligans are middle 2 upperclass. they dont come off rough council estates as you say, do you realise how much it costs 2 travell 2 these tournaments. dont think 2 weeks dole will get you 2 or 3 weeks in portugal do you.

They save it for 4 years because they live for football. Besides, the main chav yobs have been banned from going, hence all the trouble around England after Sundays match.

Just because they are banned doesn't mean they don't have means of making it there. They'll go sceneic route if they have to.

good point, alot of hardcore hooligans have been known 2 travell out 2 the eastern block and double back on themselves 4 an england game in spain. as i said earlier these are not your generall out of work scallies but well organised well paid people.

Well paid through drugs/ crime maybe.

Well lets face it. Watching football isn't cheap, couple that with travelling, booze expenditure and you have got to have some coin. Also be able to afford to take the time off work in the first place. ;)

Benefit cheats, drug dealers, etc, should have no trouble getting time off 'work' though.

i think your missing the point im making, in another thread i posted i made a post about 2 solicitors who work in a well known sheffield solicitors. they are well known at swfc and are hard core hooligans, if you look at registered hooligans the majority are in well paid jobs and quite a few pwn there own buissness. i dont see your point on drug dealers and hooligans.

I wouldn't go as far as saying no hooligans are involved with drug dealings because I don't think that is the case. However, I also appreciate the fact that some will be able to support their own end through legit activities.

iv'e known lots of 'hooligans' in my time particulalry when i used to live in torquay - you just know everyone in a place like that

anyhow, it's true that most of them were in stable relatively mundane jobs or jobs which didn't require a degree or any further education. There were very few 'affluent' hooligans but i do know that some had 'good' jobs or jobs that required a degree or further/higher education

i think it's a bit of a generalisation that hooligans are working class as such but more often than not they are - i mean when you read the name and shame reports that often spring up in tabloid press you'll see that the convicted are sometimes in professional related jobs

when i lived in germany it was interesting to note that the german hooligans (of the former east anyhow) were all decked out in Doc Martin boots and donning skinheads - that was their uniform as oppose to the english 'soccer casual'

Originally posted by t020
I don't but the evidence is there. Football fans do cause more trouble than other sports, which I think is due to working class roots. It's obvious that kids from rough estates are more likely to vandalise and act like yobs and they do - I blame the parents. The trouble makers are usually the skin headed chavs with tatoos and piercings, and often baseball caps. And no I'm not saying ALL, so don't try that one. There is also the fact that football is synonymous with drinking copious amounts of alcohol.

I have tattoo's and a piercing and so do many of my friends. Yes, we are working class and no we don't run around smashing stuff up for the sake of it. I think you will find that yob culture is pretty common amongst bored middle class teens as witnessed in the anti globalisation riots in London. So, it's a little unfair to dismiss yob behaviour as just being a working class problem.

Anyway, back to the subject about not respecting another nation's anthem..... did anyone witness what the Dutch fans did last night? They whistled through the German anthem, so there you have it, it's not only us English that have a lack of respect.

i visited hollond in the 80s and believe me there hoolgan prob is just as bad as ours. as 4 the booing as bad as it is the hatred between holland and germany runs very deep. good point by the way on appearance and being pigeon holed,the days of young lad , scally whatever you want 2 call him being the main hooligan as gone. its as i said earlier more organised and run by affluent and so called respectable people.

Originally posted by Dick Dastardly
Anyway, back to the subject about not respecting another nation's anthem..... did anyone witness what the Dutch fans did last night? They whistled through the German anthem, so there you have it, it's not only us English that have a lack of respect.

Fair enough, but let some one on the Amsterdam forum complain about the Dutch. I know it happens, but it happens nearly every game with England even in friendlies. Just because other fans do it does it mean it's o.k and set an example to kids who will grow up doing the same and then where could that lead to?

You are very niave to think that its only the English that boo national anthems. Look at Scotland fans when we played them in the Euro 2000 play-offs. It happens all around the world but you don't hear much about it because you watch English news and English programmes.
Didn't see last nights match but did Germany fans boo the Dutch anthem???

When did I ever say it was just the English? I said of the games I had seen so far it was just the English up to now, that post was a few days ago.

I know it happens everywhere else but i'm just on about England, I think most people have the it's ok everyone else is doing it attitude.

To be fair that my response wasn't aimed at you..it was more general..soz dude :thumbsup:

Originally posted by wibbles
To be fair that my response wasn't aimed at you..it was more general..soz dude :thumbsup:

Don't worry:rolleyes: :thumbsup:

Originally posted by duffman
When did I ever say it was just the English? I said of the games I had seen so far it was just the English up to now, that post was a few days ago.

I know it happens everywhere else but i'm just on about England, I think most people have the it's ok everyone else is doing it attitude.

I only stated the Dutch example as I felt that the thread was a little one sided in damning the behaviour of the English fans. Anyway, I agree with you that just cos others behave in such a way that we don't have to follow suit. I think this lack of respect for the opponent and their nation is totally out of order and should be stamped out of football. What would be better to see the English stand in silence and observe the opponents national anthem?!

if you want a good example of how some other countries react to england (or english) teams and specifically black players you only need to listen to fans who are so racist it's unbelievable - at least we seemed to have stamped this deplorable behaviour out in this country

Originally posted by Dick Dastardly
So, it's a little unfair to dismiss yob behaviour as just being a working class problem.

Good job I didn't then isn't it? What I actually said was that it is MAINLY a working class problem, and since football has working class roots and still even now is mainly a working class sport in terms of attendances, there might be some kind of correlation there which could explain why fans of football are more prone to violence and thuggery than fans of cricket and tennis. Statistical analysis is all about identifying trends and I'd say there was a pretty strong link.

Originally posted by t020
Good job I didn't then isn't it? What I actually said was that it is MAINLY a working class problem, and since football has working class roots and still even now is mainly a working class sport in terms of attendances, there might be some kind of correlation there which could explain why fans of football are more prone to violence and thuggery than fans of cricket and tennis. Statistical analysis is all about identifying trends and I'd say there was a pretty strong link.

yup i'd agree with that 100%

Originally posted by t020
... since football has working class roots and still even now is mainly a working class sport in terms of attendances...

Rubbish. Where are your sources? You think 'working class' people can afford premiership tickets??? Define working class and maybe you'll get away with it...

or i'll clarify the context from which i agree - am not debating whether football has working class origins or that it's a 'working class' sport

what i'm agreeing with (working class definitions aside) is that in my personal experiences the majority of hooligans are blue collar workers

Just thought I'd add my...umm...thoughts on this subject and some points that have been raised.

The English hoolies (and i'm not in anyway condoning violence or using the 'well they do it so our lads doing it is ok' line) are certainly not the worst bunch on the planet. Its just the fact that many countries that have worse hoolies are relatively poor and therefore their lads can't travel in the same kind of numbers that our hoolies do. I'm thinking Turkey, Poland, many of the old Eastern Bloc countries, Croatia and Argentina (have you seen the fighting at the Buenos Aires derby? Guns have been used in the past).

Racism is not as rife as it used to be in English football, yes there are racists that go to the football, but there are also racists that go to the cinema, go to cricket, serve you lunch etc. Its unfortunate that the tribal mentality and nature of football allows these people to yell and shout their views where they can be easily heard, and in someways almost tolerated. Football Unites, Racism Divides and Kick Racism Out of Football have made great strides in recent years, and long may they continue. Other countries experience far worse racism than we do (again i'm not using the 'they do it so its OK that we do' line), as highlighted when England played in Macedonia and the black players got some terrible abuse.

As far as domestic hoolies go, many are in good jobs, but the majority (or at least the majority of those I have known) are employed in mundane jobs, or trades. They see it as a release for a weeks worth of shovelling **** and boredom. They obviously get a real buzz from taking part in fighting (although most of the time it is generally running away from the Police). I've seen and spoke to lads after they've been running around looking for a scrap, and they are hyper. Talking fast and restless on their feet.

I feel that most of the whole hoolie scene is about being part of something, belonging to a group. its just a shame that in order to feel this belonging they need to go around and look for trouble.

I've rambled on far too long, and most of it is probably bobbins, but they're my thoughts. I won't lie, I find the hoolie scene quite interesting, and have been close to acts of large scale violence at football (unfortunately there seems to be a fair bit of it at Sheffield Utd in the last couple of years - Leeds, Coventry, Derby, Sheffield Weds/Sportsman incident, Cardiff, Bristol). Its like a car crash, you have to watch and look. If anyone wants to discuss this subject, PM me.

yea we are a 'fine' exporter of holliganism and i probably agree that most countries don't travel as they can't afford it BUT somewhere like holland who can and do travel in larger numbers never seem to cause trouble abroad or even scotland wales etc

Originally posted by Bedhead
yea we are a 'fine' exporter of holliganism and i probably agree that most countries don't travel as they can't afford it BUT somewhere like holland who can and do travel in larger numbers never seem to cause trouble abroad or even scotland wales etc

True, and we need to find out how they manage it.

Although as mentioned previously, the Dutch were not always an orange loony army. They have had, and still do have, problems at a domestic level. Its just we don't have a Dutch paper or news channel in the UK, so we don't get to hear about any incidents.

Wales - when did they last qualify for a major tournament? before the invention of the wheel i think.

yea but doesn't stop the welsh traveling abroad to qualifying matches etc
it's weird as the welsh have a hoolie problem too
wrexham frontline
cardiff doughnut mob, soul crew
etc
but they never seem to take it abroad - same for scotland

i remember the dutch were supposed to meet english fans in 1988 - i know as i was at the match and it was reported after the match in tabloid press
they never turned up so the enlgland fans kicked off with each other at trafalgar square :loopy:

no ithink you mean scotland, just 2 add i posted earlier on this subject and like i said having spent time in hollond there hooligan element is very strong. the thing is its more at club level and as mostly been stopped at international matches, dont no how perhaps we could learn from them.

Originally posted by brooksy
no ithink you mean scotland

me?!

sorry it was meant 4 barra