Taken really from some comments made in the bus strile forum. There was something on the early morning news about how a new satelite tracking system could be used to invoice people for travelling in their cars at peak times??

It is supposed to tackle congestion on the roads. To which they started going on about parents on the 'school run'.

What is this school run??? Have legs become useless???

Moon Maiden

May be this is a wind up but the school run is parents, mainly mums taking there kids to and from school in there cars.
This adds to the mysery of the congestion caused by folk getting to and from work.
The tracking system will be fitted to all cars but the good point to this is that the tracking system can be used to detect stolen cars.
The school run actually is a big contributer to congestion as most journeys are short and not neccasery.

The school run traffic congestion is added to by pupils coming from out of catchment area.

Local kids going to local schools = reduction in traffic

simple equation

Originally posted by "mikey"

The school run traffic congestion is added to by pupils coming from out of catchment area.

Local kids going to local schools = reduction in traffic

simple equation
Maybe if the government were to adopt the American view and put on Government funded school buses the congestion would slim down considerabley.

I'm not one for using my car a lot, but I don't like the idea of this tax at all. Just another example of Rip-Off Britain IMHO.
I'd rather people protested outside the petrols depots again and bring the Government to it's knees.

F****** Labour!

I think another thing that fuels the amount of people making the school run is the paranoia about "stranger danger" - many parents are too scared to let their kids walk to school for fear of them being snatched, despite this being no more likely than it ever has been.

I remember reading somewhere about "walking busses" (can't remember the exact term used) which I think is a great idea. Basically the kids are escorted to the school along a "bus" route, guided by responsible adults. Of course, there's no bus, everyone is walking, but it means there's an adult to guide the kids, and the kids are never on their own in the dark streets, etc.

Has the added bonus of a bit of exercise for the rapidly fattening population.

many parents are too scared to let their kids walk to school for fear of them being snatched, despite this being no more likely than it ever has been.

Just a thought, but have you noticed when a wanring goes out from a school about a vehicle and it's occupants trying to entice youngsters the car is ALWAYS white??

Moon Maiden

Originally posted by "Mike"

I think another thing that fuels the amount of people making the school run is the paranoia about "stranger danger" - many parents are too scared to let their kids walk to school for fear of them being snatched, despite this being no more likely than it ever has been.

I remember reading somewhere about "walking busses" (can't remember the exact term used) which I think is a great idea. Basically the kids are escorted to the school along a "bus" route, guided by responsible adults. Of course, there's no bus, everyone is walking, but it means there's an adult to guide the kids, and the kids are never on their own in the dark streets, etc.

Has the added bonus of a bit of exercise for the rapidly fattening population.
I very much like that idea. It would give the kids exercise. But what do you do in rain/sleet/snow?

I very much like that idea. It would give the kids exercise. But what do you do in rain/sleet/snow?

Extra layers of clothes, wellies and some waterproofs. Illness and allergy rate may drop then too.

Moon Maiden

Originally posted by "DaBouncer"

But what do you do in rain/sleet/snow?
Yeah, it'll give them some extra "moral fibre" - bit of rain never hurt anyone (says he, who never walks anywhere!)

If the weather is *that* bad, then mummy can always use the 4x4....

I can't see many parents wanting/allowing their kids to be escorted to school in the weather I described.

Here we go - knew I'd seen it somewhere before:

http://www.walkingschoolbus.org/

Not sure if I've ever heard of one in Sheffield, but one of those links has a link to a friends of the earth document on how to set one up - nothing to stop somebody going for it.

Originally posted by "DaBouncer"

The school run traffic congestion is added to by pupils coming from out of catchment area.

Local kids going to local schools = reduction in traffic

simple equation
Maybe if the government were to adopt the American view and put on Government funded school buses the congestion would slim down considerabley.

I'm not one for using my car a lot, but I don't like the idea of this tax at all. Just another example of Rip-Off Britain IMHO.

If its a rip off, don't buy it, that's my advice. You can always get it somewhere else cheaper.


I'd rather people protested outside the petrols depots again and bring the Government to it's knees.

F****** Labour!
You think the Tories would be any different?

After all it was the Tories who introduced the 'fuel duty escalator', the mechanism by which fuel duty was automatically increased every year, regardless of the cost of oil. Labour abolished it and now all increases in fuel duty go through the budget and are adjusted to account for changing oil prices. And that all happened way before the blockade.

As for protesting outside petrol depots again, all that did was make the UK genuinely the laughing stock of Europe.

Really, I heard little else but snorts and howls laughter from my European resident friends that people would be so stupid as to deliberately engineer a fuel crisis to try and force the government to lower fuel duty when petrol companies put the price up. One of the few times I felt compelled to point out to befuddled overseas visitors to Sheffield that 'No, I wasn't British, and yes they are crazy'. (normally you can't tell I'm not English)

I almost wept with laughter at the pathetic panic buying, survivalist mode so many people got into; I would have laughed had it not been so tragically dim. But still not as dim as the HGV drivers (none of whom use petrol) who blockaded fuel depots, not realising that they were were trying to blackmail the government into reducing fuel taxation, by threatening a total breakdown of civil and commercial day to day life.

I have no doubt whatsoever that any government, whatever their complexion, would have taken the strongest measures possible in order to break the blockade, including the use of force, because they were endangering the lives and livelihoods of others for the sake of extra pounds in their pockets.

As it stands this country runs on petrol as much as it does on oxygen. Blockading the supply of either is like taking a big dump in your own paddling pool.

The problem with the car is that we've been wedded to it for 60 years or more, we have built our country our cities and our habits around it and since we're all conservative types and hate change. we're loath to give them up.

I have a car. I hate the thing. I need it to get to work 2 days a week, my better half uses it the other 3 to get to work. We both want jobs in sheffield so we can get rid of the great smelly thing.

Cars have seduced us into the 'instant gratification' culture of doing things when and where you want to, rather than learning a little retraint, patience and forethought. It's not just cars, and it's not necessarily a bad thing, buit it caters more for the egotist inside us than the altruist.

We should have like Poland, a ministry of hitch-hiking.

I'd rather people protested outside the petrols depots again and bring the Government to it's knees.

F****** Labour!


Give em time Bouncer give em time. I told you people were working on it didn't I???

What was the last time labour was in power called?? Winter of discontent or something like that???

Moon Maiden

Originally posted by "Phanerothyme"

You think the Tories would be any different?
Did I say anything about the Tories? Nope.
Did I say anything about the Lib-Dems? Nope.

Originally posted by "DaBouncer"

You think the Tories would be any different?
Did I say anything about the Tories? Nope.
Did I say anything about the Lib-Dems? Nope.

Did I say anything about you saying anything about Tories? Nope.

And neither of us mentioned the Lib Dems.

It's just that I'd rather people protested outside the petrols depots again and bring the Government to it's knees.
F****** Labour!

does seem to be a comment directed at labour, rather than the nature of government and taxation in general, hence my observation that it was in fact labour who had actually done something to stop the automatic adding of fuel duty that the tories instituted (as an environmental measure) during their miserably long stint in office.

Originally posted by "Phanerothyme"


does seem to be a comment directed at labour, rather than the nature of government and taxation in general, hence my observation that it was in fact labour who had actually done something to stop the automatic adding of fuel duty that the tories instituted (as an environmental measure) during their miserably long stint in office.
That maybe so, but it seems that this government is hell bent of f****** it's people out of as much money as it can muster. Tories were the same. And I just added in the Lib-Dem before you gave me more of your immense knowledge which just reads to me as 'blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah' :headbang:

Originally posted by "mikey"

The school run traffic congestion is added to by pupils coming from out of catchment area.

Local kids going to local schools = reduction in traffic

simple equation

Until all schools are equal in the standard of education that they provide (which they never will be) some people will go out of catchment area. I am one of those people and even if my kids went to our catchment school I would still use my car as it is almost 2 miles away. Also many parents send out of catchment for religious reasons.

IMHO the cause of traffic congestion is down to a free for all in public transport. Since de-regulation it has been in one hell of a mess.

Originally posted by "DaBouncer"

...Tories were the same. And I just added in the Lib-Dem before you gave me more of your immense knowledge which just reads to me as 'blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah' :headbang:

That almost sounds like an insult, but I'm not sure so unless you (or anyone else) care(s) to elucidate, I'm not touching it.[/img]

just to put my oar in. for the last two weeks whilst the kids have been off school, the roads have been 100% easier. I note today that the roads aren't too bad even without the mainline buses...so perhaps its the buses that cause the problem.

Whenever you see a queue of traffic, its always fronted by a mainline or private bus spewing dirt out into the atmosphere, yet motorists get the blame for pollution. Try testing a bus for once?

:P

Originally posted by "Phanerothyme"

...Tories were the same. And I just added in the Lib-Dem before you gave me more of your immense knowledge which just reads to me as 'blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah' :headbang:

That almost sounds like an insult, but I'm not sure so unless you (or anyone else) care(s) to elucidate, I'm not touching it.[/img]
It's not an insult... just an observation that your posts are like epics and full of big words I don't understand so I don't bother to read em anymore.
To me it's just a big mass of BLAH!

Originally posted by "DaBouncer"

I can't see many parents wanting/allowing their kids to be escorted to school in the weather I described.
Many mums do because they have no choice, no car or no far enough to catch the bus, its only the mums who have access to cars don,t walk there kids to school.
The rain would,nt hurt them either but you will never educate them to not take there cars, unless you make them pay.

I still reckon the way to go is a government funded school bus system.
They say our kids 'have to' go to school.
Well if want em to, you pay for em to!

Put on the big yellow buses you cheap government fat cats!

During my time at Comp 1970/75 we were issued a bus pass which allowed us to get on two buses of our choice for free.
In my case i got the 47 to Firthpark then the number 4 to wincobank.
They had a time limit so you could not use them all day nor could you use them at weekends.
They were issued once a year and each pass was a different colour every year.
Not sure when they stopped this, would,nt be suprised if it was Thatcher but this would cut a lot of congestion with parents knowing they got a free bus service.

Originally posted by "DaBouncer"

...Tories were the same. And I just added in the Lib-Dem before you gave me more of your immense knowledge which just reads to me as 'blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah' :headbang:

That almost sounds like an insult, but I'm not sure so unless you (or anyone else) care(s) to elucidate, I'm not touching it.[/img]
It's not an insult... just an observation that your posts are like epics and full of big words I don't understand so I don't bother to read em anymore.
To me it's just a big mass of BLAH!

(nice and short)
www.dictionary.com.
takes a second. It's not the OED but it gives an adequate definition of most words, I have found it very useful.

That's the first thing I do when I come across a word I don't understand. Look it up.

And you're saying I have immense knowledge? Well, I guess I'm flattered but you are wrong. I try to spend as much time with other people who do though, in the hope some of it rubs off. And you know what? It does.

Originally posted by "Internetowl"

just to put my oar in. for the last two weeks whilst the kids have been off school, the roads have been 100% easier. I note today that the roads aren't too bad even without the mainline buses...so perhaps its the buses that cause the problem.

Whenever you see a queue of traffic, its always fronted by a mainline or private bus spewing dirt out into the atmosphere, yet motorists get the blame for pollution. Try testing a bus for once?

:P

All motor vehicles spew dirt.

In the mornings in sheffield, you will frequently see queues and queues of cars with one person in each, and buses full to the brim.

the sums are pretty conclusive

60 bus passengers - 1 diesel engine. 40 linear feet of roadspace
60 Car passengers - 60 petrol and diesel engines nearly 1000ft of roadspace.

So I think it would be fair to say that buses are a vast improvement over cars in terms of both pollution and road congestion (and road safety). Motorists (and I am one) quite properly get the blame for motor vehicle pollution because they cause most of it.

To be fair though, a lot of the buses on the roads are VERY old and noisy, and if they had their emmissions checked out I'm sure they'd be astronomical.

Originally posted by "t020"

To be fair though, a lot of the buses on the roads are VERY old and noisy, and if they had their emmissions checked out I'm sure they'd be astronomical.

One way to get their emissions checked is to report them to the Vehicle Pollution Inspectorate on 0113 288 7818.

We can do our little bit to make the world better.

Originally posted by "Phanerothyme"


(nice and short)
www.dictionary.com.
takes a second. It's not the OED but it gives an adequate definition of most words, I have found it very useful.

That's the first thing I do when I come across a word I don't understand. Look it up.

And you're saying I have immense knowledge? Well, I guess I'm flattered but you are wrong. I try to spend as much time with other people who do though, in the hope some of it rubs off. And you know what? It does.
Fairy Snuff... I will have to keep that one on file!
Look if it aint in Roger's Profanisaurus... it aint worth lookin up! :P

Originally posted by "t020"

To be fair though, a lot of the buses on the roads are VERY old and noisy, and if they had their emmissions checked out I'm sure they'd be astronomical.

To be fair to the bus companies, even though they're not saints, they have been steadily replacing the old rickety things with nice modern ones. There are a lot fewer blacksmoking doubledeckers around than there were when I first moved to sheffield.

And surely buses must have MOT which includes emission tests.

My diesel passed an emission test, which was amazing considering the amount of smokey exhaust. But visible smoke just means particulates.

A lot of the most dangerous pollutants are invisible gases like carbon monoxide and N02, which are the things that help make that nice yellow fug you can see hovering over sheffield centre on a still and sunny afternoon.

A lot of the most dangerous pollutants are invisible gases like carbon monoxide and N02, which are the things that help make that nice yellow fug you can see hovering over sheffield centre on a still and sunny afternoon.

Mmm...nice. Weren't we the cleanest industrial city in Europe once upon a time?

I can understand your point of walking, but what about here in Australia. I have been on roads here that it is more than 300 miles to the next town and you might be lucky to see one other car, I think then the satallite navigation system would be handy if you broke down.

Originally posted by Moon Maiden
Just a thought, but have you noticed when a wanring goes out from a school about a vehicle and it's occupants trying to entice youngsters the car is ALWAYS white??

Moon Maiden

Yeah, and usually a CAVALIER. Correct?

It costs me less than £3 to take my wife and three kids into town by car and that includes 2 hours parking.
If we went by bus it would cost about £5.50 AND we'd have to hump our shopping aboard a cramped bus.
No contest really.
Anyone else find it cheaper by car than bus?

Going back to the road pricing the idea is road tax disc is scrapped and instead you get charged for how much you use the road, so those people who leave their car at home and use public transport where reasonable pay less road tax to compensate. Also the road charges would be higher at peak time, including school run time, and discounted at quieter times, to sting those causing traffic jams and encourage car use at less busy times.

The current proposal is for a test site in London, as the next logical progression from congestion charging.

As for school buses, most secondary schools have dedicated school bus services (normally numbered 7xx) as well as frequent school buses, and school kids can get a pass to travel for only 40p. As for primary schools they are normally within walking distance, so frankly in 99% of cases there is no excuse for driving kids to school in the city.

Originally posted by markham
It costs me less than £3 to take my wife and three kids into town by car and that includes 2 hours parking.
If we went by bus it would cost about £5.50 AND we'd have to hump our shopping aboard a cramped bus.
No contest really.
Anyone else find it cheaper by car than bus?

Is that factoring in road tax, insurance and general wear on the car as well as fuel and parking?

But, even with these added, the convenience factor outweighs the bus every time.

Originally posted by alchresearch
Is that factoring in road tax, insurance and general wear on the car as well as fuel and parking?

But, even with these added, the convenience factor outweighs the bus every time.

Yes alchresearch.
Fuel @ 10p per mile =40p
Car parking (2hrs) = £1.80
The other 80p or so more than compensates for wear and tear for the 20 minutes or less my car's moving.
Road tax/insurance I'd still be paying even if the car's parked up and us on the bus. I don't have a choice in that matter.

Originally posted by Mo
I am one of those people and even if my kids went to our catchment school I would still use my car as it is almost 2 miles away.

2 miles! crikey no wonder your kids need a lift. It is a well known fact that walking any distance over 8 feet can actually cause children's legs to fall off.

I wonder if anyone has solved the problem of how to get from the front door to the car without having to walk all the way?:D

Originally posted by Dadda
2 miles! crikey no wonder your kids need a lift. It is a well known fact that walking any distance over 8 feet can actually cause children's legs to fall off.

I wonder if anyone has solved the problem of how to get from the front door to the car without having to walk all the way?:D
Segway!

Originally posted by Dadda
2 miles! crikey no wonder your kids need a lift. It is a well known fact that walking any distance over 8 feet can actually cause children's legs to fall off.

I wonder if anyone has solved the problem of how to get from the front door to the car without having to walk all the way?:D

Very funny haha.

What you fail to realise is that with one child in school and the other in nursery I would be walking 16 miles per day......

Take elder child to school 2 miles
walk back 2 miles
Take child to nursery 2 miles
walk back 2 miles
collect child from nursery 2 miles
walk back 2 miles
collect elder child 2 miles
walk back 2 miles

TOTAL 16 miles

Highly impractical I think you'll agree!

yes - not knowing the additional facts you added does make my original implied suggestion unrealistic.

However the point I was making was that many people feel justified in driving if they can't see the school gates from their window.

Being in a car culture we feel able to make choices about where our kids go to school/nursery, where we work, live, shop etc. that depend on cars.

With the growth of cheap air travel some people will choose to live hundreds of miles from where they work. If in the future the govt. starts taxing air fuel then these people will complain because 'I've got no choice - I live in Edinburgh and work in London - I need/have a right to fly cheaply'.

Everyone agrees that we don't want to live in a world dominated by shiny metal boxes - but very few individuals are prepared to live close to their work etc. or otherwise choose to forgoe their 'right' to drive whenever they want to.

I am comming round to the view that we need to tax people off the roads as well as improve public transport.

Originally posted by Dadda
2 miles! crikey no wonder your kids need a lift. It is a well known fact that walking any distance over 8 feet can actually cause children's legs to fall off.

I wonder if anyone has solved the problem of how to get from the front door to the car without having to walk all the way?:D

Obviously don't care about having fat and idle kids.

Walking around where I live is extremely dangerous due to the inconsiderate people from other areas using my road as a shortcut to work. I think that's every reason to use my car to transport my children to their school. Why should mothers have to walk so you can drive to work? Are you saying your job is more important than my kids education?

You try crossing several major roads with two kids on foot in the rush hour!

We all pay our road tax and can use our cars as we bloody well like.

Originally posted by wearetherobots

You try crossing several major roads with two kids on foot in the rush hour!

We all pay our road tax and can use our cars as we bloody well like.

Unfortunately you cant continue to use your car how you like.

The school run seems to be generally acknowlaged as the major cause of congestion, so you can bet your life that a government will see it as an easy target to make a tangible difference.

Also, why dont you teach your kids how to use roads so that you know they are safe when you're not there. Then they can WALK TO SCHOOL ON THIER OWN!:thumbsup:

Originally posted by wearetherobots
We all pay our road tax and can use our cars as we bloody well like.
including:
people from other areas using my road as a shortcut to work presumably?

Originally posted by wearetherobots
Walking around where I live is extremely dangerous due to the inconsiderate people from other areas using my road as a shortcut to work. I think that's every reason to use my car to transport my children to their school. Why should mothers have to walk so you can drive to work? Are you saying your job is more important than my kids education?

You try crossing several major roads with two kids on foot in the rush hour!

We all pay our road tax and can use our cars as we bloody well like.

Perhaps if the council spent money installing pedestrian crossings rather than paving residential streets with speed bumps this might not be a problem!

Originally posted by Andy C
Perhaps if the council spent money installing pedestrian crossings rather than paving residential streets with speed bumps this might not be a problem!

Pedestrian crossings aren't going to persuade people to abandon their cars but speed bumps will make them think twice about using a rat-run.

Since Stradbroke Road got the treatment i'd rather use an alternative route to get from Woodhouse to Richmond than suffer that.

Originally posted by alchresearch
Pedestrian crossings aren't going to persuade people to abandon their cars but speed bumps will make them think twice about using a rat-run.

Since Stradbroke Road got the treatment i'd rather use an alternative route to get from Woodhouse to Richmond than suffer that.
I agree. I used to use Carterknowle Road to get across to the Woodseats side of the city but since they put the speed bumps in I prefer using Abbeydale Road and cutting up thru' Nether Edge to/from Hunters Bar.

Ever noticed how few residents where there are speedbumps complain about them?

Originally posted by alchresearch

Since Stradbroke Road got the treatment i'd rather use an alternative route to get from Woodhouse to Richmond than suffer that.


Perfectly true. Travelling down that road is now an uncomfortable nightmare.