http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/5138424.stm

It is good to read that finally we seem to overcome the yob element in some of our travelling fans.
Could this I wonder, be anything to do with ordinary people claiming flag back for ourselves.
They are deprived of a banner to rally under, and have skulked away.
For good I hope :thumbsup:

Good, but what gets me is... If they can do it over there, why can't they behave here in their own Country? :loopy:

See the drunks in Sheffield thread for my thoughts otherwise.

Good, but what gets me is... If they can do it over there, why can't they behave here in their own Country? :loopy:

See the drunks in Sheffield thread for my thoughts otherwise.

Because all the known trouble makers had to surrender their passports so the hooligan element were kept in the UK.

Be under no illusions, the only reason RELATIVE peace was maintained was because we didnt come up against countries with large and/or agressive followings. There were still hundreds of arrests for disorder, although this is nothing compared to the 500 arrested in ONE NIGHT when Germany + Poland played.

If we had played Germany/Poland/Holland/Russia/Turkey there would have been serious disorder. That is a FACT.

Be under no illusions, the only reason RELATIVE peace was maintained was because we didnt come up against countries with large and/or agressive followings. There were still hundreds of arrests for disorder, although this is nothing compared to the 500 arrested in ONE NIGHT when Germany + Poland played.

If we had played Germany/Poland/Holland/Russia/Turkey there would have been serious disorder. That is a FACT.

There's no need to be under any illusions... hooliganism is past England now. That there is little doubt. It's just binge drinking that's a problem.

This isn't anything new... the only arrests in Portugal '04 were binge drinkers away from where the games were played.

The fact is England were playing in Germany. The arrests, mostly when no crimes had been commited, tended to be after small scuffles with Germans anyway. Who also come out with a few genuine crimes commited.

Of the 6,000 arrests made since the tournament began June 9 just 711 were English... this with England having as much as 20 times the fans of opposing teams.

If they'd have played Poland there'd have been the same amount of trouble as there always is when we play them... zero. Likewise the rest of the teams (possibly Turkey excepted but they weren't good enough to be in the WC and their fans are ten times worse when at home).

Though it must irk football haters England fans behave when abroad now and it's only 0.01% - quite literally that let the nation down.

This has been replicated by EPL teams who are actually doing the continent of europe proud, playing in all potential hostile nations and coming out on top... despite provacation by some nations people.

Will add as well, the trouble only starts at home when the working classes are priced out of tickets abroad.

FIFA should continue this stance and so what if Liverpool and other downbeat areas descend into chaos.

Another thing pricing them out did was there was no booing of other nations anthems for the first time ever. Thankfully Wembley have the same policy.

Not least because the middle-classes sing louder and know the words to the National Anthem. Maybe during the rioting in Liverpool and elsewhere with the big TVs the scroungers may have as well? we can all but wish.

Before only 1/3 of kids knew it... that proportion surely has increased now!

Will add as well, the trouble only starts at home when the working classes are priced out of tickets abroad.

FIFA should continue this stance and so what if Liverpool and other downbeat areas descend into chaos.

Another thing pricing them out did was there was no booing of other nations anthems for the first time ever. Thankfully Wembley have the same policy.

Not least because the middle-classes sing louder and know the words to the National Anthem. Maybe during the rioting in Liverpool and elsewhere with the big TVs the scroungers may have as well? we can all but wish.

Before only 1/3 of kids knew it... that proportion surely has increased now!

Either you have just exited the pub on the back of a heavy session, you're a 'comedy character', or you have severe mental issues!

I'm not sure what on god's green earth you are talking about and it certainly makes no sense whatsoever - but it's definitely entertaining, so it's a big thumbs up from me! It's always good to read a real 'WTF' post

:)

Either you have just exited the pub on the back of a heavy session, you're a 'comedy character', or you have severe mental issues!

I'm not sure what on god's green earth you are talking about and it certainly makes no sense whatsoever - but it's definitely entertaining, so it's a big thumbs up from me! It's always good to read a real 'WTF' post

:)

The post was based entirely on fact.

With FIFA pricing the working classes out the stadiums, apart from a small select throng, there has been no booing of other teams National Anthems. Wembley has a similiar policy, though just doesn't admit it.

Those that could afford, with no real effort, a pillaged ticket price raised their vocals to levels not heard before... and long may it continue. With gloried renditions of God Save The Queen unheard of in putrid UK areas where all the trouble started with the big screens.

The post was based entirely on fact.

With FIFA pricing the working classes out the stadiums, apart from a small select throng, there has been no booing of other teams National Anthems. Wembley has a similiar policy, though just doesn't admit it.

Those that could afford with no real effort a pillaged price raised their vocals to levels not heard before... and long may it continue.

So wrong you're off the radar. I think the 'Wembley' comment just about sums up your apparent knowledge.

FIFA isn't pricing anyone out. Official prices are within the reach of the ordinary fan, but there are very few available because of FIFA's disgusting profiteering policies.

But still, the resolute working classes - who have single-handedly ensured that there is a game called 'football' of which there is a 'World Cup' that know-nothing bores like yourself spout utter rot about - will do and pay just about anything to get a ticket.

There has been no middle-class invasion of the national team, save for the sponsor whores.

Not sure what the whole national anthem thing is all about. Very surreal - I suggest staying off the hard drugs.

The post was based entirely on fact.

With FIFA pricing the working classes out the stadiums, apart from a small select throng, there has been no booing of other teams National Anthems. Wembley has a similiar policy, though just doesn't admit it.

Those that could afford, with no real effort, a pillaged ticket price raised their vocals to levels not heard before... and long may it continue. With gloried renditions of God Save The Queen unheard of in putrid UK areas where all the trouble started with the big screens.


Your talking a load of crap to be honest!!!

Putrid uk areas??? there was trouble in manchester and liverpool? is that where you mean?

you have no idea what your talking about and your struggleing to see past your st george's flag tinted spectacles!

since the tournament began June 9 just 711 were English.....

I think we can all join in congratulating the England fans on only having 711 people arrested in 3 weeks, a stunning record. Surely the rest of Europe can't know think of England fans as hooligans when as few as 700 were locked up. These idiots could be sent home immedaitely by bus in a convoy of as few as 20 busses.

I think we can all join in congratulating the England fans on only having 711 people arrested in 3 weeks, a stunning record. Surely the rest of Europe can't know think of England fans as hooligans when as few as 700 were locked up. These idiots could be sent home immedaitely by bus in a convoy of as few as 20 busses.
Total of other countries locked up equals 6000.
Thats only about 11 per cent of the total locked up.
Of the actual fans who went it is only about 0.2 percent of the total.
Come on thats not too bad :)

Total of other countries locked up equals 6000.
Thats only about 11 per cent of the total locked up.
Of the actual fans who went it is only about 0.2 percent of the total.
Come on thats not too bad :)

I am staggered that 6000 are locked up! I am equality staggered that someone could use a thread title of "our fans behave" and then talk about 711 arrests. Lets not also forget that after the England team lost there were attacks on the Portugese in Jersey which meant the Jersey police used riot gear for only the second time in their existance. Yes, Jersey! where the average age is 115 and the speed limit is 40mph.

I am staggered that 6000 are locked up! I am equality staggered that someone could use a thread title of "our fans behave" and then talk about 711 arrests. Lets not also forget that after the England team lost there were attacks on the Portugese in Jersey which meant the Jersey police used riot gear for only the second time in their existance. Yes, Jersey! where the average age is 115 and the speed limit is 40mph.

What amazes me about that is why they went to a place like Jersey to start with.
But then again a small holiday resort in northern Wales was recently smashed up by 500 youths.
Perhaps as the main thugs arent allowed out of the country, they are going to places within the UK to carry on their stupid antics.
And yes I do consider that to be behaving very well indeed.
Do you honestly think that you can put together thousands of people and not get some friction?
All people are not as unagressive and gentile as your self, and when the see a real or imagined slight, can take exeption.
Most of the offences were not for violence BTW.
They were public order offences e.g. shouting and bawling and being a pain in the backside.
A bit like Ronaldo really:D

ken- Im afraid we don't live in a perfect world and when you get large groups of drunken males together (thats a stereotype i know) then you are bound to get some trouble caused by idiots!!!

I think that only 711 arrests (and most of these were preventative arrests before anything happened) out of 315,000 people is a great achievment compared to other tournaments!!!

Don't get me wrong- it can (and will) get better but one step at a time.

ken- Im afraid we don't live in a perfect world and when you get large groups of drunken males together (thats a stereotype i know) then you are bound to get some trouble caused by idiots!!!

I think that only 711 arrests (and most of these were preventative arrests before anything happened) out of 315,000 people is a great achievment compared to other tournaments!!!

Don't get me wrong- it can (and will) get better but one step at a time.

Are you saying that there were 315,000 England fans in Germany? This sounds completely over the top to me. On the television I heard reports of 50,000 "fans" but many of these will have been families.

thats in total over the course of the tournament, approx 63,000 at each game- thats about right.

why do you say 'fans'?? do you relly hate england that much- or do you just not like football and your annoyed its moved your beloved coronation street off its regular 7.30 spot?

Are you saying that there were 315,000 England fans in Germany? This sounds completely over the top to me. On the television I heard reports of 50,000 "fans" but many of these will have been families.

Yup - and I would agree - there were 50,000 in the stadium for the first game Ken. You can't deny there were more outisde the ground, in the fan parks etc.

thats in total over the course of the tournament, approx 63,000 at each game- thats about right.

why do you say 'fans'?? do you relly hate england that much- or do you just not like football and your annoyed its moved your beloved coronation street off its regular 7.30 spot?

I don't hate England, in fact I live here. I don't like fotball as it is full of over paid prima donnas as I believe their performance showed. I don't watch Coronation Street, or any other such programmes. I do find the mass hysteria and petty nationalism slightly offensive.

I don't hate England, in fact I live here. I don't like fotball as it is full of over paid prima donnas as I believe their performance showed. I don't watch Coronation Street, or any other such programmes. I do find the mass hysteria and petty nationalism slightly offensive.


Offensive to what?

As far as I can tell from Germany, it was very nice.
I was in Cologne and Bremen / Bremerhaven and what you've seen there is lots of people from all over the world, having fun just like friends. It didn't matter which flag they were waving or which nationality they are - It was / is great!

I don't like fotball as it is full of over paid prima donnas as I believe their performance showed.

Sorry Ken, your beliefs are unfounded.

...Didn't a load of England fans end up throwing chairs and bottles around after one of the matches? I heard that around a hundred of them got sent home, and saw a nasty picture of a German man who'd had his nose broken.

...Didn't a load of England fans end up throwing chairs and bottles around after one of the matches? I heard that around a hundred of them got sent home, and saw a nasty picture of a German man who'd had his nose broken.
This was in Stuttgart and Germans were also involved, the only bad example - besides the German Amok- driver in Berlin yesterday.

I think the real difference is in how the tournament has been organised. Fans without tickets are usually told to stay away but not this time. In addition, by setting up the fan parks, with big screen TV's, the authorities have created a fantastic atmosphere, with fans able to gather to watch matches together rather than be crammed into numerous small bars. The police have acted sensibly, taking action when necessary but in a calm and controlled manner. Think back to batten charges at fans, in an intense and alcohol fuelled atmosphere, and it's easy to understand why some react as they do (I do not condone such behaviour in any way, shape or form; I merely comment on how it can sometimes develop.) The German police have moved slowly, surrounding groups and then peacefully moving in to arrest them. I did read that on one occasion, when 100 were arrested, the police took an hour to move in slowly and surround the fans. Anyone wishing to leave could walk peacefully through and away - as any sensible person should do. Of those 'detained', many were released to go to the match the next day as they had tickets. No riots, little fighting but a great atmosphere created by the fans that the German public have genuinely welcomed.
There is definatley a lesson for future tournaments in managing the fans although I can't see the South African authorities having the same degree of tolerance.

There is definatley a lesson for future tournaments in managing the fans although I can't see the South African authorities having the same degree of tolerance.

Good point but i don't think that the same number of people will be able to afford to go to SA in 4 years time.

(if its actually going to be held there!!)

Hmmh...not sure, but doesn't FIFA organise it also for/ in South Africa, too?
So why should it be different, when it was a great success in this year?

FIFA do indeed organise the tournament - ie. the football side of things. They have no say in the policing and public order side of things and it was to this that I was referring when I spoke of the SA authorities. I have no doubt that the football side of things will be much the same.

there are rumours that there not going to get there act together in time with regards to the stadiums and the power needed to supply them.

fifa are worried and are looking at contingency plans just in case!!

FIFA do indeed organise the tournament - ie. the football side of things. They have no say in the policing and public order side of things and it was to this that I was referring when I spoke of the SA authorities. I have no doubt that the football side of things will be much the same.
True, here is everything well organised, not only from FIFA and on the other Hand, in South Afrika will surly be a very different audience. But four years is a long time and I think we are a good example here in Europe.

there are rumours that there not going to get there act together in time with regards to the stadiums and the power needed to supply them.

fifa are worried and are looking at contingency plans just in case!!
Rumours are rumours - let's wait and see.
I am sure that we here in Europe will have those "screen-party's" again, cause who really wants/can effort to go to South Afrika, just for watching games - if the WC really should happen there.

There's no need to be under any illusions... hooliganism is past England now. That there is little doubt. It's just binge drinking that's a problem.

This isn't anything new... the only arrests in Portugal '04 were binge drinkers away from where the games were played.

The fact is England were playing in Germany. The arrests, mostly when no crimes had been commited, tended to be after small scuffles with Germans anyway. Who also come out with a few genuine crimes commited.

Of the 6,000 arrests made since the tournament began June 9 just 711 were English... this with England having as much as 20 times the fans of opposing teams.

If they'd have played Poland there'd have been the same amount of trouble as there always is when we play them... zero. Likewise the rest of the teams (possibly Turkey excepted but they weren't good enough to be in the WC and their fans are ten times worse when at home).

Though it must irk football haters England fans behave when abroad now and it's only 0.01% - quite literally that let the nation down.

This has been replicated by EPL teams who are actually doing the continent of europe proud, playing in all potential hostile nations and coming out on top... despite provacation by some nations people.

Biggest load of tripe i've read all day.

Let me spell it out for you, in great detail.

Football Hooliganism isnt a thing of the past. It may not be as wide spread as it was, and may well be on a smaller scale, but is far more nasty and organised than it ever was. Banning orders can stop hooligans attending games, but they cant stop them having a 60 a side tear up in a carpark on the outskirts of the city. FACT. Just ask the barstaff of the Gypsy Queen or the British Oak?

What about the Harley Hotel, RSVP, Yates, Swim Inn, Varsity all of which regularly have to shut on police advice on a matchday. Tell it to the Police Officer who has to sit in his little box in the Northern General A+E on a Saturday night in the Football Season.

Hooliganism is rife. At Wolverhampton recently upto 250 Cardiff fans were causing trouble INSIDE THE GROUND. When Stoke played Birmingham there was trouble involving upto 400 fans. In Nottingham, 40 Mansfield and 60 Shrewsbury had an organised meet, for which 20 Mansfield are in Court for it soon, and a boozer was damaged and shut for 3 weeks. Only 2 years ago 80 Wednesday fans went on the rampage in Doncaster, leading to 40+ dawn raids. Wednesday took 200+ prominent supporters intent on causing trouble to Millwall last season. Millwall took 150 to Bramall Lane.

Need anymore?

The only reason England didnt kick off PROPERLY is because they never came up against a country with a Hooligan problem. There are pictures doing the rounds of mobs of English fans being held back by the German Police to prevent them from smashing up German Bars. Do a bit of research on the net, its there to see.

You can deny it all you want, but you are kidding yourself and burying your head in the sand. Take it from someone in a position to know.

If we had played Poland there would have been RIOTS. Look on the Net for pictures when England went there in the 90's, there's even pictures of certain well known Sheff Utd. faces being carted off in Ambulances. They, along with Russia, Turkey, Greece, Holland, Spain, France, Germany, Italy, Serbia, Argentina, Brazil et al have very real hooligan problems domestically. Poland and Germany turned out in big numbers at the world cup, look at their arrest figures.

Binge drinking cant be blamed for 50 Rangers and 80 Hibs meeting up in a back street of DUNDEE and fighting for nearly 5 minutes before the police turned up. Nor can it be blamed for the rest of the problem.

Wake up eh mate?

Well, Navigator, you have spelt out a problem that you percieve, and seem to revel in.
What do you suggest as an answer to it?

Banning orders are certainly doing a good job, and the threat of CCTV has virtually stopped trouble in city centres.

But short of placing the most serious offenders under house arrest on matchdays, i dont think you will ever kill it. The only thing that will completley stop it will be the emergence of a new scene, just like the ecstacy/rave scene killed it for a few years in the early 90's.

Anyway, funding for the NCIS + Liason PO's who follow the mobs about and work with intelligence runs out next year, so unless the Government can be convinced to keep it going and not think like some that the problem has "gone away", some people are in for a great shock.

The only reason England didnt kick off PROPERLY is because they never came up against a country with a Hooligan problem. There are pictures doing the rounds of mobs of English fans being held back by the German Police to prevent them from smashing up German Bars. Do a bit of research on the net, its there to see.

Just don't agree. Sure, there's pictures doing the rounds on the net... but like a GERMAN newspaper pointed out, those articles that were pounced on for a few English fans misbehaving totally ignored the thousands of English and German fans partying together just around the corner.

and as for research i've been searching "english fans" and "english hooligans" daily since the WC began on both Google News and Google Blogs. The reporting has been typical from nations that like to have a dig like the Aussies and Americans. Yet, ultimately, they admit English fans behaved. The percentage of English arrested speaks for itself.

Besides, the only reporting which really matters is of the hosts as they are reporting from "as is" perspective, rather than any other foreign media outlets wanting to further untrue prejudice that the English are hooligans. Fact is the Germans, whilst bemused about the binge drinking, even report the foreign media have been unfairly trying to tarnish English fans when it just isn't true.

The English fans have done wonders for Anglo-German relations, as have the Germans being genial hosts.

Then that's ignoring the Korean media outlet that gave England fans 50 euros to throw bottles and look mean so they could get a pic. (think it was for the first game) How many more media outlets did? and what if those pics are doing the rounds on the net?

As for domestic trouble, well it happens. Just the other week Donny Rovers and Sheff U fans were jailed for joining together to batter Rotherham U fans (rightly.. joke) Again, it's a minority and families are perfectly safe going to games. If someone had took a pic it wouldn't have changed anything...it was still 5 or 6 people out of tens of thousands of real fans and a pic wouldn't have changed the fact they were safe as the decaying last straggles of domestic hooligans only go for each other.

Incorrect. The Sheff Utd fans involved in that incident walked away with Community Service and a Curfew.

As for the Majority behaving - thats ALWAYS been the case. But dont you for one second think that out of the 80,000 that were over there, there wasnt around 2,000 ticketless fans who went purely for the bother that WOULD have happened had we played a country with a hooligan element.

You dont come across as someone who is stupid, but you are clearly talking about a subject that you know very little about. You are talking from personal opinion and it just isnt washing with me (talking from a professional and personal capacity). I have never been to Turkey so i would never post in a thread where someone wants info on Turkey. Nor would i post on a Harry Potter thread, as i have never seen the films.

So please stop posting about a subject you clearly know very little about.

If Millwall went to Leyton Orient, Reading, Crewe, Swindon and Rotherham - the chances are there would be very little trouble. But if they played Cardiff, Stoke, Birmingham, Burnley, Tottenham, Middlesbrough, Chelsea there would be widespread disorder.

That example fits the WC perfectly.

Given England are out of the World Cup and the facts stand before me i'm entitled to express those views. The same results happened in Portugal '04 so i'm in possession of very real evidence.

Clearly you work in some way in law enforcement but you're going on the basis of "what ifs" with regards to the WC. The liason officers over in Germany plus the various German Mayors and other senior German officials totally disagree on top of FIFA. Binge drinkers, yes - hooligans no.

Domestically you might be right, but haven't seen any real evidence that supposed troublesome clubs really do cause that much trouble. Certainly families flock to football games in record numbers for all domestic teams and that just wouldn't happen if there was this supposed threat of trouble like the "bad old days".

It's just a case of looking at a pub (or stadium) full of people as England fans, rather than potential but rare drunk-drivers or even rarer hooligans. Unfortunately the foreign media nor factions of England can do neither.

English Glory, take no notice. I thought he knew what he was on about, until I discovered he is only 19 years old.
He should be learning from his elders, not arguing.

Navigator, Football Hooliganism is not something to be proud of. They are the lowest of the low, and not people to be gloryfied.

Biggest load of tripe i've read all day.


The only reason England didnt kick off PROPERLY is because they never came up against a country with a Hooligan problem. There are pictures doing the rounds of mobs of English fans being held back by the German Police to prevent them from smashing up German Bars. Do a bit of research on the net, its there to see.

You can deny it all you want, but you are kidding yourself and burying your head in the sand. Take it from someone in a position to know.

I

We can always find on the net what we want to read - depends on the research.
What you said just shows that you probably spent only too much times for researches instead of seeing the facts (which doesn't mean reading the sun)
Have you been there when you know everything so well???

The England fans abroad may not have caused much bother, but many of them still embarrass me. The t-shirts, hard hats and songs about German bombers are offensive and pathetic, as is the casual racism.

I've seen it, first-hand, before anyone bites back. It may well have been 'better' in Germany, but we're talking in relative terms. It is still far from 'good'.

The England fans abroad may not have caused much bother, but many of them still embarrass me. The t-shirts, hard hats and songs about German bombers are offensive and pathetic, as is the casual racism.

I've seen it, first-hand, before anyone bites back. It may well have been 'better' in Germany, but we're talking in relative terms. It is still far from 'good'.

I agree, I was only saying how comparatively well they have behaved.
I would keep a distance of about a hundred yards between myself and any gang of drunken football supporters.
it only takes one wrong look and that happy go lucky throng can turn into a violent mob.
As someone said earlier, the police have handled it very well up to now

English Glory, take no notice. I thought he knew what he was on about, until I discovered he is only 19 years old.
He should be learning from his elders, not arguing.

Navigator, Football Hooliganism is not something to be proud of. They are the lowest of the low, and not people to be gloryfied.

Being 19 years of age does not mean im stupid - if you think being older than me makes you right, your marking yourself out as a plank.

And tell me ONCE where i glorified it?

I bet you cant..

Take that as a no shall i :rolleyes:

Where did your supposed extensive knowledge come from then which you claimed? surely not a misfit St John's Ambulance volunteer?

Being 19 years of age does not mean im stupid - if you think being older than me makes you right, your marking yourself out as a plank.

And tell me ONCE where i glorified it?

I bet you cant..
Sorry for late reply only just looked at this page again, Yes it does make me right, because I am always right.
My opinions are the correct ones, and everyone should heed them.
The world be a better place (for me at any rate) :cool:

I take it you two watched Panorama last night then?

My extensive knowledge comes from personal experience working within a BIG law firm.

As the subject of the Panorama programme has been brought up, did anyone see the numpty (of which there were many) England supporter in the red shirt and Burberry baseball cap waving a stick at a lone Brazilian lad - before pouring his pint over him? He was acting so hard with several hundred like-minded prats behind him ... that is until the Brazilian lad moved towards him ......... then he backed away with a sickly, embarrassed grin on his face. What a complete coward that gutless wazzock was. Pity the Brazilian didn't deck him.

Sorry- but I watched the panorama special last night and once again a fraction of our fans let us down again... again with the chants aimed at the germans about the war :roll:, and I though the actions of the fans especially throwing water and booze onto the brazil fan and the tunisian fans as well was particularly disgraceful.

But that went further when the two brazil tshirt wearing women were harassed by our fans with the usual cries of 'get you t*ts out'

This is why I dont go to matches- I dont want to be involved anywere near that culture at all.

Why dont the police get tough fast because every time I see an 'england' fan acting all hard- when it comes to the time when they are getting a pasting from a police truncheon they are all tears and feeling sorry for themselves- its pathetic to watch really.

If you have to start trouble or want to fight at football- its sad and pathetic and its about time boys became men I'm affraid.

i watched the panarama programme and was saddened by brits doing things like that, specially the ****** in the burberry, theyre not proper hooligans, just lager lout chavs that hunt in packs and run when the going gets tough.
i really loled at the bit with the hells angels who started on the police and mostly got arrested.....never knew they "ran" the red light district