"The UK Government is studying license plates with embedded RFID tags. The plates can be read from 300 feet away and in rapid succession by readers embedded in the road or by 'surveillance vehicles.'"

Found at Slashdot (http://slashdot.org/articles/04/06/10/1434227.shtml?tid=126&tid=158&tid=99)

RFID tags are rice grain-sized chips that are embedded into things. Each contains a unique number. The number can be read at some distance by a reader. Various supermarkets are looking at replacing barcodes with RFID.

RFID should be really great for business. Imagine, an office will just need a reader on its entrance and can see what's in everyone's bags and pockets. They'll know who's on what medication and who to try and sneakily fire.

Shops will be able to see what things you've bought in other shops. They'll know when you last visited by recording the RFID in your shoes.

And the government will be able to track your every move..

the main use for cars is not for tracking, it's to stop insurance and car tax fraud, i'm all for that.

re: shops, imagine how useful to a business, to read all your rfid tags (if you can't be bothered to buy something to fry them) only to find out that all they have is a load of serial numbers. Without the database that matches those serial numbers, they've learnt nothing. Nor of course can they associate those serials with you in person, because of everyone else stood with 30 feet. duh.

In the case of vehicles, there is no need to introduce RFID to stop fraud. The police are already trialling number plate readers that they set up at the side of the road and then they flag over any cars the no tax/insurance or that are wanted for some reason. RFID simply is not necessary to help that. It would, however, be very useful in tracking a car's whereabouts.

Re buying something to fry tags: Why should you have to? How do you know the tag is fried? The specification states that tags can be made "dormant" (in which case you might think it's fried) but can be reactivated. As they can be invisibly hidden, you have no option of removing them.

Re unique codes on products: It depends on the numbering scheme. I'd think it would likely be several identifiers joined together: manuacturer ID + product ID + batch number/serial no. So it will be possible to recognise a product from a subset of the number. There will be comprehensive product databases because there will be a market for them.

Re knowing who is holding what tags: It's not difficult to get people into single file, eg through doorways so you can get a reading then. Alternatively you could put three detectors in a room and triangulate the results to get exact positions. Alternatively you could use a process of elimination where you see the same tag a few times in a day but there is only one person in common. Or all three. It's not difficult.

With the exception of reducing shoplifting, I can't think of many situations where RFID is genuinely beneficial and where another technology isn't as good. I can think of many privacy issues surrounding it. I love technology, but not technology for its own sake.

I'll resist the urge to be childish by ending my post with "duh to you too".

Originally posted by garrence
"The UK Government is studying license plates with embedded RFID tags. The plates can be read from 300 feet away and in rapid succession by readers embedded in the road or by 'surveillance vehicles.'"

Sounds a bit silly to me, whats to stop you changing your license plate to a non-RFID tag one :confused:

in cars i think it would be a good idea to put them things in. esp if they can be read by readers in the road so they can be identified. So if you car is stolen they can track it instantly. it would also be good if it is attached to the engine dso that it can act as an imobaliser

Yeah I was wondering about changing plates to a non-RFID one. Presumably you'd have to buy from abroad or a dodgy dealer as it would be illegal to sell them here? These things are often launches with a loophole like that because it causes less protest - if there's a workaround then people just say "why bother protesting, I'll just use the loophole". Then the technology gets introduced, then the loophole gets closed a few years later. It's easier to get public acceptance that way.

Yes it may be a way to track stolen cars. Except that you can already buy radio tracking devices if you want one. Or not buy one if you don't want one. The idea of compulsory tracking raises many privacy concerns.

The transmitters fitted in cars by insurance companies are not 100% effective. Cars are often tracked as far as Scotland and then they just dissapear. If the device is as small as a grain of rice wouldn't it be a better idea to hide the device somewhere inside the car? They say the plate shatters if someone trys to mess with it... does this mean if you have a minor bump your plates are gonna explode? Kids hitting the plates for a laugh or a football hitting your car etc. Also blocking the transmission would be possible and what if you had a number of other stolen plates inside your vehicle etc? Personally I can't see this working, it just sounds like an idea someones come up with to try and sell to the Government and make as much cash as possible. Give it a few months and someone will have broken the encryption for definate.

It would be illegal to have a non rfid'd number plate.

If your theory is correct then bar codes would work in any pos, they do not. There is no giant database available with every barcode in it, each shop or chain programs it's own systems to associate the prices and type of goods with the unique barcode on the products they sell.

I agree that you shouldn't have to buy a device to destroy rfid's, but if you are concerned you could. There would be no question as to whether it had worked, you send out a radio signal thats several orders of magnitude too strong and it induces a current surge in the device, frying it.

Number plates can easily be cloned or alterted fooling the automatic recognition system, the rfid would be an order of magnitude harder to clone and the devices to check it would be set up permanently.

You are worrying about nothing with the shopping/privacy issue. If you are asked to stand in single file whilst walking down the pavement and to provide your personal details (otherwise they know nothing to associate the items with you) would you do it, off course not.

All the information they could collect would be how many people walked past a certain point (assuming a fixed scanner) carrying a given id code (which may not actually be unique as every shop will use their own labelling system). Not much use as information goes.

Final point, triangulation would be difficult to implement, the way rfid works is to send out an interagoraty signal (could be made directional I suppose...) which provides the power for every rfid tag receiving it to send a response (which is the id that is encoded in it). The response only works over a short range and is omnidirectional.