Just read on the BBC website that the girl who slashed (not once, but twice) 13-year old Shanni’s face with a razor blade has been given a 2 year supervision order. The girl from Myrtle Springs school in Gleadless.

Isn’t it about time judge’s got a bit more strict with punishments?

This extract made my blood boil “The jury was told the defendant had an extremely low IQ and came from Somalia, where it is a cultural practice for women to settle disputes by scratching each other's faces, usually resulting in superficial injuries.”

Is it just me or is there a slight difference between finger nails and razor blades? Isn’t there also cultutal differences between Somalia and England? They failed to explain how long she had lived here, but I bet it was more than a few days. This was a pre-meditated attack and has left a little more than “superficial” injuries. They also said that she had a “low IQ” which obviously means it’s ok to go about cutting up peoples faces. If her IQ is that low and she is a threat to other children, shouldn’t she be in constantly supervised mental care? Why is she allowed to roam around other pupils with sharp instruments in her pockets?

Well done justice system, you’ve got a cracker there.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/5131966.stm?ls

As I understand it this was the culmination of a prolonged bullying campaign against this girl who finally snapped and injured the girl who had severely beaten her the previous day.

The sentence seems totally sensible.

To describe a 13 year old victim of bullying as a psychopath makes no sense to me

Where did you read that? Got a linky? Only says attacked in that article.

I reckon anybody that attempts to cut out somebody's eye with a razor blade should be classed as a psycho.

I heared that the so-called "victim" was in fact a rabid bully who merely reaped what she had sown.
From what I read she was a vicious little cow too, her victim had lost her parents, was a stranger in this country, couldnt afford decent clothes and that was the reason she was picked on, and had learning difficulties to top it all off!
Personally I`d punish the bully who started it all more than the victim.

The full story was in last nights Star.

I have not seen all the evidence so its difficult to say.

However having considered what I do Know the sentence seems reasonable to me.

The child was bullied over a long period.

Of course he cultural back ground is relevant if it's influenced her behaviour.

I am unsure of what they mean by the term "low IQ" and I suspect they mean it to be deliberately ambiguous.

I very much doubt she needs "supervised mental care".

your forgetting to add that the defendant was bullied and beat up by the girl who got slashed - maybe the bully had gone too far this time, and this girl decided not to take any more **** from this bully.

I'll try to get a copy of the star tonight. The BBC failed to highlight these points in that article.

Typical BBC

I reckon anybody that attempts to cut out somebody's eye with a razor blade should be classed as a psycho.

That's harsh and out of context.

People who are bullied can be driven to do things that are out of character in desperation.

There are obviously issues that have been taken into consideration that we are not privy to.

The incident happened a day after the defendant was attacked by Shanni as more than 100 pupils looked on.

A teacher who witnessed the assault, in which Shanni was said to have repeatedly punched the girl's head, described it as "horrendous".

The above has been cut and pasted from the BBC article you posted

Where did you read that? Got a linky? Only says attacked in that article.

Here's one (http://www.sheffieldtoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=58&ArticleID=1595617)

I think the girl who was cut deserved it, she sounds like an evil little bitch, a nasty bully who now might think twice before hounding someone. The Samali girl took some action where as someone else could have been driven to suicide. I am not condoning what she did and am glad that the girl did not loose an eye or anything but the nasty bully got a taste of her own medicine.

Here's one (http://www.sheffieldtoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=58&ArticleID=1595617)
Yeah thats the one I read.

Nasty.

The incident happened a day after the defendant was attacked by Shanni as more than 100 pupils looked on.

A teacher who witnessed the assault, in which Shanni was said to have repeatedly punched the girl's head, described it as "horrendous".

The above was taken from the BBC article quoted there was more on the news last night.

Like I said we don't know the full story.

I do feel sorry for both of them though

I think the girl who was cut deserved it, she sounds like an evil little bitch, a nasty bully who now might think twice before hounding someone. The Samali girl took some action where as someone else could have been driven to suicide. I am not condoning what she did and am glad that the girl did not loose an eye or anything but the nasty bully got a taste of her own medicine.

You just said she deserved it then you're not condoning it.

HEAR HEAR !! seems the little thug got what she deserved. a little over the top maybe but imagine the strees the somali girl had been going through.

That's a better article, although using a razor blade was still pre-meditated and deserves a larger punishment. Had it been her finger-nails in retailiation, or puching/kicking I'd say it was fair, tit-for-tat. But not a blade.

wow - i didnt even hear about the bit where the "victim" of the slashing was actually bullying the "psycho" for months. Bitch got what she deserved!

And as we know, with most bullies, if you hit them back, they'll not pick on you agian!

It seems quite simple to me. The jusy got to sit for a couple of days and heard all the evidence. They then came to a decision that we can't really properly comment on without also hearing all that evidence every day. They seem to have accepted that there were mitigating circumstances but that the girl was still in the wrong.

It seems quite simple to me. The jusy got to sit for a couple of days and heard all the evidence. They then came to a decision that we can't really properly comment on without also hearing all that evidence every day. They seem to have accepted that there were mitigating circumstances but that the girl was still in the wrong.

Hurrah, thats what I was trying to say in a long winded way :thumbsup:

Hmmm... Curious... I seem to remember that at the time of this incident, the school authorities stated categorically that a knife wasn't involved and that it was the blade from a pencil-sharpener that was used to inflict the cuts... Well, They got it half-right, I guess... Damage-limitation untruths, perhaps?

Imagine public reaction if they'd said that one pupil had used a razor-blade on another... "The truth will out", as the saying goes, though they fail to add "...rarely in newspapers"!

Well, one lesson to be learned is that people from different cultures are liable to deal with being bullied in ways that a bully might not expect.... Can't help wondering if the subject of the bullying has had any hassle from fellow-pupils since... Somehow, I doubt it!

sounds like there is more to the story than we first thought.

sounds like there was plenty of bullying going on upto that point - maybe not an excuse - but if Shamy Leather (or whatever she's called) was bullying the other girl, then i'm sure it has tought her a valuable lesson in life. (not that i'm condoning that sort of thing)

wonder how much Shanni made from all the publicity at the time?

I'd like to know why this girl was made to sit in the same classroom as someone who had visciously beaten her in front of 100 witnesses, including teachers, just the day before. Why wasn't this Shanni girl punished for this? Especially as one of the teachers who witnessed it described it as horrendous and that Shanni was punching the girl so that her head would also be hit repeatedly against a wall. It sounds like it could have easily been her in the dock!

Also remember that this girl was just 12 years old when she retaliated. We cannot expect 12 year olds to handle being bullied, physically and emotionally, in the same way as an adult. It sounds like a sensible verdict to me.

if SHAMMI LEATHER was that much of a bully - then she deserved it - everytime she looks in the mirror she will be reminded of the fact that Bullying is wrong!!!

I remember when the original slashing happened, Shani's family were all over the media about their poor innocent little darling. Have the family done the rounds of the news programmes again, discussing the fact that their P.I.L.D. is a vicious bully who picked a vulnerable scapegoat and drove her over the edge? Didn't think so. As the former victim of years of bullying at school, I might have found it illuminating.

I'd like to know why this girl was made to sit in the same classroom as someone who had visciously beaten her in front of 100 witnesses, including teachers, just the day before. Why wasn't this Shanni girl punished for this? Especially as one of the teachers who witnessed it described it as horrendous .

Jonathan Crossley-Holland (from sheffield council) was on the news last night he was asked this question, he said that the teacher had reported it to senior staff and that Shannis parents had be asked to attend a meeting at school.

Well the media has certainly pulled the wool over my eyes. I wonder how many more people were unaware of the "other" facts?

Well the media has certainly pulled the wool over my eyes. I wonder how many more people were unaware of the "other" facts?

To be fair, they were probably 'gagged' from reporting the full facts until the court case. It happens a lot, but for the right reasons. Though I suppose they could announce that they can't mention certain details for legal reasons.

I agree Another Psychopath goes free .. i.e. Shanni Naylor

To qoute the Guardian newspaper (education.guardian.co.uk)

"The three-day trial was told that, the day before the attack, the girl was subjected to a "vicious" assault by Shanni, who punched her repeatedly, banging her head against a wall, as more than 100 pupils looked on without helping."

Jonathan Crossley-Holland (from sheffield council) was on the news last night he was asked this question, he said that the teacher had reported it to senior staff and that Shannis parents had be asked to attend a meeting at school.

Thanks for this. I can't understand why she wasn't instantly suspended pending further action. To let her carry on at school and just get her parents in is ridiculously soft. Especially as her parents seem to believe she's some sort of angel who wouldn't do anything wrong. I am always amazed when viscous assaults are allowed to go unreported to the police simply because they happen between children at school. It's only once it involves some sort of weapon that it gets taken seriously.

Thanks for this. I can't understand why she wasn't instantly suspended pending further action. .

I hope the powers that be have reviewed bullying policies after this incident. I think there are faults in any system that allows this to happen.

Thanks for this. I can't understand why she wasn't instantly suspended pending further action. .

If the school had done something the day before when the "victim" was seen by a teacher to repeatedly punch "slasher" in the head, then this would all never have happened. It is hard to believe that a teacher could see a girl do this and then let her remain in school.

Just read on the BBC website that the girl who slashed (not once, but twice) 13-year old Shanni’s face with a razor blade has been given a 2 year supervision order. The girl from Myrtle Springs school in Gleadless.

Isn’t it about time judge’s got a bit more strict with punishments?

This extract made my blood boil “The jury was told the defendant had an extremely low IQ and came from Somalia, where it is a cultural practice for women to settle disputes by scratching each other's faces, usually resulting in superficial injuries.”

Is it just me or is there a slight difference between finger nails and razor blades? Isn’t there also cultutal differences between Somalia and England? They failed to explain how long she had lived here, but I bet it was more than a few days. This was a pre-meditated attack and has left a little more than “superficial” injuries. They also said that she had a “low IQ” which obviously means it’s ok to go about cutting up peoples faces. If her IQ is that low and she is a threat to other children, shouldn’t she be in constantly supervised mental care? Why is she allowed to roam around other pupils with sharp instruments in her pockets?

Well done justice system, you’ve got a cracker there.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/5131966.stm?ls

As I posted on another forum, that would be part of the defence.
And the interpreter being needed was a total crock - she spoke good enough english when she was ranting away in the court house on wednesday (I was there) I seriously doubt that she is the innocent bullying victim who fought back :suspect:

As I posted on another forum, that would be part of the defence.
And the interpreter being needed was a total crock - she spoke good enough english when she was ranting away in the court house on wednesday (I was there) I seriously doubt that she is the innocent bullying victim who fought back :suspect:

It doesn't much matter what you think does it? The jury heard days of evidence and decided what was right.

Her defence have an obligation to do the best they can and so may have provided the interpreter in order to give her every chance.

As I posted on another forum, that would be part of the defence.
And the interpreter being needed was a total crock - she spoke good enough english when she was ranting away in the court house on wednesday (I was there) I seriously doubt that she is the innocent bullying victim who fought back :suspect:

She has only been in this country since she was 10, and although it was reported that she had a good grasp of English, it cannot be assumed that she will understand all the proceedings of a court, so it is common place to provide an interpreter in these situations.

On the IQ point, it is commonly acknowledged among psychologists that IQ tests are ethnocentric and anyone sitting them who is not from a European/North American WASP background is at a disadvantage and are shown to have a lower intelligence than they really have. However, she did not have any formal schooling prior to the age of 10.

As I posted on another forum, that would be part of the defence.
And the interpreter being needed was a total crock - she spoke good enough english when she was ranting away in the court house on wednesday (I was there) I seriously doubt that she is the innocent bullying victim who fought back :suspect:

What I should have said is that its more than likely a case of six of one and half a dozen of the other.

Obviously using a razor blade (from a pencil sharpener or not) is wrong, but if she was prosecuted for the assault, why was the other girl not prosecuted for the previous assault, it was witnessed by plenty of people including adults.

They could have both been given 2 year supervision orders.

They could have both been given 2 year supervision orders.

Or alternatively the school could have dealt with the first assult properly, by immediate suspension and police involvement, and then the second one might never have happened and we would have saved lots of public money.

Little scumbag Shanni got exactly what she deserved.

Beating up an small, poor, disabled war orphan. That's the lowest of the low.

And making a ton of money selling their fictionalised version of the story when the other girl couldn't retaliate because of the court case.
If I saw her in the street I'd spit on her.

I would say that she'd never get a job because everybody will know what a scumbag she is for the rest of her life from the scars on her face but at the end of the day that won't bother her. You can tell she'll be knocked up by fourteen and a half and will spend her life leeching off the state. Bet she's suing for compo too.

Scum of the earth, her and her family.

Or alternatively the school could have dealt with the first assult properly, by immediate suspension and police involvement, and then the second one might never have happened and we would have saved lots of public money.
Ken! Bugger me! I actually agree with you on this! Blimey! :thumbsup:

Little scumbag Shanni got exactly what she deserved.

Beating up an small, poor, disabled war orphan. That's the lowest of the low.

And making a ton of money selling their fictionalised version of the story when the other girl couldn't retaliate because of the court case.
If I saw her in the street I'd spit on her.

I would say that she'd never get a job because everybody will know what a scumbag she is for the rest of her life from the scars on her face but at the end of the day that won't bother her. You can tell she'll be knocked up by fourteen and a half and will spend her life leeching off the state. Bet she's suing for compo too.

Scum of the earth, her and her family.

I can only hope you are being sarcastic in some way and you surely don't mean that.

She may know the family :thumbsup:

I can only hope you are being sarcastic in some way and you surely don't mean that.

I mean every word.

I mean every word.

Why ?

Do you know her or her family ?, I dont understand how you could say something so hateful otherwise.

If you do and you have issues or whatever then I could rationalise it IYSWIM.

Im sorry but what you saying over shanni is shocking i know the family and this txt shunt be on here it aint fair on her family and no matter what she did dint derserve that she should have got her back with hands not a weapon.

Why ?

Do you know her or her family ?, I dont understand how you could say something so hateful otherwise.

If you do and you have issues or whatever then I could rationalise it IYSWIM.


No I don't know them but I think what she did was low. Beating up and orphan with learning disabilities. I think what the other girl did was wrong too but it's the fact that they made money out of it and lied to the press.

They seem to think she'd done nothing wrong.

The other girl was under pressure and comes from a very violent society, but what Shanni did was just pure evil, nothing pushed her to it, she did it for fun.

I had experiences of bullying at school when I was a similar age to this girl, though not as bad as she has. It made going to school very difficult and although I like to look back at my childhood for the many happy times I had, I still remember the nastiness of the girls involved just because I was quiet and too frightened to fight back and skinny. Although what the victim did was a bit extreme, I can understand her entirely. I remember one time fighting back when I had, had enough when we were on a bus going to a swimming lesson. One of the girls was goaded into picking a fight with me and she wasn't expecting the reaction from me she got. That was the last time it happened.

I hate school bullies.

Im sorry but what you saying over shanni is shocking i know the family and this txt shunt be on here it aint fair on her family and no matter what she did dint derserve that she should have got her back with hands not a weapon.

Why am I not suprised you know them?

She shouldn't have got back with her hands either, violence is always unacceptable and your comment just shows exactly what I mean - the kind of people who think it's fine as long as they don't use a weapon, as if punching someone with your fists is somehow honourable.

Im sorry but what you saying over shanni is shocking i know the family and this txt shunt be on here it aint fair on her family and no matter what she did dint derserve that she should have got her back with hands not a weapon.

Ah, I love eloquence. And it's not a 'txt' or even a text, it's *writing*......
I, like many others, hadn't realised the real story behind this and felt sorry for the 'poor girl' with her slashed face. Having now heard the facts and seen the way her family has behaved, selling their lies to newspapers, I have no sympathy for her whatsoever. Maybe she'll think twice before she makes some other person's life a misery.....

Why am I not suprised you know them?

:-) You said what I was thinking....

she should have got her back with hands not a weapon.

I think we can discount your opinion completely if you use a phrase such as "she should have got her back with her hands and not a weapon". It is no wonder there is bullying and violence if people think like you do.

Isn't it always the victim of bullying who 'gets done' when they fight back - while the bully goes around scott free?

This was my experience in my schooling life and on into working career too.

Whats that mean

"Speaking outside court, the Naylor family's solicitor, Garry Dickinson, said his clients had begun civil proceedings against the school, alleging a breach of its duty of care towards Shanni."

"Speaking outside court, the Naylor family's solicitor, Garry Dickinson, said his clients had begun civil proceedings against the school, alleging a breach of its duty of care towards Shanni."

Oh surprise, surprise. Someone should be suing them for giving birth to Shanni in the first place.

If you look at Shanni in this Sky report (http://www.sky.com/skynews/video/videoplayer/0,,30100-shannilive_300606_1330,00.html), she does not look as bad as the pictures in today's papers and on the BBC report.

I am not casting aspersions, Shanni still has visible scarring, but I do wonder if the difference is due to healing or make-up.

[MOD NOTE]Please try and avoid personal comments and keep one on one exchanges to PM - thankyou.

"Speaking outside court, the Naylor family's solicitor, Garry Dickinson, said his clients had begun civil proceedings against the school, alleging a breach of its duty of care towards Shanni."
Insanity.
Thats breathtaking.

i think, after prolonged bullying and physical abuse, there will come a time where anyone will 'snap'. this somalian girl had the ***** beaten out of her, and was tormented for ages before she finally went mental.

GREAT STUFF! the little *****bag got what was coming to her, it seems, serves her right. I hope she thinks twice now before picking on someone
else.

i would have done the same. if i was a teenage girl again

Or alternatively the school could have dealt with the first assult properly, by immediate suspension and police involvement, and then the second one might never have happened and we would have saved lots of public money.


Agreed, but since that didn't happen, why has Shanni not also been prosecuted for assault?
The other girl could still report it and ask them to press charges, as I said, there are plenty of witnesses and there is no time limit on reporting a crime.

There is nothing "GREAT" here.
The 12 year old is the product of her parenting.

This event is the result of many things going wrong.

Parenting, Teaching, Education Policy, Criminal Justice and the individuals concerned .. accused, Shanni, teachers, family.

We had one of the best (if not "the best) educational systems in the world. It produced wonderful people out of some of the worst social backgrounds that you could imagine.

Time were hard but teachers were equally 'hard' and they took a pleasure in the fruits of their labours.

Today the whole education system has been messed around with for political and financial gain and nobody seems willing to bite the bullet.

It is a mess and people have made mistakes. Let's stop covering up for them and get things back to where schools were for educating the majority.

your forgetting to add that the defendant was bullied and beat up by the girl who got slashed - maybe the bully had gone too far this time, and this girl decided not to take any more **** from this bully.

While I accept she was by no way innocent, are you really saying its OK to scar someones face for life, if its only revenge?

Wake up...

[MOD NOTE]Please try and avoid personal comments and keep one on one exchanges to PM - thankyou.
would you please close thread as it aint fair for shannis mum and dad reading all the horrible things what as been said whether derserved it or not thanx:mad: :mad:

I reckon anybody that attempts to cut out somebody's eye with a razor blade should be classed as a psycho.


if pre-meditated perhaps..


but in this case i think the sentence is appropriate.

would you please close thread as it aint fair for shannis mum and dad reading all the horrible things what as been said whether derserved it or not thanx:mad: :mad:

The case is in the public domain now. People have a right to their opinion. Shani's parents were very happy to milk the public sympathy vote across the whole of the media when the full facts were sub judice. Now the boot's on the other foot, why should they be protected from critisism?

if pre-meditated perhaps..


but in this case i think the sentence is appropriate.


Sorry but I thought this was pre-meditated in that the attacker took apart a pencil sharpener in order to remove the blade. That isn't something you do on the spur on the moment.

I'm willing to be corrected otherwise

As I understand it this was the culmination of a prolonged bullying campaign against this girl who finally snapped and injured the girl who had severely beaten her the previous day.

The sentence seems totally sensible.

To describe a 13 year old victim of bullying as a psychopath makes no sense to me

severely beaten ?

It says in the Star she punched her the day before.

would you please close thread as it aint fair for shannis mum and dad reading all the horrible things what as been said whether derserved it or not thanx:mad: :mad:


They can’t go on national TV and not expect people to have an opinion on what she has done

Although cutting someone is a terrible thing to do its nice to see the tables turned on bullies for a change

"Speaking outside court, the Naylor family's solicitor, Garry Dickinson, said his clients had begun civil proceedings against the school, alleging a breach of its duty of care towards Shanni."

What about the breach of the duty of care towards the innocent victim? The teacher who "watched from the window"? - Disgraceful - why wasn't he out there stopping the bullying.

Nayor was/is a bully. Hopefully she will never bully again. I don't condone the action of the somalian, but we have to understand she had been through a torrent of horrendous bullying and racism. Apparently she is now in a special school improving her language and education. I hope she goes onto make a success of herself in this country which has treated her so badly up to now - i.e the neglect of the school/teacher that allowed her to be bullied, didn't help educationally and didn't take her out of danger after the widely witnessed attack.

would you please close thread as it aint fair for shannis mum and dad reading all the horrible things what as been said whether derserved it or not thanx:mad: :mad:


I blame Shanni's Mum and Dad/Guardians for bringing up such a vicious and cowardly bully. Let them read this. Tell them of the little support there is for the bullies of this world. Maybe they'll concentrate on trying to improve the discipline/bringing up of their daughter rather than concentrating on trying to get compensation out of what is already a struggling education system. Have they ever spoke to their daughter about her incessant bullying and of her attack the previous day? Doubt it. Finally, why is their daughter if now 13 years old, so racist?

I blame Shanni's Mum and Dad/Guardians for bringing up such a vicious and cowardly bully. Let them read this.


Exactly. Shanni's was the most cowardly attack possible. If she had beaten a child with parents the way she beat this girl they would have had her expelled in a heartbeat. She would never have done it to a girl who could stand up for her. She picked the most vunerable person she could, because the Somalian girl had no one to stand up for her Shanni was back at school the next day.

I just can't understand how her family can have no shame about her behaviour, it's disgusting.

Sorry but I thought this was pre-meditated in that the attacker took apart a pencil sharpener in order to remove the blade. That isn't something you do on the spur on the moment.

I'm willing to be corrected otherwise

This is not actually true. The blade was a razor blade, not from a pencil sharpener. Apparently the girl found it and took it to school to use as a pencil sharpener - I believe this is where the confusion is.

Her family will have no shame because they are too bigoted themselves to know that what she did was totally wrong. Children learn by example. What does that tell us about her parents ?

There is nothing "GREAT" here.
The 12 year old is the product of her parenting.

This event is the result of many things going wrong.

Parenting, Teaching, Education Policy, Criminal Justice and the individuals concerned .. accused, Shanni, teachers, family.

We had one of the best (if not "the best) educational systems in the world. It produced wonderful people out of some of the worst social backgrounds that you could imagine.

Time were hard but teachers were equally 'hard' and they took a pleasure in the fruits of their labours.

Today the whole education system has been messed around with for political and financial gain and nobody seems willing to bite the bullet.

It is a mess and people have made mistakes. Let's stop covering up for them and get things back to where schools were for educating the majority.


I have just worked through the entire thread and this is the most pertinent thing I have read.

Irrespective of the rights and wrong of bullying and retaliatiation in this case it is about time we all took a greater interest and responsibility in the society that we are creating.

We are creating the next generation through our examples set today....if we continue with this sprial of violence where does it all end??? :confused:

A cornered rat will lash out in panic to escape...it's in its nature. We are not animals lets stop acting like them.

severely beaten ?

It says in the Star she punched her the day before.
Has anyone thought that it could be the other way round ?

Its possible that Shanni gave the somalian girl a beating after being bullied by her, and the razor blade incident the next day was her revenge.


The papers themselves state that this would be normal practice in somalia - and as for "finding" the razor blade :suspect:

Im not saying thats what happened, but it IS a possibility.

Shanni Naylor was perhaps not altogether angelic (though I've read that in the incident on the preceding day she came to the aid of a boy who was being bullied by the Somalian). It is an indictment of our education system that the incident of the previous day was not effectively dealt with. Nevertheless, Shanni Naylor should not have been put in the position where she had to share a class with somebody from a face-slashing culture. Middle class parents would not put up with this; nor should others. :mad:

Shanni Naylor was perhaps not altogether angelic (though I've read that in the incident on the preceding day she came to the aid of a boy who was being bullied by the Somalian). It is an indictment of our education system that the incident of the previous day was not effectively dealt with. Nevertheless, Shanni Naylor should not have been put in the position where she had to share a class with somebody from a face-slashing culture. Middle class parents would not put up with this; nor should others. :mad:

That was what I based my last post on.
So much for the "innocent bullying victim who fought back"

Im sorry but what you saying over shanni is shocking i know the family and this txt shunt be on here it aint fair on her family and no matter what she did dint derserve that she should have got her back with hands not a weapon.
just been reading all of thread,could i ask how you no the naylors please ? because i think your talking crap as anyone who does no them will also no that shanni does not see her mum and hasnt for years.and i can assure you they are a evil vindictive family i do believe shanni is to be starting newfield in sept phraps she fit in with your child as it seems on all threads you are defending this type of child or parent WHY ?if the somali hadnt attacked her back someone else would have she wasnt the first child she had beaten up

Shanni Naylor was perhaps not altogether angelic (though I've read that in the incident on the preceding day she came to the aid of a boy who was being bullied by the Somalian).

Where does this come from? You can't put something in that alters the entire story without backing it up.

just been reading all of thread,could i ask how you no the naylors please ? because i think your talking crap as anyone who does no them will also no that shanni does not see her mum and hasnt for years.and i can assure you they are a evil vindictive family i do believe shanni is to be starting newfield in sept phraps she fit in with your child as it seems on all threads you are defending this type of child or parent WHY ?if the somali hadnt attacked her back someone else would have she wasnt the first child she had beaten up

Wow, what a 1st post....talk about hit the ground running - welcome to the forum.

Where does this come from? You can't put something in that alters the entire story without backing it up.

Cant find it now, but I read the same thing.

EDIT.
Not the story I saw but basically says the same thing :
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=366121&in_page_id=1770&in_a_source=&ct=5

One thing that is apparent about that story is that it's more than 9 months old...

Which would mean that it was written whilst the somali girl was unable to talk to the press and shani had free rain.

I think that anything not current (ie not upto date with events from the court case) must be treated as unreliable.

As I understand it this was the culmination of a prolonged bullying campaign against this girl who finally snapped and injured the girl who had severely beaten her the previous day.

The sentence seems totally sensible.

To describe a 13 year old victim of bullying as a psychopath makes no sense to me
i totslly agree, luckily for shana she her wounds have healed and this case has ceased it may be wrong but these young adults hav opportunity to make good of their lifes so be it, although piggy e5£%£% can take the michael.

One thing that is apparent about that story is that it's more than 9 months old...

Which would mean that it was written whilst the somali girl was unable to talk to the press and shani had free rain.

I think that anything not current (ie not upto date with events from the court case) must be treated as unreliable.

well said. We can all believe what we want, but the most recent information indicates that this girl was severely bullying the somalian, who exacted revenge with a blade.

thats what i find most plausible.

The bullying that the somali girl suffered was 'long term' not just the day before - so whatever Shanni was doing (defending someone else or whatever) it wasn't the first time and the beating certainly was excessive, according to evidence given in court. This led to escalation with the blade being used which I guess is also excessive.

One has to ask - if this had been going on for some time (a year?) - What was the school doing???? After all these girls were only 12 and one obviously had limited understanding in some ways. Why wasn't there some intervention at an earlier stage?

Where does this come from? You can't put something in that alters the entire story without backing it up.
In the Friday (30 June) edition of the Sheffield Star (p2) Shanni's grandmother Kathleen is reported as saying: "Shanni isn't a bully - there was an incident the day before she was slashed, but that was over Shanni standing up for a younger boy who was being bullied by this girl".
I don't know to what extent this was discussed in the court case.

I hope the powers that be have reviewed bullying policies after this incident. I think there are faults in any system that allows this to happen.

Sheffield's LEA are complete crap (especially when dealing with bullying). We've been battling for nealry a year now to get justice for my partner's son who has been bullied for nearly a year by another pupil's parent - the school hasn't informed the LEA of a second incident involving this person. To the point where we are seeking a Judicial Review into the School & LEA's bullying policies (incompetance & lies).


would you please close thread as it aint fair for shannis mum and dad reading all the horrible things what as been said whether derserved it or not thanx:mad: :mad:

Maybe they should've kept thier gobs shut, and not lied to the press?

I agree Another Psychopath goes free .. i.e. Shanni Naylor

To qoute the Guardian newspaper (education.guardian.co.uk)

"The three-day trial was told that, the day before the attack, the girl was subjected to a "vicious" assault by Shanni, who punched her repeatedly, banging her head against a wall, as more than 100 pupils looked on without helping."
i think shanni was coping well on her own

Just read on the BBC website that the girl who slashed (not once, but twice) 13-year old Shanni’s face with a razor blade has been given a 2 year supervision order. The girl from Myrtle Springs school in Gleadless.

Isn’t it about time judge’s got a bit more strict with punishments?

This extract made my blood boil “The jury was told the defendant had an extremely low IQ and came from Somalia, where it is a cultural practice for women to settle disputes by scratching each other's faces, usually resulting in superficial injuries.”

Is it just me or is there a slight difference between finger nails and razor blades? Isn’t there also cultutal differences between Somalia and England? They failed to explain how long she had lived here, but I bet it was more than a few days. This was a pre-meditated attack and has left a little more than “superficial” injuries. They also said that she had a “low IQ” which obviously means it’s ok to go about cutting up peoples faces. If her IQ is that low and she is a threat to other children, shouldn’t she be in constantly supervised mental care? Why is she allowed to roam around other pupils with sharp instruments in her pockets?

Well done justice system, you’ve got a cracker there.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/5131966.stm?ls

The kid was only 13, the Courts aren't allowed to give anything worse than supervision orders or community service to minors, or at worst, a decent sized fine (which their Parents end up paying).

More's the pity... :rant: :loopy:

In the Friday (30 June) edition of the Sheffield Star (p2) Shanni's grandmother Kathleen is reported as saying: "Shanni isn't a bully - there was an incident the day before she was slashed, but that was over Shanni standing up for a younger boy who was being bullied by this girl".
I don't know to what extent this was discussed in the court case.
I have a feeling the Somalian girl might have been standing up to the boy who was also bullying her.

Shanni punched her on his behalf.

Think about that.

The kid was only 13, the Courts aren't allowed to give anything worse than supervision orders or community service to minors, or at worst, a decent sized fine (which their Parents end up paying).

More's the pity... :rant: :loopy:

Rubbish. Jamie Bulgers killers were given custodial sentences.

In the Friday (30 June) edition of the Sheffield Star (p2) Shanni's grandmother Kathleen is reported as saying:
I have met this Kath Naylor a few times... :roll:

Suffice it to say I wouldn't believe her if she said day follows night :hihi: :hihi:

Good to see minnime has crawled back into her hole. I am disappointed with the Sheffield Star's full page spread about this awful girl, trying to make out that she was the innocent victim in this incident. But it's the Star so I am not really surprised.

I have been thinking about this case and I think it just goes to show how the media can influence a case to disadvantage the defendant who is innocent until proven guilty.

This story made national news, and even now when new events come to light both sides of the story are not being given fair review.

I have been very disappointed in the BBC news coverage for example.

I do have a question though. Was the Somalian girl not allowed to speak prior to the trial ?

Rubbish. Jamie Bulgers killers were given custodial sentences.

The Bulger killing was quite a long time ago, and under a Conservative government. Things have changed.

I've got to page 5 on this thread now and i'm a bit fed up now of everyone having a pop at this Shanni girl, yes what she did was wrong in punching this girl the day before but remember she too was 12 years old at the time, how many of us can honestly say we never got into a fight when we were in secondary school?
Yes bullying is wrong but revenge to this extreme is disgusting, low IQ, orphan or not, Shanni is still only a child at 13 years old, i for one feel sorry for the way the forum has just leeched onto her calling her an evil little so and so etc.
What i am trying to say is at the end of the day this 'slasher' was the one in the wrong for using a weapon, who cares where she is from, at the end of the day if someone slashed me because i'd smacked them when i was 12, my parents/family would've reacted the same as Shanni's. An assault which Shanni apparently conducted would still hold a lesser sentence than the weapon offence if they were both to be taken to court.
Now please just leave her and this story alone now, it is not fair on Shanni or her family, who's to say that they aren't forum members?!

Suffice it to say I wouldn't believe her if she said day follows night :hihi: :hihi:

Aaah. but what if she said "night follows day"...?


at the end of the day if someone slashed me because i'd smacked them when i was 12, my parents/family would've reacted the same as Shanni's.

It wasn't an isolated incident that this vile creature perpretrated though, was it? No. It was over a prolonged period of time. Are you saying your parents would lie to the press during the build up to the trial?



Now please just leave her and this story alone now

Why? We have our opinions, we should be able to voice/share them on here.


it is not fair on Shanni or her family, who's to say that they aren't forum members?!

Maybe if they were better parents, this wouldn't have happened in the first place?

Tinkabel, I don't mean to get pedantic, but as far as I'm concerned, if someone smashes my head into a wall repeatedly, they are using that wall as a weapon. Just a thought.

Tinkabel, I don't mean to get pedantic, but as far as I'm concerned, if someone smashes my head into a wall repeatedly, they are using that wall as a weapon. Just a thought.

Nobody mentioned Shanni was 'smashing' she was punching so therefore that statement is irrelevant due to the fact that no-one except Shanni knows whether she intentionally punched the girl near the wall so that she could 'smash' her head against it. So in my eyes the 'slasher' is still the most violent out of the two due to most definately using a weapon.

Just read on the BBC website that the girl who slashed (not once, but twice) 13-year old Shanni’s face with a razor blade has been given a 2 year supervision order. The girl from Myrtle Springs school in Gleadless.

Isn’t it about time judge’s got a bit more strict with punishments?

This extract made my blood boil “The jury was told the defendant had an extremely low IQ and came from Somalia, where it is a cultural practice for women to settle disputes by scratching each other's faces, usually resulting in superficial injuries.”

Is it just me or is there a slight difference between finger nails and razor blades? Isn’t there also cultutal differences between Somalia and England? They failed to explain how long she had lived here, but I bet it was more than a few days. This was a pre-meditated attack and has left a little more than “superficial” injuries. They also said that she had a “low IQ” which obviously means it’s ok to go about cutting up peoples faces. If her IQ is that low and she is a threat to other children, shouldn’t she be in constantly supervised mental care? Why is she allowed to roam around other pupils with sharp instruments in her pockets?

Well done justice system, you’ve got a cracker there.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/5131966.stm?ls
yet another bully getting their come uppence

It wasn't an isolated incident that this vile creature perpretrated though, was it? No. It was over a prolonged period of time. Are you saying your parents would lie to the press during the build up to the trial?





Why? We have our opinions, we should be able to voice/share them on here.




Maybe if they were better parents, this wouldn't have happened in the first place?

Can you please show me where it says it was Shanni that did ALL of the bullying on this girl over a prolonged period of time, correct me if i am wrong but we're all assuming it was just Shanni bullying!

To express such nasty opinions about a 13 year old girl who herself has had problems in her life is just sick, i am sorry but that is the way i feel.

To question the parenting i cannot say a lot about due to not knowing her parents, all we know is she no longer speaks to her mother. All parents want what is best for their kids, so if Shanni told her father it happened this way, of course he is going to take her side and make her out to be innocent in it all, thats what any parent, decent or not does.

statements were given by the teachers as to the prolonged attacks on the girl by shanni.makes you wonder why they didnt stop her - could it be that she is a persistent bully & her parents haven't stopped her on previous occasions,makes you wonder.
she got what she deserved.

A good parent would seek to find out the truth and should be well aware that children often tell only part of the story to make themselves out in a good light.

I don't really see what your point is about whether other pupils also bullied the girl tinkabel? Does that somehow make it more acceptable to you?

What the somali girl did is unacceptable and she is being punished for it. But what shanni did is also unacceptable and she should be punished as well, and at the same time there should be some serious questioned asked about the school and why they allowed ongoing bullying of which they were clearly aware.

Rubbish. Jamie Bulgers killers were given custodial sentences.

That was a VERY high profile case though, imagine the stick the system would've got if they had been lenient with the kids due to their age...

In my opinion though, if you do the crime, you should do the time, even if you're only 13/14, and especially if the crime is murder, as it was in teh Bulger case.

Shanni Naylor should not have been put in the position where she had to share a class with somebody from a face-slashing culture.



"Face slashing culture".

Just come out with it. Let's have the whole rivers running red with blood ****. Give it the whole Enoch thing.

I don't know what happened...not in detail and case background. Neither - though some would like to think otherwise - do most people here. possibly neither do the courts (now there would be a surprise)

"Face slashing culture".

Extract from article in Sheffield news section of Sheffield Star website:
The court was told in Somalia women typically sorted out disputes by deliberately injuring each other's faces - commonly using their nails, sticks or stones.
:thumbsup:

Extract from article in Sheffield news section of Sheffield Star website:

Johnny Foreigner is not to be trusted. Especially those with dark skin who wear bones through their noses and eat white people

:thumbsup:




Shocking that a girl, be she a little angel or a little chav, should have to share a class with such primitives

all bullys need to learn a lesson,if u go about your own business with out bothering other people then the world would be so much better,

Isn't it always the victim of bullying who 'gets done' when they fight back - while the bully goes around scott free?

This was my experience in my schooling life and on into working career too.

That was my experience at the same school, although it was a long time ago. Being poor was my crime, and I got near constant abuse for it from certain parties, including being threatened and sometimes hit. It happened in front of staff at times, who did nothing. I was even dragged down the stairs in the tower block by my feet while someone else stood on my fingers when I tried to grab the railing to stop myself being dragged. I got egged and floured in front of half the school.
A few times I lashed out at bullies when they just had to push too far. This resulted in ME being hauled up in front of the headmaster or his lackey, and ME being threatened with expulsion. I felt like I was the easy target not only for bullies, but also for the staff.
In summary, the way the school appear to have handled the run up to the slashing incident doesn't surprise me in the least.

Shocking that a girl, be she a little angel or a little chav, should have to share a class with such primitives

Yes, shanni sounds like she should have been taught on her own for the safety of the other children.

The sentence seems fair to me having followed the case. The girl was reacting it seems to bullying and having been severely beaten the day before. She has no parents, and a low standard of education; she was also carrying a razor blade she had found and was using as a pencil sharpener (presume she was so poor she could not afford a pencil sharpener). She was the only Somali girl in her year and was reported as having no friends. What she did was en extreme reaction to a long period of abuse. She did wrong by slashing another girl, but it was not done out of 'evil' intent.

Anyway, who is to blame here really is neither girl, it is the school itself. A teacher witnessed Naylor hitting the other 'like a boxer' and punching her so hard that her head was hitting a wall. Around 100 pupils stood by and spectated. Why Naylor was not immediately excluded after this I do not know, but this is what ought to have happened.

It is possibly due to a 'story' having been told to teachers and the father about her protecting a boy in the school. About this we will never know the truth as kids en masse will back the stronger party (Naylor) and go along with whatever tale is told, be it truth or not. Teachers should however be aware of this and take a zero tolerance approach to incidents. They should also realise that the bullied party will often turn violent (and even bully others) themselves and it quickly becomes impossible to find out the truth.

The only solution (or as it turned out, prevention of an escalation) would have been to exclude the girl that very same day as she beat up the other girl. The fact that a school can be so wishy-washy in terms of care of its pupils worries me, as shown by this incident things escalate rapidly, and it should have been nipped in the bud.

Wishy-washy - I love it. IMO it sums up this school's senior management so well! They are the only one's who can exclude pupils yet are the one's with the least awareness of what the pupils are actually like as they very rarely teach any of them. So they don't take this kind of thing seriously enough.

As a previous poster has stated, there have been similar incidents in this school over the years which have not had the same media attention nor the same dreadful outcome - but the 'victims' have received the punishment rather than the initial bullies.

Everyone knows that a cornered person will fight and pent up rage will lead to extreme reactions but all the school does is deal with single events rather than looking at the background to these things. So people can keep bullying 'cause each seperate incident always has a 'reason' and each time they are dealt with by a different member of the management team who often does not bother to look into the background and therefore only reacts to the symptom rather than the cause of the incident.

The judge in this case criticised the school for the way they managed bullying - and rightly so IMO - it would be good if they had to publicly say what they were doing to manage these things better, if only for the peace of mind of the parents of children at this school. But I guess flying pigs are more likely.

Myrtle Springs becomes Springs Academy in September - but don't be fooled - it will still have more or less the same staff and the same pupils. Perhaps the new head will shake it up?

Perhaps the new head will shake it up?

He/She will probably make it worse (this has proven to be the case in my experience):(.

I notice that they only seemed to release the fact she was somarlian after the trial :suspect: because I heard it several times on the radio before, but they never released her ethinicity :huh:

Anyone who is going to slash someone accross the face deserves a mental assessment whatever the outcome of the trial. I don't care if its traditional to slash people in somarlia, were aren't in somarlia, were in england and she follows our laws here.

Anyone who is going to slash someone accross the face deserves a mental assessment whatever the outcome of the trial. I don't care if its traditional to slash people in somarlia, were aren't in somarlia, were in england and she follows our laws here.

Here Here!

Here Here!

She is also a scared, alone, 13 year old girl. Living in a strange country and with no parents.

Following British law I suspect is hardly top of her concerns.

and the mental assessment would likely conclude that she was scared and driven to desperation by the ongoing systemac bullying and that this caused her violent behaviour.

Shanni should be assessed as well, what do you think that assessment would say?

She is also a scared, alone, 13 year old girl. Living in a strange country and with no parents.

Following British law I suspect is hardly top of her concerns.

Then it should be made to be, i'm sorry but she chose to live here so therefore she should follow our law, end of! i wouldn't go there and expect to act like some violent person and not except to be punished just because i don't have any parents. She will have some parents, whether they're foster parents or whatever, a 13 year old wouldn't be living on her own and she will have had councelling etc!
To play the '13 year old poor orphan in a foreign country' line is ridiculous!

and the mental assessment would likely conclude that she was scared and driven to desperation by the ongoing systemac bullying and that this caused her violent behaviour.

Shanni should be assessed as well, what do you think that assessment would say?

That would say she's a mixed up girl who for whatever reasons has turned out the way she has, remember this 13 year old girl hasn't been in touch with her mother for a very long time, yes she has a father but girls especially need their mothers, we don't know whats happened in Shanni's childhood so people should stop speculating.
Why should bullying to this extreme (slashers case) be allowed? For some reason people on here are forgiving her actions just because she has been bullied before, an eye for an eye an all that BUT what lesson will she have learnt from this, that it is acceptable to slash someone just because they hit you?!
If i smacked and bullied you, would you slash me?!

I believe, that both children and they are both still children deserved better.

They have both been failed by a system that allowed bullying to take place to the extent that it did.

Neither girl deserved to be bullied or slashed, both of them needed some intervention at some point prior to these events occurring and the staff who allowed this to happen need to be called to account.

Sheffield LEA, needs to review its policies as I have said before I hope that something good can come from all this to prevent the continued suffering of other children being bullied in Sheffield schools.

I don't think I'd get any of my news from the Star... pffft... I bet you'd get more information out of Childrens Newsround that you would from the star.

........ and the staff who allowed this to happen need to be called to account.

Sheffield LEA, needs to review its policies .........

I think that I may have mentioned policy review before as well.
I don't know enough detail about them, and now wonder whether it is not just (or even) policy that is wrong or simply good management that is lacking through the system.
You can have the best policies in the world, but if no-one is ensuring that they are implemented .....

That would say she's a mixed up girl who for whatever reasons has turned out the way she has, remember this 13 year old girl hasn't been in touch with her mother for a very long time, yes she has a father but girls especially need their mothers, we don't know whats happened in Shanni's childhood so people should stop speculating.
Why should bullying to this extreme (slashers case) be allowed? For some reason people on here are forgiving her actions just because she has been bullied before, an eye for an eye an all that BUT what lesson will she have learnt from this, that it is acceptable to slash someone just because they hit you?!
If i smacked and bullied you, would you slash me?!

being an adult if you beat me up one day, with many witnesses, i'd have you arrested.

If as in the girls case the authorities despite having actually witnessed it, refused to do anything, I can only say that i'd probably break the law myself in response... But being an adult, i'd make sure that there were no witnesses.

I don't disagree that the girl should expect to follow the law of the land, and equally so should shanni, no matter what her problems are, they are definitely less serious than the somali girls problems.
The somali girl has been tried, convicted and punished, when will shanni be in court?

seems that if you play the race card everything is sweet,if you settle your differences by a razor in your country of origin,then go back home & do it.

I think that you will find that settling women's differences by scratching faces is the same in Somalia as it is here.

Rivers of blood,how many more times do i have to post this quote ?
Asian shot in firvale,Somali uses razor in school,Hospital waiting list increase,queues for council houses longer than Norfolk ST. Last one out of the country please turn out the lights.

and of course 'goes free' is a completely inaccurate statement

you only 'go free' from court witha absolute discharge from the magistrates court or a 'noyt suilty' verdict from a jury trial ...

also putting people in institutions creates institutionalised people ...

i

seems that if you play the race card everything is sweet,if you settle your differences by a razor in your country of origin,then go back home & do it.


Of couse your statement could be read two ways...

"The girl was somalian....wach her be defended by all and sundry because she is a different race"

or

"It was a somalian that attacked a poor white girl. Send the buggers back"

The race card has two sides....which negates your point somewhat

These kids have been let down by the system. Bullying of whatever sort has got to be stamped on hard as soon as it happens. These days the only way to do that is to exclude the bully from school.

I see from The Star that Shanni's family intend to sue the Education Authority.
Of course, IF the teacher who saw the previous day's attack in the playground had reported it and the school HAD suspended Shanni right away, the slashing would not have happened.
But Shanni's family would then have sued for harm caused by her exclusion from school.
So what is the LEA to do?

well i saw the attacker at the bus stop that day i know it was her cuz id seen her on tv wi face coverd but same clothes on an as i cud see she was being quiet rude 2 her guardian tellin her 2 hurry the **** up

well i saw the attacker at the bus stop that day i know it was her cuz id seen her on tv wi face coverd but same clothes on an as i cud see she was being quiet rude 2 her guardian tellin her 2 hurry the **** up
So much for her not knowing much english then (as I said earlier)

Originally Posted by laughalot01
well i saw the attacker at the bus stop that day i know it was her cuz id seen her on tv wi face coverd but same clothes on an as i cud see she was being quiet rude 2 her guardian tellin her 2 hurry the **** up


So much for her not knowing much english then (as I said earlier)

oh, the irony!

thats wots so annoyin

She is also a scared, alone, 13 year old girl. Living in a strange country and with no parents.

Following British law I suspect is hardly top of her concerns.
:huh: She will have a gardian, she won't live here without any kind of care or support, she's not a poor orphan who lives the streets.

She knows the difference between right and wrong here and she chose to ignore it, simple as, the outcome of this trial is a farse, it just shows yet again that the government and the whole system for what it is, scared.

She should have been told, look this isnt your old country, here things are different, you can't do this, you'll be punished :) did that happen? no :rolleyes:

well i saw the attacker at the bus stop that day i know it was her cuz id seen her on tv wi face coverd but same clothes on an as i cud see she was being quiet rude 2 her guardian tellin her 2 hurry the **** up
So much for the angelic victim :)

Nobody mentioned Shanni was 'smashing' she was punching so therefore that statement is irrelevant due to the fact that no-one except Shanni knows whether she intentionally punched the girl near the wall so that she could 'smash' her head against it. So in my eyes the 'slasher' is still the most violent out of the two due to most definately using a weapon.

Even though smashing someone's head against a wall (intentionally or not) could kill them? How's that less violent that slashing someone with a razor blade?

Why should bullying to this extreme (slashers case) be allowed? For some reason people on here are forgiving her actions just because she has been bullied before, an eye for an eye an all that BUT what lesson will she have learnt from this, that it is acceptable to slash someone just because they hit you?!
If i smacked and bullied you, would you slash me?!

The point is the attack on Shanni wasn't 'allowed' (as you put it). It was reported to police and the attacker now has a criminal record. However the bullying the attacker faced was not reported to the police, and by all accounts seems to have been completely ignored by the school. It's clear to me which of the two bullying incidents was condoned here, and it wasn't the 'slasher' incident! If the school had dealt with it then this whole situation would have bee averted.

She should have been told, look this isnt your old country, here things are different, you can't do this, you'll be punished :) did that happen? no :rolleyes:


Can you just spell out for us again Jimbob what exactly the outcome of the trial was? As you seem to believe that she has been released with no punishment... Which is simply incorrect.

Can you just spell out for us again Jimbob what exactly the outcome of the trial was? As you seem to believe that she has been released with no punishment... Which is simply incorrect.
They didn't punish her to the extent they should have. She recieved no custodial sentence and if that is not wounding with intent to cause grievous bodily harm, I'm damed if I know what is.

Slashing someone accross the face with a razor is simply evil and unacceptable under any circumstances, no matter what your beliefs and background.

I've been bullied, I didn't slash the guy accross the face with a razor did I?

Think it was a 2 year supervision order.
She will have to report to a probation officer (may possibly be a social worker due to her age)

For the first 16 weeks she has to report in once a week.
After that every 2 weeks for a couple of months.

After that period, the supervising officer can go back to court to have the order removed.

So in as little as 6 months, this order could be revoked.

Call that a punishment ?

They didn't punish her to the extent they should have. She recieved no custodial sentence and if that is not wounding with intent to cause grievous bodily harm, I'm damed if I know what is.

Slashing someone accross the face with a razor is simply evil and unacceptable under any circumstances, no matter what your beliefs and background.

I understand that the only thing preventing the judge giving the girl a customdial sentence was her age. Her culture was not taken into account during sentencing. You seem to forget that she still has a criminal record. Having a conviction for unlawful wounding is not exactly desirable.

Just read on the BBC website that the girl who slashed (not once, but twice) 13-year old Shanni’s face with a razor blade has been given a 2 year supervision order. The girl from Myrtle Springs school in Gleadless.

Isn’t it about time judge’s got a bit more strict with punishments?

This extract made my blood boil “The jury was told the defendant had an extremely low IQ and came from Somalia, where it is a cultural practice for women to settle disputes by scratching each other's faces, usually resulting in superficial injuries.”

Is it just me or is there a slight difference between finger nails and razor blades? Isn’t there also cultutal differences between Somalia and England? They failed to explain how long she had lived here, but I bet it was more than a few days. This was a pre-meditated attack and has left a little more than “superficial” injuries. They also said that she had a “low IQ” which obviously means it’s ok to go about cutting up peoples faces. If her IQ is that low and she is a threat to other children, shouldn’t she be in constantly supervised mental care? Why is she allowed to roam around other pupils with sharp instruments in her pockets?

Well done justice system, you’ve got a cracker there.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/5131966.stm?ls

This case sums up the country we now live in, lets face it the justice system is a joke. The judge congratulated the jury and even admitted that the verdict would come as a suprise, what does that tell you? He's making it sound as though the attack was justified due to the circumstances, what on earth!

This case sums up the country we now live in, lets face it the justice system is a joke. The judge congratulated the jury and even admitted that the verdict would come as a suprise, what does that tell you? He's making it sound as though the attack was justified due to the circumstances, what on earth!

This is a gross misquote. What he actually said was that it might be a surprise to those that hadn't sat and heard all the evidence. Clearly it wasn't a surprise to him or the jury because they had. I think he was viewing it from the same viewpoint as most of us, that the attacker was wrong, but that there was some element of mitigaton which is why she got a lighetr sentence.

I understand that the only thing preventing the judge giving the girl a customdial sentence was her age. Her culture was not taken into account during sentencing. You seem to forget that she still has a criminal record. Having a conviction for unlawful wounding is not exactly desirable.
The article reads

"The Recorder of Sheffield, Judge Alan Goldsack QC, told the court on Friday that he did not have the power to impose a custodial sentence as the girl had been convicted on a lesser charge."

But what I can't understand is how this can be seen as anything but wounding with intent to cause grievous bodily harm. Yes, bullying had gone one before, but the day it happened, the attack was unprovoked which to me, gives me the feeling that this young girl seriously needs a mental analaysis, simply because she must have let her anger build up in a way that is not healthy for anyone and does not give reason for slashing a 13 year old girl accross the face with a razor.

The article reads

"The Recorder of Sheffield, Judge Alan Goldsack QC, told the court on Friday that he did not have the power to impose a custodial sentence as the girl had been convicted on a lesser charge."

But what I can't understand is how this can be seen as anything but wounding with intent to cause grievous bodily harm. Yes, bullying had gone one before, but the day it happened, the attack was unprovoked which to me, gives me the feeling that this young girl seriously needs a mental analaysis, simply because she must have let her anger build up in a way that is not healthy for anyone and does not give reason for slashing a 13 year old girl accross the face with a razor.

I stand corrected, however again her culture was not a factor in determining the sentence.

However the judge was quite clear than anyone who heard all the evidence as presented in court would not be surprised at her not being found guilty of the more serious charge. Maybe you should respect the verdict of the jury who DID hear all the evidence.

Well if her culture wasnt taken into account, surely she should have been convicted of the more serious charge ?

Well if her culture wasnt taken into account, surely she should have been convicted of the more serious charge?
Also, why wasn't her ethinicity publicised till after the trial. Maybe it was simply to keep her privacy, which would come out in the end. Or maybe they didn't want the people to know that it was a foreigner slicing up a white girl. The outcome of this case is a joke and a discrace upon the system. Having been older, this girl would have been deported and she should have been found guilty of wounding with intent to cause grievous bodily harm as it blatantly is. But yet again, this country is too scared of offending what is blatently wrong.

The article reads

"The Recorder of Sheffield, Judge Alan Goldsack QC, told the court on Friday that he did not have the power to impose a custodial sentence as the girl had been convicted on a lesser charge."

But what I can't understand is how this can be seen as anything but wounding with intent to cause grievous bodily harm. Yes, bullying had gone one before, but the day it happened, the attack was unprovoked which to me, gives me the feeling that this young girl seriously needs a mental analaysis, simply because she must have let her anger build up in a way that is not healthy for anyone and does not give reason for slashing a 13 year old girl accross the face with a razor.

You are probably right, she may well need help with her mental health. In this case, she should get that help rather than being put in gaol shouldn't she?

Raise your hand if you think this girl will have learnt from recent events and will be detered from doing the same or similar again with such a leniant punishment.

The article reads

"The Recorder of Sheffield, Judge Alan Goldsack QC, told the court on Friday that he did not have the power to impose a custodial sentence as the girl had been convicted on a lesser charge."

But what I can't understand is how this can be seen as anything but wounding with intent to cause grievous bodily harm. Yes, bullying had gone one before, but the day it happened, the attack was unprovoked which to me, gives me the feeling that this young girl seriously needs a mental analaysis, simply because she must have let her anger build up in a way that is not healthy for anyone and does not give reason for slashing a 13 year old girl accross the face with a razor.

firstly she is in the 10 -14 age group so ther is the issue of proving competencne / understanding of the law

secondly there is the obstacle of proving there was intent to cause GBH rather than just an assault, an act of battery and the intent to cause ABH or GBH ...

without full transcripts of the trial it's hard to say more more than that

I completely disagree. Mitigating factors are always taken into account by a court and systematic bullying is a good mitigation.
Wives who kill abusive husbands are sometimes aquitted on the grounds of provocation, even if they were not being abused at the time they snapped.

Why is this any different.

IMO the ethnicity and background of the girl are clouding your judgement. If both girls were white my opinion would be the same, and if they were both black, both green or both purple, my opinion would still not change.
I suspect that yours would be different in each case.

This attacker was the victim of bullying! did you see the "victim". bet butter wouldn't melt in her mouth would it!!!! I agree she did not deserve to be slashed but then did her attacked deserve to have her head smashed against a wall!!!! I have worked in the legal sector and have been in court rooms with Judge Goldsack QC and he is not a lenient Judge. He is one some criminals detest getting on their trials. this incident was not straightforward by any means. but the victim should take some responsibility of her bullying.

Had the 2 girls both been white, I would still want the mental state of the attacker seriously scruitanised and for her to be punished fairly. However, the fact that some are using her background and ethinicity as an excuse for her to commit such a horrific act of violence does greatly unpelase me.

Well if her culture wasnt taken into account, surely she should have been convicted of the more serious charge ?

Her cultural background was not the only evidence submitted in her defence at trial. You seem to be forgetting the huge mitigating factor of her being bullied. Only the members of the jury can comment on which they felt was more important, but anyone with any sense would place more importance on the physical and emotional violence the attacker had been subjected to.

Had the 2 girls both been white, I would still want the mental state of the attacker seriously scruitanised and for her to be punished fairly. However, the fact that some are using her background and ethinicity as an excuse for her to commit such a horrific act of violence does greatly unpelase me.

I don't necessarily disagree about an assessment. IMO she has been punished fairly, now where is the fair punishment for the systematic bully?
They haven't used any excuse, they are called mitigating factors in court, and the main one must be the bullying, not her background, the background is just that, background.

A horrific act of violence, precipitated by continuing assaults which the school did nothing about.
If someone beat me up day after day and the police would do nothing about it, then i'd snap eventually and the person would (if I planned it right) never be found.

IMO the ethnicity and background of the girl are clouding your judgement. If both girls were white my opinion would be the same, and if they were both black, both green or both purple, my opinion would still not change.
.

I think that her ethnicity is a point in this particular case.It has been pointed out that in somalia women often scratch each others faces to settle disagreements (or whatever the reason is) so this would not be a problem if she was not somali.

Had the 2 girls both been white, I would still want the mental state of the attacker seriously scruitanised and for her to be punished fairly. However, the fact that some are using her background and ethinicity as an excuse for her to commit such a horrific act of violence does greatly unpelase me.

Who exactly is using her culture and ethnic background as an excuse? It seems to me that people are only using her culture and ethnic background to say that this girl deserved greater punishment and deportation, whilst ignoring the main reason for mitigation. If she had been white, and all other factors remained the same, then the same verdict and punishment would have been right.

Who exactly is using her culture and ethnic background as an excuse?
Maybe not an excuse for doing it, but an excuse for the way in which she did it?
The jury was told the defendant had an extremely low IQ and came from Somalia, where it is a cultural practice for women to settle disputes by scratching each other's faces, usually resulting in superficial injuries.

explanation, not excuse.

I think that her ethnicity is a point in this particular case.It has been pointed out that in somalia women often scratch each others faces to settle disagreements (or whatever the reason is) so this would not be a problem if she was not somali.

it's background to the case which explains the particular action that was taken.

It is relevant, but it's not offered as some sort of excuse.

explanation, not excuse.
Either way ir worked didn't it :) for her atleast.

Not her (http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40933000/jpg/_40933238_shanni203300.jpg).

Maybe not an excuse for doing it, but an excuse for the way in which she did it?

And therefore suggesting that someone from a different culture may have got their revenge a different way? But not at all suggesting that her cultural background led to her being more violent than someone with a different background. After all, all societies have ways in which scores are settled using violence, including our own.

I just don't like the way that some people are using her background as the reason for why she was found guilty for the lesser charge, whilst completely ignoring the other facts of the case.

And therefore suggesting that someone from a different culture may have got their revenge a different way? But not at all suggesting that her cultural background led to her being more violent than someone with a different background. After all, all societies have ways in which scores are settled using violence, including our own.

I just don't like the way that some people are using her background as the reason for why she was found guilty for the lesser charge, whilst completely ignoring the other facts of the case.

To be honest i have yet to meet a non violent somalian.Many a time i had to back down from scraps with somalians that were trying to rob folks.Days later i would be hassled in the street by their friends because i dared to stop them taxing little girls that couldnt fight back.They have a very short fuse shorter than any other people i have met.

To be honest i have yet to meet a non violent somalian.Many a time i had to back down from scraps with somalians that were trying to rob folks.Days later i would be hassled in the street by their friends because i dared to stop them taxing little girls that couldnt fight back.They have a very short fuse shorter than any other people i have met.

Well on the basis of this anecdotal evidence then we should string her up!

Not at all,but it goes to prove (somewhat) that some people of that particular background are known to get violent easily and attack others with little provocation (just like most ethnicities to be fair).But the point that she knew no better because thats how she was brought up is not much of an excuse.

The first 6ish pages are full of people saying all sorts about this shanni girl because she had attacked her the day before and "supposedly" bullied her for a while.However no one knows the real story as to exactly what was said or done therefore we can only speculate.It could be that this poor victimised little orphan was actually a nasty little **** and was bullying the boy the day before,someone (shanni) intervened and was there fore next on the list.The fact that she got off doesn't mean she was innocent,just that she was lucky people bought her story.

Not at all,but it goes to prove (somewhat) that some people of that particular background are known to get violent easily and attack others with little provocation (just like most ethnicities to be fair).But the point that she knew no better because thats how she was brought up is not much of an excuse..

No, it does not go to prove that some people of a particular background are known to get violent easily - this is simply your opinion from a handful of personal and subjective incidents.

The first 6ish pages are full of people saying all sorts about this shanni girl because she had attacked her the day before and "supposedly" bullied her for a while.However no one knows the real story as to exactly what was said or done therefore we can only speculate.It could be that this poor victimised little orphan was actually a nasty little **** and was bullying the boy the day before,someone (shanni) intervened and was there fore next on the list.The fact that she got off doesn't mean she was innocent,just that she was lucky people bought her story.

First of all she didn't "get off", she was found guilty of unlawful wounding. Secondly, if your speculation about events were true then the prosecution would have entered this as evidence.

:evil:

Little scumbag Shanni got exactly what she deserved.

Beating up a small, poor, disabled war orphan.

That's the lowest of the low. I would say that she'd never get a job because everybody will know what a scumbag she is for the rest of her life from the scars on her face but at the end of the day that won't bother her. You can tell she'll be knocked up by fourteen and a half and will spend her life leeching off the state. Bet she's suing for compo too.

Scum of the earth, her and her family.

Christ Almighty, you must know this family as well as I do, to come to those conclusions.

They all think that they are hard cases. I have known the father since he was about 12/13 years old and he was always something of an arsehole. :twisted:

As for the paternal grandfather, he was always a useless, no good pisspot who prefered to use his fists before his single brain cell was put into gear. :evil:

Rubbish. Jamie Bulgers killers were given custodial sentences.
if in ten or elevens years they did what they did, what could they do in 50 now they are free, was their sentence harsh enough? we can only wait and see

here's my two cents on the whole thing,

first of all i can assure everyone here that there is no custom of slashing people in somalia in case of disputes.As a somali myself i was laughing my head off when i heard this.


secondly, newton once said' every action as an equal and opposite reaction'.This girl has been bullied like hell.Why was'nt she helped by her teachers or students?I was bullied once in school.It was horrible.It is even worse when no body comes to your aid.I took matters in my own hands and i knocked that ******* out one day when i had enough.I had never been bullied since then.

may be shanni's parents should ask their daughter why did u bully that girl in the first place?

To be honest i have yet to meet a non violent somalian.Many a time i had to back down from scraps with somalians that were trying to rob folks.Days later i would be hassled in the street by their friends because i dared to stop them taxing little girls that couldnt fight back.They have a very short fuse shorter than any other people i have met.

you must be one big retard.yet to meet non violent somalian?take a look around.Do you see us rampaging through sheffield looting and killing the masses?

If you have met short fused somalians then perhaps you should know that these short fused somalian do not have a brain connection to every single somalian in sheffield.

my my going by your logic i have yet to meet a non violent english footie fan.....

Then it should be made to be, i'm sorry but she chose to live here so therefore she should follow our law, end of! i wouldn't go there and expect to act like some violent person and not except to be punished just because i don't have any parents. She will have some parents, whether they're foster parents or whatever, a 13 year old wouldn't be living on her own and she will have had councelling etc!
To play the '13 year old poor orphan in a foreign country' line is ridiculous!


so what would u have done if u were bullied and no body comes to your aid?smile and say 'don't hurt me please'


where was the teachers in all of this?

That girl was not thinking about 'culture'.My God, what does a 13 year old know about culture and things like that?She was thinking of one thing.stopping this act of bullying.And she went about it in her own way.

I personally think if a person is being bullied then they should strike back.Bullies only know the meaning of force.Once they see you as a person who can defend themselves they will leave you alone.

Its amazing how many people here are willing to ignore the fact that somoene was bullied here.Its not as if this girl slashed someone eyes for the fun of it.


Shanni can consider herself lucky.An indian friend told me about this incident of bullying in his college.The bully was killed by his victim after months of such treatment.It was'nt right.But it was'nt suprising.

.

you must be one big retard.yet to meet non violent somalian?take a look around.Do you see us rampaging through sheffield looting and killing the masses?

If you have met short fused somalians then perhaps you should know that these short fused somalian do not have a brain connection to every single somalian in sheffield.

my my going by your logic i have yet to meet a non violent english footie fan.....

So i imagined the gangs of somalians robbing people on devy green a few years back then ? there goes my over active imagination again :hihi:

So i imagined the gangs of somalians robbing people on devy green a few years back then ? there goes my over active imagination again :hihi:


indeed gangs of somalians= all somalians:huh:

this means all pommies are alcoholic, footie obsessed hooligans:D

Here here Elan Tedrona - you go girl/fella.

I am sick of the way we treat people who have fled here from dreadful situations which would turn those who make sweeping generalisations into gibbering wrecks.

Watch the news and learn please before you make these awful statements about assylum seekers. What would YOU do if you were them?

Where did i ever say "every somalian in the world is (insert whatever)".I can only go on what i have personally seen,and that is groups of people robbing kids and then shouting and screaming at anyone who intervenes.I certainly dont think the whole of any nation can be stuck in a particular box.Sorry for any confusion

I notice that they only seemed to release the fact she was somarlian after the trial :suspect: because I heard it several times on the radio before, but they never released her ethinicity :huh:

Anyone who is going to slash someone accross the face deserves a mental assessment whatever the outcome of the trial. I don't care if its traditional to slash people in somarlia, were aren't in somarlia, were in england and she follows our laws here.


is it british law to punch and smash someones' head on the wall?

So i imagined the gangs of somalians robbing people on devy green a few years back then ? there goes my over active imagination again :hihi:

No, you may not have imagined the "gang"(s) but you fail to mention
a) what a small minority they actually were. and
b) That those thefts were carried out by one group of youths, IIRC, and not by the whole Somali poulation in Sheffield

My neighbour is a Somali lady, and we get on great. We don't have a jot of bother from her.

You are making the common error of linking whole peoples by a few isolated acts carried out by a very small minority.

You don't say "all Americans are members of the KKK", due to the fact that a amall and idiotic minority are part of the KKK.

You would not say "all German nationals are Nazis", because a few still support the idea of an Aryan Nation.

It's the Dalmation Argument, "all dalmations are dogs, therefore all dogs are dalmations"

PT

Where did i ever say "every somalian in the world is (insert whatever)".I can only go on what i have personally seen,and that is groups of people robbing kids and then shouting and screaming at anyone who intervenes.I certainly dont think the whole of any nation can be stuck in a particular box.Sorry for any confusion


u said that i have yet to meet a non violent somalian.Now can u explain the ingenuity of such a sentence?


Are u saying every somalian u have met was thrashing people around you?

u said that i have yet to meet a non violent somalian.Now can u explain the ingenuity of such a sentence?


Are u saying every somalian u have met was thrashing people around you?

I said that because that is the case.A few years ago some of the somalian youths that inhabit the estate next to devy green would sit on the green and pick people out to rob.A few (3 to 4) would approach and threaten the victim with a couple of watchers so if anything kicked off they would run back into the estate to get the others.I personally knew about 10 people that were robbed and watched a fair few more.One time they were trying to tax a 12 year old girl i knew so i stood up to them,the undercover coppers that used to be in charge of the problem broke it up before anything could kick off but 5 minutes later about 50 somalians with bats (and the like)were stood in the estate entrance waiting till the coppers left.After that day i was attacked either verbally or physically whenever any of them saw me and that is what i base that statement on.Happy now ?

I said that because that is the case.A few years ago some of the somalian youths that inhabit the estate next to devy green would sit on the green and pick people out to rob.A few (3 to 4) would approach and threaten the victim with a couple of watchers so if anything kicked off they would run back into the estate to get the others.I personally knew about 10 people that were robbed and watched a fair few more.One time they were trying to tax a 12 year old girl i knew so i stood up to them,the undercover coppers that used to be in charge of the problem broke it up before anything could kick off but 5 minutes later about 50 somalians with bats (and the like)were stood in the estate entrance waiting till the coppers left.After that day i was attacked either verbally or physically whenever any of them saw me and that is what i base that statement on.Happy now ?


i sympathise with you in that kind of a situation mate.But when you say u have never met a non violent somalian .....i mean c'mon what does a poster naturally conclude?poor choice of words may be.I am a somalian yet i am just another decent fellow human being working his a*** off to earn a decent living.


Just because you met some thugs do not presume....sigh i am tired of saying that all over again.In any case these gang of somalians have nothing to do with this story just like kurdish,asian,english gangs etc.

I will admit i could have worded this a little better and will now be happy to say i've spoken to very nice somalians :thumbsup:

I will admit i could have worded this a little better and will now be happy to say i've spoken to very nice somalians :thumbsup:

:D :) thanks matey

Raise your hand if you think this girl will have learnt from recent events and will be detered from doing the same or similar again with such a leniant punishment.


Which girl are you talking about?? I imagine that the bully has been surrounded by family and friends who give her a lot of sympathy for her scars and has villified the Somali girl into being a crazy psychopath (much as many on this forum seem to have done) who acted totally unprevoked (this is the impression I got from seeing her dad interviewed on tv the other day). Do you think she will have learnt her lesson, and stopped bullying vunerable people?
I heard from someone who works at the school that they'd had a lot of problems with this girl in the past, and she's a nasty piece of work. The Somali girl on the other hand had up to that point been a good pupil and well behaved.
Also, as far as being deterred to do the same thing again, should we not hope that anyone should be spared from being put in the position where they feel attacking someone with a razorblade is the only way out?

Quote Jimbob1989
' Yes, bullying had gone one before, but the day it happened, the attack was unprovoked which to me, gives me the feeling that this young girl seriously needs a mental analaysis, simply because she must have let her anger build up in a way that is not healthy for anyone and does not give reason for slashing a 13 year old girl accross the face with a razor.'

How can you say it was unprevoked? The girl had been bullied and attacked over a period of time. Perhaps she does need 'mental analysis', she should receive some kind of help whatever. She is a child whos parents died, has probably seen things unimaginable to us in her home country, has come to a new country alone and has received horriffic abuse once she's got here. I don't know about you, but if any one of those things had happened to me before I was 12 I would be pretty upset! People have receiced councelling in this country for a lot less.
I'm not trying to excuse what she did, it was wrong and she should be punished for that (which she has been). Just bare in mind that she was 12, and not exactly from a privileged, stable background. It doesn't make her an evil psycopath who should be strung up, just a troubled little girl who was pushed to her limit.

I could be wrong but I imagine that Jimbobs view on which child was the bully and which one the innocent victim may be unduly influenced by the colour of each childs skin.

I was shocked that this Shanni girl was the REAL bully, it even made the news down here. But then my shock was replaced by great satisfaction as I realised that this bully would be scarred for life, which is what bullie deserve. What didnt shock me though was that there is a certain poster on this thread who knows the family and is defending them...step forward the king of chavs...you know who you are

This is a typical event in Sheffield schools. A child is constantly bullied and culminating in an event where her head is bashed repeatedly against the wall in full view of pupils and teachers but the child responsible is not even isolated for a day. The bullied child feels there is no protection from the school and decides to defend herself. Obviously a razor blade is too far but what does a child do if they can't physically defend themselves from attack? My children are at another Sheffield school but have frequently found that there is no protection at school, bullies are not punished or suspended or even isolated so they get worse. It's time the schools got to grips with bullying. If you are a parent and your child gets bullied maybe it's time to call in the police, maybe then the L.E.A. would do something. I think someone should sue the LEA on the Somali girl's behalf for failing to protect her too. Goodness knows what she saw in Somalia. Parents killed maybe, torture. Imagine how terrified she must have been.

I have to laugh (sadly) when people say that the Somali girl should have controlled her emotions even if she was being bullied so badly that it had turned into physical harm. These people do not understand the first thing about the intricacies of child psychology and the reactions of alienated people to being bullied.

So the girl has been seen in x, y or z place 'mouthing off' or whatever. Firstly, how can we be sure it is her. But more importantly, even if she was 'mouthing off', personality change is a real consequence of abuse. the mildest child can go totally off the rails, become violent, evn become a bully themselves sometimes. Even adults naturally 'snap' in a reaction to extreme events. How the hell can a child be expected to 'control itself'?

When this girl was punched so hard her head smashed into a wall, the teachers witnessed it but did nothing, zip. The girl had no parents to go home to, no parents to complain to the school or call the police to deal with Naylor's attack. Even if she did have someone to go to, being recent Somali immigrants they may not have had the language skills to deal with getting a prosecution anyway. The girl was clearly left alone, so for whatever reason, be it desperation or boiling anger, or even cold blooded planning, she then slashed her attacker in the face.

Ultimately both girls have been let down by that school. The Somali girl for being left to deal with her humiliation and pain by doing something which has branded her with a criminal record, and the other girl for not being dealt with and now being left with scars - and probably such a terrible reputation as a possible bully across this city that she will never be able to rise above it.

Let's not forget what might happen if you watch football in Somalia:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/5150118.stm

:o

I could be wrong but I imagine that Jimbobs view on which child was the bully and which one the innocent victim may be unduly influenced by the colour of each childs skin.

From some of his posts on here, I'd assume the same:(.

I notice that they only seemed to release the fact she was somarlian after the trial :suspect: because I heard it several times on the radio before, but they never released her ethinicity :huh:

Anyone who is going to slash someone accross the face deserves a mental assessment whatever the outcome of the trial. I don't care if its traditional to slash people in somarlia, were aren't in somarlia, were in england and she follows our laws here.

Get real, like Taylor followed the laws? Taylor applied the law of the jungle and the Somalian is the savage?

'She follows our laws'? zzzzzz when someone is bullied severely for a long time they may have something more important to consider than 'our laws' administered by unelected judges anyway and therefore nothing to do with any 'our' at all.

I also suspect by your reactionary posts that if a white victim of an attack by blacks/asylum seekers used a knife it would be teaching the fuzzy wuzzies a damn good lesson.

Then it should be made to be, i'm sorry but she chose to live here so therefore she should follow our law, end of! i wouldn't go there and expect to act like some violent person and not except to be punished just because i don't have any parents. She will have some parents, whether they're foster parents or whatever, a 13 year old wouldn't be living on her own and she will have had councelling etc!
To play the '13 year old poor orphan in a foreign country' line is ridiculous!
Please try and live in reality we are talking about a very young child who was battered in front of a mob the day before while 'the law' e.g. the teachers did nothing.

I am always amazed by people who just try and insert their way of thinking which is a product of their own lives (in this case no doubt much better quality of life) into others minds. The CHILD was DESPERATE and did what many do, evened up the odds against a bigger and more powerful opponent.

So much for her not knowing much english then (as I said earlier)

Yes, I am sure laughalot's quote is a bona fide piece of trustworthy evidence on which to base a judgement.:loopy:

They didn't punish her to the extent they should have. She recieved no custodial sentence and if that is not wounding with intent to cause grievous bodily harm, I'm damed if I know what is.

Slashing someone accross the face with a razor is simply evil and unacceptable under any circumstances, no matter what your beliefs and background.

I've been bullied, I didn't slash the guy accross the face with a razor did I?

A custodial sentence for a child of 13? I know your views are more 1906 than 2006 but that just takes the p***:loopy:

She was a 14 yearold girl who got away with it, even if this Sheffield Lass was bullying her, there is no reason to warrant a slash across the face with a pencil sharpner razor. The Somalian girl thought she was in her right to do this as it is acceptable in that country, the fact is that she shouldn't have and should hae been placed in a detention centre for kids, have you all see the mess on that girls face, they will stay with her for ever, this Somalian girl, who has been granted refugee status here, should have been told how to act in these circumstances, if you ask me the judge got it wrong again....From the Judge's leniant punishment, kids will see this and thnk "I won't get in trouble for slashing someone", however,lets just hope this never happens again in Sheffield.

May I recommend children are taught the finer points of the law in School and then the statement they do not understand the law nonesense is removed and we can at least have some form of deterrant. For every act that breaks the law there should be a consequence, unfortunately in a lot of cases vandalism etc there is no consequence and hence the child continues. I presume the majority of teenagers are good but the only ones I ever have contact with are complete and utter scum with no respect.

..opened this thread this morning, expecting far different reactions to those given. Was pleasantly surprised to see mostly sensible and supportive views expressed with the odd sensational ones from supporters of both sides. What the accused did was unacceptable, whatever her expectations of the consequences of her own brand of summary justice' were, she is a convicted criminal and was tried by the laws of this land..so justice is served, as perceived by the jury (who are made up of a cross section of our local community, not just red, necks & not just wishy washy socialists!) and the judge, who is not famed for a liberal approach to sentencing.
Both Shanni & the accussed are victims, that is a fact, brought to trial and heard independently and all parties dealt with, the accused in her conviction and sentence, and Shanni in the fact that her attacker received a lighter sentence due to the mitigation of her evidenced bullying of the girl in the first place. I guess if the Somalian girl does anything like this again, it will have little to do with her 'culture' and more to do with the culture that she lives in, she will, in all probability, receive the custodial sentence many posters believe is justified..this is probably exactly the same sentencing path that most assault offenders follow, irrespective of their ethnicity.

A custodial sentence for a child of 13? I know your views are more 1906 than 2006 but that just takes the p***:loopy:

To be fair though, if they did lock youngsters up, it would virtually wipe out youth crime in a lot of areas IMO.

At the moment the kids break the law cos they know the worst they'll get is either a big fine (which their Parents pay) or a few hours in some cushy little community service.

I would just like to say i aint posted any of these threads as i ant been well and been away and somebody as been using my comp

The Somalian girl thought she was in her right to do this as it is acceptable in that country, ..

This is conjecture not established fact.

She was a 14 yearold girl who got away with it,


no, she didn't, she was sentenced, and now has a criminal record

even if this Sheffield Lass was bullying her, there is no reason to warrant a slash across the face with a pencil sharpner razor.
True, but she probalbly had no one to turn to and couldn't think of another way out

The Somalian girl thought she was in her right to do this as it is acceptable in that country,
you don't actually know this, it may just be media speculation, and if she did, well I'm sure she doesn't now

the fact is that she shouldn't have and should have been placed in a detention centre for kids,
and what of the girl who puncher her head into the wall? For a first offence born out of desperation, that is a bit harsh

have you all see the mess on that girls face, they will stay with her for ever,
Apparently the pictures in the papers etc were taken just after it occured and the scaring has since gone down a lot and is hardly visable anymore. Yes it's not nice for her, but I've heard she's done quite well financially out of it, so it's not all bad for her

this Somalian girl, who has been granted refugee status here, should have been told how to act in these circumstances,

These circumstances should have been prevented long before it came to this!

if you ask me the judge got it wrong again....
The judge was in possession of all the facts, which we aren't so who are we to say?

From the Judge's leniant punishment, kids will see this and thnk "I won't get in trouble for slashing someone",
They may also think if I bully someone into retaliating, I may get a nice cash payout

however,lets just hope this never happens again in Sheffield.
amen

She was a 14 yearold girl .

No, she was a 12 year old girl who was 13 by the time it got to court.

A custodial sentence for a child of 13? I know your views are more 1906 than 2006 but that just takes the p***:loopy:

So we do what exactly, say to every 13 year old that it's alright to slash someone's face with a razor? Maybe we should put that on posters with your address under it:hihi:

Seriously; are there any liberals out there who can actually offer an opinion as to how to deal with a problem rather than just telling people their opinions are old fashioned?

Personally I think a small custodian setence should be in order but also I think that OFSTED should fail all schools that do not have a proven anti-bullying scheme. I think the girl who has been attacked should have also had words with the Headteacher regarding bullying. In the end we have to protect kids, even from each other.

I think that OFSTED should fail all schools that do not have a proven anti-bullying scheme.

80% of schools would probably fail the inspectioons, in that case:(.

think that OFSTED should fail all schools that do not have a proven anti-bullying scheme

And what will that acheive?

So we do what exactly, say to every 13 year .

She was 12.

And what will that acheive?

It will make schools sit up and take the issue seriously, if they thought they were going to get put on special measures then they would do something instead of ignoring it. Schools are not prisons and children should feel safe.

Another thing, there's a lot of talk about the girl's in qusetion regarding their race I'd like to know just what colour or what her home culture is has got to do with anything?:confused:

She was 12.

So you I presume you wouldn't mind if a 12 year old slashed you across your clock? Doesn't it hurt as much if a child stabs you?

Plenty of people get bullied but it doesn't justify slashing someone across the face. The Somali girl has learning difficulties and has a different culture to us, yeah we know that, but surely she must know right from wrong and should be punished for what she did.

So you I presume you wouldn't mind if a 12 year old slashed you across your clock? Doesn't it hurt as much if a child stabs you?

People are talking up her age. She was 12 not 13 or 14 and this makes a big difference at her age. It also makes a big difference when people are talking about putting her in gaol.

If I was set upon by anyone who slashed me accross the face then I would expect a severe sentence for them, depending on their age. If a 12 year old slashed me across the face after I had just repeatedly punched her in the head over and over again and after I had carried out a campaign of racist bullying then I would expect to go to gaol and for her to be given a medal. If a 12 year old girl slashed another 12 year old girl after a campaign of bullying culminating in being repeatedly punched in the head while 100 people watched and did nothing, then I expect pretty much what has happened should happen.

Plenty of people get bullied but it doesn't justify slashing someone across the face. The Somali girl has learning difficulties and has a different culture to us, yeah we know that, but surely she must know right from wrong and should be punished for what she did.

she has been convicted and a sentence passed, she is being punished.

What about the bully, when will she be on trial for assault.

People are talking up her age. She was 12 not 13 or 14 and this makes a big difference at her age. It also makes a big difference when people are talking about putting her in gaol.

If I was set upon by anyone who slashed me accross the face then I would expect a severe sentence for them, depending on their age. If a 12 year old slashed me across the face after I had just repeatedly punched her in the head over and over again and after I had carried out a campaign of racist bullying then I would expect to go to gaol and for her to be given a medal. If a 12 year old girl slashed another 12 year old girl after a campaign of bullying culminating in being repeatedly punched in the head while 100 people watched and did nothing, then I expect pretty much what has happened should happen.

How very biblical of you. What you are suggesting is anarchy. Your values say that a child should not go to a delinquent prison but it's alright to extract revenge like that? Well then that is the world you have chosen for us where it is all right to carry out any vendetta. I am deeply sorry for anyone who has been bullied (I was bullied at school to the point where I couldn't feel confident for years after I left school). But I think if I would have done that (which I would not as it is not in my nature) and gotten away with it then I wouldn't like to think what kind of adult I would have turned out to be. I mean if somebody jostled me on the street I might turn around and slap them if I thought I would never get punished, if the system had taught me that it's ok to do that. And that is the message that will ultimately go out to all kids.

she has been convicted and a sentence passed, she is being punished.

What about the bully, when will she be on trial for assault.

So exactly was this girls punishment?

I think you misunderstand Ken's post.

a 12 year old slashed me across the face after I had just repeatedly punched her in the head over and over again

That would make it self defence, although probably using excessive force...

So exactly was this girls punishment?

You have read the thread right? It was detailed early on.

You have read the thread right? It was detailed early on.

Yeah a 2 year supervision order, its not exactly punishment!

Yeah a 2 year supervision order, its not exactly punishment!

It wasn't just a 2 year supervision order. She also had her head punched repeatedly against a wall while watched by 100 pupils and staff.

It wasn't just a 2 year supervision order. She also had her head punched repeatedly against a wall while watched by 100 pupils and staff.

Yes and the girl she slashed now has permanent scars on her face.

Yes and the girl she slashed now has permanent scars on her face.

how do you know she didn't receive some level of brain damage from having her head punched into a wall? It's possible...

Yes and the girl she slashed now has permanent scars on her face.

So they both behaved badly, the jury looked at all the evidence and a suitable punishment was handed down that took into account both sides of the story. Justice was done.

how do you know she didn't receive some level of brain damage from having her head punched into a wall? It's possible...

Yes it is possible, but no one knows as its never been mentioned.

Yeah a 2 year supervision order, its not exactly punishment!

Your wrong. It is exactly that, punishment.

So they both behaved badly, the jury looked at all the evidence and a suitable punishment was handed down that took into account both sides of the story. Justice was done.
it depends on what you call a suitable punishment i suppose,to some she appeared to get away with a very serious crime,to others she has been punished, the school needs to be looked at,if the girl had not slashed the victim what would have happened about the bullying ? nothing had been done as both girls were in school the following day,had the bully been excluded on the same day this crime would probably never have happened.

if the school is a mainstream school should the girl with learning difficulties have been placed there ? the case is closed but there are still questions that need asking,if nothing is done to prevent such things by the schools, who is to say it wont happen again ? when my child enters the school gates i expect her to come under their protection,anything happening on school grounds is the responsibility of the school, and yes i know this is the fact as i have been talking to my childs headmaster about her security whilst on school premises concerning another unrelated incident

Yes it is possible, but no one knows as its never been mentioned.

Exactly. You can't go mouthing off, condemning one person, exonerating another when you don't have all the facts. The judge and people in the court room are the ones who know all the facts, as far as is possible to know, and have set the punishment. For all I know they may both have been evil little so and sos, but equally they may also be lovely people who are just victims of circumstance.
The judge has given his/her verdict given the available evidence, and yes sometimes they get it wrong, but we don't know that so I'm going to give her the benifit of the doubt before baying for blood.

Besides, you can't dole out punishment purely based on actual injuries sustained (perhapse compensation you can, which I think the 1st girl has received) -having your head smashed into a wall has the potential to kill - no uproar was made about this (or at least there wouldn't have been had the Somali girl not retaliated), and no one would have suggested the girl who did that should be put into custody.

[QUOTE=AlBal]Yes and the girl she slashed now has permanent scars on her face.[/QUOTE

its a shame that its took that to make this thug think twice about bullying others, she got her comeuppance

Exactly. You can't go mouthing off, condemning one person, exonerating another when you don't have all the facts. The judge and people in the court room are the ones who know all the facts, as far as is possible to know, and have set the punishment. For all I know they may both have been evil little so and sos, but equally they may also be lovely people who are just victims of circumstance.
The judge has given his/her verdict given the available evidence, and yes sometimes they get it wrong, but we don't know that so I'm going to give her the benifit of the doubt before baying for blood.

Besides, you can't dole out punishment purely based on actual injuries sustained (perhapse compensation you can, which I think the 1st girl has received) -having your head smashed into a wall has the potential to kill - no uproar was made about this (or at least there wouldn't have been had the Somali girl not retaliated), and no one would have suggested the girl who did that should be put into custody.

I never mouthed off!

If all the people in the world who had/are been bullied turned around and slashed people in the face then what would you say?

For all we know the Somali girl could have said and done things to Shanni to make her hit her, thats the thing with the papers, they tell you what they want.

I'd say, that's probably the end of bullying for a good long while.

The papers might, but presumably the judge did more than just read the sun to decide on a verdict.

For all we know the Somali girl could have said and done things to Shanni to make thats the thing with the papers, they tell you what they want.

She did, she was black in a public place and she spoke funny.

It will make schools sit up and take the issue seriously, if they thought they were going to get put on special measures then they would do something instead of ignoring it. Schools are not prisons and children should feel safe.

Another thing, there's a lot of talk about the girl's in qusetion regarding their race I'd like to know just what colour or what her home culture is has got to do with anything?:confused:

That'll be the PC Brigade sticking its oar in, you can't do owt or say owt to coloureds cos it'll upset them.... :loopy:

Political Correctness my a**e! :gag:

That'll be the PC Brigade sticking its oar in, you can't do owt or say owt to coloureds cos it'll upset them.... :loopy:

Political Correctness my a**e! :gag:

So, Rich, I take it you are in favour of racist bullying? In the context of this thread and this case your comments appear rather obnoxious.

That'll be the PC Brigade sticking its oar in, you can't do owt or say owt to coloureds cos it'll upset them.... :loopy:

Political Correctness my a**e! :gag:

..suppose it depends on what you want to say Rich. If you want to draw a conclusion about someone purely because of their skin colour then no, you cant say what you want, because you're bound to draw generalisations. A previous poster made a good comparison to how white, football fans may be perceived negatively..you can't process an argument to conclude that all football fans display the behaviour patterns of the more trouble making, newsworthy minority or because they are football fans they might behave in a particular way.
Ps..btw..on the downside, I doubt that's it true what they say about the size of black blokes genitals, another racial generalisation lol

So, Rich, I take it you are in favour of racist bullying? In the context of this thread and this case your comments appear rather obnoxious.

No, I deplore bullying of ANY sort... I was bullied throughout ALL of my School life.. And it was ALWAYS me that end up in most trouble, never them that did the bullying :rant:

All because I used to fight back against them :loopy:

Teachers, bah! They know nowt!

Yes and the girl she slashed now has permanent scars on her face.

Serves her right for being a overbearing bully:(.

So we do what exactly, say to every 13 year old that it's alright to slash someone's face with a razor? Maybe we should put that on posters with your address under it:hihi:

Seriously; are there any liberals out there who can actually offer an opinion as to how to deal with a problem rather than just telling people their opinions are old fashioned?

Personally I think a small custodian setence should be in order but also I think that OFSTED should fail all schools that do not have a proven anti-bullying scheme. I think the girl who has been attacked should have also had words with the Headteacher regarding bullying. In the end we have to protect kids, even from each other.

Perhaps you should watch Scum for an idea of what happens to kids with custodial sentences.

Obviously such kids are messed up in the head and that is where treatment should start, not with simple brutalisation that produces career thugs.

I am not a pacifist wet and have had a few scraps in my time with idiots, however kids should not be treated like miniature adults.

I've been sat here reading through 16 pages of this post. I've was disgusted by the first 6 pages or so of "opinions", some of which were vicious and twisted. Thankfully, I am aware of the full facts of this case so a little bit of "straightening out" can be put forward. To start off, I should point out that Shanni's older sister was bullied at the school for many years. Quite possibly, you may have seen the sky interview with her where she said she felt she wanted to die because of the abuse she had suffered. She'd been spat at, trampled on face down in the mud, had her clothes urinated on, faeces daubed all over her PE kit, beaten repeatedly - the list goes on. The school did nothing positive to stop it.

I won't mention a single word in defence of her sister Shanni from hereon, but I'm sure you get the picture.

IMO, points to now consider are the following:-

Was there an incident 8 weeks prior to the slashing not brought up in Court, an incident where the "slasher" had already clawed at Shanni's face and brought blood. Was the "slasher" rascist towards other children to the extent that complaints had already been made about her? Was the "slasher" already seeing a Counsellor due to her violent outbursts? Can you see where this is leading? How small was the boy that Shanni was defending? Did the "slasher" let go of the boy she was beating whilst Shanni was hitting her? Were there many, many witness statements from school children supporting Shanni's version of events? Just how many blocks up is the tower block where the teacher "saw" Shanni punching like a boxer? How many times was the teacher told that there was a fight outside? How long did it take to run, eventually, down numerous flights of stairs, across a yard, plough through many hundreds of schoolchildren surrounding the fight? Did the "slasher" avoid lessons that morning to track Shanni down but failed?

cont''d

Was Shanni not charged with such a brutal and merciless attack? Had Shanni ever been reprimanded or even reported for bullying during her time at this school? And so the list goes on and on and on.

Fellow forumers - I would say that those of you who are without sin, cast the first stone, or in some cases, throw a lorry load of bricks, one of them is sure to hit the target! Are you sure you have the right target?

i was going to put something of revelvance on this thread but after reading 90% of it ive decided that after years of this burning resentment and anger bubbling up inside me, ive decided to go track down the people i went to school with that bullied me day after day after day and attack them! why an earth didnt i think about doing that years ago



so just incase im not back for a while you now know why

i was going to put something of revelvance on this thread but after reading 90% of it ive decided that after years of this burning resentment and anger bubbling up inside me, ive decided to go track down the people i went to school with that bullied me day after day after day and attack them! why an earth didnt i think about doing that years ago



so just incase im not back for a while you now know why

Sorry to hear about your bad experiences at school katy, but I really don't think (assuming you're being serious) that attacking people will help you. It makes you as bad as they are/were. You might end up being charged with assault or seriously injuring someone. Or worse.

I'm not sure you're being totally serious here - I think I detect a teeny weeny leavening of sarcasm in that post :)

But, even if you did track them down katy, I'd bet money on it that after coming face to face with the worthless pieces of dross, you wouldn't waste your breath even calling them to account for their actions.

Your best reaction to their cruelty is to have a happy life, in spite of their attempts to drag you down.

Bullying is usually caused by a feeling of inferiority, something about you made them jealous and the only way they could deal with it in their tiny minds was to try to drag you down to their level.

You're a lovely person and you don't need their approval! Let it go, it'd only make them happy to think they were still affecting you after all this time.

:rolleyes:

ohhh well thats the last time i try to inject some light heartedness into VERY VERY SERIOUS thread :hihi:






*walks away sniggering*

:rolleyes: ohhh well thats the last time i try to inject some light heartedness into VERY VERY SERIOUS thread :hihi: *walks away sniggering*

I KNEW it!! you're a very naughty girl, katy1981 ... that's the last time I shall ever take you even a tiny bit seriously :hihi:

:rolleyes:

ohhh well thats the last time i try to inject some light heartedness into VERY VERY SERIOUS thread :hihi:






*walks away sniggering*

You cheeky minx! And on a Sunday morning too...mind you, I'm smiling a wee bit 'cos rubydazzler was duped too....

ah! ha! your both smilling so my plan worked! :hihi:


and ruby you should know never too take me seriously ;)

You cheeky minx! And on a Sunday morning too...mind you, I'm smiling a wee bit 'cos rubydazzler was duped too....

She gets me everytime Halibut - if you knew her irl, you'd see - butter wouldn't melt in her mouth!!:)

She gets me everytime Halibut - if you knew her irl, you'd see - butter wouldn't melt in her mouth!!:)




:o awwwwwww cheers ruby :D

I recall outside court that the father or solicitor tried to deflect questions about the injured girls behaviour. I do not condone what the defendant did as it was extreme, but if you push people and no one listens to what you are saying there is only so much a bullied person can take. I recall lifting a boy off the floor with my hand round his neck and I was trying to choke him. I told people over and over again but because I could provide no evidence ( he was a fave of the teachers) they didn't believe me. I just snapped. Thankfully we both received an equal punishment and had to work together which was torture, but I shouldn't have done it, but at the time felt I could take no more.

interesting this thread has come to the fore again, just as the Somali girl has been involved in another incident...