I'd like to show my recognition for the sacrifices of all the people who gave their lives and show appreciation and honour for all those who took part.

What would have happened if the D-Day invasions had failed, and without the eastern front would it have been successful at all?

Apparently Eisenhower had a following statment to release to the press should the landings have failed:


"Our landings have failed to gain a satisfactory foothold and I have withdrawn the troops.

"My decision to attack at this time and place was based on the best information available.

"The troops, the air and the Navy did all that bravery and devotion to duty could do.

"If any blame or fault attaches to the attempt it is mine alone."


Had he been forced to use that what would the repercussions have been on the allied forces?

I think the A-bomb would have been used on Germany. It was only a few months after the fall of Germany that the bomb become available for use, and was used with devastating effect on Japan. As a result, Japan surrended bringing the war to an end. I'm not supporting the use of the A-bomb but had D-Day failed the Allies would have had to act quickly because Germany was also developing its own nuclear device.

i think a far more intriguing question would be what would have happened (be happeneing) if the Germans had won the war?

surely Nazi power couldn't have been sustained over such a large region?

Originally posted by Lickszz
I'd like to show my recognition for the sacrifices of all the people who gave their lives and show appreciation and honour for all those who took part.

What would have happened if the D-Day invasions had failed, and without the eastern front would it have been successful at all?

Apparently Eisenhower had a following statemtn to release to the press should the landings have failed:


"Our landings have failed to gain a satisfactory foothold and I have withdrawn the troops.

"My decision to attack at this time and place was based on the best information available.

"The troops, the air and the Navy did all that bravery and devotion to duty could do.

"If any blame or fault attaches to the attempt it is mine alone."


Had he been forced to use that what would the repercussions have been on the allied forces?

I would also like to add my humble thanks and gratitude to all the heroic men and women who suffered and died in the second World war for us, so that we could live and be free.

Quite a good book to read is "K is for killing" by Daniel Easterman.

It's purely fictitious but goes along the lines of what may have happened if the Klu Klux Klan had continued to grow in the US and got a foothold in government to coincide with Nazi Germany and decided to side with them during the war,....a chilling read, but panic not cos the good guys win in the end :)

My gratitude goes out also, to these "men" that had to go through such an ordeal to ensure our freedom when most were actually still really boys.

Originally posted by boyface


My gratitude goes out also, to these "men" that had to go through such an ordeal to ensure our freedom when most were actually still really boys.

amen to that

with the numbers of troops and craft of all kind hitler taking on russia and the logistics of the operation the question is irrelevant the allies couldnt have failed 1,000,000 troops 5,000 ships 30,000 aircraft and countless underground activities behind enemy lines it still is and probably will remain the biggest armada the world has or will ever see. the next war will be explosive the war after that will be sicks and stones.

Yes it could have failed if the lads hadn't had the guts and sense of pride to carry it through.

Numbers on each side bear no significance if one side is in defensive positions and the other side climbing out of boats and wading waist-deep through water whilst under fire.

Well done to them all. I'm proud of them, and wondering if todays 18 year olds could ever do the same.

you know nothing i have studied this in depth and you would not say yes they could if you knew anything at all about it hitler and his allies were outnumbered by 80 to 1 our way. yes when i was 18 or 32 i wouldve done i know i have done it and i was not stupid enough to take my helmet off.

My uncle was a country boy from rural Scotland and was there. Apparently he never said a word about it to anyone in the family. It must have been really traumatic.
As to the question, there would have been a re-grouping and another attempt. After the Battle of Kursk, the Russians were building up enough momentum to do the job on their own (if over a much longer period) so the Germans had no chance on two fronts.

I totally agree with what others have said. We do indeed owe these brave men a great deal of gratitute.

As for the hypothetical question of what would have happened if D-day had failed it is hard to say. You have to remember that at that time Germany was under pressure not just from the western allies but also from the Russians in the east. I think a likely consequence is that Germany would still have been defeted but much more of Europe would have been under Communist control in the post war years. The balance of power during the Cold War may have been very different.

Saying that, the Allies already had a good foothold in Italy (I think rome was liberated very close to D-day) so maybe more troops would have been added to this front.

Anyway, lets just be glad it didn't fail.

If D-Day had failed, all our German would have been a lot more fluent!!

Hiya,

A couple of interesting 'alternative histories' are :

'The Man in the High Castle' by Phillip Dick - the Japanese win the war with the US.
'Fatherland' by Robert Harris. The secret of the 'Final Solution' comes out in the 1960s at the time of a state visit of President Joseph Kennedy to a Nazi Europe.

Had D Day not succeeded, it's unlikely that the Yalta Conference (Feb. 1945) would have taken place and so the agreement between the US, UK, France and USSR to split germany AND agree on an unconditional surrender of the Germans wouldn't have taken place.

I think it highly possible that the Germans, realising that defeat was inevitable, would have come to a very quiet deal with the Western Allies to establish a new 'phoney war' or 'cold war' in the West to allow the Germans to shift stuff eastward to slow down the Russian advances.

Once they'd steadied the situation I think the Germans would then negotiate separate peaces, much to teh annoyance of The Russians. Hitler would probably have been replaced by someone like Doenitz or some other 'acceptable' Nazi and the Nuremberg trials would still have taken place. It's possible that the Western Allies might have kept quiet about the Concentration Camps until teh whole thing was settled.

Now, time for me to write my novel about this......:-)

Joe

if zee nazis won ze vaar, vee breeteesh vud allen be drivingz der neuer BMW ja? :cool:

and our overtime wouldn't be taxed.:rolleyes:

I don't think Nazi power would have lasted long even if they had won the war. People would have soon tired of a dictatorship, and there would have been a revolution.

I don't think many young people appreciate how close we were to losing the war. If the Nazis had decided to invade Britain before Pearl Harbour then we would have had absolutely no defence and Britain would have been occupied.

The biggest mistake made in the war was when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour. Once America was in the war the victory was more or less sealed. There would have been no way Germany could have contended with America even if they had taken Britain.

And even if Pearl Habour hadn't taken place then the Americans would probably still have joined the war, but it could have been a lot later and things could have been so much different.

and the trains would run on time....

The reason many of the European train systems are so efficient is because they had to be rebuilt after the war, so technically you are spot on.

If D-Day had failed then I guess we would have either bombed the **** out of Germany or just tried to attack somewhere else.

Do not forget however!
The Russian front and Normandy were not the only places in Europe being fought over.
What about the soldiers in Italy? They were making huge territorial gains and yet they are forgotten.

This very question is asked on Radio 4 tonight at 10:30pm.

22:30 What If...
D-Day Had Failed?

In a special D-Day edition of the series which rewrites history, Professor Christopher Andrew and a group of distinguished guests discuss what would have happened if the Allied landings in Normandy had not succeeded.

In the Map Room at Southwick House are D-Day veteran John Gritten, who was on board a landing craft moored in nearby Southampton Sound, and historians Professor David Stafford of Edinburgh University; Professor Dennis Showalter from Colorado Liberal Arts College in the United States; Dr Soenke Neitzel of the University of Mainz in Germany; and Dr Gay Sheffield, of Kings College London and the Joint Services Staff College in Shrivenham

The observation made about European Railways also applied to industry.

After the war a lot of non-German industrial plant had been confiscated by the Nazis and then was destroyed by bombing and fighting, and what wasn't was taken by the victors as 'spoils'.

Result was that the Germans had to get new plant and machinery after the war, while the Brits (especially) plodded on with pre-war stuff or captured stuff, which was clapped out or just incapable of doing the work required for more modern engineering.

Same thing happened in Japan. The US funded the rebuilding of Japan in the fifties and look what happened there.

Originally posted by Cols


In the Map Room at Southwick House are D-Day veteran John Gritten, who was on board a landing craft moored in nearby Southampton Sound, and historians Professor David Stafford of Edinburgh University; Professor Dennis Showalter from Colorado Liberal Arts College in the United States; Dr Soenke Neitzel of the University of Mainz in Germany; and Dr Gay Sheffield, of Kings College London and the Joint Services Staff College in Shrivenham


Well thats just great hey, Dr Gay Sheffield - thanks a fooking bunch considering they bombed the crap outta us... yeah, ta' very much!

Originally posted by dontaskme
you know nothing i have studied this in depth and you would not say yes they could if you knew anything at all about it hitler and his allies were outnumbered by 80 to 1 our way. yes when i was 18 or 32 i wouldve done i know i have done it and i was not stupid enough to take my helmet off.

So we've all made a mistake then?

It didn't take guts, because we had them outnumbered 80 - 1?

These lads didn't have to wade up a beach into machinegun fire coming from well defended positions?

They didn't see their pals mown down next to them, but carry on regardless?

They aren't heroes?

And the 18 year olds I'm talking about are not the ones who are, or were, in the modern army as volunteers. I'm talking about an army conscripted today to perform the same task using the same 18 year olds who at present mug, rob and probably spend their time in Europe giving Britain a bad name.

To sum up, if the lads had buried their heads in the sand and refused to go forward through fear then we'd still have won?

I doubt it!

And we'd probably have a chance in Euro 2004!:(

"If any blame or fault attaches to the attempt it is mine alone."
[/B]

That's a statment todays leaders could use a lot more often.

The D-Day Landings and the subsequent Overlord Campaign until the break out in July / August 1944 were an incredible feat of arms.

The previous large scale attack on occupied France, the Dieppe Raid of...um...1943?? - cost a great many allied lives - mainly Canadians - but showed what might be encountered and thus saved many lives during Operation Neptune (the landings themselves).

Even so, during the summer of 1944 the daily Allied casualty rates were occasionally equivalent to thsoe inflicted on the British in the Somme campaign of 1916 - 60,000 a day.

In a time when we call someone a hero because they kick a ball in a net, and we give acres of newsprint to Z list celebrities who just happened to have 'accidentally' been photographed falling out of their dresses, these guys were quite amazing.

Originally posted by Sidla
I don't think Nazi power would have lasted long even if they had won the war. People would have soon tired of a dictatorship, and there would have been a revolution.



I'm not sure....I remember reading somewhere that no established dictatorship determined to survive has ever been overthrown from within without the help of external forces.

People may think about the fall of the Berlin Wall but the main thing there was that the Russians just washed their hands of their East German puppet government.

Joe

Originally posted by dontaskme
yes when i was 18 or 32 i wouldve done i know i have done it and i was not stupid enough to take my helmet off.

dontaskme, could you clarify the above quote please?

Does this mean that you took part in D-Day type landings when you were 18 and 32, and if so where?

What is the significance of taking one's helmet off?

This isn't a dig dontaskme, just a query because you haven't made your point very clear.

Thanks.

Originally posted by Sidla
I don't think Nazi power would have lasted long even if they had won the war. People would have soon tired of a dictatorship, and there would have been a revolution.



Ahem, the Soviet Union?


On a different note whilst we´re on alternate possibilities, I can heartily recommend the ´World War´series of books by Harry Turtledove.
In the story WW2 is raging as per history until slap bang in the middle of it there is an alien invasion of earth. Sounds ridiculous but is actually very good.