Who has voted which way in the local elections? Is the Sheffield Forum a Labour/Conservative/Lib Dem/Green website!?! Or none of the above!

It's a private ballot so I'm not saying.

I will say though that it's the very first time I have EVER voted.
Feels quite good in a way!

copme on where all friends here!

What made peoples mind up?

Vote for who you voted for!?!?!?

crossed the boxes, placed within envelopes, must remember to put it in the post box.

Democratic Socialist Alliance - People Before Profit.

I don't vote, cos as far as I'm concerned all Politicians can go shag a sheep (apologies to the mods for the language, feel free to edit as apt).

I'd stand for Parliament myself but I have neither the time nor the patience to become "one of them".

Threads merged...

can you add an 'other' option as well?

I've done that, thanks.

wow.......labour should get slaughtered if all us lib dems go out and actually vote !!!!

When were the local elections? I don't think I'm getting all my mail. :o

Election day is 10th June, but you need to have your postal ballot!

Give the town Hall a ring. I'm sure there will be a direct election number, but the switchboard number is 273 4567. :thumbsup:

The elections office number is 273 4093. You will probabley have to go into the Town Hall to collect it yourself to vote in time.

Looks like the Lib-Dems are romping ahead in the virtual poll!

well we forgot to post ours... wonder how many others did the same??

How can you have forgotten, the deadline isn't till the 10th. :confused: It is only the 4th today, surely it is not going to take more than 6 days to travel through the post (or shouldn't I say that we all know royal mail ;))

Originally posted by honeyplanet
well we forgot to post ours... wonder how many others did the same??

Forgot or threw away? Either post it by Wednesday or take it down to the Town Hall by Thursday night.

hmmm, wonder how many votes are gonna vbe declared totally invalid? i've just checked my form, and discovered that its actually my partners thgat i'd picked up by mistake. hence both of our votes will be invalid! (tho i do still have time to get another ballot)

:( best thing to do is phone the elections office and ask on 273 4093

Originally posted by DaBouncer
It's a private ballot so I'm not saying.
The software doesn't log who voted for what - so this is anonymous :)

Could we have "didnt vote" instead of other. Seems it be a large difference in th amount of views to votes!

I work for the New Labour controlled council and I'm praying that the Lib Dems kick this hopeless bunch of money wasters out

wouldn't be too keen if i were you.

the libs would probably make you redundant!

Originally posted by Skatiechik
How can you have forgotten, the deadline isn't till the 10th. :confused: It is only the 4th today, surely it is not going to take more than 6 days to travel through the post (or shouldn't I say that we all know royal mail ;))

No my mistake for some reason we thought the deadline was last weds.. so we still have time to post cheers.. although the bar codes worry my partner hes convinced himself that it wont be anonomus

I wonder if there will be many Gus Troobev's voting this time? :rolleyes:

I voted Labour because the alternatives don't bear thinking about

I doubt I'll vote.... The flippin' forms are so annoyingly overcomplicated and I have sod all idea who to vote for anyway so I just decided not to bother.

And yes I know all about the sacrifices during the wars to get me the privelidge of being ABLE to vote in the first place, but meh, if I choose not to bother then that's my choice.

Originally posted by Rich
I doubt I'll vote.... The flippin' forms are so annoyingly overcomplicated

It's like this........ you put a lickle cwoss in the boxes corresponding to your chosen candidate(s), put in correct envelope as instructed, get a witness to sign the witness form, and post. Hardly rocket science.

Originally posted by t020
It's like this........ you put a lickle cwoss in the boxes corresponding to your chosen candidate(s), put in correct envelope as instructed, get a witness to sign the witness form, and post. Hardly rocket science.

Well yeah but how in the hell are you supposed to know who to vote for?

And lickle cwoss?! WTF?!

You sir, are an idiot.

Originally posted by Rich
Well yeah but how in the hell are you supposed to know who to vote for?



But that's not what you said, is it? You said the *forms* are over complicated, and then went on to make a second point regarding who to vote for.

You sir, are an idiot.

Originally posted by Tony
Looks like the Lib-Dems are romping ahead in the virtual poll!
romping into level pegging with that other great force in politics, the Green Party. Labour limping along on third with the tories splitting the remainder of the lunatic voting fringe with BNP, UKIP, Arthur Scargill and the independents.

Though come on phan, even you can't believe that this poll is representative in any way, no matter how much you support the Green party. The chances of Labour and the Green party sharing the same % of the vote in Sheffield local elections are about as slim as a UFO landing on earth during the same day.

Originally posted by t020
Though come on phan, even you can't believe that this poll is representative in any way, no matter how much you support the Green party. The chances of Labour and the Green party sharing the same % of the vote in Sheffield local elections are about as slim as a UFO landing on earth during the same day.

who said anything about believing this poll is representative? I was merely commenting that last time I looked the greens were neck and neck with the liberals. although in the time it took to write this, the lib dems have once more surged into a strong position leaving the greens and labour in their wake (and the tories not waving, but drowning)

Mmmm it is an interesting spread.

the english democrats!!! :)

THE GREENS (cos mum said greens were good for me).

All the rest? Tried them, they're cr@p.

Well the Greens are in the lead now on 13, with the Lib-Dems and Labour sharing second with 12.

Hmmm! :)

Originally posted by Tony
Well the Greens are in the lead now on 13, with the Lib-Dems and Labour sharing second with 12.

Hmmm! :)

Vote Green for a lib dem victory. Isn't democracy a crazy, topsy turvy thing?:loopy:

Well the Lib-Dems are in front again.

It's interesting that the Conservatives are lagging behind at the back. Whilst this is not exactly a scientific poll, I would guess that it's a fair overall representation, and it seems that the Tories are getting a proper stuffing.

I guess that the Liub-Dems are probably in line for victory, though we may be are heading for a hung Council. If so my guess is that any party would ally with the Lib-Dems rather than Labour.

One thing does seem likely though - it looks like Anne Smith's Conservatives might have less councillor than the Greens at this rate - and she is the only one at the moment!

It's interesting to note that the last tory councillor, who sat alongside Ann, was a defectee from the lib dems plus t020, an avowed tory, would rather a lib dem council than a labour one.

So the choice seems to be labour council or a tory clone council.

Oooo, Max, that is rather mischievous thing to say for a man in your position. :nono:

The differences between the Tories and the Lib-Dems are as wide as they could be, and certainly wider then the differences between Labour and Tory, who most people in this and other threads seem to think are rather similar. :P

Just so people can make up their own minds, here are the links to the main 3 parties local websites

Sheffield Liberal Democrat (http://www.libdems.force9.co.uk/index.htm)

Sheffield Labour (http://www.sheffieldlabourparty.co.uk/)

Sheffield Conservative (http://www.toryhallam.co.uk)

Sheffield Green Party (http://www.sheffieldgreenparty.org.uk/)

Saying that the Lib Dems are Tory clones is rubbish! Lib Dems are a party in their own right with their own ideology, although maybe everyone dosent know what it is!

Originally posted by Tony
The differences between the Tories and the Lib-Dems are as wide as they could be, and certainly wider then the differences between Labour and Tory, who most people in this and other threads seem to think are rather similar. :P
mmm, charlie boys' spending cut plans are pretty much in line with the tories tho, aren't they? ditto privatisation.

same politics, broader smile is all (n maybe a better brand of whisky)

Max

If you're going to make comments like that I think it's only fair that you let everyone know what your allegiance is to the Labour Party.

Are you going to tell, or should I?

mmm, charlie boys' spending cut plans are pretty much in line with the tories tho, aren't they? ditto privatisation.

Lib Dems are for cutting out waste in the civil service, put so are all three major parties. The difference between the LIb Dems and the Tories is that the LD's actually state which sections would go, such as the DTI. Tories refer to "effiecency savings", yeah right!:wink:

Originally posted by max
Vote Green for a lib dem victory.

Mmm max, now you are misleading people. You should only vote Green if you want the Greens to win.

Similarly don't vote for the lib dems unless you want them to win.

Likewise don't vote for labour unless you can live with a labour victory.

Anyone who votes green in the hope of electing a lib dem could be in for a surprise if all the bleating lib dem flock follow suit.

"Baaah, but I voted tactically baaah"
"So did all of us Baaaa"

(remember some of the the lib dems are not to bright - they lost a euro seat because too many of them voted for the 'Literal Democrats' who also contested the seat - roflmto)

Sad to see the Greens are now winning the poll. I dont think it reflects actually voting patterns

Anyone who votes green in the hope of electing a lib dem could be in for a surprise if all the bleating lib dem flock follow suit.

this dosent make sense

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
Mmm max, now you are misleading people.
I agree. That sounds like a comment designed to dilute the Lib-Dem vote rather than enhance the Green (or Labour) vote.

Come on Max, lets see your hand.

Come on Max, lets see your hand.

Is he a closit Blairite? :hihi: :loopy:

He's a secretary for the labour party.

He's a secretary for the labour party.

That figures! So he had an interest in trying to mislead potential Lib Dem voters. Shame on you! :nono:

Seems as though Alistar Campbells spirit lives on in the Labour party.

What makes it worse is his position as a moderator. Naughty, naughty Max.

Originally posted by goose
Lib Dems are for cutting out waste in the civil service, put so are all three major parties. The difference between the LIb Dems and the Tories is that the LD's actually state which sections would go, such as the DTI. Tories refer to "effiecency savings", yeah right!:wink:
mmm they actually refer to at least £5billion of cuts, while managing to increase the amount spent on 'fluffy' services, all with only a minimal tax rise for the rich. hmmm, sounds about as believable as the last time the libs got elected to the council, promising not to try and sell off council housing. and what was the first thing they did? (still very keen on privatisation too i note).

I see the lib treasury spokesman has even been totally explicit in stating that the lib-dems stand for "subsidies for the rich".

Nice.

Originally posted by sanman
What makes it worse is his position as a moderator. Naughty, naughty Max.

Whats to stop him "rigging" the poll results? Can he do that?

Originally posted by commie pig
mmm they actually refer to at least £5billion of cuts, while managing to increase the amount spent on 'fluffy' services, all with only a minimal tax rise for the rich. hmmm, sounds about as believable as the last time the libs got elected to the council, promising not to try and sell off council housing. and what was the first thing they did? (still very keen on privatisation too i note).

I see the lib treasury spokesman has even been totally explicit in stating that the lib-dems stand for "subsidies for the rich".

Nice.

Think you need to get your facts right commie. Lib Dems plan to increase the top rate of tax from 40% to 50% (those earning over £100,000) and make some public sector cuts.

They propose to abolish tuition fees altogether, replace the Council tax with a local income tax and provide free care for the elderley. Look at Scotland for an example.

Originally posted by goose
Think you need to get your facts right commie. Lib Dems plan to increase the top rate of tax from 40% to 50% (those earning over £100,000) and make some public sector cuts.

They propose to abolish tuition fees altogether, replace the Council tax with a local income tax and provide free care for the elderley. Look at Scotland for an example.
yup, that's what isaid! a pretty minimal rise in taxes for the rich along with an unrealistic plan for public spending that can only be met by cuts in other area's of public expenditure.

which is almost exactly the kind of thing they were promising before theyt were last elected to run the council isn't it?

I think votings a load of crap they should just pick straws.

Originally posted by goose
Whats to stop him "rigging" the poll results? Can he do that? I don't think that Max would dream of doing that for one second.

Originally posted by commie pig
yup, that's what isaid! a pretty minimal rise in taxes for the rich along with an unrealistic plan for public spending that can only be met by cuts in other area's of public expenditure.

which is almost exactly the kind of thing they were promising before theyt were last elected to run the council isn't it? Minimal??? What's minimal about an increase of 20% in your personal tax bill? Or to look at it another way, a 20% cut in your personal income... and spending power!

Anyway, that's never going to happen because that's at a national level, and this is a local and European election.

Originally posted by commie pig
yup, that's what isaid! a pretty minimal rise in taxes for the rich along with an unrealistic plan for public spending that can only be met by cuts in other area's of public expenditure.

which is almost exactly the kind of thing they were promising before theyt were last elected to run the council isn't it?

Once again your wrong. The Lib Dems sorted out the Council and introduced a number of things that are now nationally acclaimed, such as the one stop shop at Howden House.

THey got kicked out because of proposing a "whole stock transfer" of Council housing which many residents didnt want. However, this was the only option put forward by the Government at the time, so ironiclly the Lib Dems got kicked out because of a national Labour policy at the time:loopy:

So is it possible for a moderator to change the poll?

Originally posted by goose
So is it possible for a moderator to change the poll?
Yes, but like I said, I cannot imagine Max even thinking about that. I may not agree with his political persuasion, but Max wouldn't do that - and it would be spotted!

im not voting cant be bothered all wate of time and effort, though some other small groups like bnp and green party could make a shock win

Originally posted by Tony
Yes, but like I said, I cannot imagine Max even thinking about that. I may not agree with his political persuasion, but Max wouldn't do that - and it would be spotted!

Thats worrying. Hes already tried to mislead people over voting not sure i trust him not to change the poll.

Moderators shouldnt be able to change the poll anyway :rant:

Originally posted by goose
I have had bad experiences with Labour members in the past.
:
Such as? Can you share them with us? Mentioning no names... yet.

Sorry, I thought everyone was aware of my political allegiance. I'm actually an activist and chair of one of the wards plus I'm standing as paper candidate in an unwinnable ward. I've divulged most, if not all, of this on previous posts and wasn't trying to hide anything.

As to altering a poll, what exactly would be my interest in doing that? I wouldn't even if it could make a difference to anyone or anything.

I manage to compatmentalise my life into politics, hobbies, modding, work, family, etc., as I thought everybody could. It should be obvious to everyone when I am posting as me or as a mod. I used to preceed all my mod posts by the word mod but some people couldn't handle this.:loopy:

I can't win, it seems.

Originally posted by goose
Thats worrying. Hes already tried to mislead people over voting not sure i trust him not to change the poll. I have had bad experiences with Labour members in the past.

Moderators shouldnt be able to change the poll anyway :rant:

PS I have never tried to mislead anyone over anything. My view is that the tories and lib dems in Sheffield are indistinguishable. Additionally, several wards in this city are marginal only because of the Green vote. You tell me if that's misleading or my opinion.

Such as? Can you share them with us? Mentioning no names... yet.

Nothing hugley exciting.

Originally posted by Tony
Minimal??? What's minimal about an increase of 20% in your personal tax bill? Or to look at it another way, a 20% cut in your personal income... and spending power!

Anyway, that's never going to happen because that's at a national level, and this is a local and European election.
well, it wouldn't actually be such a rise would it? as that rate doesnt come into play till after you earn 100k (imo top rates should be higher at a lower earning level, and anyone earning that much should pay much more). Also many top earners are renowned for their tax dodging scams - such as setting up businesses thru which to channel pay, and then only paying the pathetic 19% corporation tax. For those on really high earnings, the ones who made a mint out of the Thatcher cuts, this rise would make virtually no difference to them.

As to the libs introducing labour polices - yes it is/was a labour policy, and the libs introduced after saying they wouldn't. in office they were as indistinguishable from the tories as labour are. Were one stop shops rreally a lib innovation? I've seen loads of parties make the same claim.

Originally posted by goose
Just to clarify, there isnt a ward in Sheffield where you should vote greens to keep Labour out.:nono:

The only tactical vote would be to vote Lib Dem instead of Tory/Green if you want to keep Labour out at all costs!

Total Rubbish.

If everyone who want labour out votes Green, it will have the same effect. The same could be said of any party.

Don't be fooled into thinking that the Lib Dems play the game any differently to the other two mainstream parties - you can't fit a blue Rizla between any of them on anything other than policy detail. Motivated, as all parties are, by a genuine sincerity at the grassroots level, the Lib Dems are just as craven and duplicitous when it comes to selling promises for votes.

Vote for the party you support. That way the rest of us get a clear picture.

Trying to exhort people into voting tactically is to attempt VOTE THEFT on the uninformed.

Tactical voting is voting for a party you don't want.

Tactical voting is a lie invented by mainstream parties who would rather there weren't any fringe parties splitting their precious votes.

A tactical vote is useful for someone else, but not you, it is a bought vote, and should be considered suspect.

If you support a fringe party like the greens (or the BNP for that matter) then you owe it to your party to vote for them, otherwise the mainstream parties are never going to lose any votes between them and your party will die.

Originally posted by max


PS I have never tried to mislead anyone over anything. My view is that the tories and lib dems in Sheffield are indistinguishable. Additionally, several wards in this city are marginal only because of the Green vote. You tell me if that's misleading or my opinion. [/B]

The only marginal wards are between Labour and Lib Dem, so telling people to vote Green if they support Lib Dems is misleading.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme


If you support a fringe party like the greens (or the BNP for that matter) then you owe it to your party to vote for them, otherwise the mainstream parties are never going to lose any votes between them and your party will die.

I agree that tactical voting is voting for a party you dont want, however if you hate Labour and dont want them to gain control for the Council voting Tory/Green is a waste of time.

Sorry but those are the cold hard facts.

Originally posted by commie pig
Were one stop shops rreally a lib innovation? I've seen loads of parties make the same claim. [/B]

Categorically YES

i disagree with goose's "fact"

i think the greens could get seats this time and these will be wards where labour and lib dems are hopeful

in other words a green win would be worrying for both labour and lib dems

it will be close in sheffield

Originally posted by easyrider
i disagree with goose's "fact"

i think the greens could get seats this time and these will be wards where labour and lib dems are hopeful

in other words a green win would be worrying for both labour and lib dems

it will be close in sheffield

I agree it is possible for the greens to win a seat. However, i am correct in saying that if a green supporter would rather have Labour not running the Council then a Lib Dem instead of a green in their area maybe prefrable.

Originally posted by goose
Categorically YES
fair enough. they are, too an extent, a useful move. but only a cosmetic one as it went alongisde the massive cuts in the service - just as labour try to prettify dole offices even as they slash the service, its all surface.

Originally posted by commie pig
fair enough. they are, too an extent, a useful move. but only a cosmetic one as it went alongisde the massive cuts in the service - just as labour try to prettify dole offices even as they slash the service, its all surface.

Local councillors do actually want to improve the services in Sheffield, regardless of political persuasion. They are normal local people.

Its not all surface, if you actually used the services you would know the massive improvment Howden Haouse has made. The Lib Dems want to implement a fresh and modern approach to the Council, i believe Labour are too stuck in their ways to want real change.

Here is the very best one that the Lib Dems have proposed that would affect me - an 'account manger' for businesses that would be a single point of contact to help youwade through the morass of Council departments and regulations.

A top idea! :thumbsup:

I wonder if Labour will hijack it? :nono:

Originally posted by goose
I agree that tactical voting is voting for a party you dont want, however if you hate Labour and dont want them to gain control for the Council voting Tory/Green is a waste of time.

Sorry but those are the cold hard facts.

Ok, voting Tory is a waste of time - you got me on that one :) but...

Voting Green is only a waste of time if all you want to do is kick labour councillors out for the sins of Tony Blair.

Well fine - it is your vote for you to give to a party whose ideologies or policies you have already rejected.

But votes are the oxygen of any party - and starving your own party of votes to spite another seems very, very foolish.

If you really did want to vote tactically to punish Blair, I would say that the euro election would be the place to do it, rather than a council election where the effects of the ballot are much, much closer to home.

If you want to dump on labour from a great height because of Iraq etc. and you don't mind tactical voting then you should know about http://www.dumpblair.co.uk.

Not my cup of tea, but a useful source of information nevertheless :D

I agree with you on this point. Maybe thsi could be argued for the greens. However, i still stick by my point. Maybe it depends on how much you hate a particular party and what you would be willing to do to make sure they dont get elected!

Originally posted by goose
I agree with you on this point. Maybe thsi could be argued for the greens. However, i still stick by my point. Maybe it depends on how much you hate a particular party and what you would be willing to do to make sure they dont get elected!

And I take your point.

Mine is really to impress upon any Greens reading this, that no matter what you read, a vote for the Green party is not a wasted vote.

As a Green voter you already know you are not going to see mass electoral successes any time soon :) , but you will never see them at all :( if you vote tactically :mad: for one of the 'big' three be it local national or european.

It doesn't matter which of them you squander your vote on - the differences are minimal, with the only visible gap being between the lib dems and the moronic inferno of the well whipped parliamentary tory and labour party.

I would hate to think of Green voters, the swords to ploughshares people, using votes as weapons.

And I can only hope that this poll is representative if skewed by self selection, because that means the greens will have made a significant increase in their overall vote in the city, even if the number of councillors elected is low to non-existent.

And I am permitting myself a little chortle because it is really, really nice to see the Tories languishing at the bottom of the barrel beneath even the UKIP, BNP, Natural Law Party, MRLP etc.... even if it is only a self selecting totally unrepresentative and unaudited poll.

The place I was brought up in was overrun with tories everywhere - a right health risk in fact. It really does seem that in some senses Sheffield has sorted tory infestation very well (apart from a few notoriously stubborn bolt holes).

Originally posted by Phanerothyme

It doesn't matter which of them you squander your vote on - the differences are minimal, with the only visible gap being between the lib dems and the moronic inferno of the well whipped parliamentary tory and labour party.



The Lib Dems are the greenest of the three national parties. Differences are not minimal, its just that the policies have to be pragmatic to a degree, unlike the greens.

Take a look at the website to see the latest press release on environmental issues: -

http://www.libdems.org.uk/

The Greens are not really a sensible choice because they have no set of policies and no ideology behind them. If you are an environmentalist then i would strongly advise you to vote Lib Dem.

Political Rant over!.......for now

I see that the greens are ahead, but i dont know why.

Why are people voting green? Do you think this will be replicated in the local elections?

It's a choice of two.

Some shop steward or busy body who stands for a part which is responsible for the deaths of over 10,000 innocent iraqis

Or the Lib Dems

Viva Menzies Campbell

Originally posted by goose
The Lib Dems are the greenest of the three national parties. Differences are not minimal, its just that the policies have to be pragmatic to a degree, unlike the greens.

Take a look at the website to see the latest press release on environmental issues: -

http://www.libdems.org.uk/

The Greens are not really a sensible choice because they have no set of policies and no ideology behind them. If you are an environmentalist then i would strongly advise you to vote Lib Dem.

Political Rant over!.......for now

...

I see that the greens are ahead, but i dont know why.

Why are people voting green? Do you think this will be replicated in the local elections?


Ok the Lib Dems still reject unilateral nuclear disarmament. So no progress there and no votes from me either. Same with drug reform, particularly the removal of all prohibitions on organisms and the ouright rejection of patentable genetic material.

There are more scientifically literate people in the lib dems, sure, but their policy does not reflect this.

The reason the greens are leading this poll, is because more people are 'voting' green. Just like an election. Also perhaps there is a larger green constituency amongst the computer literate and the forum contributors, than say amongst the uncritical readers of the Sheffield Star.

If this result is mirrored in the council elections I shall be very surprised, but I will not discount the possibility of a mass defection from all parties to the Greens.

Your investigation of Green party policy and ideology would appear to be cursory at best.

What is the lib dem view on non-hierarchical power structures?

Too late though, I have already voted.

edit - looks like the tory vote has actually stalled completely.

Originally posted by goose
I see that the greens are ahead, but i dont know why.

Why are people voting green? Do you think this will be replicated in the local elections?

Perhaps because they don't want to risk long-term environmental damage for short-term finanical and political gain

I note that there are 10 votes for Other - please state and nobody has stated. Now, as far as I'm aware, there are few 'other' parties standing but 2 of them are UKIP and BNP. Is this what people mean by other? If so, why have they not entered into the debate? Or are there other others which I have missed?

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
Your investigation of Green party policy and ideology would appear to be cursory at best.

What is the lib dem view on non-hierarchical power structures?

Too late though, I have already voted.

edit - looks like the tory vote has actually stalled completely. [/B]

I too am pleased to see that the vote for the Tories has stalled, i believe they are a party in serious decline :thumbsup: .

The Lib Dems have a full set of policy papers that covers the ideology behind Liberal Democracy and specific policies if you go to the website you will be able to find what your looking for: -

http://www.libdems.org.uk/

My problem with the Greens is that they advocate many things i agree with but provide no solutions. They are an extream party unlike the moderate Lib Dems who want environmental improvement but will work with the "system" to achieve it.

We really should have had all the other parties in the poll too rather than just being lumped together, but it's probably a bit too late now. Shame really - I would have been interested in how UKIP are doing. They seem to be picking up a lot of votes from the Tories according to today's polls. No support for them in this thread though.

Hi,everyone ,thought I woul'd participate in the discusion,Iwas not going to discus poitics but the temptation is too great.
Suffice to say i'm sure some people will know who I am voting for?
It's just ashame that the OTHER parties were not included in the poll.

bnp fed up being teated like a lepper in my own country

Originally posted by max
I note that there are 10 votes for Other - please state and nobody has stated. Now, as far as I'm aware, there are few 'other' parties standing but 2 of them are UKIP and BNP. Is this what people mean by other? If so, why have they not entered into the debate? Or are there other others which I have missed?
I think I said I was voting Democratic Socialist Alliance, annd steelcitybab said she was voting English Democrat (who i dont think are actually standing in the locals).

I'd like to think the other 8 were all voting DSA too :)

but rather suspect they're not daring to say 'bnp'

Originally posted by brooksy
bnp fed up being teated like a lepper in my own country
mmm cos people like me (of dirty irish stock) and Abdul are stealing all the wealth aint we? Not the bosses who are actually sacking people, paying themselves absurd bonuses for appalling services, selling off our homes etc etc?

the white working-class (which i'm assuming you are) have been treated disgracefully by all the main parties, who couldn't give a monkeys cuss about us really - but voting for the BNP will do absolutely nothing to stop that, tis simply a means of scapegoating other people who are also just as mussed over by 'our' governments.

I'd venture that some people are voting for green not in protest to other parties but because they agree with what that party represents.

Originally posted by max
Sorry, I thought everyone was aware of my political allegiance. I'm actually an activist and chair of one of the wards plus I'm standing as paper candidate in an unwinnable ward. I've divulged most, if not all, of this on previous posts and wasn't trying to hide anything.



In this case are you sure that you should be touting for votes for your Party via this forum? The RPA is strict about this type of thing and all parties should be formally invited to challenge you and join in the discussion to put their opinions.

It shouldn't be too difficult to work out which of the wards you are standing in should it?

I don't think that Max has ever made a secret of it Mo, and this is probably a quite legitimate place to 'tout'. Very modern and in line with advancement in political thinking about access to the political and governmental systems.

It's a shame that the other registered members like Richard Caborn MP (0 posts) and Richard Allan MP (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=420) (10 posts) don't get the chance to get more involved in the Forum

As to which Ward Max is standing in... let's just say that I didn't vote for him :P

Max is standing in Fulwood

Originally posted by Mo
In this case are you sure that you should be touting for votes for your Party via this forum? The RPA is strict about this type of thing and all parties should be formally invited to challenge you and join in the discussion to put their opinions.

It shouldn't be too difficult to work out which of the wards you are standing in should it?

I didn't think I was touting for votes and if that's the impression I gave, apologies.

There are other candidates for other parties on here who haven't declared themselves, though.

Thanks for your support Tony, even though it is half hearted.

Well it's not really half hearted Max, I just don't agree with a lot of your political views, but hey you know that ! :P.

I totally support the process and genuinely admire your commitment. :thumbsup:

I would be interested to know who the other undeclared candidates on here are - for the sake of balance.

In answer to your question who are the other candidates,well I am one,but I guess you knew that.

Yep Roy, you're one of them. Thank's for confiming. We think that there may be another member who is standing in Walkley.

If you're out there, why not say hello?

Nice to see:

Greens 1st
Tories 4th

Remember that ALL the council seats are up this time. Surely its not possible that the policy poor greens could gain power??? Surely not.

Maybe phan has multiple IPs and usernames? ;)

NB. Geoff this is actually a *light hearted* comment - I'm sure phan doesn't really have multiple usernames.

Originally posted by max
I didn't think I was touting for votes and if that's the impression I gave, apologies.

There are other candidates for other parties on here who haven't declared themselves, though.

Thanks for your support Tony, even though it is half hearted.

For the record I have seen no indication to suggest you have been touting for votes.

Ive already voted........It was for Edwina Currie!!

(thank god she dint win)

It’s a very pleasant surprise to see the greens so far ahead. Obviously this poll cannot make any claims to being fair or accurate but still there is always the hope it just might be!!!

Shame their wasn’t a breakdown of the ‘other parties’, it would have been interesting to see if the English democrats promise of national holiday on St Georges day, coupled with Killroy’s UKIP antics has effected the British Nazi Parties vote, but I think a no platform policy is more important.

Also surprised at the lack of fuss made about the fact you have put respect in that shameful category of obscurity that is ‘other’, are their really no SWP on this forum?

Anyway this time tomorrow night the need for speculation will be over! ……. And the legal challenges against postal voting will begin.

Originally posted by brooksy
bnp fed up being teated like a lepper in my own country

that must be a wounder! Never had that problem myself, nor has anyone i know. Are you in the minority? Do you actually have leprosy; is that the problem?

Originally posted by Disco_Cat Also surprised at the lack of fuss made about the fact you have put respect in that shameful category of obscurity that is ‘other’, are their really no SWP on this forum? [/B]
It says local elections tho - and Respect aint standing in them, for some daft reason.

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
Shame their wasn’t a breakdown of the ‘other parties’, it would have been interesting to see if the English democrats promise of national holiday on St Georges day, coupled with Killroy’s UKIP antics has effected the British Nazi Parties vote, but I think a no platform policy is more important.

I think a "No Platform" policy is deeply patronising - if you own the platform in question then obviously no problem.

However if you are suggesting that there should be an official no-platform policy for any party, that extends to media and public meeting, then you should ask yourself:

"who decides the no platform policy and on what basis"

If political rhetoric and debate stays within the law, then that serves the democratic process. If it does not, then the law may be upheld.

"No Platform" is a very good way of silencing dissent, and has been used with good effect in many places.

Given the current polling on here imho it looks like Lib Dems could take control of the council, assuming this can happen this time around?

And I think the Gov will get a wake up call from the Euro elections

Well today is election day, and it really looks like the Lib-Dems are going to get it.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
I think a "No Platform" policy is deeply patronising - if you own the platform in question then obviously no problem.

However if you are suggesting that there should be an official no-platform policy for any party, that extends to media and public meeting, then you should ask yourself:

"who decides the no platform policy and on what basis"

If political rhetoric and debate stays within the law, then that serves the democratic process. If it does not, then the law may be upheld.

"No Platform" is a very good way of silencing dissent, and has been used with good effect in many places.

I don’t believe in giving racists a platform with which they will attempt to instigate a race war in this country. This has nothing to do with politics, as the BNP are not a political party no matter how good the deal was they got on trading in their braces and Dc Martins for a job lot of suits.

Think of it like this, a law was passed this year to protect children from the danger of paedophiles. Basically it means any adult doing anything sexual with a child is breaking the law. A downside to this law however is that potentially two children kissing could be deemed to be breaking the law.

Now I’ve heard many politicians debating this law and saying parts of it should be changed to make sure we do not criminalize children, for harmless experimentation. This is democracy, Labour tries to make a law, and the conservatives and Lib Dems can debate the merits of it.

But how would you feel if free speech and democratic rights were extended to paedophiles, making them free to create a political party with which to lobby against a law such as this.

You may say this sounds like a crazy scare story but in the Netherlands their ultra liberal attitudes means that there is a legal party of Paedophiles, abusing democracy and liberty in this way, to further their sick ways.

I think we would all happily instigate a no policy platform toward such a party in this country, because calling your crime a political belief does not make it legal or tolerable.

In just the same way the BNP use perfectly legitimate debates around issues such as asylum, purely as a means to an end, and that end is a race war resulting in a white only Britain. By denying the BNP the opportunity to associate themselves with democratic politicians we are denying them the opportunity to hijack democracy and use it for their terrible aims.

I just read a criticism of Gandhi saying that the holocaust is proof that peaceful action is useless in the twentieth century, but the holocaust could have been prevented by an action as simple and peaceful as crossing a ballot paper, if only enough people had rejected fascism.

The BNP may only be a ‘other’ party now. But they have much bigger plans, plans I hope everyone hear opposes, even those who have voted BNP in this election because they are sick of feeling like a “Leper”. No platform policies are decided upon democratically and therefore work as part of the democratic process not against it.

As much as you seem to object to the principles of no platform now, with the gift of hindsight would you have supported a no platform policy against the National Socialists?

Disco cat you are living on another planet to everyone else,we are NOT nazi or facist or racist.
We are a legitamate political perty and as such have a right to have our voice heard,whether you agree with us or not.
I KNOW that we speak for a sizeable percentage of the electorate ,so who are to say we must be denied the democratic right of free speach.
But no matter because it is your kind of attitude that is driving more and more people to our party,you see the british beleive in fair play unlike some people.

Sorry about the spelling but the intolerance of some people makes my blood boil.

I had hoped you might answer the question I posed, but you actually made a lot of interesting points, which I have tried to answer as best I can.

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
I don?t believe in giving racists a platform with which they will attempt to instigate a race war in this country. This has nothing to do with politics, as the BNP are not a political party no matter how good the deal was they got on trading in their braces and Dc Martins for a job lot of suits.
If the BNP stay within the law in their conduct and their election material, then I have no problem at all in allowing them the same access to the public media as any other party of their size and stature.

If they do not, they should accept the consequences, as we all do when we break the law (and are detected).

I would far rather have them assert their specious reasoning in public where there is a fair chance of open criticism (not to mention being caught red handed in the crime of inciting racial hatred, violence, disorder, etc. etc) rather than pressing upon them a need for secrecy and closed meetings where they only preach to the converted. Then no-one in the public arena will really ever see what messages they are indoctrinating people with. Keep it all out in the open.

If what you are effectively proposing with a no platform policy is a list of banned political parties. Fair enough.

In fact there already is one, passed in March 2000. Its schedule 2 of the Terrorism Act 2000. Blunkett can proscribe the BNP at any time if they satisfy the requirements laid out in the act. No sweat - here's his number: 0114 273 5987 Give him a ring - see what he says.(mods:this information is in the public domain - it is his constituency number)
Think of it like this, a law was passed this year to protect children from the danger of paedophiles. Basically it means any adult doing anything sexual with a child is breaking the law. A downside to this law however is that potentially two children kissing could be deemed to be breaking the law.

Now I?ve heard many politicians debating this law and saying parts of it should be changed to make sure we do not criminalize children, for harmless experimentation. This is democracy, Labour tries to make a law, and the conservatives and Lib Dems can debate the merits of it.

But how would you feel if free speech and democratic rights were extended to paedophiles, making them free to create a political party with which to lobby against a law such as this.
What so you mean that the Tories, Labour Lib dems, and the British Party of Child Abusers and Paedophiles could all discuss the legislation in a relatively calm and open manner. You bet. They'd have to get elected of course; minor obstacle though.

Likewise, if there was a proposed ban on drinking, I bet the HoC would see quite a few more lobbyists and maybe even the "Imaginary British Beer Wine and Spirits Quaffing Party" garnering a lot of support and votes in defence of their right to get smashed, soon to be made illegal.

They (paedophiles) already have the freedom to organize politically anyway, so as you can imagine, I have no objection providing they abide by the laws that bind their behaviour and material - or accept the consequences of not doing so. The fact that "The Imaginary British Paedophilia and Child Abusers Party" does not exist is not because they would be illegal, but because I doubt they'd garner much support...

Besides, what would their economic policy be? Defence? Europe? I have never used this one before, but here goes - :rolleyes:
You may say this sounds like a crazy scare story but in the Netherlands their ultra liberal attitudes means that there is a legal party of Paedophiles, abusing democracy and liberty in this way, to further their sick ways.
I think you mean the NVSH? not a political party, more of an umbrella organisation that promotes understanding and investigation of all matters of sex and sexual health and behaviour. They lobby parliament on a lot of things. The NVSH do not have 'sick ways' - to my knowledge - although I prepare to stand corrected.

Why are you talking about paedophiles? Is it some attempt to demonise the BNP by simplistic association? I don't support the BNP, for a lot of reasons, but mainly because their ideas show an alarming lack of clear thinking.

I could say the same about drawing the issue of paedophilia into a discussion about no platform policies. There isn't an Imaginary British Paedophile party yet, so lets just try and deal with things that 'exist' - that way we can at least know what we are talking about.
I think we would all happily instigate a no policy platform toward such a party in this country, because calling your crime a political belief does not make it legal or tolerable.
My crime? I assume you mean their crime? Their crime is still illegal (self evidently), but organizing politically is not a crime, so providing that is what they do then I have no problem whatsoever with that. If they commit a crime and are brought to justice, then they will pay the appropriate penalty in law. That is as it should be, what are you suggesting should change? Anyway let's leave the Imaginary Party of British Paedophiles, Necrophiles, Zoophiles and Coprophiliacs (IBoBPNZ&C) for now shall we? Yes? Good :cool:
In just the same way the BNP use perfectly legitimate debates around issues such as asylum, purely as a means to an end, and that end is a race war resulting in a white only Britain.
Whoa, "In just the same way"? The same way as whom? Not the IPoBPNZ&C again? The BNP use a blend of common anxieties and hot button issues to further their supposed aims of achieving a white Britain.

Well:

a) in a few thousand years the whole human population will be brownish chocolate anyway - with a few in-bred whiteys left - so forget that whole thing boys (you good old white supremacists), you've lost already hehehehe. :cool: :cool:

b) all opposition parties play on anxieties and hot button issues - it's just their aims are slightly more, er, well thought out (in that they are thought out, rather than spilled or vented or spewed out)

If,one day, you find yourself in a minority of anti-racists in a sea of racist voters, then sorry, but that is democracy. the best message (and the biggest wallet) wins

remember this - it is not yet a crime to 'be' a racist - i.e. harbour racist thoughts and ideologies. Nor should it be. There are several crimes that are defined in terms of being racially motivated, but these are actions - whether it is inciting racial or religious hatred, or something as straightforward as racially motivated assault.

By denying the BNP the opportunity to associate themselves with democratic politicians we are denying them the opportunity to hijack democracy and use it for their terrible aims.
Making the BNP sound like SPECTRE isn't going to convince anyone. If you represent the best opposition to the BNP, then we may well see them in no10 by 2020 (j/k)

By allowing political organizations the freedom to campaign on an even footing is essential to a healthy democracy. After that it is largely question of party donations and membership that determines how successfully the party can campaign. The result of that campaign depends on the electorate.

If they break the law, there will be a lot of very attentive (and rightly so) self styled nazi hunters (and I mean that affectionately, as I have known a couple) who will capture and report every last misdemeanour.

Denying them the right to particpate equally in the process will certainly change the nature of their organization, garnerning support through martyrdom and the oft used ruse of 'if the government want to stop us so badly we must be doing something right'...

I should imagine there is little that excites a BNP apparachik more than the prospect of a brotherhood with secret meetings, initiation rites etc. Everybody on the inside really feels a part of something, no-one on the outside has a clue...

I just read a criticism of Gandhi saying that the holocaust is proof that peaceful action is useless in the twentieth century, but the holocaust could have been prevented by an action as simple and peaceful as crossing a ballot paper, if only enough people had rejected fascism.
Precisely "....been prevented by an action as simple and peaceful as crossing a ballot paper..." How can that ballot mean anything if parties on it have been supressed under an official "no platform policy".

Either they are an illegal organization and proscribed as such, or they have the freedom to campaign for their organization within the bounds of the law. Simple.
The BNP may only be a ?other? party now. But they have much bigger plans, plans I hope everyone hear opposes, even those who have voted BNP in this election because they are sick of feeling like a ?Leper?. No platform policies are decided upon democratically and therefore work as part of the democratic process not against it.
Indeed, and as we do not have any proscription of the BNP in British Law, can we all get on with discussing their risible aims and objectives with the BNP themsleves please, rather than just agreeing with one another about how bad they are? Great :cool:
As much as you seem to object to the principles of no platform now, with the gift of hindsight would you have supported a no platform policy against the National Socialists? No, I would not, but interestingly the National Socialists imposed precisely such a policy on the SDP in 1933. What does that tell you about no platform policies?

Originally posted by mikey
And I think the Gov will get a wake up call from the Euro elections


I hope not. Look at the damage they've done...the money they've squandered whilst they were napping. Imagine the chaos they could cause if wide awake :rolleyes:

Originally posted by royjames
I KNOW that we speak for a sizeable percentage of the electorate ...


The problem seems to be, Roy, that you know that, your party knows that, but no-one else does.

You won't be surprised to hear that I am very happy that the BNP gained one council seat, but speaking personally, rather than politically, I wish it had been you.

At least then we could have a dialogue with an actual BNP councillor, rather than just another rank and file party member.

Especially since they also lost all the other seats they had.

So who is the BNPs only councillor at the moment?

You must be in touch with BNP HQ. Any chance of getting Nick Griffin or John Edwardes to post their ananlysis of their dismal results in this forum? Or are they just too embarassed to support their local candidate in an open and public forum?

Any clues as to why your vote dropped through the floor?

Originally posted by royjames
Disco cat you are living on another planet to everyone else,we are NOT nazi or facist or racist.
even if that were true (and i dont buy it for a minuite, a detailed look at your politics shows you clearly to be an old style corporatist fascist party, more in the mold of mussolini than hitler pehaps, but that is the only difference) your party still contains an awful lot of nazi's fascists and racists doesnt it? scum like mark collett, who loves giving nazi salutes. then theres the south african white nationalist over here helping you at the moment, you know, the guy who arranged the murder of chris hani? how about your liverpool candidates who were recently arrested for their role in gang warfare, and was it murder again? your party is riddled with racists and it is quite pathetic to deny it.

some of you may have taken off the bovver boots and put on shirts and ties, but they're still in the back of the cupboard waiting for the opportunity to come out and start using your fists and feet again.

Of course I wasn’t trying associate the BNP with paedophiles, what I was trying to equate is the point that people seem to have no problem justifying liberty and democracy to the BNP on the grounds of free speech but how would people feel about applying that ruling universally.

When the BNP complain that a no platform policy by a union is undemocratic, would they still be ultra liberals in this circumstance. I think Nonce Watch answers that question however.

Ultimately it’s very nice to have debates like this but there are people like the BNP seeking to exploit democracy and liberal debate in the hope of destroying it.

And I do respect the ultra liberal line that we should tolerate all views in the knowledge that ultimately the greater humanity will prevail, and to a degree I even believe in that. But what I also realize is that when we allow Racists freedoms of expression that destroys people’s lives. I was at an NUS conference years ago were a student raised the argument that freedom of speech meant we should allow the National Front representation in NUS, that night a black student walking home past a National Front meeting wasn’t hospitalized and she was told to go back were she came from. This to me really caused a shock. It was fine for us to sit around raising issue about the merits of this and that while in reality, an issue as simple as a pub hosting a meeting of fascists had left someone close to death for no other reason then the colour of her skin

I have friends today who are on the BNP hit list Redwatch, and I know that when we offer the BNP the dignity of labeling them political status they drag up with them the sort of people who happily firebomb a teacher’s car just because they signed a petition against the BNP.

Personally I value protecting the lives of the people I love and care about over giving Fascists rights. And who knows if there hadn’t been so many people like me wanting to push a no platform line at the Battle for Cable Street, maybe Mosley would have been enjoying respectable and legal electoral success just as Hitler was. But I hate what if??? History, leave that to Marvel.

But your posts have raised a lot of questions and I look forward to talking about this in the future.

Be interesting to see if the BNP do not made the gains they have put so much effort into making it causes a split between the BNP membership. People like Maureen Stowe and Roy James who are not Nazi against the hardcore vanguard of the BNP like the Combat 18 members, who I’m sure Roy James will not dispute are Nazi, and while Mr Griffin shows of a Jewsih Lady candidate and tries his hardest to push for Black membership, they still rely upon these thugs for their security.


The only way the BNP can get anymore sucess is dropping people like this but will BNP members like Luke Smith, mentioned earlier, who would rather live in Nazi Germany then mdoern day Britian be happy action such as this?

Roy James if your not a Nazi get out of the BNP and join a party that wasn't founded by a man who revels in posing in Nazi uniform.

(Combat 18? 1=A 8=H , A.H. Adolf Hitler)

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
...
But your posts have raised a lot of questions

Yes. Here are some more things to think about. But before that, I refer you to my last post (remembering it was you who brought up the national socialists)

the National Socialists imposed precisely such a [no platform] policy on the SDP in 1933. What does that tell you about no platform policies?



When you say a no platform policy for the BNP I am taking you at your word. A union may happily elect to implement a no platform policy, that is their right within the schedules of the organisation. I have no problem with that.

BUT

If you wish to disallow them the right to public assembly and public campaigning funds, then you are suggesting the deliberate supression of a political organisation by the state.

Yes, I know the BNP are far worse than than Enoch Powell ,Oswald Moseley, Stalin and Beelzebub all rolled into one, but nevertheless, you must consider the ramifications of a policy like this.

Extremism seeks not direct success but to radicalise the incumbent regime into ultra repressive tactics. (such as banning them or making their public assembly illegal)

These tactics invariably end up with the regime looking like ogres and the extremists looking like martyrs, ever more justified in their violent resistance to state persecution. Increased repression of the BNP will lead to a growth in membership, not a decrease.

By having to increase repressive measures against the BNP as a political organization, the government gradually develops more and more authoritarian attitudes, bouyed by the unshakeable conviction they are right.

Then, conveniently, they 'discover' they can use the "no platform legislation" against other inconvenient political groupings. Suddenly there is no need to elect the BNP, because we have a totalitarian government all of our own. (Velvet glove sure, but iron fist inside)

And don't think for a moment that we are somehow invulnerable to a slide into totalitarianism. And not at the hands of the BNP either, but at our own request because we must repress disagreeable and destabilising forces.

Get the BNP out in the open where we can keep an eye on them. If they break the law, do your civil duty.

Can you make a short coherent argument for making the BNP a proscribed organization, banned from public assembly and other public fora such as TV, Radio and the Press?

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
Personally I value protecting the lives of the people I love and care about over giving Fascists rights. And who knows if there hadn’t been so many people like me wanting to push a no platform line at the Battle for Cable Street, maybe Mosley would have been enjoying respectable and legal electoral success just as Hitler was.

I'm sorry I missed that completely the first time round. I guess I must have blanked it out as unreasonably egocentric delusions backed by specious reasoning and comparing the incomparable.

Have you read any BNP literature? They really don't have the intellectual wherewithal to even comprehend Mosely and the British Union of Fascists.

You said: "if there hadn't been so many people like me wanting to push a no platform line at the battle for cable street"

Well firstly you conveniently ignore the fact that the BUF went on to quite some electoral success in the east end, not in spite of, but because of cable street.

BUt if there is one thing that irritates more than the BNP it is this sort of mock heroism by association ("if there hadn't been so many people like me...")

What do you have in common with any of the revolutionary communists that pelted the police with bricks, overturned vehicles and made burning barricades? Your NUS card?

I also opposed the nonsensical no platform policy for fascists in area and national NUS conferences - not one member of the steering committee or the National Exec, could even define the term fascist let alone explain why they should be denied a platform when revolutionary communists, zionists and anarchists are not.

This sort of woolly thinking is, in my opinion, more of a danger thank the BNP:

"Personally I value protecting the lives of the people I love and care about over giving Fascists rights."

Let me translate that for you

"Personally I value protecting the lives of the people I love and care about over denying civil and political liberties to everyone including the people I love and care about"

The anti fascist movement is extremely complex. And while events like Cable Street serve their purpose Fascism will only ever be confronted effectively by tackling the issue that cause people to turn toward extreme parties such as the BNP. Thankfully it seems Labour are recognizing that they cannot take there heartland voters for granted and are starting to focus upon the issues and the people they should. I’m not by any definition a Revolutionary Communist but I have in common the belief that in a situation such as Cable Street people should take action against Fascism, and that people should be able to address issues that effect them such as housing without people like Mosley exploiting the situation to enact a holocaust.

I think you misinterpreted by what I mean by a non-platform policy. I don’t think I mentioned the government enforcing it. Instead I believe it is the role chiefly of groups such as unions and the media. The fact is that when the BBC broadcast the BNPs attack against Islam the other week it caused a great deal of distress and harassment to a lot of people, and while the BBC has a duty to address issues such as Immigration I am disappointed that they helped to spread ideas and attitudes that were disgusting and offensive.

My argument against the BNP is still the same. They see appearances on Question Time, the election of BNP student activist to union positions as small steps to another far more sinister end. It is up to us to recognize the truth about the BNP and make sure that end is never achieved. We don’t live in a Liberal Utopia and it is fair and correct for us to take actions such as no platform, to try and limit their achievements.

What I suggest to the large numbers of BNP members and councilors who are non racist is dump people like Luke Smith who have used you to raise the profile of their racist party and are now the reason why you are not enjoying the electoral success you could have, without the Nazi element. UKIP are a nationalist party desperate to strengthen their role in this country by being seen as local and not just a one-issue party. If you are not Racist people, wouldn’t you be happier as members of party not run by dangerous men with race hate convictions?

How much easier would it be for you to address the issues you care about if you could campaign and work without the stigma attached to the BNP?

Sorry one more thing

The BNP literature is legally checked over to avoid such “taboos” as anti-Semitism, so relying upon the CPS to control them is very hard. But there is a marked correlation between legal BNP activity in areas and racial and political assaults. So while the BNP can broadcast legally on the BBC this helps increase the attacks I am so keen to see stopped. Redwatch is a perfect example. Legally it has nothing to do with the BNP but the pictures on it are taken by BNP members of people who oppose the BNP.

Originally posted by royjames
Sorry about the spelling but the intolerance of some people makes my blood boil.

Hohohoho!! Surely not!!

This is the funniest thing I have heard in months!!! :loopy:

Well apart from more people deserting the 'party' than flocking to it hehehehehe :thumbsup: :D :rolleyes: :P :cool: :loopy:

Sorry about the spelling but the intolerance of some people makes my blood boil.

I can't believe you just said that. Me too.