http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5079470.stm

The young lady in the above news item considers herself discrimiated against because she has covered herself in tatoos.
If she had been born with this disfigurement, then OK, but she has done this done this to herself deliberatly.
This must be a form of mental instability, or least a serious inability to make correct judgement, do you not think?
It amazes me how she got the job in the first place.
A travelling fairground would welcome her with open arms though, I would have thought! :D

I am very surprised that no-one has yet replied to this post, so i will comment to give my opinion and push the message back up top.

I can see both side of the story on this one,....i myself have a couple of Tattoos and do try to keep them covered in the office....unfortunatley one is on my foot and therefore cannot always be concealed especially in the summer time, i would think it pretty ridiculous if i was told i had to wear socks and shoes, but i'm not sure it would happen. Lots of people have tattoos on there feet or ankles these days.

However this girl is pretty much covered with them so it must be difficult to cover them all...I dont understand what she said about nearly fainting from the heat, no-one told her she had to wear a cardigen, she could have covered up with a thin cotton long selved shirt....:rolleyes:

It would be nice to hear some arguements on both sides.....

I do think artisans comments are to harsh though!!

I think her employer appears to be bending over backwards to accomodate her. Silly girl.

I think her employer is getting scared cause words like discrimination are being used!

This girl is still only 18 after all, her judgement is slightly warped.

... says the 25-year-old temp

You read this at all?

This must be a form of mental instability, or least a serious inability to make correct judgement, do you not think?


No. I think you have the problem.

since when has having tattoos interfered with a persons capability of doing the job?
some wigs ive seen have been way more offensive looking than any tattoo.
i find it much more offensive and scarey being served in a shop by those asian women that wear the full get up with just their eyes showing , but no one would dare to tell these women to do something about their apearance.

total twaddle :rant:

I think it is up to her if she wishes to decorate her body with body art.

They are neither rude or offensive, she is not in a public facing role even if she was this is all about people preconceived ideas and prejudices not her tatoos. They don't effect her abilty to do the job.

i find it much more offensive and scarey being served in a shop by those asian women that wear the full get up with just their eyes showing

Please send details of the shop as I have never seen this.

As for the idiot girl that this thread is about, I wouldn't have given her a job in the first place. If people do this kind of thing to themselves then you have to question how they would behave in other cirumstances. For example, would they use the BBC web site to have a go at their employers?

As for the idiot girl that this thread is about
Why is she an idiot?

ken get a grip you muppet..
ill give you details when you explain what right you have calling someone with tattoos an idiot.
who would want to give you a job anyway cos with how rude you are on a public forum how does anyone know just how rude you can be in other circumstances. :suspect:

You read this at all?

Whoops:confused:

ill give you details when you explain what right you have calling someone with tattoos an idiot.

I have as much right to call her an idiot as anyone else has.

Now can we have the details of where there are women serving in a shop with only their eyes showing?

In this particular case I think any reasonable person can see that she has some kind of problem, possibly with self harming. It is one thing to cover yourself in tatoos, but it is quite another to then tell the world that your employer (who you then name) is discriminating against you. It seem here employers are tolerant people and just ask that she covers up, but insead of this she decides to talk to the BBC! Anyone that might have been daft enough to give her a job may now also see that she is quite happy to debate internal company business on the BBC web site and that should be enough to put them off completely.

... I think any reasonable person can see that she has some kind of problem, possibly with self harming.
There is no evidence to link self-harming and tattoos. Thats just silly.

I have as much right to call her an idiot as anyone else has.

.
there must be one hell of a lot of idiots in sheffield (all over the world for that matter) keeping us and all the other tattoo studios in business.

so is it acceptable for me to call you an idiot just cos i dont agree with your dress sense/hair style or anything else about your person ??

IDIOT IDIOT IDIOT !

IIn this particular case I think any reasonable person can see that she has some kind of problem, possibly with self harming. .


That is a very ill informed thing to say, self harming is a very serious subject and I don't want to take this thread off track but tatoos and self harm are very different things.

That is a very ill informed thing to say, self harming is a very serious subject and I don't want to take this thread off track but tatoos and self harm are very different things.

Well she is harming herself and her prospects, what else can you call it?

Well she is harming herself and her prospects, what else can you call it?
narrow minded pillock :rant:

Self-harming stems from a depression of sorts, a form of control. Maybe she just wants some tattoos.

Secondly, she only hurts her "prospects" when small minded employers are prejudiced to her lifestyle. Her tattoos don't hurt their business so its nothing to do with them, end of.

there must be one hell of a lot of idiots in sheffield (all over the world for that matter) keeping us and all the other tattoo studios in business.

so is it acceptable for me to call you an idiot just cos i dont agree with your dress sense/hair style or anything else about your person ??

IDIOT IDIOT IDIOT !


You are welcome to your opinion, but can you back up something which you seemed to be saying is a fact. So where is the shop where you get served by a woman with everything covered except her eyes and which you find more disturbing?

You can't call me an idiot for my dress sense since you have no idea what that is, nor whether I am a man or a woman, or even if I am sat here but naked typing this, in fact I could even be covered head to toe in tattoos for all you know. The idiot that this thread is about chose to publish her picture with a rant about how she was discriminated against. Having put her head above the parapet, she got a response.

narrow minded pillock :rant:

You could be right ...


i find it much more offensive and scarey being served in a shop by those asian women that wear the full get up with just their eyes showing


Oops! Let yourself down there, pot and kettle spring to mind!

Her tattoos don't hurt their business so its nothing to do with them, end of.

Well actually she is demonstrating quite nicely that her tatoos do hurt her employers business (or would if it wasn't some council rather than a real business). Not only is she the sort of person to have these tatoos, but she is also the sort of person who embarrasses her employer by taking her petty greivances out in public. Since the grievances are about the tatoos, then they have hurt the business.

I think it is right not to let her show her body off with all those tattoo's, i have a chinese symbol on my shoulder and i am not allowed to wear anything that shows it off for work, which i think is right, i mean you dont wanna walk in somewhere and get served by someone covered in tattoos!! its puts you off, just like with loads of pericings!

I have as much right to call her an idiot as anyone else has.

Now can we have the details of where there are women serving in a shop with only their eyes showing?

In this particular case I think any reasonable person can see that she has some kind of problem, possibly with self harming. It is one thing to cover yourself in tatoos, but it is quite another to then tell the world that your employer (who you then name) is discriminating against you. It seem here employers are tolerant people and just ask that she covers up, but insead of this she decides to talk to the BBC! Anyone that might have been daft enough to give her a job may now also see that she is quite happy to debate internal company business on the BBC web site and that should be enough to put them off completely.

Ken for a while now i have thought you are a bit of a arguementative, old fashioned so and so,...but now i realise that you are in fact a complete and utter - ignorant - self righteous - narrow minded FOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How dare you say that this girl "must have some kind of problem, possible with self harm", do you live in this world or are you on some other planet!??!!

I am completely gobsmacked that someone can even think in this way, so i suppose you think that people who are pierced also have Self Harming problems??

You are welcome to your opinion, but can you back up something which you seemed to be saying is a fact. So where is the shop where you get served by a woman with everything covered except her eyes and which you find more disturbing?

You can't call me an idiot for my dress sense since you have no idea what that is, nor whether I am a man or a woman, or even if I am sat here but naked typing this, in fact I could even be covered head to toe in tattoos for all you know. The idiot that this thread is about chose to publish her picture with a rant about how she was discriminated against. Having put her head above the parapet, she got a response.
this is true ken i have no idea what you dress like or what ever but im damn sure i dont like it and anyway you have got to be a moron to have veiws like yours. Chris is spot on with what he/she posted it is no ones business but the persons as to how they choose to decorate their body and it deffinatly is not doing the employer any harm. oh BTW the shop was wilkinsons in darnall ( my shop used to bang across so i was in there on a regular basis.

im sure people would rather be served or use a business where a person has tattoos but is a nice polite helpful person than a non tattood ignorant so and so. so if tattoos are offensive enough to be given the sack for then alot emplyers deff need to turf out all there rude dirty/smelly employers

so i suppose you think that people who are pierced also have Self Harming problems??




Yes I do. Why else would someone stick a needle through their tongue or other sensitive part of their anatomy? They are either doing it for themselves, because they have some problem with their self image, or to please a man, which is another problem they have.

I certainly am many of the things you accuse me of being, but I would draw your attention to the fact that my opinion is based on this girl making a fuss about hard done by she is in public. She is the one asking everyone to support her because she is discriminated against. I think she is actually an idiot for coming out into the open in this way when she she is clearly in the wrong. The tattoos may be hideous but they are rather incidental to my argument.

this is true ken i have no idea what you dress like or what ever but im damn sure i dont like it and anyway you have got to be a moron to have veiws like yours.

What is the descriptive word you would use for someone who is dicturbed by being served by a woman who is covered head to foot with only her eyes showing? Are they also a moron? Or is it perhaps Ok for you to have narrow minded views but contrary views make the other person a moron?

Yes I do. Why else would someone stick a needle through their tongue or other sensitive part of their anatomy? They are either doing it for themselves, because they have some problem with their self image, or to please a man, which is another problem they have.

I certainly am many of the things you accuse me of being, but I would draw your attention to the fact that my opinion is based on this girl making a fuss about hard done by she is in public. She is the one asking everyone to support her because she is discriminated against. I think she is actually an idiot for coming out into the open in this way when she she is clearly in the wrong. The tattoos may be hideous but they are rather incidental to my argument.

My reaction to you KenH is because you seem to think that people with tattoos or piercings have problems with self harm....

If you are now saying part of the reason you think this is because she made a fuss about this in public is even worse!!

Please explain!?!

surely someones ability to do a job depends on their ability to do a job and not what they look like.duh!!!

when i ask for assistance in a shop or a council department or anywhere it's the quality of the help that matters not the individuals dress sense, colour of skin(!!!), jewelry etc.

after reading this thread can only think somefolks are biggoted, shallow ***** - get a life! talk to people: its content not packaging that matters

What is the descriptive word you would use for someone who is dicturbed by being served by a woman who is covered head to foot with only her eyes showing? Are they also a moron? Or is it perhaps Ok for you to have narrow minded views but contrary views make the other person a moron?
yep call me a moron too if it makes ya feel all warm n smug like but i wasnt the one calling someone an idiot for how they choose to live. yes i did say i find them abit scarey and offensive but thats just how it makes me feel i wouldnt dream of calling them idiots for how they want to dress after all it is their choice.. just like its that lasses choice to have tattoos.

im Pagan and the amount of times ive been called a devil worshipper or people have assumed i must go out and kill chickens and drink their blood etc is un countable .. but the one thing that is true is that the people saying this are the deranged sad no life narrow minded t*sspots.

when people decide to live their life outside the box and do things a little different you can guarentee the scared little sheep that wish they had some guts , start bleeting.
go n find ya self a life matey maybe ya wont find it so nessercery (sp?) to pick n poke at others. :hihi:

... she is demonstrating quite nicely that her tatoos do hurt her employers business.
How do you work that out? She deals with the public on the phone.

"I don't deal with the public, but I have to cover up in the office. I think it's kind of ridiculous," she said.

http://www.mind.org.uk/Information/Booklets/Understanding/Understanding+self-harm.htm

The above website discusses self harm and quite clearly having a tattoo is not self harm its a form of self-expression.

i mean you dont wanna walk in somewhere and get served by someone covered in tattoos!!

I wouldn't be bothered, and I find it very strange that anyone else would, if you wouldn't want to be served by someone with tattoos how about someone with a very bad toupe, or a shaved head, or terrible dress sense, or some kind of deformity or dissability ?

What does it matter what the person who serves you looks like ?

I mean you dont wanna walk in somewhere and get served by someone covered in tattoos!! its puts you off, just like with loads of pericings!

Nope it doesn't put me off at all.

What on earth are you on about self harm for? Are you on the wrong thread?

If she wanted a job where having tattoos would be a problem, she should have either not had them, or thought of changing her career.

Sorry, but it is people's choice to have tattoos and where they have them (apart from someone I know who's mates got him drunk and had hello sailor written on his ass) and they should know full well that jobs DO discriminate.

What on earth are you on about self harm for? Are you on the wrong thread?



I posted the link because KenH made a link in this woman's case between self harming and lots of tattoos which I strongly dispute.

It's quite common for companies to have policies regarding tatoo's and their display.
Some people obviously like them, but many others may not. Presumably this person has contact with co-workers if not with the public, so IMO it's reasonable for her to be asked to cover the tatoo's.
If she didn't want to have to do that, she should have got a job somewhere where it wasn't a problem.

so is it ok for someone who has a strong dislike for wigs or make up or mustaches/beards to ask their co-workers/employees to remove the offending articles :confused:

If it's reasonable to expect her to cover-up would it be reasonable for me to complain that I don't like to look at cheap shoes and get everyone in my office to wear Gucci loafers ?

Yeah I meant KenH. Stupid thing for him to say. I was once told to shave my facial hair off. I refused and quit the job. I shaved all of my hair off a week later. It's the principle. Even if I argued with them and got to keep it, I wouldn't want to work for them.

The same with this lass n her tats. Why does she want to work somewhere like that?

Very true, if she doesn't meet the public then what is all this fuss about!!??

xxx

If it's reasonable to expect her to cover-up would it be reasonable for me to complain that I don't like to look at cheap shoes and get everyone in my office to wear Gucci loafers ?

No it wouldn't. Hugo Boss loafers are far more atractive to look at.

My reaction to you KenH is because you seem to think that people with tattoos or piercings have problems with self harm....

If you are now saying part of the reason you think this is because she made a fuss about this in public is even worse!!

Please explain!?!

I wouldn't give such a person a job and suspect that a council will have given her a job because of some misguided idea that they have to be seen to be fair. To be accurate, I doubt I would have given her a job unless she had something special about her which made her a far better candidate. It would seem to me that someone who is prepared to disfigure themselves in this way, which don't forget is irreversible, when they are a fairly young woman, isn't really the sort of person you would want to give any responsibility to. Personnally I would be quite happy being served in a shop by someone with tattoos, but that doesn't mean I would employ them in other roles. In this case we know three things about her. She has permanently disfigured herself, she is a temp at 25, and she disputes things with her employer via the BBC. I wouldn't give the sort of person who would disfigure themselves in this way a job because I would judge them to be irresponsible which the second two facts tend to bear out.

I wouldn't give such a person a job and suspect that a council will have given her a job because of some misguided idea that they have to be seen to be fair. To be accurate, I doubt I would have given her a job unless she had something special about her which made her a far better candidate. It would seem to me that someone who is prepared to disfigure themselves in this way, which don't forget is irreversible, when they are a fairly young woman, isn't really the sort of person you would want to give any responsibility to. Personnally I would be quite happy being served in a shop by someone with tattoos, but that doesn't mean I would employ them in other roles. In this case we know three things about her. She has permanently disfigured herself, she is a temp at 25, and she disputes things with her employer via the BBC. I wouldn't give the sort of person who would disfigure themselves in this way a job because I would judge them to be irresponsible which the second two facts tend to bear out.

So your saying because she's young and has tattoos you wouldn't give her any responsibilities!!!??? That is the most stupidest thing i have ever heard.

xxx

So your saying because she's young and has tattoos you wouldn't give her any responsibilities!!!??? That is the most stupidest thing i have ever heard.

xxx

Yeah well i think KenH must be the stupidest person on here too!!!!

So your saying because she's young and has tattoos you wouldn't give her any responsibilities!!!??? That is the most stupidest thing i have ever heard.

xxx

No I'm not. I am saying that someone who shows such a lack of judgement as the person shown in the photo isn't responsible. I regularly come across men who have managed to get to management positions with very inappropriate tattoos and who now regret having them done many years before. They are generally on their arms and can be covered at interviews. But imagine someone coming for an interview with "cut here" written across their throat for all to see, how would this affect your opinion of them? Would they find it easier or harder to get a job? Women who have tatoos may be daft, but nobody every need know if they keep them in places where they aren't seen. In this case the idiot girl had covered herself in them at a young age and then wanted to wear skimpy clothes.

I wouldn't give the sort of person who would disfigure themselves in this way a job because I would judge them to be irresponsible which the second two facts tend to bear out.

There lies the problem, you have prejudged her.

The fact that she is temping at 25 and has permanently "disfigured" your words not mine) her body deem her to be irresponsible.

What are your preconceived ideas of what a "responsible" person would look like ?

Women who have tatoos may be daft, .
male chauvinist pig !!

No I'm not. I am saying that someone who shows such a lack of judgement as the person shown in the photo isn't responsible. I regularly come across men who have managed to get to management positions with very inappropriate tattoos and who now regret having them done many years before. They are generally on their arms and can be covered at interviews. But imagine someone coming for an interview with "cut here" written across their throat for all to see, how would this affect your opinion of them? Would they find it easier or harder to get a job? Women who have tatoos may be daft, but nobody every need know if they keep them in places where they aren't seen. In this case the idiot girl had covered herself in them at a young age and then wanted to wear skimpy clothes.

Well this girl clearly has a passion for tattoos and i certainly dont call a vest skimpy clothing KenH, her job has nothing to do with her appearance at the end of the day.

xxxx

I regularly come across men who have managed to get to management positions with very inappropriate tattoos

So all is not lost, she can still aspire to the lofty hights of *deep breath* management !

male chauvinist pig !!

OK then "people who have tattoos may be daft". Is that better?

Well this girl clearly has a passion for tattoos and i certainly dont call a vest skimpy clothing KenH, her job has nothing to do with her appearance at the end of the day.

xxxx

Well she says it hasn't, but that doesn't really hold water in my view. Why would her employer care if she was covered or not, if she doesn't meet customers? It is probably the case that other people close to her meet the customers and she would be in the room.

I have walked out of a sandwhich shop once, because I couldn't eat after the woman who was going to serve me with tattoos all over her hands had made a sandwhich for me.

I know it is strange but I just couldn't have stomached it after she touched what I was supposed to eat with her tattoos. Fortunately I saw her before I ordered anything.

At least if you have some woman on the other end of the phone who is covered with tattooes the customers don't know. Although she could always get a job in a circus, I would never give her employment looking like that, she might scare the other staff, or at least create a difficult atmosphere in the office.

OK then "people who have tattoos may be daft". Is that better?

No. How can you be so sure that people who have tattoos are daft? Its simply a way of expression, like having your hair dyed, or having surgery. You shouldn't judge people by there appearance, looks are so deceiving.

xxx

If someone had cut here tattooed on their throat and came to me for a job, I'd give it them. Just my kind of humour.

In fact, next time I advertise, it will be in the job description. It'll also say: Do not apply if you are some jumped up misery who judges people specifically on their own personal taste in appearance. No job for you then KenH.

No. How can you be so sure that people who have tattoos are daft? Its simply a way of expression, like having your hair dyed, or having surgery. You shouldn't judge people by there appearance, looks are so deceiving.

xxx
heehee yeah i wonder if ken would tell some lass that had her boobs done that no way she can have a job cos shes so obviously a nutter a self harmer that cant be trusted to meet the public let alone his customers :hihi: :hihi:

heehee yeah i wonder if ken would tell some lass that had her boobs done that no way she can have a job cos shes so obviously a nutter a self harmer that cant be trusted to meet the public let alone his customers :hihi: :hihi:

Ha ha ha :D :hihi: :banana:

xxx

Although she could always get a job in a circus, I would never give her employment looking like that, she might scare the other staff, or at least create a difficult atmosphere in the office.

Sorry, what is scary about tattoos? A difficult atmosphere? Are you real?

I have walked out of a sandwhich shop once, because I couldn't eat after the woman who was going to serve me with tattoos all over her hands had made a sandwhich for me.

I know it is strange but I just couldn't have stomached it after she touched what I was supposed to eat with her tattoos. Fortunately I saw her before I ordered anything.

At least if you have some woman on the other end of the phone who is covered with tattooes the customers don't know. Although she could always get a job in a circus, I would never give her employment looking like that, she might scare the other staff, or at least create a difficult atmosphere in the office.
Muddycoffee, had this woman only just had her tattoos done? were they scabby or infected or something? cos if they were perfectly healed why did they put you off? is it the same if you see freckles or a mole on someones hand?
its not very far saying she could always get a job in a circus, i mean the poor lass might be scared of lions or to scared of hight to walk the tightrope... unless of course you were calling her a freak :|

There lies the problem, you have prejudged her.

The fact that she is temping at 25 and has permanently "disfigured" your words not mine) her body deem her to be irresponsible.

What are your preconceived ideas of what a "responsible" person would look like ?

I don't have any preconcieved ideas of what a responsible person would look like. There might be any number of things that put me off at an interview having asked searching questions. Having disfigures yourself is simply easy to spot but they may well then turn out to have many plus points such as having grown out of it and regretting what they did. Alternativelly they may simply not have grown out of it and argue with me that they are right and I am wrong (preferably without calling me a tw*t) and this would also also be a plus point. Arguing with me via the BBC probably isn't a plus point!

What if, god forbid, you took someone on to find out later that they had tattoos ?

I don't have any preconcieved ideas of what a responsible person would look like. There might be any number of things that put me off at an interview having asked searching questions. Having disfigures yourself is simply easy to spot but they may well then turn out to have many plus points such as having grown out of it and regretting what they did. Alternativelly they may simply not have grown out of it and argue with me that they are right and I am wrong (preferably without calling me a tw*t) and this would also also be a plus point. Arguing with me via the BBC probably isn't a plus point!

They aren't arguing with you through the BBC, the BBC are doing a story on this subject because tattoos have become more and more commonplace, it's a matter of interest as to how employers have adapted to it. It's called current affairs.

heehee yeah i wonder if ken would tell some lass that had her boobs done that no way she can have a job cos shes so obviously a nutter a self harmer that cant be trusted to meet the public let alone his customers :hihi: :hihi:

I wouldn't be rude enough to tell her that she didn't get the job becasue she had a boob job. However, I would wonder what other flaws they have in their character if they did this to themslelves because of some current fashion in boob size.

Your a nutter. :P

I think her employer is getting scared cause words like discrimination are being used!

This girl is still only 18 after all, her judgement is slightly warped.

whos only 18 - the girl in the story is 20 something, 21 when she was first tattooed.

I don't have any preconcieved ideas of what a responsible person would look like. There might be any number of things that put me off at an interview having asked searching questions. Having disfigures yourself is simply easy to spot but they may well then turn out to have many plus points such as having grown out of it and regretting what they did. Alternativelly they may simply not have grown out of it and argue with me that they are right and I am wrong (preferably without calling me a tw*t) and this would also also be a plus point. Arguing with me via the BBC probably isn't a plus point!

I didnt argue with you whether you are right or wrong, i know there is no point in that,...i just gave my opinion of you!

I wouldn't be rude enough to tell her that she didn't get the job becasue she had a boob job. However, I would wonder what other flaws they have in their character if they did this to themslelves because of some current fashion in boob size.
oh ! but you are rude enough to call people who have tattoos "daft & stupid & self harmers & imature" etc ?
so having big tittys is likely to soften you up is it and make you more polite :hihi:

whos only 18 - the girl in the story is 20 something, 21 when she was first tattooed.

Yes, there is a "whoops" post in the middle of this theard somewhere

what if other employess decided to sue for mental anxiety caused by her tattoos?

i'm not against her tat's, but i know some who are.
my wife wouldnt employ people with facial piercings - purely because people and therefore can be offended by them.

Ken, artisan, the article states quite clearly that this young womans only direct contact with the public is by telephone. In which case, surely the only people her tattoos can possibly offend are her co-workers/bosses. As the article clearly states these tattoos are neither sexually explicit or racist, so I'd suggest that its their problem, not hers.

Yes, there is a "whoops" post in the middle of this theard somewhere


i didnt realise there was 5 other pages when i posted.lol
there must be a cure for being premature.

I don't have any preconcieved ideas of what a responsible person would look like. Having disfigures yourself is simply easy to spot but they may well then turn out to have many plus points such as having grown out of it and regretting what they did.

seems to me, Ken, that you have clearly stated two of your preconceived ideas of what a responsible person would look like -
1) no body piercings ; 2) no tattoos

I think your idea that tattoos or piercings somehow disfigure yourself highlights your whole attitude to this debate

you say disfigure, someone else says decorate - it's all totally subjective

your idea that someone with tattoos or piercings has got some mental state to grow out of, implying that your mental state of disliking these body modifications is somehow more grown up or mature, is rather patronising and short sighted

I find it incredibly insulting that tattoos and piercings have been linked to self harm on this thread, obviously by someone who does not understand the situation that people who self harm are in.

I have many friends who self harm and do not have tattoos and piercings, I also have friends with tattoos and piercings who do not self harm. To lump the two together is misguided and quite frankly scary that this sort of thinking still exists.

Morrigan x

seems to me, Ken, that you have clearly stated two of your preconceived ideas of what a responsible person would look like -
1) no body piercings ; 2) no tattoos

Sorry, just to add:

3) no fake breasts 4) No one who has had trouble with self harming.

what if other employess decided to sue for mental anxiety caused by her tattoos?

i'm not against her tat's, but i know some who are.
my wife wouldnt employ people with facial piercings - purely because people and therefore can be offended by them.

mental anxiety caused by tattoos?

for flip's sake!

some people can be spun out by anything

it's possible to get psychiatric therapy to get over this kind of handicap!

Sorry, just to add:

3) no fake breasts 4) No one who has had trouble with self harming.

lol :hihi:

what if other employess decided to sue for mental anxiety caused by her tattoos?


I'd like to see them explain how someone having a tattoo near them caused them mental anxiety.

Sorry, just to add:

3) no fake breasts 4) No one who has had trouble with self harming.
ooo ya beat me to that :hihi:
and what about willy elargments?? would a prospective new employee need to do some sort of old fashioned coff n drop type thing to prove he is sound minded and responsible enough to speak to customers on the phone or be allowed to mingle with the other workers in the works canteen :o

I'd like to see them explain how someone having a tattoo near them caused them mental anxiety.

yeah, i'd like a front row seat for that one, with a big bag of popcorn thrown in

I find it incredibly insulting that tattoos and piercings have been linked to self harm on this thread, obviously by someone who does not understand the situation that people who self harm are in.

I have many friends who self harm and do not have tattoos and piercings, I also have friends with tattoos and piercings who do not self harm. To lump the two together is misguided and quite frankly scary that this sort of thinking still exists.

Morrigan x

You have a pre-conceived idea of one type of self-harm. If someone harms themself then it must be self-harm. Sticking metal through sensitive parts of your anatomy is "harm" and they do it to them "self". QED I think.

yeah, i'd like a front row seat for that one, with a big bag of popcorn thrown in


i'm sure they wouldnt be able to prove it even if it existed.
but what would company policy be if the majority of staff were offended by her tats (hpothetical question)?

women complain over topless calendars- which can't harm them.


(my daughter has tats so i have no axe to grind)

Sticking metal through sensitive parts of your anatomy is "harm" and they do it to them "self". QED I think.

It hurts, but it doesn't "harm" them, quite the opposite.

What is more likely to cause "harm" in the pychological way that you are implying is being wrongly judged for the way you look.

You have a pre-conceived idea of one type of self-harm. If someone harms themself then it must be self-harm. Sticking metal through sensitive parts of your anatomy is "harm" and they do it to them "self". QED I think.

Do you realise that 80% (ok, that's a complete stab in the dark guess) of women have their ears pierced?

KenH, you opened my eyes. I never realised my nan was a self-harmer. Or the queen.

You have a pre-conceived idea of one type of self-harm. If someone harms themself then it must be self-harm. Sticking metal through sensitive parts of your anatomy is "harm" and they do it to them "self". QED I think.

Self harm is when you harm yourself for whatever reason. A tattoo artist who has no feelings towards you and doesn't know you from Adam would not tattoo someone if they thought that they were doing it for self harm reasons. It would be like a nurse killing a patient if they asked them too.

xxx

i'm sure they wouldnt be able to prove it even if it existed.
but what would company policy be if the majority of staff were offended by her tats (hpothetical question)?

women complain over topless calendars- which can't harm them.


(my daughter has tats so i have no axe to grind)
another hypothetical question.. ive been waltzing about alover woodhouse with my tattoos on show lately ( will i be run out of town? can folks get a petition up to have me evicted and banned from the coop will i be gettin sued from fainting masses of nausiated villagers? ) :hihi: :hihi:

i know you have no axe to grind, just it really tickles me this subject :)

Do you realise that 80% (ok, that's a complete stab in the dark guess) of women have their ears pierced?

KenH, you opened my eyes. I never realised my nan was a self-harmer. Or the queen.

"harm" is relative.... what you consider to be "harm" such as tattoos and piercings I consider to be attractive and art (in the case of tattoos)

I used to have my lip pierced. i took it out when I got my job, but I am now having a large tattoo across the top of my back, which I have part designed myself.

This is not "harm", in fact its one fo the most beautiful designs I've seen (but then again I'm biased)

"harm" is relative.... what you consider to be "harm" such as tattoos and piercings I consider to be attractive and art (in the case of tattoos)

I used to have my lip pierced. i took it out when I got my job, but I am now having a large tattoo across the top of my back, which I have part designed myself.

This is not "harm", in fact its one fo the most beautiful designs I've seen (but then again I'm biased)

I love my tattoos too, i've got a lovely tribal design on my lower back, and i had a really pretty bold star on my foot the other week.

xxx

Or the queen.
I wouldn't trust her with any responsibility.

ooo ya beat me to that :hihi:
and what about willy elargments?? would a prospective new employee need to do some sort of old fashioned coff n drop type thing to prove he is sound minded and responsible enough to speak to customers on the phone or be allowed to mingle with the other workers in the works canteen :o

My experience is that you can spot someone with a willy enlargement (and therefore take this into account at an interview) because they tend to leave it in the car park.

My experience is that you can spot someone with a willy enlargement (and therefore take this into account at an interview) because they tend to leave it in the car park.

You judge by car type too, an interview at your place must be pretty tough, unless you're Mr/Mrs Ordinary and you turn up on the bus.

another hypothetical question.. ive been waltzing about alover woodhouse with my tattoos on show lately ( will i be run out of town? can folks get a petition up to have me evicted and banned from the coop will i be gettin sued from fainting masses of nausiated villagers? ) :hihi: :hihi:

i know you have no axe to grind, just it really tickles me this subject :)


i wonder who it was that put me of my pastie last week.lol

although i cant understand why people would be anti her tattoos, i just know that it is the opinions of some who don't like to see them.

saw a lady with a fantastic "wisteria bush" type tattoo which went up her back & branched across her shoulders.i was tempted to ask to see the roots but didn't have the guts.

is there a market in photographing tattooed people,i'm looking for some material to worl on.?

My experience is that you can spot someone with a willy enlargement (and therefore take this into account at an interview) because they tend to leave it in the car park.

got to admit, I don't particularly like the way you think, or the comments you have made, but that was actually quite amusing...

i think kenh must mend clocks for a living.

Bus is for poor people. They're out aswell.

I have just been reading the online version of a magazine called skin deep.

www.skindeep.co.uk

There are some amazing people in there and some amazing art work.

I've been considering having a particular tattoo done in the centre of my back, right in between my shoulderblades for a long time - hunab ku - the placement has almost as much significance as the design

it would hardly ever be seen, and i'd like it to be there, but i'd also like other people to see it, so have been considering having it done on my left inner forearm

we'll see

I love my tattoos too, i've got a lovely tribal design on my lower back, and i had a really pretty bold star on my foot the other week.

xxx

I know nobody's gonna want to see it, but when I get it finished, Im posting pictures!!!

i wonder who it was that put me of my pastie last week.lol

although i cant understand why people would be anti her tattoos, i just know that it is the opinions of some who don't like to see them.

saw a lady with a fantastic "wisteria bush" type tattoo which went up her back & branched across her shoulders.i was tempted to ask to see the roots but didn't have the guts.

is there a market in photographing tattooed people,i'm looking for some material to worl on.?
i hope you gave it to the old man asleep on the bench next to the bustop then and dint just chuck it in the bin :P

if you really do fancy photoing tattood folks ya want to get ya self to the derby convention next month you will see some absolutly amazing people and they will be more than willing to let you tattoo them ( ill have to get back to ya on the date tho cos i cant remember offhand :thumbsup: )

got to admit, I don't particularly like the way you think, or the comments you have made, but that was actually quite amusing...

You have no idea about the way I think, you only have the comments I make with which to form an opinion about what I might really think. Dangerous ground and every bit as bad as assuming that you know someone because of what they look like.

i think kenh must mend clocks for a living.

No I run shop where we sell instruments of the devil and books about satanism (and tattoos).

You have no idea about the way I think, you only have the comments I make with which to form an opinion about what I might really think. Dangerous ground and every bit as bad as assuming that you know someone because of what they look like.
so by that can we assume you are a fibber on the forum then? and say things you dont actually mean ? :o

No I run shop where we sell instruments of the devil and books about satanism (and tattoos).

What are instruments of the devil ?

No I run shop where we sell instruments of the devil and books about satanism (and tattoos).
well well well..... are you setting up in competition with me ken :hihi:

What are instruments of the devil ?
Kens opinions :hihi: :hihi:

I've been considering having a particular tattoo done in the centre of my back, right in between my shoulderblades for a long time - hunab ku - the placement has almost as much significance as the design

it would hardly ever be seen, and i'd like it to be there, but i'd also like other people to see it, so have been considering having it done on my left inner forearm

we'll see

There is a technical term for the type and location of a tattoo having a significance - mumbo jumbo.

There is a technical term for the type and location of a tattoo having a significance - mumbo jumbo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunab_Ku


http://altreligion.about.com/library/glossary/symbols/bldefshunab.htm


Hunab Ku is a religious symbol to some not mumbo jumbo.

http://altreligion.about.com/library/glossary/symbols/bldefshunab.htm


Hunab Ku is a religious symbol to some not mumbo jumbo.

Thanks for the link, but linking to what is efectively mumbojumbo.com doesn't really strengthen your case does it? Do yourself a favour and don't get something permanent like this which you may live to regret. You can just get it painted on and then you can wash it off when you move onto next years fashionalble pseudo religion.

No I run shop where we sell instruments of the devil

i think Ken means accordians

There is a technical term for the type and location of a tattoo having a significance - mumbo jumbo.

there's a technical term for users of the term "mumbo jumbo"

ignorant

What are instruments of the devil ?

The Stylophone ?

http://x3a.xanga.com/b5a87a650913313770971/b9882957.jpg

Thanks for the link, but linking to what is efectively mumbojumbo.com doesn't really strengthen your case does it? Do yourself a favour and don't get something permanent like this which you may live to regret. You can just get it painted on and then you can wash it off when you move onto next years fashionalble pseudo religion.

lol - you're quite a comedian Ken, making comments about things you know nothing about - and you're on the live to regret tip again

c'mon everyone, hurry up and catch up with Ken's advanced way of thinking

You can just get it painted on and then you can wash it off when you move onto next years fashionalble pseudo religion.

Or buy a nice tweed suit, they never go out of fashion.

The Stylophone ?

http://x3a.xanga.com/b5a87a650913313770971/b9882957.jpg
i sold a didgeridoo to a forum member, it cost him his soul mwaaahaaahaaaa :hihi:

i sold a didgeridoo to a forum member, it cost him his soul mwaaahaaahaaaa :hihi:

was the purchaser Ken by any chance?

:loopy:

You have a pre-conceived idea of one type of self-harm. If someone harms themself then it must be self-harm. Sticking metal through sensitive parts of your anatomy is "harm" and they do it to them "self". QED I think.

There's an established medical definition for self-harm, and this isn't it. It seems to me that you really don't know much about it, but are opinionated enough to think that you do.

As for the tattooed girl in question, it wouldn't bother me if I was the employer. I'd judge her on her qualifications and suitability, and if these surpassed those of the other applicants then she'd get the job. There's a conformist mentality within British society which states that deviations from the "norm" are not to be trusted. It starts at secondary school, and many people never really grow out of it.

I'm reminded of a story a year or so back, where a guy working in a call centre was reprimanded for having green hair. They must have thought that it would seep through the phonelines and intimidate the people at the other end. :o

was the purchaser Ken by any chance?

:loopy:
nope the God of twaddle got their before me and sold him a muppets brain in exchange for his soul :hihi: :hihi:

Thanks for the link, but linking to what is efectively mumbojumbo.com doesn't really strengthen your case does it? Do yourself a favour and don't get something permanent like this which you may live to regret. You can just get it painted on and then you can wash it off when you move onto next years fashionalble pseudo religion.

I don't have a case to strengthen. I have not said I am looking to get a tattoo. However whether I do, don't would or would not is a matter of personal preference.

I don't feel it has any bearing on how I do my job.

I don't feel it has any bearing on how I do my job.

No I don't either. I was just pointing out that this is effectively irreversible. People tend to grow out of daft alternative religions but you would be stuck with it.

No I don't either. I was just pointing out that this is effectively irreversible. People tend to grow out of daft alternative religions but you would be stuck with it.

I consider myself to be a Christian, I don't feel this is daft or alternative. I dont think I'll grow out of it either :)

Ages ago when I was a young lad I did a bit of work for an Alarm Installation firm. One of their sales reps had SKINS across his forehead. Strange thing is he always did pretty well with the sales.

Any one covering themselves in coloured ink must have some kind of complex with themselves. OK as a temporary thing, but long term?
What happens when they get bored with the patterns they have drawn on themselves, they cant wash them off.
They are doomed for ever to have that same pattern following them, a terrifying prospect if you ask me :loopy:

What happens when they get bored with the patterns they have drawn on themselves, they cant wash them off.
They are doomed for ever to have that same pattern following them, a terrifying prospect if you ask me :loopy:
if they have drawn them on their selves YES they can wash them off.. if how ever they have been to a tattoo studio and had them tattood on.. now thats a different story :P

Don has made an interesting point on another, completely unrelated (honest), thread. Why do people dress up at an interview? If things like tattoos don't matter then why doesn't everyone just turn up in any old clothes or maybe in the altogether? Could it be that the interviewee wants to make a good impression and understands that what they look like matters but then thinks they can do whatever they like when they get the job?

nope the God of twaddle got their before me and sold him a muppets brain in exchange for his soul :hihi: :hihi:

ROTFLMAO

:hihi: :love: :gag:

Don has made an interesting point on another, completely unrelated (honest), thread. Why do people dress up at an interview? If things like tattoos don't matter then why doesn't everyone just turn up in any old clothes or maybe in the altogether? Could it be that the interviewee wants to make a good impression and understands that what they look like matters but then thinks they can do whatever they like when they get the job?
it also means they dont want people turning up in last nights going out gear smelling of cigs stale beer B.O or puke :P

No I don't either. I was just pointing out that this is effectively irreversible. People tend to grow out of daft alternative religions but you would be stuck with it.

by daft alternative religions i take it you mean christianity?

by daft alternative religions i take it you mean christianity?
heeheeeee :hihi:
im sure you are spot on there pingpang ;)

by daft alternative religions i take it you mean christianity?

No, the post that I was referring to was a link to some alternative pseudo religious stuff. To save you the trouble of looking, here is the quote from that link:-

"This symbol, reminiscent of a yin-yang, is the emblem of the Mayan God Hunab Ku, the supreme creator God of the Maya. It represents the solar calendar, balanced forces, and perfection."

I think we can all agree that this is the very definition of the expression "mumbo jumbo".

Don has made an interesting point on another, completely unrelated (honest), thread. Why do people dress up at an interview? If things like tattoos don't matter then why doesn't everyone just turn up in any old clothes or maybe in the altogether? Could it be that the interviewee wants to make a good impression and understands that what they look like matters but then thinks they can do whatever they like when they get the job?

last interview i went to, i wore a suit, ironed shirt & tie - i got the position, yet it does not involve ever wearing such ridiculous attire on a day to day basis -

the only times i ever wear this symbolic ritual clothing are weddings, funerals & interviews, as these are considered by most people as slightly more formal occasions than day to day life, and in our culture the unfortunate old crusty stale idea still lingers that this is what a person wears on formal occasions

i guess one of the reasons i wear this getup on these occasions is to outwardly demonstrate respect for the occasion to the people present who still adhere to the outmoded idea that we should all appear to stick within certain boundaries that i have erased long ago

No, the post that I was referring to was a link to some alternative pseudo religious stuff. To save you the trouble of looking, here is the quote from that link:-

"This symbol, reminiscent of a yin-yang, is the emblem of the Mayan God Hunab Ku, the supreme creator God of the Maya. It represents the solar calendar, balanced forces, and perfection."

I think we can all agree that this is the very definition of the expression "mumbo jumbo".

no, i doubt that very much

i think the majority of people here would agree that you are talking about stuff you know nowt about, gob flapping in the wind

also the quote was from wikipedia, which is not the best place to get info from

personally i've never heard of hunab ku referred to as a god

to my understanding it represents the centre of the galaxy

placement in the centre of the back is to centre it upon the heart centre, the energy centre which is the centre of our entire being

this represents the occult understanding that the external universe is a representation of our inner self

No, the post that I was referring to was a link to some alternative pseudo religious stuff. To save you the trouble of looking, here is the quote from that link:-

"This symbol, reminiscent of a yin-yang, is the emblem of the Mayan God Hunab Ku, the supreme creator God of the Maya. It represents the solar calendar, balanced forces, and perfection."

I think we can all agree that this is the very definition of the expression "mumbo jumbo".

I posted the links in question, of course they my be mumbo jumbo to you, I was just trying show that one persons mumbo jumbo, forms part of someone elses belief system.

Never mind.

I posted the links in question, of course they my be mumbo jumbo to you, I was just trying show that one persons mumbo jumbo, forms part of someone elses belief system.

Never mind.

I thought you also said you were a Christian? What happened to "you shall have no other gods but me"?

No, the post that I was referring to was a link to some alternative pseudo religious stuff. To save you the trouble of looking, here is the quote from that link:-

"This symbol, reminiscent of a yin-yang, is the emblem of the Mayan God Hunab Ku, the supreme creator God of the Maya. It represents the solar calendar, balanced forces, and perfection."

I think we can all agree that this is the very definition of the expression "mumbo jumbo".

Mumbo jumbo = gibberish or nonsense

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_mythology

I dont think that is a good example of mumbo jumbo

I thought you also said you were a Christian? What happened to "you shall have no other gods but me"?

Personally I don't have any other god, we live in a diverse society many of whom are not Christians. I see nothing wrong with being open minded towards the beliefs of others.

I thought you also said you were a Christian? What happened to "you shall have no other gods but me"?

this is a great example of short christian thought

personally i agree with the basic teachings of the christ (eg love)

most christians i've debated with can't see very far theologically, unfortunately

that quote ken has so kindly supplied is hilarious when you think about it

for one thing, surely the one creative force knows full well we are made of it, will return to it, are it? it has no need or desire, let alone to be worshipped

however, projecting our human personalities upon the creative all brings out ideas like a jealous angry demigod such as jehovah who demands that we bow down, and leads to all sorts of idol worship, like christianity

>>>

don't you think that it's a particularly cruel god that would create a race of human beings and then let all but a small proportion of its creation return to it?

that god doesn't seem to fit in with the idea of an infinitely loving god

In a day when rich people went about dressed in gaudy frilly clothes and acted like fops,(Regency Period) a bloke called Beau Brummell came along.
To get noticed he wore black and white clothes with white neckerchiefs.
This got him noticed by the Royalty of the day and therefore everyone started following the fashion, this led to the modern suit and tie outfit.
So the clothing you consider boring was once totally otrageous.
You should have been around in the 60's if you wanted your clothing and hair styles to upset people, it was fabulous old men were nearly having fits.
It amuses me these days the lenghts kids have go to try and shock, and they never do.
The reason being we have been there, done that, and got the T shirt first time round when it was the thing to do.
Sorry Kiddywinkies :cool:

this thread demonstrates both an amazing lack of tolerance for what other people wish to do to themselves, and surprising naevity regarding the modern workplace.

No, the post that I was referring to was a link to some alternative pseudo religious stuff. To save you the trouble of looking, here is the quote from that link:-

"This symbol, reminiscent of a yin-yang, is the emblem of the Mayan God Hunab Ku, the supreme creator God of the Maya. It represents the solar calendar, balanced forces, and perfection."

I think we can all agree that this is the very definition of the expression "mumbo jumbo".

Congratulations - against VERY stiff opposition that is possibly the most arrogant, narrow minded posting I've ever seen!

Congratulations - against VERY stiff opposition that is possibly the most arrogant, narrow minded posting I've ever seen!

Yes but look at the amount of posts he has generated. Like Ken or not, you have to admit he gets some threads going.

Congratulations - against VERY stiff opposition that is possibly the most arrogant, narrow minded posting I've ever seen!

If I had known there was a competition then I wold have tried harder. Don't worry though, LordChav will be on the forum shortly and he lecturers in arrogance so there will be a clear winner.

In a day when rich people went about dressed in gaudy frilly clothes and acted like fops,(Regency Period) a bloke called Beau Brummell came along.
To get noticed he wore black and white clothes with white neckerchiefs.
This got him noticed by the Royalty of the day and therefore everyone started following the fashion, this led to the modern suit and tie outfit.
So the clothing you consider boring was once totally otrageous.
You should have been around in the 60's if you wanted your clothing and hair styles to upset people, it was fabulous old men were nearly having fits.
It amuses me these days the lenghts kids have go to try and shock, and they never do.
The reason being we have been there, done that, and got the T shirt first time round when it was the thing to do.
Sorry Kiddywinkies :cool:

good point, highlighting how all this kinda thing is relative and subjective

as far as i'm concerned there's nothing much left, clothing or body modification wise, to cause me shock, it's all just different styles :thumbsup:

Yes but look at the amount of posts he has generated. Like Ken or not, you have to admit he gets some threads going.

aye fe real

while i don't think i've agreed with anything Ken's said, i've very much enjoyed getting into the debate, which is what it's all about on these sites

it wud be rather boring if we all agreed on everything

:love:

a few weeks ago i wore an old iggy pop t shirt i have, it has the sleeves cut off but no holes anywhere
people who know me in the flesh (ooh err missus) know i have a tattoo on the top of both arms (quite small)
i got told tommorow to wear something more suitable......i cant think of anything more suitable as it was boiling :P
theres no windows or doors and is in the middle of the factory

also its factory work, and not in public view.....apart from the odd time when the director takes a prospective customer on a tour.....and stands in the department doorway for 30 seconds

Never had a problem with tats on both lower forearms at callcentres - though, obviously asked first and at the interview. Hate wearing long sleeved shirts. It's so inhibiting, dude!

Though at the more refined sectors of employment i've had they don't appreciate art and have said to wear long sleeved shirts and tie. There and again they also insisted on shaving everyday. Not to certain religious sections, naturally.

innit funny how people who call ideas different to their belief system, that they haven't investigated, "mumbo jumbo" are incapable of entering into any sort of informed debate about the mumbo or the jumbo

maybe if they looked into some different ideas with an open mind they might realise that, once sifted, there is some pure gold in philosophies somewhat removed from the ones they are used to

:love: :thumbsup:

a few weeks ago i wore an old iggy pop t shirt i have, it has the sleeves cut off but no holes anywhere
people who know me in the flesh (ooh err missus) know i have a tattoo on the top of both arms (quite small)
i got told tommorow to wear something more suitable......i cant think of anything more suitable as it was boiling :P
theres no windows or doors and is in the middle of the factory

also its factory work, and not in public view.....apart from the odd time when the director takes a prospective customer on a tour.....and stands in the department doorway for 30 seconds

that is so wrong, mel

surely if you get too hot that could be a health and safety issue?

your employer is clearly one of the types who think that their standards should apply to everyone else - you have my sympathies and should be able to wear your cutoff t shirt as you like

relatively few people are offended by tats these days, and those that are should get a grip

KEN KEN KEN - I'll stick up for you! maybe I have a prejudice with excessive tatoos, but I HATE them with a passion, I find it offensive, just as I find an excessivly obese person offensive She obviously has no self respect.

she is a very silly individual (in my opinion)

Congratulations - against VERY stiff opposition that is possibly the most arrogant, narrow minded posting I've ever seen!

Care to share the other contenders, please? ;)

that is so wrong, mel

surely if you get too hot that could be a health and safety issue?

your employer is clearly one of the types who think that their standards should apply to everyone else - you have my sympathies and should be able to wear your cutoff t shirt as you like

relatively few people are offended by tats these days, and those that are should get a grip
aye, i agree
the supervisor will have been put up to it by the operations manager tho......everybody in the factory hates him, he nitpicks everything and dishes b0ll0ckings and verbal warnings out like sweets lol

hes actually ok on a night out in the pub and a rocker
but at work hes hitler (no exageration)

i still dont know if it was the tshirt or the tats on show that he took exception to

when you say 'tats' i think of Avid Merrion referring to boobs.lol

I'd say working with your tats out then is offensive hahahaha

when you say 'tats' i think of Avid Merrion referring to boobs.lol

I'd say working with your tats out then is offensive hahahaha

im not that bad :)

hahahahaha that's made me laugh so much lol.

KEN KEN KEN - I'll stick up for you! maybe I have a prejudice with excessive tatoos, but I HATE them with a passion, I find it offensive, just as I find an excessivly obese person offensive She obviously has no self respect.

she is a very silly individual (in my opinion)

why do you find tattoos offensive, jen?

it seems like a really extreme reaction to me

i agree that some tats look absolutely rubbish, but someone with rubbish looking tats doesn't offend me in the slightest - it's none of my business what they have chosen to do to their skin, and should be no concern of theirs whether i like it or not

i agree that some awful tats might indicate lack of self respect, and i do wonder why some people have had some scribbles scrawled on them, but the better tattoos that are excellent works of art done using skin as canvas to me can show self respect as the person has clearly chosen carefully and made sure they go to a good tattooist to get 'em done right

finding extremely obese people offensive, there's an interesting concept

you do seem to get offended easily

people who allow themselves to get into really bad shape could be considered to have a lack of self respect, which could be either what let them get to that shape in the first place or have developed after their shape degenerated

i agree with that - but why do you find it offensive - do you think that they are there to give you something attractive to look at?

i'd consider selling yourself for the night over the internet a sign of lack of self respect, and an even bigger sign of lack of respect for the poor sap parting with his cash

mine are part of my life, major punk bands that have played a major role in my life when i was younger

not just a scrawl but proper album logos

i dont regret them either, they are like a diary of where i once was, still like the bands too even tho ive moved on :P

when i used to go to gigs in other towns id also be recognised by em :P

mine are part of my life,

i dont regret them either, they are like a diary of where i once was, still like the bands too even tho ive moved on :P



I think this is a good point, tattoos are personal, they are part of you and your self expression.

Whats wrong with that?, other people express themselves in other ways.

mine are part of my life, major punk bands that have played a major role in my life when i was younger

not just a scrawl but proper album logos

i dont regret them either, they are like a diary of where i once was, still like the bands too even tho ive moved on :P

when i used to go to gigs in other towns id also be recognised by em :P

something that means something significant to you personally

for me that's what it's really about

the tats that really i'm not into are when you get people going into the tattooist's, pointing at the wall, and going "i want that one" - just getting one done for the sake of having one

I think this is a good point, tattoos are personal, they are part of you and your self expression.

Whats wrong with that?, other people express themselves in other ways.
zactly
i wouldnt just have one out of the tattooists book, celtic bands etc........everybody has those

never known ANYBODY to have mine :)

I think this is a good point, tattoos are personal, they are part of you and your self expression.

Whats wrong with that?, other people express themselves in other ways.
So you should keep them personal and not go inflicting them on everyone else.
This girl should have realised that, when she had them done, the weather was going to get warmer.
That usually means wearing less clothes, she should have known that this kind of self disfigurement is not appreciated by most people and that she would have to keep herself covered up.
The human body is a beautiful creation and does not require alteration by gratuitous disfigurement which belongs in the Stone Age when they knew no better

So you should keep them personal and not go inflicting them on everyone else.
This girl should have realised that, when she had them done, the weather was going to get warmer.
That usually means wearing less clothes, she should have known that this kind of self disfigurement is not appreciated by most people and that she would have to keep herself covered up.
The human body is a beautiful creation and does not require alteration by gratuitous disfigurement which belongs in the Stone Age when they knew no better

easy tiger

she should have known that this kind of self disfigurement is not appreciated by most people and that she would have to keep herself covered up.


why?
you dont like, dont look, simple

i dont see how somebody HAS to cover up just cos somebody DOESNT LIKE tats (: oops : sorry jen13kd done it again :P)

As a teacher I consider myself a very responsible person and take a great deal of pride in my work and helping children to grow academically and personally, and shock, horror, I have two tattoos on the inside of my wrists.

And KenH you said that symbolism is mumbo jumbo but what about personal symbolism. For the great Irish poet Yeats, water and birds had great symbolism and he used them a great deal in his poetry.

Both my tattoos have a personal symbolism for me.

Would you take your children out of my class just because I have tattoos?

Would you take your children out of my class just because I have tattoos?

or is education more important than somebodys looks?

So you should keep them personal and not go inflicting them on everyone else.
This girl should have realised that, when she had them done, the weather was going to get warmer.
That usually means wearing less clothes, she should have known that this kind of self disfigurement is not appreciated by most people and that she would have to keep herself covered up.
The human body is a beautiful creation and does not require alteration by gratuitous disfigurement which belongs in the Stone Age when they knew no better

this use of the words "inflicting" and "disfigurement" is clearly how you think about it, but not how others think about it - you either need to realise and accept this, or remain uncomfortable when you no doubt see someone looking how you think they shouldn't

people have got the right to look how they like without having to modify what they look like due to how some bigot feels

there are so many different bigots about, thinking that people should be a certain way, how would a person know which way to turn if they followed all of the bigot's directions???

is there an advisory service giving help to decide which bigot's directions to follow?

there are so many bigots about, thinking that people should be a certain way, how would a person know which way to turn if they followed the bigot's directions???
round in circles cos somebodys like is somebodys dislike which in turn is somebody elses like...etc etc

why do you find tattoos offensive, jen?

it seems like a really extreme reaction to me

i agree that some tats look absolutely rubbish, but someone with rubbish looking tats doesn't offend me in the slightest - it's none of my business what they have chosen to do to their skin, and should be no concern of theirs whether i like it or not

i agree that some awful tats might indicate lack of self respect, and i do wonder why some people have had some scribbles scrawled on them, but the better tattoos that are excellent works of art done using skin as canvas to me can show self respect as the person has clearly chosen carefully and made sure they go to a good tattooist to get 'em done right

finding extremely obese people offensive, there's an interesting concept

you do seem to get offended easily

people who allow themselves to get into really bad shape could be considered to have a lack of self respect, which could be either what let them get to that shape in the first place or have developed after their shape degenerated

i agree with that - but why do you find it offensive - do you think that they are there to give you something attractive to look at?

i'd consider selling yourself for the night over the internet a sign of lack of self respect, and an even bigger sign of lack of respect for the poor sap parting with his cash

maybe I am easily offended - here's a list of a few thing which annoy me,

* people smoking in public
* people dropping litter / fly tipping
* watching an obese person eat unhealthy/fatty food
* people p*ssing in street corners
* men who slap girls bums on nights out
* wasting energy
* excessive piercings and tatoos
* excessive plastic surgery
* people who complain about being skint yet can't be bothered to get a job
* drug taking
* prostitution
* roudy/aggressive sports fans
* people who complain about been unhealthy yet eat rubbish and dont exercise
* tramps
* illegal immogrants
* building sites leving their rubbush to the roadside
* noisy neighbours
* idiots on SF :loopy:
* people obsessed with vanity and image
* crap excuses
* animal testing
* meat / animal industry
* pollution
* war
* no respect for our elders
* lack of respect for our country

Thats just a snippet! :rant:

round in circles cos somebodys like is somebodys dislike which in turn is somebody elses like...etc etc

lol - of course you're right, but the question was more rhetorical and jokey, i didn't really expect an ansa ...

:hihi:

maybe I am easily offended - here's a list of a few thing which annoy me,

* people smoking in public
* people dropping litter / fly tipping
* watching an obese person eat unhealthy/fatty food
* people p*ssing in street corners
* men who slap girls bums on nights out
* wasting energy
* excessive piercings and tatoos
* excessive plastic surgery
* people who complain about being skint yet can't be bothered to get a job
* drug taking
* prostitution
* roudy/aggressive sports fans
* people who complain about been unhealthy yet eat rubbish and dont exercise
* tramps
* illegal immogrants
* building sites leving their rubbush to the roadside
* noisy neighbours
* idiots on SF :loopy:
* people obsessed with vanity and image
* crap excuses
* animal testing
* meat / animal industry
* pollution
* war
* no respect for our elders
* lack of respect for our country

Thats just a snippet! :rant:


crikey

youve really thought about that list then? :P
think i count on a few of those :P (maybe 7) although my "tats" lol, sorry arent excessive, they might just be inside the excessive limit :P
*gets coat*

maybe I am easily offended - here's a list of a few thing which annoy me,

* people smoking in public
* people dropping litter / fly tipping
* watching an obese person eat unhealthy/fatty food
* people p*ssing in street corners
* men who slap girls bums on nights out
* wasting energy
* excessive piercings and tatoos
* excessive plastic surgery
* people who complain about being skint yet can't be bothered to get a job
* drug taking
* prostitution
* roudy/aggressive sports fans
* people who complain about been unhealthy yet eat rubbish and dont exercise
* tramps
* illegal immogrants
* building sites leving their rubbush to the roadside
* noisy neighbours
* idiots on SF :loopy:
* people obsessed with vanity and image
* crap excuses
* animal testing
* meat / animal industry
* pollution
* war
* no respect for our elders
* lack of respect for our country

Thats just a snippet! :rant:

lol - that's quite a list, but funnily enuff i also dislike 22 of your 26 points there - i'll let you guess which ones i don't agree with!

the one point i agree with most of all by far is wasting energy

being actively offended by something that's got nowt to do with me like what someone else looks like i'd consider to be a total waste of energy - even worse, it'd get me into an unpleasant state of mind that i'd rather not be in

so it's one thing not to like something, but to go so far as to actually be offended by it implies using energy that'd be better used in another way

:love:

I personally feel that for customer facing work, or where you meet the public, tattoos are innapropriate. Other than that I dont really care, although out of a sence of my own personal smartness, I wouldn't have a tattoo that isn't covered by at least a short sleved shirt.

Joel

I personally feel that for customer facing work, or where you meet the public, tattoos are innapropriate. Other than that I dont really care, although out of a sence of my own personal smartness, I wouldn't have a tattoo that isn't covered by at least a short sleved shirt.

Joel

Noone has yet given an actual decent reason WHY they consider tattoos to be inappropriate!

Because clearly some people (as evidenced here) are offended/made uncomfortable by tatoo's, so any position where the person has to interact with other people (ie customers, or coworkers), is potentially bringing them into contact with these people.

It doesn't matter if these people are offended because they are narrow minded, or bigots or whatever, the fact that people like that exist is enough to make it inappropriate to have visible tatoos in certain work environments.

Because clearly some people (as evidenced here) are offended/made uncomfortable by tatoo's, so any position where the person has to interact with other people (ie customers, or coworkers), is potentially bringing them into contact with these people.

It doesn't matter if these people are offended because they are narrow minded, or bigots or whatever, the fact that people like that exist is enough to make it inappropriate to have visible tatoos in certain work environments.

lol, maybe my attitude is inappropriate for the workplace, but i reckon that these people are out of order and shouldn't be cowtowed to (however you spell it!)

your reason has been mentioned in this thread already i don't consider that reason a decent reason

the problem as i see it is with the viewer of the tattoo, not the wearer

i'm sure a few close minded numbskulls leaving a business premises due to someone sporting tattoos will not be enough to put the business out of business

lol, i've just noticed your sig, which made me laugh cos it seems to sum up my point here in one concise sentence:

"If all the people who ever said "Why should I try, i'm only one person, I can't affect the outcome" had taken a stance, the world would be a better place. "

If I owned a business I would hire people for customer contact who would be least likely to offend any potential customer. And equally if I were hiring someone who wouldn't have contact with staff i'd hire someone who I thought would fit in well with the existing staff.
In some companies this might include someone with multiple piercings and all over tatoo's, but in others it might not.
Running a business isn't about changing the world, at least if it's your business, it's about making a profit.

It's probably potentially a lot more than a few close minded numbskulls. If you are selling business to business then one close minded numbskull might walk out and take a million pounds worth of business to a competitor. Customers aren't always Joe Blogs buying £50 of goods. They can be CEO J Blogs buying £500,000 of services or goods.

once upon a time .... womens ankles offended
ohhhhhhhh how we now chuckle at that :rolleyes:

KEN KEN KEN - I'll stick up for you! maybe I have a prejudice with excessive tatoos, but I HATE them with a passion, I find it offensive, just as I find an excessivly obese person offensive She obviously has no self respect.

she is a very silly individual (in my opinion)
you nasty cow what a totally insensative thing to say.. what about those people with health problems? those people that ACTUALLY CANT HELP being over weight ! do you say the same about the handicapped? how dare they show up in your range of vision muddying your perverted veiw of how life should really be. seems to me you want to live in some sterile fairytale world.

grow up and take some lessons in manors you pethetic excuse for a human being. even ken with his misguided veiws isnt as rude and nasty as you :rant:

If I owned a business I would hire people for customer contact who would be least likely to offend any potential customer. And equally if I were hiring someone who wouldn't have contact with staff i'd hire someone who I thought would fit in well with the existing staff.
In some companies this might include someone with multiple piercings and all over tatoo's, but in others it might not.
Running a business isn't about changing the world, at least if it's your business, it's about making a profit.

It's probably potentially a lot more than a few close minded numbskulls. If you are selling business to business then one close minded numbskull might walk out and take a million pounds worth of business to a competitor. Customers aren't always Joe Blogs buying £50 of goods. They can be CEO J Blogs buying £500,000 of services or goods.

well blow me sideways, what a buffoon I am

your above ideas took me by surprise, and I retract all my previous statements

FFS!

>>>

"If all the people who ever said "Why should I try, i'm only one person, I can't affect the outcome" had taken a stance, the world would be a better place. "

you nasty cow what a totally insensative thing to say.. what about those people with health problems? those people that ACTUALLY CANT HELP being over weight ! do you say the same about the handicapped? how dare they show up in your range of vision muddying your perverted veiw of how life should really be. seems to me you want to live in some sterile fairytale world.

grow up and take some lessons in manors you pethetic excuse for a human being. even ken with his misguided veiws isnt as rude and nasty as you :rant:

heh heh :hihi:

lay it out as it is

well blow me sideways, what a buffoon I am

your above ideas took me by surprise, and I retract all my previous statements

FFS!

>>>

"If all the people who ever said "Why should I try, i'm only one person, I can't affect the outcome" had taken a stance, the world would be a better place. "

I wasn't expecting you to retract any statements, just detailing the reason you kept asking for.
The reasons I've given are the ones that mean some employers consider tatoo's to be inappropriate. You don't have to agree with it, but it is a fact (not by virtue that I say so, but it's the best way I can explain what does happen).
You say that if you ran a business you wouldn't care if you offended a few customers, I've just pointed out that for some businesses offending the wrong few customers would mean that the company went under.

Noone has yet given an actual decent reason WHY they consider tattoos to be inappropriate!

Take a look at the pictures on the BBC website of the tattoos that prompted this thread.

One of the tattoos is of a scantily clad lady.

I do not think that I would be wrong to suggest that a male worker would be reprimanded if he wore a shirt depicting the same image in that same council workplace.

If I owned a business I would hire people for customer contact who would be least likely to offend any potential customer. And equally if I were hiring someone who wouldn't have contact with staff i'd hire someone who I thought would fit in well with the existing staff..

The problem is that you don't really want to restrict people to just one role. If you think that tatoos might be offensive to customers then you don't want to employ someone that you can never move to a position that is customer facing. In the case of this idiot girl that this thread is about, she is claiming that she is not customer facing but personally I doubt her version. It is much more likely that visitors come to see other people near her so that she is effectively customer facing whether she likes it or not.

Personally, I get offended by shirts, ties, and suits, nobody seems to listen to my complaints.

As a teacher I consider myself a very responsible person and take a great deal of pride in my work and helping children to grow academically and personally, and shock, horror, I have two tattoos on the inside of my wrists.

And KenH you said that symbolism is mumbo jumbo but what about personal symbolism. For the great Irish poet Yeats, water and birds had great symbolism and he used them a great deal in his poetry.

Both my tattoos have a personal symbolism for me.

Would you take your children out of my class just because I have tattoos?


no, but would your school code of dress prohibit pupils displaying tattooss or piercings?

in my experience teachers can & do, do as they please and then prohibit pupils. my daughter was taught by a drama teacher with a nose ring,my daughter was reprimanded for wearing 2 sets of earrings.

The problem is that you don't really want to restrict people to just one role. If you think that tatoos might be offensive to customers then you don't want to employ someone that you can never move to a position that is customer facing. In the case of this idiot girl that this thread is about, she is claiming that she is not customer facing but personally I doubt her version. It is much more likely that visitors come to see other people near her so that she is effectively customer facing whether she likes it or not.

Why is she an idiot!!!?? :huh: :suspect:

xxx

The problem is that you don't really want to restrict people to just one role. If you think that tatoos might be offensive to customers then you don't want to employ someone that you can never move to a position that is customer facing.

Some people dont want a job that is customer facing though.They are perfectly happy in stockrooms or warehouses.Just because society now gears success around having a fabulous career with fancy suits and 3 or more holidays a year doesnt mean that is what everybody wants from life.Id rather shoot myself than wear a suit and ponce around an office.

maybe I am easily offended - here's a list of a few thing which annoy me,

* people smoking in public
* people dropping litter / fly tipping
* watching an obese person eat unhealthy/fatty food
* people p*ssing in street corners
* men who slap girls bums on nights out
* wasting energy
* excessive piercings and tatoos
* excessive plastic surgery
* people who complain about being skint yet can't be bothered to get a job
* drug taking
* prostitution
* roudy/aggressive sports fans
* people who complain about been unhealthy yet eat rubbish and dont exercise
* tramps
* illegal immogrants
* building sites leving their rubbush to the roadside
* noisy neighbours
* idiots on SF :loopy:
* people obsessed with vanity and image
* crap excuses
* animal testing
* meat / animal industry
* pollution
* war
* no respect for our elders
* lack of respect for our country

Thats just a snippet! :rant:

Thats some list, I'm suprised you leave the house.

Some people dont want a job that is customer facing though.They are perfectly happy in stockrooms or warehouses.Just because society now gears success around having a fabulous career with fancy suits and 3 or more holidays a year doesnt mean that is what everybody wants from life.Id rather shoot myself than wear a suit and ponce around an office.

Agreed, the "general public" are best avoided at all costs.

Can we steer this away from this personal slanging match thing going on...

So, some people don't like tattoos?? Their loss. I bet if you employed just SOME of the people on here wiith tattoos and piercings you'd have a good workforce. Now, thats not to say people without tattoos and piercings don't work as well, what I'm trying to say is that its all relative.

At the end of the day some people may not like it. All we can do is try and educate people that those of us with tattoos aren't neanderthals and those of us who don't like tattoos aren't stuck up middle class ****heads.

Do you really think we're doing a good job of educating each other when all we're doing is just ripping strips out of each other. I know its not everyone, but still... just trying to say what I think :suspect:

I think that the best thing anyone who is thinking of getting a tattoo could do is to look at old photos of people in the 1970's. You will find people with hilarious sideburns, daft haircuts, very wide flares and flowery shirts. BY 1980 they had thrown all these away and by 1990 they had thrown away the fashion items from the 1980's. If you get a tattoo which you think looks trendy and fashionable, such as some strange aztec symbol or the chinese word for "mug", then you are permanently giving yourself the 2006 version of flared trousers. The only trouble is that you won't be able to look back in 30 years and laugh at the flowery shirt that made you look "with it", you will be stuck with it forever. Of course, having small tattoos under your clothes has always happened (mostly by drunk sailors on shore leave) but I am really referring to large or obvious tattoos that appear to be trendy until the next big craze.

Of course, having small tattoos under your clothes has always happened (mostly by drunk sailors on shore leave)

Did you know that Winston Churchills mother had a tattoo, round her wrist, and that it was very popular in the "middle" classes in those days, so it's hardly the new "craze" you seem to think it is, nor is it restricted to the "lower classes" and mad self abusers.

Fom www.tattoo.co.uk

DO YOU KNOW OF ANY TATTOOED ROYALTY?

King Frederick (IX) of Denmark was tattooed, he visited George Burchett in London in the 40s to have the tattoo redone. George I of Greece was said to have been tattooed while serving in the British Navy, his wife Queen Olga was also tattooed it has been claimed. George V was a naval cadet in 1877 with his elder brother Prince Albert, Duke of Clarence. In 1870 whilst serving on the HMS Bachante they found themselves in Japan, and whilst there were both tattooed by Hori Chyo of Yokohama. George became King of England in 1936. Edward VII the eldest son of Queen Victoria. Prince Edward was tattooed before he became King in 1901. He was tattooed in Jerusalem by Francois Souwan, this first tattoo was a cross. He was later tattooed in London by Sutherland MacDonald and also Tom Riley. Lady Randolph Churchill was tattooed, this was Sir Winston Churchill's mother. Lady Churchill was tattooed by Tom Riley and had a snake around her wrist. Lord Lichfield has a sea horse tattooed on his arm, this was done by George Burchett when he was working in the Waterloo Road, London.


And, how do you know so much about drunk sailors on shore leave ?

I think that the best thing anyone who is thinking of getting a tattoo could do is to look at old photos of people in the 1970's. You will find people with hilarious sideburns, daft haircuts, very wide flares and flowery shirts. BY 1980 they had thrown all these away and by 1990 they had thrown away the fashion items from the 1980's. If you get a tattoo which you think looks trendy and fashionable, such as some strange aztec symbol or the chinese word for "mug", then you are permanently giving yourself the 2006 version of flared trousers. The only trouble is that you won't be able to look back in 30 years and laugh at the flowery shirt that made you look "with it", you will be stuck with it forever. Of course, having small tattoos under your clothes has always happened (mostly by drunk sailors on shore leave) but I am really referring to large or obvious tattoos that appear to be trendy until the next big craze.

But what if the tattoos actually mean something. My mum has tattoos that she has had for 20 years that she is still proud of because she chose them with such care and precision that there's no chance she will ever regret it.

Same with my tattoo design. The design in itself means something, but there are bits and pieces within the design that mean something on their own.

So no, i don't think I will regret it .

But what if the tattoos actually mean something. My mum has tattoos that she has had for 20 years that she is still proud of because she chose them with such care and precision that there's no chance she will ever regret it.

Same with my tattoo design. The design in itself means something, but there are bits and pieces within the design that mean something on their own.

So no, i don't think I will regret it .

Same her, my mum has a few tiny tattoos but each one means something to her.

A tattoo is not a craze, its a personal thing.

xxx

no, but would your school code of dress prohibit pupils displaying tattooss or piercings?

in my experience teachers can & do, do as they please and then prohibit pupils. my daughter was taught by a drama teacher with a nose ring,my daughter was reprimanded for wearing 2 sets of earrings.

Surely you're not saying kids should be allowed to do everything teachers do?

In my opinion it would be sad if children were only taught by people who didn't have tattoos or piercings.

Willman I think that you are forgetting that teachers are adults and pupils are children.

Of course they should act differently.

So no, i don't think I will regret it .

You don't think you will today, ut we all thought we looked great in our flowery shirts with collars almost down to our waists. The fact is that you can't know if you will regret it and you can't easily remove it. The best you can do is to listen to people who have lived through several such crazes. I say that it is just a fashionable craze because it is only recently that you would see young women with large obvious tattoos. If you go futher back then such people would have really stood out and now they don't. It is certainly true that people have always had tatoos but the type and design varies enormously. If people have a small flower on their buttock then how can anyone know? If they have some apparently fashionable symbol right across the back of their neck then everyone will know and it might look very silly when the fashion wears off. It would be much better to get a silly haircut or wear daft clothes because you can discard these.

Willman I think that you are forgetting that teachers are adults and pupils are children.

Of course they should act differently.

I used to be shocked when I saw small children with their ears pierced and I used to assume they were from a different culture (I thought they might be gypsies but I now know them to be mostly Chavs). It is now more unusual for children of abut 10 not to have their ears pierced which strikes me as very odd. My daughter will be allowed to have hers done at 30, just before she is allowed to have her first boyfriend.

Willman I think that you are forgetting that teachers are adults and pupils are children.

Of course they should act differently.

i'm not doubting the differences or suggesting that pierced or tattooed people are anyway different to anyone else.if you read my other posts i have no isue with tats at all.

the problem i have is where peopel defend their own right to have tattoos & piercings and then tell others they can't have them.
if i think 14 is old enough for double ear piercings that is my decision and not one to be dictated by a pierced "older" person.
that was my point,nothing else.

Surely you're not saying kids should be allowed to do everything teachers do?

In my opinion it would be sad if children were only taught by people who didn't have tattoos or piercings.


i've responded with ollies quote.

i think children should be taught by those capable.to me that means anyone & everyone who has undergone training, i dont care if they are pierced,tattooed,disabled,dyslexic or just downright boring.
but should adults with piercings & tats be allowed to dictate what other people are allowed to do.

Willman, honey, I am not arguing. I think the issue with earrings and piercings is more of a health and safety issue. If a teacher wears long earrings and one is pulled out, ripping out some skin that is her responsibility; if the same were to happen to a child it would be the school's responsibility.

When I was enforcing the no long earrings rule, I never wore long earrings or wore more than one earring on each ear, but that was my personal choice and different teachers have different approaches.

You don't think you will today, ut we all thought we looked great in our flowery shirts with collars almost down to our waists. The fact is that you can't know if you will regret it and you can't easily remove it. The best you can do is to listen to people who have lived through several such crazes. I say that it is just a fashionable craze because it is only recently that you would see young women with large obvious tattoos. If you go futher back then such people would have really stood out and now they don't. It is certainly true that people have always had tatoos but the type and design varies enormously. If people have a small flower on their buttock then how can anyone know? If they have some apparently fashionable symbol right across the back of their neck then everyone will know and it might look very silly when the fashion wears off. It would be much better to get a silly haircut or wear daft clothes because you can discard these.


Yes, but as I said previously, my mother, who GOT her tattoos, (which I might add are all medium - large (including a dragon on her back which covers about a quarter of her it), during these "flares and sideburn" days, and still loves each and every one, APART from the small ones on her hips, which she is getting covered with larger tattoos.

She really does regret none of her larger tattoos,and as I said before this is because they mean something.

Yes, but as I said previously, my mother, who GOT her tattoos, (which I might add are all medium - large (including a dragon on her back which covers about a quarter of her it), during these "flares and sideburn" days, and still loves each and every one, APART from the small ones on her hips, which she is getting covered with larger tattoos.

She really does regret none of her larger tattoos,and as I said before this is because they mean something.

What does "mean something" mean exactly? I would think that a large dragon on the shoulder means that someone watched too many episodes of Kung Foo. If you have been brought up in an environment where you think this is perfectly normal then you are unlikely to see the mistake you are making. At some point you might break away from that environment and get a different view of life and may come to regret something you have done.

At some point you might break away from that environment and get a different view of life and may come to regret something you have done.

It's easier to regret something your did do than something you didn't.

Or so they say, no doubt you'll dissagree and advocate doing nothing incase you later regret it.

It's easier to regret something your did do than something you didn't.

Or so they say, no doubt you'll dissagree and advocate doing nothing incase you later regret it.

There are things that you should do even if you later regret them. However these are big important things, such as going on a dangerous expedition, working abroad, starting a business etc. Things that don't fall into this catagory are those which are (in most cases) simply vanity, such as getting plastic breasts or having colourful tattos across your neck.

What does "mean something" mean exactly? I would think that a large dragon on the shoulder means that someone watched too many episodes of Kung Foo. If you have been brought up in an environment where you think this is perfectly normal then you are unlikely to see the mistake you are making. At some point you might break away from that environment and get a different view of life and may come to regret something you have done.

OK, running slightly too close to insulting my family there.... Look, I am trying to be sympathetic to your points and explain things from my point of view.

Symbolism is a very personal thing, and I'm not going to go into what my mum's tattoos mean, cos its none of your business. We know as a family, and that's good enough for us.

I don't particularly want to "break away from that environment" to be honest. I love my family and if they've got tattoos, so what. We're a loving family, all of whom have good (or reasonably good jobs). My mother works in the citizens advice bureau sector, I work in the property sector and my dad works in engineering.

All I was doing was pointing out to you that your point about all of us "regretting" our tattoos in 20 years time is not necessarily true. I also know quite a lot of my mum's friends who have large tattoos 20-30 years ago that they don't regret.

OK, running slightly too close to insulting my family there.... Look, I am trying to be sympathetic to your points and explain things from my point of view.

Symbolism is a very personal thing, and I'm not going to go into what my mum's tattoos mean, cos its none of your business. We know as a family, and that's good enough for us.

I don't particularly want to "break away from that environment" to be honest. I love my family and if they've got tattoos, so what. We're a loving family, all of whom have good (or reasonably good jobs). My mother works in the citizens advice bureau sector, I work in the property sector and my dad works in engineering.

All I was doing was pointing out to you that your point about all of us "regretting" our tattoos in 20 years time is not necessarily true. I also know quite a lot of my mum's friends who have large tattoos 20-30 years ago that they don't regret.

It would mean just as much to you if you stick a post-it note on the fridge with the same message and leave it there for 20 years. When you change your mind about tatoos, or they go out of fashion, then you can throw away the post-it.

I am sorry for mentioning your mother, although you brought it up first, and would prefer if we only discussed the woman that this thread is about or anyone who has talked about their own circumstances and wished to enter into a debate. I am quite happy trying (failing!) to make a point to you, provided you are happy to debate this, but it makes more sense to talk about the woman who opened up this debate or to talk in generalisations. I wouldn't really dream of telling you that you are making a mistake having a tattoo, but I think it is a reasonable to debate whether people in general are making a mistake.

There are things that you should do even if you later regret them. However these are big important things, such as going on a dangerous expedition, working abroad, starting a business etc. Things that don't fall into this catagory are those which are (in most cases) simply vanity, such as getting plastic breasts or having colourful tattos across your neck.

Life would be very dull if you didn't do things because they wern't "big" enough to be worth trying, you'd have the same haircut for ever, the same clothes, the same car, nothing would change as you would think everything was too "trivial" to risk.

Life would be very dull if you didn't do things because they wern't "big" enough to be worth trying, you'd have the same haircut for ever, the same clothes, the same car, nothing would change as you would think everything was too "trivial" to risk.

You are right of course (although I have had the same haircut for at least 20 years), but however trivial the risk you take, it still doesn't justify permanent chages for reasons of pure vanity.

KenH, can I have a photo of your face? I want it tattooed over my face. Then everyone will think I'm sensible like you.

KenH, can I have a photo of your face? I want it tattooed over my face. Then everyone will think I'm sensible like you.

I am sorry but I don't have a picture. This is the best I can do as most people say I am the spitting image of this man.

http://arts.osu.edu/3news_events/a_news/a_news_assets/news_assets_spring_2005/robert_redford_web.jpg

Ken, if you look anything like that man, you are very suave. I have booked an appointment. Will you give me a job when I look just like you? Maybe we could merge this thread with the one about 'Would you like a twin'?

It would mean just as much to you if you stick a post-it note on the fridge with the same message and leave it there for 20 years. When you change your mind about tatoos, or they go out of fashion, then you can throw away the post-it.

I am sorry for mentioning your mother, although you brought it up first, and would prefer if we only discussed the woman that this thread is about or anyone who has talked about their own circumstances and wished to enter into a debate. I am quite happy trying (failing!) to make a point to you, provided you are happy to debate this, but it makes more sense to talk about the woman who opened up this debate or to talk in generalisations. I wouldn't really dream of telling you that you are making a mistake having a tattoo, but I think it is a reasonable to debate whether people in general are making a mistake.


I understand that, although the way you have come across does seem to have been attacking people quite personally. Whether or not this was your intention, I don't know, but that's the way its come across. i brought up my mother as a point to show you the other side of the coin. Its really hard to talk in generalisations without backing it up with evidence.

I thought you'd look more like this man Ken.

http://www.2worldwar2.com/images/adolf-hitler.jpg

That's what I look like. That was the last time I decided to have someone else face tattooed over my own. Imagine my horror when I found out WHO the face belonged to, and WHAT he had done!

Now you can see why I need a cover-up job.

I understand that, although the way you have come across does seem to have been attacking people quite personally. Whether or not this was your intention, I don't know, but that's the way its come across. i brought up my mother as a point to show you the other side of the coin. Its really hard to talk in generalisations without backing it up with evidence.

It has never been my intention to openly attack anyone on this forum for their views, and, with one exception*, I will always apologise if anyone takes offence, and do so now. I was really offering views that opened up a lively debate and got everyone to question their standpoint. I like these liveley debates because they often cause me to change my views. I think the woman who this thread is about is fair game because she is the one that contacted the media about her "discrimination". The individuals on this forum should expect a response if they use a personal example to illustrate their view point but I also think it reasonable for them to ask for that debate to stop (as in this case) if they think it has gone too far.


* My exception is not related to anyone on this thread or tattoos. I just might well be rather over zealous in my attacks on racists on other threads and won't apologise if that offends them.

I'm actually glad this debate has been opened up because with some exceptions, its been quite a good debate. I may not agree or understand what you say, but they're your opinions, I can't change them, but I can debate them till I'm blue in the face..
:mrgreen:

Chris_Sleeps, I've removed your last post as it ws offensive. Please use a little more decorum in future. Thanks.

but they're your opinions, I can't change them, :mrgreen:

Of course you can! There are people who refuse to budge one inch but I am certainly not one of them. I regularly hear arguments that change my view of a subject or give me a new angle on it.

Of course you can! There are people who refuse to budge one inch but I am certainly not one of them. I regularly hear arguments that change my view of a subject or give me a new angle on it.

welll, using generalisations...

I understand that people may be afraid / uncomfortable with people who have lots of tattoos. However, on the flipside of this the people that have the tattoos are often polite responisble people who choose to express themselves by tattooing themselves.

Although I am a fan of tattoos, I can definitely see why some people do not employ people with obvious tattoos in jobs which they deal with people. This is not to say that I agree with this point of view. Unfortunately, this is just the way it is.

I think that there's a lot of people who don't understand the reasons why people get tattooed. Fair enough if its something that you know is going to make you proud, but I do have personal issues with people who get tattooed cos its "fashionable" with little squiggles that they've just seen on a piece of paper somewhere. I've seen too many of those when I used to work in a tattoo studio.

Wow! I actually (semi) read all 15 pages...probably 16 by the time I hit submit!

A thread that started as being about a woman's disagreement with her employer over how she appeared at the workplace. Quite frankly I think if the employer has certain... erm...standards* of dress then employees should adhere to them and the employer has every right to complain about it.

Remarkable how an initial post about employers and tatoos ends up with people discussing religions. :loopy: :D

*before anyone complains I don't mean to imply anything about tatoos being sub-standard etc etc so don't bother... ;) I just couldn't think of the word I wanted.

KEN KEN KEN - I'll stick up for you! maybe I have a prejudice with excessive tatoos, but I HATE them with a passion, I find it offensive, just as I find an excessivly obese person offensive She obviously has no self respect.

she is a very silly individual (in my opinion)

Ropey slappers with fat, bull dog licking p**s off a nettle faces offend me far more than any tattoo i have ever seen. And your mate's gorgeous too ain't she?:hihi:

Personally, I get offended by shirts, ties, and suits, nobody seems to listen to my complaints.

:thumbsup:

In the dental school where I used to do research, dental students had to be clean shaven, smartly dressed and the rule with the blokes was "mickey mouse tie, mickey mouse attitude".
I am not saying this is right, (nor am I totally against mickey mouse in any way), but there is a level of expectation from joe public that in certain positions of authority/respect/senior management or whatever that a certain image is maintained, dentists seeming to fall into this catagory.
As for the tattooed lady...it certainly is her choice to decorate her body however she wishes, but at the same time, given societies' many and varied prejudices (regarding weight, religion, skin colour, sexuality etc etc all discussed with some passion on this forum) I think she was naive to expect to get through her working life completely unscathed by her choices.
I saw a clip of a program on 5 about a choir from Blackbird leys and one of the ladies on that was very tattooed- with 3 or 4 designs on her face as well as her arms and legs...definitely something I have never seen on the stage of the albert hall before...because classical musicians dont have facial tattoos or because professional orchestra/choirs make judgements on appearance as well as skill??
I dont think its right to make decisions based on appearance but I accept that it still happens and certainly would be happy to conform to a dress policy at work (without complaining to the bbc) and show off my body art in my social time instead.

I think if you enjoy the work enough, there's no reason not to cover up. Why complain about it?

I'm in two minds about this.

I'll defend to the death her right to work there. It isn't really cutomer standards when the customers are never going to know she has tattoos or not.it would be cowworker or management bullying to get rid of her solely because she has tattoo.

However, her attitude seems to be the problem also, she refuses to talk to her employers and I am unsure if her employers even asked her to cover up. Surely communication under difficult circumstances is a job skill not only something she should be doing at work.

Moving on from this though, I would be offended if an employer didn't hire me because of aesthetic reasons as opposed to my experience or ability to do the job. Maybe your personal appearance would be a factor in your ability in some jobs (esp. face to face with general public).

Following on from joeyannie, to which I agree with to some extent. It is about your own preconceived ideas about respectability. Some people assocxiate respectability with wearing a suit and so when they want to look and feel repsectable will wear a suit to give them a mental edge (I'm one of these people). Others don;t need this edge or don't associate suits with respectability. I can see why these people wouldn;t see the need to wear a suit.

The problem is that if you are in a job where a lot of the work you do is based upon first impressions and the way to look to others, you have to play to common conceptions about people. If you want to make a good impression, wear a suit and keep your tattoo's hidden.

If you don't do a job where visual first impressions fo your person don't happen, then I don't see the point in doing this. Also, if you're doing a job where these customer preconceptions change then naturally your work appearance will change too.

This is all under the assumption that we only dress for other people too. We often dress for ourselves too, where we want to show our own individuality, feel confident or feel like you've expressed yourself. Tattoos and piercings are a part of that and so your work appearance and your personal appearance ends up being a mix of the two, enough to create those good first impressions to the majority of people you will meet and feel secure within yourself.

Wilf

I'll defend to the death her right to work there.

I wouldn't. I would much rather she is on the dole than that I am dead.

Seems to me there are an awful lot of people involved in this debate that appear snobbish and very Victorian in their attitudes.
Latest news ..... Welcome to 2006 and like it or not, these kind of things are here to stay, whether it's tattoos, peircings, obesity or what have you.
All I can say is just put your prejudices to one side for a moment and try look beneath the surface of these people you find offensive. You'll probably find a different sort of person to what you so narrow mindedly imagined them to be in the first place.

possibly - it may be a class thing - but then again it all about perspective. I've been brought up to respect my body for how it is - naturally, so to me I find people 'defacing' their natural look, quite offensive.

A fair but very "British" point.
Don't forget though that cultures all over the world have been tattooing, peircing and generally changing their "normal" appearance for thousands of years.
E.g. African and South American tribes pierce themselves to extremes and also tattoo themselves almost to the same extreme.
We consider ourselves to be a cultured race, but look at the Japanese .. heaps more culture than us and this is where it is generally recognised that tatooing originated.
What I'm saying is that us Brits are a very reserved and insular race and should broaden our horizons a little before we make judgements on other peoples tastes.

A fair but very "British" point.
Don't forget though that cultures all over the world have been tattooing, peircing and generally changing their "normal" appearance for thousands of years.
E.g. African and South American tribes pierce themselves to extremes and also tattoo themselves almost to the same extreme.
We consider ourselves to be a cultured race, but look at the Japanese .. heaps more culture than us and this is where it is generally recognised that tatooing originated.
What I'm saying is that us Brits are a very reserved and insular race and should broaden our horizons a little before we make judgements on other peoples tastes.

Very good post, and yes, I agree with all you just said. There is nothing more I hate then jen13kd, and thats ignorance :p

but look at the Japanese .. heaps more culture than us and this is where it is generally recognised that tatooing originated.
.

Just look at the Yakuza.They are all generally heavily tattooed with full body suits

i'm making my judment based on my up bringing, which i believe i am entitled to do as I said before, every opinion is valid, I would never for one minute tell a complete stranger in the street that there tatoos offend me.

My fella has a tatoo on his back which I absolutely HATE, and he doesn't mind me telling him this.

Just look at the Yakuza.They are all generally heavily tattooed with full body suits

The first documented tattoos were actually on Japanese royalty, so maybe this might put a different slant (No joke intended) on some peoples opinions

I suppose my experience of tatoos is quite negative and that will always stay with me and affect my judgement. I don't think that people should stop having tatoos though, if they want to express themselves that way - the go for it, but dont expect people to not react to how they feel about the, that all my point was

I suppose my experience of tatoos is quite negative and that will always stay with me and affect my judgement. I don't think that people should stop having tatoos though, if they want to express themselves that way - the go for it, but dont expect people to not react to how they feel about the, that all my point was

I appreciate and understand that some people won't like them and may be even shocked by some tattoos, but if they can get into the heads of the people that have them and figure out why, then it can only be for the better. I'm not saying like them, just appreciate that they're nothing new or rare.

I suppose my experience of tatoos is quite negative and that will always stay with me and affect my judgement. I don't think that people should stop having tatoos though, if they want to express themselves that way - the go for it, but dont expect people to not react to how they feel about the, that all my point was

Which is fair enough since everybody is entitled to their own views.However some people have referred to anybody getting tattooed as basically stupid because they dont agree with it.Now anyone who gets the amount of ink this chick has should be ready for some stick when it comes to work but outside that it has nothing to do with other people.I personally couldnt give a toss if i die penniless in a gutter as long as i lived my life how i wanted to live it not how i thought would be wisest in order for me to be accepted by society

....but look at the Japanese .. heaps more culture than us...
??
I'm not sure I understand how one society is more cultured than another? More cultured by whos standards? Our European society?

??
I'm not sure I understand how one society is more cultured than another? More cultured by whos standards? Our European society?

What I'm saying is, the Japanese have a culture that goes back thousands of years - back to the days when we were nothing but hut dwellers that dressed in skins and hunted animals with clubs. By modern standards no one country can claim to be more cultured than another, but historically ... thats another story.

Rather than 'more cultured' you mean older society then?

So in short your saying because an older society practised tatooing for ages it should be acceptable in a country the other side of the world?

in older cultures it was acceptable to kill & eat people you didn't like.

just 'cos other cultures did or do things does not authenticate or justify the actions of modern culture.
unless you are a yakuza member or from a ancient african tribe.

half the people i know who have tattoos cant spell yakuza and wouldnt know an african tribe if one cannibalised them.so they obviously didnt use that historical delicacy to prompt them to have a tattoo.

Just look at the Yakuza.They are all generally heavily tattooed with full body suits
And you point is? That the Yakuza are accepted upstanding members of society?

I've just spent ages pruning out 36 posts from last nights cat fight. Please don't do it again or there will be some bans being handed out.

Thanks.

it may be a class thing

Did you see my post about tattooed royalty ?

It is comforting for some to think that all people with tattoos are thick, lower class thugs but it's just not the case thesedays.

Did you see my post about tattooed royalty ?

It is comforting for some to think that all people with tattoos are thick, lower class thugs but it's just not the case thesedays.


No, I suppose if royalty are getting tatooed then they could also be thick. upper class, chinless wonders.

No, I suppose if royalty are getting tatooed then they could also be thick. upper class, chinless wonders.

rather that than old fashioned, narrow minded, self rightious, middle class knob.

rather that than old fashioned, narrow minded, self rightious, middle class knob.

Thats exactly what i was thinking.

It has absolutely nothing to do with class! :loopy:

rather that than old fashioned, narrow minded, self rightious, middle class knob.

I have never said that tattoos are anything to do with class, but the evidence presented that they aren't is rather weak. If a member of the Royal family has a tattoo (maybe 'by royal appointment' on her buttocks?) and someone off a council estate also has a tattoo then this doesn't mean that all the people in between also do. I would also remind you that this post was originally about a girl that had a huge colourful tattoo and complained she was discriminated against and not that perfectly ordinary people occasionally have small discreet tattoos.

I also note that someone pointed out that Churchill's mother had a tattoo on her wrist so this means that upper class Victorians also liked tattoos. This may well be the case but she is also a bad example of a typical upper class woman of the time. She was an American who married Churchills father exactly 7.5 months before Churchill was born. She went on to have a huge number of affairs (some sources claim 200), and Churchills brother was thought not to have been fathered by her husband. She was later remarried twice to men more than 20 years her junior. This isn't a critism of this remarkable woman, just a note that you can't easily use her as an example.

rather that than old fashioned, narrow minded, self rightious, middle class knob.

I was obviously wasting my time.

Closing.