Personally, owning one rescue dog and one bought from a breeder, my view is, if you can give a home to a rescue dog then do so, but I don't agree with these people that say breeders should be banned.

I couldn't own a rescue dog when I got Takara because of our cats. Now that they have watched Takara grow up from being tiny they are ready to accept another adult dog into the home and we have been able to rescue an 11 year old. Had we brought a large, adult dog into the home straight away, both cats would have upped and left!

It's all very well saying that if breeding was banned the situation in rescue centres would improve but it wouldn't because responsible KC registered breeders will take back any dog that they have sold (or should do) should the owner be unable to look after it, most do homechecks and keep in touch with the owner providing lifetime support and advice and they care about where their pups go.

If these people weren't allowed to breed puppy farms would start getting more business. Puppy farms don't take back unwanted dogs, they don't offer lifetime support and advice and they don't do homechecks. Often puppies from puppy farmers are unhealthy, have a bad temperament or are 'difficult' so the owners give them up and they end up in rescue centres.

Feel free to argue with me :D

Personaly i would not like to buy from a breeder, thoughi have nothing against the ones who really do take on the responsibility of the pups.
And i would never ever from a puppy farm, most of my animals are from rescues,
As the sayng goes "why buy while others die"

Hi! My family breeds dogs, rhodesian ridgebacks. My dad has done it ever since I can remember - as did his father and one day I hope to do it myself once I have my own home.

I must say, it is quite profitable and very rewarding both financially and in terms of joy gained from the practise.

There are cruel people (one story that we know off is of a puppy farmer who sells the pups whilst still within their mother. If then - the bitch has 10, but but only 4 have been purchased - then 6 die.) We found this appalling as did many of my fathers associates.

Whilst working with my dad I've met all sorts of people who do this job, - either as there profession or as a way of earning money on the side. Throughout the years I must say that each one of them - had at the least- a small element of love and admiration for the dogs. Whilst the majority genually loved the animals they kept.

I think many have a Cruella De-Ville complex about dog breeding - seriously, dog breeders are into creating more healthy dogs - than hurting them. It makes sense

Whilst working with my dad I've met all sorts of people who do this job, - either as there profession or as a way of earning money on the side. Throughout the years I must say that each one of them - had at the least- a small element of love and admiration for the dogs. Whilst the majority genually loved the animals they kept.

I think many have a Cruella De-Ville complex about dog breeding - seriously, dog breeders are into creating more healthy dogs - than hurting them. It makes sense
I know some breeders are very responsible and love their animals, the problem i have with it is that there are just so many unwanted animals, and a fair proportion of the pups once older will end up being sold on and a good few end up in shelters or even put to sleep.:|

Mickey Barnes,

What you say about financial gain concerns me. Pups should not be bred as an occupation or for financial reward. As I understand it (many breeders have told me and I've looked into doing it myself) the vets fees throughout the pregnancy and for the health tests etc. far outweigh the money you get for the pups unless you have an unusually large litter.

Secondly most responsible breeders will have a waiting list for their pups before they even mate the dam and sire and before they know that the dam has even taken. This is to ensure they have good homes waiting for the litter before they plan it.
Obviously culling the left over pups is wrong but 'taking orders' for pups before they're born certainly isn't imo!

Moonbird I totally understand what you're saying and agree to an extent. However - your last comment about the pups being sold on etc. I would be in big trouble with the breeder if I sold Takara or put her in a rescue. If I can't look after her in the future, it's in the contract I signed when I bought her that she must go back to the breeder. As long as you sign a contract to say this, there should be no concerns as to where your dog will go should you be unable to look after it.

PS. Micky Barnes - I love Rhodesian Ridgebacks they're beautiful dogs!

I don't have a problem with breeders with one exception. I hate the selective breeding that causes problems. For instance, Siamese cats used to be quite normally sized cats. Over years, they have been bred to have thinner bodies and as a result have developed digestive problems. They have also been bred with narrower longer faces and this has caused eating problems with their narrow jaws and worse, they have developed vision problems with over-slanted eyes. Similarly, I understand that dachshunds have such a long body that they develop back problems and I believe that there is a least one breed of dog with such droopy lower eyelids, that they are prone to fairly severe eye problems.

I think that selective breeding in the cause of so-called beauty which causes problems for the animal's health should not be allowed.

I got a cross collie pup from a rescue centre. She gets all the attention from anyone passing by... it's pointless encouraging breeders when wee gems like her are without a home.

I don't have a problem with breeders with one exception. I hate the selective breeding that causes problems. For instance, Siamese cats used to be quite normally sized cats. Over years, they have been bred to have thinner bodies and as a result have developed digestive problems. They have also been bred with narrower longer faces and this has caused eating problems with their narrow jaws and worse, they have developed vision problems with over-slanted eyes. Similarly, I understand that dachshunds have such a long body that they develop back problems and I believe that there is a least one breed of dog with such droopy lower eyelids, that they are prone to fairly severe eye problems.

I think that selective breeding in the cause of so-called beauty which causes problems for the animal's health should not be allowed.

Parcher - you'll be glad to know that most responsible breeders are trying to breed out the health problems now.
British Bulldogs are another one with huge health problems and now breeders should only be breeding the healthiest dogs together.

I'm lucky that my breed don't generally have many health problems. They are a hardy breed but they are prone to deafness and every dalmatian should be hearing tested and only bilaterally hearing dogs should be bred from.

I got a cross collie pup from a rescue centre. She gets all the attention from anyone passing by... it's pointless encouraging breeders when wee gems like her are without a home.

Yes - our rescue dog gets loads of fuss too. I won't repeat my other points though - so if you want my argument - look up to my previous posts.

Mickey Barnes,

What you say about financial gain concerns me. Pups should not be bred as an occupation or for financial reward. As I understand it (many breeders have told me and I've looked into doing it myself) the vets fees throughout the pregnancy and for the health tests etc. far outweigh the money you get for the pups unless you have an unusually large litter.

Secondly most responsible breeders will have a waiting list for their pups before they even mate the dam and sire and before they know that the dam has even taken. This is to ensure they have good homes waiting for the litter before they plan it.
Obviously culling the left over pups is wrong but 'taking orders' for pups before they're born certainly isn't imo!

Why can Pups not be sold as an occupation? - do you mean ethically or literary? - Ethically I see nothing wrong with breeding dogs - after all, what can be better than offering beautiful pets to responsible people. Financially, there is alot of money to be made from these animals- otherwise - Breeders wouldn't do it.

What are these vet's fees you talk off?! - You seem to know very little, other than this "research" that you have taken out. On the otherhand, I have a lot of experience and can assure you - that whilst there are certain times that vetinary assistance is needed, it is rare during the pregnancy, unless the bitch is slow in delivering the pups - that the Vet will be contacted. At the very least the vet is only contacted in order to give the pups there jabs.

You seem to have a limited knowledge of the facts, yet a wealth of judgemental opinion.


p.s
Of cause i wasn't suggesting taking order for pups - pre birth is wrong. it is a practice that we do ourselves - it was the culling that I disagreed with.

I disagree with breeding as there are a lot of unresponsible breeders out there, who do not think of the health and care of the dogs. I personally believe that if I want a dog, then rescue is the way, which we have done twice.

Mickey Barnes,



Moonbird I totally understand what you're saying and agree to an extent. However - your last comment about the pups being sold on etc. I would be in big trouble with the breeder if I sold Takara or put her in a rescue. If I can't look after her in the future, it's in the contract I signed when I bought her that she must go back to the breeder. As long as you sign a contract to say this, there should be no concerns as to where your dog will go should you be unable to look after it.
The thing is Lotti you went to a reputable and good breeder, many will never want to see the pups they breed again all they want is the money for them and goodbye, these are the same breeders who tend not to care about any genetic/temperament problems their dogs carry also.
Unfortunately there are all to many back yard breeders about, this is what i dissagree with.

well fortunately for me i can play in both camps.

all my dogs have always been cocker spaniels - i'm not even remotely interested in having any other breed,although i do like all animals.
my family have always owned shelties by the way.
all my dogs are pedigree dogs and all bar one, have been rescue dogs.

i've had one male - rta victim,owner couldnt fund the surgery for leg & hip surgery.rehomed @ ? age,but prob2-3yrs
one bitch - sold by breeder because she hadnt had a season by 18months and was therefore costing them money.rehomed @ 18 months
number 2 bitch 4 litters by 4 years old - and getting passed her best.rehomed @ 4.
number 3 bitch - serious dislike to being raped by male dogs for breeding.rehomed @4.
number 2 male - not 100% physical appearance.(hips) we think rehomed @ 8 months to us.
in that time i have also helped rehome at least 5 other cockers and loads of springers.all from "breeders" and via the KC registered clubs.

I know this thread is mainly dog related but I thought I would add my cat related opinion on breeders.

I personally rescue cats and I can't see me paying for a pedigree cat whilst there are still shelters open with rescue cats who need good homes.

That said I'm not against people who are good breeders and who are responsible for all the animals they breed for life, as a truly responsible breeder will not add to numbers to the shelter animals, as they will take back any no longer wanted cats and do the rehoming themselves. Plus they will enforce the altering clause in the 'pet only' cat contracts hence reducing the likehood of unsuitable cats being bred from.

The people that make me so cross are those who breed on purpose or 'by accident' non pedigree animals of dubious genetic backgrounds and sell them/give them away with no long term plan if these animals end up in unsuitable homes.

Here is my list for telling the difference between a responsible and a 'back yard' breeders. (draft webpage)
http://www.whyneuter.com/breeders.html

PIF - it's for any animal really :D it's just that dog people answered! Yes, forgot to say that I have to get permission from my dog's breeder if I was to want to breed her (which I don't).

Moonbird - yes, I know that is the problem, so many people don't look into it and educate themselves before going to get a puppy or a kitten and then they end up in rescues because they didn't go to the right place. It's something that seems impossible to rectify.

Mickey Barnes - my post was not supposed to sound as judgemental as you took it, and I apologise for that. I worried because you claimed that it was very rewarding financially and I didn’t want people to be getting the wrong impression!

I appreciate that you have the first hand experience that I don’t, however I will try to back up what I’m saying.

Okay - here's why I think it's wrong to do it as a job - my opinion, nothing else:

A bitch should only be mated 3 times by Kennel Club rules (I'm sorry if I have this wrong), she should also be given a break, so imo, not mated the season after she has had pups, this limits the amount of pups you can produce unless you have more bitches.

You should only keep the amount of dogs that you know you can give each one a good deal of undivided attention each day - therefore a large number of dogs should not be kept - so limits the amount of bitches you can keep to breed.

Most breeders will breed a litter to help to improve the breed, continue their lines, if they have lots of demand for pups or if they want a pup for themselves. Not to make money.

If you take into consideration the costs before you even get to the stage of selling pups, then I can’t really see how it’s financially rewarding overall:

Buy a bitch and a dog puppy
Rear and keep for up to 15 years each.
Pay the vets fees for up to 15 years.
Work or show the pair to prove they are of good quality.
Do the necessary tests and find they are OK
Spend many years learning about the breed
Breed 3 litters during the bitch’s breeding life in most cases 2 to 8.
No profit.

Buy a bitch and a dog puppy
Rear and keep for up to 15 years each.
Pay the vets fees for up to 15 years.
Work or show the pair to prove they are of good quality.
Do the necessary tests and find they make the dogs unsuitable for breeding
Buy in another bitch from another source.
Rear and keep for up to 15 years
Pay the vets fees for up to 15 years.
Work or show to prove she is of good quality.
Do the necessary tests and find if she is OK
Spend many years learning about the breed
Breed 3 litters during the bitch’s breeding life in most cases 2 to 8.
Research the Stud dog and pay the fees
No profit

Unless you’re just extremely lucky and have never had a bitch or dog that wasn’t suitable for breeding…

Also – this is a list of costs that a friend of mine who is a breeder sent me recently when she bred a litter and these were the costs she incurred:
£600 c section
£600 stud fee's
£500 poorly pup vet bill
£300 mums vets check ups
£100 kennel club registration
£220 croft freedom pens
£60 vet bedding
£60 extra heater
£160 pups check ups and some vacs
£100 easily on pups food and milk

This is a list of things to think about when breeding and what will cost money (I didn’t write this – got it from a website):
* Costly health tests prior to mating.
* Stud fee.
* Proper nutrition for the pregnant bitch.
* Whelping equipment.
* Vet checks to ensure that the pregnancy is developing normally and that the pups are viable.
* Time off work so that your bitch is not alone just prior to the birth and so that you are there to help take care of the puppies for a few weeks afterwards. If your bitch dies during or after whelping then you will have to be with the pups full-time to hand-feed and stimulate their bodily functions until they are weaned.
* Milk replacement for orphan pups, or if the bitch has no milk or refuses to feed the pups, is expensive, especially for a large litter.
* Funds set aside for medical emergencies such as a C-section.
* A high quality diet after whelping to enable the bitch to feed the pups properly.
* Weaning food.
* Food for weaned, fast-growing, pups.
* Vaccinations.
* Worming.
* Routine vet checks on the health of the pups and the dam.
* Tails docked and/or dew claws removed if these are a breed requirement.
* Cleaning materials.
* Advertising when the promised homes fail to materialize.
* Registration and other paperwork.
* Sufficient financial resources, or insurance, in order that you can cover any court imposed costs should one of your pups develop what might be considered a ‘fault’ under the Sale of Goods Act and the owners decide to take you to court to recover their veterinary expenses plus a little something for their own pain and suffering.

So the vets fees that I was talking about that you seem to know nothing about were the checks to ensure the pregnancy is developing properly.

Also putting aside enough money should anything go wrong.

So where exactly do you make your money??

i dont dispute your friends claims lotti.
but we had an accident with 2 of our rescued cockers,this led to a litter of 4 pups.
we sold 3 of them for well below market price to get good homes - we still see 2 of the dogs every week & get christmas cards etc off the third one.
it actually cost me nothing.

there was one fee involved to kc register one of the bitches - but as this provides free insurance for 6 weeks the cost was really minimal.
the dog gave birth on a sofa in the conservatory which they used as a bed.
my wife didn't want them docking,and none of them required a visit to the
vet.
the bitch had a visit and check up but she was due for booster jabs so no real cost.

as for the list of things to do and buy -imho most of its a load of tosh.
my dogs are fed complete food,with chicken mince or tripe mince,they all have cereal & milk daily.
you have to feed the pups & dogs anyway so the "different" foods cost is minimal.

as for all the extra pens/cages etc thats fine if you keep them outside in pens/sheds etc along with heaters ,but if they're home reared the real cost is nominal.

So where exactly do you make your money??
A responsible breeder does not make any money by breeding and it might even cost money. They do it to improve the breed and for the love of the animals.


the dog gave birth on a sofa in the conservatory which they used as a bed.
my wife didn't want them docking,and none of them required a visit to the
vet.
What about the essential puppy vaccinations and blood tests plus future costs of altering, did the new owners take on that financial responsibility for your puppies !?! As in the case of professional breeders these costs are taken on by the breeder, so that would be an additional £60 to £80 per puppy minimum. That would have cost you a lot if you had to find that money.

With respect you were very lucky that your accidental litter, didn't cost you any money. Had your bitch required emergency surgery due to any birth complications, you might of faced a massive vet bill up to a couple of grand in the worst case scenerio. With responsible breeders who breed of a regular basis, they eventually will encounter these problems which is where the cost comes in.

Plus pregnant and nursing cats/dogs do require special food, if they don't get it it can cause calicum/bone problems in later life for the mothers especially if they are breed again, plus the babies might not get enough mothers milk or the mothers milk might be lacking in some areas.

I am pleased your bitch had no complications and that you found good homes for the puppies and I hope your bitch is altered now, as a second accidental litter might not be as cheap as the first one luckily was.

A responsible breeder does not make any money by breeding and it might even cost money. They do it to improve the breed and for the love of the animals.


What about the essential puppy vaccinations and blood tests plus future costs of altering, did the new owners take on that financial responsibility for your puppies !?! As in the case of professional breeders these costs are taken on by the breeder, so that would be an additional £60 to £80 per puppy minimum. That would have cost you a lot if you had to find that money.

With respect you were very lucky that your accidental litter, didn't cost you any money. Had your bitch required emergency surgery due to any birth complications, you might of faced a massive vet bill up to a couple of grand in the worst case scenerio. With responsible breeders who breed of a regular basis, they eventually will encounter these problems which is where the cost comes in.

Plus pregnant and nursing cats/dogs do require special food, if they don't get it it can cause calicum/bone problems in later life for the mothers especially if they are breed again, plus the babies might not get enough mothers milk or the mothers milk might be lacking in some areas.

I am pleased your bitch had no complications and that you found good homes for the puppies and I hope your bitch is altered now, as a second accidental litter might not be as cheap as the first one luckily was.


in all my dealings with breeeders & the cocker spaniel rescue and springer resuce i have never yet met a breeder who vaccinates the pups free of charge before they are sold.if they do vaccinate them its usually within the extortionate prices of £400-500 that they charge. or £1500 for a chihuahua!!!
similarly i have yet to meet a breeder who was purely trying to improve the breed - if that was the case,they'd give the pups away.
if they loved the animals they wouldnt be locked outside in sheds or pens or kept in cages - those things are a necessity for the breeder/owner not the dog.
having complications due to pregnancy is not isolated, i had to pay for emergency surgery for a bitch with a womb infection,surely thats the cost of dog ownership not just breeding.

my bitch would have been "altered" earlier if the breeder who dumped the male pup on us hadn't advised us that he wouldnt be "active" for another few months.
consequently he was done immediately.

i do have to say aswell that some of the prices posted for vet work would have me looking for a new vet.

i'm not having a go @ PIF ,but i do have a dislike for the reputation of many breeders & i haven't met one living in poverty yet.

i'm not having a go @ PIF ,but i do have a dislike for the reputation of many breeders & i haven't met one living in poverty yet.
No problem, I think we do agree in general about bad breeders. I like yourself, believe in rescuing animals where possible my husband and I have rescued and/or adopted many rescue cats, we also have tamed and rehomed several feral kittens so I do walk the walk as such. I am anti- bad or irresponsible breeders.

The vet costs sadly are realistic, we had to pay £60 to vaccinate a couple of our feral cats with yearly boosters cost of £30. That is the full vaccination including the optional Leukimea bit.

I only know about cat breeders and with cats, good breeders always vaccinate before they rehome kittens, it sounds like dog breeders are getting away with very bad practices. This comment is not aimed at you, if you adopt from a private home, it is different as the new owner expects to pay for vaccinations altering etc.

Willman,

A lot of the people I know do not breed for the money, and they take a genuine interest in the breed. They like to show their dogs and they like to keep a good line going.

As far as the vaccination goes, I had to get Takara vaccinated myself but I do know a lot of people who sell pups already vaccinated and their pups cost no more than other pups.

The difference is - you had an accidental litter, you allowed your bitch to whelp on your sofa, which some bitches wouldn't do, granted a lot would.
You are not breeding your bitch again, any bitch that is bred from 3 times (they shouldn't be bred from more than that) would need the extra calcium etc to keep her going.

The reason I choose not to breed Takara is because should I let her have pups I would want to do everything possible to ensure the health of the mother and pups. I wouldn't see any of the things I've posted as 'a load of tosh' because I wouldn't forgive myself if I had been wrong and it was needed.

I'm afraid I don't believe that it's right to breed for profit. If you breed and happen to make a profit without cutting corners then great stuff - I have nothing against that. I think for the work that goes into breeding, breeder deserve it if they make a bit, but I don't believe that anyone should breed for the profit and certainly not for a living.

My point is, in order to make a living out of it, I'd have thought you'd really need to be doing it big time.

Willman,

.

My point is, in order to make a living out of it, I'd have thought you'd really need to be doing it big time.


or not as nicely as we like to think.
but i think we agree on that part.

or not as nicely as we like to think.
but i think we agree on that part.

yes, or cutting corners!

We obviously do agree on that part.

Something I forgot to mention - your's was an accidental litter therefore you didn't have to pay for all the costly health checks on dam and sire and pay stud fees prior to mating! I think that's where a lot of the cost comes in.

Anyway - that was my main point - that I don't know anyone who makes 'a living' from it!

yes, or cutting corners!

We obviously do agree on that part.

Something I forgot to mention - your's was an accidental litter therefore you didn't have to pay for all the costly health checks on dam and sire and pay stud fees prior to mating! I think that's where a lot of the cost comes in.

Anyway - that was my main point - that I don't know anyone who makes 'a living' from it!


no your right, we obviously owned both animals which we knew were sound & medically ok and we had all kc papers as well.
i do know several breeders who do breed from home,and with 4 or 5 bitches can make a decent amount of money.i dont think it would buy a porsche - but it means they dont have to go to work.

pedigree dogs for me every time, but always rescued or unwanted ones.

We had a rescue dog placed with us before we hadour current dog. She was a fantastic dog who was very much loved.

Unfortunatly nothing was known about her background and I think the rescue made a mistake placing her with us.

It all came to a very sticky end because she bit someone and we had to let her go (due to the fact that we have a small child we couldn't risk keeping her).

After this heartbreak we decided that the safest thing for our family would be to get a labrador pup. Labrador's are well known for their gentle natures and are considered to be ideal family dogs. Although there are no guarentee's you're off to a good start. We decided on a pup because we thought that if a dog grew up with a family it would be an even safer guess that the dog would cope well in a family environment.

When we were looking for a pup one of the rescue centre's had some cross labrador puppies available, however our experience with the previous rescue centre (who made us jump through hoops to get our first dog) made us very wary of starting the whole process again, so we decide it was worth the few hundred extra quid to just go to a breeder for a pup.

I think it's all very well to suggest that we should all take rescue dogs, but at the end of the day, those in charge of the home checks don't always do a great job in placing rescue dogs.

I have to say i have no problem with breeders but i do hate puppy farms. a friend of mine bought a yellow lab pup from one n they actually said to him if the puppy dies within the week we'll give you a refund. His puppy did actually die, and i know theres the odd few that may have health problems but you dont expect a breeder to say that and have it actually happen. I think rehoming animals is a good thing cos theres so many nice dogs in those places i worked at the RSPCA in chesterfield for 3 weeks during my work placement for college and i think if you can rehome an animal you should and im not just talking about dogs and cats, they have rabbits, guinea pigs, budgies and even goats that all need homes.

Personally, owning one rescue dog and one bought from a breeder, my view is, if you can give a home to a rescue dog then do so, but I don't agree with these people that say breeders should be banned.

I couldn't own a rescue dog when I got Takara because of our cats. Now that they have watched Takara grow up from being tiny they are ready to accept another adult dog into the home and we have been able to rescue an 11 year old. Had we brought a large, adult dog into the home straight away, both cats would have upped and left!

It's all very well saying that if breeding was banned the situation in rescue centres would improve but it wouldn't because responsible KC registered breeders will take back any dog that they have sold (or should do) should the owner be unable to look after it, most do homechecks and keep in touch with the owner providing lifetime support and advice and they care about where their pups go.

If these people weren't allowed to breed puppy farms would start getting more business. Puppy farms don't take back unwanted dogs, they don't offer lifetime support and advice and they don't do homechecks. Often puppies from puppy farmers are unhealthy, have a bad temperament or are 'difficult' so the owners give them up and they end up in rescue centres.

Feel free to argue with me :D

I am a breeder. I breed siberian huskies, and agree with all those points. not one of the easiest breeds to care for, anyone wanting a pup from me is rigerously vetted and signs a contract stating among other things, they MUST bring the dog back to me if they can no longer care for it. support is lifelong and im in touch with most of the people who have a pup from here, in fact some of them have become firm friends. The puppy farm debate is one that provoked many an emotive response on our breed forum. temperament and genetic problems in the breed are a big problem from these sources.
wether to own a pup or a rescue is a very personal issue. I have friends who have taken in rescues and done great with them, i myself am not in a position, with young children, to take in a rescue of unknown quantities, though my door is always open to any dog we bred (to date, we have only had to rehome one who is now very happy in her new home).

Thanks for your input bluesandtwos,

Unfortunately, as many breeders as there are like you, people will still go to places that are cheaper, and easier to get a pup from (ie, don't vet people like you do) and people who don't do their research won't necessarily end up in such good hands as you.

We need more breeders like you!

Also, just some of the points I've just re-read and hadn't commented on... on the point of breeders not needing to work due to the money they make, the breeders of my pups both work and they get family to help out with the pups when they have to work.

Many breeders will keep their dogs outside in kennels (not because they don't care about them, they still spend lots of time with them and the kennels are heated) it is puppy farmers who keep them in kennels and cages and don't see them.

However - cages for pups are a very good idea and prevent pups from hurting themselves when someone is not around (it's physically impossible to be around 24/7) as well as helping a lot in training so don't always look at a cage and think the person can't care about their dog. As long as the cage is used properly, dogs love them!

Although not off subject this reply concerns a smaller furry friend. I am in the middle of rehoming my baby rabbits but i am not a 'breeder' in that i am not attempting to breed mass amounts of rabbits for financial gain or to improve a breed standard. I guess what it comes down to is that i love my animals, they have excellent temperments, gorgeous appearences and are free from health problems, so i decided to breed from them. I was also prepared to keep any animal i could not find a responsible home and indeed am keeping one anyway. I also operate a contract of return as mentioned earlier.

Does this make me an irresponsible person?

Although not off subject this reply concerns a smaller furry friend. I am in the middle of rehoming my baby rabbits but i am not a 'breeder' in that i am not attempting to breed mass amounts of rabbits for financial gain or to improve a breed standard. I guess what it comes down to is that i love my animals, they have excellent temperments, gorgeous appearences and are free from health problems, so i decided to breed from them. I was also prepared to keep any animal i could not find a responsible home and indeed am keeping one anyway. I also operate a contract of return as mentioned earlier.

Does this make me an irresponsible person?
You are obviously well intentioned and doing your very best to make sure it all turns out well, that is a very good and responsible thing.....but sooz there are many unwanted rabbits in rescues, and many long forgotten pets in hutches Languishing away at the bottom of many a garden, thats all :)

there are many unwanted rabbits in rescues, and many long forgotten pets in hutches Languishing away at the bottom of many a garden, thats all :)

Indeed there are :(

Having been involved with rabbit rescue I can vouch for this and at this time of year as the night draw in more rabbits will endup up in rescues or worst...

Well its a long way to the bottom of the garden and its dark/wet/inconvenient etc. etc. I've heard most of the excuses, indeed I've been blackmailed on the phone " we are going away on holiday on Saturday if you don't take it, then it will starve as noone will feed it" or "we will let it out on the fields to fend for itself" etc. etc.

Sad but true :( We don't need more rabbits

Grinder

Then perhaps the problem is not so much the Rabbits but the people that are allowed to have them. A more responsible approach to rehoming on behalf of the breeders would endevour to ensure that Rabbits are being given to good homes not "my kids have been nagging me for one", "It would make a change from a easter egg"...etc.

As i have said before my two little bunnies are being rehomed with people who have been vetted and who will sign a contract of return upon collection. Now if only it became a legal requirement (it should certainly be an ethical one) it sure see's off those less than capable of caring for such a deserving creature.

We were only allowed to purchase Brude after his breeder gave us a thorough going over as to all the down sides of beagle ownership, and grilled us about why we wanted a dog.

It was the second time we'd made enquiries - she'd previously refused to let us have a pup whilst we were both working - although I was only part-time :)