A few years ago I did my jury service in Sheffield and was in the unfortunate position of being on a case where a driver, very much under the influence, had knocked down and killed a pedestrian. It was a most traumatic experience and when it was over I just walked through town to catch my bus home and cried.

I won't go in to details but seeing as though 'punishment and penalties' have been discussed of late I thought I should tell you the outcome. The jury found the person on trial guilty (and please don't say 'well obviously' because if you have done jury service you will know that the procedure of convicting someone of a crime is not that simple and straightforward.) It was a difficult decision to make. S/he was given a sentence of 6 years with the possibility to appeal in no fewer than 4 years. I was shocked to learn, then, that this person served 3 years and is now out of prison.

For the benefit of my friend Killian, I think that our sentencing procedures are a joke. What say ye ?

i could be wrong, but i think that the sentences for causing death by dangerous driving and driving under the influence have all been increased in the last year or two.

I can understand your disquiet at the outcome, but your job as a jury was completed satisfactorily, sentencing and prison terms are another matter.
At the present, motoring matters do not take into account the outcome of the event, this is being looked at in an effort to rectify it, but quite clearly, the jury system worked in this case, and worked well. The issue of releasing prisoners on licence after serving half their term is purely the government trying to save money, it will carry on reducing the publics confidence in the criminal justice system untill it is altered, although, don't hold your breath!

haven't prisoners been parolled after half their sentence for good behaviour for quite a long time?

The reason I posted this is because of the DP thread which has been discussed recently. Certain forum members seem to believe (I think) that the punishment of the criminal will provide compensation for the death of their loved one. I just wondered (and was dangling the bait) if they felt the same in a case like this. In their opinion should that person have served the full sentence so that the victim's family can feel satisfied and fully 'supported' by our justice system ?

justice is not supposed to be about revenge. It's punishment, deterrant and reform.

I totally agree with you. Just trying to get Killian and Mikosavi in here (hee hee) I do, however, think it pointless to give out sentences which they know will never be served. Why not just give a lesser sentence and make them serve it to the full. That way, the victims families will at least find some acceptance in the fact that they served their time.

they are not automatically released though, only for good behaviour and evidence of remorse. So your alternative would either need an extra punishment for people who did not show these things, or it wouldn't reward them at all (which we want it to do, that's part of the reform process).

In the case of deaths, hit and run drivers who are drunk should be charged with murder (like the guy that killed 3 cyclists in Northumberland 2 years ago) and serve 12 years at least.
Drunks should be charged with manslaughter and get 6 years
Hit and run drivers should get 8-9 years for manslaughter

The reason drink drivers get such lenient sentences is because all the judges do it :loopy:

Originally posted by Abdul
The reason drink drivers get such lenient sentences is because all the judges do it :loopy:

huh?

Judges drink drive. A lot. So they can hardly impose stiff sentences for something they'll very likely get caught doing.

evidence of this or is it just wild supposition?

Just from what I've been told by some journalists in the know.

And look at drink drive sentences where the drunk has killed someone - they are especially lenient compared to (say) clubbing someone over the head and killing them that way.

I still remember that nice man Judge Pickles on TV many years ago saying he didn't approve of drink/drive sentences being too harsh - because locking someone up for 5 years could harm them.

aren't judges in the same boat as solicitors? One conviction on a criminal charge and the career goes down the swanny?

If i'm right on that, and you're right in what you are saying, you must be talking about ex-judges.

Fair point spook. I got carried away with the word 'club' because I've been playing a little Splinter Cell recently, and the option to neutralise your opponents by whacking them on the back of the head as opposed to taxing them with a bullet is...interesting. Sorry about that.

Anyway, back to the point. In cases where drunk drivers have killed people, a sentence of three years is no deterrent at all. After all, the end result is the same (ie, you've just killed an innocent person)

Just three years for killing my dad (http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100localnews/tm_objectid=14126000&method=full&siteid=50002&headline=just-three-years-for-killing-my-dad-name_page.html)

How to get away with manslaughter (http://www.iankitching.me.uk/articles/death-driving.html)

got sent this in an e-mail and although i'd never normally cut and paste a forwarded e-mail or even bother to read it, i read this and it struck a cord and made me think

(MODS Read final paragraph)



I went to a party, And remembered what you said. You told me not to drink, Mum, So I had a sprite instead.

I felt proud of myself,The way you said I would, That I didn't drink and drive, Though some friends said I should.

I made a healthy choice, And your advice to me was right, The party finally ended, And the kids drove out of sight.

I got into my car, Sure to get home in one piece, I never knew what was coming, Mum, Something I expected least.

Now I'm lying on the pavement, And I hear the policeman say, The kid that caused this wreck was drunk.
Mum, his voice seems far away.

My own blood's all around me, As I try hard not to
cry.
I can hear the paramedic say, This girl is going to die.

I'm sure the guy had no idea, While he was flying high, Because he chose to drink and drive,Now I would have to die.

So why do people do it, Mum, Knowing
that it ruins lives?
And now the pain is cutting me, Like a hundred stabbing knives.

Tell sister not to be afraid, Mum, Tell daddy to be brave,
And when I go to heaven, Put Daddy's Girl on my grave.

Someone should have taught him,
That it's wrong to drink and drive.
Maybe if his parents had, I'd still be alive.

My breath is getting shorter, Mum
I'm getting really scared.

These are my final moments,
And I'm so unprepared.

I wish that you could hold me Mum,
As I lie here and die.

I wish that I could say,

"I love you, Mum"

So
I love you

and

good-bye.



MODS - there's a thread called 'Death by drunk driving' but i can't seem to paste this poem in there (as i searched for the topic after i'd written this) so feel free to merge this into that thread. ta

I think that would strike a cord with most people - certainly did with me.

Originally posted by Bedhead
MODS - there's a thread called 'Death by drunk driving' but i can't seem to paste this poem in there (as i searched for the topic after i'd written this) so feel free to merge this into that thread. ta
Done.

I went to a party,
And remembered what you said.
You told me not to drink, Mum
So I had a sprite instead.
I felt proud of myself,
The way you said I would,
That I didn't drink and drive,
Though some friends said I should.
I made a healthy choice,
And your advice to me was right,
The party finally ended,
And the kids drove out of sight.
I got into my car,
Sure to get home in one piece,
I never knew what was coming, Mum
Something I expected least.
Now I'm lying on the pavement,
And I hear the policeman say,
The kid that caused this wreck was drunk, Mum, his voice seems far away.
My own blood's all around me,
As I try hard not to cry.
I can hear the paramedic say,
This girl is going to die.
I'm sure the guy had no idea,
While he was flying high,
Because he chose to drink and drive,
Now I would have to die.
So why do people do it, Mum
Knowing that it ruins lives?
And no when the pain is cutting me,
Like a hundred stabbing knives.
Tell sister not to be afraid, Mum
Tell daddy to be brave,
And when I go to heaven,
Put "Daddy's Girl" on my grave.
Someone should have taught him,
That it's wrong to drink and drive.
Maybe if his parents had,
I'd still be alive.
My breath is getting shorter, Mum
I'm getting really scared.
These are my final moments,
And I'm so unprepared.
I wish that you could hold me Mum,
As I lie here and die.
I wish that I could say, "I love you, Mum!"
So I love you and good-bye.

x x msnutty x x

That's been done here (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?postid=119857#post119857)

Can we get a merge please Mods?

K x

Oh dear.

By signing that at the bottom, with your ID msnutty, we now have to find you guilty of "plagiarism of the third degree".

You are hereby sentenced to 3 months of 'zero txtspk' concurrent with service in the Ranger Guides and no contact with those naughty Explorer Scouts!!!!

:heyhey: :heyhey:

was tht meant to be funny?!?!i didnt no sum1 else had wrote it.

u heartless person. only wanted 2 share a touching poem!!! how do u quit this forum coz i jst get slated everytime i write sumthing? SO I QUIT.

GOODBYE!!!!!!

Don't be like that MsNutty; lighten up, and have a laugh! :P

K x

I don't think that the subject is any laughing matter. This is a very poignant poem and if only one person heeds the warning it creates then it is worthwhile regardless of who wrote it.

Originally posted by Magneteer
I don't think that the subject is any laughing matter. This is a very poignant poem and if only one person heeds the warning it creates then it is worthwhile regardless of who wrote it.

Yes. Very true. That's why we suggested you go here (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?postid=119857#post119857) instead! :huh:

K x

Threads merged.

I have another story...

Jenny was so happy about the house they had found. For once in her life 'twas on the right side of town. She unpacked her things with such great ease. As she watched her new curtains blow in the breeze. How wonderful it was to have her own room. School would be starting; she'd have friends over soon. There'd be sleep-overs, and parties; she was so happy It's just the way she wanted her life to be. On the first day of school, everything went great. She made new friends and even got a date! She thought, "I want to be popular and I'm going to be, Because I just got a date with the star of the team!" To be known in this school you had to have clout, And dating this guy would sure help her out. There was only one problem stopping her fate. Her parents had said she was too young to date. "Well I just won't tell them the entire truth. They won't know the difference; what's there to lose?" Jenny asked to stay with her friends that night. Her parents frowned but said, "All right." Excited, she got ready for the big event But as she rushed around like she had no sense, She began to feel guilty about all the lies, But what's a pizza, a party, and a moonlight ride? Well the pizza was good, and the party was great, But the moonlight ride would have to wait. For Dan was half drunk by this time. But he kissed her and said that he was just fine. Then the room filled with smoked and Dan took a puff. Jenny couldn't believe he was smoking that stuff. Now Dan was ready to ride to the point But only after he'd smoked another joint. They jumped in the car for the moonlight ride, Not thinking that he was too drunk to drive. They finally made it to the point at last, And Dan started trying to make a pass. A pass is not what Jenny wanted at all. "Perhaps my parents were right....maybe I am too young. Boy, how could I ever, ever be so dumb." With all of her might, she pushed Dan away: "Please take me home, I don't want to stay." Dan cranked up the engine and floored the gas. In a matter of seconds they were going too fast. As Dan drove on in a fit of wild anger, Jenny knew that her life was in danger. She begged and pleaded for him to slow down, But he just got faster as they neared the town. "Just let me get home! I'll confess that I lied. I really went out for a moonlight ride." Then all of a sudden, she saw a big flash. "Oh God, Please help us! We're going to crash!" She doesn't remember the force of impact. Just that everything all of a sudden went black. She felt someone remove her from the twisted rubble, And heard, "call an ambulance! These kids are in trouble! Voices she heard...a few words at best. But she knew there were two cars involved in the wreck. Then wondered to herself if Dan was all right, And if the people in the other car was alive. She awoke in the hospital to faces so sad. "You've been in a wreck and it looks pretty bad." These voices echoed inside her head, As they gently told her that Dan was dead. They said "Jenny, we've done all we can do. But it looks as if we'll lose you too." "But the people in the other car!?" Jenny cried. "We're sorry, Jenny, they also died." Jenny prayed, "God, forgive me for what I've done I only wanted to have just one night of fun." "Tell those people's family, I've made their lives dim, And wish I could return their families to them." "Tell Mom and Dad I'm sorry I lied, And that it's my fault so many have died. Oh, nurse, won't you please tell them that for me?" The nurse just stood there-she never agreed. But took Jenny's hand with tears in her eyes. And a few moments later Jenny died. "Why didn't you do your best To bid that girl her one last request?" She looked at the man with eyes so sad. "Because the people in the other car were her mom and dad." This story is sad and unpleasant but true, So young people take heed, it could have been you.

x x msnutty x x

Originally posted by msnutty
I have another story...

Jenny was so happy about the house they had found... [snip]... it could have been you.

x x msnutty x x

I can't believe people have the time to write the drivel like this. And I love the hidden message; if you have fun or lie to your parents, you're all gonna die! :huh:

K x

Originally posted by Kristian
....you're all gonna die!


The only certanty in life;) .

The criminal justice system here requires a major overhaul.

In a fairly recent case (not local), a guy was convicted of murdering a teenage girl. He then did everything possible to cover his tracks in his disposal of her body and that of her unborn child (use your imagination I'm not going to go into detail), and was not caught for several months. He had a prior history of violence (attempted murder), never made any kind of admission of guilt and is fairly young. He received a life sentence but will serve around 7 and a half years. With his prior history he is more than capable of repeating his offence.

Just to demonstrate that with the current system 3 years does not seem like a lot but is proportional to sentences that some get for intentionally killing someone. Which is why something really needs to be sorted out. Many sentences are also directly proportional to the amount of publicity a case has received.