Think carefully now

Tut.. it drives me mad all this philosophy stuff. One of the questions at a test i took to get into mensa was: a man had found out he had loast a lot of money and decided to commit suicide, he was walking to the bridge to do it but he didnt go through with it. why? it made me very angry that question - how am I supposed to know? Surely there isnt a right or wrong answer - but there had to be! Thinking too hard can be very troublesome.

True - the statement is false!

If it wasn't true that the statement is false, then it would be false that the statement is false - in which case, it would be true... (so it must be true... no?)

Comprendez? :wow:

This statement is false.

it has to be false, because otherwise it'd be a question

Originally posted by "RPG"

This statement is false.

it has to be false, because otherwise it'd be a question

So, you answer is true, surely?

"True: This statement is false."

i) It can't be a question because it's no question mark.
ii) It wouldn't have to be a question anyway - it could just be a lie!

but to be a statement it has to be false

my brainsssss :cry:

The question is:

"This statment is false. True or false?"

... and not ...

"This statment is false. Is the statement true or false?"

So your answer is "True: the statment is false" ... init? :?

It a paradox, it neither true nor false.

Where do I vote?

I'm with John on this one now... :lol:

if you think stuff like this is interesting, and goes beyond mere word play, then have a look at Gödel - Escher - Bach, an Eternal Golden Braid, by Douglas Hofstadter.(From Amazon (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0140289208/ref=sr_aps_books_1_1/026-9612443-5322067).

It turns out that self reference is more than just a source of wordplay, and actually reflects an underlying, yet very difficult to describe, property of the universe.

For the record, the statement cannot be evaluated using formal logic. This is a problem with formal logic, and that stretches to mathematics too. The statement flip flops between true and false in your head if you try to use logic to evaluate it.

A cheat: Linguistically it could be true or false if 'false' was the identifying name of a statement.

If the statement we called "false" contained the words "this statement is false" then the statement, "this statement is false" would be true.

Equally, if the statement we called "TestStatement_A" contained the words "this statement is TestStatement_A" then the statement, "this statement is TestStatement_A" would be true.

Kurt Gödel, of the book's title, was a mathematician who proved, mathematically, that maths is fundamentally flawed however useful it may be.

Did you know that there are eleven words in this sentence?

Just thought I'd match redrobbo in resurrected long gone threads, as all the new ones are rubbish.

Any further thoughts on the place of paradoxes in the universe anyone?

Hmmmm, no but having found out that there is no 42 in the thread IDs, I found this (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?postid=42#post42)
Which has no relevance to anything at all

If you believe that all new threads are rubbish isn't resurrecting an old good one rather than starting a new good one a bit of a paradox Phan?

Originally posted by Tony
If you believe that all new threads are rubbish isn't resurrecting an old good one rather than starting a new good one a bit of a paradox Phan?

It'd be a paradox of sorts if he had said all new ones were rubbish and then started a new one!

The answer (true, false) is context dependent on your level of abstraction.

And if (as a human being) you are not operating at any level of abstraction, then the answer is the question is you is everything is nothing and there is no seperation ... and get ready to pop and vanish from this world forever in a puff of purple smoke.

God I would make a crap philosopher ... my mind is way too lazy to think at times ...

Aha, so whatever phan does, he's unable to reconcile himself from this inescapable paradox?

Originally posted by Strix
Hmmmm, no but having found out that there is no 42 in the thread IDs, I found this (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?postid=42#post42)
Which has no relevance to anything at all

Except for making me wonder why my blue bin only collects paper, when this guy's one also sorts glass and plastics!

there's a vaguely relevant lateral thinking puzzle I know:

An explorer was captured by a tribe whose chief decided the man should die. The chief was a very logical man and gave the explorer a choice. The explorer was to make a single statement. If it was true, he would be thrown over a high cliff. If it was false, he would be eaten by lions. What statement did the explorer make that forced the chief to let him go?

(NB:-you can use either the one on the poll or another one - try and work out the other one!)

Originally posted by noseyrosie
there's a vaguely relevant lateral thinking puzzle I know:

An explorer was captured by a tribe whose chief decided the man should die. The chief was a very logical man and gave the explorer a choice. The explorer was to make a single statement. If it was true, he would be thrown over a high cliff. If it was false, he would be eaten by lions. What statement did the explorer make that forced the chief to let him go?

(NB:-you can use either the one on the poll or another one - try and work out the other one!)

You will now feed me to the lions.

Originally posted by Jamie
You will now feed me to the lions.

Indeed! It's in the easyish section of this book. I bought it years ago and just found it again and it's rather marvellous!

Want another (harder) one? Am I sidetracking...?

Originally posted by noseyrosie
Indeed! It's in the easyish section of this book. I bought it years ago and just found it again and it's rather marvellous!

Want another (harder) one? Am I sidetracking...?

Yeah, maybe an idea to start a new thread tho?

:)

Nah, posted this a while ago - got one correct reply, but can't find the thread.

You have 12 identical spheres and a a pair of balancing scales.

One of the spheres is actually not identical but is either slightly heavier or lighter than the others; you do not know which, and you can't tell by lifting them in your hand.

You must now find the 'rogue' sphere and tell me whether it is heavier or lighter, using the scales.

You are permitted three individual measurements on the scales, after which you must give your answer.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
Nah, posted this a while ago - got one correct reply, but can't find the thread.

You have 12 identical spheres and a a pair of balancing scales.

One of the spheres is actually not identical but is either slightly heavier or lighter than the others; you do not know which, and you can't tell by lifting them in your hand.

You must now find the 'rogue' sphere and tell me whether it is heavier or lighter, using the scales.

You are permitted three individual measurements on the scales, after which you must give your answer.

I've got the answer to that one here in my book....but that would be cheating :hihi:

mkay.

Max, I believe, posted this one a way back.

You have a nice long piece of string that neatly fits exactly around the world at the equator. Let's assume the earth is actually flat as a billiard ball.

Now, you want to raise your string to a height of six inches above the ground, on little y shaped sticks. How much more string do you need?

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
mkay.

Max, I believe, posted this one a way back.

You have a nice long piece of string that neatly fits exactly around the world at the equator. Let's assume the earth is actually flat as a billiard ball.

Now, you want to raise your string to a height of six inches above the ground, on little y shaped sticks. How much more string do you need?

Erm.....some?

How big is the circumference of the Earth?

or...
can you write a sentence that agrees with itself, like this

"Did you know that there are eleven words in this question?"

Ok,

now try this one


"there is one A in this sentence, one B, two Cs, one D, thirteen Es, one F, one G....."

see how far you get!

Originally posted by noseyrosie
Erm.....some?

How big is the circumference of the Earth?
Why are you asking me that?
UTFSE!

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
Why are you asking me that?
UTFSE!

Haha I can;t believe I instantly worked out what that acronym stood for. Sheesh...

Well I did the calculations (insomniac or what...) and I worked out 18.849556! Well that can't be right!








I don't DO maths.

Originally posted by noseyrosie
Well I did the calculations (insomniac or what...) and I worked out 18.849556! Well that can't be right!








I don't DO maths.
18.85 what? :P

You're out by a factor of 2.

Circumference is calculated using Pi x Diameter.

The increase in circumference is equal to Pi x the increase in diameter.

6 inches is the increase in radius.
So the increase in diameter is 2 x 6 = 12.

So the increase in circumference is 2 x 6 x pi = 37.7 inches.

Hmm, I got this right last time, how come my answer is 19 billion inches?

anyway
now try this one


"there is one A in this sentence, one B, two Cs, one D, thirteen Es, one F, one G....."

see how far you get!

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
...You are permitted three individual measurements on the scales, after which you must give your answer.

1st) 6 on each side, find the heaviest...

2nd) of the heaviest bunch of 6, weigh 3 against each other...

3rd) of the heaviest bunch of 3, weigh 1 against another...

In the last weighing, either 1 will be heavier, or both will be the same, in which case the one you didn't weigh in the last lot will be the odd one out.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
...You have a nice long piece of string that neatly fits exactly around the world at the equator. Let's assume the earth is actually flat as a billiard ball...

If the world was flat would it have an equator?


Here's one for you all...

You're driving along the road in your 2 seater. At a bus stop you see three people...

The first is an old friend who once literally saved your life...

The second is a very frail looking old person who could obviously do with getting to the hospital like now...

The third is the male/female/mammal of your dreams (assume you're single)...

Obviously the car will only fit 2 people, & as soon as you leave the area you won't see any of them again.

What do you do?

give the car to your old friend (along with your mobile number).
Ask him to drive the old person to the hospital.

Catch the bus with the hotty.

Originally posted by Cyclone
give the car to your old friend (along with your mobile number).
Ask him to drive the old person to the hospital.

Catch the bus with the hotty.

Full marks that dude!! :thumbsup:

Have you seen that before, or are you really that quick?!? :P

Originally posted by steev
Full marks that dude!! :thumbsup:

Have you seen that before, or are you really that quick?!? :P

not seen it before, just seemed obvious. I'm pretty good on logic generally.

Not sure if giving your mobile number out is cheating though.
Otherwise you could give it to the hotty as well, and call an ambulance for the old guy, leaving you free to carry on driving around.

Originally posted by Cyclone
Not sure if giving your mobile number out is cheating though.

Meh, well the actual answer was to get your friend to drive the frail person to the hospital, & wait at the bus stop with aforementioned "hotty" for him/her to come back with your car.

The mobile number addition is just being clever :P

Originally posted by steev
1st) 6 on each side, find the heaviest...

2nd) of the heaviest bunch of 6, weigh 3 against each other...

3rd) of the heaviest bunch of 3, weigh 1 against another...

In the last weighing, either 1 will be heavier, or both will be the same, in which case the one you didn't weigh in the last lot will be the odd one out.

Nope. what if it is lighter, not heavier. You have to tell me which one is the odd one out, and whether it is heavier or lighter....

Flat as a billiard ball, obviously, means as smooth as. Billiard balls aren't flat either.

Originally posted by steev
Meh, well the actual answer was to get your friend to drive the frail person to the hospital, & wait at the bus stop with aforementioned "hotty" for him/her to come back with your car.

The mobile number addition is just being clever :P

if they're allowed to leave the area and come back again, then why aren't you?

Originally posted by Cyclone
give the car to your old friend (along with your mobile number).
Ask him to drive the old person to the hospital.

Catch the bus with the hotty.

Call an ambulance, a taxi and book a restuarant - then drive your date to the restaurant?

Originally posted by Cyclone
if they're allowed to leave the area and come back again, then why aren't you?

Coz they were waiting at a bus stop. If you leave, the bus will turn up, & they'll get on.

I'm getting the impression it was written before mobile phones though :D

OK, try this one...

3 blokes miss the last train/bus/donkey out of town, & head to a hotel. The receptionist tells them that they have a room with 3 beds, which is £30, so they each pay a tenner.

Later, the receptionist remembers that they have an offer on, & that it was actually £25, so takes a fiver change up to the room. The 3 blokes thank the receptionist for his/her honesty, each take £1, leaving the receptionist with a £2 tip...

So, to summarise, each bloke paid £9, & the receptionist got £2 tip...

3 x £9 = £27
£2 tip = £2
TOTAL = £29

Where did the other £1 go?

**edit - Anyone who sees the answer quickly please leave it a while, I love confusing people with this one!

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
Nope. what if it is lighter, not heavier. You have to tell me which one is the odd one out, and whether it is heavier or lighter....



Weigh(#1) 4 against 4.
If they balance, the odd one is in the remaining 4.
Weigh[#2) 3 of the "balanced" balls against 3 of the remainders.
If they balance then the last ball left is the odd one.
Weigh it(#3) against one of the others to see if it is lighter or heavier.

If they don't balance, then .....?:confused:

Originally posted by steev
Full marks that dude!! :thumbsup:

Have you seen that before, or are you really that quick?!? :P


He's seen it before, i did it, it's in I'm Bored, i meant the girl, old woman,friend one !

Originally posted by cgksheff
Weigh(#1) 4 against 4.
If they balance, the odd one is in the remaining 4.
Weigh[#2) 3 of the "balanced" balls against 3 of the remainders.
If they balance then the last ball left is the odd one.
Weigh it(#3) against one of the others to see if it is lighter or heavier.

If they don't balance, then .....?:confused:

keep thinking! but you are on the right track with fours.

Originally posted by steev
OK, try this one...

3 blokes miss the last train/bus/donkey out of town, & head to a hotel. The receptionist tells them that they have a room with 3 beds, which is £30, so they each pay a tenner.

Later, the receptionist remembers that they have an offer on, & that it was actually £25, so takes a fiver change up to the room. The 3 blokes thank the receptionist for his/her honesty, each take £1, leaving the receptionist with a £2 tip...

So, to summarise, each bloke paid £9, & the receptionist got £2 tip...

3 x £9 = £27
£2 tip = £2
TOTAL = £29

Where did the other £1 go?

**edit - Anyone who sees the answer quickly please leave it a while, I love confusing people with this one!

Each bloke did not pay £9 for the room, they paid (£30 - £2 (tip) ) / 3.

Equating to: £28 / 3.

Each bloke gave a £0.66... tip, and paid, £9.33... for the room.

Originally posted by Jamie
Each bloke did not pay £9 for the room, they paid (£30 - £2 (tip) ) / 3.

Equating to: £28 / 3.

Each bloke gave a £0.66... tip, and paid, £9.33... for the room.

Thats not it. The mistake is in the adding up. Each bloke spent in total £9. i.e. £27 pounds in total. The £27 comprises £25 payment for the room and a £2 tip. So each bloke paid £0.66 tip and £8.33 for the room.

The summary is incorrect. It should read. So each bloke spent £9

i.e. £9 x 3 = £27

- £2 tip for the girl

and so the hotel received £25 for the room.


OR you could say.

The blokes started with a tenner each. i.e £30. They then gave that to the hotel. THe hotel has thirty pounds.
The girl refunds £1 to each bloke, she keeps £2. Thus, the blokes each have £1, the girl £2 and the hotel £25. Total still equals £30.