http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006240558,00.html

Hope these scumbags get whats coming to them.

Knife crime is totally out of control. Mind you the governments plan on raising the age of buying a knife to 18 will surely stamp out these crimes..my a**e :rolleyes:

That made me feel sick watching that, it is really frightening to think how innocently waiting for a lift can get u stabbed!!!

:rant: That is absolutely discusting, I'm sorry, but I couldn't help but swear watching that video :mad:

They should all be put in a cage for life and never be let out, or even better get put in a room with 3 men and a knife and see how they like being ripped apart with a blade :|

Petition signed.

I think that if you have to carry a weapon out with you on the streets then you should be locked up just for doing that, however the problem is that you can really control the import of knives from different countries ie: spain.

So- therein lies the problem.

You can put an age limit of people buying knives in stores, the problem with that is that a younger person could ask someone older to buy them it.. so that cant work.

The only way to go for me is more police on the streets, a total ban on all hunting knives and knives over a certain size but then the problem remains that cookery knives are quite large as well- so there is no real way of controlling knife crime.

More police for me though roaming the streets would keep us safer.

Thats sick! They should be hung for that. B******S.

My heart goes out to the poor boys family. 20 years thrown away for what?
I feel physically sick.

It's not the knives that need taking away (every household has one) it's the incentive to carry one and that is only down to the law.

Until a sentance means a sentance that is sufficient to deter then nothing is going to change.

discusting! - petition signed.

WHY WHY WHY? I just dont understand why?

Watching that made me feel so emotional. you can actually see the knife in his hand, and stabs him all over....
God help humanity!

This knife amnesty should have come into force a long time ago if you ask me.

Do you think most stabbings have been brought to light since the amnesty began?.. or would it have happened anyway without the amnesty in tow? :|

Just like the Dunblane tragedy, ok, most guns were handed in, But a substantial amount of them are still on our streets. It will be the same with knifes, like it or not.

its said many times but this country has got to make the punishment fit the crime ,until we do that nothing will change, you can put the age of buying a knife up to 65. it will not stop these heathens carrying knives but more so willing to use it on some innocent victim. we need tough laws & tough judges
to implement this laws .lock the b******* up no parole make them do every minute.the good people of this country need to know that crimes like these will not be tolerated.

its said many times but this country has got to make the punishment fit the crime ,until we do that nothing will change, you can put the age of buying a knife up to 65. it will not stop these heathens carrying knives but more so willing to use it on some innocent victim. we need tough laws & tough judges
to implement this laws .lock the b******* up no parole make them do every minute.the good people of this country need to know that crimes like these will not be tolerated.
Long sentences and no parole :shocked:
Careful matey...you will feel the wrath of the luvvies.
Just watching that cctv footage is sickening. All three of them should be shot.

ive changed my mind , they dont all want long sentences, the b****** who did the stabbing wants hanging, and as for the police looking for a motive simple they are savages with no morals of human decency,i for one would not lose any sleep if the powers that be topped the b****** tomorrow

until people get the protection they require from the police then people will always carry some form of weapon,they are not all super heros who can defend themselves against ten muggers at a time

the law is to blame,it is to soft on sentencing,the " do gooder " has wrecked the system to such an extent it will be almost iretrievable, look at last months fiasco, a thousand and more criminals released to roam the streets by " accident", the law as it stands now is more on the side of the criminal than the victim,a man defending his family home is more likely to face prosecution than the criminal that was trying to break into it.

no one who carries a knife is going to walk into a police station and hand it over,they could have done it anytime they wanted to in the past without the amnesty but didnt bother,thats because they feel they need it,how many arrested for carrying a knife have said " i carry it to stab some one "? how many say " i carry it for my own defence" ? thats what has to be worked on,the defence of the public,an amnesty is just another way of saying " you are to blame,the public,not us the establishment"

If anyone has that much mindless hatred in them there's no real way to stop them getting hold of a weapon. That video is truly sickening and there's no way people like that should be allowed to live, waste of air and space even in prison. For cases where the evidence is as clear cut as that I'm all in favour of the death sentence (not so where there's a possibility of being proved innocent in the future).

Its nice to see the number of signatures going up at a fast rate :thumbsup: keep passing the link on to everyone you can.

Sorry jimbob but I'm not going to sign anything that lets the sun claim to be the 'voice of the people' :P

There is another way to sort this whole mess out peeps and already its been tried and tested and then got stopped.. the death penalty.

Bring it back, people **** themselves and think twice before committing murder- jobs a good un!

Considering the looming overpopulation problems, yes absolutely, don't see why not. Perhaps not in every case, but where someone's actions can be proved without doubt and those actions show that they will never be a useful component of human society, definitely with you on that.

Why exactly was it necessary to view the video?

The sun have triumphed once again - hysteria amongst the sheep-like masses :roll:

I am appauled at the circumstances of this case, but I am not blood-hungry enough to gawp at the goryness of it

There is legislation in place that allows the police to arrest anyone found in posession of a knife, other than a pen knife with a blade not exceeding three inches in length. The courts are allowed to pass custodial sentences on these people, the trouble is that the police rarely arrest folk with knives if they are simply caught in posession during a stop and search. On the rare occasions that they are brought before a magistrate they just get a telling off.

If every none domestic and industrial knife were to disappear there would still be an abundant supply of kitchen and industrial knives on the market. Buying a knife, unlike a hand gun, is not a criminal offence and it is unlikely that it ever will be (other than age related) due to the complexity of the legislation required.

Just look at the tool belts worn by folk in the building trade, they carry knives and hammers and all sorts of other tools that could be used as weapons. When one of these guys goes to buy the sandwiches is he likely to be arrested if he is wearing his belt? He won't take off the belt as it might get stolen by someone who might view it quite differently.

Knife crime will continue until society changes it's views and the police and the courts start to do their jobs properly.

I clicked on it because it was there. Bit disturbing though - possibly because of the complete lack of gore, looks like barely anything happens to him and he's still dead. Used to seeing people blown apart in movies and it makes it seem like it'd take that much to kill someone, but just reminds me we're a bit more fragile than we think.

The complete lack of sound also makes it more eerie. But the most frightening thing is certainly the complete lack of motivation for doing that.

Didnt watch the footage but signed the petition,that poor family.My thoughts go out to them.

I also felt sick to my stomach after watching that. I can't believe there are people like this about? :'(

Also think what its going to be like when england crash out of the world cup yet again and people have had too much to drink....

bring back the guillotine.

I clicked on it because it was there. Bit disturbing though - possibly because of the complete lack of gore, looks like barely anything happens to him and he's still dead. Used to seeing people blown apart in movies and it makes it seem like it'd take that much to kill someone, but just reminds me we're a bit more fragile than we think.

The complete lack of sound also makes it more eerie. But the most frightening thing is certainly the complete lack of motivation for doing that.

The video is also quite misleading - the guy you see collapsing to the ground is the one who survived. The guy who runs away in the green T-shirt is Daniel Pollen, who was killed.

Sorry jimbob but I'm not going to sign anything that lets the sun claim to be the 'voice of the people' :P

I understand what you mean Kathythebean.
I will never, nor do most people from Liverpool ever buy a copy of the Sun. But in a case like this, if no other media is making an effort to try and stop a too lenient sentence being imposed on these murderers; then if you agree with the Sun's intentions you should be able to appease your conscience, and sign.

Knife crime is totally out of control.

There has been no increase in knife crime. This is media hype and kneejerk reactions from politicians.

There has been no increase in knife crime. This is media hype and kneejerk reactions from politicians.


Where is your evidence for this bold assertion?

Where is your evidence for this bold assertion?

British Crime Survey. I could google it for you if you so wish. I heard it on the radiogram not three days ago.

Where's the contrary evidence for the equally bold counter-assertion upon which this thread is based?

I'm not saying it's not a problem , it's just the political opportunism and media hype that get my goat. How many knife crimes were committed last May? Well I really don't know and I doubt anyone on here does either. A couple of stories in the press and suddenly it's Armageddon and society is collapsing around our ears.

edit: found one story quite quickly (http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,,1787451,00.html).

British Crime Survey. I could google it for you if you so wish. I heard it on the radiogram not three days ago.

Where's the contrary evidence for the equally bold counter-assertion upon which this thread is based?

I'm not saying it's not a problem , it's just the political opportunism and media hype that get my goat. How many knife crimes were committed last May? Well I really don't know and I doubt anyone on here does either. A couple of stories in the press and suddenly it's Armageddon and society is collapsing around our ears.

edit: found one story quite quickly (http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,,1787451,00.html).

Yes, I would like you produce the evidence, which might be rather difficult as there is no specific criminal offence of stabbing and therefore it is difficult to disentangle knife crimes of the kind we are talking about from other vicious crimes. Moreover, it all depends on the time scale. I have no doubt that there will be peaks and troughs in knife crime from year to year, but there may still be an upward trend over a longer period.

Yes, I would like you produce the evidence, which might be rather difficult as there is no specific criminal offence of stabbing and therefore it is difficult to disentangle knife crimes of the kind we are talking about from other vicious crimes. Moreover, it all depends on the time scale. I have no doubt that there will be peaks and troughs in knife crime from year to year, but there may still be an upward trend over a longer period.

Try this one on for size, my lord.

"Home Office records show that the number of people killed with a sharp instrument in 1994 was 231. In 2005 that number was a near identical 236" (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2092-2209635,00.html)

I don't deny its a complex and difficult issue and this only relates to homicides, but it's grist to the mill. I actually agree with you [for once] that longer term trends are more informative than those of the modern day attention span of 3 minutes.

Try this one on for size, my lord.

"Home Office records show that the number of people killed with a sharp instrument in 1994 was 231. In 2005 that number was a near identical 236" (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2092-2209635,00.html)

I don't deny its a complex and difficult issue and this only relates to homicides, but it's grist to the mill. I actually agree with you [for once] that longer term trends are more informative than those of the modern day attention span of 3 minutes.

The two figures above are virtually meaningless without having the data for both the intervening years and also for preceding years (on at least a comparable time scale). They certainly do not justify your assertion that 'there has been no increase in knife crime'. Moreover, as you admit, the figures relate only to murders and not other crimes in which knives were used.

There has been no increase in knife crime. This is media hype and kneejerk reactions from politicians.

I have a 17 year old son, I live on one of Sheffields roughest estates, have done for 37 years.
On this estate at least I am qualified to make that assumption. My son and his friends are always telling me about some of the violent carry ons that police and the media will never hear about.
Since last Christmas alone I have had 3 mates shot, one of them right outside the house. The most amazing thing is these 3 are not even involved in crime and were simply shot for crossing the "wrong" people.
Media aside, anyone living on these rough council estates must be blind not to have noticed the increase in knife crime.

I really am amazed by people who cannot see increases in these sort of violent criminal acts. Next you will be telling us theres also no increase in gun crime.
People would be amazed and sickened by some of the mindless acts of violence and vandalism that I see simply driving through my estate to and from work. Media hype and knee jerk reactions dont even enter the equation.
These luvvies ought to pull their heads out of their learndirect social worker course books and mind they dont choke on their Evian mineral water when they see the reality.

bring back the guillotine.

...and public hangings. It'll make the thugs and scumbags think twice when they see their mates twitching while they swing.

Yes I feel quite strongly about it.

Totally sickened and disgusted with the way the unprovoked attack took place, not that even the most serious of provocation would justify these actions.
All this goes to show is that the lack of a suitable punishment really does allow people to perform mindless acts of voilence without so much as giving it a second thought. If the death sentence were brought back, then I would imagine that even idiotic scum such as these would have thought twice before attacking anyone in this manner.
The problem is that these idiots are aware that if they are caught they won't really be doing hard labour in a prison, but they'll be serving a sentence in what amounts to a maximum security hotel, complete with private rooms, numerous ameneties and all meals provided - all at the taxpayers expense.
Quite frankly I'd rather get the trial over with quickly and throw the guilty ones into a woodchipper and feed what's left to the pigs as it's all they deserve.

The video is also quite misleading - the guy you see collapsing to the ground is the one who survived. The guy who runs away in the green T-shirt is Daniel Pollen, who was killed.

I noticed that too :huh:

I have a 17 year old son, I live on one of Sheffields roughest estates, have done for 37 years.
On this estate at least I am qualified to make that assumption. My son and his friends are always telling me about some of the violent carry ons that police and the media will never hear about.
Since last Christmas alone I have had 3 mates shot, one of them right outside the house. The most amazing thing is these 3 are not even involved in crime and were simply shot for crossing the "wrong" people.
Media aside, anyone living on these rough council estates must be blind not to have noticed the increase in knife crime.

I really am amazed by people who cannot see increases in these sort of violent criminal acts. Next you will be telling us theres also no increase in gun crime.
People would be amazed and sickened by some of the mindless acts of violence and vandalism that I see simply driving through my estate to and from work. Media hype and knee jerk reactions dont even enter the equation.
These luvvies ought to pull their heads out of their learndirect social worker course books and mind they dont choke on their Evian mineral water when they see the reality.

The british crime survey should pick up trends like this - even those which aren't reported but as his lordship says the stats are not fine tuned enough to prove a specific increase in knife crime. Hearsay and anecdotes don't cut it with me.

There may be a fad to carry knives amongst a tiny minority of youngsters, I really dont know - but even that is not fully proportionate to knife crime. Carrying one doesn't mean you would use one.

Fear of crime is, and always has been way out of line with actual crime levels and I stick by my assertion that the media (and opposition MPS) WANTS there to be an apparent increase so they can sell more papers and get elected on a hang em flog em ticket.

BTW I never mentioned guns

There has been no increase in knife crime. This is media hype and kneejerk reactions from politicians.

Crime such as this, whether or not we have all the statistics on it needs to be eradicated.

If this means that we need a knee jerk reaction or media hype so what !
We, society must not be allowed to become complacent. If as you seem to be implying, there is too much over reaction, well if over reaction is what it takes for anything to happen, I say lets over react!

I find it hard to believe that the Sun are saying how horrible and shocking this crime is and that these thugs should be given life, but on the other they are glorifying this horrendous crime by putting the video clip of it on their website. The motives of this are somewhat questionable!!

Crime such as this, whether or not we have all the statistics on it needs to be eradicated.

I don't think anyone would argue that we shouldnt try to reduce this sort (or any sort) of crime that but it's totally unrealistic to say "eradicate" of course. No culture or country anywhere, ever has eradicated violent crime to my knowledge.

If this means that we need a knee jerk reaction or media hype so what !
We, society must not be allowed to become complacent. If as you seem to be implying, there is too much over reaction, well if over reaction is what it takes for anything to happen, I say lets over react!

By definition yes, any over reaction is too much. That's what over reaction means...reacting too much.

We should act in a considered and effective way based on fact and not what the Sun says.

We should act in a considered and effective way based on fact and not what the Sun says.

I've stopped reading the Sun as it just winds me up reading their exagerrated (sp) stories about political correctness gone mad, immigration failures, crime on the streets and all the other issues that are blown well out of proportion. I'm sure some of their issues are real but not to the extent they make out. It's full of scare-mongering trash and I just end up getting mad when reading it. :mad:

[QUOTE=TwoFour]I don't think anyone would argue that we shouldnt try to reduce this sort (or any sort) of crime that but it's totally unrealistic to say "eradicate" of course. No culture or country anywhere, ever has eradicated violent crime to my knowledge.

Of course we should act in a considered and effective way, but first we must overcome the complacency from the old fool judges who live in a different well protected environment than most of us.
Nit picking on my choice of phrase or defining my words is not helpful in proper debate to get people opinions and ideas.

The only way to make a real reduction in crime is to try to eradicate it; otherwise you’re just playing about with different areas and statistics.
This is a real world with real violence. There will, unfortunately, always be violent crime but measures have been taken and more must be done, to let violent offenders know that they cannot get away with these offences.
In my opinion we should stand up and let the lawmakers know that we want better protection, from these thugs.
Better protection including improved morality in education, earlier signposting and the necessary correctional psychology programmes for problem children; better non lenient sentencing when previous measures have not worked on individual offenders, together with more help within a non-lenient correctional secure unit / prison.

There are many countries and cultures with considerably less crime than ours, another depravity our culture has spawned, which these other cultures don't have; is muck spreading media such as The Sun.

I have already indicated that The Sun is a spurious rag that you cannot trust, but is does have a large circulation, and apparently can get peoples attention.

Hopfully: With better education, papers like the Sun will become surplus to requirements of a more enlightened society.

The problem is not knives, it's gangs. A group of yobs can kick someone to death, they could use a hammer or whatever they can lay their hands on. Until we get rid of these yob gangs it doesn't matter if all the knives are handed in.

I have noticed this was originally posted in 2006 so nothing much has changed in the past two years has it?

Three years ago I came home from work, to see something glinting in the sunlight from a conifer in my garden. It was a knife. Bearing in mind that two days previously there had been a fatal stabbing some three miles away, and the weapon had not been found, I phoned my local police. I explained that the knife had an eight inch fluted blade. The person I spoke to told me to put it in my bin - which I did.

Three years ago I came home from work, to see something glinting in the sunlight from a conifer in my garden. It was a knife. Bearing in mind that two days previously there had been a fatal stabbing some three miles away, and the weapon had not been found, I phoned my local police. I explained that the knife had an eight inch fluted blade. The person I spoke to told me to put it in my bin - which I did.

I suspect the officers investigating the murder would be as aghast as the rest of us at the advice you were given. It just goes to show how common knife incidents are now that the police dismiss such calls. Surely the knife was discarded like that for a reason?!?

I'm so sick of people arguing that our concern over knife and gang crime is all a figment of our imagination because we're simpletons brainwashed by the gutter press. Apparently we are meant to ignore what we see with our own eyes and what we hear with our own ears. Instead we should do as they do and hold the opinion that we are told to hold by this lying and deceitful government. Who's the mug? :suspect:

The fact is that the government are desperately trying to spin their way out of this. They are desperate to cover up the fact that their liberal policies have had a disastrous affect on the fabric of society and have no place in the real world. They are trying to lie their way out of trouble but, unfortunately for them and luckily for us, they have simple told us too many lies for us to believe a word they say.