what's with all the St.Georges flags attached to the roof of cars recently - is it in anticipation of Euro 2004???

i think barnsly markets got some deal on..:thumbsup:

Originally posted by CoNrAd
i think barnsly markets got some deal on..:thumbsup:

:huh:

i'm not from these parts!

The flags are in support of England in the Euro2004 football starting next month. In the high street all the shops are starting to cash in, by putting on displays/or show that such and such product sponsor England.

blimey - starting a bit early aren't they! i thought maybe it was something to do with Doncaster Rovers going up or summat :roll:

but what do i know i'm a southerner! :P

Euro 2004 - Portugal - this summer.

it's to show the Jocks Paddies and Taffys who is going to win it .....calm down calm down its just in jest

Hehe, not that football encourages partisan behaviour of course ;)

got to say, i really can't wait. Summer footy tournaments rock! hmm might try and find a st george's flag and staple it to my forehead.

Anyone else find it extremely tacky?

Chris.

whilst coming into work this morning one of the bods on radio sheffield muttered something in passing about police asking some moterists to remove their car flags.

no details were mentioned so it made me wonder if anyone out there knew what this was about?

i am currently sporting a couple of em on my car (2 to make it look balenced eben if im not!!) and am also wondering if there are any Yorkshire ones around?

dave

Are there any Euro ones around. I want to get into the spirit of the thing but don't really care who wins.

Is Israel playing as token Europeans, same as in the Eurovision?

I think it looks very colourful and cheerful. Folks are looking forward in optimistic anticipation.
Make the most of it folks, Sven will soon muck it up.

And don't forget 'England v Argentina', as Henman battles on in the French Open. The semi final is David and Goliath :)

Anyone know where i can find an Iraq flag for my car? I know it's nowt to do with Euro04 but just to p*** off the tacky red cross flaggers!;)

Originally posted by Lestat
Anyone know where i can find an Iraq flag for my car? I know it's nowt to do with Euro04 but just to p*** off the tacky red cross flaggers!;)


Why would it? Flying a St George flag during/leading up to Euro 2004 has absolutely nothing to do with conflict in Iraq, and everything to do with national pride and support in a football tournament. So why would it annoy them?

Max - if you're going to take an interest, as an Englishman the least you could do is support your own country.

Originally posted by t020

Max - if you're going to take an interest, as an Englishman the least you could do is support your own country.

Who said I was English? I consider myself British first, both my parents coming from mixed stock including Irish, English and Scottish. I spent 14 years before I was 20 in other commonwealth countries and never really considered England my home until I settled in Sheffield, albeit an adopted home.

I'd rather sport a Euro flag though, as at least 2 of the European teams will make it through to the final.:D

I sometimes think it a pity that we can't display our flag (either St. George or the Union Flag) more often than just for sporting events. I believe that in America it is quite common for people to have the Stars and stripes in their gardens.

I was just wondering if i put a german or french flag on my car how long it'd take before someone vandalised it? or how many frowns i'd get from red cross flaggers.

Originally posted by Lestat
Anyone know where i can find an Iraq flag for my car? I know it's nowt to do with Euro04 but just to p*** off the tacky red cross flaggers!;)

Try contacting a Mr. S. Hussain, c/o Baghdad prison. I think he may have quite a few old ones which he no longer has any use for. He may even throw in a free phile of anthrax if you are lucky. Better still, tell him you are Kurdish and he may even deliver it personally.

:D LOL! I knew it'd get someones back up!

No. It's a free country. you can fly waht flag you like.

Originally posted by slimsid2000
I sometimes think it a pity that we can't display our flag (either St. George or the Union Flag) more often than just for sporting events. I believe that in America it is quite common for people to have the Stars and stripes in their gardens.
Nobody is stopping you putting a flag in your garden, on your car, or on your forhead! Where did you hear different?

Originally posted by slimsid2000
I I believe that in America it is quite common for people to have the Stars and stripes in their gardens.
Is that in case they forget what country they are occu....err, living in?

I got an excellent deal at Poundland for my car-flag. I was pleasantly surpised when I got to the till and was only charged £1.

Originally posted by alchemist
whilst coming into work this morning one of the bods on radio sheffield muttered something in passing about police asking some moterists to remove their car flags.

no details were mentioned so it made me wonder if anyone out there knew what this was about?

I heard of similar reports last year,my car is currently flying a St Georges flag and I think its great to see the english flag flying. I would be interested to know on what grounds the police are asking people to remove them, the ones I have seen flying, do not obsure the drivers view, cover up any registration plates etc. Just seems like kill joy to me. I could understand if we had a huge flag plastered across the back window thus restricting view. The only thing I can think of is if blew off its mounting and landed on the windscreen of the car behind. Any other suguestions ???

Well I've not heard of it ACTUALLY happening, just lots of stories that it does.

Chinese whispers?

I too think you should be able to wear/display the St George's Flag as and when you feel like it,provided you are not obscuring your and anyone elses view whilst driving.Even so do please be careful and remember to remove them at night kids around here have started to set fire to them whilst still attached to your cars!The nylon in the flags goes all stringy and drips onto your paintwork causing your bodywork to peel-great eh?They cant leave anything alone can they?

Originally posted by alchemist
whilst coming into work this morning one of the bods on radio sheffield muttered something in passing about police asking some moterists to remove their car flags.

no details were mentioned so it made me wonder if anyone out there knew what this was about?

i am currently sporting a couple of em on my car (2 to make it look balenced eben if im not!!) and am also wondering if there are any Yorkshire ones around?

dave
]
Dont quote me on this but.. my step sister told me that the police are asking people to remove the flags as certiain ethnic groups are finding them offensive..( please dont stampede me with p.c no offence intended to anyone ) personally if this is true then its very silly as I seem to remember houses getting painted last time the footie was on. anybody know anymore??

Originally posted by jenhoppy
I too think you should be able to wear/display the St George's Flag as and when you feel like it,provided you are not obscuring your and anyone elses view whilst driving.Even so do please be careful and remember to remove them at night kids around here have started to set fire to them whilst still attached to your cars!The nylon in the flags goes all stringy and drips onto your paintwork causing your bodywork to peel-great eh?They cant leave anything alone can they?


Could I ask where "around here" is? Are there a lot of asian kids around there?

Also, could you tell us where your sister heard this?

As I said on st georges day .. local authorties banned cabbies etc from flying st georges flags and no one believed me !!!

Well ive heard rumours that police were stopping cars on penistone road last week making them take their flags out of the windows. (but like i said it was a rumour)

but found some interesting sites tho'..

http://www.flagwire.com/display_article.asp?id=7242 :evil:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/3730133.stm
:nono:

allthough the pub chain has now changed its mind! :clap:

Heard on the news yesterday that a school headmistress had banned mums & kids from bringing cakes/buns to school for school fete's and kid's birthday parties etc.
The school is afraid of being sued if anyone gets food poisoning.
The whole country is going litigation crazy.

in a similar vein, but slightly different, my dad the bus driver, (sorry for boring you anti bus driver types out there), was reported by a member of the public and was sent home as a result.
The reason, one New year, I cant remember if it was eve or day, he thought it would be a fun idea to go to work in full highland dress (he was a Scot). It didn't detract from his job, and he wasn't drunk. Most people loved it, getting in the spirit of the time, one person took offence and reported him.
What harm was he doing.
And what harm are the car flags doing.
Mind you, I have had a St Andrews flag on my car for years, I don't need an event to celebrate my loyalty to my nationality.:wave:

Originally posted by t020
Could I ask where "around here" is? Are there a lot of asian kids around there?

Whats that got to do with owt?

Some people are so bloody miserable. its only a bit of fun. i dont give a flying fart about football but ive got the flags cos i like them they brighten up the roads and if people dont want to see english flgs flying they should go and live somewhere else.

well said:thumbsup:

You really shouldn't care about miserable people Kittikat, you display those flags with pride luv! forget the rest.

Just a note to T020, Where i live there are alot of asian shop owners. You might not be aware but most of them have posters of the English red cross from newspapers etc up in their windows believe it or not.

I went into one the other day and got talking to the son of one of the shop owners. He was a real good muslim kid and was a Wednesdayite. He told me that most of the Asian kids supported english teams and were supporting England in Euro this year.

If flags are being burned, I'd say it was more than likely that asian kids would be burning them.

some asian kids i know are even prouder to be associated with britain than some british kids i know.

yes T020, we know what you think. Thanks.

You know what else the asian kid told me too? He said that Englands white fans were spoiling the game for everyone in England by going abroad to cause violence on purpose!!?

But of course T020, White hooligans - unheard of eh!? what a silly suggestion.

Not at all. Its just that the act of BURNING a flag is symbolic, so I'd suspect Muslim fundamentalist sympathisers were behind it.

maybe, but more than likely it's just pure mindless vandalism.

Originally posted by kittikatII
Some people are so bloody miserable. its only a bit of fun. i dont give a flying fart about football but ive got the flags cos i like them they brighten up the roads and if people dont want to see english flgs flying they should go and live somewhere else.

Agreed im not particularly into football, but I think its great seeing the English flag flying and amazed at how many cars are flying them too, its about time english people should be allowed to display their flag with pride.

In the past i've seen cars up pitsmoor / burngreave with Jamaican flags stuck on them also asian lads displaying Pakistans flag, neither of which I find offensive, nothing wrong in being proud of your background / heritage.

Not at all. Its just that the act of BURNING a flag is symbolic, so I'd suspect Muslim fundamentalist sympathisers were behind it.

"Muslim fundamentalist sympathisers"??! You clearly haven't got the first clue as to what you're talking about. :loopy:

Originally posted by Greenback
"Muslim fundamentalist sympathisers"??! You clearly haven't got the first clue as to what you're talking about. :loopy:

Oh ok (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9284&highlight=burning+flag) . How silly of me to think that kind of thing happens :rolleyes:

I'm actually referring to the "Muslim fundamentalist sympathisers" comment. It betrays a lack of knowledge as to the legitimate gripes of millions of peaceful, moderate, law-abiding Muslims. They do exist, you know, and last time I checked this country was called 'England' rather than 'Israel', and you're allowed to speak your mind. Burning a flag may be symbolic, but it's only a show of dissent. No-one gets killed. It's disrespectful, but not on the scale of what's going on in the Middle East.

Seems to me you're constantly on the lookout for an opportunity to shoehorn in your prejudices.

Anyway, back on topic - I don't really mind seeing all these flags, but wonder about some people's motivation behind asserting their national identity. I mean, who really doubts that white van man will be cheering on our boys this summer? Is it really necessary to rub people's faces in the fact? Or is there something a little more sinister going on...I do wonder.

Why wonder? Other countries aren't afraid to parade their flags, so why should we be?

It's just that sometimes I think the flag is being used more to define what a person is "not" rather than what they "are" - ie it's laying down a rather threatening challenge to those sections of society for whom nationality isn't a cut and dried issue.

That's not to say I won't be cheering on our boys in Euro 2004, but I'll pass on the "no surrender to the IRA" chants thank you very much!

edit, its over now.

bloodyhell i only asked if they were for euro 2004 50 replies ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :o

Originally posted by t020
Not at all. Its just that the act of BURNING a flag is symbolic, so I'd suspect Muslim fundamentalist sympathisers were behind it.

Actually i live near to Crystal Peaks and there are very few asian families around here,although the asian families that do live locally are pleasant and ive not heard of any of the estates problems been down to them or their families.Just mindless yobs with nothing better to do!

Originally posted by Tony
Also, could you tell us where your sister heard this?
well aparrently a freind of my step sister was stopped whilst driving through parsons cross by the police and asked to remove it(the flag) when she asked why the police told her that..but as I said dont quote me on it as I know the effect of chineese whispers..

do we have any members of the police in the forum that can give us a definative ruling on this?

dave

I think the flags look a bit tacky.

I remember being ain a pub on St Georges Day (I just went for a pint, didn't know what day it was), and there were a bunch of absolute wallies there wrapped in England flags singing such gems as 'No Surrender to the IRA', 10 German bombers flying through the air, then the RAF from England shot them down', and my personal faveourite, 'all Scots are c-words'. The whole pub was full of about fifty people cheering them on. It also seemed to be a rule that you had to be obese to wrap yourself in an England flag.

Originally posted by oxbeast


It also seemed to be a rule that you had to be obese to wrap yourself in an England flag.

And even more obese to wear a replica England shirt.

It also helps the effect if you're tattooed, shave your head and have a bunch of keys hanging from your belt, one of which fits the 'foreign' car parked in the disabled bay.:loopy:

Found this story on a bbc news-site.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/3752953.stm

A flag manufacturer wants to make a 'softer option'.

For goodness sake.......it's our National Flag.

I choose not to have one flying from my car,but i do beleive that people are flying the flag's as a bit of a show against the current immigration situation.
That's the general feedback i've got when asking people around where i live.
I discreetly said to car driver's "the football does'nt start for a bit"......to be met with replies of "It's nowt to do with football mate".

Wonder what they mean by that ?

SilentStatic said

And don't forget 'England v Argentina', as Henman battles on in the French Open. The semi final is David and Goliath

This was my point. Henman is British, and represents Great Britain. This is what annoyed my friends (One Scottish, one Northern Irish) in the pub. English nationalism tends to claim for itself things that should be described as British. There are very few achievements, outside of sport, that can be ascribed to England on her own.

Originally posted by markham
one of which fits the 'foreign' car parked in the disabled bay.
I thought that aswell, the irony is insane. Im willing to bet money that the flags themselves aren't made in England either.

Chris.

I think this is a cunning plot by the evil petrol companies to increase the drag on cars, thus increasing the petrol consumption.

Quote:
Originally posted by markham
one of which fits the 'foreign' car parked in the disabled bay.

I thought that aswell, the irony is insane. Im willing to bet money that the flags themselves aren't made in England either.

What irony? There aren't any British car makers left, unless you can shell out thirty grand for a TVR or and Invicta. Or buy something vintage

Weren't many mentions of patriotism in these posts. Is it a nasty word?
At school, in Sheffield, many years ago, I was taught to take a pride in the National team, the local team, and the school team etc.
In later years, it was considered correct to not care about winning - - just take part. Always an olympic platitude, but later still, competition was frowned upon.
Modern times, it seems as though the media focus on the negative of losing, before the event takes place.
Well, we won the rugby, we are winning the cricket, I don't think Steve Redgrave even contemplated losing.
Show the flag and be proud.
If you feel that this is against your principles, join the emigration queue. If you live in England - - Support it.

Oh come on sheffco, I don't think that there is a single post in this thread where somebody says that they aren't proud to be British.

You seem to speak a different language.

Originally posted by oxbeast
This was my point. Henman is British, and represents Great Britain. This is what annoyed my friends (One Scottish, one Northern Irish) in the pub. English nationalism tends to claim for itself things that should be described as British. There are very few achievements, outside of sport, that can be ascribed to England on her own.


Excuse me, but Tim Henman was born in Oxford, which, like it or not, is very much in England. That makes him as much English as British.

Its not just an English thing either. David Coulthard drives for a British team, but insists on bearing a Scottish flag on his car.

Exactly, and why shouldn't he? In England, too many people are worried about a bit of patriotism.

Originally posted by t020
Why wonder? Other countries aren't afraid to parade their flags, so why should we be?

Er...it seems we aren't, which is precisely the subject of this thread.

I thought the thread was about the English Flag!
The Scots and the Welsh are fervently persuing their independance in Europe and further - good luck to them.
Where they will get the financing from is open to debate.

Can't knock me, I served with a "Ubiquitous Regiment" and had many friends in all of the British Nations. It didn't prevent us from taking part in Georges, Patricks and Davids day. I sang a few songs in those days, and took part in a few race-ial arguements - - all friends and comparing black eyes the next day or so. Healthy competition on the pitch, and woe betide the foreigners who played against us.
I think the 60's, 70's and 80's, for one reason or another took the National Pride out of us. It became fashionable to knock the "Establishment".
A lot of the Myths were started then - - - Colloquial spelling - - non competetive sports - - The Daily Telegraph comparison of the "11 plus" exam.
The French people I worked with then called it "The English Disease" - - The Americans were wary of Unions - - all to good reason at the time.
What is wrong with a reassurgence of patriotism?

To those that think that the flying of the St Georges cross has more to it than the football, then why were there hardly any flags a month ago. of course it's mainly about the football, it's not just a coincidence. There may be some people flying it for other reasons, but the vast majority are flying it to back the england team. And after seeing the celebrations for the rugby world cup, more and more people are getting into the spirit of it all. it's nothing more sinister than that.

I fly my st Andrews car flag all the time.
Also, when you go into the average pub un Scotland, no matter what time of year it is, there is normally some kind of flag or mark of Scottish patriotism on display. It seems that England needs something to celebrate to prove their allegience, where as the scots do it all the time. I don't know about Wales or Northen Ireland, as I've never been.
I think it is such a shame that nations can't or don't show their patriotism all the time.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/3786397.stm

this asks the question as to the intent of flying the flag - it really makes me angry with people calling for a ban on waving this 'rascist' flag - a sentiment i just cannot force myself to become sympathetic with

this is England - this is our flag this is our right

having said that, i wonder what people would think of an Iraqi residing over here and waving their flag - i can obviously see the conflict and potential contradictions

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wear/3785601.stm

indeed they are prosecuting for flags that are not displayed safely!

i'm glad i've now become part of a debate to a thread that i had so innocently (and now redundant!) started!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/3752953.stm

another submission of similar ilk to the above

I'm still waiting for somebody to cite an actual real life verifiable example where flags have been 'banned' by any sort of authority for race reasons.

Lots of chatter, but no evidence so far. Can anyone prove me wrong?

Call me cynical, but I believe that it's no more than scaremongering by the right wing who want to stir up a bit of nationalism for their own selfish ends.

Of Course it's about football.
Myself, in younger days, I was a right winger.
While serving on a Nato base, I took part in many impromtu international matches. Teams picked in the Bar, and I was famous for my staggering forays down the right side (Number 7).
Crossed into the centre, and was sick on the corner flag.
Had to mention a flag, to stay on topic.
Tony seems to prefer the Left Outside position. (Number 11).
How about a "Forum" team, and which flag would we play under?

i can't be bothered to read through this subject, so if this has been mentioned....I heard from someone that it was going to be a motoring offence to attach the flags to cars...anyone know??

Originally posted by costessey
i can't be bothered to read through this subject, so if this has been mentioned....I heard from someone that it was going to be a motoring offence to attach the flags to cars...anyone know??

I think it was mentioned in this thread somewhere.

Originally posted by max
I'd rather sport a Euro flag though, as at least 2 of the European teams will make it through to the final.:D
unless, of course, it's a Russia v Switzerland final :P

Originally posted by sheffco
If you feel that this is against your principles, join the emigration queue. If you live in England - - Support it.
Fly the flag or leave? Jees. What big choices you give us.

Chris.

Originally posted by Lestat
Anyone know where i can find an Iraq flag for my car? I know it's nowt to do with Euro04 but just to p*** off the tacky red cross flaggers!;)



.....and end up with an house brick through your windscreen!

http://www.sniffpetrol.com/AdFlags.jpg

it will be an offence if you block the view through your windows. otherwise there is no problem.

Originally posted by costessey
i can't be bothered to read through this subject, so if this has been mentioned....I heard from someone that it was going to be a motoring offence to attach the flags to cars...anyone know??

Not sure about that. However, certain towns have told taxi drivers not to display them in their taxi's

That's because of taxi regualtions though, not that they are St Georges flags. If you had a flag of your Aunt Nellie you would be asked to remove it just the same.

I know, those aunt nellie flags are becoming a real hazard! they're everywhere!

Bedhead really started a good topic.
So far, there have been numerous articles in the press - reports on GM TV - Look North - Calendar, to name a few.
The politico knockers must be gnashing their teeth.

It had to happen didn't it? A bloke in Manchester has been ordered by the pander-to-the-muslims council to take down his 20 or so St. George's flags. As usual, they don't have the face to be honest enough to admit why he has to do so, other than it is a 'fire hazard'.

In Stockport, market traders have been told they cannot give red roses to their customers on St. George's day. No explanation given, but we know there's an election coming up and Stockport does have a Muslim 'community' to be looked after/pandered to (delete as applicable).

Originally posted by Ousetunes
It had to happen didn't it? A bloke in Manchester has been ordered by the pander-to-the-muslims council to take down his 20 or so St. George's flags. As usual, they don't have the face to be honest enough to admit why he has to do so, other than it is a 'fire hazard'.

In Stockport, market traders have been told they cannot give red roses to their customers on St. George's day. No explanation given, but we know there's an election coming up and Stockport does have a Muslim 'community' to be looked after/pandered to (delete as applicable).

very good. Actually he's been asked to take them down for health and safety reasons. If he replaces them with any other flag he will be asked to take them down again, it's nothing to do with the design printed on them.

I wish we had the details of the "health and safety " reasons. Are they full of germs or will they suddenly burst into flames ?
If the bloke did replace them with flags of another design , the Council would HAVE to make him take them down ; even Councils like Stockport can't be too blatant !
AS I've said the REALLY interesting point is why they made the move in the first instance .
I don't even know where to begin with the " red rose " one. Perhaps it's a joke ? Or can you make crack cocaine , maybe , out of red roses ? It beggars belief.

Health and safety?! Pah! More like the St George's flags - albeit all 20 of them - were like a red rag to a bull.

'Come on councillors, we can't be having this'. I bet it's a Labour council desperate to salvage something from the wreckage of the Iraqi 'war'. There are a lot of Muslims who previously voted Labour but probably won't this time round.

That incidentally, is the crux of my argument. Fortunately, I doubt the Muslims of Manchester are that gullible.

So we cannot celebrate St Georges, the patron saint of our Country. Can you imagine Scotland or Ireland being told they cannot display their Patron Saint/display flags.

I dont think it is anything to do with bloomin health and safety. does that mean I cannot hang washing out on the line because its a fire hazzard......


well Iam going to celebrate it and stick a big **** off flag outside my house!!!! AND YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT

:D

It's odd, because I've been traveling around the country, and I've seen more pubs, and private buildings, with St George's flags than ever before in my life... so they obviously aren't doing a great job stopping people, are they?

The college insisted on the removal of the st george's flag last year and insisted the england football strip was not worn on the grounds of it causing offence last year. :mad:

Now if they'd banned all football strips...

Originally posted by technophobe
So we cannot celebrate St Georges, the patron saint of our Country. Can you imagine Scotland or Ireland being told they cannot display their Patron Saint/display flags.

I dont think it is anything to do with bloomin health and safety. does that mean I cannot hang washing out on the line because its a fire hazzard......


well Iam going to celebrate it and stick a big **** off flag outside my house!!!! AND YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT

:D

GOOD LAD and remember all you do-gooders, this is ENGLAND :mad:

Anyone remember this.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2981038.stm
This when politicall correctness really starts to hit home.
Read it and weep chaps :rant:
EDIT : I have noticed how threads involving race usually contain the thoughts and opinions of real everyday common people who are living with the reality of enforced multiculturalism. People from real world housing estates who everday feel they are being sold out by the powers that be. This usually reflects in the content of the posts. At least that is until 4:30 when all the social workers get home from work ;) In my opinion its the people who are driven by political correctness who are ignorant to the opinions of others, its these very people who will accept no other views and opinions from anyone and will immediately brand anyone whos views clash with theirs a racist.

It's a bit like the first cuckoo of spring this!

Maypoles - Banned
St Georges Flags - Banned
Penny Farthings - Banned
Warm Flat Beer - Banned
Flat Caps & Whippets - Banned
Girls in big skirts and hats cycling through rural idyll & and past cricket matches - Banned.


Let's not forget that Europe banned chocolate and sausages too.

Oh my Oh My Where WILL IT ALL END?

Originally posted by AJ sheffield
Anyone remember this.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2981038.stm
This when politicall correctness really starts to hit home.
Read it and weep chaps :rant:

Did anybody read the comments?

Some twonk says that wales is not represented in the union flag :rolleyes:

dare I say it?, oh go on I will....


If your a young white male in this country are you not the most discriminated against?

Originally posted by ZEDEX48K
If your a young white male in this country are you not the most discriminated against?

Dunno, I've never been discriminated against because I'm a young white male.

Originally posted by ZEDEX48K
dare I say it?, oh go on I will....


If your a young white male in this country are you not the most discriminated against?

by whom?

You are probably discriminated against as a young white male, when they are casting for the role of Kofi in "annan the movie" - as that part will surely go to morgan freeman.

but you really need to be more specific in order to make sense

Originally posted by Ousetunes
In Stockport, market traders have been told they cannot give red roses to their customers on St. George's day. No explanation given, but we know there's an election coming up and Stockport does have a Muslim 'community' to be looked after/pandered to (delete as applicable).

I wish people would actually READ instead of glancing at a headline and making up the rest themselves.

The Lib Dem council in Stockport are refusing to fund half the cost of red roses on St George's Day because they are viewed as a symbol of support for Labour.

Daft? yeah, probably. But where Muslims come into that I really haven't got a clue. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Greenback
I wish people would actually READ instead of glancing at a headline and making up the rest themselves.

The Lib Dem council in Stockport are refusing to fund half the cost of red roses on St George's Day because they are viewed as a symbol of support for Labour.



........ and ........."We are making arrangements to get in stocks of hundreds of small St George's Day flags and bunting to help the market celebrate that day.

"The plan is for little flags, rather than red roses, to be funded."

Evening News Article is here (http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/men/news/s/155/155448_council_snubs_st_georges_day_roses.html) .


........ and .......... the "flag ban" affair is actually in Liverpool not Manchester!

Read it here (http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/men/news/s/155/155418_fury_over_st_george_flag_ban.html) .

Originally posted by ZEDEX48K
dare I say it?, oh go on I will....


If your a young white male in this country are you not the most discriminated against?

no, most definitely not. I have never experience any discrimination due to my whiteness, youngness or maleness, and I have never seen anyone else experience it.

Originally posted by cgksheff
........ and .......... the "flag ban" affair is actually in Liverpool not Manchester!

Read it here (http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/men/news/s/155/155418_fury_over_st_george_flag_ban.html) .

Well that makes more sense now :rolleyes:

Bleedin Scousers. It's embarrasing :blush:

Originally posted by ZEDEX48K
dare I say it?, oh go on I will....


If your a young white male in this country are you not the most discriminated against?

I have a teenage son and I would agree ZEDEX48K. Maybe it depends on area, where your from etc but my son and his friends are regulary stopped by the police for no reason. Questioned about where they are going, who they are, where they live etc. I'm not talking about gangs of kids, I mean 2 of them walking along the street in daylight. Recently 3 of them on their way to a 16th birthday party @ 6.30 pm were stopped and not allowed to proceed until they had produced card/present/invite to prove where they were off to! My 30 year old brother also has been stopped in the street and questioned about what he is doing, where he is going. Apparently it's called community policing. Don't get me wrong I think "bobbies on the beat" is a good thing but strike up relationships with the people of that community not hound them and create resentment and distrust.

I think the flag banning is just insanity! I can't remember the details but a while back those little ones you could get for your car were banned. If a countries flag is so offensive to you why choose to live there?! I really don't see how someone else's pride in their nationality should or could cause offense to anyone. It's starting to feel like showing any kind of national pride is akin to racism in the eyes of local authorities :loopy:

the little flags were not banned, please check your facts.

Where is it that the police are so keen to stop young white men then? (I presume most of the police themselves fall into this group)?

Originally posted by cobaltblue
I have a teenage son and I would agree ZEDEX48K. Maybe it depends on area, where your from etc but my son and his friends are regulary stopped by the police for no reason. Questioned about where they are going, who they are, where they live etc. I'm not talking about gangs of kids, I mean 2 of them walking along the street in daylight. Recently 3 of them on their way to a 16th birthday party @ 6.30 pm were stopped and not allowed to proceed until they had produced card/present/invite to prove where they were off to! My 30 year old brother also has been stopped in the street and questioned about what he is doing, where he is going. Apparently it's called community policing. Don't get me wrong I think "bobbies on the beat" is a good thing but strike up relationships with the people of that community not hound them and create resentment and distrust.

I think the flag banning is just insanity! I can't remember the details but a while back those little ones you could get for your car were banned. If a countries flag is so offensive to you why choose to live there?! I really don't see how someone else's pride in their nationality should or could cause offense to anyone. It's starting to feel like showing any kind of national pride is akin to racism in the eyes of local authorities :loopy:

Originally posted by Cyclone
the little flags were not banned, please check your facts.

Where is it that the police are so keen to stop young white men then? (I presume most of the police themselves fall into this group)?

I did say I couldn't remember the exact details but please read ...

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/news/s/120/120381_flag_ban_for_probation_staff.html

I beleive that does indeed say banned. Please check your facts. And I live in Edinburgh that is the area I am talking about although I'm sure the same happens all over the country.

One thing is obvious, most muslims themselves dont give a toss about people flying their national flag. In fact most ethnic groups themselves see the damage that results from imposing restrictions like this. Once again a few people who feel the need to ultra-belong to a certain group stand up for ideas that the majority niether care for or have even considered. It is this handful of do-gooders, most of whom are actually white, who are generating, fueling and creating racism through their misguided actions. It appears their may be some of these individuals on here.

Originally posted by technophobe
So we cannot celebrate St Georges, the patron saint of our Country. Can you imagine Scotland or Ireland being told they cannot display their Patron Saint/display flags.

I dont think it is anything to do with bloomin health and safety. does that mean I cannot hang washing out on the line because its a fire hazzard......


well Iam going to celebrate it and stick a big **** off flag outside my house!!!! AND YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT

:D
:clap: :clap: :clap: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
NICE ONE!!:D :D
I totally agree with ya!!
so if all this pc garb carries on, in a few yrs time we wont even be allowed to celebrate OUR OWN BIRTHDAYS without offending someone!!:loopy: :rant:

Every year back at home - The George & Dragon pub displays a massive 10m * 10m flag across the front of the pub, in more recent years several of the other pubs have joined in, and now most of the places in the high street do it.

You'll see plenty of kids with faces painted - and some adults, enjoying the day, having a few drinks, meal out with the family etc. I've never seen any evidence where I'm from of discrimination against the St. George's Cross, or anything else 'white'!

Originally posted by Hook
Every year back at home - The George & Dragon pub displays a massive 10m * 10m flag across the front of the pub, in more recent years several of the other pubs have joined in, and now most of the places in the high street do it.

You'll see plenty of kids with faces painted - and some adults, enjoying the day, having a few drinks, meal out with the family etc. I've never seen any evidence where I'm from of discrimination against the St. George's Cross, or anything else 'white'!
Hook I have seen Asian kids with union jacks painted on their faces and flying St.George's flags. As I said. it is a small group of individuals who seem to be hell bent on what is in effect ethnic superiority and not equality. These people all fit the same profile too, psuedo educated social worker types usually white and desperate to feel wanted and revered by the ethnic group they are supposedly standing up for. Unwittingly generating hatred with their constant meddling.

Can't we have one year go by without some small and very petty incident of overkill being inflated into a claim that we're being robbed of our "cultural identity" in the face of enforced multiculturalism?:rolleyes:

I can never decide what's worse, the reactionaries who pander to the idea that ethnic minorities seethe with anger at the mere sight of the English flag or the reactionaries who take everything as an attack on their right to wave the same flag in the air.

I celebrate St George's Day without a second though for the fact that someone might have been slapped on the hand for giving out red roses...if such little things threaten your feelings of identity, then it can't have been that strong in the first place...why not take a little time to get in touch with your inner patriot?:D

Originally posted by cobaltblue
I did say I couldn't remember the exact details but please read ...

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/news/s/120/120381_flag_ban_for_probation_staff.html

I beleive that does indeed say banned. Please check your facts. And I live in Edinburgh that is the area I am talking about although I'm sure the same happens all over the country.

not banned by the council though.

PROBATION service staff have been banned from displaying England flags and emblems in their cars and offices after complaints from their colleagues.

An e-mail ordering the ban was sent from management at Greater Manchester Probation Service to all its 1,200 staff, as Euro 2004 fever grips the country.

Originally posted by AJ sheffield
One thing is obvious, most muslims themselves dont give a toss about people flying their national flag. In fact most ethnic groups themselves see the damage that results from imposing restrictions like this. Once again a few people who feel the need to ultra-belong to a certain group stand up for ideas that the majority niether care for or have even considered. It is this handful of do-gooders, most of whom are actually white, who are generating, fueling and creating racism through their misguided actions. It appears their may be some of these individuals on here.

why, who on here is supporting the banning of our flag?

I haven't seen one post to that effect yet.

Another sign of a do-gooder is the necessity to convince others that rules are rules and all and sundry have and indeed do conform to them. They feel an overwhelming need to convince others that nothing ever strays from these paths that have been laid down by the powers that be. Quoting laws and regulations in an effort to convince us all that nothing can possibly step outside these boundaries. Listening to nobody elses views, dismissing them as ignorant zealots or racists with no intelligence. And if all that fails...take the p*ss out of them for their spelling mistakes or grammatical errors.
If "intellect" breeds arrogance then I prefer to be thick.

Originally posted by Cyclone
why, who on here is supporting the banning of our flag?

I haven't seen one post to that effect yet.
On this forum as in most others do-gooders are abound, thats the reality. Where in my post did I specifically state that someone on here had posted in support of the flag banning idea.

Originally posted by Cyclone
not banned by the council though.


And :? I said they were banned, therefore I am indeed correct in the statement I made in my last post.

Another offshoot to what Cobalt blue posted , re---white , young males being stopped in the street by the police.
Before I mention this , I must admit that I don't have the facts at hand and I would welcome additional info.
It's been an on-going contention that young black people get stopped in the street , disproportionally , vis-a-vis white youngsters. Now , a few years ago , I'm sure I read in a newspaper that although this was true when you took the population of the U.K. , as a whole , into account , it was actually the other way round [in many cases] when the population of the police area only , was considered.
Now , if you are a policeman , touring an area , looking for signs of suspicious or criminal behaviour , you are not even remotely thinking of what's happening in N.Wales or the Isle of Man. You are only concerned with the conditions in your area : and on this evidence it was suggested that black youths were stopped and searched or questioned in the numbers proportional to the area's population .....or were even under-represented !
Strangely enough , this news seemed to get "buried" and I would have thought at least the right-wing press would have brought it up ; that's why I'm more than willing to be proved wrong about it. I may have dreamt it !

Originally posted by AJ sheffield
....... And if all that fails...take the p*ss out of them for their spelling mistakes or grammatical errors.

LOL, Funny and True :hihi:

Originally posted by AJ sheffield
On this forum as in most others do-gooders are abound, thats the reality. Where in my post did I specifically state that someone on here had posted in support of the flag banning idea.

what were you basing it on then?

Originally posted by cobaltblue
And :? I said they were banned, therefore I am indeed correct in the statement I made in my last post.

you weren't correct in the context of the post though were you.

We are clearly talking about in general to the public, not to small groups of people due to specific requests in the workplace.

Indeed they weren't banned from flying them in public, but actually on private property, so not really much of a ban at all.

Originally posted by cobaltblue
http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/news/s/120/120381_flag_ban_for_probation_staff.html
What a load of tripe. That is the sort of story the BNP would make up to win votes. Don't believe a word of it.

Originally posted by Cyclone
you weren't correct in the context of the post though were you.

We are clearly talking about in general to the public, not to small groups of people due to specific requests in the workplace.

Indeed they weren't banned from flying them in public, but actually on private property, so not really much of a ban at all.

I think I have made my point. Are you a mind reader as well now? 3..2..1.. Back in the room .. :rolleyes: anyway moving on...I think I know the context in which I made my statement. :)

Originally posted by Cyclone
what were you basing it on then?
I was of course basing it totally on you and your unnescesary attitude of intellectual superiority and arrogance. Yet again you are making a spectacle of yourself in front of the viewing public. Use your own words to defend your views and not other peoples.
Hmmm I have also seen the content of the posts change as I indeed suspected would happen. I guess all the social workers are clocking out of the battered wives units, all the civil servants revving up their computers in an attempt to make the council estate thickos like me feel inferior :P Ahhhh well.
AJ (not a master of the cut & paste function)

Originally posted by cobaltblue
I think I have made my point. Are you a mind reader as well now? 3..2..1.. Back in the room .. :rolleyes: anyway moving on...I think I know the context in which I made my statement. :)

fine, you were right, the flags were banned.

Oh, except for the 99.999% of the population who didn't work there and apart from the 75% of the week when there cars weren't parked in the work car park.

Indeed we can claim that anything we like is banned now. Indeed I can accurately claim that cobalblue is banned.



I won't bother to clarify that I mean between the hours of 0400 and 0600 in my backyard as that would detract from the shock value of my statement.

Cyclone,
Are you ever anything other than pedantic? Your three thousand plus postings really say the same thing. You are seemingly obsessed with trivial details, under the guise of robust debate. It really does come across as obsessive, humourless and dull. You seem to take everything, and especially yourself, so very seriously. I post for fun, as an antidote to work. You seem to have an opinion on everything under the sun, and woe betide those who dissent from it. In common parlance, old bean, 'lighten up'.

Originally posted by AJ sheffield
I was of course basing it totally on you and your unnescesary attitude of intellectual superiority and arrogance. Yet again you are making a spectacle of yourself in front of the viewing public. Use your own words to defend your views and not other peoples.
Hmmm I have also seen the content of the posts change as I indeed suspected would happen. I guess all the social workers are clocking out of the battered wives units, all the civil servants revving up their computers in an attempt to make the council estate thickos like me feel inferior :P Ahhhh well.
AJ (not a master of the cut & paste function)

very good, can't win the argument so turn to the personal attack.

Why use my own words when I can turn yours around?

To be clear, I would not support the banning of the st George flag. Such a ban would be ridiculous and probably not legal (and rightly so).

What I also don't support is ridiculous stories made up or deliberately misrepresented by people with an agenda like some of the posters in here.

Originally posted by timo
Cyclone,
Are you ever anything other than pedantic? Your three thousand plus postings really say the same thing. You are seemingly obsessed with trivial details, under the guise of robust debate. It really does come across as obsessive, humourless and dull. You seem to take everything, and especially yourself, so very seriously. I post for fun, as an antidote to work. You seem to have an opinion on everything under the sun, and woe betide those who dissent from it. In common parlance, old bean, 'lighten up'.

makes the day pass quickly.
If I want light banter I'll talk to my workmates.

Originally posted by AJ sheffield
One thing is obvious, most muslims themselves dont give a toss about people flying their national flag. In fact most ethnic groups themselves see the damage that results from imposing restrictions like this. Once again a few people who feel the need to ultra-belong to a certain group stand up for ideas that the majority niether care for or have even considered. It is this handful of do-gooders, most of whom are actually white, who are generating, fueling and creating racism through their misguided actions. It appears their may be some of these individuals on here.

I take it that a do-gooder is someone that does not agree with your views? Ok, that must make me one. Funnily enough, I quite like the St. Georges cross and enjoy seeing it displayed. Somehow I think that the rest of the do-gooders on this forum hold the same viewpoint. I suggest that you take one off stories with a pinch of salt and look at the rest of the big picture. No one's taking your flag off you. Paint it on your clothes, tie a flag to your head, and tattoo it on your arse. Seriously, no one cares.

I was going to avoid this thread as it's been done about 800 times. Without sounding like a mod, people should use the search facility before posting. :D

And remember: just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that they're not after you!
:suspect:

Just a few comments on this amusing thread...
1. What do red roses have to do with St George's day? As Yorkshire folk, we shouldn't condone the red rose infiltration.
2. I agree with all who talk about do-goody middle class people pretending to stick up for foreigners. Having taught english to foreign people in London, I can assure you it is they who are most dismayed about the fact that London is overrun with foreigners (their words, not mine). All the immigrants I've spoken to think we should be more nationalistic and proud, not less.
The stockport/manchester/liverpool case seems like the worst possible combination of do-gooder liberals and local council fascists.

Cyclone may be correct that in the specific case mentioned , only a tiny section of the population was affected by the ban on flags.
However , it's difficult to imagine that this was the only place in the country where a ban or an attemted ban took place.
The reason why people get so annoyed at even petty bans is that this country is very , very much over-regulated and ban crazy. Either loads of things have actually been banned or the control freaks are crying out for more things to go on the hit list. No wonder a lot of people in the U.K. either want to leave it , become alcoholics , become drug-addicts , spend half their lives at the doctor's or walk round seething with rage.
The average person from getting up to going to bed is on street cameras , indoor surveillance units or his/her whole life is computerised or logged. That's not to mention the endless paperwork if you want to do something like put up a Maypole or buy a house or a car .....etc....
Perhaps , for many . the St. George's flag ban was the last straw!

Originally posted by Fareast
Cyclone may be correct that in the specific case mentioned , only a tiny section of the population was affected by the ban on flags.
However , it's difficult to imagine that this was the only place in the country where a ban or an attemted ban took place.
The reason why people get so annoyed at even petty bans is that this country is very , very much over-regulated and ban crazy. Either loads of things have actually been banned or the control freaks are crying out for more things to go on the hit list. No wonder a lot of people in the U.K. either want to leave it , become alcoholics , become drug-addicts , spend half their lives at the doctor's or walk round seething with rage.
The average person from getting up to going to bed is on street cameras , indoor surveillance units or his/her whole life is computerised or logged. That's not to mention the endless paperwork if you want to do something like put up a Maypole or buy a house or a car .....etc....
Perhaps , for many . the St. George's flag ban was the last straw!


Now, I think that people read these one off stories and exaggerate the situation in their heads; failing to put it into perspective. I don't know about you, but I've never been affected by a flag ban or similar such thing, nor has anyone I know. I've lived in a few places around the country and I've never come across this problem directly. Have you? The more and more I hear these propagandist stories, the more I think that the 'pc brigade' might just be fictitious.

Clintons are selling St George's Day stuff, flags, balloons, bunting even pens and fridge magnets!

My husband, who is from London, is most impressed. Apparently the councils down there are that frightend of offending anyone they don't allow anyone to display anything like St George's day flags. Actually, it's only St George's Day stuff that's banned he's just informed me, not anyone elses, now there's a surprise!

Originally posted by karenjane39
Clintons are selling St George's Day stuff, flags, balloons, bunting even pens and fridge magnets!

My husband, who is from London, is most impressed. Apparently the councils down there are that frightend of offending anyone they don't allow anyone to display anything like St George's day flags. Actually, it's only St George's Day stuff that's banned he's just informed me, not anyone elses, now there's a surprise!


I do feel rather like i'm drowing in the tide of FUD and gullability here. Basically I don't believe that what you are saying is true, have you actually done any research to check the facts?

Originally posted by karenjane39
My husband, who is from London, is most impressed. Apparently the councils down there are that frightend of offending anyone they don't allow anyone to display anything like St George's day flags. Actually, it's only St George's Day stuff that's banned he's just informed me, not anyone elses, now there's a surprise!

Again, this isn't true at all, is it?

There's a quote that goes along the lines of "if you repeat a lie often enough it becomes the truth". Seems applicable here.

Originally posted by karenjane39
My husband, who is from London, is most impressed. Apparently the councils down there are that frightend of offending anyone they don't allow anyone to display anything like St George's day flags. Actually, it's only St George's Day stuff that's banned he's just informed me, not anyone elses, now there's a surprise!

Yes, a big surprise.

St George's Day (http://eu.visitlondon.com/whats_on/st_george_index.html)

Saturday 23 April is St Georges Day. Join in the fun at one of the many special events happening this year. Spectacular celebrations supported by the Mayor of London are taking place at Trafalgar Square and Shakespeares Globe.

Feel free to correct your husband on behalf of all at SheffieldForum :|

Originally posted by Cyclone
I do feel rather like i'm drowing in the tide of FUD and gullability here. Basically I don't believe that what you are saying is true, have you actually done any research to check the facts?

One split second search on google and first hit showed this -

http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/news/topstories/display.var.571913.0.st_george_snubbed_by_hounslow _councillors.php

I find it completely arrogant and ignorant to basically call someone a liar and accuse them of conducting no research when you clearly can't be bothered yourself to conduct any research to back up your dismissal of someone's opinion, that is anyone that has audacity to disagree with you.

No-one has said that there has been a nation-wide ban on flags by every council/local authority but there have without doubt been incidents in certain areas where this has happened. That you cannot deny .... no-one is imagining it and no its not a lie repeated often enough that we all believe it.

I shall proudly display a St George flag because i'm proud to be English. A Union Jack because I'm also British, A flag for St Patrick because my maternal grandfather was born in Ireland and a welsh dragon because my father was welsh. And just for good measure a picture of Sean Bean because he's a Sheffield lad. If I've missed anybody out please send me a flag and I'll display that as well. I Sheffield council decide to object tough.

you're obviously not used to debate then. You have to proof your assertions, I'm not going to go around and check every 'fact' that someone posts on here.

and whatsmore, it doesn't even support the point that was made.

let me demonstrate.

Apparently the councils down there are that frightend of offending anyone they don't allow anyone to display anything like St George's day flags.

for a start it's one council, not councils. And secondly it's the council itself that chose not to display the flag. they didn't ban anyone else from doing so.
That's like claiming that i've banned the flag from my house by choosing not to display one myself. Idiocy.

These stories are just non-events that have being exagerated and manipulated by people with a political agenda, all the facts are lost somewhere in the rush to make up another "political correctness gone mad" story.

The news about the bloke in Liverpool? He was asked to remove the flags by the council because of an incident that happened last year...

" We were responding to police reports of an accident last year, when one of the flags became loose and flew into the windscreen of a car, causing an emergency stop.

"The flags will be up this year and be safe. It has to be done safely with the correct brackets."

http://snipurl.com/e4uv

The whole thing has been resolved now, there was no "do-gooder brigade" or offended muslims or political correctness. The flags are going up, safely this time.

Still, it's always a chuckle watching people scaring and winding themselves up over nothing.

Originally posted by Ousetunes
It had to happen didn't it? A bloke in Manchester has been ordered by the pander-to-the-muslims council to take down his 20 or so St. George's flags. As usual, they don't have the face to be honest enough to admit why he has to do so, other than it is a 'fire hazard'.

In Stockport, market traders have been told they cannot give red roses to their customers on St. George's day. No explanation given, but we know there's an election coming up and Stockport does have a Muslim 'community' to be looked after/pandered to (delete as applicable).

not read the thread as i'm a bit busy but i have a flag flying in my back garden and 2 on my car and i aint moving them for no one:rant: :rant: :rant:

English and proud does not mean rascist:rant: :rant: :rant:

As far as I'm aware it is Hackney Borough Council.

My life is too full to spend time finding quotes from councillors etc.
Someone's actual experience will do for me.

I'm not telling any lies as far as I am aware.
But won't care one jot if someone manages to spend hours finding out that I am wrong.

Cobaltblue,
Do not take any notice of Cyclone's ridiculous 'You are obviously not used to debate' jibes. Cyclone appears to have deluded himself into believing that he is a front-rank intellectual, and that the postings on Sheffield Forum constitute 'debate' of some serious, rigorous depth. Nothing could be further from the truth, on both counts. The kindest and wisest thing we can do is to laugh at him. Ha ha, ho ho ho.

LOL Timo, your right :D and I have had quite a laugh today!

People always moan that we don’t do enough to celebrate st.Georges day. But this is kind’a becoming our own little tradition isn’t it?

Every year without fail, some bored sub-editor on a tabloid puts out a story about how someone has been forced to take their flags from their office/shop/public building (delete where appropriate) and we all talk about it!!

Gotta love the English and their cute traditions......

As someone far smarter than me once said

“It’s base irony, but I like it”

MOD: Similar threads merged.

There have been incidents where neurotic bores have tried to forbid expressions of 'Englishness'. The case of the elderly pensioner in Toxteth, who was cautioned by angry, unwanted young policemen in Toxteth for flying the flag of Saint George, together with the slogan, 'Save the Pound', a couple of years ago springs to mind. They were worried that he might upset the delicate balance of the multicultural 'melting pot' that is Liverpool 8, with his English patriotism. Had he been a member of the Inuit community and slaughtered a walrus on Hope Street in broad daylight, they would have turned a blind eye.

However, these cases are few and far between. There is no reason , therefore, why those so inclined should not fly the flag, and celebrate belonging to a wonderful nation. We can do so, generally speaking, without fear or favour. We have much to celebrate, after all. Our womenfolk have the largest breasts in Europe, we invented the traffic cones hotline, and our schoolchildren, by my reckoning, are the finest makers of plasticine worms in the world.

Originally posted by timo
.....and our schoolchildren, by my reckoning, are the finest makers of plasticine worms in the world.

I'll have you know that many students in higher education are still head and shoulders above Europe in the plasticine worm makers table.

I know that- I teach the beggars!

Originally posted by timo
Our womenfolk have the largest breasts in Europe

Is this before or after a boobjob?

Before, old bean. In most cases, enhancement is not necessary.

Originally posted by timo
Before, old bean. In most cases, enhancement is not necessary.

Interesting...how did you come up with that conclusion?

Did you tour Europe in the name of research...or did you just read various gentlemens magazines on the subject :D

It was, as you will imagine, a combination of 'hands on' ethnographic field research in the nightclubs, casinos and racecourses of Europe, and a scholarly perusal of the [ahem] 'literature' on the subject.

Originally posted by AJ sheffield
Anyone remember this.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2981038.stm
This when politicall correctness really starts to hit home.
Read it and weep chaps :rant:
EDIT : I have noticed how threads involving race usually contain the thoughts and opinions of real everyday common people who are living with the reality of enforced multiculturalism. People from real world housing estates who everday feel they are being sold out by the powers that be. This usually reflects in the content of the posts. At least that is until 4:30 when all the social workers get home from work ;) In my opinion its the people who are driven by political correctness who are ignorant to the opinions of others, its these very people who will accept no other views and opinions from anyone and will immediately brand anyone whos views clash with theirs a racist.

Got to agree here. That article just proves everything we need to know: the thought police are out big time.

Trouble is, they see our country as a larger version of CBeebies, where every group of people has to be vetted to ensure it contains an asian, a full-on black person, someone of chinese, japanese descent and someone is a wheel-chair.

It would be preferable if the wheel-chair and the ethnic person was one and the same.

Otherwise, the BBC play it safe by having groups of people from a multitude of different coloured backgrounds: green, red, yellow and blue.

Yes, the Tweenies and the Teletubbies. An astute piece of mollycoddling of our thoughts (or our children's) from the PC brigade.

The word 'racist' is being used as a device to stop political debate. IMO the BBC are actually portraying a misleading image of the make up of this country's peoples.

That is something I find truly worrying.

Originally posted by Greenback
I wish people would actually READ instead of glancing at a headline and making up the rest themselves.

The Lib Dem council in Stockport are refusing to fund half the cost of red roses on St George's Day because they are viewed as a symbol of support for Labour.

Daft? yeah, probably. But where Muslims come into that I really haven't got a clue. :rolleyes:

FYI Greenback, my source was the BBC's Teletext service. I beg your forgiveness.

Originally posted by Ousetunes
... the thought police are out big time.

....That is something I find truly worrying.


Better get the tin foil hat out.

Originally posted by Ousetunes
FYI Greenback, my source was the BBC's Teletext service. I beg your forgiveness.

Fair enough, sorry for the tone - I didn't intend to have a go at you personally, I was more commenting on the way in which non-stories get hijacked by the "woe is whitey" brigade.

Originally posted by Ousetunes
IMO the BBC are actually portraying a misleading image of the make up of this country's peoples.

That is something I find truly worrying.

Why?

The BBC are probably guilty of the charge - but I just laugh at it to be honest, and can't really see why it's so worrying. The idea is to promote inclusiveness, and that's a perfectly worthy motive.

What's infinitely more disturbing is when a prat like former cricketer Brian Close describes a mural at Headingley, based on a real photograph and featuring an Asian woman in a sari, thus: "I just think this whole thing is ridiculous,” he said. "Whoever designed the gates must have got a nut loose.”

Implication: we don't want no pakis at the cricket.

I bet Brian Close mutters a lot about the PC brigade, too.

Originally posted by timo
Cobaltblue,
Do not take any notice of Cyclone's ridiculous 'You are obviously not used to debate' jibes. Cyclone appears to have deluded himself into believing that he is a front-rank intellectual, and that the postings on Sheffield Forum constitute 'debate' of some serious, rigorous depth. Nothing could be further from the truth, on both counts. The kindest and wisest thing we can do is to laugh at him. Ha ha, ho ho ho.

Do you think you could for a minute try to stick to the topic rather than attacking people who disagree with you or wandering off into lala land with your purile and tedious ramblings.

Greenback, I understand your point, but what I'm trying to get at is that it's almost like the BBC - or some other body - are trying to do the thinking for you. Like 'When you go out into the Big World you'll be confronted by this and that', not, 'Go out into the world and see what you can find'.

It sounds more contentious because the issue here is the ethnicity of people, their backgrounds and cultures. Yes, it's no bad thing to have presenters on Cbeebies from a whole plethora of backgrounds, but I find it well, quite insulting to me as a parent that the BBC goes to the extreme of a prgramme like Balamory. Here, in the outer regions of Scotland we find a little fishing village with the same multicultural make-up of somewhere like Brent or Haringey. This isn't a true reflection and that's my argument.

Let our children discover - first hand - the country and world they live in, instead of being patronised into believing that, for example, a town akin to Oban is a fair, accurate reflection on the society we live in.

My argument probably sounds harsh in that we're talking about race - but only in this instance. (My voice is hushed, a bit like Dan Cruikshank as I re-read this post before submitting - and waiting, biting my nails....,):P

I just think - if it makes one little black/asian BRITISH child feel better about themselves because there's someone of their colour on their favourite TV programme, why are you bothered? It seems a little petty.

well in schools as I understand it you can no longer call a blackboard a blackboard but a chalk board! because it might offend!. Well the board is a board and it is coloured black!??

What do they call, dare I say it?, a white board!???


I am no way racist, just sick of pathetic rules!!!!

Originally posted by Ousetunes
Yes, it's no bad thing to have presenters on Cbeebies from a whole plethora of backgrounds, but I find it well, quite insulting to me as a parent that the BBC goes to the extreme of a prgramme like Balamory. Here, in the outer regions of Scotland we find a little fishing village with the same multicultural make-up of somewhere like Brent or Haringey. This isn't a true reflection and that's my argument.

Shame on you for insulting Balamory! May an army of toddlers be set upon your home! :)

(Fair point)

Originally posted by Cyclone
Do you think you could for a minute try to stick to the topic rather than attacking people who disagree with you or wandering off into lala land with your purile and tedious ramblings.

If you're insisting that we stick to topic on all postings Cyclone then please refrain from lecturing other users on the art of debate. You're hardly qualified to deliver instruction.

As for your words about my good friend Timo I have never found him to be puerile or tedious, quite on the contrary actually- he's an artisan of prose and I never tire of his conversation.

Originally posted by ZEDEX48K
well in schools as I understand it you can no longer call a blackboard a blackboard but a chalk board! because it might offend!. Well the board is a board and it is coloured black!??

What do they call, dare I say it?, a white board!???


I am no way racist, just sick of pathetic rules!!!!

That's a retro story. That one was being thrown around when I was in school 20 years ago. Funnily enough, I've never heard of any school actually enforcing it. In fact I can remember blackboards being called blackboards all the way through school. My friends who are now teachers still call them blackboards, and the lecturers at the university I work at still call them blackboards.

It's good to see that these silly little stories are not new, but have been around for quite some time. I love the way people just accept them too. It's so gullible and childlike. Bless!

Originally posted by ZEDEX48K
well in schools as I understand it you can no longer call a blackboard a blackboard but a chalk board! because it might offend!. Well the board is a board and it is coloured black!??

What do they call, dare I say it?, a white board!???

Don't most schools use wipe-clean boards now anyway? That are colored white - hence "whiteboard"?

Originally posted by Greenback
Don't most schools use wipe-clean boards now anyway? That are colored white - hence "whiteboard"?

How dare you correct your spelling mistake before I could get in my witty quip about wiping "scholls" on my doormat!!:D

Originally posted by JonJParr
If you're insisting that we stick to topic on all postings Cyclone then please refrain from lecturing other users on the art of debate. You're hardly qualified to deliver instruction.

As for your words about my good friend Timo I have never found him to be puerile or tedious, quite on the contrary actually- he's an artisan of prose and I never tire of his conversation.

I'm not insisting on anything, but wandering wildly away from the topic (as we are now doing) is generally frowned upon and annoying to everyone.
How do you know what my qualifications are or aren't? I wasn't lecturing I was explaining why I wasn't going to try and prove something that had been dropped into the conversation as an unsupported assertion.
I'm glad you enjoy Timo's postings. Maybe you can go and start a nonesense thread specifically so that you can enjoy them in peace.

I suppose the BBC are just erring on the side of caution, although it probably is taking PC a bit too far if they try to ensure that every program has the token minority actor to keep up appearances.

Originally posted by cgksheff
How dare you correct your spelling mistake before I could get in my witty quip about wiping "scholls" on my doormat!!:D

Got to keep up to standard given my sig - nice pun, anyway! :D

Originally posted by Greenback
Got to keep up to standard given my sig - nice pun, anyway! :D

It says 606 postings, not 600.

Come on, Greenback, yer standards are slipping:o

Originally posted by Ousetunes
It says 606 postings, not 600.

Come on, Greenback, yer standards are slipping:o

Grammatically correct but factually lacking, 'tis true. I shall change it, thus:

Originally posted by Andy78
It's good to see that these silly little stories are not new, but have been around for quite some time. I love the way people just accept them too. It's so gullible and childlike. Bless!

Good point andy - many of the press stories from the 80s and 90s just weren't true - you ARE allowed to sing ba ba black sheep in schools, and you are allowed to refer to them as black bin bags, and the reason they are now called white boards is because they are..err..white.

I know its off topic but i think its really rude of you to say that they're token minority actors. I'd like to see you say that to one of their faces. Some black peoples families have been here for generations and are just as british as you, and deserve to be on BBC programmes cos of their talent. (yes, perhaps I am a little too attached to balamory :) )

Besides balamory is a fictional TV programme. (If I could do the little smilie with the hand going in loops round the head then I would!)

Jon J Parr,
Thankyou, my dear friend, for your kind words. Poor Cyclone will never have the self-knowledge to realise that the joke is most firmly upon him, and that it is he who so many posters find pedantic, banal and absolutist in his views. If I were not a gentleman, I would produce the pms I have received to support my assertion. Of course, that would transgress the rules of the forum too.

Re Ousetunes' views upon Ballamoray; it may seem to some mean-spirited to attack a much-loved childrens' television programme. My neices adore it. However, despite Kathythebean's [whom I respect] cogent point about the historical presence of black people in Britain, I tend to agree with Ousetunes.

Firstly, there has been a 'black presence' in Britain, going back two thousand years to the time of the Romans. A few, it is estimated by geneticists, Roman soldiers were of African origin and have ensured that the Duffy gene is present in some 'white' populations. The Somali community of Toxteth are regarded as the oldest in Britain, and it is worth mentioning that Queen Elizabeth the First is on record as having publicly inveighed against the 'numbers of blacks and tawnys [sic]' in Britain. That said, the numbers were very, very small in relative terms. Even now, census returns tell us that approximately 94% of the population is 'white'.

With this in mind, programmes such as Ballamoray are unrealistic. Kathy might reasonably counter that the programme is 'fictional'. Yes, but we have to be careful regarding issues of race, ethnicity and culture. Our so-called 'Multicultural' society is hardly at ease with itself after half a century. Indeed, ancient, irremediable grudges between certain groups exist in many parts of the country. Why does Ballamoray cause such fuss? Because it is patronising, and appears to reflect a 'Multicultural' agenda, as if the purpose is political. Here, it would appear to some, we have an attempt to indoctrinate, to inculcate the values of 'Multiculturalism' upon the young.

The programme is also deeply patronising to ethnic minority citizens. Here we have depicted a remote Scottish island, with a 'melting pot' of a population. It is as if Hackney had been transported to the Hebrides.

Blimey, nice to see my throwaway thread has gathered momentum - allbeit via a thread merge or two! am grateful of the exposure and would like to thank all MODS concerned . ha

Originally posted by JonJParr

As for your words about my good friend Timo I have never found him to be puerile or tedious, quite on the contrary actually- he's an artisan of prose and I never tire of his conversation.

i second that, i enjoy reading Timo's observations

Timo, as I'm sure you already know, we live in a multicultural society whether anyone likes it or not. 'Multicultural' simply means a multitude of different cultures. To stop Britain being multicultural, we would have to not only get rid of all immigrants, but homogenise the remainding people (gays, racists, pc do-gooders, hippies, academics, tories, liberals, etc)into one single bloc that so that we all had the same 'culture'.

'Multicultralist' on the other hand, refers to the way in which, as a society, we should deal with the different cultures in our society. It is opposed to the assimilationist policies of yesteryear, when other cultures were supposed to assimilate into some half-baked idea of British culture (ie cricket, fish and chips, straight hunting men and women at home doing the cooking) that not many white Brits themselves would identify with nowadays. It does not mean uncritically accepting minority cultures, nor does it encompass just the ethnic minorities and leave out the white majority. It is supposed to be a dialogue, a way of negotiating a basic level of operational values that we can all abide by. By and large, I think it has failed in Britain but that is for another days discussion.

On the subject of balamory, this is a programme for children. For children, watching people of different skin colours and different genders getting along in a normal way with no mention of racism or disadvantage, is a good thing, even if its not strictly true to reality. For white children it will give them a blueprint for how to behave with others. For ethnic minority kids it will give them a more inclusive sense of belonging to British society. I think those are both worthwhile things.

Kathy,
I respect your views, and you are honest enough to admit that the 'social experiment' has not worked. However, the problem with 'Multiculturalism' [and I understand fully the 'Assimilation' ideas, which, ironically Trevor Phillips of CRE now suggests we return to...] is that it appears to champion all cultures but those of the various socio-economic groups within the white majority.

You, Greenback and other good posters, are correct to point out some of the false allegations re 'political correctness' that abound in the tabloid press. However, I have met people who do not believe we should be allowed to fly the flag [keeping this on thread], who believe that it is associated forever with extreme forms of nationalism. People are out there, so to speak, in senior positions in education, social work etc, who are so brainwashed as to deny their 'Englishness' in the first instance. I remember watching a chat show in the 90s, in which Clare Short MP vehemently rejected her 'English' nationality, despite being born here. She would only, reluctantly, admit to being 'British' because of English 'interference' in Irish affairs over the centuries, and the fact that her father was Irish.

Re the term, 'culture'. In sociological terms, as you will know, it refers to the sum total of values and norms in any given human society. In the case of 'Multi' cultures, how is it possible for social cohesion when there are so many groups, largely concentrated in our inner-city areas, with widely differing norms and values? Durkheim might say that it is a recipe for anomie! It is certainly no better than the idea of 'assimilation', and in any case, I am not convinced that certain interpretations of Islam [I refer specifically to the Wahabist tradition] ever can be assimilated into our capitalist, democratic, secular society.

Just a few thoughts. They are not intended to offend anyone.

Originally posted by timo
Jon J Parr,
Thankyou, my dear friend, for your kind words. Poor Cyclone will never have the self-knowledge to realise that the joke is most firmly upon him, and that it is he who so many posters find pedantic, banal and absolutist in his views. If I were not a gentleman, I would produce the pms I have received to support my assertion. Of course, that would transgress the rules of the forum too.

Re Ousetunes' views upon Ballamoray; it may seem to some mean-spirited to attack a much-loved childrens' television programme. My neices adore it. However, despite Kathythebean's [whom I respect] cogent point about the historical presence of black people in Britain, I tend to agree with Ousetunes.

Firstly, there has been a 'black presence' in Britain, going back two thousand years to the time of the Romans. A few, it is estimated by geneticists, Roman soldiers were of African origin and have ensured that the Duffy gene is present in some 'white' populations. The Somali community of Toxteth are regarded as the oldest in Britain, and it is worth mentioning that Queen Elizabeth the First is on record as having publicly inveighed against the 'numbers of blacks and tawnys [sic]' in Britain. That said, the numbers were very, very small in relative terms. Even now, census returns tell us that approximately 94% of the population is 'white'.

With this in mind, programmes such as Ballamoray are unrealistic. Kathy might reasonably counter that the programme is 'fictional'. Yes, but we have to be careful regarding issues of race, ethnicity and culture. Our so-called 'Multicultural' society is hardly at ease with itself after half a century. Indeed, ancient, irremediable grudges between certain groups exist in many parts of the country. Why does Ballamoray cause such fuss? Because it is patronising, and appears to reflect a 'Multicultural' agenda, as if the purpose is political. Here, it would appear to some, we have an attempt to indoctrinate, to inculcate the values of 'Multiculturalism' upon the young.

The programme is also deeply patronising to ethnic minority citizens. Here we have depicted a remote Scottish island, with a 'melting pot' of a population. It is as if Hackney had been transported to the Hebrides.

This is precisely my point, eloquently put (okay, so the old dictionary had to come out).

Timo - not for the first time, I salute thee.:thumbsup:

You know, Ousetunes, everyone comes round to me eventually. The ranks of the Timo Loyalists are swelling with every week. Thankyou for your kind words.

Ah ha, I'd nearly forgotten about this thread!

Keeping this on thread, I would defend anyones right to fly a english flag. I own an england football shirt, although if I were to fly a flag it would probably be the union jack. However, if someone else thinks it is forever tainted with extreme forms of nationalism and wants to deny their englishness forever, then fair enough. There are plenty of other people who are too far the other way - fulfilling that nationalist stereotype.

Timo - I hope we can agree that clare short is ridiculous and should be kept out of all meaningful debate. :) Having got that off my chest, I'll continue.

That multiculturalism has long seemed to be the kingdom of other cultures and not the white british one has been a problem long recognised by academics. In my opnion it cuts right to the core of the backlash we're seeing at the moment. It is not simply enough to say that multiculturalism has not worked. Unless you agree with mass deportation of settled migrants you must also put forward a coherent vision for future policy or you risk leaving the issue entirely to the Kilroy Silks of this world. (This is not a challenge to you personally, timo! just a general observation)

Kathy,
I take your point here. It is not enough to say that 'Multiculturalism' does not work. However, until very recently it was extremely necessary to keep on saying it, because politicians of the left/liberal consensus would not even debate the issue. To dare to qestion the ehos was to invite accusations of racism. Since, what cynics might call, the 'real' Islamic Awareness week of 9th Sept, and the riots in the former Lancashire mill towns, even the CRE now recognise the redundancy of the idea.

You are correct to suggest that we need 'a way forward'. Where does it lie? The only way, bar the dreaded idea of 'voluntary repatriation' [which I do not advocate], lies in the Assimilationist model, for some. Does it have to be one or the other? Is only a unitary, reductionist solution suffice? I do not know. What I do know is that Britain is [excuse the reification] not a society at ease with itself, and the airy vision suggested by Roy Jenkins in the 60s, of a land in which different ethnic groups lived together in an 'atmosphere of mutual tolerance' seems no nearer to reality than it must have done back then.

Posters, like the clever and very sincere Greenback, genuinely believe that this mutual tolerance can be achieved. The out-group enmity present in the human species per se, tells me that it cannot.