The evolution or creation topic is great for my RE studies thanks! I just wondered if anyone had had an out of body experience, or a near death experience that they could re-tell to me?

Hi Caprice,
I have never had an out of body experience, but I once joined a group in Sheffield many years ago called "Eckinkar", ( the path of the spirit ,) who claimed they could, by concentrating on the pitutory gland leave their body and travel the Universe. There was a Grand Master who one could contact at any time of night or day for help and they sold lots of very expensive books on the subject, Needless to say, I did not buy any and finally dropped out, but it was an intrigueing thought at the time.

The technique you are reffering to is more commonly known as Astral Travel.

it involves deep meditiation and almost trance like state. In theory you can travels all over the world, inbetween realms and to other peoples dreams.

No I haven't done it BTW :D

Moon Maiden

At the time I was very interested but deeply sceptical, as to me it seemed an outrageous claim. However, we do not know everything about the spirit world or indeed much at all, so I have an open mind on the subject. What we need is proof, to convince us but how do we get that?

Lets face it, anyone can tell us anything and when they are making a lot of money out of it, it makes one very cynical.

Originally posted by "Moon Maiden"

The technique you are reffering to is more commonly known as Astral Travel.

it involves deep meditiation and almost trance like state. In theory you can travels all over the world, inbetween realms and to other peoples dreams.

No I haven't done it BTW :D

Moon Maiden
Hmmmm Astral Projection as it is called by Keith Morgan.
It looks quite easy (on paper), as the book itself is pretty thin!

But upon reading it, it seems very complicated and I would love to be able to do it, I just haven't got the self belief to be able to (I don't think).

How cool would it be tho to be able to!

Originally posted by "halevan"

Hi Caprice,
I have never had an out of body experience, but I once joined a group in Sheffield many years ago called "Eckinkar", ( the path of the spirit ,) who claimed they could, by concentrating on the pitutory gland leave their body and travel the Universe. There was a Grand Master who one could contact at any time of night or day for help and they sold lots of very expensive books on the subject, Needless to say, I did not buy any and finally dropped out, but it was an intrigueing thought at the time.

Jus tout of interest Hal, was it definitely the pituitary gland, not the pineal gland? I understand they are quite close together

Interestingly the pineal gland is not made from brain tissue at all.

I ask because I am currently looking quite closely at the Pineal gland as related to 'unusual experiences' and its ability to release certain chemicals.

Well, I conducted an experiment through my website at the beginning of last year with some of the members of my forum.

There were five of us. Two located in Canada and three in England. My hubby who can travel astrally quite easily was an overseer.
At the time I and one of the people in Canada had never attempted this before and the other two people were okay with it.

We assigned ourselves a partner, so that Canada was paired with a Brit. Each thought of a word, a book, a film and held a thought of a picture in our minds and then attempted to astrally project. These were provately mailed to the overseer for clarification afterwards.

Only two of us made it to what are called the 'astral planes' myself and the other novice went to the land of nod.

The results were quite interesting in that the pair that did manage to go to astral travel managed to give each other the information they chose before they travelled.

Of course you can tear into this as much as you like and you are welcoe to. But it was pretty wierd.

Moon Maiden

Originally posted by "Moon Maiden"

Well, I conducted an experiment through my website at the beginning of last year with some of the members of my forum.

There were five of us. Two located in Canada and three in England. My hubby who can travel astrally quite easily was an overseer.
At the time I and one of the people in Canada had never attempted this before and the other two people were okay with it.

We assigned ourselves a partner, so that Canada was paired with a Brit. Each thought of a word, a book, a film and held a thought of a picture in our minds and then attempted to astrally project. These were provately mailed to the overseer for clarification afterwards.

Only two of us made it to what are called the 'astral planes' myself and the other novice went to the land of nod.

The results were quite interesting in that the pair that did manage to go to astral travel managed to give each other the information they chose before they travelled.

Of course you can tear into this as much as you like and you are welcoe to. But it was pretty wierd.

Moon Maiden
Might have to give it a go!

Originally posted by "Moon Maiden"

Well, I conducted an experiment through my website at the beginning of last year with some of the members of my forum.

There were five of us. Two located in Canada and three in England. My hubby who can travel astrally quite easily was an overseer.
At the time I and one of the people in Canada had never attempted this before and the other two people were okay with it.

We assigned ourselves a partner, so that Canada was paired with a Brit. Each thought of a word, a book, a film and held a thought of a picture in our minds and then attempted to astrally project. These were provately mailed to the overseer for clarification afterwards.

Only two of us made it to what are called the 'astral planes' myself and the other novice went to the land of nod.

The results were quite interesting in that the pair that did manage to go to astral travel managed to give each other the information they chose before they travelled.

Of course you can tear into this as much as you like and you are welcoe to. But it was pretty wierd.

Moon Maiden
Hehe, I dunno about tear into it, obviously your experiment isn't in any way scientific, although that does not detract from its reality or susbtance.

For me to accept it I would have to either experience it myself or see it done at close quarters in a randomised double blind study. However, in my investigation into the Pineal Gland and its activity in the brain i have seen some strange things indeed. Current scientific thinking doesn't know the half of t.....

Well when you work with magick and the occult, it is a good idea to at least try to see if it something works as it is purported to.
This was our attempt.

We have been trying to organise another one for the last year, but the mundane and time differences are getting in the way.

Moon Maiden

...however, in my investigation into the Pineal Gland and its activity in the brain i have seen some strange things indeed. Current scientific thinking doesn't know the half of it.....

Such as?

Originally posted by "waxy chuff"

...however, in my investigation into the Pineal Gland and its activity in the brain i have seen some strange things indeed. Current scientific thinking doesn't know the half of it.....

Such as?

Well, Obviously I only do research and when I say 'I have seen' I mean 'I have imagined, whilst sitting on the bog'. Just to make that quite clear.

This, however happened to a friend of mine.:wink:

(please bear in mind the difficulty of conveying ideas for which there are no words at all)

(I have also edited out quite a bit of technical detail on how to induce this state lest people try it for themselves)


Originally posted by "User Oblomov, on a bulletin board far far away"


These 3 experiences were remarkably similar :
going from abstract eidetic CEV (closed eye visuals) into the familiar rotating and locking planes that then do this wierd *rotation* and I'm through into 'Flatworld' a multi-D space with vibrant but not glaring colours.

Boxy, rectilinear, tron like - all surfaces composed of convolving glyphs and symbols, which on closer inspection are multilayered. Very beatific/peaceful.

Excursion 3 sees me smoothly moving through 'tronworld' into 'the kindergarten' - All much more curvy and brighly lit, large open structures moving through a vast space, and I am in/on one . Surface of this 'kindergarten ship' is again convolving glyphs and symbols, but much more multicoloured and intricate. Surface is studded with fantastically intricate animated ovoids that are constantlychanging and clamouring for my focus. Sensation of other entities there, slightly disappointed that I 'dont get it' - I feel a bit stupid, but it's no biggie.

Then last night. Well......
The usual start, rushing flow of eidetic images unfolding into this space, but I am still accelerating......

Into tronworld, but I am saying, 'seen this, interesting and pretty, but let's get on'.

Just as well, because looking back at it, I was powerless to resist the acceleration. Shot through and out of tronland into Kindergarten space (these are precisely the same places I saw in the last 3 excursions), but only for a moment, before being propelled into...

... the machine room. It's loud and hectic, everything is moving so fast, and its so bright and clear, sharper than reality you might say. My whole 'visual' field is flooding in as an entire gestalt. I am utterly disoriented, not frightened, but hanging on to my somatic reality as hard as I can. Two entities in the machine room (machines themsleves?) are being very persistent in trying to communicate important things to me, but I am confused, disoriented -

Everything is SO COMPLICATED! The entities are large, part machine things. Their surface is made from a grid/matrix of flattened spheres, metallic in appeareance but UTTERLY OTHER AND UNFAMILIAR.

Their whole surface is made up of thousands of these spheres, some in a partial casing as if on gimbals, others free floating. Interior of entity is suffused cloud of light, pulsing colours in synch with its intent/actions.

I can feel some nausea in the pit of my stomache (lack of food, hunger) - I indicate my overwhelmedness to my new friends, and my intention toopen my eyes. all hell breaks loose! Alarms Klaxons, lots of red warning glyphs everywhere. The surfaces of the entities light up (GOD ITS SO BRIGHT) telling me (not ordering me) that to do so would be inadvisable.

Open my eyes. living room is still there, but only just. machine room is there too - brain hurts from seeing two realities simultaneously and eyes go closed. Gradually I get the message. Your autonomic system will take care of everything, don't worry.

Become conscious of my breathing and start to try and take control of it.
More klaxons, red alert symbols. Enities try and show me (using stuff that looks like its from Kindergarten space) a device that is monitoring/controlling respiratory function. It looks like a diagrammatic representation of a trachea on a passively illumintade display. It is moving and it holds my gaze solid in the same way as happens in 'kindergarten'

I keep thinking that this must be over soon, it's been ages. I start to calm down and all I can do is gawp like a country cousin. Everything is moving fast with a real smooth motion, stuff happening everywhere, superfast machine noises and sussurration. Very Exciting

Settle in to things a bit better. It is explained that this was a bad dive, a messy entry into the space and as a consequence I went into a flatspin for a while. Whole experience starts to take on much less frightening inetnsity although the machine room is still there (still there? shouldnt this have worn off minutes ago?) Everything is much calmer (but still utterly baffling). I am smiling a lot now, realising that I had my jaw tightly clenched. Smiling illuminates the space with a warm friendly feeling. 'OK' I say, 'that was a bit mad' - 'Yes' is the reply hangin in the air.
I feel a sense of concern, and a sort of head patting affection for frightened child... and then I'm pushing back to the surface and reality asserts itself with me thinking I am going to have to do this again, and echoes of agreement are heard back in the machine room.
NOTES
This was not in any way a bad trip. It was however a great deal of food for thought. I have given a lot of time to mulling over the question of the entities encountered in this induced state of mind . Until now they had always been mere suggestions of what I met last night. Like they were cloaking themselves in visual terms I could understand, but last night, all the coating was stripped away.


I really don't know how strange that sounds, but believe me, it was very very strange at the time (so Oblomov tells me).

This guy wasn't using Salvia Div was he?? I have seen a very similar report from a friend who uses Shamanic herbs for trance state.

Moon Maiden

I had something similar happen to me when my ex brewed me some mushroom tea and drove me to Leeds. Silly girl put about a hundred and fifty in. Nearly bloody killed me.

Let me make this very clear, what we are talking about here is not what you'd characterise as a mushroom or acid trip.

There's no interference with the ego, no sense of personal profundity, no sensation of all things locking together in a cosmic web. You are still you, intact complete and catapulted into this 'other place'. More than your usual number of dimensions, extra colours, stuff made out of linguistic matter, that is both an object and a message at the same time.

The experience I posted is not an extreme one.

No MoonMaiden, not Salvia. It is the material in my sig, n,n-Dimethyltryptamine, as produced by the pineal gland. Except its vaporised and inhaled, rather than endogenously released.

Bhuddist monks have inhaled this stuff and said of it - 'These are the lights of the Inner Bardo' i.e. one can go no further without being unable to return.

My thesis is that all mystical and numinous experiences that affect humans are in some way involved with the pineal gland and the endogenous release of DMT into the brain. Specifically the kind of revelatory msytical experience where the victim/blessed one feels they are in the presence of great or terrifically advanced or powerful beings. Encounters with angels, aliens, technological probes, giant insects. Also experiences where the victim is utterly transported to another, beautiful paradisical place.

All these experiences have strong echoes with the DMT experience and I wonder whether they aren't all related. (and I'm certainly not the only one).

What it actually does, whether it is all a fabrication, or it really is some chaotic key that unlocks an internal window to what lies beyond the mundane is a matter of some debate, even inside my own head. My scientist rational side says that it must all be generated internally, and even aspects of your own mind can seem alien to you, considering how small a part of your mind the actual 'Me' part of it is. My romantic/spiritual side imagines that this state of mind actually is some channel of communication to another continuum where everything is very different indeed.

Indeed, DMT does seem to reliably be able to induce 'mystical' encounters with other entities. I recently read the book of Ezekiel in the bible. It doesn't make a great deal of sense, he is describing a winged chariot from the sky, but it sounds like quite a few oif the experiences I've had (in parts).

Either way, Science, in all its glory (and I do believe in Science) still has a long way to go on the human mind, and experiences like these do little to clarify the picture.

Will be very interested to see your write up on the whole thing!!!

Although I am not 100% on the scientific side of things, I have a friend who has written a book on shamanis herbs, and he goes into the chemistry of them.

Moon Maiden

What about adrenochrone (sp?), produced by the adrenal gland?

No one a member in Fortean times forum yet then???

This would probably go down a treat in there.

Moon Maiden

Hi phanerothyme,
Not being a medical man, all I can tell you is what I was told at the time and it was a long time ago having had lots of sleep since then. But I am almost sure they said the pituitary gland although not one hundred per cent, please forgive me if I have made a mistake.

In this life, one hears so many unlikely stories, that eventually one can not unravel fact from fiction and there are so many charlatans to contend with, however, I do accept there is more to our existance on this planet than we shall ever understand and so I do try to have an open mind.

Hi Moon Maiden! Hi Everyone! :) :)
The short-acting tryptamines like DMT are known for producing very intense experiences, especially in conjunction with an MAO inhibitor. Many shamans use a mixture of herbs to achieve this in a brew like ayahuasca where the yage vine which contains harmaline (an MAOI) is combined with other herbs that contain short acting tryptamines like DMT & 5-Meo-DMT. The one thing enhances the action of the other. It is worth considering that plants that contain these DMT like tryptamines are found worldwide. The use of MAOIs with these substances can be dangerous however unless you stick to avoiding a long list of foods & drugs that can trigger very harmful symptoms.
In my opinion most hallucinogens/entheogens will produce intense religious/otherworldly/mystic/transcendental experiences if the right quantity is consumed. And basically anything is then possible. As to the question of what is real and what is not... well the debate has been going on for a very long time on that!
The pineal gland has long been associated with the 3rd eye! It is also a chakra.
There's tons of info on all this sort of thing at the Erowid site.

Bard :)

http://www.bardofely.com (there's a link to Erowid from PLanet Herbal on my site!)

Ya know my friend I was talking about earlier..guess who has just dropped by :D

Hi Bard, I knew you would find your feet in this one.

Moon Maiden

Hi MM! :) Well, it's a subject that is a source of never-ending debate! And is a big part of what I am trying to get on with - the books on Atlantis! There were many herbs that I believe originated there & were used as entheogens by the Atlanteans and the cultures which survived in India, Egypt & S America for example. The plants were selectively bred in Atlantis and the knowledge was handed down as were the herbs.

BB Bard :)

BTW Erowid is at http://www.erowid.org

How's about this for an out of body experience, being concious but in a sitting position on a friends chair and then suddenly finding yourself face down spreadeagled and freefalling downwards through a spiralling black vertical tunnel that appears bottomless.
And there are no openings or apertures on the revolving faces to get out through, just an infinity of blackness below, enveloping you with more intensity as you spin ever deeper into the Abyss.
No light, no stars just the spiralling dark!
Would you panic?
I know I did!
I felt that the only way I could get out of this was to reach for the sides of the shaft in which I was plummeting, and to try to gain a hold and climb out. I succeeded in thrusting my arms out and gaining a hold and I could hear my name being called, at that very instant I found my friend looking over me , calling my name with a very worried look on his face.
As for me, my sense of relief was over whelming beyond belief.
Amazed, dazed,confused, terrified and I don't use the latter lightly.
does this qualify for an out of body experience then?
And this was after a cup of tea so there wasn't any alcohol or drugs involved.

There's no such proven thing. If it were possible, there'd be proof.


Susie, why don't you take the $1M JREF challenge?

Originally posted by SusieP
There's no such proven thing. If it were possible, there'd be proof.

All things that are possible are proveable !?

I've had some pretty mad times on acid :P

Originally posted by bulldog D
How's about this for an out of body experience, being concious but in a sitting position on a friends chair and then suddenly finding yourself face down spreadeagled and freefalling downwards through a spiralling black vertical tunnel that appears bottomless.
And there are no openings or apertures on the revolving faces to get out through, just an infinity of blackness below, enveloping you with more intensity as you spin ever deeper into the Abyss.
No light, no stars just the spiralling dark!
Would you panic?
I know I did!
I felt that the only way I could get out of this was to reach for the sides of the shaft in which I was plummeting, and to try to gain a hold and climb out. I succeeded in thrusting my arms out and gaining a hold and I could hear my name being called, at that very instant I found my friend looking over me , calling my name with a very worried look on his face.
As for me, my sense of relief was over whelming beyond belief.
Amazed, dazed,confused, terrified and I don't use the latter lightly.
does this qualify for an out of body experience then?
And this was after a cup of tea so there wasn't any alcohol or drugs involved.

Perhaps your friend spiked your cup of tea?

Or maybe you're an epileptic and don't realise it

Originally posted by Phanerothyme

Bhuddist monks have inhaled this stuff and said of it - 'These are the lights of the Inner Bardo' i.e. one can go no further without being unable to return.


Those crazy Bhuddist Monks! What's Bridgitte Bardot got to do with this? :P

It's possible to self-induce a feeling like this if you can clear your mind sufficiently - the feeling is one of total infinity for want of a better phrase.

The new-agers would call it being at one with the universe or reaching your inner self.

Me? I just call it extreme relaxation and mental control - just mind over matter. I also do technicolour lucid dreaming which is pretty much the same sort of thing.

Catalepsy is something that can be the real reason behind what people would like to think of as Astral travel. it is not always a pleasant experince either.

Out of body experiences.
I know nothing at all about"astral planes" or pituitary glands, but I have experienced what is called a near death experience, I had been in labour for about 20 hours, and having a bit of a rough time, when I had a very strange sensation of floating upwards towards the ceiling and looking down on myself, I could see myself quite clearly, and all around me was a very brilliant hazy, white light, it wasn't scary or frightening,I have no idea how long it lasted, but then I came back down onto the bed. This was in 1968, and things like this was unheard of, I honestly thought I'd flipped, and at first I didn't tell anyone, but I did eventually tell my husband and a close female relative, these days I often read about these things, but truthfully I had never heard of anything like that before it happened to me.I suppose now you will all think I'm a fruitcake, but I can assure you all I'm not.

Originally posted by Jamie
All things that are possible are proveable !?


If they are reported as fact, then yes, they must be proven.


Susie, who hasn't seen a shred of evidence

Dont know if this counts as an out of body experience or not, was looking at the computer screen and saw paragraph after paraghragh of complete rubbish ,this was shortly before I saw the word 'fannyrethyme' then my head hit the keyboard in anticipation of a good long sleep. When I woke up the PC was doing an improper shutdown jobby and lets face it no one really wants checkpoint C removing without aneasthetic. (not after last time anyway)

DRAGON

Originally posted by mojoworking
Perhaps your friend spiked your cup of tea?

Or maybe you're an epileptic and don't realise it

Nope!
had an ECG(heart), EEG(epilepsy) and MRI(brain) Scan all within 3 days of the event and I'm normal. And no, he didn't spike my tea.

Found this old thread from a google search, does anyone know if there are any such groups in Sheffield that explore this kind of thing, namely out of body experiences / astral projection?

Thanks!

Dave

Send sacredearth a pm she will be able to answer any questions you have on the subject.:cool:

I had an 'experience' when I was about three years old. I can still recall it. I remember floating up to the ceiling and looking down on myself. It only happened once and because I was so young, I wasn't at all scared by the experience but didn't understand its significance either.

Thanks Bikertec, I have done so!

And Bloomdido, sounds like a classic out of body experience there, you're certainly not on your own! Not that I've had a conscious one myself yet, just recently started avidly reading about them and attempting.