Now this thread is a very open ended one.
There are a lot of martial arts instructors in Sheffield (being the steel city that it is).
Now you get the good , the bad and the just plain stupid.
I have heard a lot of positive things about many of them.
Now I cant comment too much on styles I know nothing about but here goes.

JKD= Mark Hayes , open minded martial artist good mix of striking and grappling and is well into using the escrima sticks .Good knowledge of JKD concepts.

Karate= Theres Big John Hunter from Shotokan and many more Karate clubs about (too many to mention!) , give GKR a wide berth though :hihi:

Kung Fu= There is davemantis from the outskirts and also Sifu Pete Allsop from Northern Shaolin.

Thaiboxing= Wicker Camp is the established one but there is also one of Sheffields unsung heroes of Thai/Kick and PRO Boxing who goes by the name of Andy Marlow.

Kickboxing= Apart from the obvious AFK highly successful team of instructors, there is also Paul Powers , the Marsdens (who are possibly more Karate orientated but are still very good) and then Claude from Black Dragons.

Grappling Arts= BJJ, Ju Jitsu and MMA style grappling. There is Pep from sheffield shoot , Steve, Lynn , Mark from Royce Gracie and Jon from Barra, my old pal Brian Aiken from the BA ju jitsu Dojo.

Kapap/Krav Maga = Craig Welsh who i have not yet met but have heard good things from my own students about.

All in all you have a good selection of places to go to as well as a wide pool of knowledge to be gained from.
Now if the local instructors had any intelligence they would network a bit more and speak more highly of each other instead of badmouthing each other at every opportunity.

I am slowly starting a small network of individuals , mainly in systems that have a relevance towards reality and competitive fighting.
Use this thread if you are interested. More than anything I think Sheffield needs to have its own amateur kickboxing circuit the same way it has an amateur boxing circuit.

What are your views?

Cheers Farhad ..... My instructors in Sheffield are Paul Sharpe and Eric Mather; both of whom have forgetten more karate than I know. Also at the All Saints club there is Kris, a 2nd Dan who has trained throughout the UK and had a long stint training in Japan. (something I've always dreamed of).

Big omision from your list are Adam and Kev from the Steel City Shotokan ..... they give good traditional karate with an extra twist of doing alot of pad work (unusual for Shotokan) and I've got a feeling that Kev and his son have done a fair bit of kickboxing themselves .....

I'm not quite sure I know what your trying to say with this thread or if your trying to acheive/organise something, if so I don't know what that is either.

You've listed various styles and arts and also a couple of practitioners of each one but I can't quite see what your getting at?
Are you trying to promote some kind of knowledge base between all the styles, I don't know, maybe trying to encourage the sharing of technique and skills? Or is it more from a business minded view, maybe like trying to start a circle of gyms recognised as being reputable in teaching martial arts and perhaps trying to create a Sheffield Martial Arts coalition?


Do you mean Kick Boxing instructors should network more?
You mention a small network of individuals, what will be the purpose and aim of this group? Obviously I'm not asking for justification or anything like that and there's no reason I should, just thought I'd enquire as to what you meant by this?

As for the Amateur Kickboxing circuits, I couldn't possibly pass a comment either way, I know that from my own back ground in Thai Boxing that there aren't enough gyms (in Sheffield) that produce fighters to sustain any kind of inter Sheffield circuit, I know there are Amateur competitions Nation and World wide but don't think there would be much use for something on such a small circuit, although I can only speak for my own area.

karate wise i recommend dil's wado ryu class in the scout hut on eccy road

i know they train sunday eve about 5pm but i'm not sure when else in the week

dil is a top bloke, true gent and he knows his stuff

for muay thai i'd say go for the wicker camp, well established with good club attitude

but i'd say that supreme ultimate boxing, tai chi chuan, supercedes all else, if you're prepared to put in ten or twenty years training :hihi: - david barrow's wu style class, (small circle as opposed to the big circle yang style - less wafty & more efficient than other tai chi styles) at kingfield hall, brincliffe crescent, off psalter lane, mon tues thurs 7pm, has been going for over 25 years - inspirational

:thumbsup:

I've heard a few people say that tai chi is a great practical martial art given time to master it (using terms such as ultimate, as you do yourself) - just wondered what it is about it that's good - would you say someone studying this for 20 years would be better than someone training thai boxing for 20 years?

Is it no use before you've been studying it for that long? I'd quite like to try it, it looks very interesting but I have to admit it strikes me as more of an art form than a practical fighting system? (Not that I'd be averse to studying it for this reason, I just wondered where the claims of practical fighting use came from) And have you studied any more reality/competition-geared systems to compare it to?

Cheers,

Chris

To be honest there aren't many instructors on here who bad mouth other instructors.
I even recommend that my students give several martial arts a go before settling down with the one they like, and i'm more than happy for them to cross train with other styles, or other clubs.

Personally I want to get some training in at BJJ, but it's finding time.

Well, you could be there right now

So could I for that matter, but I have to read books and stuff. Exams, pff

I have to eat some dinner, I only just got home, telewest are supposed to be coming to fix the tvdrive and I have a load of diy to do if I could muster some motivation.

Life interferes with training all the time.

i'll try and find some info out for ya - there's loads out there

basically yes it's a fighting art - i've done a fair bit of karate and muay thai to compare it with - for the first years in a lot of classes it doesn't appear to be much about fighting - some people will never decode the moves but if you persevere and you've got a good teacher who doesn't just do it for health then all will gradually become clear (as it is starting to do so for me after ten years of practise)

for starters, here's a quote from http://www.cultivatechi.com/


The Supreme Ultimate refers to the Tao (Dao), the framework within which Yin and Yang manifest in nature. Tao is the Path or the Way. Yin and Yang represent opposite aspects of the universe. One cannot exist without the other, one contains the seeds of the other, and each is opposite in relation to the other. Examples of Yin and Yang are day and night, light and dark, empty and full.

T'ai Chi therefore indicates that the art contains within itself (in the movements, shapes and patterns of breathing) all that is necessary for these dynamic forces to interact and be reconciled.

The character Ch'uan refers to a school or method of boxing or combat. T'ai Chi Ch'uan, as it was originally conceived, is a sophisticated method of self-defense based on the reconciliation of dynamically interacting forces. The T'ai Chi Chuan practitioner seeks to neutralize the opponent's use of force before applying a countering force. In this give and take, this interplay of energies, T'ai Chi finds its highest expression as a form of self-defense.


Primarily, Tai Chi is an exercise for health. Practiced slowly, it increases strength, balance and coordination. Practiced with total body relaxation and no force, it promotes better circulation and calms the mind.

Secondarily, the circular movements and postures of Tai Chi Chuan, if practiced correctly for several years, can be used for self-defense. Roughly translated, Tai Chi means "Supreme Ultimate Boxing." The form is based on the ideas from Taoism, a philosophy or world view derived form the I Ching (Book of Changes) and from the writings of Lao Tzu. The I Ching, which embodies the idea of yin and yang and their opposition, alternation and interaction, originated and was developed in the 2nd and 3rd centuries, B.C.E.


Lao Tzu wrote the Tao Te Ching sometime during the 5th century, B.C.E. A common image in this book is water, which is soft and yielding but which can overcome the hardest of substances. So too is Tai Chi Chuan, seemingly soft and yielding, but holding the capacity for great power.

here's another bit from
http://www.caringhandstaichi.com/supreme_ultimate_boxing.htm

Supreme Ultimate Boxing: Considering T'ai Chi Chuan In Its Original Martial Context

Over the years, I have noticed that, since T'ai Chi and other "internal arts" have been promoted in the U.S. as a type of pseudo-mystical "health exercise," many people perceive them in just that way. In the past, this seemed attributable to a general lack of genuine knowledge about arts such as T'ai Chi (or styles of kung fu in general). However, what continues to amaze me is that today, although we have every means at our disposal for the instant collection and dissemination of information of all kinds about these once more esoteric arts, so many people still cling to the myths they are so comfortable with: "T'ai Chi's all about energy, Man. It's not about fighting or killing. If you see that in those pretty moves that are harmonizing me with the universe, you're on one bad trip, Dude." The truth is, unless you're getting off the bus at a Grateful Dead concert, this point of view is patently false! It's not that T'ai Chi isn't about energy or can't be a Dharma-vehicle--sure it can, it's just that it wasn't originally designed for that purpose.

Keeping It Real

T'ai Chi Chuan. The phrase is variously translated, but the characters that form the last part of it mean “fist,” “style of boxing” or “martial art.” The various postures that form the basis of this deadly art include the very serene and peaceful sounding, “Ward-Off,” “Pull Down,” “[Cavity] Press,” “Push,” “Punch,” “Fist Under Elbow,” “Shoulder Strike” and well, you get the idea. At least some of you do anyway. Many still prefer to divorce T'ai Chi Chuan from its martial underpinnings preferring to see it as purely an “exercise in energetics,” “Chinese Yoga,” or “something to do with peace, love and chi.” Let’s look at these statements closely.

Proposition One: If T'ai Chi’s primary purpose was not overcoming the opponent in a self-defense situation, why give it a name like “Supreme Ultimate Boxing”?

Well perhaps, one hears the legions of “T'ai Chi Spiritualists” [TCS] replying, the “opponent” being spoken of is, in this context, non-enlightenment or lack of spiritual insight. Therefore, one uses this “boxing” as you call it to “beat up” those things. Fair enough. I guess that makes sense. I suppose I’m not spiritually evolved enough to understand. But that certainly gives the lie to the old martial adage that kung fu “begins with the conquering of the opponent and ends with the conquering of the self.”

Proposition Two: Why call punches, kicks, warding off and striking motions by their practical names?

For example, why isn’t “Press” called “Unfolding the Thousand-Petalled Lotus Flower of Heavenly Enlightenment” or “Push” short for “Pushing Open the Doors of Immortality?” Hey, and while we’re at it, why do they look like punches, kicks and strikes? I’m sure the TCS cult would be ready with a host of obscure quotes from the classics explaining how “a punch is not a punch,” etc. but, the common-sense answer to this question is probably because the originators of T'ai Chi Chuan saw it as a practical, highly scientific means of self defense. In point of fact, this WAS the case--hence its name, the scientific body positioning inherent in the postures and the myriad applications possible in any of the transitions.

Proposition Three: Those who try to deny T'ai Chi’s martial origins or fail to acknowledge them are not only foolish and ahistorical, but deny themselves a complete understanding of the art.

There are plenty of people who dogmatically maintain that T'ai Chi has nothing to do with fighting or that understanding its martial applications is irrelevant to success with it. They’re wrong. There are also plenty of teachers who are good fighters and who know T'ai Chi, but lack for competent instruction in applications leading to a host of very basic, or downright incorrect, movements getting practiced and transmitted down to their students in an extremely large and possibly harmful game of “martial telephone.” This is also wrong. More damage has been done to T'ai Chi Chuan by people trying to deny its martial applicability and the entire sub-set of precise, skilled movements that comes along with it (or failure to grasp that skill-set correctly) than probably anything else written or said.

Proposition Four: Know what it is you are practicing. It’s all about energy, but not in the way you think!

Of course, T'ai Chi is about energy. It’s about gathering energy in a strong vital, well-conditioned, flexible body…and then discharging that energy into someone else’s body in the form of a strike with the intent to kill or injure them! Sorry, TCS people, but that’s it! Of course, the by-products of the training, strength, flexibility, a calm-centered mind, etc. are what make T'ai Chi multifaceted and a truly wonderful “life-art.” Far be it from me to ever deny these incredible benefits. And yes, I’m aware that the majority of people don’t have to physically fight anymore to survive—making the ancillary profits even more important. But still, ask yourself: would anyone make the claim that karate or jujitsu was exclusively a form of energetics, alchemy or spiritual enlightenment? Nonsense!

T'ai Chi Chuan is an all-purpose tool. One of those purposes, the original one, was to kill someone. Let me be clear: I’m not saying T'ai Chi cannot be used for more than one thing, but one must bear in mind what it meant to those who created it. This meaning was a martial one, not a spiritual one (that came later--once you were alive to concentrate on spiritual development). It equally behooves the TCS-ers to understand that often things just don’t mean what you want them to mean just because you feel that way. T.S. Eliot’s The Wasteland for instance, could never justifiably be construed as a comic fairytale or Machiavelli’s The Prince a comment on women’s rights just because that happens to be your feeling. Similarly, because you may choose to deny T'ai Chi’s martial underpinnings doesn’t make it so. There is a certain range where interpretation is possible. Outside of that range, you must either be startlingly creative or a bit of a fool--and most people I’ve met aren’t particularly creative.

A Final Parable

A loaded .45 makes, among other things, a great paperweight. It's heavy enough to be used to hold open a door or hammer in a nail. Perhaps, if you contemplated it long enough, you could even reach enlightenment. But, suppose after you had been attacked in your home (if you're lucky enough to survive) the police asked you why you didn't just shoot the guy with the .45 lying on your desk? "Oh, you mean my paperweight? My doorstop? My hammer? My spiritual treasure? I couldn't possibly use that to kill anyone. Obviously, you don't know a good paperweight when you see it!"

This, to me, is exactly how people who deny the fundamental martial aspect of any style of kung fu always sound. It's pitiful really. Over 25 years ago, when I first started training, I would have shrugged it off with a simple, "Hey, they don't know any better." Today, however, there's no excuse.

Keep thinking that T'ai Chi Chuan (Supreme Ultimate Boxing) is just that: a powerful martial arts system. It is.

aaaaaaaand some more, this time from http://www.wustylehk.com/en/?Learning_Wu_Style


How can the slow motion we often see senior people practising in parks be considered a martial art?
These motions are known as "The Form" or "The Chuan". The practice of this series of motions may last for ten minutes to half an hour. The Form contains healthful, martial and meditative aspects; but it is still only part of the complete training of the art of Tai Chi Chuan.

The form has aspects of health, martial arts and meditation. However it is still only part of complete training in the art. The martial aspect of The Form is not readily apparent to the uninitiated. A simple answer could be "You must to be able to do it slow before you can expect to do it fast", but there is much more to it then that. Besides the obvious martial benefits of balance, co-ordination, and looseness The Form also cultivates qualities like a relaxed focused mind and healthy resilient body. It trains the core motion and reactions of the practitioner, increasing the person's martial potential. The Form also contains, in its movements, a myriad of martial applications and the elements of power generation. These are hidden from an untrained observer in much the same way that fine poetry will not be revealed to someone who has not learned the language yet.

The Form is the basis of Tai Chi Chu'an but "Push Hands" is considered the "gateway into martial arts". There are also other martial exercises beyond Push Hands. The confusion about Tai chi Chu'an being a martial art has probably arisen in part because many Tai Chi Chu'an schools only practice The Form and exercises focused on health and meditation. This may be because the founder of the school has not learned the martial practices or that the students do not have the desire or have progressed far enough to learn them.

I am slowly starting a small network of individuals , mainly in systems that have a relevance towards reality and competitive fighting.
Use this thread if you are interested. More than anything I think Sheffield needs to have its own amateur kickboxing circuit the same way it has an amateur boxing circuit.

What are your views?

hiya chefkicker

just a small respectful point, but i wonder if with this statement you are grouping systems with a relevance towards reality and competitive fighting together?

in my experience and understanding, systems that are geared towards competition often have their more useful "reality" techniques watered down or removed - judo is a good example of this

what are your views?

:D :thumbsup:

It depends on what you mean by fighting.
Judo has so many rules that it barely resembles a fight.
UFC or 'Cage Fighting' on the other hand, looks much more like fighting, with minimal rules just stopping dirty things like biting and gouging.

Reality means things that work better with less rules. The closest you'll get to that is mixed martial arts - although obviously wearing gloves etc. means this still isn't completely real. Some arts claim to be more realistic because they include biting and gouging and thumbs in eyes - but their practitioners never get the chance to test these things in full resistance scenarios so although they might know how to do them, there's a big step between doing something to a willing, relaxed and immobile partner and to one who's elbowing you in the face at the time. You get good at something by practising it, to get good at fighting you have to practise fighting, in my opinion.

All or at least most martial arts come from a practical perspective at some point though, just made safer and more artistic over the course of time... I sometimes wonder if studying something like tai chi chuan from the mindset of a fighter might allow the techniques to be brought back to their original intent and be useful for incorporation into competitive / reality type styles (including both of these terms, competition with an intent to approach realism - not all competition is realistic).

I've seen some very interesting studies into tai chi's health benefits too, I'd really like to take it up when (if) I have time.

good points, cyclone & crayfish, thanks

my intention with tai chi has always been to get into the application/combat side of it, tho i do appreciate the health benefits

some teachers still do teach the combat side of it - i'm starting to get into that now, after building a solid foundation with the long form

my teacher doesn't bring the interactive elements in until the foundations have started to take shape

:thumbsup:

Cheers Farhad ..... My instructors in Sheffield are Paul Sharpe and Eric Mather; both of whom have forgetten more karate than I know. Also at the All Saints club there is Kris, a 2nd Dan who has trained throughout the UK and had a long stint training in Japan. (something I've always dreamed of).

Big omision from your list are Adam and Kev from the Steel City Shotokan ..... they give good traditional karate with an extra twist of doing alot of pad work (unusual for Shotokan) and I've got a feeling that Kev and his son have done a fair bit of kickboxing themselves .....

Hi John
I do apologise for the omissions. Interesting! I would very much like to meet these guys (Adam and Kev). Adam has signed my guestbook and he posts on here doesnt it?
One of my students teaches D&T at All Saints School.

I'm not quite sure I know what your trying to say with this thread or if your trying to acheive/organise something, if so I don't know what that is either.



You've listed various styles and arts and also a couple of practitioners of each one but I can't quite see what your getting at?
Are you trying to promote some kind of knowledge base between all the styles, I don't know, maybe trying to encourage the sharing of technique and skills? Or is it more from a business minded view, maybe like trying to start a circle of gyms recognised as being reputable in teaching martial arts and perhaps trying to create a Sheffield Martial Arts coalition?


Do you mean Kick Boxing instructors should network more?
You mention a small network of individuals, what will be the purpose and aim of this group? Obviously I'm not asking for justification or anything like that and there's no reason I should, just thought I'd enquire as to what you meant by this?

As for the Amateur Kickboxing circuits, I couldn't possibly pass a comment either way, I know that from my own back ground in Thai Boxing that there aren't enough gyms (in Sheffield) that produce fighters to sustain any kind of inter Sheffield circuit, I know there are Amateur competitions Nation and World wide but don't think there would be much use for something on such a small circuit, although I can only speak for my own area.

Hi Wesley
The reason for this thread is mutiple fold. You are right for most of them.
1.Cross Training and sharing of knowledge. MMA & reality based training is all the rage these days and you will find many students for training in a few different arts .
Examples (false names used , but they are based on real people to an extent).

Spod trains once a week at Wicker and twice at AFK, he also does a weekly session of Krav Maga.
Jin trains BJJ at the 393 club 2 times a week and trains with AFK 2 times a week too.
Buchu trains at the Wicker once a week with Christian privately, does a normal class at the wicker occasionally and trains with Sheffield Shoot Fighters the rest of the time.
Star trains at AFK 3 times a week and she also does Boxing on the side.
Cad trains in BJJ 3 times a week and does one lesson at AFK for stand up.
Blu does boxing 4 times a week and a session at the Wicker.
Pika teaches and trains in WTF Taekwondo 4 times a week and trains at AFK once a week.

2.The circle of reputable gyms is definitely a good idea. Slowly helps the promotion of good martial arts and leads to a slow demise of the McDojo (well its a nice dream).

3. The kickboxing instructors networking. Now whenever I or one of my guys fought in Birmingham, I noticed one thing. They all support each other. Yes there is sporting rivalry but they leave the rivalry in the ring where it belongs.
One gym does an interclub the others come in flocks. One gym promotes a show the other gyms will bring a few fighters with them.
The now defunct B.K.O (British Kickboxing Organisation) was the same. There were mainly gyms from around the Derbyshire region along with Nottingham Kyukushin (A full contact knockdown karate group who dabble in mainly K-1 style kickboxing) , AFK, Reflex (suffolk) and a few clubs from Wales.

So yes this is how the amateur kickboxing circuit will grow and yes I do intend to work my hardest to be a pioneer of this in Sheffield. Loads of clubs claim to teach Kickboxing, lets see if any of them will actually put any fighters forward.
If they cant even provide anyone at Amateur level to a novice standard then either the club is no good OR the trainer is a lying scumbag who doesnt really (or should that be is incapable of) teaching Kickboxing. :rant:

Thank you for your post Stussonicos, it was the most relevant (to my needs anyway) on this thread.

Am I really a Cad, or was that the other Chris? :) I always thought of myself as more of a knave.

Sorry I didn't make Friday by the way - exam fever's settled in now so I'm not sure how the next few weeks will be for training.

Good luck with this thing!

Ciao,

Chris

hiya chefkicker

just a small respectful point, but i wonder if with this statement you are grouping systems with a relevance towards reality and competitive fighting together?

in my experience and understanding, systems that are geared towards competition often have their more useful "reality" techniques watered down or removed - judo is a good example of this

what are your views?

:D :thumbsup:

check out the forum on www.geoffthompson.com for a good run down of what VERY experienced street fighting martial artists find more relevant for reality situations. judo is highly regarded as a supplementary skill, in fact apart from genuine RBSD training, it is the competitive systems that are given more credence.

I have to agree actually, while not comprehensive, what judo does it does very well. Stand up grappling's something I need to work on, never been a strong point.

I wasn't dissing judo. They are very good at what they do.
You don't see any pure judo players in the UFC though and I think that's because judo is just a subset of a minimum rules fight.

Hi John
I do apologise for the omissions. Interesting! I would very much like to meet these guys (Adam and Kev). Adam has signed my guestbook and he posts on here doesnt it?
One of my students teaches D&T at All Saints School.

Both good blokes .....

Yeh .... I know of your student at All Saints ..... Paul has told me about him....

I've heard a few people say that tai chi is a great practical martial art given time to master it (using terms such as ultimate, as you do yourself) - just wondered what it is about it that's good - would you say someone studying this for 20 years would be better than someone training thai boxing for 20 years?

Is it no use before you've been studying it for that long? I'd quite like to try it, it looks very interesting but I have to admit it strikes me as more of an art form than a practical fighting system? (Not that I'd be averse to studying it for this reason, I just wondered where the claims of practical fighting use came from) And have you studied any more reality/competition-geared systems to compare it to?

Cheers,

Chris

Hi Crayfish i have studied other systems i now study tai chi only (listed teacher on www.taichichuan.co.uk).

I think in a fight with san shou rules a tai chi FIGHTER repeat FIGHTER would win against a thai boxer. In a fight with thai boxing rules the thai boxer would win.

It doesn't have to take 20 years it can take someone 6 months(very hard graft) to get up to speed to use it for basic self defence. (I mean not pretty but it works kind of stuff)

Mastering it takes very much longer. I'm still a long way off.

Neil Tomlinson

Chef

Thanks for taking time to expand your first post.
I agree, and think most would, that MMA has certainly grown in popularity over the last 5 years and I think it would be foolish to totally dismiss the benefits of 'cross training' as you put it, especially for people with a general interest in all Martial Arts or someone wanting to incorporate lots of different styles/techiniques to achieve their goals in fitness or fighting skills.
For these types of individulas there really is no better way to train, being able to dip into differing disciplins to pick out aspects they like or need.

Although I think there may be another view point of individuals, the pureists lets say (and yes I guess for the most part I am one of them), that would like to see their Martial Art/Gym/Fighters/Students stay traditional, pure or free from influence of other forms.
I can see why so many people like to train in several styles, although wonder where someone who onlys trains in the one art and is un-willing to participate in others (and by this I do not mean bad mouth, make comparisons between arts or be-little styles), or even a gym that doesn't encourage it's students to train else where would fit into this 'circle of knowledge sharing'.

Again please don't take this as me going against the grain, I'm certanly not trying to do that at all, I guess it just sometimes seems that the purist gyms (and again not just thinking of Wicker) do get a little over looked and perhaps thought of as not contributing to the over all quality of Martial Arts in their area.

Going back to your suggestion of a Sheffield Amateur Kick Boxing circuit, not sure I can say much about this, obviously I don't think anything like that can be a bad thing for your sport. I think what would be good would be a Martial Arts Awareness type event, maybe lottery or council funded (ha ha ha) showcasing styles and arts available in Sheffield, allowing some it's practioners to hold displays, promote their clubs, raise awareness of their clubs achievements and maybe, just maybe have some inter club/style sparring??

Going off at a slight tangent here for a minute, as an individual, would you rather (not directed personally at you Farhad, but anyone reading in general, but you included) you had a basic understanding in several Martial Arts/styles or were overly competent in one and were working towards 'mastering' your chosen style?

West

It depends on what you want to achieve really.
A mastery of one style is going to make you a less effective fighter than being a 2/3rds master in several.
It's a case of diminishing returns I think. Spending 10 hrs training something you're already good at, will add less to your overall game than spending 10 hrs training in an area you know yourself to be deficient in.

Hi Westley
Yes I want a good amateur kickboxing circuit to flourish in sheffield. If you like I can invite you to the first show to have a look and maybe do some judging or something?
The purist gyms dont have to share in the circles of knowledge etc, just that we should be part of an unofficial "guild" if you like so we all recommend and endorse each other as it were. That way there harbours no bitterness between instructors.
For example: I would be happy to send someone who has small kids who want to do kickboxing towards Marsdens in Hillsborough and for people who want to train at Malin Bridge I would recommend Paul Powers . Or even recommend people to go to say, Terry Johnsons Woodhouse based Karate Dojo for example
That make sense so far?

Crayfish ,
Hmm yeah it is possible that "cad" could be you :) You train BJJ something like 3 times a week (dont you?) and turn up to AFK whenever we want to go to that Kurdish place. Then again it could be any of the other 3/4 guys who are from BJJ couldnt it? That would be telling :P
Im actually starting to like BJJ to be honest.
AFK went through an era when a lot of Taekwondo stylists (mainly TAGB) would train with us on the side and would fight for both clubs in both disciplines and an era before that when this Kung Fu club would visit us on Friday night for a good old fashioned "fight club".

It depends on what you want to achieve really.
A mastery of one style is going to make you a less effective fighter than being a 2/3rds master in several.
It's a case of diminishing returns I think. Spending 10 hrs training something you're already good at, will add less to your overall game than spending 10 hrs training in an area you know yourself to be deficient in.

i'd pretty much agree with that, especially the first line. mastering one style may provide sufficient return if competing in that style, and it should also teach a lot of the necessary physical skills required for self-defence, but it will leave most likely leave you deficient in some areas, and will most likely be inadequate if you were to enter a MMA contest.

I wasn't dissing judo. They are very good at what they do.
You don't see any pure judo players in the UFC though and I think that's because judo is just a subset of a minimum rules fight.

it didn't come across like anyone was dissing judo, and unless you're really top notch it might not be anyone's first choice if you could do only one style for self-defence or mma, but its stand-up grappling is comparable with the better stand-up grappling styles and it requires a great deal of fitness and physical toughness, so it could be a valuable (if not necessary) component of a self-defence/mma program.

Hi Westley
Crayfish ,
Hmm yeah it is possible that "cad" could be you :) You train BJJ something like 3 times a week (dont you?) and turn up to AFK whenever we want to go to that Kurdish place. Then again it could be any of the other 3/4 guys who are from BJJ couldnt it? That would be telling :P
Im actually starting to like BJJ to be honest.


Mm, Kurdish :)

Nah, actually. Wish I had time, only making it once / not at all at the moment. In good times I make it that much though.

Going to get fat over these exams with no training, I may actually be a blimp when you see me next

I'm not quite sure where this thread is going, but I thought I'd throw in my bit just to muddy the waters further.

I've always taken the "purist" view on my training, and limited my training solely to Shotokan. There's obviously limitations to the system and I'd love to dabble in a few different styles - for fun and interest's sake, if nothing else.

I totally support the idea of fostering closer working links between the different martial arts clubs in Sheffield - I'm sure we all have ideas to share and we'd all benefit from "cross-pollination".

The main problem, as Cyclone says, is finding time for it all.

I know there was a post a few months ago regarding a mixed martial art seminar. Did anything come of this idea?

I would just like to let you all know my forum is up and running now and it has a section for serous conversations on martial arts in south Yorkshire. You can find it at www.mfcba.co.uk

Now that we have covered so much ground, has anyone got any Horror Stories of martial arts instructors to avoid? You do not have to give names just the story.
LOL

Maybe we need a thread entitled "Abusive Instructors" ?

There is a tai chi man (PY) up Newcastle not good for martial arts even if he can do the stuff.
He Talks about cake to much and He thinks he can move people with his chi but will not prove it other than on his own students?????????

All sounds quite bad, but the cake pretty much makes up for it

Mmm, cake

Think I might have seen a demonstration by that guy or someone similar, looked very dubious (e.g. punch a pad then 2 seconds later the padman leaps in the air)

I know he got run out of America at a demonstration lol so that says something.

Hey guys have a laugh at this post:

21-05-2006, 01:18 AM #335
cavegal
Registered User


Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 20
Status: Offline


"Hey chefkicker is there any one in particular that you are talking about in hillsborourgh ? my fiancee used to train with Paul and as far as i am aware Paul used to be a karate guy not kickboxing , i thaught these were the type of instructors you hated so much where has all the respect gone you sometimes bang on about I have read alot of your comments on diffrent threads and every time some one mentions kickboxing then you claim to be the only qualified person in sheffield, what are your qualifications, and from who, I would be intrested to know how legitamate you actually are after all any one that names a kickboxing style after himself must be pretty much up his own"

Who, where from and what is this "cavegal" ?
Is he /she/it affiliated to one of these instructors to avoid like the plague?
Is cavegal one of those idiots who post racially offensive and generally derogatory comments on my guestbook?

Who wants to help unravel the mystery?

Now the interesting things are as follows.
1. Cavegal was posting here at 1:18am on a saturday night :hihi:
Ok nothing wrong with that I guess. Maybe he/she/it felt irrate at the time.

2. Cavegal mentioned having a "fiancee" is she female or a man pretending to be a woman online? Or maybe her sexuality is none of my business.

3. I was nothing but complimentary of Paul Powers with my comment :

Kickboxing= Apart from the obvious AFK highly successful team of instructors, there is also Paul Powers , the Marsdens (who are possibly more Karate orientated but are still very good) and then Claude from Black Dragons.

Cavegal accuses :

1. Me of hating Karate Instructors
2.Paul Powers of not being a kickboxing instructor
3. Me claiming that Im the only kickboxing instructor in sheffield (???)

:confused:

Having ventured into the world of promoting it is in my interest if there are good kickboxing clubs in sheffield!!!

Good kickboxing clubs= good fighters willing to fight under full contact or kickboxing rules = exciting fights = A good kickboxing scene locally.

If AFK was the only decent kickboxing club we wouldnt have a scene and my fighters will continue to have to travel to Birmingham and other places like we currently do. Or worse still have to make do with Light Continuous tournaments locally.

Also every post that Cavegal has written seems incredibly bitter about something. More about kickboxing than anything else.

Hi everyone me again just to put chekiker straight,

1 I'm not acussing you of hating karate instructors- but you have said that karate instructors that teach kickboxing are , liars , there cheating students, scumbags,amongst other things( all of thiese can be seen on your previous threads)

2 I merely mentioned that Paul was a Karate man

3 Well you do think that you are the only kickboxing instructor in Sheffield, on one hand you hate karate guys jumping on the kickboxing band wagon, then your saying you'd recomend people to train with clubs that have more of a karate base (or karate orientated).:loopy:

Theres no mystery to who i am or what style i do i have been training in karate for a number of years.

I only want to understand what you think a good or legitamate kickboxing instructor / coach is.
What do his / her credentials have to be.;)

Hi everyone me again just to put chekiker straight,

Or to make yourself look like an even bigger idiot than you are.

1 I'm not acussing you of hating karate instructors- but you have said that karate instructors that teach kickboxing are , liars , there cheating students, scumbags,amongst other things( all of thiese can be seen on your previous threads)

Yes I stand by that. Anyone claiming to teach kickboxing who really teaches point fighting and musical forms (then passes it off as kickboxing) is a liar a cheat and a scumbag. I will say all of the above to their faces too and yours if needs be.


2 I merely mentioned that Paul was a Karate man

Yes at the same time trying to stir trouble up between me and Paul. You conveniently havent mentioned who you are, where you train or YOUR actual kickboxing credentials (which are most likely non existent or you would agree with me on the scumbags bit)


3 Well you do think that you are the only kickboxing instructor in Sheffield,

Hmmm I keep forgetting how doing Katas increases the power of the mind :P
Your a mind reader all of a sudden :P


on one hand you hate karate guys jumping on the kickboxing band wagon,

Of course I do , most of them are bogus. Most of my coloured belts would KO most of those instructors and paper black belts clean out.
By the way Im talking about my TEENAGE coloured belts never mind fully grown adults :P
I would gladly put Zeashan Ali (Age 15, Green Belt , 6'2" 80KG) Against one of your black belts at 80KG in a full contact bout. Im actually struggling to match Zeashan after the last 3 KO's he has won by :cool:
How about Haafiz Raheal Ali (age 17, Orange Belt , 5'10" 75kg) against one of your other Black belts/Instructors. :)

I am confident that they will either KO clean or completely batter/humiliate most Black belts in a full contact bout.
The gauntlet has been laid down unless you are from one of those mickey mouse clubs that dont fight outside your own association.

then your saying you'd recomend people to train with clubs that have more of a karate base (or karate orientated).:loopy:

Why not? Simon and Darren Marsden support my shows and are nice guys so who cares about their base :thumbsup:

Theres no mystery to who i am or what style i do i have been training in karate for a number of years.

I only want to understand what you think a good or legitamate kickboxing instructor / coach is.
What do his / her credentials have to be.;)

1. Black Belt or above in Kickboxing. Failing that a black belt in another martial art is acceptable (better than nothing I guess ;) )

2. Have actual kickboxing experience. You cant relate it as well if you havent actually been there. I dont care how good a coach you are (supposedly), if you dont know what a full contact fighter goes through in training and in preparation for a bout as well as the actual bout itself then I honestly do NOT rate you! Also you are unlikely to have a good understanding of the sport and be stuck in your own ideas.
I tried to explain to a karate guy (who converted to kickboxing) the importance of good management and correct matchmaking and he said words to the effect of "let him get banged out it will do him good" .
I have tried to explain the 28 day TKO medical suspension rule to a team full of Taekwondo people who have jumped on the kickboxing bandwagon.
They all looked at me bewildered with their teammate having been stopped on a KO yet the coach still insisted I reverse the decision and let the KO'd fighter carry on . :hihi:

3. A GOOD instructor will have had experience behidn the scenes . Matchmaking, Judging , Refereeing. A good coach should be involved not just in the gym but for the better of the sport as a whole.

Im sure a karate instructor is ok for showing absolute beginners how to stand and throw a basic jab and cross and a few flashy kicks but real kickboxing has more to it than that.

There is no point me trying to explain it all to you as you seem content to hide behind a fake user name and rubbish others while trying to kill off the sport of kickboxing from the inside dont you.

Having said that you seem to be totally brainwashed anyway so all the wisdom in the world wont help you.

hey cave girl, dont mean to be rude but over a a few threads u seem to be insulting a instuctor who has trained me over the last few years and is very competent at his training. If you then question how how good his teaching abilities are please contact me and i shall tell my achievements whereby farad has helped.

I've been reading some god comments about cross training ,which on a whole seems to be a good thing, but in todays society people want something and they want it now , i have the greatest respect for students that study a certain style and try to master it which (im sure some traditionalists will agree ) can take years to acomplish, and then there's students that study for a year and then move on to something else,and its these students that miss out on what the style has to offer.
An example is that a friend of mine trains Lau Gar kung fu with the Sheffield Academy, now she has been training for 6 years and got a brown belt or i think it may be a black belt now ? any way its only now that the instructors have started to show her how to fight sticking hands( chi sau) and Chi Na(chinese grappling, locks and pressure point fighting), when i asked her why it took so long before she learnt it her reply was that this is the real kung fu, and the first six years of training she was building the foundations, both mentaly and physicaly.
She understands how dangerous this type of fighting is and explains that it feels that she has just completed her apprentiship, in to kung fu and now she is starting to learn !
But what about all the students that started then left and are still wondering aimlessly from style to style looking for that little bit more.
any way enjoy your training !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Iceman
I do appreciate what you are saying , but you mention a friend in quite a few of your posts.
Arent you one of the instructors from Lau Gar yourself? Come on I wasnt born yesterday. I can tell by your previous posts and the way you endorse Lau Gar in almost every post you make.

As for Chi Sau , cant you do Chi Sau without waiting 6 years like in Wing Chun?

Perhaps im exagerating the i think they proberbly do learn chi sau a little sooner than 6 years, but as for the pressure point thing and chinese grappling then you would have to wait to black belt, p.s lau gar is the only kung fu style in sheffield that ive heard of, appart from davemantis and the moifa school, ( i used to train in lau gar many years ago but like the students i mentioned before i couldnt wait so left after reaching my purple belt, something i regret to this day , i still see the instructor quite a bit thats why i keep endorsing it). so here goes www.prokungfu.com

I get it hes a mate of yours assuming your being truthful. What about Hoan Lung Shaolin Long Fist with Pete Allsop?
Wing Chun with that guy in the chinese community centre?
Chi Gung with James lee Angel ?

They are all Kung Fu styles.

Admittedly Kung Fu has never appealed to me despite the colorful movies.

Iceman
I can’t understand why it takes them so long to do things like Chi Sau (sticking Hands) Chin Na (Locking) San Da (Chinese Kickboxing) it should be shown from day one????????

The way we do it is the San Da is a separate class as not everyone wants to do it but Sticking hands and chin na is part of all the classes just like basics and Stances are, If you don’t do it how can you do Kung Fu its all part and parcel????

Pressure points I don’t think it should be shown till you know you can trust the student; they will pick up little bits as they go along, but nothing to serous that will harm others.

Ps don’t get me wrong I have the utmost respect for Lau Gar I just cant understand why they are holding thing back unless they don’t have it to give????

So you're saying that training a style where you have to wait 6 years before you learn anything is better than learning things for 6 years? A kickboxer of 6 years experience would absolutely demolish someone like that, and still will in another 5 years - some very good competitive fighters have only been training for around that long e.g. some of the guys at the wicker thai camp.

I've been training for about 6 years now myself, and I don't have time to do it justice and get myself to that level as I do a lot of other things - but I would have said I've learnt far more than a 'mental and physical foundation!'

I'm always puzzled about the pressure points stuff.

If it were so effective and dangerous (and i'm not saying that they don't have any effect), then why don't we see pressure point use in MMA? If it were that good, surely one fighter at least would take the time to learn it, even if it did take 6 years, and then they'd use those skills to win lots of competitions.

Ninja death chop Vs. Good old fashioned Jab-Cross-Hook.

I know what I'd choose :)

Presure points were used in UFC 2, Remco Pardoel VS Orlando Weit. Remco started poking Orlando's arm..........then realised the guys head was next to his own elbow so rained down elbows for a KO!

In 65 main events I've never seen them used again!!

When I have messed about on the ground I have used Chin Na with pressure points in it, it works fine but I think I will always hit first.

I have seen A lad from china doing chi sau with a English lad and the lad got a little to heavy and stupid so the Chinese Lad turned him round hit him on the back in a couple of places and that stopped him, I didn’t think much of it till I seen my sifu get up go over to the English lad and use acupressure on him and called the Chinese lad stupid for what he did.
We tried to find out what he did but my sifu just told us he didn’t understand us. His way of saying im not telling you lol

Iceman
I can’t understand why it takes them so long to do things like Chi Sau (sticking Hands) Chin Na (Locking) San Da (Chinese Kickboxing) it should be shown from day one????????

The way we do it is the San Da is a separate class as not everyone wants to do it but Sticking hands and chin na is part of all the classes just like basics and Stances are, If you don’t do it how can you do Kung Fu its all part and parcel????

Pressure points I don’t think it should be shown till you know you can trust the student; they will pick up little bits as they go along, but nothing to serous that will harm others.

Ps don’t get me wrong I have the utmost respect for Lau Gar I just cant understand why they are holding thing back unless they don’t have it to give????

Well said Davemantis.
A good post from the man who knows his stuff about Chinese martial arts.
I think that San Da and Chin na should be taught straight away.
Chances are as Davemantis said " I have the utmost respect for Lau Gar I just cant understand why they are holding thing back unless they don’t have it to give????"
Now funnily enough a lot of Lau Gar based clubs advertise "chinese kickboxing" and really offer semi contact tiggy on the mats. Now if a Lau Gar club want to offer me some REAL kickboxers for my next full contact show then I will be willing to acknowledge them as a kickboxing club (hint hint).

Crayfish is also spot on when he says that a kickboxer of 6 years experience will destroy most martial artists who have trained 6 years in katas and forms.
Well he is nine times out of ten. For the remaining one out of ten,... Watch out I guess!

Dave
well as i said before i proberbly exagerated a little when i said 6 years .
when i trained in Lau Gar in the early to mid ninties then the only people doing sticking hands were the black sashes, the rest of us had to make do with semi contact, but i now know that chi sau is taught at an earlyer stage however as for the chi na and pressure point stuff then as i under stand it it is only black sashes and above that learn these secrets but the techniques are in the forms but unless you know the application then you have no chance of understanding it.
My understanding is Lau Gar Kung fu knowledge( now i mean chi gung, chi na , pressure points) isn't given to students , but students earn the right to
learn it.
When ive talked to my old instructor he has explained that from a very early stage in Lau Gar (2nd sash) the form we learnt was a foundation for chi gung , but it was wasted on 99% of the class. as i mentioned before most of us wanted black belts or whatever and couldnt understand why breathing slow and abdominal breathing had to do with the bruce lee image.

The 6 years it takes to get to black sash is spent building the foundations.

Lets look at it another way if i trained twice a week for 1 hour, in 1 year that would be :

104 hours of training( thats if i dont miss any lessons)

that is only 13 days training (if you trained 8 hours a day)

and if you take away the time you spend warming up an stretching you could half it again down to 7/8 days of solid kung fu.

Not a lot of training , any way after about a months solid training i quite ,
i think i might ask one of the instructors to come along and give his views? (when i see him next)

Iceman

are you saying you have only trained 1 month of lau gar????
What are you training in now??????????

There are no secrets in any martial arts only hard training unfortunately a lot of people only want to do it so they can say to there mates in the Pub, look I do a martial art.

Yep the techniques are in the forms but you should be shown from day one what there are for otherwise you might as well go to a gym and do Boxercise (no offence to all you that, it’s a good way to keep fit).

Hi dave i was using the example that training twice a week for 1 year only works out at 104 hrs so split in to weeks (assuming you trained for 8 hours each day) would be around 2 weeks training !

so my 1 month solid training works out at around two and a half years (at twice a week).

I dont do any thing at the moment, but i know i should unfortunatly family commitments and all that stuff gets in the way!

Youre wright Dave we were shown application of forms
, but as you know show one person a block and some one else could show you the same technique as a strike or a lock, nothing is ever black and white,
so i guess it depends on how much the student wants to understand.or some times the students would get confused, so i suppose that is why it takes so long to understand your techniques, but as i said even 6 years is only 78 days (of solid) training or there abouts.

that makes more sence thats what i get for speed reading lol

There is a new layout to my forum
Categories include
Introductions, Kickboxing, kung fu, tai chi, wing Chun, karate, mma, and more.

Have a look

Crayfish is also spot on when he says that a kickboxer of 6 years experience will destroy most martial artists who have trained 6 years in katas and forms.
Well he is nine times out of ten. For the remaining one out of ten,... Watch out I guess!

I firmly believe that this is true only because katas and forms are largely taught as callesthenic exercises rather than realistic fighting drills .....

There is a growing movement in karate these days reclaiming kata from the 'only useful to strengthen your body' brigade ..... I've seen some sensei recently who really make sense of the kata they teach (ie Iain Abernathy, Mark Carroll, Geoff Thompson, Graham Ravey etc etc) .....

I firmly believe that this is true only because katas and forms are largely taught as callesthenic exercises rather than realistic fighting drills .....

There is a growing movement in karate these days reclaiming kata from the 'only useful to strengthen your body' brigade ..... I've seen some sensei recently who really make sense of the kata they teach (ie Iain Abernathy, Mark Carroll, Geoff Thompson, Graham Ravey etc etc) .....

Well, yes - someone who trains in a more pragmatic fighting style is bound to win anyone who trains a more esoteric art, that's just the way things are.

While it's fun to perform katas and explore the "hidden secrets" that may or may not exist, I don't think it's a substitution to ring experience.

But it totally depends on what your reason for training is, after all. Not every body wants to jump in a ring and compete.

You'r right Adams and the phrase you mentioned was 'ring experiance' which is ok for competition, but some traditionalists would say that this has little to do with self defence.
I've heard the argument about no karateka have done well in UFC, (which is a very demanding combat sport) but many of the fights end up on the floor and last minutes, but the last place i would want to be when things kick off on a saturday night is on the floor.
But the thing is its not a question of which style is best but rather how hard you train at your chosen style/ system.
(No disrespect intended to any one especially those modern day gladiators that cage fight i wouldn't get in a ring with one.)

You'r right Adams and the phrase you mentioned was 'ring experiance' which is ok for competition, but some traditionalists would say that this has little to do with self defence.
I've heard the argument about no karateka have done well in UFC, (which is a very demanding combat sport) but many of the fights end up on the floor and last minutes, but the last place i would want to be when things kick off on a saturday night is on the floor.
But the thing is its not a question of which style is best but rather how hard you train at your chosen style/ system.
(No disrespect intended to any one especially those modern day gladiators that cage fight i wouldn't get in a ring with one.)


The key point there is that the fights end up on the floor, despite the karateka not wanting to go there.
Which implies to me that they need to do some cross training in order to practice staying on their feet if they really don't want to roll on the floor.

You're quite right that in a self defence situation the last place you want to be is rolling in the glass and spilt beer whilst potential friends of your attacker kick your head in. In order to stop that scenario happening you have to train either take down defences, or train your groundwork to allow you to quickly get back to your feet. Ignoring it because you don't like rolling on the floor is sticking your head in the sand.

The ground's a completely different game, but I'm glad that I started off by learning that first as it gives me a level of control that most people don't have - if I find myself struggling with the standing game, I find moving to grappling or the floor quite easy, and it's amazing how many people only have one or the other. I've found that some people who would obliterate me standing up are fairly manageable on the floor, while people with incredible ground games don't always train strikes. I don't excel at either area (maybe somewhat better on the ground) but I'm quite glad that I've got both worlds to choose from.

As Cyclone says, ignoring something won't make it go away, and to have any chance of getting back to your feet or in a less dangerous position when someone does pick you up from behind in that saturday night scenario you need to have a lot of technique and experience behind you.

Obviously the harder you train the better you'll be, but training something relevant makes a big difference, someone can train very very hard at kayaking and apart from the fitness/strength benefits it won't do much for their fighting technique.

I find that each style is useful for a different situation e.g. BJJ for the floor and submissions, kickboxing because of the maneuverability and defence, thai boxing because of the knees, elbows, power kicks and body conditioning... possibly karate for fighting multiple weaker / less skilled opponents due to the stability of the stance... and so on. To know how to deal with a practitioner of another style I find it helps to have a few different styles / strategies to choose from, matching strengths to weaknesses.

I am by no means an expert inh martial arts, but I agree with the ideas behind this, however I would probably prefer to get a fair grasp and comfort in one area before training everything. It may take longer, but in regards to a complete novice it would be quite overwhelming no?

In my opinion all you need to train for if you want to use BJJ on the street is how to stand up. This would mean knowing how to get you legs in between you and your opponent (guard) and going from there. I doubt this would take most people more than a month to learn sufficiently. Most people don't have the time to learn several different martial arts for self protection, and ideally all martial arts classes would cover this eventuality. In fact every martial art should train for every eventuality if that's what they are really for (see my thread on reasons for training ;) )

Emptycup: it all depends on what you're aiming for. If you're really enthusiastic about it, I can highly recommend training two completely different styles, one pure striking and one pure grappling (e.g. muay thai and BJJ, to pick two out of a hat).

But, if you're just scouting out what it's all about, I'd either go for jujitsu, which is a good introduction, or just check out a few clubs and find one where you like the atmosphere. Important thing at first is for you to enjoy it - I get a lot of enjoyment out of martial arts and always have done no matter where I've been taking them at the time, but having tried a lot of clubs, I wouldn't have stuck it at a few of them - is really important to find a club that suits you as they're all completely different.

are you assuming that the person trying to keep you on the floor is completely unskilled? Sounds like a dangerous assumption to me.
Next you'll be assuming that they can't punch, or fight at all, in which case a month or two of most any martial art should be enough for self defence.

The key (or so i've been told) to achieving anything on the floor be that a submission or an escape to stand up, is position. You need to be better at gaining good position than your opponent, who in real life might happen to be several stone bigger than you and might fight in the pub every weekend.

Cyclone,

How many people who bother to train martial arts are the kind of fool that goes around starting fights all the time? They are too busy training to get into trouble! I bet less than 10% of all martial artists have been in a fight in the last year and of that 0% were against another person that trains! In my experience a person who dedicates themselves to something like martial arts is actually the last sort of person to run into trouble because of who they are, where they go and who they mix with.

Are these sort of statistics (albeit made-up) the sort of thing you should dedicate hours of your week to overcoming? Is it all about being 'harder' than everyone else?

Yup. :)

Nice to be able to stand in a crowded room and think chances are I wouldn't be seriously physically threatened by any one of these people.

That isn't the main reason why I train, but it is a great bonus. In an analagous situation, a runner wouldn't train running for the express purpose of escaping a plague of zombie dinosaurs, but it'd still be a nice bonus when the terrible reptiles do rise from the dead. Can get a lot of things out of martial arts and I reckon it's a good idea to make sure you're getting the most out for the time you put in, as with any activity.

I have known a few fairly aggressive martial artists to be honest, who probably did start fights or at least got into a few... some of them were very competent, too. Suppose the chances of two of them happening to fight each other are fairly slim though, unless it was a my-style-is-better-than-yours argument in a pub, which I can imagine happening. Or a ninja death duel of some sort, I guess.

Iisn't that a round a bout way of saying that martial arts is an ego boost?

I personally can stand in a room of people without feeling threatened because i'm not aggressive and I know how to carry myself in a way that doesn't make me seem like a victim. I also try and avoid places where trouble might occur.

I reckon it's a good idea to make sure you're getting the most out for the time you put in, as with any activity.

This somes up the whole point of why i'm 'preaching' this stuff that makes sense in my head. I believe that the majority of good that comes from martial arts comes from the polar opposite of training to be hard.

I'd say being hard is one benefit which shouldn't be ignored, and that out of two martial arts where all else is equal but one makes you a better fighter in the long run it's an obvious choice. Also better when going to new clubs and so on to have more of an idea of what works and what doesn't.

Iisn't that a round a bout way of saying that martial arts is an ego boost?

I personally can stand in a room of people without feeling threatened because i'm not aggressive and I know how to carry myself in a way that doesn't make me seem like a victim. I also try and avoid places where trouble might occur.



This somes up the whole point of why i'm 'preaching' this stuff that makes sense in my head. I believe that the majority of good that comes from martial arts comes from the polar opposite of training to be hard.

Hi Jimanyjim,
What martial arts do you train in and where do you train? Just curious thats all.

Hi Chefkicker,

I train BJJ at Gracie Barra Sheffield, and at home (i'm a student) I train BJJ and boxing at a local gym.

My views don't necessarily reflect their views so don't blame Jon :hihi: !

Oooh, hi Jim. Wasn't sure if it was you or t'other Jim.

Crayfish (Chris?) just to clarify i'm the smaller Jim who is normally called James!

Yep! plus more words so I can post

Cyclone,

How many people who bother to train martial arts are the kind of fool that goes around starting fights all the time? They are too busy training to get into trouble! I bet less than 10% of all martial artists have been in a fight in the last year and of that 0% were against another person that trains! In my experience a person who dedicates themselves to something like martial arts is actually the last sort of person to run into trouble because of who they are, where they go and who they mix with.

Are these sort of statistics (albeit made-up) the sort of thing you should dedicate hours of your week to overcoming? Is it all about being 'harder' than everyone else?


I completely agree, but if self defence is one of your objectives, then be realistic about it. You might one day end up using it, it might not be an unskilled drunken yob. The sort of people who start fights outside bars (often picking a target at random) do it a lot. They may not be training in a dojo, but they are not unskilled.
If you train to beat the lowest common denominator then you might one day get a nasty surprise.

Cyclone we don’t need to assume that they can't punch, Most people cant lol that’s why they are so many people doing ground work these days lol


Do people not find it a little strange that fully grown men want to roll around on the floor with tight shorts on?????? Lol what happened to the gi????? lol

Yeh it's nearly as strange as people dancing around doing super secret moves because they are too scared to step up and box.


By the way it's rare (i've never seen it) that anyone wears tight shorts while training lol, normally the gi or normal people shorts and t-shirt.

Crayfish (Chris?) just to clarify i'm the smaller Jim who is normally called James!

Let me guess James Rigby?

Do people not find it a little strange that fully grown men want to roll around on the floor with tight shorts on?????? Lol what happened to the gi????? lol

The reason for that is simple. People don't wear a gi in the street. In fact, you can easily identify any would be attacker, as we've worked out that anyone violent will
undoubtedly be wearing hotpants - thus making our shorts training 300% more realistic.

Or seriously, gi's are bloody hot when you're rolling around on the floor (i.e. doing actual strenuous exercise) especially in summer, and people can grab hold of them and do annoying things to you. Don't like gi's meself.

No never heard of James Rigby. What is it about what i've said that made you think i'm him?

Cyclone we don’t need to assume that they can't punch, Most people cant lol that’s why they are so many people doing ground work these days lol


Do people not find it a little strange that fully grown men want to roll around on the floor with tight shorts on?????? Lol what happened to the gi????? lol


assuming that though if you have to defend yourself is the wrong attitude.

Cyclone it was a joke about the punch.


So if you are training for the real then still can’t get why people would want to put on shorts if it was to be more real they would have every day clothes on.
But I certainly can understand why people do not want to train in a Gi in the hot summer.



Jimanyjim
Is that a dig????
I have stepped into the ring but it’s not something I would want to do anymore. Im getting to old and it hurts when you get to my age lol

I'm just saying that in the grand scheme of things, rolling (sparring) isn't that odd compared to the lengths people will go to to avoid getting punched in the face! OK it might look odd but the sparring part is what makes it beneficial.

The clothing bit is irrelevant. If I rely on using the gi to control my opponent, and I fight someone who isn't wearing a gi, i'm in trouble hence shorts and t-shirt training.