Is everyone as fed up with this moron as much as me?
Every time you pick up a newspaper or watch the news,you get the fact that he is up for deportation but his 'human rights' are being violated.
Why don't the powers that be just send him a one way ticket to [********] forthwith.
The fact that he rants about killing all the British 'infidels'should be enough to get him out as in my eyes that is treason.
If he does hate this country and its citizens as much as he says,why doesn't he go home under his own steam.Oh I forgot,he wont get ££££s of benefits and a free house for his [******] brood in his homeland.

P.S mods,I hope this is accepable as free speech!

Mod: The language isn't acceptable!

what annoys me is that he gets legal aid i always thought it was for genuine cases ?

i was born here yet i cant get legal aid to fight my case yet we give legal aid to someone who would be happy to have us all blown up
crazy world:loopy:

It's all sensationalism...

When comment is needed by the tabloids/media from the muslim community, abu hamza is hounded out and then as expected he goes off ranting and raving like the loony he is....


Giving the impression that he represents all muslims in the UK.

He doesn't speak for the muslim community.


The majority of muslims are law abiding and hard working citizens who do not share his views....



Pinlock
---------------
This space for rent

Originally posted by pinlock
It's all sensationalism...

When comment is needed by the tabloids/media from the muslim community, abu hamza is hounded out and then as expected he goes off ranting and raving like the loony he is....


Giving the impression that he represents all muslims in the UK.

He doesn't speak for the muslim community.


The majority of muslims are law abiding and hard working citizens who do not share his views....



Pinlock
---------------
This space for rent


Thats all well and good, but under cover filmings have shown that he does more than "rant and rave like a loony". He preaches, to hundreds of muslims (yes, it might be a minority of muslims that share his views but enough still do to cause a lot of agony), and has been recorded telling muslims to kill people in their own country. When one of the brainwashed products of his loony "rants" ends up killing or maiming someone you know, come back here and tell everyone how sensationalist it all is.

Don't you mean "it might be a majority of muslims that don't share his views??"





pinlock



----------------
Live in hope,Die in Hathersage

Originally posted by pinlock
Don't you mean "it might be a majority of muslims that don't share his views??"


No, I meant "it might be a minority of muslims that share his views " and have promptly edited.

Originally posted by uncleheed
Why don't the powers that be just send him a one way ticket to [*********] forthwith.

About a year ago, The Sun newspaper bought him a one way ticket back to his homeland - needless to say the loser is still here.

Originally posted by dinp
About a year ago, The Sun newspaper bought him a one way ticket back to his homeland - needless to say the loser is still here.

i think its us who are the losers as he is obviously taking this country to the cleaners. wants us all killed, but quite happy to parasite off the country he hates. cant think of any other country which would put up with this, however, this is supposed to be a plus point for Britain according to some. no, i can't figure that one out either.

I know you know this...

But keep this on topic and free of personal stuff.

:thumbsup:

[several posts removed]

Originally posted by Killian
i think its us who are the losers as he is obviously taking this country to the cleaners. wants us all killed, but quite happy to parasite off the country he hates. cant think of any other country which would put up with this, however, this is supposed to be a plus point for Britain according to some. no, i can't figure that one out either.

We personally aren't losers, its the immigration system which Tony Blair today has pledged to fully reform. According to the news, it'll be another year at the earliest before he can be deported.

I'm surprised M15 agents aren't attending his rants... or maybe they are ;) Maybe he's a valuable asset to them, who knows??

Originally posted by uncleheed
Is everyone as fed up with this moron as much as me?
Every time you pick up a newspaper or watch the news,you get the fact that he is up for deportation but his 'human rights' are being violated.
Why don't the powers that be just send him a one way ticket to Pissofski forthwith.
The fact that he rants about killing all the British 'infidels'should be enough to get him out as in my eyes that is treason.
If he does hate this country and its citizens as much as he says,why doesn't he go home under his own steam.Oh I forgot,he wont get ££££s of benefits and a free house for his ******* brood in his homeland.

P.S mods,I hope this is accepable as free speech!

There is a basic problem with the idea of deporting Hook (as satisfying as it would be). He's a British citizen. You can't deport British citizens.

While Hamza's pronouncements are extremely unpleasant, the question is whether he has said anything illegal. If he has, then he should be prosecuted. If you think he has said something illegal, and the powers that be are doing nothing, then somebody could mount a private prosecution against him.

Why is this not done? :mad:

I am British born and bred and love this country with all my heart but am also Muslim by faith. However I cannot stand what Abu Humza and his likes stand for, they know about as much of Islam as a green eyed martian from Mars.
I do not condone anything he has ever said and as far as i am concerned the goverment should use the anti-terrorism act to arrest him, or at the very least send him away from here. If he does not like this country then why stay.

I am sorry that too many people feel this is too harsh a thing to say, but its not racist, just the truth.

I've had enough od his mad lunatic ramblings and think its about time we got rid of him.

is he british? I thought he was egyptian?

As I understand it he went through a marriage ceremony with a British woman some years ago and therefore claimed citizenship.

he reminds me of the kind of villain you would get on James Bond, what with his hook and glass eye

There is an old martial arts film called "Enter the Ninja" where one of the main bad guys had a hook and is a horrid little man.

well regardless if he british citizen or not his butt should be kicked out for good. how can he get away with it.
people like him get to stay here while honest people get thrown like the poor woman in the paper whose husband went missin so they sent her back to pakistan and took her daughter away from her n placed her into care. that is wrong but kickin him out is not!

it was reported in papers last week that he was wanted in another country for one thing or another so how come we are not sending him there to face the charges??
instead we let him stay here n give him what he wants,its a joke!! x

He had his British citizenship revoked last April - we reckoned we were allowed to do it as he was holding dual citizenship but according to his lawyer he only had British citizenship in which case we couldn't revoke it as that would leave him stateless.

I haven't a clue if they cleared it up though...

I agree he should be deported. Our country would be better of without him and similar bigots.

bet he hasnt got many choices when going to fancy dress

"er... evil villain or pirate"

i agree he should be arrested. he has advised Muslims in this country to turn themselves into suicide bombers (although he obviously doesn't fancy doing this himself), which must be infringing some law or other? but he is a pathetic individual and obviously quite insane.

Yep, Just symbolic of the type of people behind the brainwashing. 'No brochure available'.

Originally posted by slimsid2000
I agree he should be deported. Our country would be better of without him and similar bigots. Yup.. agreed. He's as mad as a brush and as dangerous as a mongoose with its tail on fire.

He is entitled to his opinion the same as everyone else,just because you dont agreewith him is not an excuse to deport him.whatever happend to free speach?

When it comes to free speech you can have too much of a good thing.

Respecting the fact that he looks like a bag o' burnt lego, this humanoid terrapin is doing what he believes in. He's feeding off the country he hates, whilst building up hate around him from both sides.
In a sick way, it's all quite clever - the country he despises is paying him to survive and saying nothing when it comes to it's own citizens venting their anger.
Got to admit the pancake has got balls - even if they may be ball-bearings, like his metallistic arm.

Originally posted by billycotton
He is entitled to his opinion the same as everyone else,just because you dont agreewith him is not an excuse to deport him.whatever happend to free speach?

this is a ridiculous statement. he has told muslims in this country to turn themselves into suicide bombers. that's taking free speech over the limits, don't you think? what would you say if someone had advocated killing muslims? would you also say they are entitled to their opinion. yes, there should be free speech, but inciting people to murder is another matter.

Well to give him credit - He's consistant (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?postid=105054#post105054)

Originally posted by billycotton
He is entitled to his opinion the same as everyone else,just because you dont agreewith him is not an excuse to deport him.whatever happend to free speach?
Freedom of speech he has. Freedom to incite people to kill others he does not. That is a crime and right so don't you think Billyb*llocks?!?

Hamza has failed to turn up in court because his toenails were 'too long' and he claimed he is unable to walk.

Is this an acceptable excuse?

A video link was offered but Hamaz refused to leave his sell.

IMO he should have been carried or had his toenails clipped.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4145325.stm

If criminals in prison were any good these days they'd have broken his legs long ago.
Toenails would then not be an issue as he would have his own state funded wheelcahair.

I feel he's slipped up not having chiropody as it's a FREE service to con's.

Only us daft workers have to pay for it!

Originally posted by Lickszz
Hamza has failed to turn up in court because his toenails were 'too long' and he claimed he is unable to walk.





What's wrong with chucking him in a wheelie bin and wheeling him round there?

Originally posted by uncleheed
Is everyone as fed up with this moron as much as me?
Every time you pick up a newspaper or watch the news,you get the fact that he is up for deportation but his 'human rights' are being violated.
Why don't the powers that be just send him a one way ticket to [********] forthwith.
The fact that he rants about killing all the British 'infidels'should be enough to get him out as in my eyes that is treason.
If he does hate this country and its citizens as much as he says,why doesn't he go home under his own steam.Oh I forgot,he wont get ££££s of benefits and a free house for his [******] brood in his homeland.

P.S mods,I hope this is accepable as free speech!

Mod: The language isn't acceptable!

don't get me started on this one,i don't want banning again,i'd better keep my trap shut:|

What an utter w*nker this man is , claims the dole with one hand and aims a rifle with the other.

Pure evil.

This turd should have been banged up ages ago, but thanks to PC world t*ssers like him managed to rant and rave , telling young british muslims to turn on there fellow country men and kill them in the name of Islam.

Utter A hole

Hope the Yanks get him, because hes gonna have a bad time of it in an american prison.

They dont ***** about over there.

Originally posted by jonsastar
What an utter w*nker this man is , claims the dole with one hand and aims a rifle with the other.



Magic jonsastar:thumbsup:

Poor bugger must have been born with three hands.:hihi:

Originally posted by markham
Magic jonsastar:thumbsup:

Poor bugger must have been born with three hands.:hihi:

Nice one Markham :thumbsup: I always wonder how he goes on when he wipes his botty......I bet he's careful :gag:

Originally posted by owdlad
Nice one Markham :thumbsup: I always wonder how he goes on when he wipes his botty......I bet he's careful :gag:


how does he fast forward the video past the crap bits whilst having an ham shank.......:hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

Originally posted by owdlad
Nice one Markham :thumbsup: I always wonder how he goes on when he wipes his botty......I bet he's careful :gag:

Shouldn't be a problem Owdlad. Apparently he craps through his mouth [wiping that is how he put his eye out], and speaks through his backside [that's why he is always seen speaking while stood up]

Originally posted by markham
Magic jonsastar:thumbsup:

Poor bugger must have been born with three hands.:hihi:

Doh.

But you know what I mean. :thumbsup:

Originally posted by jonsastar
Doh.

But you know what I mean. :thumbsup:

Of course we know....but it's happy hour :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

It was my happy hour the other day at about this time, but someone pulled a good thread from under my nose! HINT, HINT:suspect:

Anyhow, back to Abu [thanks for the state handout you infidel pigs] Hamza.

Next month foxhunting will be banned. Mmmmm! What will those nice country folk chase then?

Abu Hunting season sounds good.

:clap:

Judging from the [amusing] comments so far, I'll take it that most contributors do not favour ecumenical dialogue with Abu Hamza? He he.

Never did trust anyone who doesn't look me square in the eyes, or who isn't prepared to hold his hand up when he's wrong.

I'm one of those infidels who he's wanting to blow up.

Anyway, someone ought to tell him that BRITISH has two 'eyes'!

Originally posted by markham
[B]It was my happy hour the other day at about this time, but someone pulled a good thread from under my nose! HINT, HINT:suspect:



Hint taken....

Haven't forgotten, I'm still peering in to it amongst other things.

Anyway, back to your thread!

Joe

Thanks Joe....(creep, creep):thumbsup:

Here's your thread back uncleheed...sorry :P

This issue of Abu Hamza, would be a great vote grabber for any political party that has the bottle to see it through, why is it the Government seems to just accept this situation?

don't get me started on this one,i don't want banning again,i'd better keep my trap shut
nice one Kirky i am with you on this one.

The Sun newspaper says (so it must be true:suspect: )
that Abu, (the fine standing brit) needs a new hook at the cost of £25,000 to the tax payer.

My point is, the sun showed ( after consulting with blue peter presenters) how to make him a new one out of plastic and tin foil for the cost of 27p.

Right then, if its only to wipe his crack, i would go with the sun, (but only on this occasion :hihi: )

Originally posted by viking
nice one Kirky i am with you on this one.

The Sun newspaper says (so it must be true:suspect: )
that Abu, (the fine standing brit) needs a new hook at the cost of £25,000 to the tax payer.

My point is, the sun showed ( after consulting with blue peter presenters) how to make him a new one out of plastic and tin foil for the cost of 27p.

Right then, if its only to wipe his crack, i would go with the sun, (but only on this occasion :hihi: ) how can it cost £ 25000 for a stainless steal ( made in sheffield ?) hook ?

Originally posted by billycotton
He is entitled to his opinion the same as everyone else,just because you dont agreewith him is not an excuse to deport him.whatever happend to free speach?

well if thats the case with regards to hooky...then he wont mind some racial abuse thrown back at him just as much as he incites racial hatred towards us brits etc..but no!...he'll hide behind the fact that hes been persecuted cos hes a muslim and will get away with it...i believe in FOS and it should work both ways, which unfortunatly it doesnt ....

Originally posted by uncleheed
Why don't the powers that be just send him a one way ticket to [********] forthwith.


I cant understand why everyone thinks muslims JUST come from Pakistan? Does that mean all the Brits all over the world come from England?:confused:

A little light reading for you all to savour.

http://www.al-bab.com/yemen/hamza/hamza1.htm

Seems he lost BOTH hands! Watching him brush his teeth must be a laugh a minute.

He has just been found guilty of inciting murder.

He has just been found guilty of inciting murder.


http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1211526,00.html

He has just been found guilty of inciting murder.

Source? It's not on the BBC website.

EDIT: Ignore that, posted whilst cgksheff put the link up.

Excellent result! They've thrown the book at him.

When's sentencing?

Sorry, just saw the verdicts coming up on Sky News on the plasma screen at work, no URL at the time.

BBC report. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4689556.stm)

I wish they'd throw some ninja stars at him as well as the book.

I hope he gets banged up with someone who'll give him what he has coming to him every night... A good battering.

Chop both his hands off and make him scrub the prison floors.

Don't you mean "it might be a majority of muslims that don't share his views??"





pinlock



----------------
Live in hope,Die in Hathersage

Live in Castleton and be beyond Hope

Chop both his hands off and make him scrub the prison floors.

Sharia law?

sky news reporter is saying another hearing will now be set to determine whether hamza will be extradited to the usa for a further trial,sentencing to take place at 2 15 pm today

Chop both his hands off and make him scrub the prison floors.

I think he's only got one already.

I think he ought to be sent to the US forthwith, not least because the minumum sentence he is likely to get there is 200 years without possibility of parole, whereas over here the maximum he is likely to get will be 30 hours community service (deferred). Moreover, in the US he will be expected to pay for his own hooks.

His names down for the Prison Christmas panto, they're doing Peter Pan.......

:D

His names down for the Prison Christmas panto, they're doing Peter Pan.......

:D
:hihi: :hihi: thanks for that dk, but i dont think he looks like a crocodile?

[QUOTE]
Excellent result! They've thrown the book at him.

Bet he couldn't catch it.

There is an old martial arts film called "Enter the Ninja" where one of the main bad guys had a hook and is a horrid little man.
Sounds like gay porn to me :D

Abu Hamza should be punished according to sharia law. I don't know much about it, but I'm sure there must be something in there allowing us to chop off his remaining appendages. :hihi:

Don't be so daft. :nono:

We don't have Sharia law, and we never will. That's what seperates us (in our eyes) to some countries where there is no freedom or justice or concern for human rights.

We don't have Sharia law, and we never will.

Not quite true.

We may not have 'sharia' in our statutes, but within Islamic communities in the UK there is opportunity to submit to Sharia settlement of disputes and "offences".

All together now:

"Abu Hamza,
Abu Hamza,
good-bye,
Abu Hamza"

"La la la la,
whay aaaa,
good-bye"

"Abu Hamza,
Abu Hamza,
good -bye,
Abu Hamza"

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :clap: :clap: :clap: :banana: :banana:

http://photobucket.com/albums/d44/Slimsid2000/?action=view&current=hamza.jpg

His names down for the Prison Christmas panto, they're doing Peter Pan.......

:D

But will he have to share a cell with Tinkerbell?:hihi:

Not quite true.

We may not have 'sharia' in our statutes, but within Islamic communities in the UK there is opportunity to submit to Sharia settlement of disputes and "offences".
We still don't have Sharia law regardless of what people choose to do behind closed doors.

I'm not sure that they can send him to America. Don't they now insist on iris scans???

I'm sure that the British people have a soft spot for this man... the Goodwin Sands.

A very painful and unpleasant accident has just been reported form the toilets of Bellmarsh high security prison.

http://photobucket.com/albums/d44/Slimsid2000/?action=view&current=toilet.jpg

Hamza is in the UK still because he's too valuable a piece in the whole West v's East media circus, got to stoke the fire with something and this guys perfect it works a treat just look at this thread - how about if Griffin had been prosecuted for inciting brutal attacks on asian, what then? an outcry for the right to speak freely. freedom of speech only works if you let people say what they like even if you despise their views. double standards

Seven years? (http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1211526,00.html) Is that all!? :o

Out on appeal by the weekend.

We cant be seen being too hard on the Muslim community

This is great news. I doubt that the appeal court will overturn this, they may even add a few years on.

I hope he's shipped of to the USA for another trial, would save us the trouble of keeping him in jail too.

Plus the drug dealing joker who dressed as a suicide bomber is dragged back to jail, what a good day.

:hihi:

double standardsSour grapes. :D

hes only got seven years! Whats that, he will only serve about 4 of them aswell! We should still have death penalty and he could have that instead!

Considering that there was an extradition request by the USA that was turned down, it was very unlikely that that this prosecution would fail.

It is is equally unlikely that any appeal will succeed, either.

hes only got seven years! Whats that, he will only serve about 4 of them aswell! We should still have death penalty and he could have that instead!

3 1/2 to quote the BBC.

Hamza is to serve half of his seven year sentence, Did he spend any time on remand for this? As that'll get docked from his time. I can see him having a bit of fun and games at the hands of some of the cons.

Picture the scene:

Big Bob: "Hamza, pick up the soap!"

Abu Hamza: "Sorry, no can do. It's me hand/claw type affair - means I can't grasp it properly."

Big Bob: "Alright, keep look out while I assault another new guy in the showers."

Abu Hamza: "Sorry, no can do again I'm afraid. It's me gammy eye. I'm partially sighted me and I'll not be able to see a screw coming."

Big Bob: "Oh FFS! Forget it!"

Don't be so daft. :nono:

We don't have Sharia law, and we never will. That's what seperates us (in our eyes) to some countries where there is no freedom or justice or concern for human rights.

I thought by putting a laughing face in I made it obvious that it was a joke, but the next time I'll actually write the words 'thats a joke' to save any further wear and tear on soap boxes. That's a joke.

They could always give him a cell with no windows, and tell him that east is in the other direction.

That should be worth a few years of laughs for the screws and other inmates.

Then tell him about it on his release.

:hihi:

Hamza is in the UK still because he's too valuable a piece in the whole West v's East media circus, got to stoke the fire with something and this guys perfect it works a treat just look at this thread - how about if Griffin had been prosecuted for inciting brutal attacks on asian, what then? an outcry for the right to speak freely. freedom of speech only works if you let people say what they like even if you despise their views. double standards

Griffin was abusive about Asians without specifically saying people should attack them, and he should have been nicked for it, but I doubt the jury was rigged or anything. Hamza is on tape urging Muslims to poison, bomb, shoot and stab non Muslims. It's a bit stronger. Especially in the wake of July 7.

I don't think Hamza takes his orders from the Western media either.

When one of the brainwashed products of his loony "rants" ends up killing or maiming someone you know, come back here and tell everyone how sensationalist it all is.

Maybe not in the same league as killing but Maggie Thatcher certainly fooked a fair few people over in her time! Good old Conservatives hey.

Considering that there was an extradition request by the USA that was turned down, it was very unlikely that that this prosecution would fail.



The extradition request from the USA was not, technically speaking, turned down. Abu Hamza was arrested and charged with alleged offences that occurred in the UK. As such, UK law took precedence. He has now been tried, found guilty and sentenced. The USA request for extradition still remains in force. It is highly unlikely that the USA will drop their request for extradition.

Indeed, I suspect that his conviction in the UK will add strength to the application to extradite him. Once Abu Hamza has served his prison sentence in the UK, the USA will still be waiting to put him on trial.

The extradition request from the USA was not, technically speaking, turned down. Abu Hamza was arrested and charged with alleged offences that occurred in the UK. As such, UK law took precedence. He has now been tried, found guilty and sentenced. The USA request for extradition still remains in force. It is highly unlikely that the USA will drop their request for extradition.

Indeed, I suspect that his conviction in the UK will add strength to the application to extradite him. Once Abu Hamza has served his prison sentence in the UK, the USA will still be waiting to put him on trial.

I actually agree with you..... Maybe it might just make future terrorist figures think again.... at least we process our law in a civilized and dignified way but I do think Griffin got off lightly only cos they couldn't prove the word "kill" or "hate" which Hamza was stupid enough to use. Far as I'm concerned Griffin still needs a bit of time away from us all to reflect.

To reap some of the money it will cost to keep this "Abu" back, I suggest that his hook is taken away (Before he has someones eye out) and put to better use. SUGGESTION . (http://www.qualityfare.com/IMAGES/meat_rack1.jpg) :thumbsup:

To reap some of the money it will cost to keep this "Abu" back, I suggest that his hook is taken away (Before he has someones eye out) and put to better use. SUGGESTION . (http://www.qualityfare.com/IMAGES/meat_rack1.jpg) :thumbsup:
:hihi: :hihi: hook,line,and stinker :hihi:

I actually agree with you..... Maybe it might just make future terrorist figures think again.... at least we process our law in a civilized and dignified way but I do think Griffin got off lightly only cos they couldn't prove the word "kill" or "hate" which Hamza was stupid enough to use. Far as I'm concerned Griffin still needs a bit of time away from us all to reflect.

Hear hear! I think it's especially dangerous for the British legal system to appear biased at the moment, and Griffin could do with some quiet solitude methinks! Maybe if he had a horrible disfigurement we would've banged him up faster??

Hear hear! I think it's especially dangerous for the British legal system to appear biased at the moment, and Griffin could do with some quiet solitude methinks! Maybe if he had a horrible disfigurement we would've banged him up faster??

Your argument is based on the false premise that the two cases were similar whereas in fact they were very different. You are not comparing like with like here. Hamza was charged with incitement to murder (among other things) and there was clear and irrefutable evidence that he was guilty. He was damned time and time again out of his own mouth.

Griffin was charged with incitement to racial hatred, but the case against him was weak, because the evidence amounted to him saying that he thought that Islam was a wicked religion (a matter of opinion); that gangs of Asians were preying on young white girls (a disputable 'fact'); and that Stephen Lawrence was killed by another black person (another disputable 'fact').

There is a difference between the expression of opinions and the articulation of disputable 'facts' on the one hand (however much you may find these statements repugant) and the explicit incitement to murder.

I agree that the case against Griffin was weaker, but I do not agree that what he presented was as open to interpretation as the jury decided. Incitement to racial hatred and incitement to murder seem pretty close to me, as the murders Hamza was inciting were based on religious or racial factors.

I think it's particularly unfortunate timing as people on both sides will read lots into a white christian getting let off his charges and an asian muslim not doing so, regardless of what actually happened and who was in the right or wrong.

I'm just concerned that unless everyone takes a step back soon, this 'conflict' will escalate further and lots more people will get killed!

I think it's particularly unfortunate timing as people on both sides will read lots into a white christian getting let off his charges and an asian muslim not doing so, regardless of what actually happened and who was in the right or wrong.

I think you're wrong, Dan - I think on this occasion the law has done well. This isn't the playground where a teacher has to dole out the same punishment to everyone to seem fair! They have both been tried by the law and sentenced appropriately and I think most right-minded people on either 'side' (the way you put that worries me!) will be able to see that.

I agree that the case against Griffin was weaker, but I do not agree that what he presented was as open to interpretation as the jury decided. Incitement to racial hatred and incitement to murder seem pretty close to me, as the murders Hamza was inciting were based on religious or racial factors.

I think it's particularly unfortunate timing as people on both sides will read lots into a white christian getting let off his charges and an asian muslim not doing so, regardless of what actually happened and who was in the right or wrong.

I'm just concerned that unless everyone takes a step back soon, this 'conflict' will escalate further and lots more people will get killed!

Criminal trials hinge on proof beyond reasonable doubt. There could be no reasonable doubt that Hamza explicitly incited people to murder. In this sense, it was an open and shut case. Griffin stated his opinions and also gave his take on certain events. The jury then had to interpret whether or not these statements amounted to incitement (thereby being forced to speculate on the impact of these words on others and upon the putative relationship between incitor and incitee) or whether they fell within the boundaries of freedom of speech. In this case there was considerable scope for reasonable doubt (as there would have been in Hamza's case had he confined himself to saying nasty things about Christianity or highlighting Christian crimes).

I think you're wrong, Dan - I think on this occasion the law has done well. This isn't the playground where a teacher has to dole out the same punishment to everyone to seem fair! They have both been tried by the law and sentenced appropriately and I think most right-minded people on either 'side' (the way you put that worries me!) will be able to see that.

I hope you're right! I also agree with your earlier comment about Griffin doing more harm inside than out, but I still worry that the government will be seen by the extremists to be biased.

Using the term 'sides' is a bit lazy I admit as it's never so clear cut. Must be listening to all the media balls that's put it in my head!

Lord Chaverly - Thanks for the explanation. I can see your point now!

I was watching newsnight last night, and there were some interesting facts to this whole episode.

Firstly that in 1999 when he was released by the Police, they felt that his 'Encyclopedia of Afghani Jihad' was not that bad and they returned it to him !

Secondly, If they had actually locked him up then, September the 11th, as well as July the 7th would not have necessarily happened!

what was amusing was to hear someone say that he was quite clever in sticking to the fringes of the law (where as when I listened to it he seemed quite blatant!).

I can see conspiracy stories starting similar to the stories in America vis a vi 9/11 that the authorities deliberately allowed things to occur as they wanted a new 'Pearl Harbour' type event.

I can see conspiracy stories starting similar to the stories in America vis a vi 9/11 that the authorities deliberately allowed things to occur as they wanted a new 'Pearl Harbour' type event.

This particular conspiracy theory has been floating around for some time now and is absurd as it is bizarre. There is considerable evidence that most Western governments (with the possible exception of France) underestimated the potential threat from Al Quaida prior to 9/11. This is for example well documented in the case of the US (read Richard Clarke's book on the subject). The question is, why did they underestimate it?

In America's case, the evidence points to there being a paradigm lag in threat perceptions. The Bush administration for example was stacked with old cold war warriors who had not woken up to the fact that we were living in a post cold war world. An insight into this is provided by Clarke, who asked for a meeting with Condoleeza Rice to discuss the threat posed by Al Quaida. According to his account of the interview, Rice didn't seem to understand what he was talking about. The threat simply didn't register in the mind of a woman whose whole career had been built upon cold war premises. Its the old story of generals always preparing for the last battle. The cock up theory of history is usually more plausible, and usually has a lot more substance, than conspiracy theories

The cock up theory of history...

Great title for a book! I can picture it on my coffee table now!!

I see that Abu Hamza refused to stand whilst being sentenced. The judge should have charged him with contempt of court and banged him up until he apologized. If he failed to do this the judge should have added more time to his sentence. This dipstick has obviously got no respect for the British legal system. I hope that the Americans do get their hands on him when he's released.

As the debate in the public prints about the Hamza case has now shifted to the issue of why he was not prosecuted earlier, I think there is another intriguing mystery which the British public would like cleared up: how does he wipe his bum? :confused:

Lord Chaverly et al ,

I'm almost sure that most Islamic people don't " wipe " their bums ; I haven't had a lot of personal experience concerning this , you understand ; I mean I haven't done any surveys or anything .
However , I'm sure that most Muslims wash their bottoms with their left hand. So , the real question is , " How does he manipulate the water spray [ what else ?] to direct it to the vital part ? "
I mean , if he didn't get the knack , it could lead to some hilarious results , rather like an old Laurel and Hardy film .

Hamza has failed to turn up in court because his toenails were 'too long' and he claimed he is unable to walk.

Is this an acceptable excuse?

A video link was offered but Hamaz refused to leave his sell.

IMO he should have been carried or had his toenails clipped.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4145325.stm
have you tried to cut your toenails with a hook, and a glass eye, dont think he could bight them, since he got teeth like a wild yak.

Mod note:

Right... enough! You're now taking the rise out of the disabled generally and it's causing offence.

A little decorum please, and back to the subject.

This particular conspiracy theory has been floating around for some time now and is absurd as it is bizarre. There is considerable evidence that most Western governments (with the possible exception of France) underestimated the potential threat from Al Quaida prior to 9/11. This is for example well documented in the case of the US (read Richard Clarke's book on the subject). The question is, why did they underestimate it?

In America's case, the evidence points to there being a paradigm lag in threat perceptions. The Bush administration for example was stacked with old cold war warriors who had not woken up to the fact that we were living in a post cold war world. An insight into this is provided by Clarke, who asked for a meeting with Condoleeza Rice to discuss the threat posed by Al Quaida. According to his account of the interview, Rice didn't seem to understand what he was talking about. The threat simply didn't register in the mind of a woman whose whole career had been built upon cold war premises. Its the old story of generals always preparing for the last battle. The cock up theory of history is usually more plausible, and usually has a lot more substance, than conspiracy theories

Its also true that numerous ex intelligence officers have claimed that there has always been political interference in their work, often being told to halt investigations etc.

('Condy' ? lol, wasn't she on record back in 98 along with Colin 'I've got anthrax in my hand' Powell as saying that Iraq was no threat and the Saddam was under control ? Ofcourse that was before he started selling oil in Euro's.)

The build up to the recent war in Iraq kind of highlighted the political interference in 'intelligence gathering' opertions.

I totally agree that the intelligence mindset was very much cold war related, aswell as the ethos of using technology rather than actual people on the ground.

Ofcourse the cockup theory is always a good option, but still makes you wonder. Coming to think of it, I never saw the idiots like Al-Muhajiroon before Abu Hamza 'graced' these shores.