OUR NEIGHBORHOOD HAS BEEN PLAGUED WITH TEENAGE HOOLIGANS THIS EVENING.

HOPEDALE ROAD AT FRECHEVILLE. A GROUP OF APPROXIMATELY 8 TEENAGERS BETWEEN THE AGES OF 11-17 HAVE RUN DOWN THE ROAD SMASHING ALL CARS PARKED USING BASEBALL BATS AND OTHER WEAPONS.

THEY WERE CHASED AND CAUGHT BY THE POLICE - BUT AS NOBODY HAS BEEN ABLE TO POSITIVELY IDENTIFY THEM - GUESS WHAT? IT'S A SLAP ON THE WRIST AND A CHAT TO THE PARENTS - WHAT GOOD WILL THAT DO? THE PARENTS OBVIOUSLY CAN'T CONTROL THEM OR THEY WOULDN'T BE OUT AT THIS HOUR SMASHING UP CARS.

ARE THESE YOUR KIDS? WHY THE HELL DON'T YOU KNOW WHAT THEY ARE UP TO?

DO YOU KNOW WHO THEY ARE?

IT COULD BE YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD NEXT - THEY NEED STOPPING. PLEASE BE VIGILENT.

ONE GIRL, YOUNG - BETWEEN AGE 11-16, BLONDE HAIR WITH A SILVERY GREY COAT...MALES BETWEEEN 12-17 DARK CLOTHING, WHITE, ONE WITH BLACK SCARF COVERING FACE. MOSTLY WITH BASEBALL CAPS.

As a regular forummer - I don't like to shout at you all. But PLEASE understand my anger and that of my neighbours who have had to bear the brunt of malicious criminal damage. I'll keep you informed.

I sympathise with your anger.
Unfortunately the weak liberal attitudes of our ruling class has brought about this state of affairs. :mad:

This will be shocking to some sensitive souls who no doubt believe that circumstances beyond these hooligans' control has led to them doing this, but my punishment for this would be to give the car owners the baseball bats and let them smash a few of the kids' kneecaps, teeth, and whatever else they feel is justified. Make them suffer lots of pain and make an example out of them. I'm sure they'd think twice before doing anything like this again, and it might even be an effective deterrent to others.

They clearly know that it's wrong to be smshing cars up, or else they wouldn't have run off afterwards. What is so wrong with giving out some real punishment for a change? This country could be an amazing place to live in, but so much time, money and effort has to be spent on crime-related issues that it's is in danger of being dragged down so far it'll never recover.

i agree with you old bloke :thumbsup:

The NRA, in America ( obviously) have the saying " a gun carrying society is a polite society"

I don't agree with guns but i really wanted to use that quote!
And the scumbags would certainly think twice if we were all gun totting vigilanties.
Then again use of violance results ultimately in further escalations of violance.
In Belfast the IRA and Loyalist paramilitaries dealt with these youths by shooting holes in their kneecaps, very unpleasant situation for the kids involved!
Dealing with antisoial behaviour is a monster of a topic :huh:

How about, "You can get further with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone." -- Al Capone

Ya think? :hihi:

:) Sierra

I agree with you all. The stupid thing is, one of the residents actually had the opportunity to run them over in a car pursuit! He thought "no, I'll wait for the police now we've caught them red handed!" Some good they did.

I agree with you all. The stupid thing is, one of the residents actually had the opportunity to run them over in a car pursuit! He thought "no, I'll wait for the police now we've caught them red handed!" Some good they did.


i suppose they felt like putting their faith in the legal system, but once again it's let the victims down

but my punishment for this would be to give the car owners the baseball bats and let them smash a few of the kids' kneecaps, teeth, and whatever else they feel is justified.

If you would beat-up an 11 year old girl with a baseball bat, for whatever reason, you need help mate.

In every estate in Sheffield youths are up to no good and are indirectly keeping old people locked in their own homes through fear.

Everyone needs to ask thereself whether they know what their young one is

If you would beat-up an 11 year old girl with a baseball bat, for whatever reason, you need help mate

Yes. Beat the parents up instead!

Juvenile delinquency has been a problem in Sheffield for as long as I can remember. It goes with the turf, living in a socialy depressed area.

If you would beat-up an 11 year old girl with a baseball bat, for whatever reason, you need help mate.

yeah, why would you need a bat?

It's not just socially depressed areas now though, it's almost everywhere

If you would beat-up an 11 year old girl with a baseball bat, for whatever reason, you need help mate.

When the police and courts fail us, 'an eye for an eye' is the only bit of justice you can get.

THEY WERE CHASED AND CAUGHT BY THE POLICE - BUT AS NOBODY HAS BEEN ABLE TO POSITIVELY IDENTIFY THEM - GUESS WHAT? IT'S A SLAP ON THE WRIST AND A CHAT TO THE PARENTS - WHAT GOOD WILL THAT DO? THE PARENTS OBVIOUSLY CAN'T CONTROL THEM OR THEY WOULDN'T BE OUT AT THIS HOUR SMASHING UP CARS.


How can the police chat to the parents without positive ID ? :confused:

A good caning is what these kids need, but nobody has the authority any longer to impose such punishment. A good caning too for the stupid politicians who've outlawed corporal punshment. They should at least have left the judiciary this option for wantonly destructive juvenile behaviour.

If you would beat-up an 11 year old girl with a baseball bat, for whatever reason, you need help mate.

If he needs help, I'll hold her while he hits her!

No, it's better as it is now. Letting them off completely, or better still rewarding them for such behaviour is the way forward. That won't encourage them to do it again will it?

A good caning is what these kids need, but nobody has the authority any longer to impose such punishment. A good caning too for the stupid politicians who've outlawed corporal punshment. They should at least have left the judiciary this option for wantonly destructive juvenile behaviour.

I don't think it's the lack of caning that lets the kids run riot, it's the lack of discipline of any kind. Parents out to work at all hours to provide their little darlings with the playstation games of their choice, people too busy or afraid to chat to their neighbours and build any sense of community, bored kids who think it's all a laugh and think they haven't got anything real to fear.

There is a saying that every generation thinks the next is a step back. It is true we are better off than ever, but there does seem to be a real lack of respect. I wonder if we have forgotten how to bring up children somewhere along the way. Sure there is the option of slapping ASBO's on em (generally worn as a badge of pride) but without real solutions like youth clubs (no, not those kind of clubs) and workers, parents who care and have time to care for their children, and schools that have a good sense of discipline and respect there isn't going to be much improvement imho.

If he needs help, I'll hold her while he hits her!

And in the unlikely event that someone suspects one of your kids (assuming you have some) and decides to beat them up with a baseball bat, that would be ok with you ?

And in the unlikely event that someone suspects one of your kids (assuming you have some) and decides to beat them up with a baseball bat, that would be ok with you ?
Thats right lets stick up for the little dears......

And in the unlikely event that someone suspects one of your kids (assuming you have some) and decides to beat them up with a baseball bat, that would be ok with you ?

If by suspects you mean chases them down the street and catches them after watching them do it. I'll lend them the bat (not that i'm unlucky enough to have any parasites).

I live on Hopedale Road & was totally unaware of any trouble last night. I place blame squarely with parents - they should know where their kids are & who they are with & what they are doing. We always knew what our 2 boys were up to, they never roamed the streets at night. I dont condone beating kids with baseball bats - but smashing their parents cars with one might have more effect. If a "child" is old enough to commit a crime - it is old enough to be properly punished.

Thats right lets stick up for the little dears......

I'm sticking-up for common sense, running round hitting children with baseball bats is not a sensible thing to do, you'll end-up in prison and they will get compensation.

If by suspects you mean chases them down the street and catches them after watching them do it.

I mean suspect as in "not know for sure", seeing someone do something is "witnessing" I believe.

I'm sticking-up for common sense

Is smashing people's car/property up for no reason common sense?

Is smashing people's car/property up for no reason common sense?

Hey, if you think it's ok to potentially kill someone over an inanimate object then carry on.
(Please don't come back with a "what if it was your car/house/dog/tv ?" I think it's pretty obvious I wouldn't go out and beat a child, I'm not that big a man)

I had exactly the same thing happen to my car and caught the little tinkers a little further down the road... Volleyed one of ems chips and peas into his face, picked another up by his neck n squeezed until his mate told me his full name then stamped on the wheel of his shiny new mountain bike till it looked like a balloon animal.

It didn't get me my wing mirror back, but it made me feel tonnes better. I know where the scrote lives now too...

I mean suspect as in "not know for sure", seeing someone do something is "witnessing" I believe.

So in this case it wasn't apparently, it was witnessed and chased.

I still say a bat isn't really necessary, you can make a citizens arrest for criminal damage and use 'reasonable' force in doing so.

If you look I haven't actually said I would beat a child anywhere on this thread. Although some sort of punishment is obviously needed. I won't bother asking what you would do if you were in the same position because if you did see it happening I'm sure you would just leave them to it and think how unfortunate the people doing it were, the poor victims of society.

I won't bother asking what you would do if you were in the same position because if you did see it happening I'm sure you would just leave them to it and think how unfortunate the people doing it were, the poor victims of society.

No I'd have a little collection in the area to buy them a nice trip to Spain or Disney Land or somewhere.

They have probably been at least once this year already:hihi:

I agree with you all. The stupid thing is, one of the residents actually had the opportunity to run them over in a car pursuit! He thought "no, I'll wait for the police now we've caught them red handed!" Some good they did.
why did he not tell the police it was definatly him he saw smashing the cars up, then when the little scroat has grassed all his mates up and confessed it wont matter that your neighbour told a little white lie, if after police questioning he or his mates dont confess follow the little swine and film them till you get evidence that will stick.

either that or form a vigilante group and scare the crap out of them all

why did he not tell the police it was definatly him he saw smashing the cars up, then when the little scroat has grassed all his mates up and confessed it wont matter that your neighbour told a little white lie, if after police questioning he or his mates dont confess follow the little swine and film them till you get evidence that will stick.

either that or form a vigilante group and scare the crap out of them all

Depoix - we all said that...he could have pinpointed two of them and the rest would have to come clean and at least then something concrete would have been done about it..

At the end of the day, the neighbour didn't want to lie...He thought that as the police caught the group - they would deal with it...the reason no arrests were made is because we couldn't say exactly which two it was that hit the cars...Basically the whole group got away with it.

In regards to the debate about punishment...they are acting like adults and therefore should take whatever adult punishment comes to them.

The parents will then have to pick up any pieces.

In regards to the debate about punishment...they are acting like adults and therefore should take whatever adult punishment comes to them.


In what way is smashing-up cars and vandalism "acting like an adult", mind you after some of the suggestions on this thread perhaps it is.

No I'd have a little collection in the area to buy them a nice trip to Spain or Disney Land or somewhere.
I for one, believe you would...............

I for one, believe you would...............


Good grief.

Nick2 - I am sure that you understood what I meant by that comment. If you didn't, please let me know and I will explain.

And in the unlikely event that someone suspects one of your kids (assuming you have some) and decides to beat them up with a baseball bat, that would be ok with you ?

Yeah, that would be more than unlikely because my daughter would never in her wildest nightmares take a baseball bat to someone else's car. And *if* she took complete leave of her senses and did something like that, no-one else would need to punish her, the police would just have to bring her home and tell me.

I'll bet they wouldn't do it in Singapore, where they would get a good caning, and a backside which would feel as if it were on fire for a week. In this country, and Europe itself, there's no deterrent to this thing, because we've had to put up with the sanctimonious whinings of PC-weenie lily-livered liberals for the last 40 or 45 years. Gone are the days when youngsters actually had something to fear when doing wrong - like the police, teachers who could use the cane and fathers who could use the belt and the slipper, not to mention other adults who could give them a swift kick up the backsides. Because all deterrents have been taken away from them, and anyone who tries to stop them will get a whack from their baseball bats or face arrest and assault charges - these hooligans believe they're untouchable and invincible. No wonder we have a burgeoning prison population, because youngsters are all too often criminals born and bred - and we all know why.

In Belfast the IRA and Loyalist paramilitaries dealt with these youths by shooting holes in their kneecaps, very unpleasant situation for the kids involved!

and lets just say if one of those was MY car, I would indeed take pleasure in doing exactly the same to their kneecaps!!!!!

Well said Firecracker - I totally agree - I would vote for you as PM!!!

hey are acting like adults

No adult I know would act like this.

More like acting like retards:(.

Fact no. 1:
Hard working, intelligent, well mannered people are having less childern and leaving parenthood until later in life
Fact no. 2:
Lazy, stupid, ignorant, ill mannered people are producing stupid, rude, idiot kids quicker than you can say "sterilise the bast*rds!"
Fact no.3:
Results in a reversal of evolution for the first time in the history of the planet. The dumb losers are taking over thanks to a well fare state that accomodates the continued existance of not only USELESS humans, but PESTS!
Makes me feel sad
:(

This will be shocking to some sensitive souls who no doubt believe that circumstances beyond these hooligans' control has led to them doing this, but my punishment for this would be to give the car owners the baseball bats and let them smash a few of the kids' kneecaps, teeth, and whatever else they feel is justified. Make them suffer lots of pain and make an example out of them. I'm sure they'd think twice before doing anything like this again, and it might even be an effective deterrent to others.

They clearly know that it's wrong to be smshing cars up, or else they wouldn't have run off afterwards. What is so wrong with giving out some real punishment for a change? This country could be an amazing place to live in, but so much time, money and effort has to be spent on crime-related issues that it's is in danger of being dragged down so far it'll never recover.

Ever thought of a career in the probation service old bloke?:hihi:

Ever thought of a career in the probation service old bloke?:hihi:

If he was, Mary-Ann Leneghan would still be alive.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,,1735240,00.html

If he was, Mary-Ann Leneghan would still be alive.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,,1735240,00.html

Yeah...just hang em and flog em...did'nt work in the past, why should it work now?

Fact no. 1:
Hard working, intelligent, well mannered people are having less childern and leaving parenthood until later in life
Fact no. 2:
Lazy, stupid, ignorant, ill mannered people are producing stupid, rude, idiot kids quicker than you can say "sterilise the bast*rds!"
Fact no.3:
Results in a reversal of evolution for the first time in the history of the planet. The dumb losers are taking over thanks to a well fare state that accomodates the continued existance of not only USELESS humans, but PESTS!
Makes me feel sad
:(

fact 4 - you don't understand evolution.

You are right!
Evolution is nonsense anyway.
Everybody knows that creationism is the truth :thumbsup:

Fact no. 1:
Hard working, intelligent, well mannered people are having less childern and leaving parenthood until later in life
Fact no. 2:
Lazy, stupid, ignorant, ill mannered people are producing stupid, rude, idiot kids quicker than you can say "sterilise the bast*rds!"
Fact no.3:
Results in a reversal of evolution for the first time in the history of the planet. The dumb losers are taking over thanks to a well fare state that accomodates the continued existance of not only USELESS humans, but PESTS!
Makes me feel sad
:(

Whether it's evolution or not, it does seem to be true and it scares the life out of me sometimes wondering what sort of place my kid is growing up into. They are pests, some of these people, they're like rats (in fact that's probably an insult to rats who are intelligent) stuffing their faces with rubbish and breeding like wildfire. They add nothing useful to society at all.

Most of these brats wouldn't have dared do this if the parents looked after them properly.

I was scared of doing anything wrong as a kid as I didn't want to upset or disappoint my parents.

A smack to the legs when they were younger would've sorted them out !

Yeah...just hang em and flog em...did'nt work in the past, why should it work now?

It would have worked in that she would be alive if they had been under lock and key and not on probation:loopy:

If you would beat-up an 11 year old girl with a baseball bat, for whatever reason, you need help mate.

If he needs help then I would be perfectly happy to offer my services free of charge, and gladly laugh while I am carrying out the deed.

If these sort of scum can go around doing the damage using these kind of implements then I can see no reason whatsoever for society to hold back on inflicting damage on them using the same. :heyhey:

And in the unlikely event that someone suspects one of your kids (assuming you have some) and decides to beat them up with a baseball bat, that would be ok with you ?

Not suspects, but knows. As in, it is without doubt. Then they can feel free to carry on as far as I am concerned.

If my children behaved in such a manner then I would beat them with something unpleasant. As an alternative, I would throw them out to fend for themselves for dishonouring my family.

fact 4 - you don't understand evolution

Evolution is all about survival of the fittest!

When it's on your doorstep you might appreciate it more. It's easy being PC when you don't encounter it in your own back yard. artstower knows the score, should my girlfriend split up with me and have five illegitemate children so she can make more money? I might encourage her to do it, then I can retire like the rest of the scrounging so and so's. The world owes them nothing yet we pay for their over inflated existence. Is that what you like to see?

I don't know how i was being pc.
As you say, evolution is about survival of the fittest passing on desirable traits.
But that's fittest as determined by the environment, and desirable as in will be most effective in that environment.
Evolution cares nothing for intelligence, or society, if we create environmental pressures that make it most beneficial to be a selfish brain dead moron, then that's what evolution will select for.

I'll bet they wouldn't do it in Singapore, where they would get a good caning, and a backside which would feel as if it were on fire for a week.



You don’t have to go as far as Singapore, some years ago we went to the Isle of Man where they still had the birch as a deterrent, there was no vandalism or graffiti.

The same can be said about the Channel Islands but as far as I know they did not have corporal punishment, the problem is a lot deeper than knock 7 bells out of them.

I have just had a baby daughter and have another child on the way and I am fed up of young parents giving people like me and my partner a bad name, I dont blame anyone for having the stereotype that young parents are scrubbers that cant bring there children up correctly I know of people that are better off than me even though I work 50 hours and week and they do not work yet they can afford to smoke 20 a day and go out on the **** all day where as I can barely afford my Mortgage and all the bills.

The amount of young parents you see pushing the pram with a smoke on the go and swearing like Roy Chubby Brown on crack its no wander we are a nation going down the ****ter what chance do they have.

I would like to say that if my children ever behaved like the children mentioned here they would get the beating of there lives but I cant because thanks to the liberal lefties I cant even dicipline my own children although to be honest I would rather get in trouble than let them get away with it because I have pride and I dont want my children embarrasing me and running a mock.

Bring back the cane and good old fasioned manners and politeness before we do get to the stage of vigilante groups because people can only put up with so much!

I have just had a baby daughter and have another child on the way and I am fed up of young parents giving people like me and my partner a bad name, I dont blame anyone for having the stereotype that young parents are scrubbers that cant bring there children up correctly I know of people that are better off than me even though I work 50 hours and week and they do not work yet they can afford to smoke 20 a day and go out on the **** all day where as I can barely afford my Mortgage and all the bills.

The amount of young parents you see pushing the pram with a smoke on the go and swearing like Roy Chubby Brown on crack its no wander we are a nation going down the ****ter what chance do they have.

I would like to say that if my children ever behaved like the children mentioned here they would get the beating of there lives but I cant because thanks to the liberal lefties I cant even dicipline my own children although to be honest I would rather get in trouble than let them get away with it because I have pride and I dont want my children embarrasing me and running a mock.

Bring back the cane and good old fasioned manners and politeness before we do get to the stage of vigilante groups because people can only put up with so much!


You sound like a fine guy, we need more like you! I don't think it's just young parents though, many older ones are just as bad.

Thank you:blush:

Only the other day my girlfriend was out walking with my Daughter (7 month) and our Puppy when another boxer dog with no collar on cam bounding up to her she said shoe to the dog and waved her hands when a women came storming out of her house with a 2 year oldish child a smoke and a can of Special Brew and screamed "you better not have effing hit my dog you clever bitch"

It makes me so angry why cant an innocent person walk with her child and dog without being subjected to this sort of anti social abuse I actually believe in euthenasia for these kind of people.

Danny

you can still discipline your children danny, the law is supposed to prevent abuse. Although I think it has gone way too far.
It wouldn't be euthansia obviously if you apply it to someone who doesn't want to die, that would be murder. Shame though.

Murder makes it sound so drastic :)

I know you can decipline your children but I fear that when they are older they will know the law and not be scared of me shouting at them anymore, I obviously wouldnt hit them but I mean you cant even give them a clip anymore. I used to get the belt and the slipper when I was young and I turned out ok.


Danny

not a good argument for corporal punishment though. I was smacked as a kid too, but without an identical twin who wasn't to compare ourselves with, we can't say whether we'd have been better or not if we hadn't been.

Certainly with animals positive rather than negative reinforcement is more effective.

The problem is bad parenting in general, with neither positive nor negative reinforcement (or at least not for the behaviour the rest of society wants to see).

Your right too many parents just cannot be bothered to take responsability for there children and really dont give a flying what they are upto any sort of reinforcement is better than none at all.

Danny_Boy - there was no issue within the thread of targeting "young" parents...Myself and partner are "young" parents...as Cyclone says - the issue is about bad parenting and they can be any age and earn however much money - It is never about the social class it is about respect. The parents of those kids in question at the beginning of the thread may appear to be quite respectable - However, as far as I am concerned they are pathetic as they don't know or care where their kids are at this time of the evening. Whether they drive 4x4 Lexus and earn 40k+ is irrelevent. The fact is, their kids don't have respect for other people.

Another little example was last week when I took my 20month old daughter to the park (At frecheville). A group of school girls walked passed her and hit her with a bag (was accidental - granted but she didn't even watch what she was doing and they could see us approaching). I turned and said "Watch your bag" - When they were a safest enough distance away, they started shouting at me...Now...at the end of the day, property is different to babies and I am sure this group of girls didn't realise the danger they were walking into trying to provoke me like that - they had inadvertently hit my daughter and not even cared when i pointed it out. However, they were also clever enough not to come near me again...The fury I feel when it comes to protecting my daughter sees no barriers - or no laws and I would have let those girls see that should they have chosen to pursue the situation - I would have gladly told them to bring their mothers aswell and pointed it out to them who again obviously teach them no respect.

When we got onto the park - A group of youngsters were playing football and the ball came over the fence close to us, a young chap shouting to my friend "pass us the ball" - She said "what's the magic word"? He looked and smirked and rather than say "please" - wasted his time and energy to fetch the ball - How pathetic. Must have been about 13-14. We were gobsmacked!

Thank you:blush:
It makes me so angry why cant an innocent person walk with her child and dog without being subjected to this sort of anti social abuse I actually believe in euthenasia for these kind of people.

Danny

You and me both.......................

"Danny_Boy - there was no issue within the thread of targeting "young" parents"

Yes I did go off on a bit of a tangent didnt I lol but what I said still stands it must seem to everyone else that young people just have kids like its going out of fashion and then take absolutley no responsibility for them whatsoever, I dont agree with the stereotype obviousley but I also dont blame people for having this stereotype either there are to many people giving us all and bad name.

not a good argument for corporal punishment though. I was smacked as a kid too, but without an identical twin who wasn't to compare ourselves with, we can't say whether we'd have been better or not if we hadn't been.

Certainly with animals positive rather than negative reinforcement is more effective.

The problem is bad parenting in general, with neither positive nor negative reinforcement (or at least not for the behaviour the rest of society wants to see).

well done you have a very basic understanding of psychology cyclone!

but if you are anything more than a armchair psychologist you will know that generalising between animals and people isnt the smartest thing you could have done. and if you are going to say you didnt compare them then why the f*** did you put it there in the first place you muppet?

just to sound worldy and intelligent i presume?

in the end statistics have shown that in states with a harder line on antisocial behaviour people ultimately tow the line for fear of the consequences. what we have in the UK is too many people interfering and lobbying for lighter punishments on such crimes (and these people rarely live in these areas with the problems) the end result is a toothless police force and a youth culture that subsequently doesn't give a f*** because they know they will get away with it for the first three incidents (cautions).

i lived in Germany for a while and over there it is public opinion that is the biggest force on how poeple behave. so next time you know someone who is in trouble for whatever reason and you jokingly dissmiss it then you too are a part of the problem. if someone does something illegal then they should be made to feel like they are wrong not like they are a f***ing victim!

Well done yourself. You have a very basic grasp of conversing over something.
You fall down unfortunately with the basic premise of staying polite. Keep trying though, one day soon you'll be able to join the world of adult conversations.
Maybe with your indepth psychological knowledge you could tell us what it means when someone can only get a point across by swearing?

If he needs help then I would be perfectly happy to offer my services free of charge, and gladly laugh while I am carrying out the deed.

If these sort of scum can go around doing the damage using these kind of implements then I can see no reason whatsoever for society to hold back on inflicting damage on them using the same. :heyhey:

You're a great role model, remind me to beware of you and your kids.

Well done yourself. You have a very basic grasp of conversing over something.
You fall down unfortunately with the basic premise of staying polite. Keep trying though, one day soon you'll be able to join the world of adult conversations.
Maybe with your indepth psychological knowledge you could tell us what it means when someone can only get a point across by swearing?


oh dear i really brought out the best of you with that one didnt i?

if i wish to use such words then that is my chioce, as at this time they do not constitute a crime and as such i intend to use such language until that day arrives.

the fact remains that if i use such words or not, i still hold the knowledge that i do and your pitiful comments that only serve to help you maintain some sort of dignity within an intelectual context after such a verbal ass kicking are nothing more than a metaphorical rasberry!

but if it makes you happy i will attempt to refrain form this in future!

ps stick to java mate and dont try to play someone else's game!

and if the adult conversation contains you then i'm not sure of it's qulification into such a category.

We tend to base our Western beliefs about the nature of childhood on biological considerations. Young children are thoroughly dependent on adults for their survival. Infants cannot feed themselves or take care of themselves in any way. A 10-monthold child, left on its own, will surely die within days. A human may remain dependent on his or her parents for several decades.
By contrast, other animal babies are much more self-sufficient. A newborn horse, for example, is able to gallop around when it is only a few minutes old.
To us, then, laws protecting innocent and defenseless children from dangers like exploitation at work, pornography, neglect, and abuse make sense. It seems inconceivable to us that the protection of innocent children is not a fundamental value in all societies, present and past.

But as you will see, childhood is not simply a biological stage of development. Rather it is a social category that emerges from the attitudes, beliefs, and values of particular societies at particular points in time,2 subject to changing definitions and expectations. Parental attachment to children, therefore, is less a function of instinct than a function of how parents in a particular culture or historical era perceive their responsibilities toward their children.

Indeed, according to some historians, the notion of childhood as a distinct phase of life didn't develop in Western culture until the 16th and 17th centuries!

sorry forgot to reference that its form an article i read about children only being seen as children for a few hundred years as before that they were treated as adults.

so i think that if they wish to do things independently like adults do the they should accept the outcome of their actions!

the little b*******!

Please try and keep the discussion civil - don't make me come back here...

I'm not a qualified psychologist, but I do have a certain amount of knowledge in this area.

I believe that numerous studies on humans, measuring performance based on different methods of reinforcement, show that people perform better when given positive reinforcement.

That is in a particular task, lots of praise for correct answers as opposed to punishment for incorrect ones.

However, the fact remains that the children in question clearly did not have a respectful upbringing, and as pointed out so many times have no respect for other people or property. However it is likely that they also have very little respect for themselves. They have not been brought up to recognise any good in themselves and as such there is no threat in getting a criminal record, as they so often have very little ambition which may be upset by a record.

Whilst I wholeheartedly agree that the main problem is that these kids don't care what happens to them, I'm not sure excessive violent punishemnt is the way forward either.

Again, the problem has probably stemmed from poor parenting in most cases, but that is a generalisation. However, as it is us that suffer it doesn't seem adquate to just push the onus of correcting the kids behaviour back onto these parent who clearly aren't capable.

What needs to be done, as has been mentioned before, is to replace the negative stigma associated with having been caught committing an offence, to encourage society as a whole to frown upon offenders and not make excuses for them, whilst at the same time trying to instill some sense of self respect and ambition in the kids. So few kids I have come into contact with know how to respond to praise and encouragement, and only know how to rebel against punishment. Similarly few have any ambition beyond not having to go to school anymore, so few actually want to work hard to acheive a goal, be it getting the grades for college and uni, or to get an apprentiship for a particular trade etc etc etc.

Basically I think what I am getting at is there is no simple solution and this is where I feel we are falling down. We need schools, government, police, parents, communities and larger social groups all to be singing off the same hymn sheet in regards to dealing with these kids. Yes, if they are old enough to know right from wrong they are old enough to be punished for their crimes. But without changes within a society where so often having a criminal record is a status symbol among peers then no amount of punishment will bring change.

In every estate in Sheffield youths are up to no good and are indirectly keeping old people locked in their own homes through fear.

Everyone needs to ask thereself whether they know what their young one is


What nonesense. Its posts like this that get out of hand and start badmouthing and sterotyping the whole of our youth. Are you suprised that they don't respect you when you have an attitude like that towards them.

I do not condone the actions of this MINORITY unruly group but this is going down the road of vigilanties.

As a teacher in a secondary school I see the impact that this negative attitude toward society has. I also see the positive actions form many young people to improve society and care for others within it.

For example - collecting hampers for the elderly at christmas. Organising non-uniform days for cancer research. Participating in 24hr famines to help the starving.

If you wanna blame anyone blame society. I know that when I was young we knew who hated us and who didn't. And that consequently had an impact on who got 'knock a door run' of a summer evening.

We shoudl treat others as we wish to be treated ourselves. What gets right up my nose is people who think that the state of this world is that fault of everyone else but offer no positive action to remedy it.

Thank you and good night

This kind of situation makes me want to pull my hair out with frustration. The teenagers are probably too young themselves to have cars, but as we all know,... they will have their nova's and corsa's done up to the nines as soon as they've passed their driving tests, and Karma has it, some little so and so will come along with a baseball bat and all his friends and go on a smashing spree and their cars will fall victim to just a bit of 'fun' that some teens were having. It's a cruel world we live in, but God pays his debts with out money.

No there not my kids thank god, little *****

Good quote from a US tv prog last night "most children know their rights but not their responsibilities"

Good quote from a US tv prog last night "most children know their rights but not their responsibilities"


Could I substitute people in place of children, its a problem throughout society not just with children.

What nonesense. Its posts like this that get out of hand and start badmouthing and sterotyping the whole of our youth. Are you suprised that they don't respect you when you have an attitude like that towards them.

I do not condone the actions of this MINORITY unruly group but this is going down the road of vigilanties.

As a teacher in a secondary school I see the impact that this negative attitude toward society has. I also see the positive actions form many young people to improve society and care for others within it.

For example - collecting hampers for the elderly at christmas. Organising non-uniform days for cancer research. Participating in 24hr famines to help the starving.

If you wanna blame anyone blame society. I know that when I was young we knew who hated us and who didn't. And that consequently had an impact on who got 'knock a door run' of a summer evening.

We shoudl treat others as we wish to be treated ourselves. What gets right up my nose is people who think that the state of this world is that fault of everyone else but offer no positive action to remedy it.

Thank you and good night

Did i say that all kids/youths are bad? Nope :) Although you'll tend to find the good youth is bullied by the bad.

I didn't bad mouth all youths or stereotype them but many youths do not know that their behaviour can INDIRECTLY (the key word here). In my job (like yourself) i see hundreds of youths everyday although in your environment you have some direct control over them.

On a daily basis youths will mess around, being boistrous, shouting swearing etc with the majority doing so because the hormones have kicked ina nd they wnat to impress. Now to the normal person they will keep away from the group just because they feel intimidated.

Funny thing is that when you talk to the group they are generally good kids who are more or less well behaved but do not understand the consequences of their actions.

I just feel it is important that all parents knwo what their kid is doing once they leave home to go out.

As a teacher in a secondary school I see the impact that this negative attitude toward society has. I also see the positive actions form many young people to improve society and care for others within it.

For example - collecting hampers for the elderly at christmas. Organising non-uniform days for cancer research. Participating in 24hr famines to help the starving.

Me too, but it's usually only the good kids who take part in these schemes.

Me too, but it's usually only the good kids who take part in these schemes.

I also get into schools on supply every now and again...

One...the government has taken away all control that teachers have because you can't do anything! Two - the parents of these kids are generally unsupportive and three - in support of alchresearch - it is the good ones which take part in the above-described schemes.

The naughty kids can be a minority but the time and effort into trying to deal with issues far outweighs the time and support you can give to the good kids. Believe you me, I treat all kids with respect when I go into a classroom, I am not a shouting person. However, I very rarely get the respect back so it isn't a matter of "treat them nice" - often the nicer you are to them, the more they abuse that and behave worse.

Yeah...just hang em and flog em...did'nt work in the past, why should it work now? if at first you dont succeed,try, try again

and with this lot i would keep on trying until it did work

Me too, but it's usually only the good kids who take part in these schemes.


Not in my school. There are a minority of kids who don't take part and think that their 50p for non uniform day is better spent down the sweet shop that on cancer research but on the whole my kids are nice kids. Many of them have a crap homelife and no social skills thats where problems begin. I have kids who I clash with when I try to teach them. But These kids will come and have a good chat at break time and dinner time though and they are pretty nice to talk to.

I don't think society realises the pressure that schools put on kids nowadays. Pressure to get the school a good set of SATs results and GCSE results so ofsted won't come calling and the school stays in the right PANDA (category). The emphasis for these kids is acheivement not education and enjoyment which is tough. I think this is the wrong emphasis.

A human may remain dependent on his or her parents for several decades.

We have a baby on the way. Does that mean I have to live for another 70 years so I can look after it? :confused: not sure I can manage that:hihi: